Seeking Alpha

Reposted from fund manager 'Cassandra', with author's permission:

Not a year has gone by during the past fifteen that I have not contemplated what Bernie Madoff did (or didn't do) to make his money. Seventy to one-hundred basis-points-a-month. Net. Net. Net. During tempests, earthquakes, panics and crashes - even during the closure of the exchange itself, Bernie apparently minted coin like few others. Even Renaissance and Shaw tripped occasionally. Not Bernie. Yet no one knew what he did. It was one of the best kept secrets in the world. Oh yeah, sure, split-strike conversions were the official line. But every skeptical arb trader knew this couldn't be true.

I also never came across an ex-Madoff trader the way one meets ex-Shaw, ex-Moore Cap, or ex-Citadel employees. Resumes are sent in reply to postings and guys have done the rounds, even if they weren't unhappy and making a moral statement. A spouse moves...whatever. Surely there must be disgruntled Madoffians somewhere, right?. Were they ummm underground? I mean, literally? My friends at a large IB (who were soliciting business from them years ago) who'd been to their offices said they looked like the bridge from the USS Enterprise (the Starship - The Next Generation version). Entry to the IM sub was strictly verboten. Uh huh. He said it was a paperless office. No paper trails. Hmmmm. Violators were fired. Weird. No one transgressed.

Whatever he did, he came a long way from arbing the odd-lots that were the reputed foundation of his activities. I knew his shop from London where he was one of the few to make markets in US stocks out of hours, and if my clients for whatever (mostly ill-advised) reason needed to trade instantly, Bernie would make a price. Not necessarily a good price, but a price. But one does so at their peril since the folk with material non-public information are more predisposed to want to trade outside hours, so the pick-off risk was huge. But he never complained.

Next thing I know, he's at the center of an electronic trading revolution - an electronic market-maker facilitator at the center of the trading universe. Yet even Timber Hill has bad hair days. Volkswagen ord-pref days. Not Bernie. Is he arbing the exchange fee structure? Is he algorithmically scalping cause he's seeing the order flow before it gets to the exchange? Maybe. Profitably? Who knows? But I didn't have a problem with an old Jewish guy making markets. This is what we DO. But there are these investment funds - Fairfield Sentry and Kingate, and these are the issue. They are Madoff-only feeders reputed to be $7bn each. Are they funding his market-making? Why does he need so much capital? What the f*ck f*ck f*cking f*ck could he be doing in the equity markets with that much capital and still keep it a secret AND deliver returns? They say they are doing these split strike conversions but I can't see how the numbers work. Nor can anyone else. The Wall Street Journal raises the red flags in an article, but it's dismissed as hyperbole disseminated by jealous competitors. But the nagging thing is: there are lots of smart guys out there. More than sixty of them near Stonybrook with Simons focused on cracking the nut faster, better quicker, and this activity and result, I can understand. But there is no sign of such exactitude or intellectual firepower at Madoff. Just 70 to 100 bps per month, secretiveness, and dissonance.

In 2000, I advised a family-office on their alternative investments and constructed a portfolio on their behalf. I had free rein. Included in their legacy portfolio was a sizable Madoff position. As a fiduciary - and a conservative one - coming on the heels of LTCM which also lacked transparency and which made it hard for me to raise capital - I dug, asked every well-connected equity-finance, prime-broker, electronic trader and HF allocator type I knew and it still didn't add up. The best and brightest still had no more insight than I, though the skeptical shared my suspicions. So, I strongly suggested they "dump it". "One isn't being compensated sufficiently for not knowing, and something just isn't right here. Yeah maybe it's OK, but I think it's not". But they liked "it" and they liked "him". "He's always paid", they said. "We've been with him a long time". Old school they were. Trusting. What the f*ck did I know anyway?

Well, it seemed to me that the "split-strike conversions" were profit shifting bookkeeping tools. Money invested in the feeders did obtain split-strike conversion positions on their books that had an implied "yield" equal to their return but it seemed these were pre-arranged combinations that shifted return back to the investment vehicles and were "phantom" positions vs. Madoff securities. In the interim, Madoff presumably has use of the entire pool of capital, to do what he pleased, plus whatever that pool could command in terms of leverage from bank lines and financing sources. It could be in anything and everything. He could be doing mutual fund timing, or mutual fund market impact trades. Credit arbitrage. Funding coup d'etats in Africa. Or buying GSCI commodity swaps. More plausibly, he could be doing option and index-option market impact trades since he was ostensibly at the center of market flow, or he could be at the center of a loan-sharking network across America earning 50%pa, and here he was passing a paltry 9% back to investors. Either he was crooked beyond belief or he was an evil contrapreneurial genius. Who would have have thought he was both??!!

