Sirius-XM's Reverse-Split Realities 238 comments
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On October 16, 2008, NASDAQ implemented a temporary suspension of the $1 bid price rule. This temporary extension, which was originally set to expire on Friday, January 16, 2009, has now been extended through Friday, April 17, 2009.
Beginning Monday, April 20, 2009, NASDAQ will start a fresh clock ticking in regard to any company's stock whose bid price then closes below $1/share (from that trading day onward). (NASDAQ Temporary Rule Suspension)
In other words, if before October 16, 2008, a company was still compliant (was not deficient) with the $1 bid price rule, and, prior to, or during the rule's October 16, 2008 through April 17, 2009 suspension period, that company's share price fell below $1/share - none of that would be counted toward the 30 consecutive trading day period NASDAQ clocks before notifying the company it is bid price deficient.
Case in point: SIRIUS XM Radio Inc. (SIRI) closed below $1/share beginning September 22, 2008, and has closed below $1/share for 102 straight trading days through February 17, 2009 (the date of this article). 
If NASDAQ had not suspended the $1 bid price rule, SIRIUS XM Radio would have already been bid-price deficient as of October 31, 2008, and, as such, would had already been notified by NASDAQ promptly after that date. But the rule suspension nixed all this- a freebie for SIRIUS through April 17, 2009. NASDAQ would only begin counting any 30 consecutive trading day deficiency beginning April 20, 2009.
In other words, in SIRIUS XM Radio's case:
- September 22-October 16, 2008: company was not yet bid-price deficient- even though stock price had closed below $1/share for 19 straight trading days-- none counted.
- October 16, 2008-April 17, 2009: suspension period. Any consecutive trading days below $1/share-- not counted.
- April 20, 2009 onward: 30 consecutive trading-day bid-price clock begins (unless NASDAQ announces another bid-price suspension extension).
However, in regard to those to companies who WERE already bid-price deficient prior to the October 16, 2008 suspension date- beginning April 20, 2009, these companies in the compliance period will pick up where they left off. So for example, if, prior to the rule suspension, a company had 120 days remaining on its 180 day compliance period, beginning April 20, 2009, that company will then resume having 120 days left to comply.
NASDAQ implemented the bid price rule suspension back in October 2008 citing "extraordinary market conditions," noting:
"Given current market conditions, Nasdaq proposes to provide issuers of common stock, preferred stock, secondary classes of common stock, shares or certificates of beneficial interest of trusts, limited partnership interests, American Depositary Receipts,and their equivalents temporary relief from the continued inclusion bid price5 and market value of publicly held shares requirements."
"In the past several weeks, U.S. and world financial markets have faced almost unprecedented turmoil, and the Commission has acknowledged in several recent emergency Orders that this turmoil has resulted in a crisis in investor confidence and concerns about the proper functioning of the securities markets.7 As a result, the number of securities trading below $1 has increased dramatically. For example, as of September 30, 2007, there were 64 securities trading below $1 on Nasdaq. By September 30, 2008, that number had increased to 227 and by October 9, 2008, there were 344 securities trading below $1 on Nasdaq and over another 300 Nasdaq-listed securities trading between $1 and $2.8 Nasdaq believes that during this time there was no fundamental change in the underlying business model or prospects for many of these companies, but the decline in general investor confidence has resulted in depressed pricing for companies that otherwise remain suitable for continued listing. These same conditions make it difficult for companies to successfully implement a plan to regain compliance with the price or market value of publicly held shares tests."
All very well and good. NASDAQ-listed companies caught a 180 day break. Which leads me to the point of this article.
The real problem for investors who own (or are thinking of buying) NASDAQ stocks, such as SIRIUS XM Radio, that have been consistently under a buck- is that there is the underlying risk that a company whose stock remains under a buck for 30 straight trading days is ultimately going to do the dreaded reverse-split upon expiration of the 180 day compliance period, in order to cure this deficiency (barring appeal or an additional 180 day compliance extension granted- see below). Once deemed deficient (eg- a company has been notified that it is deficient), a NASDAQ-listed company would have had to then have the stock price trading at a buck or more for 10 or more (not to exceed 20) straight trading days by the final day of the compliance period. And, if this had not yet occurred through "natural" trading, the company is then sent a determination letter by NASDAQ informing them that their stock is subject to de-listing. NASDAQ can then grant another 180 days to comply, but only if the company now meets initial listing requirements- which are much steeper. And, if the company does- this fends off the need to reverse-split for another 6 months.
If, however, that determination letter shows up at a company's "doorstep" and also includes a determination that the company does not now meet the stricter initial listing requirements, the company's only options are then to accept de-listing, to reverse-split immediately (within days-assuming shareholder approval has already been granted) or to appeal (roughly a 2 month affair)- which is a process whereby the company notifies NASDAQ it is appealing, and an appeal date, once set, allows the company, in person or in writing, to present/submit materials with an initial-listing compliance plan to a NASDAQ-independent panel, which, if approved, could result in NASDAQ granting additional time to comply, say an additional 90 days, and, perhaps set requirements to hit certain milestones toward ultimate initial listing compliance.
At the point that all available options and extensions have been exhausted, and with shareholder approval, and assuming the company isn't (or won't be) also deficient in other regards, and, of course, assuming the company wants to stay listed, the "reverse-split" then becomes the one sure-fire method for the company to "get" (and sustain) their stock price over $1 for that "10 not-to-exceed 20 trading-days" requirement. In other words, if the stock price didn't get over a dollar for 10 straight trading days as a result of "normal" trading, the company is allowed to use "artificial" means to do it- and to reverse-split to a high-enough stock price so the stock doesn't quickly drop back under a buck! After all, NASDAQ doesn't simply want that stock price over a dollar or more. It wants it to stay over a dollar or more. So the higher the reverse-split, the better, so to speak. At least in theory- and with all good intentions.
Keep reading.
This "artificial" method by which a company is allowed to regain compliance, to say the least, is an ill-conceived (and bizarre) part of the rule.
Keep reading.
As most traders know, stocks that reverse-split to their higher share price most often sink right back down again- after all, on the one hand, any underlying negative company/financial issues that may have contributed to the stock price going under a dollar in the first place are still there- these don't magically disappear just because the stock price takes on a shiny new reverse-split "happy-face."
And on the other hand, most short-sellers lick their chops waiting for a stock to reverse-split anticipating a bear-raid on the stock. And most savvy investors potentially thinking of buying the stock long, post-reverse split, know the shorts are going to pile in, so potential-longs aren't going to jump in any time soon.
In other words, the reverse-split, most times, turns out to be a cosmetic, artificial and temporary fix, that's it.
So, if the reality is such that a company's stock price is going to sink or be pounded right back down, sometimes to exactly where it was pre-reverse-split (or even below where it was), those long investors who seek to hold their positions pre-reverse into the reverse get "tanked" all over again once the share price drops. And it does not help the exchange on which the company is listed, in regard to achieving the obvious goal- which is to have companies maintain continued listing compliance.
Finally, of course, it certainly doesn't help the company that actually cares about its stock price (versus those companies- and you know who you are- who decide to use (abuse) a low stock price to initiate a share buyback- on the cheap, who first begin buying back shares under a buck, then use the reverse-split to proportionally reduce the number of publicly held shares, then wait for the stock to tank again post-reverse, and continue to buy back the reduced number of shares all over again on the cheap).
If, in the ideal stock market world, bear raids and short-seller manipulation didn't exist (see- A Remedy for Short Selling Manipulation), and companies didn't abuse the ethical considerations and rules of the stock buyback (SEC- it's 10 o'clock- do you know where your Safe Harbor children are?), then reverse-splitting wouldn't be as dreaded as it is by longs. And the company that reverses might have a fighting chance to regain its dollar cut-off.
But, until the SEC actually effectively deals, on a sustained basis, with existing market manipulation and unsavory companies, the under-a-buck cut-off should be eliminated.
Abolished.
This way, the stock price can exist under a dollar- shorts are much less likely to pile in under a buck- and if and when the company itself actually provides investors with solid financial reasons to justify a rise in the stock price to over a buck and beyond- the stock may well hit its mark. Those who have been holding the stock which fell under a dollar won't get "double-tanked" because of a cosmetic reverse-split share price that sinks back down again. And as importantly, if potential long investors know the stock won't be facing a reverse-split because of deficiency/compliance rules, they will be far more likely to buy in under a dollar- which may have the effect of actually getting the stock back over a dollar- the very thing the exchange wanted in the first place!
But, really, this whole thing about stocks under a dollar is all about "appearances." The buck cut-off is simply an elitist creation to separate the "haves" from the "have-nots." The stock market's own caste system, if you will.
And speaking of elitism: as for institutions being barred from owning exchange-deficient stocks or stocks that are under $5/share- this should be done away with altogether. The negative connotation of owning "penny stocks"- which are defined as stocks trading under $5/share- is now an outdated and inappropriate notion in 2009.
It's time to get this whole thing cleaned up once and for all. Its time has finally come. Whether a stock is under $1 or under $5, in this crazy economic environment, or in the future, should no longer matter. It is, without question in the best interests of ALL investors, companies, the exchanges and the taxpayers (although not so good for short-sellers). The exchanges shouldn't be in the business of worrying about whether or not a company's stock price is at any particular level, or that the company maintains a certain ongoing market cap. They should accept companies into their exchanges that qualify on the basis of initial listing requirements, but, once they're in- let them play ball! Make de-listing only the result of serious infractions committed. And, as such, the SEC should then ensure such companies cannot re-enlist anywhere else.
As for the OTCBB- let them continue to be the AAA farm club league for developing companies that need to qualify for initial listing requirements of the major exchanges before being able to bump up. Let the Pink Sheets (AA league) exist for companies that are in chapter 11 bankruptcy or are not yet ready for the OTCBB or the major leagues.
And, at the very least, do away with the dollar bid price rule. That would, surely, be a start.
Disclosure: author holds no positions in any of the stocks mentioned in this article.
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This article has 238 comments:
Good luck all....don't be afraid to sell! You can alway get more shares later and at a discount. Its go time...we play like champions today!
Big Ben
proudly long SIRI, long 32nd pick in the draft C from California
Wow, I sound like a bunch of numbers with that pig comment...
We need more facts now...
Need the short interest report
Need more insitutional reports
need q4 numbers..
Investors are being asked to pile in blind again..
If Mel doesnt dazzle at this next conference, Im going to be pissed. ITs time Mel, stop talkign down your own company now, and lets get going. Start lying, like all CEO's do, but this time can your lies be something that helps this stock...How about throwing up some guidance that doesnt make us want to throw up..
If you like volitilty you wont like low volume...If you like a steady advance, with no real drops that arent justified by news, then low volume is your friend.
