Marc Faber on the Economy, Gold, WWIII 67 comments
Tim Iacono
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Another good interview with Dr. Marc Faber, this one over at Bloomberg where he's been a regular for many years (recent appearances at the likes of CNBC are somewhat unusual as he tends to go against conventional wisdom, something that abounds at CNBC).
That's the problem of society. If people can not accept the downside to capitalism, then they should become socialists and then they have a planned economy. They should go to eastern Europe twenty years ago and to Russia and China for the last 70 years. Why is he losing his home? Because of government intervention. The government - the Federal Reserve - kept interest rates artificially low and created the biggest housing bubble, not just in the U.S. but worldwide. That is what I'd explain to the worker in Detroit.
There's lots of good stuff in this one - the outlook for the global economy, oil, gold, base metals, natural resource stocks, World War III having already started...
On the subject of alternatives to the government solutions for the current problems, he was asked how he expected the populace to stand for the government doing nothing?
How do you tell that to somebody in Detroit who's losing his home today?
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This article has 67 comments:
I've been criticized by friends for living in a cheap apartment, not buying new furniture, not buying a new car, not taking that second credit card, not buying new clothes. But now, my rent is affordable, my heat is free, my lights are cheap, my car is paid off, my credit card carries a balance that will be paid off next week, and my furniture and clothes are still just as good as they were. I won't have a house to leave to my kids (and they won't have to try to sell it), but I will have money. The funny thing about money is that kids young and old like it. And they like it more than Aunt Gerda's antimacassar and Uncle Herb's rickety rocking chair.
As a nation, as independent and FREE thinkers, we need to begin to take responsibility for our OWN actions, we need to stop whining and blaming everything else for what we have brought on ourselves. Housing bubble or not, global warming or not, it isn't important if WE don't take responsibility for ourselves. I'm tired of listening to everyone place blame.
Very great. I am from Europe and always being told that I am a communist or so.
But take the article above, YOU USA complain more about government and less about your own actions as the people in the former communist states do.
Thanks for the post. Marc Faber is one in the small minority that saw this coming well in advance. His early warnings made me more cautious. Unfortunately, I also took in too much of CNBC and other serial propagandists and played it half way. That half got beat up. So those like Marc who go public on what was then a small minority view and boldly proclaim their analysis now have earned the respect and attention they deserve.
CNBC on the other hand has been almost eliminated from my financial news input. Examples are endless, but here's just a few:
Dot-com peak: The cheerleading was rampant and analysis was laughable (remember "price/page hits" for those companies who couldn't give a PE or PS cause they had no E, and often no S.) Timing was exactly wrong. That was the time to sell not buy.
Late summer '02: Maria Barkarama was interviewing Bill Fleckenstein on closing bell after another awful day. After almost all the damage was done, then he finally gets some air time. Timing was exactly wrong. That was the time to buy not sell.
2007: Cheerleading is again in vogue. And where bears get air time, they are often criticized by permabulls like Larry Kudlow and the Kool-Aid drinkers he seems so fond of. Ditto on timing comments.
2008: After a nearly 50% selloff, bears are shown a little more respect.
Now Larry Kudlow (who has been shockingly wrong the past year) is calling for a "panic rally".
Like I said, I've about eliminated CNBC from my news input. Remember Bagdad Bob (the former Iraqi Information Minister)? He was interviewed live on air proclaiming certain victory as enemy tanks were rolling into Bagdad just a short distance from where he was standing. Now think of Larry Kudlow's predictions over the past year, and most of CNBC for that matter. CNBC has become the Bagdad Bob of financial journalism.
By October 2007, he said that Americans were experiencing recession only that they did not know it as yet.
It took one year later by the NBER to declare such truth, thus proving Marc Faber right.
To guess what should happen in stocks at the stock exchanges, what should happen in commodities at the commodity exchanges, a man must look outside such systems.
This is what Marc Faber does. He travels the earth relentlessly visiting the marketplaces for goods, talking to manufacturers.
Marc Faber looks at credit money growth and shipping levels to gain a better picture of what is happening.
Underspending your income and saving for a rainny day is where everyone should be.
On Jan 07 08:27 AM whisperonthewind wrote:
> We can blame others (governments, banks, big oil, etc.) until the
> skies turn polka-dotted, but at some point we have to accept responsibility
> for the things we each do for ourselves and TO ourselves. WE the
> users went for those adjustable rate mortgages. WE believed the hype.
> WE didn't pay the mortgage. WE lost those houses/cars/boats. The
> government here is such that it makes things available, but no one
> forced anyone to sign the papers. WE did that. WE refused to read
> the papers. WE refused to do the math. WE refused to ask the loan-makers
> to show us the numbers on paper. WE refused to listen when the interest
> rates were going up. And WE liked it, because our house values were
> going up at the same time. WE wanted higher values for our houses
> because we knew it would make us rich when we sold to some poor sucker.
> The blame lies with each of us that made those stupid mistakes.<br/>
>
> I've been criticized by friends for living in a cheap apartment,
> not buying new furniture, not buying a new car, not taking that second
> credit card, not buying new clothes. But now, my rent is affordable,
> my heat is free, my lights are cheap, my car is paid off, my credit
> card carries a balance that will be paid off next week, and my furniture
> and clothes are still just as good as they were. I won't have a house
> to leave to my kids (and they won't have to try to sell it), but
> I will have money. The funny thing about money is that kids young
> and old like it. And they like it more than Aunt Gerda's antimacassar
> and Uncle Herb's rickety rocking chair.