Some crimes are too perfect. Some facades too well-painted to be original or convincing. A good hustler knows he must lose sometimes in order to win. THAT is the reflection of reality that makes it believable, and gives confidence to the punter who will shortly be taken out. THAT was what was wrong with Bernie Madoff's Ponzi. The people who were taken - like the Family Office and many other investors who in time will go public on their fleecing - wanted badly to believe they were onto something that was so good that they ignored the most obvious signs of bogusness. It just didn't make sense. It just didn't add up. Even Jim Simons earns it. There is no free lunch.

There is something fitting and just in the timing of this. It is emblematic of America since Reagan and the Great Leveraging. Something for nothing. Thank you, Mr Laffer. But as a philosophy and modus operandi it is, quite literally, bankrupt and without merit. And Laffer has since been proven to be full of sh*t. Now, Americans will have to confront this, the premise that greed is good and self-guiding and somehow omnisciently beneficial, for it has had repercussions down to the core of our society and values. "Sorry everyone....what you've been pursuing has all been a lie, a big Ponzi, a rat-hole to nowhere....". Re-boot.

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This article has 44 comments:

  •  
    This will kill any chance of drawing back retail investors to Wall Street. Say goodbye to any chance the Dow hits 10000 in my lifetime again
    2008 Dec 12 09:07 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    It was a pretty well written articl until the author decided that it was "blame it on Reagan" time. If you can find any instance where Reagan advocated "something for nothing" let me know and I's send you a bottle of whiskey. Madoff has been just another crook fleecing the unsuspecting wealthy who did not know how to make money on their own.
    2008 Dec 12 09:43 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    "....But I didn't have a problem with an old jewish guy making markets. This is what we DO."

    I can assure you that if Madoff was a Christian his religion would not have been brought up.
    2008 Dec 12 10:24 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Madoff is only one of many thousand ignorant, overconfident or outright crooked brokers, money "managers", analysts and financial advisors that collectively duped thousands of trusting retail investors.

    There's no way of making an honest quick buck without hurting someone down the line. If this market crash spells the end of retail investing for a long time, so be it. Hopefully, better regulation and legistated financial responsibility with some clawback provisions will end all the Ponzi schemes.
    2008 Dec 12 10:44 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    While Reagan didn't start out advocating bubble economics, his philosophy of anti-regulation and free markets without oversight were begun and slowly took effect over the next twenty five years. Laffer, who had been consider a joke before the far right annointed him as the savior of the wealthy, became the spokesman for economic philosphy. Supply side economics worked for a while, until the demand side was decimated. Now we have conditions somewhat like we had before the 30's depression -- lots of supply (from all over the world) but not enough people with adequate credit or cash to buy the stuff.

    On Dec 12 09:43 AM Augustus wrote:

    > It was a pretty well written articl until the author decided that
    > it was "blame it on Reagan" time. If you can find any instance where
    > Reagan advocated "something for nothing" let me know and I's send
    > you a bottle of whiskey. Madoff has been just another crook fleecing
    > the unsuspecting wealthy who did not know how to make money on their
    > own.
    2008 Dec 12 11:08 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    As a victim of a very similar scheme, the Maricopa investment partnerships of Naples, FL that collapsed of its own weight in March 2000, I can tell you what you will likely find in the Madoff case:

    . Madoff was using a "secret" trading method.
    . He did virtually all of the "trading" himself.
    . Virtually all of the people involved in the "trading" operation will be family members.
    . The "advisors" funneling him money did not investigate and profited very nicely from their "management".
    . Madoff constructed his own client reports.
    . There were no brokerage statements from an independent firm.
    . Clients were actually fearful of withdrawing money from him because they might lose their access to the returns.
    . Monthly returns were consistently boring. Never or very infrequently showing even a small loss.
    . No one (attorneys, accountants, etc) questioned his returns, as he was paying their fees.
    . He had an outstanding reputation and held himself out to the community as a philanthropist.