If its dropping on low volume, than it could indicate long term investors are slowly piling out, and giving up on this stock...Which would be not usual for a spec stock trading at .16 cents..Usually moves on news at these prices, and the moves as weve seen have been violent.
Credit upgrade...May debt refi...If those are announced before Q4, then we could get some decent up movement...Otherwise I think were all going to have to wait it out now...
P.S. it is ment in a friendly way, I have come to know this company better then the back of my own hand.
Wow, I would be suicidal if I owned from 6 years ago.. You have fortitude, Ill give you that.
Would apprectiate your take on the Cramer "worthless" comment as bordering secruties fraud...
Also, they won't let you buy or sel limit more than 2 dicimal points, only at 0.16 but never 0.165
How are people able to sell and buy same day or following day
I agree with you. The company should take action towards Cramer. What other penny stocks is he weighing opinion on?
Hope his helps
On Feb 18 10:52 AM GetSIRI wrote:
> Ami - what you are trying to do is daytrade. You must have $10K in
> your account to do so. Or you may be trying to free ride. Sell a
> security, use the proceeds to purchase another security, than sell
> the second securuity before the sale of the first has cleared. This
> is illegal by SEC rules.
>
> Hope his helps
You were 32nd pick from Cal?
On Feb 18 10:58 AM relmar2003 wrote:
> If these .16 cent buy people dont cave and up their bid, this might
> close under .17 cents today. Not giving in...They really want that
> .16 cents....17 cent has no resisitance, if these buyers press a
> bit, this stock can move today. Any quick buying right now, would
> jump this sp quickly...Just not happening...Buyers and sellers are
> content with.16 cents right now...Neither side seems impatient or
> looking to move this stock quickly now..Buying is steady, with a
> few lulls...Reminds me of the action when it was going from .10 back
> to .14...Im HOPING .16 is the new .10....
Also all trades are T+3 to settle. (T/trade date plus 3 days)
Before i realized the other thread was waaaaay too long, I left a response there at the bottom...
Too bad SIRI finally does this dang deal right when the market goes into a buyers strike. Otherwise this stock is .35 as we speak. Just no buyers.
Then I was going to say loved the Cal USC game where they each gave up a timeout to both wear their darks like they used to in the old days...
Some such articles that have gone up of mine that have gotten significant exposure toward bettering the markets are "A Remedy For Short-Selling Manipulation"- which has been embraced by the SEC (see- www.sec.gov/comments/s... ) and "Bill Introduced to Reinstate the Uptick Rule"
seekingalpha.com/artic...
bloggingstocker.blogsp...
-which has engendered a mass write-in campaign to Congress with investors supporting the Bill.
Hopefully- Congress and the SEC will also consider this article above, as well, towards the end result of helping investors.....GT McDuffy
Longs: Good luck on SIRI !
WTF's... WhoTF is driving this to .14?
koop
On Feb 18 11:02 AM relmar2003 wrote:
> 4 million shares sitting on .16 cents now..On the ask side there
> is one major block of 600k, but .17 seems obtainable.
On Feb 18 11:45 AM sl62 wrote:
> Today action = what a freaking joke...hey maybe we'll be back @ .05
> by 4!
bizarre
On Feb 18 11:49 AM sl62 wrote:
> taking out .13 heading for .12
I know that Scottrade won't Short stock under a $1. Are the MM"s allowed to short at these low levels?
thanks,
Koop
On Feb 18 11:53 AM sl62 wrote:
> Or...MM's are using shares they picked up yesterday and trying to
> shake out more short-term money. The worst thing that could have
> happened to us (if you were longer than the .06 -.20 news play) is
> that too many f'ing people were allowed to buy at those SP's....gotta
> be shook out before we can go up now...
Also, can someone tell me around when Q4 earnings will be released?
On Feb 18 12:15 PM Sirius Long Hauler wrote:
> Where are all the posts, have we moved to a different thread?
>
>
> Also, can someone tell me around when Q4 earnings will be released?
Indie investors can't short any stock below $5 because of not being marginable. But that's the reason given. The real reason is so you can't make money like the big boys. Yes, institutions can are the ones who can short anything at any price. even sub penny.
wild and downright angry action today. Possibles:
1. MM's want to shake out more indie's before moving up.
2. Shorts were ready. They covered yesterday then sold into it. MM's body slammed again today just like last week on Ergen news cause shorts put on pressure. This stock is way too weak to fend off determined shorts. No one knew how determined they'd be. Normally they just turn long and let the thing run more before slamming the door and driving back down. I'm a little surprised at this very short-term strategy for a few pennies. Better one for shorts would be take it up to .25 today then slam it. Maybe they'll start to figure that out. But again, could also be pure MM shakeout attempt at all that stupid buy money @ .06. Wish that never would have happened.
3. Hedge short shares from 2014 financing still in effect whenever needed.
Earnings Whisper says:
Earnings Whisper ®: N/A
Consensus Estimate: ($0.06)
Members' Estimate: N/A
Surprise Expectation 1: 75%/5%
Release Date: Not Confirmed 2/24/2009
After Close
One of my finance portals still says 2/23 BMO.
Having said that, the company ususally releases something about exactly when a week or two before. So not sure what to make of it all just yet. I hope it's next week...cause it should provide some motivation for buyers.
where did you read that?
Basically according to the SP the deal did nothing for Sirius. It was completely neutral. They dont want ,06 cent buyers possibly seeing the Q4, making them make there decision here to sell or lose all profits...
This core holding from .10 to .14 probably never sold when it hit .20 and if they sold when it hit .06, they are back in by now.
On Feb 18 12:32 PM connorport wrote:
> Guys! This is no more than the quick buck investors who bought in
> at .05-.07 and are dumping for an easy double or triple. We will
> level off by tomorrow and see some steady moves upwards im sure small
> amounts at a time.
Are your buys the reason we tanked today? LOL J/K
Just shorts and merciless MM's kicking a dog when it's down.
Oh and number 3 is this stupid unresolved May debt issue. No matter what MSM piles on, that has to be resolved here before the stock can really run. Well Mel...we're waiting!
I think 4 QTR are after close on the 24th. This activity it killing me, but next Tuesday should be fascinating.
yes very suspicious esp when one is James Radcliff's (analyst who "through his hands up in the air cause SIRI wasn't rading on fundementals), Barclays.
Let's don't forget NAB....wonder what instution or Hedgie they have in their pocket to go in here and short into any moves up....I wouldn't put it past 'em cause this action doesn't necessarily make sense for this stock today with market up.
www.businessweek.com/t...
On Feb 18 12:36 PM sl62 wrote:
> mogami_99...
>
> Are your buys the reason we tanked today? LOL J/K
>
> Just shorts and merciless MM's kicking a dog when it's down.
>
> Oh and number 3 is this stupid unresolved May debt issue. No matter
> what MSM piles on, that has to be resolved here before the stock
> can really run. Well Mel...we're waiting!
Pressure still on here...
Don't feel so bad. My original order for today was at .14....but I was afraid of missing out on a run....so I lost my nerve and changed it to .16....now I am mad at myself.....but at least I got more today...though as you it could have added up to several thousand more shares.
I REALLY want to see short interest and newest ownership #'s.
Carry on.
Today is not fitting the pattern I expected. We followed it pretty well before noon but since then we are supposed to be flat but instead have continued down.
On Feb 18 12:56 PM asm61064 wrote:
> mogami,
>
> Don't feel so bad. My original order for today was at .14....but
> I was afraid of missing out on a run....so I lost my nerve and changed
> it to .16....now I am mad at myself.....but at least I got more today...though
> as you it could have added up to several thousand more shares.
Standout points:
>>People with knowledge of Liberty Media say Malone and Maffei believe they're investing in a vastly undervalued asset.<<
>That could give Malone, who joins the Sirius board along with Maffei, the time he needs to make Sirius a working part of larger satellite ambitions<<
The latter is what I wrote about on the other thread. Easy to see SIRI wil eventually be Malones...either public or private. This is his way of locking up the assets. Mel is on his way to retirement and will give way to Malone, I say end of 2010. Mel and Howard leave together. By then Malone will have no use for Howard and his "2M subs" anyway. New sub growth by then will make him very expendable.
Bdp...that's the condensed version...
thought I read it on DJ News but was wrong. found where I got the Monday Am info. and trying to verify it.
koop
On Feb 18 12:54 PM sl62 wrote:
> We'll have to wait and see though now how this stock is going to
> trade from here out (with BK save news out). Todays swing is .1345
> - .184 = .05. It could be that this stock starts moving in larger
> chunks as it used to. maybe .03 - .04 moves up and down more de rigeur.
> I'd prefer that since on a little up streak we could rip off .10
> no problem and be trading more normally than before just being stuck
> in one penny moves... (albeit same on the downside though). It's
> just going to take a little while to understand the new patterns
> (if so it will be).
>
> Pressure still on here...
wait for .05 LOL!!
Cannot find anything for SIRI Q$ from now thru 1st week of March. Aren't these things sorta scheduled in advance? Oh ..I forgot we are dealing with Siri.
Our new partner Liberty, is doing his Q4 next Wed.
biz.yahoo.com/cc/L/LIN...
sorry for the mis-info sI62 and others.
koop
On Feb 18 01:11 PM koop127981 wrote:
> SL,
>
> thought I read it on DJ News but was wrong. found where I got the
> Monday Am info. and trying to verify it.
> koop
1. Announce board members are back purchasing shares on the open market.
2. Drill home the point to investors that if a better deal comes along, they will take it.
3. Mention at least one new revenue stream next week. Make the Iphone app a done deal by then, tell Apple to hurry and approve it by the q4.
4. File a lawsuit against Ergen for insider information.
I think NAB is partially behind this constant beat-down....if they have a Hedgie in the pocket (like we know they have congressmen), might be a while 'til a real run happens. I'm not doing this yo yo thing one more time. 2 is enough.
Good point on Ergen. He could be behind this too with Hedgies he's in bed with...all it takes is a phone call. Just too suspicious for me...
As said, I also just think it's too easy for all shorts right now. I see L3 was taken out back today too...just too easy right now.
Let's also don't foeget about Autos still up in the air and choking. SIRI has sooooo many headwinds it sick...
I agree to a point...but I still don't think it goes private. I also think he can't be the majority holder unless he sheds other assets..so he will put someone in charge of his choosing....and will keep his take and watch the money come in. Here's the part that caught my eye...nothing we didn't already talk about...but now its in print...so it must be possible! (lol)
"DirectTV already offers music from the Sirius XM service, but it could market the products to customers for use in their cars at a fraction of the current $12.95 monthly subscription fee for Sirius XM. Liberty could also harness unused satellite spectrum controlled by Sirius XM to offer more channels of video. "
chizzle1 3 Comments I wish I could get some work done instead of staring at this stock price all day long, everyday of the week. Feb 18 01:20 PM |Report abuse| Link | Reply 00
How long would it take the SEC to approve that you think?