>
> As a nation, as independent and FREE thinkers, we need to begin to
> take responsibility for our OWN actions, we need to stop whining
> and blaming everything else for what we have brought on ourselves.
> Housing bubble or not, global warming or not, it isn't important
> if WE don't take responsibility for ourselves. I'm tired of listening
> to everyone place blame.
On Jan 07 08:54 AM Vienna wrote:
> whisperonthewind
>
> Very great. I am from Europe and always being told that I am a communist
> or so.
>
> But take the article above, YOU USA complain more about government
> and less about your own actions as the people in the former communist
> states do.
I agree. CNBC is a contrarian, backwards-looking indicator. The only people they show are the ones whose investment styles have been in style and are about to go out of style.
Farber's world view allows but a single cause for our current mess. The fact that many shady mortgage lenders chose to make risky loans to underdocumented and poor risk borrowers or that many borrowers chose to leverage their homes to the maximum extent possible based on the hype that home prices would grow forever at a 20% rate is not possible in his world. Nope, it was all the governments fault.
Farber's world view has no room for compassion. Does he think that those people in Detroit who have worked hard and saved all their lives but have now lost their jobs and are in danger of losing their homes and healthcare and everything else as a result of the poor choices made by others should be left to their own devices? Why not, he is still rich. Why should he care?
Farber may be a great investor, but I would never let such a narrow minded ideologue make social policy for the rest of us.
been thrown out the window. Theft is ok, greed is God.
Joe has evolved and matured into one of the best analysts and deep strategic thinkers anywhere , bar none. He is always keen and razor sharp! And where do we see him , why, on CNBC.
There are a few other great ones like Joe on CNBC, but they are not given their due or just time, just like Joe isn't , because CNBC is much too bland, Corporate and bureaucratic for that.
Quentin Hardy on another channel is also excellent (and the ONLY one that is "fair and balanced" on that channel, if you know what I mean), and there are a few more , but not many as the readers have acknowledged.
Just glad to give Joe and Quentin a hand of well earned applause where I can , because unable to tell them directly, and they richly deserve it. The best of continued success to them.
Thx
Rich
On Jan 07 08:27 AM whisperonthewind wrote:
> We can blame others (governments, banks, big oil, etc.) until the
> skies turn polka-dotted, but at some point we have to accept responsibility
> for the things we each do for ourselves and TO ourselves. WE the
> users went for those adjustable rate mortgages. WE believed the hype.
> WE didn't pay the mortgage. WE lost those houses/cars/boats. The
> government here is such that it makes things available, but no one
> forced anyone to sign the papers. WE did that. WE refused to read
> the papers. WE refused to do the math. WE refused to ask the loan-makers
> to show us the numbers on paper. WE refused to listen when the interest
> rates were going up. And WE liked it, because our house values were
> going up at the same time. WE wanted higher values for our houses
> because we knew it would make us rich when we sold to some poor sucker.
> The blame lies with each of us that made those stupid mistakes.<br/>
>
> I've been criticized by friends for living in a cheap apartment,
> not buying new furniture, not buying a new car, not taking that second
> credit card, not buying new clothes. But now, my rent is affordable,
> my heat is free, my lights are cheap, my car is paid off, my credit
> card carries a balance that will be paid off next week, and my furniture
> and clothes are still just as good as they were. I won't have a house
> to leave to my kids (and they won't have to try to sell it), but
> I will have money. The funny thing about money is that kids young
> and old like it. And they like it more than Aunt Gerda's antimacassar
> and Uncle Herb's rickety rocking chair.
>
> As a nation, as independent and FREE thinkers, we need to begin to
> take responsibility for our OWN actions, we need to stop whining
> and blaming everything else for what we have brought on ourselves.
> Housing bubble or not, global warming or not, it isn't important
> if WE don't take responsibility for ourselves. I'm tired of listening
> to everyone place blame.
That's the problem of society. If people can not accept the downside to capitalism, then they should become socialists and then they have a planned economy.
"
We do have a planned economy and socialism, but its for the ruling classes which were bail-out instead of liquidating.
For the "peasants", capitalism, or what remains of it, for the capitalist elites, a bail-out to the tune of $trillions in newly printed dollars, courtesy of the FED. The even larger problem of hyperinflation is yet to come, of course. And, sad to say, the "peasants" will once again be taken "to the cleaners". So much for capitalism, as it is practiced in the USA.
That is why reinflation will have limited effects. But tax cuts and creating the ability for entrepenuars to get loans (liked the 2007 Kerry plan on small business) is part of Obama's economic team plans. Let's see that plan before I make serious judgements/investment advice.
On Jan 07 08:27 AM whisperonthewind wrote:
> We can blame others (governments, banks, big oil, etc.) until the
> skies turn polka-dotted, but at some point we have to accept responsibility
> for the things we each do for ourselves and TO ourselves. WE the
> users went for those adjustable rate mortgages. WE believed the hype.
