Rick Santelli: The Best Five Minutes in CNBC History 137 comments
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Finally, someone speaks truth to ego and the far left. I highly recommend you go to the CNBC Website and view Rick Santelli's Chicago Tea Party video.
It is becoming more apparent each day of the new administration those who work hard, save and are responsible citizens are getting hosed by the practice of class warfare. As I mentioned in a previous post, I know Chicago politics as I do every square inch of my body.
Ladies and Gentlemen, the politics of vote buying, legal extortion and the re-distribution of wealth to the lazy and ill-educated has begun in earnest. And we haven't even touched upon a deteriorating foreign policy.
Thanks to CNBC's Rick Santelli and the workers in the pit that deal in commodities who finally expressed it. We can all be grateful for the lesson.
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This article has 137 comments:
We can have a tea party then.
Thanks for your keen insight into the solution to our economic crisis. Clearly your years of experience, knowledge of history and the markets, and understanding of the collective human condition have put you in a unique position to lead us to a brighter future.
If only someone would put you (or Rick Santelli) in charge of the economy.
We've had too many years of the financial markets (and their regulators) behaving like selfish children, throwing off restrictions, generating incredible wealth for itself and creating tremendous risk in the global economy. I'm hopeful that some adults have finally entered the kindergarten and are trying to get the youngsters to behave.
Rick, Thomas: pay attention to those with more knowledge and wisdom than you. Sit down. Be quiet. You've run things "your way" for too long, and many people are tired of it.
You and I are part of the same society. Why not do what we can to make it better?
Goodby Ricky, its been good to know you.
Can't post URLs on SeekingAlpha so Google :
"Columbia Journalism Review" and "
CNBC Editor: The People Are Revolting!"
CNBC sure has turned out to be a pile of hor$e$h*t lately, hasn't it.And I mean in general, not necessarily related to this issue.
jegan
It would seem so.
If only Rick and company had studied history, but alas....
In neither case are the neighbors better off than I am. Santelli is a good example of the selfishness of Wall Street. Ending the downward spiral of forclosures and declining values will do more to remedy falling assest value than all the idiot screaming reporters. In this case, economics and humanity got trumped by theatre.
On Feb 20 07:52 AM shark1001 wrote:
> Santelli should be fired by CNBC and the Chic Merc for using those
> media for his child like behavior on national TV and what appeared
> to be incite a riot. These TV characters complain the government
> is doing nothing and when they do something, they complain its not
> right. Santelli thinks its OK to bail out Wall Street and when its
> Main Street time, he complains.
> Goodby Ricky, its been good to know you.
The problem is everything is being gauged by how Wall Street and the banks view what is being done. These are the greedy folks that landed us in this mess - and they should not be the barometer for whether we're heading in the right direction.
Try focusing on unemployment rates, underemployment rates, wealth distribution, infant mortality rates, inner city college graduation rates. Instead of what's good for bond traders and greedy bankers.
The days of trickle down are over - they were NEVER sustainable. Fail to embrace some trickle up and say hello to a violent revolution......our inner cities are near the boiling point and they should be after the last 20 years of blind sided & greedy U. Chicago style supply side economics (Reaganomics).
Directors@corporate.ge...
Guess we know which side of the Armageddon trade Santelli is on... wonder how he expects his short trades to clear when there aren't any financial institutions left thanks to the CDS's he claims not to understand
On Feb 20 09:38 AM karl rove fan - not wrote:
> Follow Rick Santelli and the just say NO crowd into the ditch. It
> must be very nice as a high paid market commentator. Let's have
> Santelli and others like him live in Akron, Ohio for 12 months.<br/>
>
> The problem is everything is being gauged by how Wall Street and
> the banks view what is being done. These are the greedy folks that
> landed us in this mess - and they should not be the barometer for
> whether we're heading in the right direction.
>
> Try focusing on unemployment rates, underemployment rates, wealth
> distribution, infant mortality rates, inner city college graduation
> rates. Instead of what's good for bond traders and greedy bankers.
>
>
> The days of trickle down are over - they were NEVER sustainable.
> Fail to embrace some trickle up and say hello to a violent revolution......our
> inner cities are near the boiling point and they should be after
> the last 20 years of blind sided & greedy U. Chicago style supply
> side economics (Reaganomics).
Since the markets and the country have been dealing with the credit crisis, (and now its impact on the real economy,) federal responses have shared one common theme. Regardless of the amount of money involved, the federal response has been treating symptoms, not causes. Therefore, anyone on the opposite side of the trade/argument has a compelling point. My view is that markets are reacting to a lack of leadership from either Wall Street or Washington. And rallies in the US currency, bonds and occasionally equities are a function not of a return of optimism or a positive policy response, but rather that the rest of the world's markets are worse off than America's. Hardly a vote of confidence.
Rather than complaining about the problem, (which is easy,) I'd like to see this site and the investment industry in general offer more solutions. Otherwise markets will get a strong dose of Democrat consensus policy rife with political compromise. The Stimulus bill is just the beginning and should be as scary to investors as a six handle on the SPX.
The man who spent the largest amount of money in history to buy the presidency, who spent the largest amount of tax payer money in history on his inauguration, who is about to spend the largest amount of future tax payer money in history after spending $600,000 to fly his private jet to Denver to sign his "stimulus" bill, appears to have a trait that exceeds even his prodigious oral abilities. That would be spending other people's money.
Keep at it Rick Santelli. Somebody has to protect our future tax liabilities.
The losers are fighting to be winners; the winners are fighting not to be losers.
In all dealings....reciprocit...
Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you....otherwise you will have reciprocity.
If you see mercy as injustice, then selfishness is the real problem.
Obama did say, we would all rise or fall as one nation. What would the new tea party bring, and how would that be different than this?
A Patriot.
USA
Canada
UK
France
Italy
Germany
Japan
Netherlands
Spain
Australia
New Zealand
Israel
A list of 100% free market/capitalist/libe... countries:
Ayn Rand Fantasy Land
On Feb 20 10:42 AM user344210 wrote:
> That's funny, I have a MA in History and I must have missed the section
> on "Great Socialist Countries and Their Socialist Policies".
>
> Can you point me toward it? I'm ever so eager to learn from super-geniuses
> such as yourself!
>
>
> On Feb 20 08:26 AM mngordo wrote:
Channel is
Nothing
But
Comedy
Denmark
Sweden
Norway
Finland
in each of these countries the general populace lives comfortably. there is good infrastructure, medical and health care and an excellent education system. Finland, for one, is widely recognized as having the best education system in the world.
i, for one, am a liberal and proud of it. in the minds of idiots like Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin i'm a communist. i'm 72 years old and i'm still working.
it's the crudest sort of rightwing propaganda to equate laziness with liberalism as has been done on this comment stream. what is wrong with people who think like this? answer: brainwashed by the likes of Bill O'Reilly and Larry Kudlow.
and while i'm at it, socialism is no greater danger to democracy than fascism to which we have come dangerously close.
p.s. good luck with being poor. "they" probably won't put you in chains unless you get branded as a terrorist and thrown into a secret prison somewhere unbeknownst to your friends or family (thanks to Dick Cheney and his minions).
On Feb 20 10:59 AM jksisco wrote:
> Truth, Liberty and the American way are being threatened like never
> before. Those drinking the government's kool-aid are going to wake
> up one day and wonder what happened to their personal freedoms. We
> are systematically being fed the candy of Socialism under the cover
> of "crisis". Rick is absolutely right, and we will reap what we sow
> if we don't stop it now, a "tea party" is a great idea. I would rather
> live in Poverty, than live a life in Chains. This is not about who's
> right, it's about what's right. Those who think we can't pull through
> this with "limited" Government intervention will end up slaves on
> the plantation, let me know how that works out for you.
So my kids can look forward to paying for their neighbors house, education, food both at home and at school, health insurance, social security, am I missing anything?
What really happens if we do not have enough children?
Are these products selling? No, they are not.
Are they sucking upmarket capital? Oh, yes, they are. It's terrible.
