JDA Software Group Inc. Q4 2008 Earnings Call Transcript

| About: JDA Software (JDAS)

JDA Software Group Inc. (NASDAQ:JDAS)

Q4 2008 Earnings Call

January 26, 2009 4:45 pm ET


Hamish Brewer – President and Chief Executive Officer

Kristen Magnuson – Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer


Andrey Glukhov – Brean Murray

Brad Reback – Oppenheimer and Company

Richard Williams – Cross Research


Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome to the JDA Software Group Incorporated fourth quarter 2008 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Following the presentation, the conference will be opened for questions. I will now turn the conference over to Mr. Hamish Brewer, CEO, please go ahead, sir.

Hamish Brewer

Good afternoon and welcome to the earnings results call for the fourth quarter 2008. The fourth quarter was a record quarter for JDA. It made 2008 a record year for JDA as well. First, we delivered record quarterly software sales of $34 million. Second, we delivered record quarterly revenues of $106 million. Third, these record revenues delivered record adjusted EBITDA for the year of $97.4 million. In light of the current market conditions, these are clearly outstanding results. I will take some time later on in the call today to provide some color around these results and our outlook going into 2009.

With me on the call today is Kristen Magnuson, CFO and Executive Vice President of JDA; and I would like to get the call going by asking Kristen to take us through a broadened view of our financial performance this quarter. Kristen.

Kristen Magnuson

Thank you, Hamish. Before I begin, let me remind all of you that this presentation will contain certain forwardlooking statements. Our actual results may differ materially from those projected in forwardlooking statements. Additional information concerning factors that can cause our actual results to materially differ from those in the forwardlooking statements may be found in our Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2007, and other SEC filings.

Furthermore, this presentation includes nonGAAP measures, which JDA uses internally in budgeting and performance monitoring activities to gauge our business performance. We believe these measures provide useful information to investors in evaluating JDA's ongoing business results. We have prepared a reconciliation of each of these measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures in our press release, which will be posted on our website at www.jda.com.

As Hamish just stated, in what appears to be the worst economy in my lifetime, we are reporting record software license sales, record total revenues, and record earnings. What can I say but it's all about software sales. Our sales force is clearly outperforming the mean and closed seven large deals last quarter, which is the highest number of million-dollar-plus deals in any quarter, including the largest contract ever signed in the history of the company.

Total software revenues in the fourth quarter of 2008 were up 49% sequentially and up 53% yearoveryear. This increase lifted total revenues up by 8% both sequentially and yearoveryear. The $7.8 million increase in total revenues, to $106.2 million, resulted in record adjusted EBITDA of $28 million for the fourth quarter of 2008 and $97.4 million for the full year 2008, which compares to $27 million in the third quarter and $88.7 million for the full year 2007.

We exceeded our stretch goal of $95 million in EBITDA for 2008, which also resulted in higher incentive compensation expense companywide. Total incentive compensation, commissions, bonuses, and sharebased compensation in the fourth quarter of 2008 were $16 million compared to $8.9 million and $11.8 million in the third quarter of 2008 and the fourth quarter of 2007, respectively. Total incentive cost for the full year 2008 was $38.9 million compared to $34.6 million in 2007.

The net net of it all is that we recorded record EPS of $0.43 in the fourth quarter of 2008 and $1.47 for the full year 2008. The strong earnings performance in the fourth quarter 2008 was driven particularly by strong software sales performance in the Americas region, which was up 56% sequentially and 127% yearoveryear.

For the full year 2008, worldwide software revenues grew $19.3 million or 26% compared to 2007. As we continue to market the high ROI of our solutions, our average selling prices have continued to increase and the full year ended December 31, 2008, they averaged $687,000 compared to $324,000 in fiscal year 2007. Furthermore, there were 19 deals greater than a million dollars in the trailing 12 months ended December 31, 2008, compared to 10 deals greater than a million in fiscal year 2007.

A lot of the growth in software revenues is coming from products that have embedded thirdparty technology applications and/or required payments of higher royalty fee obligations, particularly in the infrastructure and other products we acquired from Manugistics. Thus, software cost of goods sold as a percentage of license revenue was 4.3% in the fourth quarter of 2008 compared to 2.7% in the third quarter of 2008 and 3% in the fourth quarter of last year.