> WE didn't pay the mortgage. WE lost those houses/cars/boats. The
> government here is such that it makes things available, but no one
> forced anyone to sign the papers. WE did that. WE refused to read
> the papers. WE refused to do the math. WE refused to ask the loan-makers
> to show us the numbers on paper. WE refused to listen when the interest
> rates were going up. And WE liked it, because our house values were
> going up at the same time. WE wanted higher values for our houses
> because we knew it would make us rich when we sold to some poor sucker.
> The blame lies with each of us that made those stupid mistakes.<br/>
>
> I've been criticized by friends for living in a cheap apartment,
> not buying new furniture, not buying a new car, not taking that second
> credit card, not buying new clothes. But now, my rent is affordable,
> my heat is free, my lights are cheap, my car is paid off, my credit
> card carries a balance that will be paid off next week, and my furniture
> and clothes are still just as good as they were. I won't have a house
> to leave to my kids (and they won't have to try to sell it), but
> I will have money. The funny thing about money is that kids young
> and old like it. And they like it more than Aunt Gerda's antimacassar
> and Uncle Herb's rickety rocking chair.
>
> As a nation, as independent and FREE thinkers, we need to begin to
> take responsibility for our OWN actions, we need to stop whining
> and blaming everything else for what we have brought on ourselves.
> Housing bubble or not, global warming or not, it isn't important
> if WE don't take responsibility for ourselves. I'm tired of listening
> to everyone place blame.
On Jan 07 09:14 AM basehitz wrote:
> Tim,
> Thanks for the post. Marc Faber is one in the small minority that
> saw this coming well in advance. His early warnings made me more
> cautious. Unfortunately, I also took in too much of CNBC and other
> serial propagandists and played it half way. That half got beat up.
> So those like Marc who go public on what was then a small minority
> view and boldly proclaim their analysis now have earned the respect
> and attention they deserve.
>
> CNBC on the other hand has been almost eliminated from my financial
> news input. Examples are endless, but here's just a few:
>
> Dot-com peak: The cheerleading was rampant and analysis was laughable
> (remember "price/page hits" for those companies who couldn't give
> a PE or PS cause they had no E, and often no S.) Timing was exactly
> wrong. That was the time to sell not buy.
>
> Late summer '02: Maria Barkarama was interviewing Bill Fleckenstein
> on closing bell after another awful day. After almost all the damage
> was done, then he finally gets some air time. Timing was exactly
> wrong. That was the time to buy not sell.
>
> 2007: Cheerleading is again in vogue. And where bears get air time,
> they are often criticized by permabulls like Larry Kudlow and the
> Kool-Aid drinkers he seems so fond of. Ditto on timing comments.
>
>
> 2008: After a nearly 50% selloff, bears are shown a little more respect.
>
>
> Now Larry Kudlow (who has been shockingly wrong the past year) is
> calling for a "panic rally".
>
> Like I said, I've about eliminated CNBC from my news input. Remember
> Bagdad Bob (the former Iraqi Information Minister)? He was interviewed
> live on air proclaiming certain victory as enemy tanks were rolling
> into Bagdad just a short distance from where he was standing. Now
> think of Larry Kudlow's predictions over the past year, and most
> of CNBC for that matter. CNBC has become the Bagdad Bob of financial
> journalism.
My quote: "Capitalism will cease as a functionong economic system when everyone in it suspects every one else of trying to cheat them until there is no one left to cheat."
I so believe that it is more a system of crook production than anything else, ever increasing, to the point where it can no longer effectively function economically and will be gridlocked due to paranoia.
Then we can go back to being hunters, gatherers, and self-sufficient farmers, which I am not so sure we ever should have stopped in order to become capitalists.
It is yourself who is looking at him with a very colored lens.
On Jan 07 01:53 PM Skjellifetti wrote:
> Farber's world view admits no shades of grey. A mixed economy such
> as we have today and which has given the world one of the greatest
> economic growth stories in human history is not acknowledged as a
> legitimate choice.You are either capitalist or communist.
>
> Farber's world view allows but a single cause for our current mess.
> The fact that many shady mortgage lenders chose to make risky loans
> to underdocumented and poor risk borrowers or that many borrowers
> chose to leverage their homes to the maximum extent possible based
> on the hype that home prices would grow forever at a 20% rate is
> not possible in his world. Nope, it was all the governments fault.
>
>
> Farber's world view has no room for compassion. Does he think that
> those people in Detroit who have worked hard and saved all their
> lives but have now lost their jobs and are in danger of losing their
> homes and healthcare and everything else as a result of the poor
> choices made by others should be left to their own devices? Why not,
> he is still rich. Why should he care?
>
> Farber may be a great investor, but I would never let such a narrow
> minded ideologue make social policy for the rest of us.
Mr.s Faber's approach would likely lead to a deflation spiral in which people spend less causing companies earnings to shrink causing more job losses causing people to spend less... an ugly, long lasting cycle.
Mr. Faber sounds good and he has been a keen observer of economic bubbles around the world, but his theory about capitalism needing to be free of what he calls "government intervention" is nonsense. This stimulus package will provide not only jobs and start to rebuild the the country's infrastructure which is in great need of repair, but also make the economy more efficient through better technology, better schools, less expensive energy, new research and discoveries. The benefits of the stimulus will be real and long-lasting. They will provide a much stronger foundation for economic growth after this downturn. This country has been given the wake-up call it needs to finally get to work re-building the country. Instead of a disaster as Mr. Faber would describe it, the stimulus plan will be a true blessing to everyone in the country and the world. The U.S. economy leads the world economy and it will lead the way out of this world-wide recession.
