Intuit Inc. (NASDAQ:INTU)
January 17, 2013 11:00 am ET
Brad D. Smith - Chief Executive Officer, President, Director and Member of Executive Committee
Laura A. Fennell - Senior Vice President, General Counsel and Corporate Secretary
Brad D. Smith
Good morning, everyone. I want to welcome you to Intuit's Annual Shareholder Meeting. For those of you I have not had the pleasure of meeting in prior years, my name is Brad Smith, and I serve as the company's President and Chief Executive Officer. And I want to welcome you to Intuit's campuses this morning. For those who are here physically and for those that are dialing in, I want to welcome you to our broadcast.
In terms of today's agenda, we're going to spend a few minutes going to the formal portion of the meeting. From there, I'll take a little bit of time taking you through the company's performance and talking about the opportunity we see ahead. And then, of course, we're going to open it up for you to have a dialogue, talk about any questions that may be on your mind.
And before we get started, I'd like to make a few introductions, and I'll start with Intuit's Board of Directors. Now these are a group of individuals that, quite frankly, their common sense, their wisdom, their experience, brings in valuable insights to me on a daily basis and helps guide this company and has continued to guide this company over multiple years. So I will tell you that I have a very privileged position to be able to work with this board as is our entire management team. And I was trying to look around and see who we have in the room because I know they're all on their way here. But I will begin by acknowledging our Co-Founder and Chairman of the Executive Committee, Scott Cook, who's in the back of the room, works with us on a daily basis. We also have our independent directors here. We have Chris Brody, who's walking up the aisle as we speak. I'm looking at Diane Greene, who's sitting right here. We have Dennis Powell. We are also looking for Ed Kangas, who's back in the back. Jeff Weiner will be here. He is our most recent addition. Oh, Jeff Weiner, there we go. Snuck in, buddy, under the cloud of darkness, I apologize. And Suzanne Nora Johnson is sitting right here. And then, we will also have our Chairman of the Board, Bill Campbell, who needs no introduction, and will certainly be joining us in a few minutes as well. So I want to -- hope you get the opportunity to meet some of these individuals.
In addition to our board, we also have our very trusted outside counsel, Gordy Davidson from Fenwick & West. We have members of our outside auditing firm, I'm looking to see where they are. It is Sam Lazarakis and we got Chris Anger from Ernst & Young, and then we have Christopher Hummel (sic) [Chris Hummel], who's from Broadridge and will be serving as our Inspector of Elections today. So quite a few faces here. Hopefully, have the opportunity for you to meet some of them after we finish with the meeting.
And with that, I'm going to bring up Laura Fennell. Laura is our General Counsel, Corporate Secretary, to conduct the formal portion of the meeting. All right.
Laura A. Fennell
Thanks, Brad. So I have an affidavit from Broadridge, certifying the Notice of the Stockholder Meeting was properly mailed on November 27, 2012, to all stockholders of record. Our stockholders have access to the Proxy Statement and Annual Report on the website as required by SEC rules. I also have a list of registered stockholders entitled to vote at this meeting. This Inspector of Election has executed his oath, which will be filed with the minutes of this meeting. Broadridge has counted the votes cast on each proposal, and Mr. Hummel has informed me that we have a quorum.
The polls are now open, so if you've already turned in your proxies, you shouldn't vote again, unless you want to revoke your proxy or change your vote. So if you'd like a ballot, raise your hand. Okay.
So at this meeting stockholders will vote on the 4 proposals described in the proxy statement. Following the votes, Mr. Hummel will tally the ballots and proxies that determine which proposals have been approved, and I'll announce the preliminary results.
So proposal #1, as you know, the election of 9 Directors; Proposal 2 is the ratification of Ernst & Young as Intuit's independent registered public accounting firm for fiscal year 2012 -- 2013, excuse me; Proposal #3 is the advisory vote on executive compensation; and proposal 4 is the approval of certain material terms of our Senior Executive Incentive Plan. So management recommends that you vote for all 9 directors in proposals 2, 3 and 4. And just so you know, 2, 3 -- 2 and 4 must be approved by majority of the shares voted. Please mark your ballots and then we'll collect them.
So the polls are now officially closed. The final vote totals will be published in the current report on Form 8-K that we expect to file within 4 business days. Mr. Hummel informs me of the following preliminary results: Intuit stockholders have elected the 9 nominees named in our proxy statement to the Board of Directors; ratified the selection of Ernst & Young; have advised their approval of the company's executive compensation; and approved certain material terms of our Senior Executive Incentive Plan.
So that concludes our formal business today and the formal portion of the meeting is now adjourned. In just a moment, I'll turn it back to Brad. But before I do, I just want to remind you that Brad's remarks may contain forward-looking statements and there are number of risks that may cause actual results to differ materially from our expectations. For more information about those risks, please see the webcast version of this presentation and our SEC filings, which can be found on our Investor Relations page at intuit.com.
So thanks very much, and I'll return it to Brad.
Brad D. Smith
Thank you, Laura. Okay, with that behind us, at this point, what I'd like to do is move to the second of our agenda items, which is provide an update on the state of the company's performance. And to do that, I'll preview 3 topics that I'm going to try to cover over the next half an hour or so. First, I want to share just a little bit of time looking backwards, look at our performance in fiscal year '12. From there, I'll shift the focus to the future. We'll talk about the near-term economic environment we're seeing with our customers, but we'll also talk about longer term trends that we think have implications for the next 5 to 10 years. And then I'll conclude by reviewing our company's strategy, to compete in this marketplace and to accelerate our performance.
So let me begin with the first of these topics, sharing my reflections on fiscal year '12. I realize this is somewhat old news at this point because our fiscal year ended on July 31. But if we look back at our financial performance, despite a tepid macroeconomic environment, we continue to deliver double-digit top line and bottom line performance. We grow our revenue 10%, we expanded our operating margins, we grew our earnings 16% year-over-year.
When you take this performance, however, and stack it up against the financial principles that we use to run the company, I would tell you that we had a solid year. We did not have our best year. While we did grow our revenue double digits, it was not at the levels that we anticipated going into the year. We didn't bring as many customers into the franchises we had hoped. I'll talk more about that in a minute.
And while we did expand our operating margins, every year, we commit to expanding 50 to 100 basis points each year. We were on the lower end of that range. As we saw revenue softness in the back half of the year, we pulled some expense levers that wouldn't sacrifice the long-term, but it wasn't enough to offset the kind of operating leverage we wanted to get. So by and large, I will tell you, we exited the year constructively dissatisfied, but we're also highly motivated to take our game to the next level. And to understand how we're going to do that, I'm going to click underneath the financials and share with you areas where we're making real progress and areas where we're going to have to double down.