Due to the continued strengthening of the U.S. dollar against European currencies in the fourth quarter of 2008 compared to the third quarter of 2008, maintenance revenues decreased to $44 million in the fourth quarter compared to $46.4 million in the third quarter. Our annualized retention rate remains strong at 94% to 95%. Substantially all of the decrease in the fourth quarter of 2008 was due to the weakening of foreign currencies versus the U.S. dollar, particularly that of the British pound and the Euro.

The volatility in the foreign currency exchange rates will continue to be the greatest risk in our efforts to maximize maintenance revenue performance. If the currency situation continues as is or worsens, we will experience another sequential decline in the first quarter of 2009. Please note, however, that there is a partial offset to this decline in maintenance revenues which is spread throughout the P&L in the form of lowest costs that are denominated in foreign currencies like salaries and occupancy costs. The benefit in the fourth quarter of 2008 versus the third quarter was about $1.4 million versus the detriment to maintenance revenues, which was about $2.1 million.

Client support services margins were $32.4 million or 74% in the fourth quarter compared to $34.9 million or 75% in the third quarter and $35.7 million or 76% last year. During 2008, we increased the client support services head count in our Center of Excellence operation by 34 employees and reduced our onshore resources by three employees.

We ended the fourth quarter of 2008 with 296 employees in client support services compared to 265 at December 31, 2007. As our maintenance base grows, this off-shoring effort will allow us to maintain the same level of service while keeping the lid on our cost increases, which will help us preserve our maintenance margins in 2009 despite the FX pressure on revenues.

Total services revenue decreased $1.1 million or 4% to $27.9 million in the fourth quarter compared to $29 million in the third quarter of 2008 and decreased $1.1 million or 4% compared to the fourth quarter last year. This sequential decrease in services revenues in the fourth quarter is due primarily to a seasonal decrease in billable hours due to the heavy number of holidays in the fourth quarter and a related decline in utilization rates.

The sequential revenue decrease also caused service margins to decrease to 15% in the fourth quarter compared to 21% in the third quarter and 20% in the fourth quarter of last year. The sequential decrease in service margins also reflects the impact of the higher bonus payouts under the corporate profit-sharing plan.

During 2008, we increased the CSG head count of our COE operations by 43 employees and reduced our onshore resources by 34 employees. We hope to see the benefit of this shift in resources reflected in our service margins in 2009.

Worldwide utilizations and rewrite billing rates were 49% and $196 per hour, respectively, in the fourth quarter compared to 52% and $198 per hour in the third quarter and 56% and $194 per hour in the fourth quarter of last year.

Total operating expenses, excluding amortization of intangibles, restructuring charges, and the cost related to the terminated i2 acquisition was $45 million in the fourth quarter compared to $39.6 million in the third quarter of 2008 and $44.7 million in the fourth quarter of 2007. Total incentive costs included in operating expenses for the fourth quarter of 2008 was $11.7 million compared to $6.8 million in the third quarter and $8.6 million in the fourth quarter of last year.

Product development expense increased 3% or $382,000 to $13.7 million in the fourth quarter compared to $13.3 million in the third quarter and increased 2% or $214,000 compared to the fourth quarter of last year. The increase in product development expense in the fourth quarter of 2008 sequentially results primarily from a higher bonus payout and a reduction in deferred costs for ongoing customerfunded development projects. Offset, in part, by a decrease in salaries and benefits which is a result of the shift of product development resources to our COE in India.

The increase in product development expense in the fourth quarter of 2008 compared to last year also results primarily from a higher bonus payout due to the company's improved operating performance and a reduction in deferred costs for ongoing customer-funded development projects.

Additionally, although the average product development head count increased nearly 17% in the fourth quarter compared to last year, compensation costs have decreased as new and replacement positions were filled with lower cost resources at the COE.

During 2008, we reduced our on-shore product development head count by 23 employees and increased the product development head count at the COE by 92 FTE. We ended the fourth quarter with 531 people in product development, including 297 at the COE, which compares to 462 in total at the end of last year. As we continue with our plan to balance our resources offshore and onshore, we expect to be able to continue significant R&D efforts at a lower cost.