How long does it take for JPM to roll the 250M one more year? Let's lock it up already....Malone's already intending on taking care of the UBS 100M. chop chop...
relmor...
I agree on the defending thing. I want to give Mel the room he needs. But I've always felt SIRI doesn't stick up for itself enough. And wish they could do insider buying if not for impending earnings release...
On Feb 18 01:35 PM 357519 wrote:
> Fo-Chizzle : )
>
> chizzle1 3 Comments I wish I could get some work done instead of
> staring at this stock price all day long, everyday of the week. Feb
> 18 01:20 PM |Report abuse| Link | Reply 00
Q4 earnings are expected to be announced before market hours on February 23, 2009Estimates: -0.06 | -0.066 | -0.08 (High | Mean | Low)
On Feb 18 01:11 PM koop127981 wrote:
> SL,
>
> thought I read it on DJ News but was wrong. found where I got the
> Monday Am info. and trying to verify it.
> koop
Q4 earnings are expected to be announced before market hours on February 23, 2009Estimates: -0.06 | -0.066 | -0.08 (High | Mean | Low)
On Feb 18 01:11 PM koop127981 wrote:
> SL,
>
> thought I read it on DJ News but was wrong. found where I got the
> Monday Am info. and trying to verify it.
> koop
That's kind of what I mean when I say "he" (Malone). As you say, whatever config he needs to set up to do it, he will take control of SATRAD eventually...it's just making too much sense..
good article!
I never noticed before in your picture...is that Mel K and a raft??
Even if they dont win, it will be a strong attack, something Sirius needs to do now. Deal from strength. Dazzle the market with new ideas and revenue steams(could care less if they work or are even possible). The need to dazzle is more important now than to be tightlipped and conservative. No more reasons to stay silent. There partnership is done. Bondholders demanding low conversion prices have been satisfied for now. Now its time to attack. Do you think Steve Jobs would sit back and watch his stock be destroyed by shorts? No way. He have a plan to take them out, and would be successful. His plan is to keep beating estimates, keep dazzling investors, and he talks a lot(used too) and was a very vocal reachable CEO. Mel is none of those things. If this company fails its his fault, completely. He should have never competed with XM for contracts if they knew they were just merging. I would have let XM win most of them, and watch them sink into the abyss. Meanwhile, he should have been adding talent for cheap, cut costs, and improve apps, retail sales, and advertising. Sirius does a terrible job marketing their products. How about signing Brad Pitt, or Angelina Jolie to parade around with a new sirius radio in a commercial. I can think of worse ways to spend a million dollars. As I come up with great ideas, and do almost everyone here, you have to begin to wonder what the hell is going on over there. They do nothing creative, and their marketing team is made up of 60 year old men who think that cool is Oprah and Mad Dog. They should have got Rome when his contract was running out. Jim Rhome would give you an instant 2 million subs EASY. EASY. HES HUGE on terrestrial radio.
Either management is setting up to run now that there deals are done, converts are happy with cheap shares, and all the insitutions bought low. Or they are the worst management team in history.
If I had satellite technology in the air, spectrum and the ability to draw 20 million listeners, I dont see how I wouldnt be turning a profit right now.
Tell the sports contracts that they will not be renued, right now. Tell them that upfront. Sorry too expensive. They will RUN to Mel to rework them. Economys changed. Sorry.
LMAO
Found the following on my Scottrade .
"The next earnings announcement is expected on 02/23/2009."
koop
On Feb 18 01:37 PM sl62 wrote:
> Hey Mel...
>
> How long does it take for JPM to roll the 250M one more year? Let's
> lock it up already....Malone's already intending on taking care
> of the UBS 100M. chop chop...
>
> relmor...
>
> I agree on the defending thing. I want to give Mel the room he needs.
> But I've always felt SIRI doesn't stick up for itself enough. And
> wish they could do insider buying if not for impending earnings release...
That is Malone with a life preserver and a headshot of Mel...taken from the post article.... I couldn't resist when I saw it!
based on your quote ..."Do you think Steve Jobs would sit back and watch his stock be destroyed by shorts? No way. He have a plan to take them out, and would be successful. His plan is to keep beating estimates, keep dazzling investors, and he talks a lot(used too) and was a very vocal reachable CEO. Mel is none of those things. If this company fails its his fault, completely. He should have never competed with XM for contracts if they knew they were just merging. I would have let XM win most of them, and watch them sink into the abyss"... maybe Mel knows exactly wht he is doing and the plan is to destroy this puppy...kill the longs...enrich those in his "club". not trying to be a conspiritory theorist, but if, as has been said many times mel is so frigging smart, he sure as hell doesn't exhibit he has any knowledge of how to run a public company...his stockholders are being raped...maybe he is going senile...everyone is entitled to it.
koop
On Feb 18 01:52 PM relmar2003 wrote:
> I would call Ergen and tell him it was a dumb move buying debt..With
> clayton on the board, i could make a case easy for insider trading.
> A little research and you might also find Ergen shorting this stock
> too, which would be a conflict of interests. You cant short the
> company your trying to buy.
> Even if they dont win, it will be a strong attack, something Sirius
> needs to do now. Deal from strength. Dazzle the market with new
> ideas and revenue steams(could care less if they work or are even
> possible). The need to dazzle is more important now than to be tightlipped
> and conservative. No more reasons to stay silent. There partnership
> is done. Bondholders demanding low conversion prices have been satisfied
> for now. Now its time to attack. Do you think Steve Jobs would
> sit back and watch his stock be destroyed by shorts? No way. He
> have a plan to take them out, and would be successful. His plan
> is to keep beating estimates, keep dazzling investors, and he talks
> a lot(used too) and was a very vocal reachable CEO. Mel is none
> of those things. If this company fails its his fault, completely.
> He should have never competed with XM for contracts if they knew
> they were just merging. I would have let XM win most of them, and
> watch them sink into the abyss. Meanwhile, he should have been adding
> talent for cheap, cut costs, and improve apps, retail sales, and
> advertising. Sirius does a terrible job marketing their products.
> How about signing Brad Pitt, or Angelina Jolie to parade around with
> a new sirius radio in a commercial. I can think of worse ways to
> spend a million dollars. As I come up with great ideas, and do almost
> everyone here, you have to begin to wonder what the hell is going
> on over there. They do nothing creative, and their marketing team
> is made up of 60 year old men who think that cool is Oprah and Mad
> Dog. They should have got Rome when his contract was running out.
> Jim Rhome would give you an instant 2 million subs EASY. EASY. HES
> HUGE on terrestrial radio.
> Either management is setting up to run now that there deals are done,
> converts are happy with cheap shares, and all the insitutions bought
> low. Or they are the worst management team in history.
> If I had satellite technology in the air, spectrum and the ability
> to draw 20 million listeners, I dont see how I wouldnt be turning
> a profit right now.
> Tell the sports contracts that they will not be renued, right now.
> Tell them that upfront. Sorry too expensive. They will RUN to Mel
> to rework them. Economys changed. Sorry.
sorry for the misspelling of your name :)
On Feb 18 02:02 PM koop127981 wrote:
> rolmore,
>
> based on your quote ..."Do you think Steve Jobs would sit back and
> watch his stock be destroyed by shorts? No way. He have a plan to
> take them out, and would be successful. His plan is to keep beating
> estimates, keep dazzling investors, and he talks a lot(used too)
> and was a very vocal reachable CEO. Mel is none of those things.
> If this company fails its his fault, completely. He should have never
> competed with XM for contracts if they knew they were just merging.
> I would have let XM win most of them, and watch them sink into the
> abyss"... maybe Mel knows exactly wht he is doing and the plan is
> to destroy this puppy...kill the longs...enrich those in his "club".
> not trying to be a conspiritory theorist, but if, as has been said
> many times mel is so frigging smart, he sure as hell doesn't exhibit
> he has any knowledge of how to run a public company...his stockholders
> are being raped...maybe he is going senile...everyone is entitled
> to it.
> koop
I agree with you there...the marketing and R&D teams leave alot to be desired at this point....but I could say the same for MSFT! They have failed MISERABLY with the Zune....and it's a good product. My wife loves it! But they were late out of the gate...and never recovered! If they had any real innovative thought....these two companies....and I have been beating this drum for a while, would build a Zune that also receives SATRAD...it's a win win for both..and could probably help MSFT gobble up some of APPLEs market share in the MP3 realm ! I know others here agree with me...so WTF are they waiting for! How about streaming your favorite SIRI music channel through your XBOX while you are playing a game..? Jeez...am I that much smarter than these execs on Wall Street?
thanks. So far 2/23 seems to be the concensus although Whisper did say 2/24 AMC. Somehow though, knowing Mel, why do I think it's going to be March 2?
good rant
And my thoughts after the merger and after was that Mel was intentionally destorying the SP. I believed his end game was to drop it as low as he could get it. Allow low convert prices, attract investors, and give the shorts(hes in bed with them, he allows them to operate, and even fueled their abilities). Part of that im sure was to make it easy for them to profit. Now that the SP has bottomed, I will NOW allow him to redeam himself. He has this year, like he said, give him 09 to turn their balance sheet around. I will give him his time. If the end game is to BK the company, he had his chance. NOthing left to destroy on the sp now. Its bottomed. .03 cents is about as low as you can go, unless you actually file. That being said, you should see an entirely new attitude from Mel and this company. Malone isnt going to sit back and watch Mel tank this company, He now has accountability. When you get as old as Mel, your reputation means more to you than when you are younger. His legacy is important to all high level, big money execs. There are many possible end games. Heres some I have mentioned in the past.
1.Banks want control of this company. They want to control content(government is the banks by the way..One and the same.)
2. Mel wants to buy out the company and take it private. This requires a low SP to be able to do this.
3. There is a third party pulling the strings. This is the eventual owner. Might not even be Liberty, hence the clause to terminate deal if a better one comes along.
4. Destroy the common investor, ruin the companys outlook, change of ownership(volume dicates this is possible the last week or so_ and then run up the price. Maybe even gap up .50 cents or more overnight one day. Huge gains for all who bought low. Were talking HUGE gains. And since stock is "perception" of value , or intrinsic in a lot of ways, they could accomplish this even with a negative cash flow.
5. I dont buy this one. NAB is behind the shorting, and its just being vengeful to the minimum. Maximum is they take the company to BK, although shorting a stock cant make your file bk. But it can affect credit terms and interest payments, willingness of bonds to convert to shares..etc...