Is this leading to layoffs? Absolutely.
Are layoffs causing housing and mortgage stress? Of course. That's how it works in a downturn.
Does Santelli, who is a hedge fund advisor for derivatives, stand to profit from the taxpayer financed $1 trillion government underwriting of the complex derivatives market Santelli helped crate? Naturally, that's capitalism.
Does Santelli rant against taxpayer sponsored underwriting of a select group os underwater mortgages of people who have income and did not play the real estate market by taking out fixed mortgage loans? Yes, he does rant against that because that is socialism.
OK. I get it.
Suppose, hypothetically, I live in the great state of Florida (or California, or Nevada, or numerous other former growth states). I moved here after college in 2001, opened a flower shop (look at me, the entrepreneur!), got married and (after renting for a few years and saving a down payment of $40,000) bought a house for $400,000 and started a family.
I owe $340,000 on a house that the market values at only $200,000 today. Some of my conservative free-market neighbors, being in a similar position, sent their house keys to their lenders with the message "Nothing personal...just business". I'm underwater by at least $140,000 due to the foreclosures and abandonments (and the market's still falling).
I've an opportunity to work in another state that hasn't been hit as hard, but I can't afford to buy out my mortgage, so I've got to stay.
And my business which once was doing so well is now off over 40% from last year. Unemployment's rising, local and state tax revenues are falling (as are services like police, education, highway maintenance, etc).
Sure hope the government does nothing to help! Serves me right! Damn those liberals! Maybe Rick Santelli has some ideas!
---
I do think we're dealing with a very difficult problem, both in scope and in depth. I'm tired of hearing the same simple platitudes that fail to take into account both the proper role of government and the effect of the economic downturn on much of the population. I elected a national leader with the expectation that he would lead. I haven't elected anyone on the Street, and frankly they work for themselves, not for me. Which explains so much of their advice, "Let's do it the same way we've been doing it!"
I ALMOST LOST MY LUNCH TODAY WATCHING.......
James "con-man CRAMER,
JACK "Blowhard" BOGLE
JEREMY "all but financial-Dividends" SIEGEL.
That money is not free...it comes from other hardworking folks - why should they pay for your house when they have their own problems.
On Feb 20 02:34 PM John Walter wrote:
> I owe $340,000 on a house that the market values at only $200,000
> today. Some of my conservative free-market neighbors, being in a
> similar position, sent their house keys to their lenders with the
> message "Nothing personal...just business". I'm underwater by at
> least $140,000 due to the foreclosures and abandonments (and the
> market's still falling).
>
> I've an opportunity to work in another state that hasn't been hit
> as hard, but I can't afford to buy out my mortgage, so I've got to
> stay.
> Sure hope the government does nothing to help! Serves me right! Damn
> those liberals! Maybe Rick Santelli has some ideas!
What a freakin moron!
chicagoteaparty.blogsp...
What about your guys Bush and Paulson that turned on the printing presses through Bernacke and created the People's Republic of Wall Street? Who is going to pay for that? And all that was to pre-position liquidity into the system to cover a Credit Default Swaps financial nuclear weapons chain reaction detonation? The mortgage situation is chump change. Both conservative and liberal investors on Seeking Alpha are toast. All of you. And your wives and children too. Same with this Thomas Smicklas and Little Lord Fauntleroy Rick Santelli. It is all far too late. You will all be in the streets too living out of your car where it runs out of gas and crashes along the road. You are all whistling in the dark. My prayers are with Obama . He may try to fight the good fight. But the odds are it is far too late now even for him. Where is the Credit-Anstalt 1931 event out there over the horizon going to come from?
Wall Street did it to you without even ever using any Vaseline. At least as a military veteran I'll be able to handle myself in the coming chaos. I wouldn't waste a bullet on any of you neocon never served punks on this sorry thread. I would just use a bayonet and let you bleed to death in your "free market" worthless investments.
On Feb 20 04:14 PM Amazed in NC wrote:
> I am truly amazed at the number of socialists on this site and their
> lack of understanding about free market. Truly dumbfounded. Take
> for example the comments from "russ" where he states "Ending the
> downward spiral of forclosures and declining values will do more
> to remedy falling assest value than all the idiot screaming reporters."
> What an absolute moronic statement. First off, what Rick was stating
> is that taking money out of MY pocket and giving it to some other
> idiot (neighbor or not) just because that person wanted a house bigger
> than they could afford because they are buying ATVs, vacationing,
> buying new cars, etc... is JUST PLAIN WRONG. I say TOO F$%^&ING
> BAD. They made their bed so now live in it. Here, I got an idea.
> For all those socialists that like this PLAN, then I say TAX them.
> Just stay away from my money. By my calculation, that means the
> 50% of you morons that voted this inexperienced clown in, can pay
> twice as much and cover all of us. That way, we all sleep well at
> night.
>
> What a freakin moron!
The United States Congress passed what??!!! 1 Trillion divided by 4 million jobs = $250,000.00 per "job saved". Has the country gone insane?
Didn't they check the details of the largest expeniture venturing into the largest debt in the history of the world? Oh...right. You didn't. This is gross negligence.
My wife and I jumped out of our seats yelling "Thank you" to Rick for assuring us that we are not alone. Who do you vote for....the insane past or insane future?
So the Democrats are going to solve massive debt (thank you Reagan and Bush II) with massive debt. Oh....I remember how it goes, thats right Mr. Obama, 2 legs good, four legs bad.
In the US, people at many income levels consider themselves to be "middle" class. Thus, not only have we no hereditary social classes, we have hardly any widely accepted notion of social class. The situation is quite different in England (where Marx lived) and most other European countries.
Thank you for fighting the good fight against government "fixes" to the "crisis".
Since October you have been consistently critical of the past and current
administration's "efforts" to fix this mess, pointing out that every time the
government gets involved, something bad happens. Everyone I talk to agrees
with you, but my sample is limited to people with jobs, so it is probably not
statistically significant...
White House:
Turn off the TV and get to work. If you can't take criticism, bail now and let
the next crop of rookies give it a try.
On Feb 20 09:45 PM Chaz Sanderson wrote:
> You must be kidding! Santelli is clueless. He's worried about a $75
> Billion dollar bailout to homeowners (pocket change) when the real
> problem is the impending multi-Trillion dollar bailout to Wall Street
> financial institutions for the real problem that wall Street created...derivatives,
> credit default swaps, cdo/s... Santelli is a typical delusional right
> winger who fails to understand what the real problem is. He's pathetic.
On Feb 20 10:01 PM Pet wrote:
> You must have missed the fact that he was talking about the bailout
> and PORK. Helloooooo, 75 billion for mtges was just part of it. I
> am not saying folks who dont need help dont deserve it. I am saying
> the idiots that bought a house knowing they couldnt afford it but
> were banking on the price to go up to proffit on it dont deserve
> a bail out. Period. I am also not saying that it is wrong to do that
> and make money because that the risk you take. But if the music stops
> and you lose its no different than buying hi and selling low. You
> lose
On Feb 20 07:52 AM shark1001 wrote:
> Santelli should be fired by CNBC and the Chic Merc for using those
> media for his child like behavior on national TV and what appeared
> to be incite a riot. These TV characters complain the government
> is doing nothing and when they do something, they complain its not
> right. Santelli thinks its OK to bail out Wall Street and when its
> Main Street time, he complains.
> Goodby Ricky, its been good to know you.
On Feb 20 10:18 PM User Guest wrote:
> Santelli is done - did you see the NBC news tonight with Brian Williams
> - Mr. Santelli went against the NBC corporate credo of Hope, Change
> and Obama - and instead he spoke the truth -
On Feb 20 04:14 PM Amazed in NC wrote:
> I am truly amazed at the number of socialists on this site and their
> lack of understanding about free market. Truly dumbfounded. Take
> for example the comments from "russ" where he states "Ending the
> downward spiral of forclosures and declining values will do more
> to remedy falling assest value than all the idiot screaming reporters."