Sales and marketing expense increased $2.8 million to $18.7 million in the fourth quarter compared to $15.9 million in the third quarter of 2008 and increased $412,000 compared to $18.3 million in the fourth quarter last year. The sequential increase in sales and marketing expense in the fourth quarter of 2008 results from an increase in sales commissions due to the 49% sequential increase in software sales as well as from yearend escalators in sales commission plans. The increase in sales and marketing cost yearoveryear results primarily from an increase in sales commissions on 53% higher software sales.

We ended the fourth quarter with 215 people in sales and marketing compared to 212 at the end of the third quarter and 222 at the end of last year. These head counts include 64, 63, and 68 quota carrying people, respectively. Our sales productivity is definitely up.

G&A expense was $11.7 million in the fourth quarter compared to $10.4 million in the third quarter and $11.6 million in the fourth quarter last year. The $1.3 million sequential increase in G&A expense results primarily from higher comp expense due to the company's improved operating performance and seasonal increases in legal and accounting costs.

A $750,000 provision in doubtful accounts was taken in the fourth quarter of 2008 due to the increased number of bankruptcies and potential bankruptcies in the retail sector. This compares to no provision in the third quarter of 2008 and $1.3 million provision in the fourth quarter of last year.

Our days sales outstanding increased sequentially to 67 days in the fourth quarter of 2008 from 58 days in the third quarter, which is consistent with our fourth quarter 2007 DSOs. The sequential increase in DSOs in the fourth quarter results primarily from a 49% increase in software sales. We sell software with installment payment terms so our average DSO on software receivables is about 105 days.

The DSO results for the fourth quarter of each year are also impacted by a number of large government maintenance contracts, which are subsequently collected in the first quarter in the subsequent year. Our quarterly DSO results historically increase during the first quarter of each year, due to the heavy annual maintenance renewal billings that occur during that time frame, and then gradually decrease through the second and third quarter before increasing slightly in the fourth quarter.

We ended the fourth quarter of 2008 with $32.7 million in cash compared to $95.3 million at the end of last year. During the fourth quarter of 2008, we paid a $20 million reverse breakup fee to i2 and repaid the remaining $80.5 million of longterm borrowings on October 1, 2008. We have a $50 million revolving line of credit with Citigroup under our existing credit agreement. We generated $47.1 million in cash flow from operations in the year ended December 31, 2008, compared to nearly $80 million in 2007.

We had positive cash flow in each of the first three quarters of $23.1 million, $28.8 million, and $18.8 million. It was offset in part by a negative cash flow in the fourth quarter of $23.6 million. The negative cash flow is a direct result of about $29.7 million in costs paid or accrued in connection with the terminated i2 acquisition, including a $20 million reverse breakup fee, $4.7 million in finance costs, and $5 million of legal, accounting, and other acquisitionrelated costs.

The one good thing about the termination fee is that it's tax deductible and that fact, together with the retroactive extension of the U.S. research and development credit last quarter, substantially reduced our effective tax rate for 2008 to about 24%. Our normalized tax rate is approximately 35%. With that, I will turn the floor back over to Hamish.

Hamish Brewer

Thanks, Kristen. I’ve had the pleasure to work at JDA for about 15 years now and I can say quite honestly that our current situation in many ways is better than ever. Clearly, we've delivered record revenues driven by record software sales and record profits and all this in arguably the worst economic crisis since the establishment of the company.

So what's going on? In short, I think that our strategy of providing an end-to-end supply chain planning stream that delivers superior capabilities to manufacturers, distributors, and retailers is really achieving traction in the markets. With all the consolidations that have occurred, JDA has managed to establish a clear position as the market leader in our vertical with leadership that's being recognized as we consistently win new business opportunities across the board against all of our competitors, the niche players as well as the large horizontal industry heavyweights.

In addition to this market phenomenon, what JDA offers right now is exactly what struggling companies everywhere need. We release working capital by reducing inventory. We increase sales by improving customer service levels. We reduce labor costs, and we enable synchronized and optimized business processes to be executed flawlessly both within the enterprise and between trading partners.

While it's true that this economic crisis has already been fatal for some of the weaker companies in our target market, a much larger percentage will survive and some will even take advantage of this situation to expand their market share. This recession is bringing into sharp focus all of the weaknesses in companies’ core processes and creating an irresistible call to action. The result so far is that people want process and efficiency improvement and they want it now.