6. Mels just a bad CEO, and the board is as clueless.
7. BK XM only(this one I like).
nice schematic on possibilities. well thought out. appreciate your feelings.
koop
On Feb 18 02:17 PM relmar2003 wrote:
> Actual you can stream sirius through your XBOX already.
F***ing justice does exist!
Koop
On Feb 18 02:30 PM koop127981 wrote:
> Rel,
> nice schematic on possibilities. well thought out. appreciate your
> feelings.
> koop
The following post has some humor to it. Guess whats the humor and what's not!!
PS asm61064- The SS. Sirius (see my Pic) is missing a life preserver. You wouldn't know where it is, would you??
David Letterman's Top Ten way to get Sirius over a Dollar
10) Announce A great 4Q 2008
9) Sirius Xm MP3 now available
8) Sirius Portables supports Text Messaging
7) Sirius XM May 2009 Debt resolved
6) Sirius XM Oct 2009 Debt Resolved
5) Sirius XM Dec 2009 Debt resolved
4) XM Satellites in Orbit bought by Malone at 1/2 face value
3) Malone is paid fully with Sattelite funds
2) Sirius XM Licenced in Japan & China
and the number one way to get Sirius over a buck!
1) Place a dollar bill under your receiver
I have 2000 shares in my personal account and 3000 in my IRA account.. I bought at 17, 14, 12, 11, and 8 cents..i'm a new investor..i love my Sirius, and i was also giddy at the thought of actually making some money, but watched it get to 22 and then peter all the way back down.. probably be a couple years before we make real money with this stock..
Mel and SIRI have an impressive list of powerful enemies who want to see the company and SP fail...I keep forgetting this when the stock looks like it could actually run...
The .21 - .44 squeeze was fueled by shorts still having fear of like .60/.80. Then Mel waiting until the 11th hour again, granted saved us from CHTR's current SP fate, but it showed the shorts tremendous weakness overall. That's why they now have no fear. relmor, you're right...Mel has got to start attacking in the media and reinstill fear of the downside. I hope he understands this concept...
MY concern is considering their product marketing is so weak, they won't understand how to media blitz on the financials...hope i'm wrong...
A few more (realistic) ways to get over a dollar. But that wouldn't have made the last post funny!
Domestic Auto Sales Stabilize
Domestic Auto Sales Rise
SIRIUS Announces A great 1Q 2009
SIRIUS Announces A great 2Q 2009
SIRIUS Announces A great 3Q 2009
This stock has been beeten down by every bad news possible. It would take a string of positive news to maintain upward momemtum. Although the GS margin call news item puts a smile on my face!
Heres a small sampling...
1. Sirius is Seriously still in trouble...
2. Sirius needs more money... SERIOUSLY.
3. Seriously? Sirius still needs more debt resolution.
4. Are you Sirius? Content who cares.
Good stuff! You had me grinnin from ear to ear! Thanks for the humor injection...we all need them now and again.
Ps...My SIRI is now over 5..based on the 5 dollar bill sitting under it!
I gotta believe that Mel was holding more than nuts in hand when he was talking to Malone about financing! Because of that....I am still holding to the thought that Q4 numbers beat expectations and then some! Malone ...for all his greatness...still looks at the bottom line, which means" show me the money"!
Truer words never spoken!
1. Cramer said the stock is quote"worthless" At minimum he should be suspended by CNBC for reporting false facts. Last time i checked, and it might be .09 cents now, it was at .14 cents. Not worthless.
2. WSJ is still not convinced they arent filing BK... THIS YEAR.
3. Barrons reprints and adds to all WSJ main articles. Same dishrag.
4. CNBC hates the stock. Wouldnt wish it on their worst enemies. Still the only penny stock Ive ever heard mentioned on CNBC. Interesting...
5. Marketwatch says sell Sirius at any price(thats summarizing based on comments)
6. Ipods/MP3 players/Interent has destroyed SATRD.
7. Car sales declining means NO NEW SUBS for this year(once again summarizing).
8. They are POSITIVE they have declining sub base. So basically their q4 subs will be lower than q3.
9. Stock is only traded by fools(this is unanimous).
10. Common will be destroyed at some point(this is talked as almost a guarantee).
11. Malone deal has made this stock worthless. And it was a good deal only for Malone. Sirius got hosed... AGAIN. So far, market hates the deal, feels SP would be higher if they filed bk. Apparently.
The more I stew with this...you gotta ask. OK so Mel does another semi-ugly deal...this deal in-of-itself is not brain surgery. It's a few handshakes, slaps on the back and some papers being drawn up. We know there were only two suitors for saving SIRI. Ergen and Malone. Mel and BOD already knew Ergen had the debt yet he never announced it. That's a mistake right there. Who knows when he found out but I assure you it wasn't th eday before we found out in the press. Why on earth did we wait this long to just cut the damn deal with Malone. Like in January when the SP was holding it's own. Waiting until the clock struck 12 was a horrible strategy and once again commoners are payng for it.
Listen. I stand by my comments of being grateful for this deal over BK. I'm humble enough to realize it. But now by how vulnerable we have been left, it's open season even after the news. I could see if this deal was so much better than Ergens or Malone's and Mel had to wait it out to get it..but that is not this. Instead, now we're sitting ducks at the mercy of more news, more this, more that to overcome this tough selling pressure from shorts who take pleasure in doing this right here. Ugh....
I tell you right now. With this news yesterday, there is no way we should be choking on .1430. More like .2430 should be the order of the day today (after opening at .28). Sorry Mel, I love ya, but it's your fault...shareholders get the shaft again.
good stuff...
Let's dont also forget that little clause Mel and BOD's had put in the deal. They still have until April 15 to back out of this deal. They would owe Malone 7M for his trouble but there it is. I know the market LOVED that little diddy...NOT.
So many hits to the common, so little time. LOL
Starting to see more green numbers on my board....looks like a little run up into the close...
Your right about timing sl62.
TIMING MR MEL. They don't say "TIMING ISN'T EVERYTHING IT'S THE ONLY THING" for nothing bro...
Personally, I still doubt that Mel K. gives a flying rats arse about us or the SP....he's just proven it to the extreme by waiting until the 11th hour on a deal that could have easily been consummated AT LEAST a month ago, given the terms we know of and with whom it was done...what a joke....
Otherwise, MSM you cant have it both ways. Either Malone is stupid, or hes not. You cant say hes a genius, and great guy, and Mel is stupid, and SATRD is dead. Then Malone might never get back his money, and his common is worthless. He did the deal for money that is on the back end of bank debt, and senior notes. He might not even get assets out of it, but told to wait, as you were the "newest debtor". The assets if any sold, might go to pay bank debt, and newer due bonds, sports contracts, etc..Bas
Heres another flaw with the MSM logic stream(one of many)
If Malone did the deal to screw Ergen, and SATRD is dead, and a money pit, then why not let him have it? Hes be wasting his investment. The equipment is supposedly only configed for Radio... So.. Why bother. Why waste time and money to stop a partnership if its a bad parternship. MSM you need to get in a room, and meet, and decide which angles your going to lie about, because you dont make sense. You want your cake and eat it too. People are stupid, but not everyone. You make yourselves look stupid. MSM is going by the wayside after all this, i Hope as a source of reliable information. No warning of the recession. No warning of the housing bubble. No warning of anythign important. No worhtwhile coverage. Just a bunch of cute people saying cute things, and talking about all the wrong angles, on all the wrong subjects. If the MSM did its joke, we wouldnt be posting here, wed all be on the WSJ comment page.
Stock jumps up to $2 over night!!WHEHEH
Malone comes out and says things will be diffently now, we didnt know it in time, but Mel was running this company INSANE. Hes now locked away where he cant hurt anyone anymore. Im the new shefiff in town, and LOOK AT MY BUSINESS PLAN WORLD. Great plan Sirius, If thats the end game, I LOVE IT!!!Of course im joking, but it sure would explain a lot!!
That's where we all come in...we are the sheepdogs protecting all the sheep from the predatory wolves out there.
sorry..this is really starting to piss me off...i have to chill.
"Im crazy". Literally. He meant"Im going crazy, but he would shorten the saying..."
NOTHING is funnier than watching this old guy with an english accent and messed up crazy hair walking around the shop everynow and then, muttering , "Im crazy". I can see Mel in the halls doing this right now.
Parsons's is calling Malone saying you need to get over here and look at this. I think the old man has finally lost it.
On Feb 18 03:51 PM Bababooie wrote:
> DOC & CITI buyng??? Could be they are seeing that they could start
> financing auto sales.. I live in Detroit area and regularly drive
> by a number of plants. Coming or going I used to run into rush hour
> by the plants. Right now , it's clear sailing. When I start having
> to avoid shift change, it means they're back to work!! I hope I run
> into traffic soon
I agree with you that Mel cares SQUAT about us. That, I think even cos1000 will agree with. In otherwords...could care less. That's always been one of my bones...shareholders constantly under the bus. No matter what. Not one word of thanks or anything from management during "these tough times". I don't need a gift, I expect at least to be recognized for supporting the home team. But as usual we get no mention in the deal or any note from management. Maybe it's still coming but I highly doubt it.
LMAO on your scenario...
1. Hes not capable of running the company..(removal)
2. Hes doing it on purpose(jail)
IF they found out about the debt too late, and Malone was indeed a last minute arrival, why not tell the stockholders the deal. Isnt it ultimately our decision to sell our common anyway? Wouldnt he need approval? You can just wipeout the common by waving a wand? If Ergen was the only deal from Dec till now, why didnt Ergen contact the stockholders directly through the media, to make its case... a la Microsoft.
yes Mel is definitely crazy...LMAO...
what's this? back up to .15 woooohooo..
I guess with SIRI it's the SMALL favors that count. 125M sh today and probably 90M were sells.
MEL "Jeez why didn't these folks sell at 1.50"
MEL "Jeez why didn't these folks sell at 1.00"
MEL " Jeez thats the last time I snoop the Yahoo message boards"
On Feb 18 03:53 PM sl62 wrote:
> relmor...
>
> I agree with you that Mel cares SQUAT about us. That, I think even
> cos1000 will agree with. In otherwords...could care less. That's
> always been one of my bones...shareholders constantly under the bus.
> No matter what. Not one word of thanks or anything from management
> during "these tough times". I don't need a gift, I expect at least
> to be recognized for supporting the home team. But as usual we get
> no mention in the deal or any note from management. Maybe it's still
> coming but I highly doubt it.
>
> LMAO on your scenario...