> What an absolute moronic statement. First off, what Rick was stating
> is that taking money out of MY pocket and giving it to some other
> idiot (neighbor or not) just because that person wanted a house bigger
> than they could afford because they are buying ATVs, vacationing,
> buying new cars, etc... is JUST PLAIN WRONG. I say TOO F$%^&ING
> BAD. They made their bed so now live in it. Here, I got an idea.
> For all those socialists that like this PLAN, then I say TAX them.
> Just stay away from my money. By my calculation, that means the 50%
> of you morons that voted this inexperienced clown in, can pay twice
> as much and cover all of us. That way, we all sleep well at night.
>
>
> What a freakin moron!
On Feb 20 02:34 PM John Walter wrote:
> How fine that we have so many experts in freedom and free markets
> here! The topic can't be too complicated...just look how many people
> get the big picture!
>
> Suppose, hypothetically, I live in the great state of Florida (or
> California, or Nevada, or numerous other former growth states). I
> moved here after college in 2001, opened a flower shop (look at me,
> the entrepreneur!), got married and (after renting for a few years
> and saving a down payment of $40,000) bought a house for $400,000
> and started a family.
>
> I owe $340,000 on a house that the market values at only $200,000
> today. Some of my conservative free-market neighbors, being in a
> similar position, sent their house keys to their lenders with the
> message "Nothing personal...just business". I'm underwater by at
> least $140,000 due to the foreclosures and abandonments (and the
> market's still falling).
>
> I've an opportunity to work in another state that hasn't been hit
> as hard, but I can't afford to buy out my mortgage, so I've got to
> stay.
>
> And my business which once was doing so well is now off over 40%
> from last year. Unemployment's rising, local and state tax revenues
> are falling (as are services like police, education, highway maintenance,
> etc).
>
> Sure hope the government does nothing to help! Serves me right! Damn
> those liberals! Maybe Rick Santelli has some ideas!
>
> ---
>
> I do think we're dealing with a very difficult problem, both in scope
> and in depth. I'm tired of hearing the same simple platitudes that
> fail to take into account both the proper role of government and
> the effect of the economic downturn on much of the population. I
> elected a national leader with the expectation that he would lead.
> I haven't elected anyone on the Street, and frankly they work for
> themselves, not for me. Which explains so much of their advice, "Let's
> do it the same way we've been doing it!"
On Feb 20 10:41 PM Pet wrote:
> I do feel your pain to an extent. Did you anylize the real estate
> mkt where you bought before you bought? Who did not see this bubble
> bursting 3-5 years ago. I have know folks for years living beyond
> their means and doing refi`s and blowing the cash. Do I feel for
> them? No. For those that that have not done that and are struggling
> to make ends meet, I hope the Govt is fair accross the board. <br/>
275 billion in mortgage relief or whatever you want to call it, is only creating an artificial floor for home prices. While home prices are more affordable I think they have a little ways to go.
And for those of you who got caught up in the housing frenzy and need relief...well u might get it. I'm glad for you. Nevertheless the moral hazard can't be denied. I've been waiting for prices to come down so I could buy. Prices and rates are down but now I'm not sure about my job. So I wait. And I have to help pay to keep my neighbor under roof.
Why punish the many for the errors of a few?
www.youtube.com/watch?...
On Feb 20 07:52 AM shark1001 wrote:
> Santelli should be fired by CNBC and the Chic Merc for using those
> media for his child like behavior on national TV and what appeared
> to be incite a riot. These TV characters complain the government
> is doing nothing and when they do something, they complain its not
> right. Santelli thinks its OK to bail out Wall Street and when its
> Main Street time, he complains.
> Goodby Ricky, its been good to know you.
a leftist plot? When 3 different companies traded my mortgage in the same time frame, like a bet at the track, that wasn't because of the "markets modernization act" ? When AIG sold insurance on the same bad debt over and over and over Xs 100 ....that's was us losers (working stiffs) manipulating the market??? Not traders on a floor somewhere in that alter universe of Porche and Mercedes driving uber successful grifters called traders?
Yea we're losers Rick. In the same way someone that hands over his wallet when he has a knife in his ribs. A knife wielded by someone he was a loser to trust. Like Bear Stearns, AIG, Phil Grahm and the republicans.
Yup. I'm a loser even though I bailed @ the high. I saw it was a ponzi scheme
when I went in for a loan for my addition. I put my house on the market instead.
I walked with cash but I'm still a loser and so are all of you, because our country's been crippled.
I could read the writing on the wall...and your telling me these high end MBAs couldn't? Pulllleazze!!
I worked construction all my life for God sakes.
I saw it for what it was.
They saw it, they promoted it, they profited on it.
I hope Rick Santelli and every one of his ilk that didn't speak out end up in a homeless shelter. It would be the only justice.
You think I'm a lazy socialist? I think you need to pour concrete in
New England in January, put on roof shingles in Florida in July.
I'll work any of you paper pushers into a coronary.
Who do you think we are? Us real working Americans?
Oh...right..losers...w... you've made sure of that...
On Feb 20 07:19 AM honest mortgage guy wrote:
> I have one comment for both of you; I own a mortgage company. during
> the "go go" days, I refused to do loans for people that could not
> afford them. I made it my responsibility to "know my borrower" and
> only originate loans that they could pay back. As a result, I did
> well but nearly as well as those that practiced irresponsible lending.
> Now I see Santelli ranting on a trading floor on CNBC about the mortgage
> crisis. My income is now 40% of what it should be largely because
> of Wall Street greed. The Wall Street guy's all made their money
> and now screw the rest of us. I wonder what Santelli (and you) have
> to say about that?
On Feb 20 01:42 PM fahrender wrote:
> additional "Great Socialist Countries"
>
> Denmark
> Sweden
> Norway
> Finland
>
> in each of these countries the general populace lives comfortably.
> there is good infrastructure, medical and health care and an excellent
> education system. Finland, for one, is widely recognized as having
> the best education system in the world.
> i, for one, am a liberal and proud of it. in the minds of idiots
> like Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin i'm a communist. i'm 72 years
> old and i'm still working.
> it's the crudest sort of rightwing propaganda to equate laziness
> with liberalism as has been done on this comment stream. what is
> wrong with people who think like this? answer: brainwashed by the
> likes of Bill O'Reilly and Larry Kudlow.
On Feb 20 10:25 AM DuffBeer wrote:
> It always amazes me just how quick you Liberals come out of the
> your koolaide to defend your promised one. Do any of you work ?
> Have a real job ? Oh I see your mission is to monitor comments
> of The Messiah as to ensure that they are flowery .
> I like Tom know Chicago Politics very well. I even studied the choosen
> one way before any of you knew about him. He has a very interesting
> past.
> Maybe Blago and Burris may share some of with the media ??? OOPs
>
> I forgot the media rolls out the carpet BHO walks on to the telepromptor.
>
> Tom , nice little post you woke up some of the Libs and took a
> bunch
> of them away from counting all the goodies they shall recieve.
>
>
> I will not change my beer to malt lliquor or what ever BHO is drinking!!!!
>
> Cheers, DuffBeer
On Feb 20 10:48 AM DuffBeer wrote:
> Tom , I grew up in Cicero !!!!
> To you liberals, I was the first conservative in my family at 12.
> If I wanted something I went out and worked for it. Mowed lawns ,picked
> up bottles for recycling,green thinking way back then , I didnot
> even wait to my struggling mom and dad could muster up enough to
> provide for my needs. Now as I have for so many years provide for
> my families needs by going to college, worked two jobs , saved ,
> spent wisely and acted resposible.
> I have seen provety we were foreclosured on 3 times as a child and
> I have been down to our last 100 bucks when I was out of work. I
> know the feel of the not haves but I went back to school and got
> a college degree to do something else.
> Yes you Can do it if you want to do it but liberals say hey we are
> busy
> doing nothing or playing You do it for us !!!!