Now on the positive side, I have the privilege of serving in a company that, for multiple decades, has committed itself to creating an environment where the most talented employees want to work. Just this morning, Fortune Magazine came out again with its Top 100 Best Places to Work. Intuit was listed for the 12th year in a row on this list. And for the second year in a row, we broke #20 -- we broke the top 25 at #22. So that is a very exciting thing to be a part of. It helps us attract talent and it helps show that we have an environment that keeps good talent.
Now one of the ways we do that is we try to take in 8,000 person company and break it down into an entrepreneurial startup. In fact, Forbes wrote an article on us about 3 months ago called the 30-year-old startup. We take these 8,000 people and break them down into teams no bigger than 2 pieces can feed. They run rapid experiments as if they're in a startup environment. They prove their idea. If it works, we invest in it and we take it to market. If it doesn't work, they shut it down and we move onto the next idea, but it gives everybody a chance to participate. And they're taking this innovation and they're applying it to the next generation of technology, which, today, is mobile, tablets and phones.
Just a few years ago, we were at a standing start. We now have over 50 applications of mobile devices. And last year, we got an average of 3 out of 5 stars on the App stores for the user rating. This year, it's 4.5 out of 5 stars. So we're really starting to take the step towards the next chapter. But it's not just the new stuff. We realize we have a lot of customers using our existing products. So we're taking the time to refresh TurboTax. This year, it's a much more personalized experience for a subset of our customers who are very simple filers. We've rewritten the technology on our Online Banking platforms so banks can make it more configurable for their environment. And we're shutting down data centers that are no longer efficient. So we're taking the time to keep the existing stuff fresh as well. So there's a lot to feel good about as we came out of fiscal year '12.
But I'll shift to the other side because we left opportunity on the table. Last year, I mentioned, we didn't grow our revenue as fast as we wanted. We don't have a traffic problem. We don't have a marketing problem. Just to give you an example, TurboTax.com last year had 70 million people come to the site. That's 1 out of 2 of all tax filers in the nation. Our challenge is not getting them to come. Our challenge is to having a product so simple that when they logged in, they went ahead and completed their return. So we have to do a better job of keeping our product drop-dead simple for first-time filers, while also remain familiar for the existing customers. And that's an interesting balancing act we have to continue to walk.
The second thing you heard me say, well mobile was on the positive side. Why is it on the opportunity to improve? Because we now are entering an environment where new competitors are coming in, and their products weren't born 3 decades ago like many of ours were, they were born 30 days ago. And they imagined from day 1 what should it look like on a tablet or a phone. And so we have to reimagine our products as if they were born 30 days ago and think what we call mobile-first and mobile-only. That requires us to think differently about products and design. We used to be able to think about a great Mac experience or a great Windows experience. But now, customers often have a phone in their pocket, maybe a tablet in their briefcase and a PC at home or at work, and they want to start to work one place and finish it someplace else, and you have to have a seamless experience across all of those. So we have to think about the multiple platforms.
This last concept I want to say is a little bit of an unveil. It's called we and others, so I'm going to talk about that later. But just to put a bow around fiscal year '12 since it's history at this point, this was a year where we moved up 25 spots in the Top 100 Best Places to Work. It's the year where our employee satisfaction scores ranked in the top 10% of companies measured. We added 10 million customers last year to our franchise; we improved the quality of our products; we grew our top line and bottom line double digit and our stock went up 24%; and we're still grumpy about it. That's why I love working in this company because the company sets high standards and holds itself accountable for those standards. So that's our look back at fiscal year '12.
Now I'm going to get to the more relevant stuff, which is the stuff looking forward. And there's 2 areas that I mentioned I was going to cover. One is the economic environment. Every year, I always preface a thing, I'm not an economist. I went to Marshall University and I had one Economics course, and I can't remember the basics of that Economics course, so you can't say that I'm an economist. But I will tell you that we do look at some fundamental variables that are more behavioral-based that we think gives us an indication of what's going on in the market. I'll spend a couple of minutes on that and then I'll talk about some longer term trends we've been looking at as well.
So in terms of the economy, you know we are primarily a consumer and a small business products company. So on the left-hand side, I have 3 variables up here for consumers. And on the right-hand side, we have 3 variables for small business. Now instead of walking through all the detail, I can tell you what we're seeing from their behaviors. Consumers are basically not spending more than they were last year on their credit cards. We can track that through our small business merchant services. In terms of their savings, they don't have that much in savings. We can track that through their banking accounts, their Mint and Quicken accounts.
On the small business side, unfortunately, by tracking QuickBooks customers and whether they're selling more this year than last year, their actual sales are down for 10 consecutive months. Last month, they went down about half a percentage point. And the best indicator of competence in small businesses, are they hiring employees. And right now, the annualized employment rate is up 1.7%, which is not a significant amount. So if you put this together, we have this term in software called the squint test. If you're looking at a new user interface, if you squint your eyes, can you see basically what the major theme is? If you squint your eyes here, you're going to see 6 lines that are fairly horizontal. In other words if the economy were a patient and we hooked it up to an EKG, it's got a modest pulse. It's getting slightly stronger. But if we had to tell you what we think the next 12 to 18 months is going to look like, it's going to look a lot like the last few years. That's at least our anticipation.
Now the good news is our products were built for these times. We are in the better money outcomes business; easiest way to a maximum refund in TurboTax; being reproductive and being more profitable in QuickBooks. So we have products that remain relatively resilient, but most importantly, very much in demand even in downturns. That's what allowed our company for 5 consecutive years to continue to grow the top line on average 10%, while the GDP has been flat.
So in terms of the economy, the big message that we would share, we don't think it's going to get a lot better. We don't view that as a big obstacle. We view that as a huge opportunity. This is when our customers need us most and this is when our products are most relevant, and we think we can continue to deliver even if the outlook is not rosy.
With that, I'm going to shift to the longer term. You may remember for those of you, and I recognize faces from each year when we come and have a chance to talk, that in 2008, 5 years ago, we celebrated our 25th anniversary. And at that time, we said, "Let's make sure the next 25 years are just as great." And we worked for the company called the Institute for the Future. They're a think tank. They work with governments, they work with large corporations and small businesses and they help you look at trends over the next 5 years that you may want to start to think about strategically. And when we engaged with them in 2008, what we saw was some fundamental shifts that basically told us, and we were convinced, that we were moving from a world that was paper-based, human-produced and brick-and-mortar bound to a world that was in the cloud, to a world where customers wanted to have their information available on mobile devices, the ability to socially connect with friends and peers to get advice on whether this was a good movie to go to and the ability to work across geographies, whether it was states or countries. And we declared this the connected services economy, and we say we were going to build a strategy to make our company relevant in the next chapter.