    People who do not know how to manage their own money are always suckers for these guys. Now they will turn on him like avenging angels. They will find that there is no money to recover and their legal and accounting fees are going to go through the roof.

    A receiver will be appointed. He will spend years and soak up millions in his investigation. Any investors who withdrew money will be forced to pay it back as they will be named as "profiteers". Charities who received distributions will have to pay it back. "Advisors" who earned fees on the false profits will be sued by their clients to return their fees.

    It will go on and on and on for many years. The Maricopa fraud was disclosed in March 2000. The perpetrator (David Mobley) has been in federal prison since 2001. I received a final distribution from the receiver this past October. Fortunately, we recovered 45% of our capital, since there were assets to find and the investors who had gotten earlier distributions were forced to return them. Many of them had to declare bankruptcy.

    As long as there is greed, people are easily deceived.


    2008 Dec 12 11:10 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    The only difference between Madoff and GS, MS, LEH, C is.... TARP. Oh, right, LEH didn't get none.

    But none of them went to jail.
    2008 Dec 12 11:23 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    If Madoff was a Christian he probably wouldn't have been successful (at least for a while) on Wall Street.


    On Dec 12 10:24 AM SteveTN wrote:

    > "....But I didn't have a problem with an old jewish guy making markets.
    > This is what we DO."
    >
    > I can assure you that if Madoff was a Christian his religion would
    > not have been brought up.
    2008 Dec 12 11:52 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    I don't think Madoff's religion is relevant to either his choice of career or his criminal activity -- and it should not reflect on others of his religion. The Jewish stereotype is repugnant, even if authored by a fellow Jew. It is repugnant to all, not just to other Jews.

    The author goes off the rails at the end when he denigrates Laffer. Laffer's theory has not been disproved, but it is often distorted into a straw man and that straw man theory is disproved.

    Laffer did not say that cutting tax rates would increase tax revenue above what would have been collected at a higher tax rate. Rather, he suggested that the tax revenue would not decrease proportionally to the decrease in rates. That this is true is demonstrable. Conversely, raising tax rates does not increase tax revenues in proportion to the rate increase.

    The difference, of course, is attributable to the incentive to work more productively when one's work effort is taxed less.

    The cheap shots in this article contribute to its overall snarky tone, one presumably meant to enhance the perception of the author's wisdom or prescience. Instead, they are a distraction from an otherwise interesting and evocative analysis.
    2008 Dec 12 03:03 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Minneapolis, local boy, Tom Petters’, is an avowed Christian and his Ponzi scheme is credited with taking only three billion. Seems to me that Madoff is more than sixteen times as bad. The multiple may or may not be related to their belief systems.
    2008 Dec 12 04:31 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    the dumber the farmer , the bigger the potato
    2008 Dec 12 05:18 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    What, another Ivar Kreuger or Sam Insull? Damn Ronnie and Artie for encouraging if not inventing irresponsible leverage and harboring Charlie Ponzi wannabe's. It's all those supply siders that are to blame for these monstrosities never before encountered in the annals of humanity. Pandora was a Florence Nightingale compared to these folks.
    2008 Dec 12 07:13 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    He's always paid. Yeah, so did GM bonds. Surprise! Let's review class. First there were the institutional investors who were shocked, SHOCKED, that the MBS that were insured triple AAA lost value. Then there were the market geniuses who watched auction rate security market freeze up in front of their faces. I mean, seriously, I would love to see some of the flabbergasted expressions on some of these investors faces because the underlying premise of the Madoff funds is that market losses are for the little people. Remember Leona Helmsley when she said taxes are paid by the little people? I'm sure someone will swoop in and make all the flustered high net worth campaign contributing investors whole again through a cash infusion. Welcome to the land of the rising sun - where investors have faith in nothing, banks hide loans and a huge infrastructure stimulus plan fuels an explosion of graft, waste and inefficiency that would make Boss Tweed blush. But the important story is how the ultra wealthy took a haircut. Lets slaughter everyone! This is America! We only take money from lower income Americans with retail brokers, not chummy golf course menschs!
    2008 Dec 12 09:39 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Can't understand all this fuss about a Ponzi scheme. Government bond markets have been run like this for years.
    2008 Dec 13 06:42 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Bernie " Mad-off " with the money....real shame..!!
    2008 Dec 13 09:56 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    the greed of the wealthy(lazy) who gave him the money are just as much to blame. how much do you need?
    2008 Dec 13 12:32 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    If you want to have a real laugh, please read the exact text copied from Fairfield Greenwich´s website about their excellent due diligence process..... Now you know how to loose USD 7.5 bln in Madoff´s ponzi scheme...... And these guys charge management fees ?????



