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Sapient Corporation (NASDAQ:SAPE)

February 13, 2013 5:40 pm ET

Executives

Alan J. Herrick - Co-Chairman of the Board, Chief Executive Officer and President

Joseph S. Tibbetts - Chief Financial Officer, Senior Vice President and Managing Director of Asia Pacific

Analysts

Paul B. Thomas - Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Research Division

Paul B. Thomas - Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Research Division

All right. We'll go ahead and get started. I'm Paul Thomas, from the IT services team here at Goldman Sachs. And with us today here, we're fortunate to have Sapient's management team: CEO, Alan Herrick; and CFO, Joe Tibbetts.

And I guess, maybe to start things off, we'll get some context for those that might be new to the story. One of you can just walk us through the major segments: SapientNitro, Global Markets and Government Services. And then kind of give us a feel for what are the key markets. And how much of your business each one of those makes up?

Alan J. Herrick

Sure. So maybe I'll start small to large. So we have a Government Services business, about 5% of revenues. So business, in 2012, was $1.1 billion and a little change. Government Services was about 5%, and it's a business that's focused on things around health and communications, as it relates to government and citizens. Our next business is really Sapient Global Markets, about 25% of revenue. It's really focused on financial and energy companies, and anything around, really, commodities, trading or logistics movement around commodities. I mean, I'll give you a little more color on that, but financial and energy companies. And then our largest business, about 70% or 69% and change, is SapientNitro, which really sits at the intersection of marketing and technology. And it's really taken advantage of the shift to digital and how companies think about their brands, their experiences, as well as their technology platforms overall as they look at how they actually operate a successful omni-channel business in the future. And it ranges from retail clients to consumer products companies to travel clients, from Visit Florida to a Vail, to Chrysler to many, many others, to give you some sense.

Paul B. Thomas - Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Research Division

So we'll focus a little bit on SapientNitro. Can you talk about the evolution of -- I guess, go back to the 2009 acquisition of Nitro. In the last several years you've seen good growth. In 2010 and 2011, 27% and 33%, respectively. So we'll start with the history of it and then, I guess, we'll go into the outlook there afterwards.

Alan J. Herrick

Great. So we -- for several years operated a business called Sapient Interactive, which really focused on digital marketing and technology. As we saw that marketplace expand, change, transform, we thought it was very important to make sure that you had emotional creative skills, as well as digital creative skills, as well as the know-how around how you build platforms and technology, whether you're building iPhone apps, mobile, you're building commerce platforms or asset management content platforms for marketers. So we really made the Nitro acquisition in '09 to really expand the emotional connection to consumers, and how you might think about film or television as it relates to kind of an omni-channel communications and commerce approach. So very successful with that. Coming out of '09, obviously, put up probably much better growth than we were even trying to put up. In '10 and '11, high 20s to 30. In '12, we put up 13% growth overall, in what for us was a choppier market, definitely, and some uncertainty around spending in the back half of the year. But I guess at the top level of the thesis is much the same for us. We think clients are just really beginning to understand the amount of change that's associated with a digital consumer, and a change in consumer that's really interacting with products and sites and experiences in any way they see fit, at any time they see fit. So if you're thinking about a marketer today or a retailer about, how do I really get at this changing consumer? How do I get at the millennials who don't spend much time in front of the television, frankly? Don't have a strong association with many of the brands in the past. So how do very powerful brands recast themselves in a way in which they can communicate successfully, build their brand advocacy, grow their sales base, grow their customers. And we've seen, obviously, a lot of momentum in that and a lot of strategic thinking in '12 about how clients really build into this future.

Paul B. Thomas - Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Research Division

And to kind of build on that, you've talked in the past about multichannel, multi-commerce opportunities, and recently, more about omni-channel. So how have you seen those manifest themselves in Nitro's business and opportunities for you guys?