> Liberals Won as we hear that often said . Well Liberals why don't
> you all get togather on the south side of Chicago pass the hat around
> toss in you saving or what ever and divide it up amongst yourselves
> go your merry way. There is over 50 %of you to make it happen.
>
> you will have fun at the party for 4 years. That word Bush just
> gets to you ????
> I am running to the frig and make sure my beer is there you liberals
> buy your own.
> Cheers DuffBeer
I sympathize that its hard trying to make it on a cooks wage at Waffle House and you're just plain exhausted after a hard day. Sad, so sad.
On Feb 20 04:14 PM Amazed in NC wrote:
> I am truly amazed at the number of socialists on this site and their
> lack of understanding about free market. Truly dumbfounded. Take
> for example the comments from "russ" where he states "Ending the
> downward spiral of forclosures and declining values will do more
> to remedy falling assest value than all the idiot screaming reporters."
> What an absolute moronic statement. First off, what Rick was stating
> is that taking money out of MY pocket and giving it to some other
> idiot (neighbor or not) just because that person wanted a house bigger
> than they could afford because they are buying ATVs, vacationing,
> buying new cars, etc... is JUST PLAIN WRONG. I say TOO F$%^&ING
> BAD. They made their bed so now live in it. Here, I got an idea.
> For all those socialists that like this PLAN, then I say TAX them.
> Just stay away from my money. By my calculation, that means the
> 50% of you morons that voted this inexperienced clown in, can pay
> twice as much and cover all of us. That way, we all sleep well at
> night.
>
> What a freakin moron!
On Feb 20 10:36 PM dee reedman wrote:
> i'm with you amazed, it would be great to see what these morans
For you leftists, please cash in your baseball card collections and your portfolio of pizza coupons and buy SPY. I am still waiting for your BO-rally.
The funny thing is that they can gun for Santelli all day long but it does not change the fact that their was not a single dissenter in the room and the great majority of people commenting on the rant at the various spots on the internet it was shown was in favor of it. I guess they think if they cower Santelli, which evidently will not happen, people will stop opposing their counterproductive plans.
My last observation is the number of posters here bashing the article with very few comments. Paid for bloggers by the Obama machine you think? I especially liked the one that thinks Santelli should be fired. I wonder if he/she thinkks the same of Chris Mathews for his editorials......
Rick is not offering a pill that will make everything better; he's just saying this is not the way to go about it. Rick is a rock star in popularity only.
The problem with this whole mess is our philosophy as a whole and without changing this we won't change anything. Mark Knopfler and Sting wrote in the 80's "Money for Nothing". I don't think they thought this song would be such a way of life for so many.
We have the CEO's being rewarded for cutting payrolls in half by taking our jobs overseas so they could live like a rock star. We have the financial institutions devising plans to hand out loans that can't be repaid so their numbers look great then being rewarded so they can live like a rock star. We have the government officials approving plans that they know won't work in the long term but look great right now so they can be reelected and live like a rock star. Then we have the everyday person taking a ridiculous loan well beyond their means so they can live like a rock star.
Now we have the government handing out help to these people so they can keep living like rock stars. NOT!!!
Put an end to it. Let them live with their own mistakes. As it is now our children's children are going to be paying for these people's lifestyle. At least when they are sitting in their rented trailer they can think back at their life as a rock star. Many of us don't have that!!
> Wall Street did not inflate the prices of real estate. Wall Street
> didn`t sign the bottom line to buy a house at four times the cost
> of what they could afford, nor did Wall Street refi every year and
> spend spend spend. Sure they proffited from it, as any stock holder
> would that gained from the bubble.
Yes, Wall St. precisely inflated housing prices. The bank lobby group in 2002 expressly spoke to Congress about the need to drive interest rates down to make homes more affordable. Their solution was to print more money to chase an inflationary asset bubble.
They created the bubble through supply, not demand. You say so yourself! Before the securitization model, banks had to keep some of the risk on their balance sheets. After this derivatives invention, they did not.
In the end, if there was so much systemic risk, and it was so obvious that people were buying over their heads, then derivatives traders should have been the first to smell it. After all, a derivative is a bet, and that implies risk assessment. If we followed your logic, the market would have bet against these things years ago. They did not. That is why it is called systemic risk. Only a fool sells debt to people who cannot afford the payments.
Warren Buffet has strongly criticized securitized mortgages and other bundled debt securities. Santelli is not even close to being in that league. He's a rookie in comparison, and a whiny one at that. For every foreclosure we should be firing and doing criminal checks on the Santelli's of the market to see if they knew of the risk beforehand and did not ameliorate it with their hedge fund client's money. Investigations in the Great Depression after the markets crashed revealed staggering amounts of 'in house" knowledge about the risk and who was taking it, and passing it on to the general market disguised and warped, so as to profit. That's Santelli's game.
> Santelli isnt the guy who created
> CDO`s and CDS`s.
Actually, yes he was. He is on the BOD of a company that pioneered the mortgage backed security products. He's been complaining on CNBC for almost 6 months now about the woes in that market. He is an advisor to hedge funds that are stuck with these non-performing assets and now wants the US taxpayer to underwrite their risk. The derivatives trader association has been advocating just that policy, and Geithner is obliging.
Do your research!
>Nor was he the guy who made the laws that allowed
> a financial lender to make loans to people who really couldnt come
> close to affording them.
You're right. That was Phil Gramm.
>As recent as 3 years ago, at least where
> I live, the lenders DID a credit check and Job history and if you
> couldnt prove your ability to repay a loan you didn`t get it. How
> much in value the real estate prices were rising wasnt part of the
> equation.
The drop in credit checks and increase in debt/earnings ratios all happened under a Republican administration. It happened at the same time as securitization. It happened at the same time as everyone was crowing on about the "free market" and the "end of the cyclical business cycle" yada yada. Securitization was by policy design with the private sector lobbying extremely hard to have no oversight of the shadow banking system. Leading the black nox charge were derivatives traders like Santelli. Look at Santelli's profile. He's a derivatives trader. They loved the securitization model because it allowed them to inflate the value of a product at both ends and then pass the risk along to someone else. That is the entire point of the product.
Now that the securitization model has broken the Santelli's of the world want to be bailed out, but in classic political doublespeak, they don't want the other guy to get help. Santelli knows that mortgage rewrites and cramdowns will devalue the assets his hedge fund investors hold. Apparently, Santelli the advisor and those hedge fund managers (who still have locked out most redemptions) cannot weigh risk. They are lousy capitalists (but big talkers). He cannot take his medicine.
Santelli is part of the problem.
Without an educated majority our democracy will degenerate into mob rule. Santelli may be right but he, like most in today's Market, are barking up the wrong tree.
Liberty and capitalism are not one and the same...
On Feb 21 09:46 AM ed martinez wrote:
> Any effort by well intended government to mediate greed and compassion
> in a capitalist society must expect unintended consequences. Ultimately
> the majority will decide between individual liberty or the general
> welfare.
> Without an educated majority our democracy will degenerate into mob
> rule. Santelli may be right but he, like most in today's Market,
> are barking up the wrong tree.
On Feb 20 09:22 AM wpdragon wrote:
> You're exactly right shark, except for one thing. CNBC has been egging
> him on, showing that clip every 5 minutes and trying to make their
> own right wing political statement through it. Strange, Immelt the
> Republican allows basically nothing but right wing commentators,
> anchors and congresspersons on air... Jeff should maybe spend more
> time trying to get his failing company back on track and less time
> playing politics... Jeff, did you happen to see your share price
> lately??????????????
Families were outbidding each other on homes like the ponzi scheme it truly was.
They ramped up home prices to well over 200% with the intention of moving out every 2 years with another 50% profit.
Now that their scheme has backfired due to the banks realizing these people never really had an income, the government wants to deduct money out of our earnings so we can pay for their outrageously overpriced home mortgages.
The younger generation will not be able to acquire these homes at the current price levels unless they too receive a government bailout.
Incomes simply do not support current housing prices.
Why can’t the government call a spade a spade?