Twice in a row now and we're f'd both times LOL
I ask anyone. Is it too much to ask after 6 hard months of having your can kicked, to actually get a little positive SP sentiment going? Who do we have to blow? Cause I'll do it if I have to...LOL (disclaimer: ONLY if it makes this frigging SP go higher and stay there! And I would need an iron clad guarooonteee it would...then I would need a bottle of Sauza to help me forget what I just did)...desperate times...desperate measures.
If you take the medias word for how it played out, Mel did good.
If you are suspicious like me and sl62 and others, then its purposeful..
There is an end game. It may be the most obvious, typical wall street game. Sell shares high, buy them low. Sell them to commoners, buy them on the cheap from commoners back. Run up. Repeat.
Lets all hope thats it, and not the other choice... Mel will one day finalize our coffins with this stock price by continuing his current terrible timing.
As we have said many times before...throw logic and common sense out the window with this stock! I have many questions as to why they work in a bubble and leave the common shareholder in the dark...but we will never get the answer to that question. Maybe we aren't "smart or savy" enough for Mel. Maybe all he was ever in this for was to line his and Howards pockets after they got shit on at WFAN.
Siri is not going BK. Siri is going up. Their incompetence gave me a lot of aggravation, but their incompetence also gave me the opportunity to buy lots of shares at ridiculously cheap prices.
I am not celebrating their failures, I am just trying to point out the silver lining in today's cloud. I know this doesn't help those of you that bought at 3 or whatever and did not avg down, but it has given a lot of opportunity to take advantage of the big upside bound to come. Maybe 2 months. Maybe 6. Maybe even 12. But it is coming.
This company will not only survive, I believe it will thrive. I am finding some sick humor in the hopes that Malone bounces Mel/siri management over the next several months and us loyal longs get to participate in the upside that Mel brought about...while he sits at home.
Oh, and I need to figure out how to avoid my father in law after recommending he buy at .17. Dude already called me today. This is just about the first time I have ever recommended to someone to buy something in particular. I usually avoid that at all costs. Oh well.
I hope that made sense...I kind of just rambled...
Carry on.
you owe me a f-ing new keyboard. LOLF
haven't laughed like this in a while!
koop
On Feb 18 04:07 PM sl62 wrote:
> aaaaaand...they dump it right at the end....I swear, this stock might
> have me start rambling "I'm crazy, "I'm crazy"
>
> I ask anyone. Is it too much to ask after 6 hard months of having
> your can kicked, to actually get a little positive SP sentiment going?
> Who do we have to blow? Cause I'll do it if I have to...LOL (disclaimer:
> ONLY if it makes this frigging SP go higher and stay there! And I
> would need an iron clad guarooonteee it would...then I would need
> a bottle of Sauza to help me forget what I just did)...desperate
> times...desperate measures.
that's what has me stewed. Now that we know the details, players and options, and the euphoria has worn off...many things do not add up about this where we shareholders are concerned. As you say, why were we not notified someone was tryng to take over OUR company..this is the biggest proof that Mel and BOD;s condiser us an afterthought. We should have been told by our management, not have to read about it in a news release, not even by the company. If you recall, in the last month on this, there was ONE release by our management of this deal: That was yesterdays 8K. Someone waas trying to take this company from us...shouldn't we know about it?
Further, we were given no info about any of the deals. We're like slaves to Mel. Sad. As I said, knowing what we know, this deal should have, could have been wrapped up in Jan, no question. they had to know Egen bought the debt tranche. They also reportedly were given an umtimatum offer by Ergen in Dec at 1.37sh...which many of us would have been overjoyed with actually..hehehe. Esp cause it would have overshot in trading on short cover. But that aside, if you are going to reject that, you know your only move is to Malone. I'm pissed.
You are correct. Again, I'm venting mainly becaue of what we went through today. NO follow-through and it's because of the reasons we've been ranting on. As said, I'd rather close today @ .145 than .02. I'm starting to get worried though that we may be headed back down there if Mel doesn't solidify SIRI's position on this. Right now the Street's not buying it. And it's because of lack of timing, forthrightedness, and timeframe. We've all been beat up big time on this SP and todays beating just hurt a lot more cause I thought we were done with the beatings out back. Guess not.
Like you said, the future is to be looked to. We just need some healing time on our wounds.
asm...
We'll keep fighting the good fight.
See you guys tomorrow...
All good points today.
I'm crazy, I'm crazy....
As a matter of fact, I had the added torture today of the father in law - so, I see this thing's not going up. I've already lost money. What are you thinking on this. How do you jam 6 months+ of research and all the details and craziness of this stock to some guy who you are just trying to do a favor. Luckily his daughter still thinks I am the greatest thing since sliced bread :) Boy, do I have her fooled...
Talk up Malone and the fact he knows how to make money, coupled with the fact he is taking a ton of shares. Why would he want worthless shares?
He is looking to make money period!
One... 4,233,000 AH trade at 4:16 today.
it does hurt that we are back to 0.14.....I have averaged down to 0.5 from 2.5 and it is so close yet so far
I guess it comes down to the definition of "strong FCF" is. Also while the debt did bring the PPS down it will still be there just in another form and/or pushed back. Yes bankruptcy fears also did its job on the PPS at .5. There are other things that were included (as said already by I think Newman) like the bad economy and the credit freeze. So while there should be some kind of pop in the PPS I just dont think it will be as high as many think. I really dont want to have to get into the same argument about there not being any short squeez after the merger. Learn from history so you dont repeat it. As I said before, I said those things before (about no short sqeeze) because I dont want to get peoples hopes up, then it does not happen and what did we get all the pissing and moaning at the company and Mel.
P.S. I would like nothing more then for the PPS to go as high as some seem to think. The thing that keeps me sane is that I dont think it will and I stay grounded so when it does not happen, NO WORRIES.
Did you see if that was a buy at 4 million shares or was it a sell of 4 million shares that took mulitple orders to fill?
A bunch of numbers, I am starting to feel you man...
I cant blame the MM's on Mels bad timing, and the crappy deal. If he was offered 1.37 a share, and nothing told to stockholders, isnt that against his CEO conditions? Legal document? Charter ? Something? Can I call Ergen and accept on behalf of all shareholders? LOL
Heres some positives for today...
SL62 said there were 75% sells, vs. buys. Good news. Means small lots were being sold all day. Small lot holders are usually retail investors. If there were 75% more SELLERS holding LARGE BLOCKS, than we might be at .05 cents right now...Does this make sense? Or am I wrong here?
Im starting to see your point about whos to blame here. As I read more conjecture articles about Sirius today, I wonder why I have to read them at all. Your right, Id rather not be BK today, and I did buy a lot of shares at .05 cents, so it wasnt totally a negative for me.
My point as was sl62(first to mention) was that Mel's constant silence is now beyond incompetance, but at least IMMORAL, or maybe illegal or at least in violation of his conditions as CEO. If an offer to purchase the company cant leak, but BK can, what are we to think about the validity of anythign they say do, or we hear? Is this not manipulation by the company , as I have been saying? A bunch of numers, youve seen how they run this thing over there longer, does this behavior since the merger typify there style/communication level to shareholders. I remember the Yahoo/Microsoft debacle.
The offered price was public knowledge, forget shareholder only knowledge, etc...
That allows outside bidders to come in, large share holders to speak out, and efforts to determine what the best deal is for stockholders suffers. Mels only job is to us, not anything else. Maybe the offer AT 1.37 is what pissed him off. Has anyone CONFIRMED this? If so, can I sue? I would have accepted it, made a ton of money, and been done with this pig a long time ago. Is he holding out for better? Was he offered better? Does he know something so big it would be a joke to sell at that price?
See what Im doing here.
Im asking questions I have no clue as to the answers. This shouldnt be the case.
I own AUY too.
Yamana gold.
I know there game plan, I know what they are mining, what they plan to mine, and that they have acquiring plans in mind(taking on debt for mining companies means only one thing)
I know they have a copper hedge, and is why they missed their quarter. I know there business suffers when the mine locations currency appreciates vs. the dollar. I believe their guidance. The only mystery involved in AUY is the price of gold, copper, and the value of the dollar(all things I can track) I completely control my information if i need to buy or sell this stock. I have control.
With owning Sirius, I feel like an a**hole. I know nothing about whats going on . NOthing about their plans, and nothing about the other deal. I know nothing. I dont know if they are doing well in 09 yet, as I still dont know what happened in 08. They are literally the last company to always report earning(exagerrating a bit here), and never give concise PLANS for how they are going to GROW, AND GENERATE PROFITS. Nothing. Its like they dont want us to own this stock. Now, are they doing that because they like us, or because this stock is a gold mine waiting to take off.
I own it, because I believe the latter. but if i didnt believe everything I read, or seen the manipulation, or the illogic of their actions, I would be running for the hills. I wouldnt touch a stock that treated their stockholders as I have been treated. Since the merger they have done NOTHING to generate value to the stock. They pissed the price away so bad, that it no longer was able to remove debt obligations. They allowed the media SOOO much time to write about Sirius, it makes me sick. I dont really care anymore. I just want the last proof I need. A bad showing by Mel in the next two quarters, and I see the end game. If this stock is going to jump, its going to jump on its lowest confidence levels it can have. Were are near there. Hang tight. Interesting times ahead.
As bad as I bad mouth management, I still feel they are just trying to throw us off, to pad the wallets of other holders.
can you help me confirm that the 4 million shares at close was a buy, not a sell. I would appreciate the confirmation for everyone here.
Long SiriusXM
I saw the 4 mil trade on NASDQ after hours site. Doesn't show if buy or sell, just a trade.
I'll check at home after I leave work and let you know if I can find out.
If you find out before me let me know please.
thanks,
koop
On Feb 18 05:39 PM relmar2003 wrote:
> Hey...
> Did you see if that was a buy at 4 million shares or was it a sell
> of 4 million shares that took mulitple orders to fill?
> A bunch of numbers, I am starting to feel you man...
> I cant blame the MM's on Mels bad timing, and the crappy deal. If
> he was offered 1.37 a share, and nothing told to stockholders, isnt
> that against his CEO conditions? Legal document? Charter ? Something?
> Can I call Ergen and accept on behalf of all shareholders? LOL
>
> Heres some positives for today...
> SL62 said there were 75% sells, vs. buys. Good news. Means small
> lots were being sold all day. Small lot holders are usually retail
> investors. If there were 75% more SELLERS holding LARGE BLOCKS,
> than we might be at .05 cents right now...Does this make sense?
> Or am I wrong here?
We are in the process of trying to integrate our new partner, The Not So White Knight, but my heroe, Mr Malone in company, and still do not have a fully restructured debt plan for 2009 as promised for March 1st. That is a big reason why the stock price is still very vulnerable. Everyone hates uncertainty and this company exudes it. I am a believer, but have found myself in relmor's older Enlish Gentleman's place many times.