We put together a strategy. This slide here is a strategy that's been driving our company the last 5 years. We first said, "We have really good franchises; TurboTax, Quicken, QuickBooks, Lacerter, ProSeries." These businesses have a lot of gas in the tank, but we have to make sure they can make the jump as they did from DOS to Windows, and from Windows to Web. We're going to have to take it to the cloud and make it mobile and global. The second thing we said is, "Wow, when you get into the cloud and you start to use things like mobile tools, there's probably a bunch of additional problems we can solve for customers that will help us build other businesses and maybe even go into new geographies." And the third is, you might imagine in a technology company that will shrink wrap software, we had a lot of work to do to translate ourselves into the next chapter of cloud. We had to make sure we had good data centers, we had to make sure we architected our products, and so we had a lot of work to do to become a connected services company. But that was our 3-point plan. We've been following it for 5 years.
Has it worked? Well, I will tell you, first of all, our core franchises, this is a very data-rich chart. On the left-hand side, there are 6 items, these are our 6 core businesses, Financial Management is QuickBooks; Payroll is Payroll; you can see the rest. The second column tells you that each of these businesses are in large and growing markets where we tend to have a strong position, often #1. The third column is in blue, all the customers in that category that are already using an Intuit product. And in gray, or yellow and gold, all the product opportunities we have to just sell more customers because they're using an alternative or a substitute method.
And then the question is, "Well, can you go get those customers?" If you go to the far right, you're going to see some bars with some numbers over them. This is the customer satisfaction ranking of our product, its Net Promoter. Would you recommend it to a friend? And that number is how much higher our customer satisfaction is to the next best competitive alternative in the market, which shows you that, in many cases, we have double-digit higher customer satisfaction ratings. So our core franchises have gotten healthier as we've been following the strategy. Large and growing markets, lots of opportunity to grow.
What else has happened along the way is the company's portfolio has transformed. Remember, I shared earlier, we worked hard to take this 8,000-person company and break it down into these 2 piece of teams? Those small innovative teams last year had created products that produced $100 million in revenue. Those products were not in the market 3 years ago. $100 million last year come from new products. That is 10x more revenue than what we've got in 2010 from new products. So our innovation pipeline is picking up momentum.
In terms of that second box there, we now get 2/3 of our revenue from connected services, something we just declared 5 years ago. And at the bottom, everybody's talking mobile. We now have 7 million customers using mobile devices. And unlike some companies, our business model transfers nicely to the mobile environment so we can monetize them. We generated over $70 million in revenue through mobile products. And when you put it together, this is probably the biggest aha or take away.
When we celebrated our 25th anniversary in 2008, the product that has been doing extremely well in the market, we had 30 million customers. Five years later, we're standing here today with 60 million customers, and 45 million are now in the hosted environment and in the cloud. We've made that next step towards the connected services economy. And the most important thing is we never lost sight of our mission along the way to improve people's lives. $2.5 billion of savings have been returned to net users through things like lower credit card fees. 70% of small businesses have said, we actually improved their bottom line by 20% by saving them time. We have 25 million people who got the easiest way to a maximum refund in TurboTax. And we saved accountants a significant amount of time of being more productive. Along the way, we have fulfilled our mission of trying to help our customers be more successful financially. And we try to do the same thing for our shareholders.
Through this 5-year period, we've been able to grow top line and bottom line at these rates. And if our -- and shareholders have made investments in 2008, these are the kinds of returns they would see. So as we look at the last 5 years, the Institute for the Future's insight gave us some pretty good instinct on what we needed to execute again. And so, we said, "Okay, 5 years are up. We probably should refresh this work and take a look at the future." And we did. We reengaged the Institute for the Future. We have 4 fundamental shifts we see occurring now that are going to impact our strategy for the next 5 years. I'll take a couple of minutes explaining them and then we'll talk about what changed and get to you for your questions.
First of all, we have entered an era that is described as participation-driven innovation. Now that is more sellable in a phrase than I would use in an entire paragraph from West Virginia. What it means is, end users don't want to be consumers anymore. We want to be participants. We choose what information we upload on our LinkedIn or our Facebook. We choose what music we download on our MP3 players. And if you have a tablet or a phone, we choose what apps we want to have on our device. And if you pull your phone out and I'll pull mine out, I'll bet you, we have different music and I'll bet you we have different apps on our phone. Companies that win in this environment not only build great products. They build products that become platforms that end users can configure and add value to, and third parties can build on, like it's the iPhone and the Android that can build apps that make your product even more relevant. That's a very important trend.
The second trend is, the world borders have just come down. When you begin to move into hosted products in the Internet, the Internet has no natural boundaries, and we now have 40% of small businesses doing business outside the U.S. We also have competitors coming from everywhere from Scotland and New Zealand into the United States. To compete in the next era, we have to be a global innovative company.
The third trend, the mobile experience has prevailed. Does anyone here have grandchildren or children under the age of 6? Have you watched any of them walk up to the TV yet and swipe the screen to try to change the channel? When they play with phones and tablets, that's the way they expect things to operate. The same thing with us now. We can walk around with a device with Siri and say, "Where is the nearest library?" And we can get into our phone -- our car. If you have one of the newer cars, then you can have a voice command that says, "Call home." We're expecting these kinds of interfaces on products going forward, and we have to think about how we move from this to that. And so that's an opportunity for us to begin to think about mobile to find experiences.
And the last, as we've entered this era, everyone's calling it big data. We call it big data for the little guy. You can now download an app that will count the calories that you're consuming during lunch. That's probably the last app I ever wanted to download. There's an app that you can actually download that you can put your finger over the little camera light and it will take your pulse. And so, we have all these tools now that give you insight to help you live better. And the same thing happens for small businesses. We can give you insights to help you make better decisions. It's an opportunity to take data and turn it into action.
So these are the big trends. They're exciting trends. They create new opportunity. But we have to capitalize on them if we want to continue to have the kind of run we've had, which takes me to my third and final point, our company strategy. Now I'm going to break this down into 2 pieces. There's 4 elements of our strategy that are relatively unchanged. They've been the spirit of the company for almost 3 decades. And then there is that 3-point plan I went through that we've been following for 5 years, that connected services strategy that we are going to update, and I'll talk about what we're changing, and then we'll get to you for questions.
So what's not changing? The mission. Scott Cook and his co-founders, Tom Proulx, 30 years ago, set out to build a company that would improve people's financial lives in such a way they couldn't imagine going back. Now we're no longer just a Quicken company, so we're now a consumer and small business company. And sometimes we operate with people who are on the other side of helping you manage your finances, like accountants, banks, and now, third-party developers and other end users who are maybe helping you make your product better. And of course, the product we build or design is to deliver better money outcomes, as I described a few minutes ago. So our mission is unchanged.