My kids really don't deserve a future, I may as well sell them into slavery.
I'm so mean and selfish, I deserve to be punished for being responsible and ethical.
Here are my arms, please, take all the blood you need.
On Feb 21 07:46 AM bosun.j wrote:
> At 12 you became a conservative? Amazing! Tell us what awful thing
> happened in your home or church that damaged you so severely. Sad,
> so sad.
similar to our standoff with the banking system, we are loathe to pick the winners and losers at this stage. the government knows it faces outrage regardless of which direction it moves. the private and public entities responsible for this mess both had many opportunities to address the abuses and failed to do so. in the main, i find it hard to blame most of the individuals who got caught up in the problem and now need assistance of some sort.
when stupidity and greed overtake the largest systems and markets we have, we really have little choice but to attempt to save the fabric of the society and capitalistic principles most of us believe in. the harsh reality of having to temporarily violate any of those principles in the short-term is a price we'll have to pay.
while it may be a stretch, an analogy is New Orleans and Katrina. should we have not assited that community because they chose to live there? because they chose to believe their leaders were keeping them safe? because no one thought such a storm was possible?
it's the price of having a society that's worth saving - nothing more, nothing less.
Everyone can keep crying about how these poor folks who are now over their heads with mortgages were taken advantage of by mortgage brokers or banks but frankly you have to be a moron to take on a mortgage without being sure you completely understand how it works including the future risks associated with it. Ask a friend, get a second opinion.. If you are making $50K and are buying a $750K home with no money down - - - HHEELLOOO.... I was raised to believe if something is too good to be true it usually is. It's a pretty simple rule to follow.
Now here we stand, with this immense problem and the government is going to solve it by throwing money at what were bad decisions to begin with... What is my return on this investment going to be ? Answer, a huge deficit which is a bill my kids will paying off long after I am gone... So should Rick and I be unhappy... you better believe it... Wake up!!
On Feb 20 08:44 AM russ wrote:
> Santelli is an idiot. If the guy next door gets unemployment money
> should I scream 'where's mine'? Or if the other neighbor collects
> a life insurance payment for a deceased spouse, should I scream 'where's
> mine'?
>
> In neither case are the neighbors better off than I am. Santelli
> is a good example of the selfishness of Wall Street. Ending the downward
> spiral of forclosures and declining values will do more to remedy
> falling assest value than all the idiot screaming reporters. In this
> case, economics and humanity got trumped by theatre.
On Feb 21 01:12 PM jeerio wrote:
> Santelli himself said in the aftermath of his outburst, something
> like: "I went a bit over the top" - he was clearly backpeddling a
> bit on his rant. any one of us could stand in front of a homogeneous
> group and eliecit a certain response to a fenzied question. it was
> great theater, but it contained neither a fully-formed thought nor
> a deep appreciation for the complexities of the issue.
>
> similar to our standoff with the banking system, we are loathe to
> pick the winners and losers at this stage. the government knows
> it faces outrage regardless of which direction it moves. the private
> and public entities responsible for this mess both had many opportunities
> to address the abuses and failed to do so. in the main, i find it
> hard to blame most of the individuals who got caught up in the problem
> and now need assistance of some sort.
>
> when stupidity and greed overtake the largest systems and markets
> we have, we really have little choice but to attempt to save the
> fabric of the society and capitalistic principles most of us believe
> in. the harsh reality of having to temporarily violate any of those
> principles in the short-term is a price we'll have to pay.
>
> while it may be a stretch, an analogy is New Orleans and Katrina.
> should we have not assited that community because they chose to live
> there? because they chose to believe their leaders were keeping
> them safe? because no one thought such a storm was possible?
>
>
> it's the price of having a society that's worth saving - nothing
> more, nothing less.
Of Christopher Columbus it has been said, that when he set sail he did not know where he was going, when he got there he didn't know where he was and when he returned he did not not know where he had been. Obama and Bush are just like Columbus when it comes to the current economic crisis. They do not understand the cause and their solutions are merely pouring gas on an economic fire.
All of this spending will come back in a few years and cripple this country. Government is becoming a leach on this country and future taxes will go through the roof. The USA was formed because its people rebelled against taxation.
This government stupidity needs to end, and end soon, or there will be rebellion.
I think we should all refuse to pay our taxes until this stupidity ends and, if they take away our first amendment we always have the second.
Yours, John Galt.
Ps- My home is paid for and I never claimed an interest deduction for it.
Ok I'll give them 2 deductions
On Feb 20 09:22 AM wpdragon wrote:
> You're exactly right shark, except for one thing. CNBC has been egging
> him on, showing that clip every 5 minutes and trying to make their
> own right wing political statement through it. Strange, Immelt the
> Republican allows basically nothing but right wing commentators,
> anchors and congresspersons on air... Jeff should maybe spend more
> time trying to get his failing company back on track and less time
> playing politics... Jeff, did you happen to see your share price
> lately??????????????
On Feb 20 07:52 AM shark1001 wrote:
> Santelli should be fired by CNBC and the Chic Merc for using those
> media for his child like behavior on national TV and what appeared
> to be incite a riot. These TV characters complain the government
> is doing nothing and when they do something, they complain its not
> right. Santelli thinks its OK to bail out Wall Street and when its
> Main Street time, he complains.
> Goodby Ricky, its been good to know you.
On Feb 21 02:53 PM xxjt wrote:
> I'm not CO2 but I'll give you an answer you won't like. As long as
> I'm not subsidizing the kids I don't care how many kids anyone has.
> But for some reason I think the OP is taking advantage of every subsidy
> the government gives to large family. (tax deductions and child credits.)
> he can find. My opinion -if you need a tax deduction for something,
> like a mortgage or children, you can't afford it.
>
> Ps- My home is paid for and I never claimed an interest deduction
> for it.
On Feb 21 01:16 PM Kevin T wrote:
> Russ: What a ridiculous set of comparisons... your hypothetical neighbor
> paid for the insurance by him or herself so deserves the payout...
> your hypothetical neighbor on unemployment sure as hell better be
> willing to take any job to make ends meet during tough times (and
> not just consider unemployment checks a privledge) or you should
> be unhappy and Santelli's point is why should any of us in the 92%
> who are paying our mortgages on time and doing the right things have
> to pay for those that can't.
>
> Everyone can keep crying about how these poor folks who are now over
> their heads with mortgages were taken advantage of by mortgage brokers
> or banks but frankly you have to be a moron to take on a mortgage
> without being sure you completely understand how it works including
> the future risks associated with it. Ask a friend, get a second opinion..
> If you are making $50K and are buying a $750K home with no money
> down - - - HHEELLOOO.... I was raised to believe if something is
> too good to be true it usually is. It's a pretty simple rule to follow.
>
>
> Now here we stand, with this immense problem and the government is
> going to solve it by throwing money at what were bad decisions to
> begin with... What is my return on this investment going to be ?
> Answer, a huge deficit which is a bill my kids will paying off long
> after I am gone... So should Rick and I be unhappy... you better
> believe it... Wake up!!
>
> On Feb 20 08:44 AM russ wrote:
It is none of your business and the number of children is irrelevant to this parent's argument.
I assume you are an intolerant, dogmatic and self righteous... liberal.
I thought tolerance was a virtue. People are free to have as many or as few children as they like. I thought liberals didn't judge others' lifestyles... whoops except when it is different from one's own. Hmmm.
Ironically, Responsible Parent's children will pay for your social security. If there is no social security in the future, then Responsible Parent will be provided for by his/her children and you by your own savings or lack thereof.
Please dispense with ad hominem attacks and learn some civic virtue.
On Feb 20 02:08 PM CO2 wrote:
> responsible parent, just curious- did you adopt some of your 9 children,
> or did you responsibly decide not to use any available birth control
> methods?
> maybe you can give the latest octuplet mom, Nadya Suleman some lessons
> in responsibility, too.
On Feb 20 11:02 PM The Rebel wrote:
> CO2, just curious.....are you one of those global warming nutjobs?