On Jan 08 11:33 AM bobbobwhite wrote:
> On Faber: Notice how whenever the economic cycle moves in another
> direction there is always a new guru or three to say that he called
> it?
>
> My quote: "Capitalism will cease as a functionong economic system
> when everyone in it suspects every one else of trying to cheat them
> until there is no one left to cheat."
>
> I so believe that it is more a system of crook production than anything
> else, ever increasing, to the point where it can no longer effectively
> function economically and will be gridlocked due to paranoia. <br/>
>
> Then we can go back to being hunters, gatherers, and self-sufficient
> farmers, which I am not so sure we ever should have stopped in order
> to become capitalists.
>
If much of what these guys (Peter Shiff, et.al) tell you comes true, do you really think the investments like gold, etc will be worth anything?
First of all, I do believe that the United States and our economy will fail. There is no way the Obama administration can prop this economy up unless they spent $1trillion a month for a decade or more (that is just about the levels of loss that is going on right now). You won't be able to live on hope.
Buy gold? You'd be richer with canned food, firearms and ammunition. In the not too distant future, that's what you'll really NEED. That is where the DEMAND will be.
I went to a couple of box stores today. Nobody and I mean there was NOBODY in them. It was sorta spooky, but it tells me that things are going to spiral down rather quickly.
Be ready.
> observer without any ideological bias. His past comments and
> recommendations included China, Vietnam, countries newly emerging
> and still nominally communist.
No. Farber's INVESTMENT advice is non-ideological in the sense that he goes wherever he believes the returns are highest. But his GOV'T POLICY advice is decidedly Libertarian and therefore highly ideological. Like most ideologues, you are either with him or against him, there is no in between.
> It is yourself who is looking at him with a very colored lens.
Perhaps. While I am sympathetic to many aspects of Libertarianism, I find much of the philosophy and its proponents to be stuck in 1776 as if the world has been technically, economically, and environmentally static for the past 233 years.
My research tells me you're right on the money . It's going to be a lot worse than the bubblevision viewers believe. I don't believe Marc Faber paints things as gloomy enough due both to his ability to make money whether things are going up or down and his desire to get lots of business enhancing face time on CNBC. You know, the old 'buy when there's blood in the streets' approach for the down side. Pick the bones clean by buying that foreclosure cheap after the mortgagee has been stripped of the house. At least Marc states the futility of the bailouts, even though he know's that all that money thrown into the game has a better chance of ultimately ending up in his bank account than someone elses. The esteemed Warren Buffet on the other hand, encourages the bailout process, also knowing full well he will cream off (has already) a fortune from bailout dollars to add to his existing fortune.
Mr. Faber makes some false statements:
Individuals are not communist, socialist, or capitalistic - Societies/Governments/... are. Individuals do not create the system, they live in it. They may disagree or agree with it.
Many people are lazy and will mooch what they can no matter what. Many people are hard working and will do what they can no matter what. Many people are dishonest and will try to make money any way they can at the expense of anyone. Many people are honest and will try to make money honestly and provide opportunities for others. None of this has anything to do with communism, socialism, or capitalism.
Here Mr. Faber says he would tell worker in Detroit that the Government caused him to lose his home. Completely false and very populist type statement. While the government certainly created an environment that encouraged this whole mess. The government did not sign the contract.
On Jan 08 04:41 PM curbs-in wrote:
> Marc Farber, sadly, is not gloomy enough.
>
> If much of what these guys (Peter Shiff, et.al) tell you comes true,
> do you really think the investments like gold, etc will be worth
> anything?
>
> First of all, I do believe that the United States and our economy
> will fail. There is no way the Obama administration can prop this
> economy up unless they spent $1trillion a month for a decade or more
> (that is just about the levels of loss that is going on right now).
> You won't be able to live on hope.
>
> Buy gold? You'd be richer with canned food, firearms and ammunition.
> In the not too distant future, that's what you'll really NEED. That
> is where the DEMAND will be.
>
> I went to a couple of box stores today. Nobody and I mean there
> was NOBODY in them. It was sorta spooky, but it tells me that things
> are going to spiral down rather quickly.
>
> Be ready.
I am reminded of a quote by Benjamin Franklin: 'Democracy can be likened to 2 wolves and 1 lamb voting on what to have for lunch'. People also vote with their dollars and credit debt, and the falling house of cards we're living through now is primarily the result of enough wolves voting to get something for nothing.
As for the hypothetical foreclosure victim in Detroit- Caveat Emptor & Cui Bono- for lenders and for employers and unions.
On Jan 08 05:06 PM bricki wrote:
> Man it must be near a bottom. I haven't heard so much doom and gloom
> since the early 80's.
>
I see already, the need to receive deeper correction --ourselves. We fiddled while Rome burned. Had bread and circuses.
Fiat $ selfishness always dies hard. Generosity of spirit is our saving grace. Together we can do what alone we cannot.
i have another theory on the demise of the domestic auto industry. it has the most ignorant managers in american industry next to the commercial and investment banking business.