The second thing that's unchanged is our values. But I'll tell you what's really important now. If you've been reading any of the articles about privacy and security of data, or who's had access to my data, when you move into the world of the cloud and connected services and you talk about the importance of data, people better know they're dealing with the company who's ethical and who will honor their word. And we have a very clear commitment, backed up by our values. It's not our data, it's the customers' data. But we use the data to help you improve your life and we will only use your permission to do anything else with it. So that is fundamental to our strategy, our values.
Our third 2-core capabilities, all companies go to the same business schools, hire the same consultants and try to go after the same markets. What makes companies different is what are they doing that separates them from the pack, and we have 2 things that we continue to practice every day. One is, customer-driven innovation. It's a culture of observation. We do 10,000 hours of Follow Me Homes every year. You've heard me say we're not stalkers, we're invited into the home, but we do observe what you're doing and look for things that are getting in the way and think [ph] we create an opportunity to solve that problem.
And the second is Design for Delight. This is how we build our products. This is a 2 piece of teams that go out and observe customers together. They come back and they go broad before they go narrow. We fall in love with the problem, not the solution. They have to have at least 7 ideas before we narrow it down to 1, and then they run experiments. These are our 2-core capabilities. But we are going to have to update them, and we already have.
When you're in a world now where it's no longer just you building products but you have people wanting to choose what am I going to put on LinkedIn? What music do I want? It's no longer products -- problems that we can solve well, but it's problems that we and those that we enable that can solve well. In another words, how do we make our products more configurable and more open for people to add value? And I'll tell you, when you get this right, you can create something called a virtuous circle. A virtuous circle is, you build the product, someone comes in and adds more value that attracts more users. More users show up and then more people want to come in and build more stuff on it because they want to reach those users and your product gets better while you sleep.
And here is an interesting story I'll share. QuickBooks, our small business product. Every year, we create 150 basically canned reports. We've done all of our Follow Me Homes like here's what a small business wants the P&L to look like; here's what they want their inventory list to look like. And we put it out there with the product every year. And then we do a Follow Me Home a couple of weeks later, one of the first things we see the customer do is customizing the report. And so our team last year said, "Why don't we allow them to save those reports up in the cloud, and maybe there's another small business like them who may prefer their report more than ours?" In 1 year, we got 10,000 reports written by other customers up in the cloud. The top 2,000 most popular don't include any of the 150 we created. That is the power of opening up your opportunity for others to add value.
Now that is being complemented by this. When we talk about Design for Delight and running experiments, we've added more rigor now. Our team, the small 2-piece of teams are now past the days where we have to come in and have a big business card to get something funded. We used to have -- we said, at times, we tried not to, but it was like Julius Caesar. People would present their ideas and you sit up on the mountain and say I like it or I don't like it. And I'll tell you, our ability to predict was pretty far off. So what we've said is, "No, you go out and run experiments, you show us customer data, you bring the data back. And if it's working, then we'll fund it. And if it's not, you probably won't want to bring it back to us, anyhow, you'll have to shut it down on your own." This has been able to improve our batting average, and this is why return-on-invested capital has been north of 20% for the last few years because our R&D investments are getting smarter. We call that the lean startup with a lean loop.
The lasting thing of the 4 elements that's not changing is how we measure success. We fundamentally believe that it's about having an environment where smart people can do great work. In turn, they will come in and channel that energy towards helping customers solve their most important problems. If we do that well, we can produce the kinds of results shareholders expect. So this is the way that I get my performance assessed by the board. This is the way every employee in the company is assessed. So those are 4 elements that are relatively unchanged.
Here's what's going to change. This 3-point plan, which we're very proud of, that we think has built a solid foundation, we think is necessary but not sufficient for the next 5 years. So what's going to be different? Number one, if you want to drive growth in these core franchises like TurboTax, QuickBooks and Quicken, we had to dig in and say what's really the #1 reason why people are buying these products? And what we found out is the same answer we found out 30 years ago. Word-of-mouth. Somebody recommending it because it was so good for them, they tell somebody else to do it. And the #1 driver of word-of-mouth: an amazing, awesome product experience. It was simpler than I thought; it gave me more money than I expected on my refund; it's synched up with my bank in ways I couldn't imagine in Quicken; it was an amazing product experience. That is fundamentally what we have to get back to, our roots.
Here's what's so important now. How many of you have downloaded an app on either a phone or a tablet? A smartphone or a tablet? Can I ask you the question, if you downloaded an app that you didn't like, what do you do when you download the app and you play with it for a little bit, you don't like it? How do you delete it? You hold it till it shakes, you hit the black X and it's gone. Pretty fast. Did you call customer support and ask him about it before you deleted it? Did you look at an ad to see if maybe you didn't understand what it was supposed to do? No. You used it, you didn't like it and you deleted it. If you don't have an amazing first-use experience, and it's not imagined in an environment -- well, that's the way people are now downloading products, you're dead in the water. So we have to make sure we're delivering awesome product experiences that nailed that first-use experience, and particularly for those people who are going to be downloading them through app stores, which is sort of the way things are going.
The second strategy, building adjacent businesses and entering new geographies. Well, we learned an important lesson. And I'll tell you what we learned, it was after QuickBooks report example I gave you a few minutes ago when you let customers do things for you and it makes it even better for them. We're going to do this through enabling the contributions of others.
Here is a story for you. A fast one, I promise. I tend to be a longer storyteller. We declared in 2008 we wanted to become more of a global company. And in 5 years, we're in 5 countries. At that pace, there'll be 72 dog years before we covered the world. So we asked the team, how are we going to go faster? How can we reach hundreds and millions of customers and help solve problems? And our team went out and observed the best practices of others. And what they discovered was, it's more of a platform approach. So our team this year, in the spring, took QuickBooks Online, the hosted version of QuickBooks. They enabled you as a user to click on the country you're in, and it will reroute the language into that language. And then, we also put our assumptions on what the tax rates were. And if you don't believe the tax rates are right, you can change them. And what happens is, we have an editor in chief looking at them. And once you make the change, if it's accurate, we put it in the cloud and it changes it for everybody. So the customers are helping us localize the language, and they're also helping us choose what are the right tax rates. And then, we have accountants and others looking at it, and they're changing that for everybody, so it's becoming a localized product. We launched it on July 19 in beta. We launched it officially on October 1. We went from 5 countries in July, get ready, we're now in 162 countries, 42 languages and 500 tax jurisdictions, with customers helping us localize the product. That's how we go faster in things like global and enabling others to make our products better.