> By the way, my late father came from a family of nine at a time when
> it wasn't common practice to denigrate having a large family. When
> did times change? Was there a specific year? Oh, I get it. You
> must also be one of those planned parenthood fanatics who has yet
> to see an abortion that you didn't like.
>
>
> On Feb 20 02:08 PM CO2 wrote:
For those who are only ranting now and said nothing during 2003-2006, I would say, just shut up!
Santelli says the guys in on the trading floor behind him all agree with him (no one spoke for the camera), and they are a cross-section of America. That's a clueless idea of a cross section: a bunch of guys with jobs in the financial sector? How about retirees, recently laid off, or people with health problems?
If he doesn't like Obama's efforts to save a seriously-ill economy, what does he propose instead? Anger might feel good, but doesn't solve anything. There are three houses on my block for sale for a year. We would like to sell ours (not because of mortgage problems, but lifestyle change in retirement), but can't because of the desperation in the market. Would I like to help these neighbors stay in their homes, and make ours the best house for sale in the neighborhood? You bet!
Multiply that by the extra million or so houses glutting the market, and you have a program filling a real need. Or no program, and watch the economy continue to smother in its own waste.
If Santelli hates the idea of any tax money of his going to make things better for a neighbor, when that's the only way to stop the ongoing destruction of our collective welfare, he should go buy his own island and not worry about it.
I don't know if many of the people posting about paying their mortgage live in a more affordable state, but in the east coast, many starter homes were at the 400K level. The only way you could get a house was to get an adjustable, and refinance. Everybody that defaults ona mortgage will have ruined credit. So, on top of a ton of foreclosures killing home values, you are going to have a significat body of people shut out credit markets for a long time which will mean they can not help the economy grow in the future. Not to mention that every foreclosure ups the toxic poison throughout the balance sheets of insitutions worldwide.
I have not read the plan, and you have to be very careful that a plan does not make the problem worse; but what I do know of it is that you only qualify if your home is within 105% of the mortgage value, and you have steady income that could support a better financed mortgage (many of the adjustables and other variants are now in the double-digit rate). A lot of peope do not qualify.
A rational pluses versus minuses has to be done to see what the net effect is for our economy. Rick's tirade was amateur hour. I had a lot of respect fopr him as a guy that carefully watched the Treasury markets, the yield curve, the currencies and he had a lot good to say; but I don't know if he got caught in the moment.
House prices need to correct and these delaying tactics will not stop the correction - they will just draw it out and waste our money.
The only way to get through this crisis is to go through it. Experience some pain and then move on from a stronger base. Anything else will simply extend the problem in both duration and magnitude.
On Feb 21 09:42 PM Aalan wrote:
>
> If he doesn't like Obama's efforts to save a seriously-ill economy,
> what does he propose instead?
www.youtube.com/watch?...
Bernie Sanders calls Larry Kudlow a socialist.
On Feb 20 11:28 PM Smartinvestor30 wrote:
> Since when were he and Larry Kudlow for the TARP (bank bailouts)?????????????...
>
On Feb 20 09:54 PM Pet wrote:
> no your pathetic
>
>
> On Feb 20 09:45 PM Chaz Sanderson wrote:
The decision making process you spoke about is where my thoughts immediately went.
The "bets" that we make in a mean spirited extremist-capitalist system are very much lives versus profits. Extremist-capitalism is by its very nature mean spirited. Many comments above illustrate that very well.
As in the case in NOLA the government was aware that a Katrina category storm would wipe out the city. Now, governments first duty is the protection of its people. Yet, extremist-capitalist crap has so permeated American society that even governments are making foolhardy "bets". Government is not supposed to make a profit. Government cannot and should not be run like a business. In the aftermath of Katrina the Corps have again failed to adequately defend NOLA from a major storm. Insanity.
A major port has been left defenseless. 1800 lives were lost. Tens of thousands remain displaced. $81B in losses. On a bet. Serious high roller gambling there. Where are the cries of "not with my money" there? Conspicuously and glaringly absent.
As you said though, the analogy was a bit of a stretch.
Businesses making awful "bets". Tobacco, Pharma, auto, chemical and on and on. These paragons made conscious deliberate "bets" that many of their products would not be found out to be killers. Made allot of money selling products that kill and ruin lives. Propaganda outlets like CNBC made virtual stars of their CEOs!
No one on SA wants to talk about the hundreds of millions of dollars these businesses spend lobbying the government they OWN yet so vehemently hate. They don't want to talk about how they have bastardized one man one vote into one dollar one vote. They don't want to talk about using their bought and paid for congresscritters enabling their juristic person insanity wherein juristic "persons" have all the rights and none of the responsibilities that a real person has. They don't want to talk about how they have destroyed a country through their greed. They don't want to talk about how they destroyed an economy with their avarice.
Instead they cannonize wankers like Santelli when he and they rant about how awful it is for Main Street to get some of the money Wall Street believes it rightfully deserves.
Thanks again for the dialog.
On Feb 21 02:38 PM jeerio wrote:
> even though the analogy was a stretch, i'll make an attempt. NOLA
> has been a fiasco, for many of the same reasons our economic recovery
> is a fiasco. public entities, private companies and individuals
> all make conscious and sub-conscious assessments of potential risk.
> the CoE, the Executive branch, Congress, BoA, GS, etc. all engage
> in the process, as do you and i. knowing a storm of that size would
> have that effect is fairly easy to assess - selling your assessment
> to the many entities that need to pony-up to safeguard against it
> is quite another thing. at every level, we make bets that it won't
> happen to us, to me, or this year or this decade.
>
> 100-year events (along with those that have never happened at all)
> are extremely difficult to imagine, prepare for and invest in. the
> Corps would have loved it if they were given the funds and mandate
> to protect NOLA better - they weren't.
>
> the point is we'll have even bigger problems if Yellowstone blows,
> the CA fault erupts big-time, if a Cat 5 hits Manhattan, or if some
> organization uses the nuclear suitcase and renders a major city uninhabitable.
>
>
> we will fail in any of those events, as we are failing currently
> with the economy. it simply displays our limits related to making
> decisions about a whole bunch of Black Swans before we know what
> they really look like.
>
> the economic crisis is man-made, and NOLA was an act of nature, obviously.
> yet it's also our nature to believe things will be ok, even when
> we're in uncharted territory. and when we're wrong about these things,
> we need to pull together to right the ship, not simply pick winners
> and losers.
>
> i'm more interested in growing the pie once again, and not as much
> in holding on to every dollar i currently have. maybe doing both
> is possible, but it seems highly unlikely as of now.
To those of you who think tax cuts are the only way to stimulate the economy, the only person that will benefit from MY tax cut will be ME. I will save and invest it just as I do other windfalls, large or small, that I receive. If I had a small business, no amount of tax cuts all the way down to ZERO would incentivize me to hire more people in this economy. How will the new help increase sales when the consumers aren't there? Why would I look at the dismal business situation and decide to hire more help I don't need unless business gets better? This is intuitive common sense in a lot of people and you're not going to succeed in talking us down from it. By trying to you seem only to insult our intelligence.
Tax cuts did not end the Depression. If you want to believe they did more power to you. You'll never convince us that think otherwise. I read somewhere (and to be honest, it's been awhile and I'm not sure if it's true) that if it had been up to Republicans who were against all government spending back then even as they are now, we would never have had an interstate highway system.
And you people who are against anything with the slightest hint of socialism. Yet most politicians of BOTH parties scared to death to tell the unions where to get off. Well, if everyone's going to keep appeasing the bloodsucking unions that have been killing our industrial base and making our companies unable to compete, you'd better get PRACTICAL. Our companies CAN'T hope to compete against foreign companies that don't have to be out the extra money for employee health care. I am a capitalist, dammit. But you've got to make some concessions if neither party will ever have the cajones to stand up to Big Labor. We need national health care or we need to tell the union workers times are changing and they need to change too. Just because a worker turns 18 and gets a good job and it's no longer Mommy & Daddy's job to take care of them doesn't mean now it's someone else's job to take care of them. Companies have and are going broke trying. A job should enable one to provide basic needs: food, clothing, and a roof over your head. Want more? Work TWO jobs or get your ass in school. Read and learn about saving, investing, and become financially litterate. Quit killing our country by making us uncompetitive.