Alan J. Herrick

And I -- well, we see a lot of -- if you look at, I guess, SapientNitro overall, there's really 4 things that we're really building into omni-channel. And if you just think about omni-channels as a word and how people think about -- how you do you build a retail business that's omni-channeled versus oh, we need to do some digital business, we need an online store, right? The thinking has really evolved. So we really think, to be successful, when we talk to our clients in omni-channel, we have an approach we call Storyscaping. And if you look at the old world of communications and advertising agencies, it was about telling your -- it's always been about telling your story, right? But it's about telling your story through film and through 30-second spots and doing it very emotionally. If you look at today's world, the contrast that you do a search on Expedia, and your brand is reduced to logo, about that big, and all your brand marketing is reduced to a price and logo about this big. That -- if you're one of the companies being listed there, is bad for you, right? So what our clients and marketers are trying to do is figure out how do they successfully communicate. So our approach in Storyscaping is to say, "Look, you really need to look across the horizon of experiences that you're going to have with the consumer and that needs to be designed. There needs to be a design ecosystem." So film plays a role, television plays a role, online film plays a role, interactive film plays a role. But all kinds of experiences play a role. How you interact in the store plays a role. How you interact on the iPad or especially mobile plays a role. What happens in your living room plays a role. And you need to knit those experiences and those brand messages together. And also, by the way, as we tell our clients, now consumers expect to be interactive with the brand, they expect to be able to make suggestions, have input and they expect to be participatory throughout the process, right? So if you think about television in the old days, right, not only could you put your story together in 30 seconds, that was your story and that's it, that's it. Well, now, if your story isn't genuine and authentic to what you're trying to market and what you're trying to sell, social media and participatory consumers will obviously rise to the occasion to point that out to many more in a very amplified way across social media. So coming back to Storyscaping, what we really suggest to clients, if you look at your brand strategy, you look at your experiential strategy and you look at how you tell your stories across devices, spaces, times, moments and also for different things. You're researching information versus you're trying to consume and you need a coherent strategy. And then underneath the Storyscape, you actually have to build technology and systems to interact. If part of your brand communication is a kiosk in a store or a magic mirror in the retail environment that recognizes the clothing that you're wearing and matches it, or something on iPhone app that all needs technology infrastructure to support it. So what we would simply say is, "In the world of Storyscaping, it is about building worlds that your consumers can interact with." And think about the brands that you interact with, whether it's fashion or cars, it's about interacting in the worlds that they need to build for you versus one-way communication. So we would say, "We build worlds not ads." And that's the way we think our clients need to think. You need to construct worlds of experiences that allow you to communicate and build your brand and allow consumers to purchase from you, extend their relationship and be loyal consumers, and you need huge technology ecosystems to allow that to happen across the world.

Paul B. Thomas - Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Research Division

So you touched on the different channels there, television and online. How do you guys compete with obviously the larger players that are either specialized or global in those markets? What strength do you have that you take to the market to compete with them?