And the last piece here is when you have moved into the cloud as we have, the next chapter is the data. How do you use data to do all the work for the customer so they don't have to do it themselves. Go pre-fill all the information you can to make the product better, or how do you use data to give them insight that they couldn't have known on their own like "Don't make this purchase you're going to be in an overdraft situation". Or did you know you can find lower credit card fees if you look over here to help people face -- get better benefits.
So our third strategy is using data to create customer delight. That's on our 3-point plan. It's pretty fundamental and it's pretty basic. These are the 5 things that, as [ph] went through, awesome product experiences that have an amazing first-use experience, so you don't hit the app and jiggle it until it goes away; reimagine it in a mobile world; enabling the contributions of others to help us make our product more global; and then using data to make our products better.
To wrap up, we're moving now from a company that will shrink wrap desktop software to an ecosystem of products that are increasingly in the cloud that we have opened up so that others can add value, whether it's QuickBooks reports or helping us make the global product better, and then we wake up in the morning and we look for ways to use that data to create interactions and connections to help Mint users fund $2.5 billion of savings or what you're going to hear more about soon, QuickBooks, small business owners who are looking for a loan and they can't get a bank to loan. And banks are trying to find a way to qualify the lowest risk small businesses, and sitting between them is us with QuickBooks. And we have the ability to tell you if a small business is a healthy investment to make a loan. And we've been running tests on this, and we've had very positive results. So these are the kinds of the things we're trying to do with our strategy to stay true to the mission of 30 years ago.
In summary, fiscal year '12, good year. Well, no best year. We know what we need to do to get better. Second, the economy, we don't think it's going to get a whole lot stronger, but we think it's an opportunity to continue to grow. But we do see some big shifts in the market in the future. As a result, we refreshed our strategy, we've got our talent in place, our energy levels are high and we're ready to take the game to the field.
So with that, I want to thank you for your patience of sitting through this monologue. And with that, I'm going to open it up to you for any questions you have.
Turner Middlepeller [ph], shareholder. Congratulations on the performance the last few years and the last year, too. It's been very nice. My question is about why revenue is growing only 10%. You tried to describe some of it. You would think that Intuit is killer competitive. After all, we're #1 or #2 in 5 or 6 of the market areas you said. In 4 of our market areas, we have 1/3 market share or more, in terms of units. Almost all of our product lines are very profitable with operating income to revenue of 25% to 61%, so that's good. Our growth in all of our markets is as fast, or faster, than the markets. So our products are competitive or very competitive. We're getting market share, apparently. And our return on invested capital, like you said, is about 24%, which is high. So I'm wondering, why 10%? After all, there's a lot of market out there that we are not serving. In the areas where we're dominant, consumer tax, employment management systems, financial management systems, Pro Tax, those areas. If we did better, we could increase the number of units that we ship by a lot, 50% to 250%, that's a lot. In the new markets where we are, in the digital bank and payments, it'd be more like 700% or 900%, it's a lot. So I'm wondering, why only 10%? Do you really think that, that we are focusing on the right growth markets well enough?
Brad D. Smith
I think it's a fantastic question and I agree, 100%, with your thesis, as does the entire management team and, I would say, the board. I would tell you that what we fundamentally believe, as we have untapped opportunities to accelerate our revenue growth, our challenge is, we have got to get our products back to the point where they're so simple, not multiple years of adding an additional feature because we needed to figure out a way to have an upgrade cycle, but getting it right to the point where the customer can come in and solve their most important problem as quickly as possible. It is about reimagining, having an amazing first use experience. That's our challenge. And it's also an opportunity, because very seldom do you have something happen simultaneously. Many companies get to the point where they have products and they add more features, and they add more features, and they add more features, and the existing customers are happy but the new customers, they, "Ooo, that's just too hard for me." But when you have something like a platform shift come along where you have to now figure out how your product is going to work on a phone, or a tablet, where you don't have all that real estate, so you got to narrow in on the most important thing, you can get it very simple again. So, for example, our GoPayment product, 70% of the customers are new to the franchise, they've never used another product. TurboTax, the SnapTax product, 50% are new to the franchise. So we have to get the fundamentals in making our product experience so good and so simple for a first-time user, that they will tell their friends and family members, and we'll get the next generation of customers, too. That's our fundamental premise. It is execution, it is focus, it applies to all of our businesses and it's the thing we are laser-focused on. Now I'm going to separate that, because that is the 99% answer. The 1% answer is, we have been through a period where the number of small business formations have actually decreased over the last 5 years, and there's been some challenging things. But that for me says, "Hey, there's still 29 million small businesses in the U.S. and we only have 4 million of them." Even if there wasn't another one starting tomorrow, we've got lots of opportunities, as you said. So it comes down to just making sure our products are drop-dead simple, and that the new user is just as excited as the existing user and we've got to make them much simpler to use. That's it. I own it, we own it. That answer your question? Okay?
Matt Hurafatt [ph], shareholder. First of all, congratulations. This is one of the best run companies in the entire valley.
Brad D. Smith
Thank you. The management team is a very strong team and the board is excellent. And I appreciate being able to go on the ride.
Two questions, actually, one comment and one question. Without knowing that I actually, last year, went online to use your, I guess, it's the cloud-based service where you go online and upload all of your data online. And halfway through, I realized that's not what I was looking for, I usually get the CD or I download the entire program. And halfway through, I said, "This isn't what I'm looking for." The discount doesn't quite apply. I clicked on a special offer from Fidelity. So the problem is, when I exited that application, you still have my data. And even though this is last year, I'm still stressed out about it. I know that you have no security issues, and so on, but I'm wondering if there's a way to allow consumers, like myself, to go in and say, "You got my data, that's nice, but when I exit this particular application, get rid of my data." That's number 1. Number 2, obviously, you got incredible products. And my question to you is, what do you see as a next game-changer products in your stable?
Brad D. Smith
Okay, thank you. Laura, do you want to help talk to the first one. Laura actually helps lead our data services and privacy and security group. And she and I partner as we go out and talk. So if we have a microphone, maybe we can just give to Laura. Talk about, first, around the data up in the cloud and what we can do with that. And then I'll add more color to it.
Laura A. Fennell
Sure. So we can help you. I mean, so it's -- whether or not, I mean -- if we have your data, we can figure out what to do with it. So you can work with us to do that. So I mean that's really what the answer is. So what we need to do is, make sure that you call in, you can call me, and it'll help me figure it out. But it is your data, so we can help you figure it out.
Brad D. Smith
We have permissions and we only act on the instructions you give us for the data. And so I just wanted to make sure we had the connectivity...