On Jan 08 01:37 PM jrs87sch wrote:
> Don't forget that the UNIONS played a huge part in the demise of
> the auto industry.
OTC ( over the counter ) trading must be closed alltogether or regulated in the same way as excanges are, on the exchane like NYSE,NYMEX,ICE,CBOT,EU... or just any you can think of there is margin requirements, clearing, oversight by SEC, CFTC, NFA and then brokers look at their customer account to comply with all that.
OTC platforms are founded by biggest investmant banks that in the first place lend money to investors and then require the same investors to trade on their trading platforms.
It is not regulated, it is the biggest roulette table ever founded with huge risk as there is actually no margin requirements, only volume of few hundred trillion $$$.
Now think if any fund with 1 mln $ would be allowed to trade 200-500 mln $ of Crude Oil, Gold, Coffee, IBM, Wheat, GE, Sugar on one of the following above shown exchanges - of course not.
On OTC it is all welcome, as the contracts traded are not cleared or priced in real time like on the regulated exchange, those trades are reflection of a mix of assets like price of houses, price of Crude Oil, Treasury Bonds even the value of insurance to insure a 100 mln $ yacht against sinking or some person getting cancer at the age of 40.
I am not kidding here, this is the fact that, as Mr.Buffett called OTC markets a WMD weapon of mass destruction, how come a hedge fund with 1-2 mln $ of assets to insure UBS Bank or GM debt in size of 500 mln $ against default in 10 years time.Any investor or hedge fund could do it on OTC, just pay a commission to a bank that will sell you insurance on any debt and you are welcome.
CLOSE ALL OTC TRADING PLATFORMS NOW!!!
On Jan 07 01:36 PM Chris B wrote:
> basehitz,
>
> I agree. CNBC is a contrarian, backwards-looking indicator. The only
> people they show are the ones whose investment styles have been in
> style and are about to go out of style.
Anyway, although your philosophy is paying off at present, I doubt you'll be in good shape several years from now and you'll return to being the sap that didn't know enough to buy fixed rate debt so inflation would work for instead of against him. There is intervention in the economy - that means it's not going to be market-based, sensible and certainly not ethical. These guys have ALWAYS tilted against the saver and even though the saver is having his day right now, it's going to be very brief. THE WHOLE SYSTEM IS BASED ON DEBT.
On Jan 07 08:27 AM whisperonthewind wrote:
> We can blame others (governments, banks, big oil, etc.) until the
> skies turn polka-dotted, but at some point we have to accept responsibility
> for the things we each do for ourselves and TO ourselves. WE the
> users went for those adjustable rate mortgages. WE believed the
> hype. WE didn't pay the mortgage. WE lost those houses/cars/boats.
> The government here is such that it makes things available, but no
> one forced anyone to sign the papers. WE did that. WE refused to
> read the papers. WE refused to do the math. WE refused to ask the
> loan-makers to show us the numbers on paper. WE refused to listen
> when the interest rates were going up. And WE liked it, because
> our house values were going up at the same time. WE wanted higher
> values for our houses because we knew it would make us rich when
> we sold to some poor sucker. The blame lies with each of us that
> made those stupid mistakes.
>
> I've been criticized by friends for living in a cheap apartment,
> not buying new furniture, not buying a new car, not taking that second
> credit card, not buying new clothes. But now, my rent is affordable,
> my heat is free, my lights are cheap, my car is paid off, my credit
> card carries a balance that will be paid off next week, and my furniture
> and clothes are still just as good as they were. I won't have a
> house to leave to my kids (and they won't have to try to sell it),
> but I will have money. The funny thing about money is that kids
> young and old like it. And they like it more than Aunt Gerda's antimacassar
> and Uncle Herb's rickety rocking chair.
>
> As a nation, as independent and FREE thinkers, we need to begin to
> take responsibility for our OWN actions, we need to stop whining
> and blaming everything else for what we have brought on ourselves.
> Housing bubble or not, global warming or not, it isn't important
> if WE don't take responsibility for ourselves. I'm tired of listening
> to everyone place blame.
How is the world trying to fix the problem? More credit.
Is it not analagis to someone who already has a large debt load and is having trouble meeting its debt servicing and they fix the problem by going to another bank to borrow more money to service the debt they already have.
Am I missing something here, or is this not completly insane?
Are we not just postponing the inevitable?
Who is kidding who, lets face it folks, bottom line, the whole world economy is a giant pyramid/ponzi scheme.
However, The socialist Democrats were pushing poor people to buy houses they could not afford and told them NOT to worry about it. THAT is at the center of the global crisis. Socialist Democrat congress meddlers in a capitalist economy. They just don't understand it. That is what caused this problem.
Now, Americans have been sold another lie that Obama can solve the problems that the Socialist Democrats in Congress caused by electing a Socialist Democrat President to help KILL American Liberty and Private Businesses.
America will now join the ranks of European Godless socialism.
This will bode very badly for the entire world.
On Jan 07 08:54 AM Vienna wrote:
> whisperonthewind
>
> Very great. I am from Europe and always being told that I am a communist
> or so.
>
> But take the article above, YOU USA complain more about government
> and less about your own actions as the people in the former communist
> states do.
The banks and regulators who primarily caused this are being given more money and power. That is also a crime.