When faced with emergency of this nature, it's just human nature to turn to the safest and most reliable source of help; and when it comes to supply chain, that means JDA. Clearly, we had a large sale in the fourth quarter to a customer who has requested confidentiality. I can't share any details about this deal. But even without this sale, you can see that software sales in the fourth quarter were near record levels for JDA.

This was not all the consequence of one large deal, which would make it hard to draw meaningful longerterm conclusions. The solid foundation of deals underpinning this one large transaction provides assurance that these excellent results are built on a sustainable base of execution of leadership.

The Americas was by far the strongest contributor to this result in spite of the fact that I believe that the current recession has really impacted the U.S. more rapidly than many other economies. This underscores the point I made earlier, that the economic crisis is in fact creating a compelling call to action for those strong enough to respond. That call to action is focused on addressing exactly the kind of problems that JDA solves better than anyone else.

Although our revenues and EBITDA results for 2008 were very strong, as you may know, we have struggled throughout the year to improve results from our consulting services business. In response to this, we made organizational changes going into 2009, which I believe will establish the basis for improvement in this business. We've decided to integrate all of our services business under one management team, and we're calling this group JDA Services.

By doing this, we increase our scale to over 680 associates and create new opportunities for efficiencies across the company. Additionally, this new organization structure is creating opportunities for us to establish new service-based offerings designed to deliver better value to our customers in these tough economic times. As we finalize and roll out these initiatives, I will share these plans with you throughout the course of the year.

As an integral platform for improving results from our consulting services business, we are totally focused on leveraging the services capability that we established for the investment of our Center of Excellence in 2008. While I don't expect immediate results from these changes, I am optimistic that we can improve the performance of our consulting business absent significant impact from worsening overall market conditions.

I mentioned the Center of Excellence in relation to consulting services. As many of you will know, this is our major strategic initiative for 2008, and I am pleased to be able to report back to you that we achieved most of the goals we set ourselves. And as we enter the uncertain economic conditions in 2009, I feel very good about the fact that we have been able to establish a highly qualified and capable team as people in our Hyderabad Center of Excellence.

We have the potential to substantially reduce operating costs for JDA without compromising the quality of work we undertake and while expanding our overall capacity. As predicted in January last year, we've already started to see some operating margin impacts from this facility, but I expect 2009 to really be the year when we're able to take full advantage of this investment.

So what does all this mean for 2009? Well, you can imagine we've been struggling to figure out how to forecast our business in 2009. On the one hand, we're staring into the face of a major global economic crisis. On the other hand, JDA has never done better.

As you can imagine, we feel the need to be prudent, but it also seems imprudent to predict a downturn for JDA when things are going so well. In conclusion, we've decided not to provide full year guidance for 2009; and instead, we're just going to take each quarter as we find it and give you our best indication on a quarterly basis.

You should remember that the reason that we've historically provided annual guidance rather than quarterly guidance is that our business does not operate on a 90-day cycle. Shortening the projection window increases the risk of error around the timing of deals. That fact has not changed. However, on balance we prefer to assume this risk rather than set potentially unnecessarily pessimistic expectations, which as a financially conservative company we might otherwise feel inclined to do.

So we are going to provide a fairly wide range each quarter to offset the short forecast window risk. We will complement that with the usual qualitative description of our pipeline and other important trends. Let me first talk about the pipeline, and then I will provide the quarterly range.

The fourth quarter had the usual yearend budget flush phenomenon [and effect]. There were a number of companies that wanted to spend money using 2008 budgets. As is typical, this has somewhat reduced our immediate pipeline in Q1. However, I should also point out that we see some goodsized opportunities on the horizon in the first half of 2009. I don't believe this is a longterm pipeline trend.

As you saw, the fourth quarter was characterized by a very strong performance in large deals, whereas we expect the first quarter to be driven largely by midsized deals rather like the first quarter of 2008. The nice thing about this situation is that we're not heavily dependent on any one large deal. Although, as I say, there are a few large deals floating out there so it's always possible that one of these could land this quarter.

The second issue I would like to highlight is the strengthening of the U.S. dollar during the fourth quarter, particularly against the European currencies which created a significant impact on our maintenance revenues as described by Kristen earlier on the call. I don't want to get into the game of trying to guess currency exchange rates. Clearly, further significant strengthening of the U.S. dollar would create additional top line and bottom line challenges for the company.