Laura A. Fennell
Yes, yes. And just so you understand, it is secure, we're good at that. We're not doing anything with it. So like don't be nervous about it, but give us a call and we'll help you out.
Brad D. Smith
The second one is always an interesting question, what is the game changer? That's what we're in pursuit of as we run these rapid experiments, and we go out and do these follow-me-homes. And we run these kinds of prototype tests to see what we can find that's going to really change the world for the customer and potentially add new growth for us. We have lots of very promising experiments right now. In terms of 20:1, I'm telling you, I think this is a fundamental game changer. I will tell you that what I believe the space is going to be, is going to be on the under-served and over-served market, the lower end of our market. In small business, there's still a significant number of people, so before they ever need to think about accounting, have other problems they have to solve. How do I actually make schedules? And I don't need a fully automated CRM system, I just need to have some sort of an appointment scheduler and a to-do list. So we have these sort of mini jobs that we can go in and if we can start forming a relationship then and solving that problem well, as they become more successful, we can open up more functionality and then create an opportunity to move into the Entelika [ph] system. I think that's the fundamental opportunity. And It's not only in the U.S., it's around the globe. Most of the world's economy is powered by very small businesses. And before they need full-fledged accounting, they need to solve these very specific tasks. And that's where they're really spending a lot of energy and time. So that would be the sweet spot. But in terms of, "Have we found one that's going to be our next TurboTax?" It's a little premature to declare at this point. Yes?
In terms of an area that could use technology to improve our productivity and drive costs down, one is the health care system, and I know, a few years ago, Intuit was doing something with that. I was wondering if you're thinking about that going forward for one of these new areas.
Brad D. Smith
Yes. So we are still in the health care space. We began in 2005. We had an employee who had a child with a chronic illness. And so, in that period of innovation time, created a product called Quicken Medical Expense Manager. And we said, "Wow, this looks like a real important problem we can solve." And we put it into retail and it didn't work. And it didn't work because people dealing with the health issues and the emotional issues, didn't want take down -- sit down and key information in. And so we said, "We're pulling out." And the health care industry said, "Don't. If you did it for taxes, you can do it for us. What if we give you the data?" And we said, "Okay, we'll give it a shot." So we ran another couple of years of experiments where health care plans fed the data in, so the consumer didn't have to key the data in and we saw that we could solve the problem, but no one was willing to pay. And we said, "Okay, well, we're not going to give that up. We're going to figure out if we can port that to another idea." And so we bought a portal business, basically a small doctor practice can now have a website. And you can get your information through the website, and you can interact with your doctor and schedule appointments and get your lab results back. And we've been running that for the last 2.5 years. The good news is, we've gone from 1.5 million patients to 7.5 million patients. And the Net Promoter Score is very high, it's a 68. The bad news is, the structure of the entire environment is such, now that these portals are not being bought as a stand-alone product, they are being embedded into these big enterprise systems that doctors and hospitals are buying, and so we've been, somewhat, dis-intermediated from the ability to work directly with the end-user. So we're still trying to figure out how to solve that problem well. We haven't given up on health care. In fact, we have a small business health care debit -- a small business health care card, so a small business owner doesn't have to offer insurance. They can actually take pretax money and put it on a card, and give it to the employee and say "Here's $2,500. Go find some insurance [indiscernible] so they can compete." We're doing some things in TurboTax to get ready for next year's legislation where you have to have health care coverage or you have a penalty. So we're all over health care, but we haven't found that one thing that we think will help us turn it in a big opportunity. Sorry for the long answer, but that's 7, 8 years of sort of patience, but not an answer yet. Okay? How are we doing on time?
Yanna Faley [ph], shareholder, as well as a 25-year business owner, where my entire business is based on your products. I train and -- I train individuals and small businesses, and customize Quicken data files, and have for 25 years. So I was here a year ago and brought up Quicken for Mac. And you talked about how embarrassed the company was about the fact that you haven't updated Quicken for Mac since 2007. I was a little disappointed when I came to the desk and had my option of Quicken for Windows or Essentials. And as you know, and we all know, and I have a lot of very unhappy customers and clients waiting. And the growth of -- or the growth of Apple has just exploded, as we talked about last year, and here we are again. It's a year later, we're talking about going around the world and adding more to the world. And as a shareholder, that's great. I love that. But as a person whose business is -- and my income comes from people who are happy with using your product, I have a lot of unhappy customers right now and they're all -- I tell them on -- I'm going to the shareholders meeting. Hopefully, I'll have some good news for you. So I'm your word-of-mouth person. And I'm here to tell you that I work with just me, it's my own business, it's just me. I'm a sole proprietor. I have 50 to 100 people that I work with on an annual basis, all by myself. So help me.
Brad D. Smith
Yes. Thank you. And I do recall our conversation and I do recall my embarrassment, and I reiterate the same thing. But I want to let you understand why. When you're working in an organization where you have lots of opportunities, you have to choose where you're going to invest. And the reality is, Quicken, for us, is a franchise that is extremely important from a brand perspective and from a customer perspective. But in terms of its ability to turn into a massive growth opportunity, we have been at it for 30 years. And the truth is, there is a limited finite universe of people, and I'll come back to the second part, I can see that you're not happy with this part of the answer, but it's true. Quicken was a business of x size when our chairman ran it, and it's a business of x size when I ran it, and that size hasn't changed. No, we don't want to sell it. We're taking you to the second part but -- so when you're making choices of where you're going to invest, and you look at the ability to grow QuickBooks Online, or to help customers solve new, important problems, or continue to do that in Quicken, we know that, that market is not a market that we have the ability to accelerate performance. But we have to reimagine how we go after that market. So here's what's been going on behind Quicken for the Mac. There is no way we can take 30 years of development on Windows, and probably about 12 years of that time, we actually put some time on the Mac, and bring them to parity. Not in 2 different code bases. So we have been rewriting the code base, that will be up in the cloud and have the ability for you to then have a Windows app, or a Mac app, so that depending upon which environment you're in, it will feel native to you, but it'll have, basically, a similar engine. We began using the Mint engine to do that, and we've been adding Quicken functionality in. It is not an easy, short-term task, but we are working towards getting there. And I can tell you, we have a general manager that just went into the business about 60 days ago. He's one of our very proven general managers. He's spent a lot of time in TurboTax and he's helping us solve that problem, and helping us think about what are other ways we can get the Quicken brand, and the Quicken franchise, to be a growth opportunity for customers and a growth opportunity for Intuit. So very thick? Okay, I'll be happy to connect them. So I will stand in front of you and say this, Quicken customers, "Quicken is not a business that, at this point, we have said anything other than we believe in, but it is not the biggest opportunity in the company, in terms of where we put our resources, but we have not forgotten about the fact that we have to bring it to the next generation for customers so that it works in the new environment. And we're committed to doing that and I will acknowledge our pace has not been satisfactory to me, and certainly not satisfactory to you. For that I apologize. And I will connect Barry with you, okay?