    FGG's Due Diligence Process


    FGG's due diligence process is deeper and broader than a typical Fund of Funds, resembling that of an asset management company acquiring another asset manager, rather than a passive investor entering a disposable investment.

    A number of areas of inquiry are examined by a team of FGG professionals who specialize in evaluating respective areas of risk. Typically, a manager has been investigated and monitored for six to 12 months before that firm can be accepted onto the FGG platform. Long negotiating periods enable FGG to be more confident of its decisions before proceeding with a manager. Areas of examination are centered around the following:

    1. Portfolio Evaluation, Investment Performance, and Financial Risks:

    A core area for further analysis is to attempt to dissect and further understand investment performance, how a manager generates alpha, and what risks are taken in doing so. As portfolio management and risk management incorporate elements of both art and science, FGG applies both qualitative and quantitative measures. FGG:

    Examines independent prime broker trading records
    Conducts detailed interviews to better understand the manager's methodology for forming a market view, and for selecting and exiting core positions
    Analyses trading records
    Conducts a number of qualitative and quantitative tests to determine adherence to risk limits over time
    Confirms portfolio loss risk controls, diversification and other risk-related control policies, as well as any experience regarding unexpected or extreme market events
    Reviews the risk and return factors inherent in the strategy
    Evaluates capacity issues, which may affect alpha, as well as expected opportunities going forward within each candidate's strategy
    Analyses the various drivers underlying a particular portfolio's risk
    Evaluates credit risk and market risk both at the instrument and portfolio level
    Assesses the extent to which leverage is used by a manager, as well as how it is used, the funding sources, and the impact on the risk profile of the fund
    Investigate whether or not private or special registration securities are held, and determine how the daily trading volume and inventory held compares to the float and/or daily trading volume for a given security
    FGG also conducts many quantitative reviews of investment performance in light of:

    Fees and fee structure
    Historical draw-downs
    Return volatility
    Commissions earned
    Performance return in calm versus volatile markets
    Current/historical correlation of the fund under consideration with standard industry benchmarks, peer groups, and other FGG or competitor funds used as benchmarks
    FGG attempts to understand the return attribution for individual securities in the portfolio, and conducts a full suite of VaR analyses and stress tests to model the loss distribution function under extreme market scenarios. Leverage, concentration limits, and long/short exposures are examined over time to assess whether they have remained within operating guidelines.

    Style fidelity is another key area of inquiry; the manager's trading pattern over time and through various market environments, FGG determines whether the manager is prone to trade outside of their area of expertise.

    2. Personal Background Investigation:

    FGG examines the abilities and personalities of the individuals involved in managing the fund through extensive interviews, as well as background investigations.
    FGG verifies:
    Education
    Personal credit standing
    Litigation and regulatory background
    Track record
    Other indicators

    FGG explores the manager's experience and qualifications relative to the strategy being managed. Prior professional associations of a manager's key personnel can be crucial in understanding a person's experience and character and how they run their investment management business.

    3. Structural and Operational Risk:

    "Operational risk" refers to the risk of loss resulting from inadequate or failed internal processes, human resources, or systems, or from external events. Operational failures, including misrepresentation of valuations and outright fraud, constitute the vast majority of instances where massive investor losses occur. Other operational risks include staff processing errors, technology failure, and poor data.

    Pricing models, as well as the adequacy, independence, and transparency of valuation procedures, contingency plans, and other trading and settlement procedures are all matters for close scrutiny by FGG professionals.

    FGG seeks a sound understanding of whether a hedge fund possesses key controls in the areas of portfolio management, conflicts of interest, segregation of duties, and compliance. FGG carefully assesses the controls and procedures that managers have in place and seek to determine actual compliance with those procedures, often suggesting modifications, separations of responsibilities, and remedial staff additions.