Alan J. Herrick

So it's varies situationally there. Because I think what's happening -- you've got such a massive shift of marketing dollars, right? This is a kind of thing you see once every 50 years where everything you've known about marketing is now changing, right? And you're still very early on if you kind of track the genesis of these digital turns [ph]. Because people started to talk about it, oh, there's page search and there's digital media and then there's digital channels and there's onlines, but it's not that. The consumer is digital and that's how people have to think about it. So I think there's a lot of change ahead of us in this. And when you think about our value proposition, how we're different from -- for clients, it's really about what we talked about, Storyscaping. If you can knit brand, experience and then commerce and technology into one consistent strategy, that you understand if you do this, you get a better outcome, that's insanely valuable to clients. What we might also talk about is your knitting together emotional power that you get from brands, right? The strongest brands are emotional, right? Consumers buy because of an emotional connection not because of a rational connection, or everybody would drink tap water and everybody would drive the cheapest car, right? The world isn't that way. So being able to bring emotional creative power, real technology power is very differentiating against the competitive set. If you look at the competitive set, which is eclectic for us because of the size of the theses in our approach, somebody might bring us in to say, "Look, we need a better brand strategy, we need to be more effective with the changing consumer. How do we think about our brands socially? How do we think about our brand on television? Do we need an app? Don't we need an app? Does mobile play a role?" And a million different questions in that arena. We might often be competing with creative agencies, that might be Saatchi & Saatchi's, that might be Wieden + Kennedy's, but agencies that have a history around strength and emotional marketing. However, there's an assumption that it starts with television. We think that assumption is wrong, that television, film should play whatever role they ought to play to drive the advocacy and the growth of that brand and it really should start strategically. And how you use television or film or interactive means or digital marketing or experiences in-store, in-venue, should be chosen. So the ability to bring together digital thinking and then brand thinking is a huge differentiator against the agencies. And what we'll see often is, we had to compete recently where we're competing with 5 agencies, put together as a package, in a holding company. And because they had to try to go from digital to social to real creative services, all the way through to a little bit of technology, right? So our ability to do that is helpful. But the real strategic differentiator is we can knit the Storyscape together and say look, "If you're a CEO right now and say, 'We're doing this. We're doing this. We're doing this.' But what we really want to be doing is growing the revenue line and it doesn't seem to be working." So if we can come in and actually help them make sense of everything that they're trying to accomplish in all the different digital channels. What do you do with your stores? How do you make them relevant and give them a path for the future that drives revenue? That's where we can really make a difference that's hard for the agencies to compete with. And then we will bump into the heavier lifting things, like when we do big commerce. So a lot of clients are focused on -- we need a stronger consumer ecosystem to make it easier for them to purchase things more often. And that might involve content and commerce and hardcore technology work, we might bump into some of the large Western consultancies. But our real advantage against the large Western consultancies who do lots of things well is, we have the marketing know-how and we have the emotional know-how to say, "How do you build this for brand in order to drive conversion to be higher, and therefore, drive your sales growth, is one of the reasons you should think about choosing us and not somebody that just gets the technology." The day you go live, all you've done is get a technology live. So what do you do for the next 2 years when you're really focused on how do you drive sales of x.com from one level to another. Well, that's about marketing, it's about brand, it's about promotional tactics. It's about the interplay between what happens in the stores and what happens in the online channels. So being strategically set at that level really helps us. So the creative and marketing chops help us against Western technology companies that might compete on the technology bits and then that the technology bits helps us a lot of this agencies. But just having the integrated thinking is the biggest differentiator where we can say, "We can really help you make sense of the massive amount of change your business under."

Paul B. Thomas - Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Research Division

So maybe getting back to the outlook for SapientNitro. You talked about 2012 was 13% constant currency growth. And you guys reported yesterday and guided for 10% growth next year. How do we think about SapientNitro in that mix? And then with the sort of the horizon as we see it right now with all the potential how do we think about the growth in the forward years from that?

Alan J. Herrick

Yes, I think for us -- so Sapient Nitro did 13% in '12, as you said, but Sapient did 10%. So we guided Sapient to 10% or 9%, 8%. So we did Sapient -- we guided Sapient to 10% for 2013, we didn't guide or don't guide the segments between the 3 business units. But if you look -- the way we simply thought about it is, 2012 turned out choppier than we thought, especially in the back half for us. We think that's largely to do with the uncertainty around elections, tax rates. But essentially, some of our executives in the companies that we work with said, "We're worried about a pullback in consumer spending. We're a little hesitant to start capital spending other things," right? So we, at least for Sapient, saw some tightening in the second half of the year and gave us kind of some good chop through the year. So we said, in that kind of muddy environment, we're able to put up 10% growth. We'll see how '13 plays out. But we say, "Well, '13 could be a little better, but it could be as kind of as muddy as it was last year, let's see what happens with the economy and what happens with how our U.S. government handles the economy. But essentially, we think we did 10% in a pretty tough market. So we think we'll be able to do at least that, if not a little better. And if the environment improves, we certainly think we could do better, right? So it's not a comment on how we think about the long-term growth of Sapient or SapientNitro, but it is comment that we think we can do 10% in what's been a fairly muddy environment.

Paul B. Thomas - Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Research Division

All right. Shifting over to Global Markets, where you're focused on investment banking and commodities. Can you speak to more recent successes here in that segment? I guess, beginning of last year, was it more a difficult time and through the year business picked up? Can you kind us walk us through the turnaround you saw there?