On Jan 07 08:27 AM whisperonthewind wrote:
> We can blame others (governments, banks, big oil, etc.) until the
> skies turn polka-dotted, but at some point we have to accept responsibility
> for the things we each do for ourselves and TO ourselves. WE the
> users went for those adjustable rate mortgages. WE believed the hype.
> WE didn't pay the mortgage. WE lost those houses/cars/boats. The
> government here is such that it makes things available, but no one
> forced anyone to sign the papers. WE did that. WE refused to read
> the papers. WE refused to do the math. WE refused to ask the loan-makers
> to show us the numbers on paper. WE refused to listen when the interest
> rates were going up. And WE liked it, because our house values were
> going up at the same time. WE wanted higher values for our houses
> because we knew it would make us rich when we sold to some poor sucker.
> The blame lies with each of us that made those stupid mistakes.<br/>
>
> I've been criticized by friends for living in a cheap apartment,
> not buying new furniture, not buying a new car, not taking that second
> credit card, not buying new clothes. But now, my rent is affordable,
> my heat is free, my lights are cheap, my car is paid off, my credit
> card carries a balance that will be paid off next week, and my furniture
> and clothes are still just as good as they were. I won't have a house
> to leave to my kids (and they won't have to try to sell it), but
> I will have money. The funny thing about money is that kids young
> and old like it. And they like it more than Aunt Gerda's antimacassar
> and Uncle Herb's rickety rocking chair.
>
> As a nation, as independent and FREE thinkers, we need to begin to
> take responsibility for our OWN actions, we need to stop whining
> and blaming everything else for what we have brought on ourselves.
> Housing bubble or not, global warming or not, it isn't important
> if WE don't take responsibility for ourselves. I'm tired of listening
> to everyone place blame.
Blaming the common man for this mess is partially correct, if you can blame him for being uneducated and doing nothing about his ignorance. But everyone who just listened to this interview is a dope too, becuase he is only giving you half the picture. Failing to understand that salaries wouldn't continue to rise because Bush started to funnel money to the rich, not reading the mortagage details because you thought your bank was looking for out for you, the list goes on and it is truly unfortunate for Joe Blow to have let this happen to himself. But to let the SEC off the hook for allowing naked shorting, Congress allowing the credit default swap market become so huge with no regulation, Greenspan dropping rates with no consideration to the risk it would create, removal of antimonoply laws despite what we learned from the Great Depression...give me a break, the list is huge. The elite group of people who have control over the nations finances are greedy idiots and they bear the biggest amount of responsibility for this.
Blaming Joe Dummy because he bought a house he couldn't afford was simply the straw on the camel's back. The banks had already over leveraged themselves to Depression levels and bought debt that wasn't rated properly because the whole system is corrupt. Faber is yet another chamion of half truths - just what we need.
I'm calling a Civil War beacuse the government has endorsed crime for far too long. I predict we will revisit a technologically enhanced 1862 before this is over but I hope I'm wrong.
To prevent this: ARREST THE FELONS AND CONFISCATE THEIR ASSETS IMMEDIATELY BEFORE THIS DEVOLOPS ANY FURTHER (instead of "stimulating" them). Again, the civil war ensues because the people in charge of doing the arresting are in fact the ones who need to be arrested, because of this, it will never happen. One more point, the Brainwashing Bubble will pop too and suddenly 80 years of Manufactured Consent Science (advertising) goes poof as the pent up realism becomes unleashed.
On Jan 07 08:27 AM whisperonthewind wrote:
> We can blame others (governments, banks, big oil, etc.) until the
> skies turn polka-dotted, but at some point we have to accept responsibility
> for the things we each do for ourselves and TO ourselves. WE the
> users went for those adjustable rate mortgages. WE believed the
> hype. WE didn't pay the mortgage. WE lost those houses/cars/boats.
> The government here is such that it makes things available, but no
> one forced anyone to sign the papers. WE did that. WE refused to
> read the papers. WE refused to do the math. WE refused to ask the
> loan-makers to show us the numbers on paper. WE refused to listen
> when the interest rates were going up. And WE liked it, because
> our house values were going up at the same time. WE wanted higher
> values for our houses because we knew it would make us rich when
> we sold to some poor sucker. The blame lies with each of us that
> made those stupid mistakes.
>
> I've been criticized by friends for living in a cheap apartment,
> not buying new furniture, not buying a new car, not taking that second
> credit card, not buying new clothes. But now, my rent is affordable,
> my heat is free, my lights are cheap, my car is paid off, my credit
> card carries a balance that will be paid off next week, and my furniture
> and clothes are still just as good as they were. I won't have a
> house to leave to my kids (and they won't have to try to sell it),
> but I will have money. The funny thing about money is that kids
> young and old like it. And they like it more than Aunt Gerda's antimacassar
> and Uncle Herb's rickety rocking chair.
>
> As a nation, as independent and FREE thinkers, we need to begin to
> take responsibility for our OWN actions, we need to stop whining
> and blaming everything else for what we have brought on ourselves.
> Housing bubble or not, global warming or not, it isn't important
> if WE don't take responsibility for ourselves. I'm tired of listening
> to everyone place blame.
yottabyte data base has us all in it's blinking recognition box crosshairs. Well, not yet but...
online.barrons.com/art...