    4. Legal, Compliance, and Regulatory Risk:

    FGG's legal, compliance, and accounting teams specialize in investment management regulation, securities compliance, corporate operations, and tax issues. Hedge fund managers function within an ever more complex legal and regulatory landscape, and the role of this part of the diligence exam is to determine the seriousness of any deficiencies in this area which may cause risk of sanction, loss, or reputational embarrassment.

    Both in-house and retained legal professionals interview the management and staff of the manager, research regulatory filings, and review corporate organizational documents, as well as fund memoranda and related material contracts.

    2008 Dec 13 01:02 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    I think Bill Buckley said it first:

    The problem with communism is communism. The problem with capitalism is capitalists.
    2008 Dec 13 01:44 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    It is very funny to think that no one thinks AIG using government funds to pay off Goldman and JP Morgan when they are still in debt is not a ponzi scheme. It is. They are using cuurently raised funds to pay off old liability even though they are essentially bankrupt and remain so. Also like Madoff they have hidden their losses and lied to investors and forged their earnings and balance sheet and do so up to today because if financial institutions are forced to display their off book derivatives contracts they will show they wrote more contracts than the assets of the entire earth. Funny how that is. $50 trillion in detivatives and $20 trillion in debts all sitting around in US banks.

    It makes Bernie's criminal enterprise look like a joke. He should know. He was in the stock market being NASDAQ's chairman long enough to see what the punters and financial institutions were up to. It isn't pretty as we are finding out. FYI, how can the overseas semi stocks shoew a 80% drop off and existing customers still say business is slow but will recover. Hello. Your inventory has been cut to zero and you aren't ordering new stuff to sell. What are you doing telling your stock holders everything is even close to ok.

    Wake up. The US disclosure of assets is all a very big deception. Every Euopean and Asian country has better disclosure than the US these days. And I can tell you, their disclosures are not very good.

    Good luck to all the bulls. I hope the new administration goes alonmg with the monkey sees no wevil and hears no evil like the last 8 years has yielded. For America's sake, I hope not even if it tanks the market.

    2008 Dec 13 02:02 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    People have been shaking their heads because real returns on Treasuries have gone to zero. They call it a bubble and wonder why anybody would ever purchase such an investment. But here is a sorry group of billionaires who probably wished they had their money in Treasuries this past while.
    2008 Dec 13 02:20 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    its all a ponzi scheme.as the govt. dictates-some legal,some illegal.you want to drink yourself to death-legal.youwant to smoke maryjane-illegal.its all just a sad joke.
    2008 Dec 13 02:22 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Between the money he made making markets and should have left, plus the returns he did pay out- is this as bad as it's being made to be?

    If someone gave him money 15 years ago and got 9% returns, is that so bad? Better than someone who gave him money last year for sure.

    It will be interesting to see the final accounting in all this. Our system needs to be set up to maximize recovery in these kinds of situations- anything this guy owns should be all in.

    2008 Dec 13 02:51 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Another good reason to continually learn as much as possible about investing, open a discount brokerage account and handle your own money.
    Nobody, I mean NOBODY, cares about your money more than you. Get educated and handle it yourself. It is not nearly as hard as the "so-called" financial experts say.
    2008 Dec 13 03:27 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Forget Hedge Funds. Do not send any of them your money. Stick with well grounded Mutual Funds like Fidelity or 20th Century or others. Back to basics. Do not be a fool and send your millions to a one man shop. Go with firms like Fidelity who cannot steal your money!!!! The track records of the many mutual fund companies are better than that of Hedge Funds anyway. Hell, buy your kids Coca Cola, JNJ, PG, and take the stock certificates and put them in your safe deposit box if you want. Do not mess around with these Hedge Funds and 1 man shops on the street! And stop following all the advise of the ETF crowd. If you have $10 million put 500k in 20 well run, good old fashioned mutual funds! Then enjoy life and look at your returns in 10 or 20 years...
    2008 Dec 13 05:44 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    All of those so called smart investors from NY and Florida got what they deserved. I feel no pain for them. Greed, corruption and arrogance all travel together.