Alan J. Herrick

Yes, Global Markets has put up some tremendous growth rates over the last few years equivalent to SapientNitro, high 20s and 30s. But coming out of some of the crisis around investment banking in '09, we definitely saw a lot of pressure in investment banking. So as we -- in the back half -- and then I guess, as we got into, I guess, mid '11 or so, we started to really see a decline investment banks. So there's 4 sectors. There's investment banks, asset managers, energy companies and then there's governments or intermediaries, are the 4 different sectors they work for. But largely speaking, everything grew fine except for investment banks, which were under huge stress. So essentially, what you have is a "V" where it started to fall off in '11, continue to fall off in '12, and then started to pick up strongly and I think Q3 was an 11% sequential. So they did almost a year and a quarter once the investment banks stopped declining. So what happened largely is investment banks that were under tremendous pressure or had regulatory issues or government ownership stop shrinking. We also added a couple of investment banks, which is great, that were new clients. And then the rest of the sectors started to pick up. And generally, the outlook overall for investment banks started to stabilize. So we saw a great growth in Q3, continued growth in Q4. Our pipeline looks much better for Global Markets than certainly when we guided you last year. We still have one client that we talked about in the call that's creating a $3 million headwind in Q1. And as we went through the year, we updated people on where the clients were. So we still have one that's destabilizing, but we think that's done at the end of Q1 and that's part of our guide.

Paul B. Thomas - Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Research Division

We talked about competition for SapientNitro also. Can you talk about the competitors in Global Markets and what advantages you have in that arena?

Alan J. Herrick

So our strategy and what we've been really focused on over the years in Global Markets is to have really deep domain knowledge and to sit at the center of the capital markets ecosystem. So a couple of things that we've talked about on the call is we actually have set the road to connectivity in clearing standard that ISDA now adopting -- the International Swaps and Derivatives Association. You'll look at some of our involvement in helping with the Fed litter around derivatives and other technical issues of the industry. We obviously built all the infrastructure and technology for the ECB loan-level clearing house, that's been a new company that's been formed around that. So where we try to position ourselves is the ability to really understand the inner workings of capital markets, the clearing issues, the regulatory issues and then use that to actually then tap into the key clients in capital markets to help them then navigate the changes around regulatory issues, clearing issues, issues in risk management, issues in compliance, issues in fraud. So the issues change from year-to-year, although the regulatory issues seems to be fairly consistent lately, but the issues can change from year-to-year every couple of years, but it's really though kind of operating from a, "We really get the inner workings of the capital markets and we really focus on the issues that push capital markets forward and therefore push our clients forward." So largely, the competitive set there -- it's a little eclectic, again, but it could be folks like -- I don't even know how you class these in, but it could be like the Deloitte & Touche, it can be KPMG, it could be the Accentures [ph] of the world here and there. Once in a while you may see some of the large Indian companies, to get into some of the bigger technology builds. But what really differentiates us is kind of the interconnected knowledge about the capital markets system to be able to go from advisory to execution and be more accountable for the results overall for our clients.

Paul B. Thomas - Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Research Division

All right. In rounding out the sectors -- and Government Services obviously a challenging sector to be right now, but you did show year-over-year growth in Q4 and you've highlighted some wins in federal health, mobile and logistics for defense. How are you thinking about that segment in 2013?

Alan J. Herrick

Yes, I think -- I mean, we're watching that carefully, largely because of sequestration. And we think -- again Global Markets for us is -- I mean, sorry, Government is 4% or 5% of our revenue, so on an impact basis it's not a huge deal. But we're not predicting it will be a great Government year. So we'll see if sequestration does or doesn't happen. It would probably affect half of our 5%, maybe 2.5% of our business. And you hear different things about how sequestration could happen if it's a 10% or 20% cut or if at all? So we think we have about 2.5% that we're looking at there, and we'll see how that plays out. But in our guidance, is obviously a set of outcomes that we might expect in Government Services.

Paul B. Thomas - Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Research Division

And thinking about margins for 2013, your guidance was for flat or flat to better, I guess, for 2013. And you also talked about 2014 having a little more confidence in margin expansion over that horizon. Can you kind of walk us through the thinking, near-term for this year and then what's the confidence in the out-year?