Taking these factors into consideration for the first quarter of 2009, our guidance ranges are as follows. For software licenses, we are projecting a low end of $16 million to a high end of $23 million. For total revenues, we are projecting a low end of $83.5 million to a high end of $93 million. Adjusted EBITDA, we're projecting a low end of $15.5 million to a high end of $22 million. For adjusted EPS, we're projecting a low end of $0.24 to a high end of $0.35.

Finally, I’d like to make a few brief comments about acquisitions. It was very disappointing for us that external factors made it impossible for us to close the i2 deal, as we clearly intended. However, we continue to believe that acquisitions are an integral part of our overall growth plan. And I believe that the current environment is likely to create opportunities to buy at reasonable prices. Therefore, we are actively looking for opportunities that can deliver the kind of results that we achieved with Manugistics, even in this tough economic environment.

We currently have a net cash position, strong cash flows from operations; and as you have seen, we were able to effectively pay off the debt we incurred to buy Manugistics in just 19 months. I believe that even in this challenging market, with the right valuation, we can achieve similar results. And that is our goal in 2009, to remain focused on deals that we think could drive significant appreciation for JDA even in this tough economic times. With that, I would like to open up to call for questions.

QuestionandAnswer Session


Thank you. (Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from the line of Andrey Glukhov with Brean Murray. Please go ahead.

Andrey Glukhov Brean Murray

Congratulations on a strong quarter. Maybe, Hamish, I appreciate the desire to not get into annual guidance, but just to zero in on the EBITDA for a second. Historically, we talked about the fact that the progress on transition of some of the functions to the Center of Excellence in India would yield meaningful EBITDA benefits in 2009. Where do you feel that you stand with that? And do you think that you're still on track to see that this year?

Hamish Brewer

Broadly speaking, we feel like we're on track with our 3year plan for the Center of Excellence. The main area I would say that we're running behind is within the movement of consulting services hours over to the Center of Excellence. We didn't achieve the goal that we set ourselves in 2008 in that area. But we have a full court press right now to drive additional consulting hours over to our Center of Excellence, which we think should be well accepted in the market right now, especially with the low rates we're able to offer from that facility.

Overall, I do anticipate that the Center of Excellence is going to provide the kind of margin expansion that we originally anticipated for 2009. Having said that, we've got issues like the massive negative impact of FX exchange rate against our maintenance revenues. We obviously have got the uncertainty of the economic environment in terms of what it's going to mean for deal cycles. That's why you see such a wide range there.

Andrey Glukhov Brean Murray

That’s helpful. Kristen, maybe as far as the retail bankruptcies are concerned, you alluded to them that you took some bad debt reserve in the quarter. Can you handicap for us what do you guys currently think the potential negative impact on the annual maintenance came from -- the bankruptcies or from the filings that you are aware of that could be this year?

Kristen Magnuson

We have felt some pressure, and we've probably lost somewhere in the range of about a million dollars worth of renewals from retail bankruptcies. We have not been stung hard by any one particular customer in terms of the receivables write-off because we've been keeping a very tight rein on our collections of receivables and keeping them as current as possible. When we booked the bad debt provision, we did look at exposure we have to retailers that are in sectors that seem to be under fire right now. We were trying to build up our general reserve for some incremental potential bankruptcies.

Andrey Glukhov Brean Murray

Lastly, if you guys get your way and efforts around the improvement of the service organization do take affect, what kind of services margin improvement would you be looking for?

Kristen Magnuson

We could possibly pull them up to around the mid20s, the low 20s to the mid20s in 2009.


Our next question comes from the line of Brad Reback with Oppenheimer and Company.

Brad Reback – Oppenheimer and Company

I know you can’t talk too much about the big deal, but can you give us any sense of what type of vertical it may have been in or products it might have been centered around, supply chain or retail or all of it?

Hamish Brewer

We can’t really talk about the customer at all. I think one thing we can say is the product area it was in our supply chain area.

Brad Reback – Oppenheimer and Company

Was it an existing customer?

Hamish Brewer


Brad Reback – Oppenheimer and Company

Kristen, back on the service, or maybe Hamish, on the service business, I am making an assumption here, but I would assume the business is obviously running well below your expectations. As you look back over the last 12 months, aside from the macro issues, what type of things internally prevented you from improving that business more quickly?