The amount of negative press that is pounding this company right now is simply amazing... I am very encouraged by this. They are worried and for good reason if all that good be, is...
The 4Q CC has not been announced in a press release from the company yet. All of the electronic Trading Houses have been posting 2/23 as an estimated date for weeks now. I don't think they will announce the 4Q until their restructuring plan for all of the 2009 debt is complete. I mentioned yesterday some ominous wording about Superior Offers allowing Sirius Xm to terminate the Investment Agreement and I still think that language is relevant to the restructuring of 2009 debt. Not necessarily a buy out offer from anyone, but the door is still open, and Malone makes money no matter what. I will say I have not heard or read anything from Ergen since yesterday's lifeline announcement. "I might be going crazy", but if Ergen offered 1.37 in December, (and I have not seen anyone confirm this), then why not now offer more.... Wasn't everyone saying that is what Malone likes to do in his rivalry with Ergen: get into the mix so Ergen has to pay more for the deal. All I am saying, and I am speculating here, is the Door Is Open...... for that to happen.....
Back to the the MSM, everyone who can author an article has written one today and very few have gotten the facts straight. Look at this article, "I just want to get the information out about reverse splits to everyone", and I'll use Sirius Xm as an example out of the other 300 equities I could have chosen. What this wasn't an issue for the other 299 companies last week or the week before... You wrote this article now because you know how many people follow Sirius Xm as opposed to any other loser company trading at .10 cents, period. Okay I'm done read all of the above posts, agree with the frustration, but all that's happened so far is we avoided BK and the pinks, and need to (again) wait for more news.... what's new? Hang in there everyone....
Some info:
The shares being offered for sale under this prospectus supplement and the accompanying prospectus were originally issued by us pursuant to the note purchase agreement, dated February 13, 2009, among us, our wholly owned subsidiaries XM Satellite Radio Holdings Inc., XM 1500 Eckington LLC and XM Investment LLC, and the selling stockholders.
Pursuant to the note purchase agreement, XM Satellite Radio Holdings Inc. agreed to issue to certain holders of its outstanding 10% Convertible Notes due 2009 (the “old notes”), including the selling stockholders, $172,485,000 in aggregate principal amount of Senior PIK Secured Notes due 2011 (the “exchange notes”) in exchange for a like principal amount of old notes. The exchange notes are fully and unconditionally guaranteed by XM 1500 Eckington LLC and XM Investment LLC, our wholly-owned subsidiaries, and are secured by a lien on certain real and personal property held by such entities.
In addition, we paid these holders of old notes a fee, per $1,000 aggregate principal amount of old notes exchanged, in the amount of either (1) 833 shares of our common stock or (2) $50 cash, at each selling stockholder’s election. We agreed pursuant to the note purchase agreement to file this prospectus supplement to register these shares for resale.
The exchange notes and the shares of common stock were issued in private placement transactions exempt from the registration requirements of the Securities Act of 1933, as amended (the “Securities Act”), pursuant to Section 4(2) thereof.
The following table sets forth certain information on or around the date hereof concerning the shares of common stock that may be offered from time to time by each selling stockholder pursuant to this prospectus supplement. The information is based on information provided by or on behalf of the selling stockholders. Other than the transactions described above and except as set forth in the table below, none of the selling stockholders nor any of its affiliates, officers, directors or principal equity holders (5% or more) has held any position or office or has had any other material relationship with us or XM Inc. (or our or XM Inc.’s predecessors or affiliates) during the past three years.
Percentage of
Number of Outstanding
Shares of Shares of
Common Common
Percentage of Stock Stock
Outstanding Beneficially Beneficially
Shares of Shares of Shares of Owned After Owned After
Common Common Common Sale of All Sale of All
Stock Stock Stock That Shares That Shares That
Beneficially Beneficially May be May be May be
Owned Prior Owned Prior Offered Offered Offered
Name to Offering to Offering (1) Hereby Hereby Hereby
Long Island International Limited(2) 17,589,844 * 16,660,000 — —
Canyon Capital Arbitrage Master Fund, Ltd (3) 5,365,185 * 3,948,420 — —
The Canyon Value Realization Fund (Cayman), Ltd (3) 5,852,594 * 4,648,140 — —
Canyon Value Realization Mac 18 Ltd.(3) 391,230 * 395,675 — —
Canyon Value Realization Fund, LP(4) 2,239,309 * 1,836,765 — —
Radcliffe SPC, Ltd. for and on behalf of the Class A Segregated Portfolio(5) 7,142,075 * 4,360,755 — —
Goldman, Sachs & Co.(6) 40,587,171 1.07% 27,329,064 — —
* Less than 1%.
(1) Calculated based on Rule 13d-3(d)(1)(i) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, as amended, using 3,792,034,824 shares of common stock outstanding as of February 11, 2009.
(2) Long Island International Limited is under common control with Barclays Capital Inc.
(3) Canyon Capital Advisors LLC is the investment advisor for Canyon Capital Arbitrage Master Fund, Ltd., The Canyon Value Realization Fund (Cayman), Ltd. and Canyon Value Realization Mac 18 Ltd. and has the power to direct investments by Canyon Capital Arbitrage Master Fund, Ltd., The Canyon Value Realization Fund (Cayman), Ltd and Canyon Value Realization Mac 18 Ltd. The managing partners of Canyon Capital Advisors LLC are Joshua S. Friedman, Mitchell R. Julis, and K. Robert Turner. Canyon Capital Arbitrage Master Fund, Ltd. and The Canyon Value Realization Fund (Cayman), Ltd. are Exempt Companies incorporated in the Cayman Islands with limited liability.
(4) The general partner of Canyon Value Realization Fund, LP is Canpartners Investments III, L.P. and as such has the voting power (the general partner of Canpartners Investments III, L.P. is Canyon Capital Advisors LLC). Canyon Capital Advisors LLC is the investment advisor of Canyon Value Realization Fund, L.P. and as such, has the power to direct investments by Canyon Value Realization Fund, L.P. The managing partners of Canyon Capital Advisors LLC are Joshua S. Friedman, Mitchell R. Julis, and K. Robert Turner. Canyon Value Realization Fund, L.P. is a limited partnership formed in Delaware.
(5) Pursuant to an investment management agreement, Radcliffe Capital Management, L.P. (“Radcliffe Capital”) serves as the investment manager of Radcliffe SPC, Ltd.’s Class A Segregated Portfolio. RGC Management Company, LLC (“Management”) is the general partner of Radcliffe Capital. Steve Katznelson and Gerald Stahlecker serve as the managing members of Management. Each of Radcliffe Capital, Management and Messrs. Katznelson and Stahlecker disclaim beneficial ownership of securities owned by Radcliffe SPC, Ltd. for and on behalf of the Class A Segregated Portfolio.
(6) Goldman, Sachs & Co. is an indirect, wholly-owned subsidiary of The Goldman Sachs Group, Inc., a publicly-traded company. In accordance with the Securities and Exchange Commission Release No. 34-39538 (January 12, 1998) (the “Release”), this filing reflects the securities beneficially owned by certain operating units (collectively, the “Goldman Sachs Reporting Units”) of The Goldman Sachs Group, Inc. and its subsidiaries and affiliates (collectively, “GSG”). This filing does not reflect securities, if any, beneficially owned by any operating units of GSG whose ownership of securities is disaggregated from that of the Goldman Sachs Reporting Units in accordance with the Release. The Goldman Sachs Reporting Units disclaim beneficial ownership of the securities beneficially owned by (i) any client accounts with respect to which the Goldman Sachs Reporting Units or their employees have voting or investment discretion, or both and (ii) certain investment entities of which the Goldman Sachs Reporting Units act as the general partner, managing general partner or other manager, to the extent interests in such entities are held by persons other than the Goldman Sachs Reporting Units.
pulled from form 424 filed on the 17th!
Had another minute to check in...whew. Today might have been the toughest day I've had with this stock. I still think like 163888 and relmor believe, there had to be a shake out of more of the .06 money before we move higher. We are also being manipulated (what else is new with SIRI SP) still by MSM. Look at that clown Eric Savitz's article. Almost all the negative comments from analysts he could dig up. Most say, "Maybe they saved BK...Yeah but their long-term prognosis is bleak" (paraphrasing). These guys just won't quit. Look at this very article? Why does this guy feel COMPELLED apparently, to headline SIRI's ISSUES OF REVERSING. Nice timing whatever your name is!! Plus you wrote a book about nothing new. Just couldn't wait to get this info in a headline huh????Congratulations bro!! What's your encore. I can't wait!!!! And where is Mel and Co? How about another press release today from the company reiterating their belief in the future to shut these m'fers up? We get nothing. And without that kind of thing, all that's left for the Street is confusion. And that's why we got taken out back today. We are still as vulnerable as we were Monday night. Relmor's right. Had there been a real iniative with bigger blocks today, we would have seen .10. For some reason we held .13. But there's always tomorrow. With same kind of take down tomorrow, we could see .105 intraday...which I'm not looking forward to but so be it. I'm still not selling here. It doesn't really make much sense but we're stuck with a lack of communication by Mel. Why after all this time is the May bank not extended? I have noooooo clue. I'm shocked that wasn't announced in this package. What's hard about that? It's yes or no isn't it? What does Mel have to negotiate that too? Doesn't like that rate either so he'll think about his "options" (of which there are none) for two more months? Now that he's given away 40% of the company WTF is he waiting for? Easter? While I'm grateful for "a" deal over BK, I'm now upset that Mel waited until the 11th hour...now for the second time. Since we're not told anything by our company, all we have is conjecture. And mine through knowing what I have access to, says Mel could have done this deal with Malone at least a month ago. The market was better, there would have been no Ergen rumor and BK threat, there would have been no .06 flood buying, and our SP would have shot up much higher on this same news. IMHO opinion, this is something to be displeased about. Again Mel, TIMING. Stop this 11th hour crap. Maybe he doesn't know what to do, so he waits until there is no more time than to HAVE to make a decision. I just don't get it. The other thing as relmor says...all we really got from our own company was through the wires and it was Mel quoted threatening to BK the company if they can't reach a deal. What? Then this is the deal? Why didn't Mel say they wre close to a deal instead of threatening BK on Tuesday? This is not a very nuanced deal. It's pretty clean. Malone gets a lot and SIRI staves off BK. Where are the intricasies and hard bargain rates that would support a thesis of worthwhile negotioations INTO the 11th hour? i just don't see it. Maybe Mel waited because he really wanted to BK and was going to but in the end he just couldn't bear to pull the trigger on himself. For that we certainly are lucky. Or maybe he just didn't know what the hell to do. I hope we start to get more communication from the company and see itself start to fight back. I have given a pass on this to allow Mel the time to work the necessry deals. Now, that's done, I expect much more from Mel and Co. Period. Fat chance I mean anything to them but you get the idea...