Joseph S. Tibbetts

Yes, so probably we're thinking about our margins in '12 and then seeing how that walks through '13 and '14. In '12, we did 12.8% margins at the non-GAAP operating margin level, which is where we focus our business. And that was in an environment where we were expanding our Asia business and making investments there in order to provide the kind of services that Alan's talking to our clients in Asia. We have to hire some talent and skill set breadth across the business. They're sort of ahead of the revenue, which is not what we typically would do in a more mature part of our business. So that was about a $15 million investment against our bottom line in 2012. And as we go into -- and then the other thing that affected '12 was we had attrition that actually -- voluntary attrition on the part of employees that actually was better than we modeled in our business. So we actually continued to have low turnover, which you might think at the outset would be a great thing, which it is. But if you're planning on a little higher turnover in your models, it means you probably have more people sitting around and not quite as utilized as you'd like them to be. So that had a short-term negative effect on us and it may actually prove out longer term to help us. But so as we go into thinking about what our margins should look like in '13, we're thinking similar margin for largely the same reason that we're thinking we're in a very similar situation from the standpoint of the ambient market that we're in, and the choppiness of some of the external factors that are affecting our clients. So we sort of start at the same spot. From the standpoint of the Asia investment, we're starting to turn that around, that's predicted to be profitable by the end of the year and be less of a drag on our profitability. But at the same time, we made a recent acquisition in Brazil and we're going to probably use up that same differential in international investment in getting our Brazil feet on the ground and getting that kind of capability there. So sort of a neutral effect in -- of that factor in 2013. We do think we can get some potential benefits in both utilization and G&A spend and scale if the business continues to do a little better than we're expecting. And so we've provided that for that in the guidance by saying 12.8% or better, and the better really comes with a little bit more vibrant external market that we can compete in. As we go to '14, some of that international investment will fall off. We'll be able to take some of that back, not all of it in 1 year, but over time, we think we can invest less in a given year in -- specifically in international investment. That's probably half of about 100 bps -- basis point gain in profitability that we think we can get in '14. And then again positive effects on utilization and scale having an effect on general administrative spend, we be able to get the rest of that 100 bps improvement that we talked about for 2014. So improving margins is a general theme of what we've been doing over time. The economy has sort of conspired against us in a few years with the recession and what have you. But in general, we've been able to have strong revenue growth and at the same time, expanding our margins.

Paul B. Thomas - Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Research Division

You've highlighted the acquisition in Brazil. The iThink digital ad agency, and you guys have also done (m)PHASIZE in cross-channel marketing. Can you talk about what size those businesses were in 2012 and what they bring to Sapient?

Alan J. Herrick

Sure. They're about $9 million to $10 million in 2012 combined? And I think that when you look at really what we're trying to do overall, I think obviously as a creative agency that give us access to Brazil. And what's really happening digitally is that clients are trying to get leveraged digitally around the world. So they're trying to really expand in the places that they can grow their brand, so the BRIC countries and there's a few more very important to the expansion of our clients. So we either put ourselves in a position where we can aid them with creating that leverage or we don't. So we made a very conscious choice to move in to Brazil so that we can help our clients there and be their partner of choice there in Brazil. So they bring some great skills around creative and digital, we'll have to round that out with some technology skills to help them compete. We're very excited about that, especially in front of the World Cup and, obviously, the Olympics in Brazil. (m)PHASIZE, which is based in the U.S., is really focused on cross-channel analytics and understanding influence to analytics. So trying to really understand, as you look at your marketing mix across channels and what happens in your purchase as far as purchase, how do you mix that in a way that drives optimum return and essentially lowers your overall investment in marketing. So if you think about a lot of what I talked about with Storyscaping, it's a lot about how do you really put your brand in the digital world and drive success. If you think about (m)PHASIZE, it really comes in and says, "Well, let's put some return to that. Let's make sure we understand the math about how you spend your money to make sure we can be held accountable to making sure that you are getting the return. Not just of the sales line, but on the overall return on investments you're making in marketing." So that is the piece that we've added there?

Paul B. Thomas - Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Research Division

I think I'll pause here for a moment or 2 and see if there's any questions.

Unknown Analyst

[indiscernible] becoming big. I just wanted to understand, I mean, do think that it's going to become disproportionately big in the next couple of years? Assuming that we've seen the reelection of the president in U.S. And there has been a weakening of the lobby as far as the overall regulatory in line with this concern. So how do you see that progressing? And how much of an opportunity it can be for you?