    The condition set up by Bush and the Republicans in Congress over the last years have brought us to this. They who preached the wonders of Capitalism without regulations and oversight have brought us to this state of affairs.
    2008 Dec 13 06:25 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    EttU, while I agree I feel less sympathetic to Madoff's victims, its putting the right people at the right place that makes the system work, be it capitalism or whatever. i actually feel relieved that the republicans blocked the auto bailout after they chickened out on the financial bailout. democrats are politicians too.
    2008 Dec 14 01:40 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    notsosmart, while i feel some of your negativity and am holding shorts, i view it as betting for or against the REAL market makers, the politicians. hopefully people will start seeing the importance of their votes and look at the worthiness of the politicians more seriously.
    2008 Dec 14 01:43 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    WHERE THE H-E-DOUBLE-HOCKEY-STIC... IS THE SEC WITH RESPECT TO THE SMALL INVESTOR?
    Does it work only for hedgefunds?
    Can we oust Cox now and let him get on with his pending hedgefund position?
    Give him a 'great job, Brownie' sendoff and ship him to the gulag.

    2008 Dec 14 07:46 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Many cons work based on greed.

    "You can't cheat an honest man" W.C. Fields

    On Dec 13 12:32 PM notsosmart wrote:

    > the greed of the wealthy(lazy) who gave him the money are just as
    > much to blame. how much do you need?
    2008 Dec 14 08:20 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    This is an exceptionally well written article. Congratulations.
    2008 Dec 14 08:52 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    There is a lesson here. Diversify your wealth among ten to twenty fiduciaries, period, not necessarily among different asset classes. For the past twelve months international bond funds and money market accounts have been the best way to preserve wealth -- and and their holdings are transparent , just go to their websites on the internet.
    2008 Dec 14 09:34 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Are American people really that stupid buying so much BS from the media and US political and economic elite?
    The answer is YES!

    Let us look at Bernie Madoff affair as it was told to us:
    - Madoff alone, without anybody help and assistance, was running for 25 years plus a multi-billion dollar hedge fund that
    - Had ~$50B (give or take a few) in assets
    - Had at least 25 large clients
    - Had to
    -- Find new clients, promote and market his fund
    -- Support financial, investment and administration and other array of business operations
    -- Issue to its clients and IRS a mountain of financial statements and reports
    -- Two of his sons as his Executive VPs
    - And on and on and on and on
    And
    - NOBODY KNEW NOTHING
    - His own family turned him to FBI finding that he was a crook.

    What a story? It is just an incredible miracle!!!!! But is it?

    People who believe in this story deserve their miserable destiny. It is that simple! It tells volumes about American people and the society as a whole.

    PS
    One more "fair story". About Detroit. Nobody in the entire world knew until Nov. 2008 that Detroit automakers are losing tons of money and running out of cash before the year-end.

    The funny story is that NOBODY at the Wall-Street was arrested yet for ruining the US and world economy and robbing American people on a tune of tens of trillions dollars...WOW!
    2008 Dec 14 09:37 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    The author had to bring the jewish thing into it! Hitler I believe wanted to extinguish all jews right? Was this his reasoning. The fleecing of America?
    2008 Dec 14 10:16 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    What's your age..?? ;-)


    On Dec 12 09:07 AM Herbert Hoover wrote:

    > This will kill any chance of drawing back retail investors to Wall
    > Street. Say goodbye to any chance the Dow hits 10000 in my lifetime
    > again
    2008 Dec 14 10:41 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    This should be a major loss for investors. The market probably could not make head or tail of it on Friday, also the GM bailout distraction. This is so much much bigger than SocGen, Nuveen and the rest. Investors and hedge funds likely to come to grip with the losses and react on Monday.
    The system is completely broken – regulators, auditors, investment banks – all of them are incompetent and corrupt. I will not be surprised there would (should) be major run on hedge funds as a result of this scandal. Complete confidence is shaken in the system. With all the uncertainty and losses, now a major fraud, as an investor I would just flee this market.

    Market is banking on Obama-Pelosi stimuluses, GM bailouts and is going up. None of these things are going to work – US is bankrupt – too much debt, corrupt politicians; consumer confidence is shaken, next month’s job losses could approach a million.