For those who don't, a partial list of his Longs were:
proshares short midcap 400
Gold
Silver
Yen
some S.E. Asian stocks (no China)
Shorts included:
30 yr U.S. Bonds
iShares DJ U.S. broker/dealer Index fund
On Jan 07 07:23 PM Cem Unal wrote:
> Can anybody understand of which Swiss Stock he is talking ?
> Thx
----------------------...
>"What is this "we"? I had the opportunity to get a large second mortgage on >my home at a cheap rate. I thought about it and finished paying of the home >instead. Over 2007-8 I got everything paid off because I didn/t think those >upside down interest rates portended good. Now here I am not owing anyone >anything.
On Jan 07 11:28 AM bearfund wrote:
> Simmons: I would suggest that shorting the debt of the world's reigning
> empire (whoever it is at the time) against gold is probably the most
> profitable risk-free trade available. Anyone with the ability to
> wait decades or centuries for a certain payoff should be positioned
> this way. No one can be sure exactly when the payoff will come,
> but it always will. Empires just don't last.
In the meantime, none of the gold bugs are really thinking this through. When the apocolypse comes what are you going to do with all your gold?
How will you protect it from being stolen by theives? How will you transport it? How will you leave it alone to go elsewhere? How will you protect your family from being kidnapped and ransomed for your gold?
How will you use it as money - chip off little pieces and then weigh them? Imagine going to the grocery store to get a loaf of bread and taking your gold bar with you. If this is how it will work, then the winners will be anyone with a scale and a smelter.
At the end of the day you will end up using most of your gold to hire protection and buy guns. Of course to pay for all that, well see the problems above.
Gold is nothing more than a short term (read day trader) trading strategy based on the same Wall Street con game as every other financial product. It is not the ultimate answer.
On Jan 10 04:07 PM Dave Wrixon wrote:
> And neither do money systems. Gold backed money is an arcane idea.
> If it weren't then Gold would be about $5K an ounce today.
Focus on beaten down issues or market leaders that will emerge unimpaired as Jim Rogers also says. The world will continue to need base metals, food, oil, coal, bulk cargo shippers, semiconductors, etc. Be selective. Pay attention to timing, market psychology, Government and banking actions as well as stock-picking fundamentals. Stay on top of the news. In other words, it's still a battle for investment survival out there as it always has been.
My one word of caution is that although Asian market prices are tempting, beware of individual stocks. Stick with funds, ETFs, and companies with excellent reputations. As corrupt as individual American companies can be, foreign companies can be even worse and even less transparent.
My worst losses in the market have been complete blindsides by individual companies hiding bad news. Intel may be OK, but below that level, due diligence may not be enough.
Thanks again CNBC for the grreat tickers!
Rikiki
Some of their data is flashed fast, no resources shown or footnoted and the constant ego in fighting makes CNBC a limited source. Kudlow is FUN and is showing some of the GREENSPAN SYMPTOMS- BABBLE TALK- recommend ARICEPT....OLD AGE IS CREEPING into all of us actually.
RESEARCH YOUR INVESTMENTS; it is alot of hard work but you control your FUTURE ...but this mess blind sided me because MEGA MEDIA TV WAS CAUGHT BY REALITY AND DID NOT REPORT IT .
NOW FOR INVESTMENTS: LONG VALERO,COP, DNN, ALCOA, CAT, SHAW GROUP,GG,CVS AND OTHERS ALL BOUGHT ON MAJOR DROPS AND NORFOLK SOUTHERN.
Work hard at your career and enjoy family and hopefully you have a HOME to ENJOY and hang on to cash in 2009.
DIEGOJAMES
NORTHRIDGE, CALIFORNIA
On Jan 07 01:36 PM Chris B wrote:
> basehitz,
>
> I agree. CNBC is a contrarian, backwards-looking indicator. The only
> people they show are the ones whose investment styles have been in
> style and are about to go out of style.
On Jan 07 01:53 PM Skjellifetti wrote:
> Farber's world view admits no shades of grey. A mixed economy such
> as we have today and which has given the world one of the greatest
> economic growth stories in human history is not acknowledged as a
> legitimate choice.You are either capitalist or communist.
>
> Farber's world view allows but a single cause for our current mess.
> The fact that many shady mortgage lenders chose to make risky loans
> to underdocumented and poor risk borrowers or that many borrowers
> chose to leverage their homes to the maximum extent possible based
> on the hype that home prices would grow forever at a 20% rate is
> not possible in his world. Nope, it was all the governments fault.
>
>
> Farber's world view has no room for compassion. Does he think that
> those people in Detroit who have worked hard and saved all their
> lives but have now lost their jobs and are in danger of losing their
> homes and healthcare and everything else as a result of the poor
> choices made by others should be left to their own devices? Why not,
> he is still rich. Why should he care?
>
> Farber may be a great investor, but I would never let such a narrow
> minded ideologue make social policy for the rest of us.
The only problem with people like Mr Faber is that they don't understand POLITICAL economics they just know what works. Keynes understood I think that economics was one part science and one part politics.