Shelton Erlick [ph], shareholder. In April of this last year, an organization called ThinkProgress, touted the fact that they had forced you to drop membership or contributions to the American Legislative Exchange Council, which they accused of voter suppression and which, I thought, was trying to eliminate voter fraud. So I would like to know whether you dropped it because you recoursed or whether it saved you money and time.
Brad D. Smith
Right. Thank you, Shelton, for the question. Laura, I'll actually -- well, I can take this one because Bernie McKenna [ph]talked about it. We had made a decision to no longer be associated with that organization almost a year in advance. And it was primarily because what we were -- we have certainly -- a certain policy agenda that we think are important for our users and that's where we engaged. For example, we fundamentally believe that a taxpayer should have the right to be able to do their own taxes and not have a government entity come in and say, "Here's how much you owe me, send me the money." That's a little like the fox guarding the hen house. So we could know, that's important. We want to make sure that there's an ability for you to have voluntary tax compliance and that you have tools available to you. We're also very committed to things like privacy and security of consumer data. We have a fundamental belief that it is your data, not the company's data, so we engage there. This particular group that you were talking about was no longer putting their energy against those kinds of areas. They were beginning to put the energy into areas like the one you just talked about. Their view of what should be happening with voting. We felt that was not a place for us to spend our corporate affairs or government relations energy, so we let them know a year in advance. This particular group did come out and say, "Hey, we forced them to take credit." But I can stand in front of you and tell you those were 2 very independent occurrences. Yes?
First of all, I've been an ordained minister for 36 years, I know something about public speaking. I congratulate you, sir, you do well. You gave us the whole gospel in 20 minutes. I could never do that.
Brad D. Smith
It felt like 2 hours.
I know. My name is Michael Neils [ph], I'm here in behalf of the Parents Television Council, a shareholder. We're a nonprofit organization whose mission is to protect children from the proven harm that comes from exposure to graphic violence, sex and profanity in entertainment. I'm sorry, I have to express a concern about the way our advertising dollars are being spent. Our company continues to sponsor some of the most violent programs on television. An example, and I apologize in advance, for the explicit language here. American Horror Story, recently, just a couple of weeks ago, maintenance man masturbating in a closet while peeking through the wall to watch a nun taking a bath. A little girl, Jesse, about 10, standing next to the corpse of her friend whom she just stabbed to death with a pair of scissors. Language is graphic and I apologize, but it's illustrative of what we're associating our company's name with on television. In one way or another, this stuff gets to children. You can say it shouldn't, parents should monitor, but it does. It's part of a culture of media violence and that's pretty much in the news today. And unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, the effects on children are documented and proven. This is a quote from testimony given in Congress in 2003, "The correlation between violent media and aggressive behavior in children is stronger than that of lead ingestion and lower IQ, condom non-use and sexually-acquired HIV and environmental tobacco smoke and lung cancer, all associations that clinicians accept as fact. Mr. Chairman, with our advertising, we are contributing to a media environment that is messing with the hearts and minds and souls of our nation, and especially our children. I'm a father of a 5.5-year-old. There's a better way. The President of Wal-Mart has sent us a letter this year saying, guess what? "When we advertise on family-friendly entertainment, we get an 18% higher return on our advertising dollars." At the end of the meeting, will you commit to introducing me to a senior staff member, in charge of TV advertising? I would like to work with you. We work with Procter & Gamble, Kraft, Smucker, Wal-Mart, Hallmark, Crown Media, lots of others. I'd like to come back next year and report to the shareholders that Intuit has become more responsible in what we choose to sponsor and, if that is the case, you will be able to report a higher rate of return on what Intuit is investing in advertising dollars. Thank you.
Brad D. Smith
Thank you. So I'll answer your question first. Yes, I will introduce you to the person who's responsible. I'll also tell you that, I'm a father of 2 daughters and share the same concerns, as many parents I'm sure do, around what's happening with pop culture. I will also say, on behalf of the company, that we are very focused on this particular topic, and we try to choose very carefully the programming that we're going to have our advertising next to and associated with. And from a media buying perspective, sometimes what also happens when you do that, is you have opportunistic buys that stations and other -- or the media will do on your behalf. And with all that being said, when we have people reach out to us and tell us about an issue or concern, we look into it and we take action. So I am more than happy to make you a part of that conversation and I appreciate the fact you put it on the table.
Carl Hoffner [ph], shareholder. And I will not repeat the stuff on dealing with the Macintosh. But I commend you for the -- as an investor, having an investment in this company is one of the stellar investments that I've had an opportunity to make, and that is only surpassed by Apple, and that's kind of wavering now, but yours never wavers. Sir, congratulations on that aspect. Now from a product standpoint, I don't trust the cloud. Probably from my age and usability, but I understand why the company is going in that direction, because that's what's driving your future items and you're doing an excellent job in that regard. Don't change it. Now I presume that the disks and so forth that we get at the front desk are identical to what I would get if I bought Intuit TurboTax at Costco, or something like that. I've been an evangelist for Quicken and TurboTax, for family and friends, every time I talk to somebody, dozens of people, including 3 generations of my own family, I put in that regard. My experience with the TurboTax this year was so bad that I am actually considering going to an alternate product because what I got at the end of -- first of all, I could not move things from my Quicken directly into my tax deal. No big deal, I could print out my Quicken stuff and I could move the stuff manually, which I've done for years. But having put it all together, worked my way through it, when I got to the end of printing it, it quit on my Macintosh. I have still not been able to print, I could not review my tax. I've finally said, "Oh, the hell with it." I don't know whether it is accurate or not, I will submit it to the federal. It kind of annoyed the hell out of me with the state because, where they still charge $20 to turn in a direct in there, whereas the federal does not charge anything. I usually take a printed copy, a little book and mail it to the state and they can deal with the damned thing, if they're not going to make it easy for me to submit it. This year, I said, "I can't do that." I even thought of printing out some IRS tax forms and taking data that I could look at on my screen and entering it, and I finally gave it up and just turned it in. I still don't have a copy of what I submitted. I'm not sure if it's acted or not. By the time -- I always procrastinate. I like to work out in the yard and so forth during the springtime and not work on taxes. So I always have extended it. When I completed my product at the -- and ready to submit, it said, "You owe nothing." I had to -- I did owe a little bit, and it said, "You don't have to pay any penalty, you don't have to pay any," -- that and so forth. So I took that. Well, about 3 weeks later, I get a thing from the federal government that says, "You do owe, not a penalty, but you do owe interest." And I figured it out, if the product simply didn't look at the date in which I was submitting it and was thinking it was April 15, and no it wasn't, it was October. So I'm concerned that your inattention, back to the original products, like Quicken, like TurboTax, is starting to take people like me, and say, "I'll keep my investment, but I may go to one of the competing products now, because I don't like what the product is doing." I would appreciate working with some of your people, a few folks. I get a thing periodically that says, "If you would like to participate in a development forum," so I fill out a form. I can tell by the form, they're looking for people who work in the cloud, who use their iPhone for stuff and things like that, I know I'm not going to get picked. But my problem is, with the inattention back to those original products, which have flaws in them now, I consider that you're leaving the basis for the company at extreme risk.