Hamish Brewer

I think internally, we had some internal execution issues, some management issues. We’ve made a number of changes during the course of the fourth quarter, so it’s not like we enter 2009 planning to make changes. We’ve already made most of the changes that we plan to make going into 2009. I think there were some internal execution issues. Then I think the other side of the equation is that it just has been a tough market out there for services in general. We’ve had strong competition from low-cost service providers.

This is why we’re ramping up our offshore Center of Excellence, the core element to our services offering is critical for JDA. The good news is the investment we made last year. We’re ready; we’ve got the people in position. We’ve got them trained. We’ve got projects that we’ve already successfully delivered, and we’re beginning to ramp up that facility now. I think that will be a core element to achieving the goals we want to achieve in 2009 in services.

Brad Reback – Oppenheimer and Company

With respect to i2, contractually are there any things that prevent you at any time from coming back and make another bid if you see fit?

Hamish Brewer


Brad Reback – Oppenheimer and Company

Okay. So that would be dependent on your expectations of the business and potential financing?

Hamish Brewer

Yes and, quite frankly, we’re also going to be looking across the board at opportunities that are out there. There are plenty of companies out there right now looking for opportunities to be acquired, and we have to weigh the opportunities with i2 against other businesses that are out there. Like I said, we’re not going to make a [legal face] in this year obviously with the uncertainty in the economic environment. That’s something I want to assure our shareholders about. We’re going to take a prudent approach; but if we see a good opportunity, we will take advantage of it.

Kristen Magnuson

And I still keep in regular contact with our banking group and the money is out there and available. In fact, I’ve been told the conditions in the debt market overall have improved modestly.

Brad Reback – Oppenheimer and Company

Finally, on the use of cash. Historically you guys have been pretty adamant. You don’t feel like buying back stock; it’s better to sit on that and use it to do an acquisition. Any change in that philosophy?

Kristen Magnuson


Hamish Brewer

I don’t think so.

Kristen Magnuson

The problem with buying back your own stock is it doesn’t generate any future cash flow.

Hamish Brewer

Like I say, we want to be opportunistic in this environment. We feel we are going to get the opportunity to make some good deals.

Brad Reback – Oppenheimer and Company



Our next question comes from the line of Richard Williams with Cross Research.

Richard Williams – Cross Research

Congratulations on the quarter. I just wondered if you could give us some color on geographic regions. What made the difference? And also where that really big deal came from.

Hamish Brewer

Well the big deal, and you will be able to see from the numbers, came from the Americas. But I think the main drivers that we see going on right now are we definitely see strong competitive differentiation and leadership, particularly here in the Americas right now. As I said, the kind of things that we do, like cut working capital, reduce labor costs, increase turns of inventory in the business, it’s all the kind of stuff. Every business that has to buy inventory is going to be focused on right now.

Quite frankly, we feel like our competitive positioning and our solution strength in the marketplace right now are better than they have ever been. So we feel very good about our ability to win business worldwide. As you know, we’ve really retooled our sales team starting around the middle of 2006 in the Americas. We feel like that organization, over the course of the last two years, has really developed and matured and we have a very strong team in place there now. We can compete very effectively, and we’re winning most of the deals that we compete in in the Americas, which is obviously important for us because that’s our largest market.

As you may remember, we put some new management in place in Asia Pacific. We recently [inaudible] out a lot of the team in Asia Pacific over the course of the fourth quarter and the quarter preceding that. While we have largely a new team in place in Asia Pacific going into 2009, I feel very good about the quality of individuals we’ve been able to hire. We were out there at a kick-off meeting just last week. We feel like we’re very well positioned to do well in that market in 2009.

Again, in EMEA, we are going through some transition in terms of management there. We could see a nice improvement in results in the fourth quarter, and we are hopeful that signifies a good trend for 2009. We’ve definitely got a strong pipeline over there of opportunities growing into 2009.

In summary, in Asia Pacific and EMEA there’s still some work to do, some rebuilding to do. Americas, we feel very good about where we are. That’s an overall geographic position.


Mr. Brewer, there are no further questions. I will turn it back to you for closing comments.

Hamish Brewer

Thanks for joining us today on this earnings call, and we look forward to getting together in April. Hopefully, we’ll be able to give you a good positive update on the quarter. Thanks a lot.


Ladies and gentlemen, that will conclude today’s teleconference and we thank you again for your participation. At this time, you may disconnect. Have a nice day.

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