Look. I'm sticking with this stock for at least through earnings. I will then evaluate then and see what I'm going to do. Some of us believers willing to stick around just got smoked by true hit and run bottom feeders and our own management's incompetence. I do think though the deal got done and it is better than BK, our management were not looking out for us, market conditions et al (per usual). They seem to be like a bull in a china shop. A big part of the reason for us sitting at .145 today is 1. No May bank news and 2. Unsure language of the deal itself and 3. 11th hour save looks weak and desperate. Shorts pounce on the weak. Now I wish I would have sold all my shares both times in pre and bought back in on day 2 since there was to be a pummeling both times. Next time I won't be so shy knowing how much SIRI is still hated by so many and with the company doing nothing on their own behalf to quell all the hate. So it's going to probably take a while before the shorts let this one up and running. I would say this to others. If your time window on this is 6 months or longer, no worries. This SP will gain power in the future at some point this year. There is reason to buy and hold here into the summer. My window is a little shorter since I've already eaten up a good 8 months on this stock, which for a spec stock with volitility, is a long time before any kind of payoff. Generally that's called a dog with fleas...no offense to our great killer and our dog...just an expression LOL...But for me it's a long time. But for others, if you planned on holding in here, this year(ish) I would say you have nothing to worry about and will make some decent coin eventually. Although if today was any portend of the future, I'm forced to adjust my price target to maybe .40 if it's lucky. This co is not going to BK. But it's looking like the Street won't be taking their foot of SIRI's neck for some time. Why should they I guess? SIRI shows nothing that they even care.
Anyway..that's my takeaway from today. Not encouraging for sure for short-term movement... that by all rights should happen. Most other stocks would have jacked on such news. SIRI and Mel are just a different breed. They have a lot of enemies..which is tough to overcome when so many are gunning for you. I'm also concerned about this article's headline to REMIND all of the Street that this stock will have to reverse soon this year. THANKS AGAIN WHATEVER YOUR NAME IS!! Investors run away from impending rev splits. They'd rather wait until after the split and so people will bail rather than go through the uncertainty (or not buy). This may now just prevent some who were thinking of getting in down here to just wait until fall until the split is done. We could be looking at a buyers strike. Which means SP languishes rest of this year until the RS. And day traders and shorts dominate this stock just like a true penny stock. Which would be sad cause this is a good product and a well-intentioned company and is better than being down here in the dirt.. That's why next opportunity I have on a pop into the .20's I'm getting out and staying liquid to trade this thing. Given the way this deal news was ill-received, it looks to me much more unpredictable than I thought. Not much time lost so far, but I don't want to still be here hoping in 4 months time. One thing I could NOT handle is being in this stock the next four months as it ranges from .12 - .18 or even .22 and back down--watching my money yo-yo like that. NO f'ing way. And given today and yesterday, IMHO this is a possibility. Maybe Mel has done us a favor by holding off May bank--which will give us another mini premarket squeeze like these other two...and another chance to exit and make decisions from the sidelines. At least the company is salvaged and the common still intact. Mel gave us that and it's alot. But there is still a lot to be desired from this management. I think they bungled this one. If we start seeing some changes I might be more encouraged. If it's the same silence as always, not sticking up for themselves, this SP could have real trouble getting any traction...IMHO...
Thanks for the info..... Amazing, each party with will be given 833 shares, or given a fee of $50..... so this is how far we have fallen shares for fees @ .06 cents / sh. WOW, and WTF.....
Sorry for my "book" that I just accused this author of writing...got a little carried away...anyway...maybe just read ever other line! LOL.
Cos1000...good thoughts. Just read after my post. Frustrating day and not sure if it portends more of the same we've had for too long or as you say just the begnning of a new day. I can't help but wonder why Mel waited for 11th hour on this deal? It doesn't seem like this needed the extra hours if you know what I mean. But yes, still grateful not to have alternatives as we said. I'll always be a believer in the company. I'm just unsure on best strategy and how long to keep waiting as invested given the prevaling sentiment. I'm definitely in through earnings to see where that takes us. Maybe it will prove to be more effective than debt restructure. Let's see where the rest of this week takes us....if we get into .10's tomorrow intraday, not a good sign IMHO...
sorry for the frustration today. Don't mean to bring the negative waves...I'm still a believer..just looking for a few answers to questions that don't seem to make sense from the company. Given some of the language in the filing that allows SIRI to bail, the Street probably wonders if a deal even got done. Probably part of the confusion...
your words of wisdom always appreciated..I hate to see the dog being taken advantage of...kicked while he's down...Give the dog a treat tonight, he deserves it after the beating out back of today. These guys we fight are soul-less.
That's per every 1000 dolars of notes they held! Which if you do the math..would be $ 1.20 a share. That gives me hope if they took shares vs the cash payment.
sorry you didn't read my post above, but I think we can agree. also as outrageous as my selling 1/4 of my share at .2245 yesterday sounded, this is what you have to do with this stock. I have never seen such hate for a Company by the MSM, and quite frankly, W.S. in general. You are absolutely right, that Mel cares nothing for Common Shareholder. He only is looking out for his own rep. and the success of the company long term. That makes him money. With a company stock price that has gone to .04 cents, I have no loyalty on the trading floor at my house to this company. I am aggressively trying to make money while I can, and listening to the great music on the internet, my car, or stereo at the same time. I have gone mercenary on Mel and will sell my shares off to the highest bidder on any given day, of my choice, that I want. In the end, I hope the company succeeds, along with all of the loyals common shareholders on this board. My strategy for success right now will be as I said yesterday, sell some on every push, and immediately buy back when the shorts take the stock (without me) out back. As I also said yesterday, I do not care where the price winds up in the future. What I care about is selling on the spikes (news driven), and buying when the MSM, working for the short side of the market and the haters take the price back down. I will always only sell less than half of my shares, in that, I avoid needing them to settle before I but back. Usually I only use 1/4 of my shares. That allows me a couple of different strategies up to 1/2. Oh well, I can feel your frustration and its time to change your game plan. I know you know it.........
As long as you just posted....
First, many who follow SIRI are WELL aware of the rules of NASD delisting and the objectives/ramificatio... of a rev split. This article with it's headline today was counter productive. We went through this months ago when NASD granted the first extension. I just wonder what prompeted you to author this article the day after SIRI's deal news? Hmmmm. I don't get it. Unless you are trying to prevent potential buyers of the SP? Due Diligence, exactly. Given the second extension and then all the appeal time, this is an issue well up the road in '09...plenty of time for investors to do such homework and make key decisions. Great of you to revisit the concept now, which yes as you say, WILL spook investors, when SIRI is trying to get some traction out of these pathetic and unwarranted SP levels. Timing is everything my friend. I guarantee you your article had some play in the beating SIRI got today. Thanks!
Thanks for the reminder. I was just trying to believe in something that now I see is not happening. I was giving Mel too much credit to look out for shareholders. This was a disappointment so now it's time to get a little more active or it's a wheel spin. As we say, the hate for this company is immense and will not be overcome easily or in a short timeframe. Thought Mel could bring the goods on this but he failed. I'm most pissed that May bank is not done yet. WTF!! Anyway good thoughts..thanks!
See what im talking about? All the annotations toward XM Holdings. This is the key for SIRI shareholders. This is the money ticket that everyone seems to put their loans against. As in the earlier article that made the most sense to date the firmware is almost in place but not quite yet. When everythings streaming through SIRI including all content and MONEY these assets will be liquidated in one form or another and the future and potential of this company will be realized. We can only see outside the box. OR CAN WE? We will see $1 and above within 6 months. Let me go on the record and call it now. Too many people with leverage have turned to the common stock which would appear to you and i to be insane. They know whats up. We just need one leak from one of those guys and its all over for the shorts. That would be a super sweet day for me. I would hire a midget and a clown for the occasion.
Maybe I'm interpreting this wrong, but it sounds like for every $1K invested you get a fee of 833sh, or $50. That translates to .06 cents / sh to me???
I defininitely see what you speak of. That is also why I keep digging for "comfort" points like my last point. I don't believe for a second, that John Malone is willing to lose all that share money....and get in line in BK! He has seen more than us as far as the financials of this company, he is an intelligent man and has made a fortune already in his lifetime, I believe if he was willing to make this deal with all that common stock in it....he knows there is ALOT more good than bad coming....and he is going to make sure he (a) owns a piece of the company, and (b) makes a killing with the stock. The only way he comes out of this without a stain on his reputation now..is to make sure he helps steer this ship out of the storm and into calmer seas, anything less than that will be a blight on both him and Mel now....and that gives me confidence. If it was bad news coming....he would have sat back and watched Ergen take the hit and lose a ton of dough! Keep the faith brother.....we are going to make money.
good info.
connor...
I agree with your projection within 6 months (and beyond). My concern right now is the immediate potential for the sp to get past the shorts and MSM negativity--short-term... Might just take the full 6...but as you say...I believe it will get there. The company with Malone injected and the potential assets consolidation bodes well...
I agree with the direction of your thinking, keeping all debt and assets in lieu separate. Remember the Real Estate in D.C. was being held against the lease back of their satellite prior to the merger. On "change of control" terms they had to buy their satellite back, I think it was XM-4, and terminate their lease back agreement, which took the lien off their D.C. property. I am not sure of the buy back price, but it was over $300M I think. This frees the D.C. real property up to be either sold or leveraged, which is part of this new loan, I believe. Until we get detail one the second phase of this loan, we won't know for sure.
Negative.....you go for what is behind door number 1 fifty cash dollar bills for every 1000 of debt...or you take the lottery ticket that could be 1.20 a share and double your income with the notes you already agreed to convert to 2011. So if they think the company won't survive, they take the 50 bucks...if not they take the shares and try to double their fun and money by 2011
The numbers being reviewed by Malone and Liberty's BOD's for approval of the deal was a must. No way would he/they have done this without a real-time look into the company (SIRI). Again, I just wonder about the timing of all this. Why the 11th hour? Maybe just a careless SIRI strategy...
Thanks for all your hard work in fact finding...much appreciated...
Technically you are right....but what would be the point of taking the shares and immediately cashing them in....it would hurt their positions more than it would help...they dont want BK either.....they want to get PAID!
www.deepcapture.com/th.../
thanks for the thank you ....but we all know that rowing in the same direction is the only way we get past their BS.....I gladly do this digging in pursuit of the truth and on behalf of us all!