Alan J. Herrick

Yes, I think we've already seen some good opportunity from regulatory change. And I think we'll continue to see consulting work. And then I think where it gets more interesting is when those consulting assignments change to, we need to make a change in our processes, compliance risk, otherwise Dodd-Frank, that then drives change in our systems and technologies and then they get a little larger for us, right? So I expect, just based -- my opinion just based on the governmental environment we're in, you'll probably see that to be a pretty good trend over the next few years. I don't want say it's proportionally going to get that large 3 years from now, but I still think when we're sitting here in a couple of years, it will still be an important part of what we're doing as it is today.

Paul B. Thomas - Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Research Division

Maybe I'll follow-up, Joe, on a comment you made earlier about utilization. As you've finished the year at 74%, which is up a little bit from where you guys have been. How do we think about that in 2013? Are you going to stay up around those levels? Or what's the kind of thought process?

Joseph S. Tibbetts

Sure. A couple of thoughts about that. The 74% is in fact the utilization number that reflects the time spent on clients, right? And that's an aggregated global number for us. When you break that down into the specific locations and where we get that then the economics become a little clearer. So that number by itself doesn't quite tell the story. But I would say in general, our utilization is impacted by a couple of things and we think there's opportunity to improve them because of those things. One is the international expansion that I talked about, so there's a bunch of talent and skills that we're hiring ahead of the revenue that isn't fully utilized in the expansion markets. And that obviously will become less of a -- less of our total over time, so that's going to help. And then the other aspect is in places where we have very large capability, India is a great example. We have a few number of offices in India with lots of people in them. That's a much easier equation to manage as a whole than it is if you spread those people out over many offices in many locations, such as we have in some spots in the U.S. and in Europe and in Asia. So the point is that scale will help us as we get bigger, and some of those smaller locations become bigger locations where you can sort of spread the averages out a bit and not have to predict all the -- because the utilization, when you're looking at you're managing your people and determining what you need as you're going forward, you're looking at your revenue pipeline and then you're trying to match it with the right people from the standpoint of geography, the right people with respect to skill sets, and as Alan mentioned, you can gather from what Alan talked about, there's a lot of varying skill sets within Sapient that has to be sort of ready and ready to go for clients in various locations. As you have the ability to do that over a larger number of people and a fewer number of locations, then you can get better at it. So we think there's efficiencies around that as well. And then the third element is just around our delivering methodology and the way we approach, bringing skills to clients from a combination of both local, global-distributed delivery as we've done for many years principally out of India. And then around just the methodology of using certain specialized skills, having them in a central location and bringing those skills -- having those skills available to clients without necessarily assigning one-to-one people against clients. So all of those things we're getting better at and I think that's what's helped us get better utilization, and I think we're getting better than that.

Paul B. Thomas - Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Research Division

And we'll poll for questions. All right. One more for me. Thinking about capital allocation. So you guys have $100 million authorization for repurchase. You've done some M&A. How do we think about capital allocation for you guys going forward?

Joseph S. Tibbetts

Want me to take that one, too?

Alan J. Herrick

Yes.

Joseph S. Tibbetts

So we do have $100 million allocation. We've had stock buyback against that of $45 million, so we have a remaining $55 million. The allocation time period goes through May of 2014. So our expectation is that we will complete that buyback allocation over that time period without getting terribly specific about which days we're in the market. Our general philosophy has been to return excess capital to shareholders in one form or another, and I say that meaning either in the form of buybacks or dividends, and we've done that for years. We look at -- we want to make sure that we do have the flexibility to do the acquisitions that we want to do from a cash standpoint, as well as deal with whatever the market deals -- whatever comes our way in terms of the economy and all that, and so we look at our cash balance with that in mind. Most of our acquisitions have been fairly small and more about strategic interest in bringing skill sets and capabilities as opposed to scale to the company. That's not to say we wouldn't do a large acquisition. If we did, we have not borrowed -- we have no borrowings at this point, so we have obviously the ability to do that if we found the right thing. So I think we've got the right kind of cash flexibility and the right attitude towards what to do with capital allocation.

Paul B. Thomas - Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Research Division

Okay. No more questions? I guess we'll leave it there. Thanks guys for your time.

Alan J. Herrick

Thanks for your time. Appreciate it.

Joseph S. Tibbetts

Great. Thanks very much.

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Source: Sapient Corp. Presents at Goldman Sachs Technology & Internet Conference 2013, Feb-13-2013 02:40 PM
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