    Get out stay out of this market, Wall Street is just a Den of Thieves, a giant Ponzi scheme.
    2008 Dec 14 10:59 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Cassandra:

    "What the f*ck f*ck f*cking f*ck could he be doing"

    Vocabulary a bit limited, don't you think? Maybe it needs just one more "f*ck" to really make your point.
    2008 Dec 14 11:31 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    A perfect piece, perfectly written.
    2008 Dec 14 02:21 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Everyone misses the demand side point, it's not just that credit is lacking, need is lacking. As was recently said here, we have pulled forward housing, cars, etc, etc. Without need all the credit in the world will go unused! It will straighten out, and with the lack of need goes a minimal "real" hardship with what may be a severe recession. Maybe an attitude adjustment will be part of the deal, though.


    On Dec 12 11:08 AM hoover wrote:

    > While Reagan didn't start out advocating bubble economics, his philosophy
    > of anti-regulation and free markets without oversight were begun
    > and slowly took effect over the next twenty five years. Laffer,
    > who had been consider a joke before the far right annointed him as
    > the savior of the wealthy, became the spokesman for economic philosphy.
    > Supply side economics worked for a while, until the demand side was
    > decimated. Now we have conditions somewhat like we had before the
    > 30's depression -- lots of supply (from all over the world) but not
    > enough people with adequate credit or cash to buy the stuff.
    >
    > On Dec 12 09:43 AM Augustus wrote:
    2008 Dec 14 02:25 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    A lot has been said about bonds working like ponzi schemes, but i think you guys are missing a point. When i buy a bond i know how it works and what it is. If i invested in Madoff's funds I wouldn't know. He would have told me some BS about how he makes a clever arbitrage, how money is made every month, reliably, out of nothing and how it is so secret that i have to give him all my money and not tell anybody. THAT's a real scam.
    When govmnt and corporations do when they issue bonds is fairly well documented and understood, so let's not try to equate this to what Madoff was doing because this gives him credibility that he doesn't deserve. This saying "everything is crooked" somehow makes what he did less of a crime. I hope the jury isn't going to buy that crap.
    2008 Dec 14 02:46 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    With 50 Billion Dollars maybe lost what I find most disturbing is that someone who read this article, sole concern expressed, was the numer of times the 'F' word is used.
    2008 Dec 14 03:19 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    What I read that was really funny was that even after they had arrested the man, there was not a single complaint that was filed against him !

    Rather than using the derivatives and all that complicated stuff, he had been using a simple ponzi scheme, taking from one guy and giving it to the next guy... LOL.
    2008 Dec 14 11:05 PM | Link | Reply
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    While there were several SEC CHairmen over the past 25 years, the bigger the fund became and the longer it extended its streak of incredibly consistent returns the more it should have attracted the attention of the SEC. Having extended its success streak to 25 years and purported assets having reached $50 billion, it certainly should have attracted the attention of the current empty suit SEC Chairman, who may even be acquainted with some of the investors in the fund-- as they traveled in similar circles.

    This guy shoiuld resign today before his failure to do his job causes more investor losses. Paul Voclker has been mentioned as a possible candidate for several high level positions. How about Vo;lcker for SEC CHairman, it would certainly help to restore the agency's serverely damaged reputation.
    2008 Dec 15 09:35 AM | Link | Reply
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    does anyone know how Madoff lost 50 billion when he only had 17 bill under management? Did he owe a bunch of banks/investment banks a lot of money?
    2008 Dec 15 04:49 PM | Link | Reply
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    The people who did business with Madoff, after meeting him at a Country Club or society event, deserve what they received. Don't get me wrong, Madoff and any others involved with him, should be penalized to the highest extent. A public lynching! This also includes all SEC management personnel who did not do their jobs in conducting review and oversight. Madoff had friend and relatives inside the SEC. He was former head of NASDAQ. I would not be at all surprised if Madoff moved his money offshore. There is a lot of money sitting in off shore bank accounts in order to avoid paying taxes. We need to do one of two things here, begin taxing off shore money or reduce taxes here so the money does not go off shore. The wealthy who trusted Madoff and other people to manage their accounts for them should have taken the time to learn about investing so they could recognize what Madoff and those like him do. I leaned along time ago to never trust a broker with your money....you lose if you do 100% of the time.
    Jan 01 12:34 PM | Link | Reply