Here we go, only because I am one that needs to understand the numbers, the statement says: In addition - I interpret this to mean in addition to getting a transfer of the bondholders old notes from unsecured to fully secured and at 10%, that XM is "paying these holders of old notes a fee, (fee is key and is immediate), in the amount of (a choice of) either 1.) 833 shares of our common stock, or 2.) $50 cash, at each selling stockholder's election.
It sounds like a fee for the exchange and not a part of the Senior Secured Note in the future. $50 / 833 sh = .06/ sh, price the stock was at when the deal was made. That's my take......
And I too appreciate you work in bringing these facts forward, I had no time today to look at any of this, so again thanks.......
1. Explains the growing days to cover.
2. Explains why the MM's treat this stock like crap(sorry a bunch of numbers, Ive watched enough level 2 action to smell a rat.
3. Sure I can explain it to huge buy orders needing to be filled(speculation) or they are hitting stop losses to drive up volume, or the shorts keep reshorting and buying back, etc...
All this may be true. But naked short selling is anther possibility. To publish that the companies stock you trade in was illegally held to deliver by 8 days over the legal amount is insulting. You get 3 days. Period. If you go over, and your treated bad, you get on a SEC list thats says you are being shorted and not delivered to a large degree.
Do you know what you get for being on this list as a company?
1 Immediate SEC investigation?... No
2. Suspension of trading until shares are delivered. No.
3. MM's told to compensate for lost shares by advantagoes price placements, etc.. No
You get shorted even more, and your price drops even more. Thats how you are rewarded from being on this list. Sounds like fun.
Im sick right now, and todays action, to me, is impossible to be legal. Sorry, there is no way with that volume after the news we had we lose ground(large percentage of groud too).. At least we should have been flat(if you believe the bottom feeder selling off theory, which is still possible.)
But if they have a good Q4, and this stock still trades under .20 cents, I think I might even have A bunch of numbers with me on this.
If they resolve may debt, have a good q4, or even meet, and dont dilute futher, and we are still under .20 cents after all that, then you know thats about all you get. Good quarter after good quarter and were still under .30 cents, .40 cents, you will have your answer.
If this stock soars, than the manipulation was to buy in for big money, but its still manipulation.
Some investors dont have years for the big money to decided this stock should move now. I dont have that date, I wasnt given it. If fundamentals dont work, than what will.
Proof...
KB Homes still trading over 10 dollars..
Why? There are done. Business model will be a joke for years.
GM? Shouldnt they be under $1 by now? They need governement money to survive every quarter, and they make a profit a quarter a decade. Why was their stock ever that high? No clue. Dividend? Ya right.
There are a hundred of examples of worthless companies trading much higher, in much dire straits. Sorry, but if you want I can find them for you.
FRE
FNM
AIG
ALD
AMD
All airlines
KBH
only listing failed business models
Trying to save some tax money, and you lose it all. Justice. Better to trust safe institutions than that bs. I would only sit money like that in the big 3 banks here, or a large international bank in a civilized country.
I could not agree with you more.... When you look at the way this company has been treated by, analysts, broker dealers, main stream media outlets, it has been criminal. There has not been on time that anyone, including the company's management has defended this company's outrageous treatment. I would be more than happy to join with you in seeking out, not how to sue the company, but how to get the SEC to do it's job.....
If the Fuc*en SEC never allowed that short selling rule to be lifted, we would not be in this mess. Someone got to somebody in the SEC to get that lifted. Now we need this short selling "UPTICK" rule back in place to make this stock rise again for good. This is what I believe,
Do u agree?
a more than reasonable question, and for a very convincing argument, you can go to his website for his position. It is at SaveSirius.com. ...... keep both eyes on the facts and then decide for yourself..... I already have...
We are the new inheritors of his problems. If he bought from $8 to $20, he wouldnt be complaining. He should be sueing the FCC directly, not Sirius. Hed have better support.
I want to see some action from them from now till doomsday.
I will give Mel his Q reports to prove to me progress is being made.I Only want to see it on the B.S., not from his mouth.
On Feb 18 10:14 PM Come on Guys Lets get Sirius! wrote:
> Remlor,
>
> If the Fuc*en SEC never allowed that short selling rule to be lifted,
> we would not be in this mess. Someone got to somebody in the SEC
> to get that lifted. Now we need this short selling "UPTICK" rule
> back in place to make this stock rise again for good. This is what
> I believe,
>
> Do u agree?
On Feb 18 10:14 PM Come on Guys Lets get Sirius! wrote:
> Remlor,
>
> If the Fuc*en SEC never allowed that short selling rule to be lifted,
> we would not be in this mess. Someone got to somebody in the SEC
> to get that lifted. Now we need this short selling "UPTICK" rule
> back in place to make this stock rise again for good. This is what
> I believe,
>
> Do u agree?
On Feb 18 10:14 PM Come on Guys Lets get Sirius! wrote:
> Remlor,
>
> If the Fuc*en SEC never allowed that short selling rule to be lifted,
> we would not be in this mess. Someone got to somebody in the SEC
> to get that lifted. Now we need this short selling "UPTICK" rule
> back in place to make this stock rise again for good. This is what
> I believe,
>
> Do u agree?
www.deepcapture.com/th.../
Thanks for the info....
The following may appear to be far fetched but then again A little Jack Daniels got me thinkin'.. . .
This puts the transaction in the proper light.
It transfers the Debt to XM Holdings.
The Sirius Satellites will soon be streaming to both customers.
Old XM satellite network, Offices, and support infrastructure will soon be supporting Liberty media. Mel Could will then Lease services of the XM Unit to Malone & Company, thus generating NEW INCOME. The infrastructure is what Malone needs and it is a cash cow waitng to happen!! To support this premise, lets look at the laibilities:
Lets take XM Holdings & XM First!!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . due May 2009, 350,000,000
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . due Dec 2009, 433,200,000
THE NEW DEBT . . . due 2011 XM 172,485,000
. . Consolidated debt due 2014 XM. .1,333,760,000
And now the Parent Company
8 3 / 4 % Subordinated Notes due 2009 SIRI . . 1,744,000 PAID COH
3 1 / 4 % Convertible Notes due 2011 . . . SIRI 230,000,000
Senior Secured Term Loan due 2012 . . SIRI 247,500,000
. . . .9 5 / 8 % Senior Notes due 2013 . . SIRI 500,000,000
Using a Zero growth projection, the following may be considered:
Finding "BUYER" for the 2009 Debt (reduced by 100m by Malone)
assuming it is Delayed till Dec 2010 for an amount of 333.2M
Possible FCF amounts and payoff results
FCF$ YEAR ISSUE
350M 2009 relieves MAY Debt
350m 2010 resolve 333,300,000 SURPLUS 17M
350m +17M 2011 less 230M(SIRI) + 172M(XM) XM Refinanced 25M
350m 2012 resolve 247.5M SURPLUS 102.5M
That's it for the Sirius Debt. But, the assumption is that the remaining XM Debt of 25M from 2011 will be refinanced, or by this time the XM & XM holdings division would be supporting itself. If XM does not generate new income from Liberty, then spnning off the XM Units would be Best. This is the further breakdown, without any guidance for XM services, the remaining Debt is as follows:
2013 500,000,000 XM Debt
2014 1,333,760,000 XM Debt
On Feb 18 07:56 PM asm61064 wrote:
> All,
>
> Some info:
>
> The shares being offered for sale under this prospectus supplement
> and the accompanying prospectus were originally issued by us pursuant
> to the note purchase agreement, dated February 13, 2009, among us,
> our wholly owned subsidiaries XM Satellite Radio Holdings Inc., XM
> 1500 Eckington LLC and XM Investment LLC, and the selling stockholders.
>
> Pursuant to the note purchase agreement, XM Satellite Radio Holdings
> Inc. agreed to issue to certain holders of its outstanding 10% Convertible
> Notes due 2009 (the “old notes”), including the selling stockholders,
> $172,485,000 in aggregate principal amount of Senior PIK Secured
> Notes due 2011 (the “exchange notes”) in exchange for a like principal
> amount of old notes. The exchange notes are fully and unconditionally
> guaranteed by XM 1500 Eckington LLC and XM Investment LLC, our wholly-owned
> subsidiaries, and are secured by a lien on certain real and personal
> property held by such entities.
it is from the Sanity Check website...thesanitycheck.com/Hom...
koop
thanks for the links, I haven't sat through the presentation yet, but will soon.
I canceled my 3 subs. People I know who used to work for XM canceled their subs. Many friends of mine have not renewed theirs. Go to websites like xm411 and xmfan and see how much traffic to those sites has completely died off since the merger. Interest in the product is gone. The general feel I get is they screwed the pooch here by turning the music channels into the same crap you can get from FM.
I am commenting on SIRI. The news was out this co was getting help. All I can get is the stock remains worthless. What about information on future value. THere is NONE. It seem they are set in a niche market. With revision of the company and appropriate management with added advertisine revenue could it not go some where?
Short selling a stock like this should be disallowed. It is rediculous to knock all wind out the sales if the company has potential. It is like KICKING a person with two broken legs. Every time there is a slight rally, then sale off the shorts come in and there ya go, no chance of it getting back near a dollar, so delisting is eminent and unavoidable even with reverse splits.,. IF ya can't assign a put value then why can you short it. THat really should be the defining factor. No put option availability the no short sell. THere also should be not premarket activity. Pisses me off, the news of help, CNBC hyping on the premarket, you put in an order somewhere where inbetween premarket and close yesterday, they give it to you and here come the short sellers. CNBC, you suck sometimes, you pump up the posative then follow once people get in with the worst of news. (IMMEDIATELY) IT IS GREAT THEN YOU SAY GOT YOU SUCKER.... You do it all the time. SUCKS MAN, this company has potential, it is the most awesome thing in radio sinse Roadios invention and lets knock the legs out from under it.
On Feb 18 09:24 AM Big Ben wrote:
> Relmor? Any info on level 2? I am trying to get out at .19 for me
> and get in around .17 for my mother. Any tips?
Probably the idiot who is taking everyone's rating, hit Report abuse. A convienent way to eliminate comments.
OH. .. .
Just because I'm paranoid.. . . It doesn't mean that people aren't out to get me!
On Feb 18 07:05 PM killerkaul wrote:
> Connorport/ everyone................. tax-wise............ take the
> teeny hit this year and rollover / transfer all SIRI account {{ sep
> and rollover IRA's ]] into your ROTH IRA account............ at these
> penny prices per share, before they are $$$$$$$$$$$$ per share. Then
> never ever pay taxes on it again............... EVER !!! ... Just
> a little tax tip from the Dog...................... WOOF.