Kings, Goldcorp bite into rich 'donut'
Kings Minerals, as well as Cerro Del Gallo regarding past intercepts, location and size of the deposit. The deposit starts at surface and is open at depth. There are 3 geological domains present which may or may not be included in the mine plan. Based on the previous history of management. PJO, BOLNISI ect....Kings Minerals are conservative miners and look at the big picture and have been working at San Anton since 2004.
www.miningnews.net/sto...
Managing director Dudley Leitch said the company had previously thought the gold-rich zone was discontinuous, but these results indicated otherwise.
"We now believe that the gold zone extends right around the central felsic intrusion," he said. "That makes it pretty significant.
"The annulus is basically like a circular zone or donut. In the middle is the core, which is a granitic-type of material and surrounding that, roughly 80m wide, is the part of the donut that you eat and it goes right around this intrusion. The distance from one side of the donut to the other is roughly a kilometre north-south and east-west so it's a big feature."
Leitch added that the centre of the annulus might yet warrant mining itself.
"We may well take the whole thing, not just the annulus," he said.
"There's enough evidence to suggest that the core part of the donut is reasonably well mineralised."
Meanwhile, drilling at Cerro del Gallo continues to focus on the annulus, with a view to obtaining further samples for metallurgical test work and better defining the resource.
The project currently contains a known resource of 165Mt at 0.5gpt gold, 16gpt silver and 0.12% copper at a cut-off grade of 0.8gpt gold equivalent. According to Kings, however, the system remains open laterally and at depth.
Following the completion of a scoping study by Intermet Engineering earlier this year, the joint venture partners put a $US265 million ($A351.8 million) price tag on the development of an openpit mine at Cerro del Gallo.
The proposed operation would have an initial lifespan of 11 years and produce more than 180,000 ounces of gold, 6.1 million ounces of silver and 14,000t of copper per year.
Brisbane-based Kings holds a 51% stake in Cerro del Gallo, while Goldcorp, the Canadian gold miner that is the most profitable in the world, owns the remaining stake.
KINGS Minerals and Goldcorp have been buoyed by results from drilling at their jointly owned Cerro del Gallo gold-silver-copper project in Mexico that they say suggest the continuity of a gold-rich annulus, or "donut"-shaped feature, within the wider mineralised system.
ASX-listed Kings released the results to the market yesterday, highlighting in particular holes returning intervals of 145.8m grading 1.51 grams of gold per tonne, 12gpt of silver and 0.08% copper (1.89gpt gold equivalent) from 12.2m; 302.9m at 0.69gpt gold, 10gpt silver and 0.1% copper (1.09gpt gold equivalent) from 3.1m; and 111.25m at 1.17gpt gold, 4gpt silver and 0.04% copper (1.33gpt gold equivalent) from surface.
----------------------...
Resource Category Tonnes Au Ag Cu Au Ag Cu
millions g/t g/t % Moz Moz Mlbs
______________________...
Gold Domain
----------------------...
Measured 129 0.54 12 0.09 2.2 50 250
----------------------...
Indicated 80 0.38 8 0.08 1.0 21 140
----------------------...
Meas/Indicated 209 0.48 11 0.08 3.2 71 391
----------------------...
To date, two main phases of preliminary metallurgical work have been completed. The flotation test work indicates that copper can be recovered to a saleable grade concentrate from the Copper and Gold Zone material. At the same time, results from the leach test work indicates that gold is readily recoverable using a cyanide leach process with good kinetics.
In 2007, Golder Associates carried out a series of pit optimization studies which indicate that potential pits already contain a significant resource and have a very low strip ratio of 0.44. Preliminary metallurgical recoveries were assumed at 80% for gold and silver, and 85% for copper.
Work has also commenced on some of the other higher grade exploration targets elsewhere on the San Anton Property. The main target is the Carmen-Providencia vein system, a north-northwest trending low sulphidation epithermal silver-gold system located approximately two kilometers west of Cerro del Gallo and traceable on surface for three kilometers. First pass drilling designed to test the upper levels of the epithermal vein systems is now completed with encouraging results from the Dolores and Empalizada prospects including 4.6m grading 428g/t Ag and 3.52g/t Au, 1.5m grading 590g/t Ag and 3.40g/t Au, and 7.6m grading 168g/t Ag and 1.51g/t Au.
www.321gold.com/editor...
www.safehaven.com/show...
jsmineset.com/index.ph.../
farber is over rated
On Jan 07 01:53 PM Skjellifetti wrote:
> Farber's world view admits no shades of grey. A mixed economy such
> as we have today and which has given the world one of the greatest
> economic growth stories in human history is not acknowledged as a
> legitimate choice.You are either capitalist or communist.
>
> Farber's world view allows but a single cause for our current mess.
> The fact that many shady mortgage lenders chose to make risky loans
> to underdocumented and poor risk borrowers or that many borrowers
> chose to leverage their homes to the maximum extent possible based
> on the hype that home prices would grow forever at a 20% rate is
> not possible in his world. Nope, it was all the governments fault.
>
>
> Farber's world view has no room for compassion. Does he think that
> those people in Detroit who have worked hard and saved all their
> lives but have now lost their jobs and are in danger of losing their
> homes and healthcare and everything else as a result of the poor
> choices made by others should be left to their own devices? Why not,
> he is still rich. Why should he care?
>
> Farber may be a great investor, but I would never let such a narrow
> minded ideologue make social policy for the rest of us.