And quit thinking EITHER side is 100% right.
On Feb 20 01:42 PM fahrender wrote:
> additional "Great Socialist Countries"
>
> Denmark
> Sweden
> Norway
> Finland
>
> in each of these countries the general populace lives comfortably.
> there is good infrastructure, medical and health care and an excellent
> education system. Finland, for one, is widely recognized as having
> the best education system in the world.
> i, for one, am a liberal and proud of it. in the minds of idiots
> like Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin i'm a communist. i'm 72 years
> old and i'm still working.
> it's the crudest sort of rightwing propaganda to equate laziness
> with liberalism as has been done on this comment stream. what is
> wrong with people who think like this? answer: brainwashed by the
> likes of Bill O'Reilly and Larry Kudlow.
The problem is not a straight-forward, simple one. Otherwise the solution would already have been formulated and carried out. But people like Santelli --or their opposute numbers who're screaming for the heads of bankers-- get their brownie points and collect an audience. It's populism and demagoguery. Little substance there.
Totally wasted energy and time... for him, CNBC and me.
On Feb 20 07:19 AM honest mortgage guy wrote:
> I have one comment for both of you; I own a mortgage company. during
> the "go go" days, I refused to do loans for people that could not
> afford them. I made it my responsibility to "know my borrower" and
> only originate loans that they could pay back. As a result, I did
> well but nearly as well as those that practiced irresponsible lending.
> Now I see Santelli ranting on a trading floor on CNBC about the mortgage
> crisis. My income is now 40% of what it should be largely because
> of Wall Street greed. The Wall Street guy's all made their money
> and now screw the rest of us. I wonder what Santelli (and you) have
> to say about that?
The joke going around is that letting congress solve the financial crisis is like letting NFL linemen defuse a nucular weapon...close to the truth, except that it's an inuslt to the linemen!
I think most of us are irritated with the idea of helping the irresponsible, but also know our home values would be seriously hindered if we do nothing. I don't know what the answer is, but at this point, I'm rooting more for Obama than Santelli. And Smicklas can go back to blogging for the Berwyn Chamber of Commerce.
I think most of us are irritated with the idea of helping the irresponsible, but also know our home values would be seriously hindered if we do nothing. I don't know what the answer is, but at this point, I'm rooting more for Obama than Santelli. And Smicklas can go back to blogging for the Berwyn Chamber of Commerce.
Santelli may be in second place for a short while and tapped into the same sentiment that Senator McCaskill (D-Mo) expressed about the wall street outrageous expenses.
On Feb 22 10:23 AM citishark wrote:
> Have you ever hear about "re-distribution of wealth"? You -and the
> rest of us- are in the initial phases of it. If you think this is
> baaaaad, get ready: plenty more to come in the next 4 yrs! And if
> the country "do not get it" could be extended to 8 yrs.
I was speaking to a Property Manager who I moved a property I own to about the foreclosures in that area. He indicated that he knew of not one single case where the owner who lived in the property was being foreclosed. His contention was it was almost all losses by flippers that resulted in foreclosure. While this is probably an exageration, or specific to his area, there is a lot of truth in what he's saying.
Many flippers aren't lazy, they often do repairs on property they buy themselves, but for years they've made big money buying and selling property often where banks financed nearly everything. They certainly didn't see their world ending, but when it happened many walked away leaving the banks holding the bag.
Today the flippers with money are performing a service, and they should be well rewarded. They're buying the foreclosed properties, which even new have often been looted and allowed to run down, and they're fixing them up for resale. This is positive as run down properties bring everyones prices down, so they shouldn't be condemned for their actions, but the banks should perhaps be condemned for permitting flippers of the past to put in almost none of their own money in purchasing real estate.
The problem investors in real estate have is the banks have gone from one extreme to another. I'm a real estate investors, the last purchase I made was over ten years ago, few have been sold, and most of those that did were to tenants. I'm never late with mortgage payments, yet because I own over 4 properties, the banks don't want to talk to me.
My point is that banks need to service their customers instead of pulling back services. They act as though they don't have money to lend even after receiving hundreds of billions in bail out funds. If you pay down a credit card balance, they lower your credit limit even though all bills have been paid on time.
In short, it's the action of the banks that brought down the economy, and it's the lack of action by the banks that's keeping it down. It's foolish to give loans to people who can't pay them back, but it's even more foolish not to work with people who're willing to work with you by doing things like lowering interest rates at a time you can borrow from the FED at under 1%. I doubt very much that many of those foreclosed on in the last 3 years couldn't have kept their properties if offered loans at 4%. Sure, 3 years ago loans weren't that low, but with all the foreclosures occuring, they should have been, but the FED didn't see it either. Sure if the banks acted without the FED they'd have lowered profits, and no doubt lowered executive bonuses, but they'd be in far better shape.
The problem in part was the banks often didn't have a horse in the race. They simply were servicing loans they sold, if they did foreclose, others held the bag. In short, the system failed because every agency in it had opted for short term greed over long term gains.
Freddie and Fannie would never have gotten in trouble had they stuck to buying fully complying loans, but there were supposed to be bigger profits in buying others. Lending requirements were dropped to levels where I could probably have gotten a loan for my dog, if not, most certainly my daughter who's still going for a professional license so she can be paid, but currently works essentially for free. In short they all cooked the books because that's what paid the big bonuses.
Deregulation has a wonderful sound, people like to be free, but the reality is it both led to tremendous greed on the part of executives, the higher up the chain the greedier, and it led to ignoring the regulations where they were in place because the regulators made it clear that they could. That's where agencies like the SEC come in.
In short, we've had many years of our politicians, regulators, and executives essentially all saying, "Greed is good", it was a great line in the movie, but long term profit would have been far better. Companies like GM have put greed over long term profit for at least the last 40 years, failing to reinvest profit in more efficient and higher quality production facilities resulting in foreign named American made vehicles all rating higher in quality and reliability. Perhaps we needed the wake up call we're having now, it's painful, but hopefully if won't be to long before it's over.
Gary
Obama has been in office ONE month and everything is his fault... What a strange illusion some of you live under....
On Feb 20 09:10 AM willynill wrote:
> Santelli has it right, and CNBC's poll shows that 93% of respondents
> agree with him. Santelli knows that Obama's economists are not much
> smarter than Obama himself and that the "rescue plan" will not work.
> Finally, a breath of fresh air.
On Feb 20 01:51 PM Responsible Parent wrote:
> I looked at houses 3 years ago. I wanted to buy one. I live in a
> 1600 square foot house and I have 9 children. Between paying tuition
> for all of them and eating we could not afford a new house unless
> our house sold. My house did not sell. I did not move. Now, not only
> do I still need a bigger house but you people want me to pay for
> someone else's mortagage because I behaved responsibly. This is not
> greed. It is not just to ask me to do this. I will be at the tea
> party. It felt great to have someone express my views and feeling
> in a national forum.
On Feb 22 02:56 PM skitahoe wrote:
> I believe that there are as many people who'd be identified a hard
> working upper middle class or upper class people who're hurting just
> as much as those who're being classed as those not working, expecting
> a hand out. Certainly when companies go belly up, or lay off huge
> percentages of their labor force more of those laid off are middle
> to lower class, but they're not slackers, they work for a living
> and you can bet the majority are seriously looking for work.
>
> I was speaking to a Property Manager who I moved a property I own
> to about the foreclosures in that area. He indicated that he knew
> of not one single case where the owner who lived in the property
> was being foreclosed. His contention was it was almost all losses
> by flippers that resulted in foreclosure. While this is probably
> an exageration, or specific to his area, there is a lot of truth
> in what he's saying.