Brad D. Smith
Very fair. I, first of all, appreciate and apologize for the experience you went through. You're not alone in procrastinating. Lots and lots of us get to that sort of point. The second is, I am hopeful that, that is not the product experience that others have gone through because that is a very horrendous experience that you lived through. And I will say that I will be more than happy to have you connect with our team in TurboTax. I do want to leave a message for you and for all of the group here. We talk about the future, but we have a very clear and proven commitment of the company. We don't force the business model on a customer. We have desktop products and we have cloud products. Our job is to figure out a way to have the best quality in both and, where possible, to have the ability to make one engineering change that improves both at the same time so you don't have to end up doing double work. And that's the challenge we have. In TurboTax, we're probably the closest to doing that, which is the ability to write the code and it works on the Mac and the Windows without any sort of difference between future functionality. I can't understand, without getting someone to talk to you who understands the technical nuances of what you ran into, what the issue was, but that is not the experience. And I would tell you that, if we aren't delighting existing customers, we aren't going to be a company that can be good to invest in. And so we have not lost focus that our priority is to delight customers with the products we build. So I apologize for that, we will get somebody -- if you come up and see me afterwards, I want to make sure I get your contact information and we'll follow-up with you.
There's one other thing. I have your card, I could call you. And as I said this isn't working for me. Well, I'm a customer, in this regard, so I went in to the website to see who I could call to help me out. I could find no way of getting through to an individual, direct contact to the company to assist. I'm also invested in [indiscernible]. I can call them at any time, 24 hours a day, talk to a real person, who speaks real English, [indiscernible] or Indianapolis or whatever, and they will discuss any problem I have with their product and correct it. I don't find that availability with Intuit. In other words, I'm -- as a customer, and not as an investor, [indiscernible] through that camp, as a customer, I found no way of contacting -- and [indiscernible] deals with the questions I have to solve my problem. I think maybe you can be able to have that available someplace on your website or your -- the product itself.
Brad D. Smith
Agreed, agreed. Okay, I apologize. I know there may be others who have questions. I want to make sure we capture the questions. So is there a process that we can -- do we have time for one more? Let's do that.
My name is Steve Seleske, and I'm a shareholder, and the good news is, I have a very easy question. Mine involves the general trend of margins associated with going from a shrink-wrapped package to a cloud-based, and I know it's over time, obviously, but I'm curious as to how that works out. And the other question is, it's just a sort of general, it's about Mint. I'd like you to talk, if you could, just for a few minutes, about how that acquisition worked out, the positive and negative.
Brad D. Smith
Sure. The first part of the question you asked was, in particular going from shrink-wrapped to the cloud, what was the nature of the question?
The margins, the long-term margins involved.
Brad D. Smith
Got it. So first of all, in terms of the transition what's very interesting is our margins have actually been expanding as we move more into the cloud. The primary reason is because of revenue opportunity. The average revenue per customer tends to be higher as we move into the cloud-based products. I'll give you an example. You can buy a version of QuickBooks and you buy it every other year and you pay about $200, you upgrade every 2 or 3 years. If you actually get the online version, it's around $26 a month. And people get the convenience of being able to use it on their phone and tablet and anywhere they want, and the dial-in, if they're willing, so the cross value for them is right. And so we actually had the ability to increase lifetime value. The other thing is, there's efficiency. When you have lots of hosted products and a handful of data centers, the cost of goods, the ability to actually have digital COGS, goes down. So you get marginal contributions. The last unit you sell is more profitable than the unit before, so our margins have expanded. And we continue to see that as we go to the cloud-based products. In terms of Mint, it's been a tale of two cities. What we've gotten with Mint is an unbelievable set of talent and engineers, an inspirational way to reimagine our products in a world where you make them drop-dead simple for someone who doesn't want to sit down and have to learn a lot. In fact, what Mint does when you get a -- where you bank and a password and it goes and pulls all the information, creates your pie chart, builds a budget and gives you a forecast. And you don't have the key anything in, categorize anything, do anything. And so, we call that Mintify. And Mint has now been working with all of our other teams, like a new version of QuickBooks, that will be coming out in the next 90 days, that works really well on the Mac product, that has basically Mintified it's products, so it makes it much simpler for someone to come in, who may not understand accounting. The downside is while we have grown from just about 2 million users to 10 million users, in the period of time that Mint came in, the model shifted from people on the web, where we would introduce you to a credit card company or some else, and we would get paid a lead, to on the mobile phone. And this is the one business in our company that is most like advertising. And advertising is a susceptible business model, when you go from the web to the phone, because we haven't figured out a way as an industry to get people to click through those mobile ads because they're very disruptive. So average revenue per customer on Mint, on the mobile device, is lower that what we were getting on the web. And so, as more people start to log in through the phone now, the actual revenue per customer is lower. So even though we're making it up on volume, we're getting a lower price per user, and so the revenue hasn't grown as fast as we had anticipated. Now we're on that, we're solving it, we've actually introduced it to our banking channel. So the banks are excited to offering Mint to their customers and are willing to pay us to do it. So we're looking for ways to solve it. So the product's solving the problem the customer wants, the business model shifted on us but we've gotten a lot of talent and they're making the rest of the company's products better. So I would give it a -- in a regular grain, I would give it a yellow with a little tinge of green at the top. Okay?
Thank you so much. I appreciated today's questions. I also appreciate some of the concerns you put on the table. For those of you that we've agreed to follow-up with, if you just come up and meet me upfront, I'll make sure that I get the contact information and we'll get you connected. Everyone else, have a great year and we'll see -- I'm sorry, Marj?
Well, I just want to say if anybody does have additional questions, we'll be outside with the head of Corporate Finance; Matt Rhodes, Head of Investor Relations; and [indiscernible]
Brad D. Smith
Great. Yes, for those whose hands went up and we ran out of time, let's make sure we get your questions and we'll get going. Thanks, everybody. I appreciate it.
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