>
> Many flippers aren't lazy, they often do repairs on property they
> buy themselves, but for years they've made big money buying and selling
> property often where banks financed nearly everything. They certainly
> didn't see their world ending, but when it happened many walked away
> leaving the banks holding the bag.
>
> Today the flippers with money are performing a service, and they
> should be well rewarded. They're buying the foreclosed properties,
> which even new have often been looted and allowed to run down, and
> they're fixing them up for resale. This is positive as run down properties
> bring everyones prices down, so they shouldn't be condemned for their
> actions, but the banks should perhaps be condemned for permitting
> flippers of the past to put in almost none of their own money in
> purchasing real estate.
>
> The problem investors in real estate have is the banks have gone
> from one extreme to another. I'm a real estate investors, the last
> purchase I made was over ten years ago, few have been sold, and most
> of those that did were to tenants. I'm never late with mortgage payments,
> yet because I own over 4 properties, the banks don't want to talk
> to me.
>
> My point is that banks need to service their customers instead of
> pulling back services. They act as though they don't have money to
> lend even after receiving hundreds of billions in bail out funds.
> If you pay down a credit card balance, they lower your credit limit
> even though all bills have been paid on time.
>
> In short, it's the action of the banks that brought down the economy,
> and it's the lack of action by the banks that's keeping it down.
> It's foolish to give loans to people who can't pay them back, but
> it's even more foolish not to work with people who're willing to
> work with you by doing things like lowering interest rates at a time
> you can borrow from the FED at under 1%. I doubt very much that many
> of those foreclosed on in the last 3 years couldn't have kept their
> properties if offered loans at 4%. Sure, 3 years ago loans weren't
> that low, but with all the foreclosures occuring, they should have
> been, but the FED didn't see it either. Sure if the banks acted without
> the FED they'd have lowered profits, and no doubt lowered executive
> bonuses, but they'd be in far better shape.
>
> The problem in part was the banks often didn't have a horse in the
> race. They simply were servicing loans they sold, if they did foreclose,
> others held the bag. In short, the system failed because every agency
> in it had opted for short term greed over long term gains.
>
> Freddie and Fannie would never have gotten in trouble had they stuck
> to buying fully complying loans, but there were supposed to be bigger
> profits in buying others. Lending requirements were dropped to levels
> where I could probably have gotten a loan for my dog, if not, most
> certainly my daughter who's still going for a professional license
> so she can be paid, but currently works essentially for free. In
> short they all cooked the books because that's what paid the big
> bonuses.
>
> Deregulation has a wonderful sound, people like to be free, but the
> reality is it both led to tremendous greed on the part of executives,
> the higher up the chain the greedier, and it led to ignoring the
> regulations where they were in place because the regulators made
> it clear that they could. That's where agencies like the SEC come
> in.
>
> In short, we've had many years of our politicians, regulators, and
> executives essentially all saying, "Greed is good", it was a great
> line in the movie, but long term profit would have been far better.
> Companies like GM have put greed over long term profit for at least
> the last 40 years, failing to reinvest profit in more efficient and
> higher quality production facilities resulting in foreign named American
> made vehicles all rating higher in quality and reliability. Perhaps
> we needed the wake up call we're having now, it's painful, but hopefully
> if won't be to long before it's over.
>
> Gary
>
On Feb 20 08:44 AM russ wrote:
> Santelli is an idiot. If the guy next door gets unemployment money
> should I scream 'where's mine'? Or if the other neighbor collects
> a life insurance payment for a deceased spouse, should I scream 'where's
> mine'?
>
> In neither case are the neighbors better off than I am. Santelli
> is a good example of the selfishness of Wall Street. Ending the downward
> spiral of forclosures and declining values will do more to remedy
> falling assest value than all the idiot screaming reporters. In this
> case, economics and humanity got trumped by theatre.
themselves. THEY PRODUCE NOTHING! They produce no wealth.
Then they have the audacity to believe that they deserve lavish bonuses for being parasites on other people's labor. Then they complain when they may have to give up a small portion of those lavish bonuses to help their neighbors and get at the root cause of our economic problems.
Remember, a bailout will help parasites, a stimulus will help producers.
Is this a Reality Check, or am I just imagining all this:
-For the last 8 years we've been fighting a war that wasn't necessary and we can't afford.
-The bankers have been writing mortgages they know ordinary folks can't afford, and paying the entire food chain ridiculous bonus checks to do it.
-The Wall Street crowd took the bad mortgages, levered them up 40 times so that an overpriced mortgage of $500,000 now anchored $20,000,000 in toxic holdings.
-Somebody, somewhere, apparently bot & sold insurance swaps on the $20M again several times.- including around the world.
-The CEOs paid themselves about a million dollars before lunch every day to organize and orchestrate this house of cards.
-The SEC and every other watchdog was asleep before lunch, missing Madoff and Stanford which a first year rookie spotted easily.
-We already pumped a couple trillion doallars into dead walking banks and insurance corps(corpses?) and they continued paying themselves bonuses.
-We allowed the shorts to take out huge chunks of the banking system as easily as a third grader- in fact using their own rumor mill.
Now comes Santelli telling us how unfair it is to burden the wealthy with fixing the problems at hand- problems that a republican culture created, encouraged, cultivated, and took obscene profits from.
Now, like crybabies, they wail about Democratic pork and wonder why the problems they created for 8 years can't be fixed in time for the next bonus review.
Is this Reality....or have I stumbled in from another planet??
Dauntless
> Santelli himself said in the aftermath of his outburst, something
> like: "I went a bit over the top" - he was clearly backpeddling a
> bit on his rant.
Of course he is. Je has to. He's a hedge fund advisor.
Right now his hedge fund clients have clamped down on redemptions (there's the free market working for you) because they don't have the capital or will have to make bankrupting margin calls.
The hedge funds are all waiting on Geithner's PPP socialized risk, taxpayer underwriting "toxic asset" buyout/loan whatever scheme to get these junk tranches off their books and onto the taxpayers.
Santelli and other hedge fund advisors are under a microscope right now for their advice. Hedge fund clients are pension and insurance funds and they have deep pockets and more lawyers than even the hedge funds do. There are a lot of lawyers examining the contracts and pledges of hedge funds and their brokers, with a special focus on their derivative positions. Santelli is a derivatives trader. If he speaks too loudly against government guarantees, his own clients will get bitten.He cannot have it both ways.
On Feb 20 11:12 AM wpdragon wrote:
> Hey duff, when you sober up, just remember one thing:
>
> YOU LOST!
>
> So get over it and take it like a man instead of a whiner, and maybe
> try to contribute something rather than tearing down things like
> an angry little child.
On Feb 20 02:34 PM John Walter wrote:
> How fine that we have so many experts in freedom and free markets
> here! The topic can't be too complicated...just look how many people
> get the big picture!
>
> Suppose, hypothetically, I live in the great state of Florida (or
> California, or Nevada, or numerous other former growth states). I
> moved here after college in 2001, opened a flower shop (look at me,
> the entrepreneur!), got married and (after renting for a few years
> and saving a down payment of $40,000) bought a house for $400,000
> and started a family.
>
> I owe $340,000 on a house that the market values at only $200,000
> today. Some of my conservative free-market neighbors, being in a
> similar position, sent their house keys to their lenders with the
> message "Nothing personal...just business". I'm underwater by at
> least $140,000 due to the foreclosures and abandonments (and the
> market's still falling).
>
> I've an opportunity to work in another state that hasn't been hit
> as hard, but I can't afford to buy out my mortgage, so I've got to
> stay.
>
> And my business which once was doing so well is now off over 40%
> from last year. Unemployment's rising, local and state tax revenues
> are falling (as are services like police, education, highway maintenance,
> etc).
>
> Sure hope the government does nothing to help! Serves me right! Damn
> those liberals! Maybe Rick Santelli has some ideas!
>
> ---
>
> I do think we're dealing with a very difficult problem, both in scope
> and in depth. I'm tired of hearing the same simple platitudes that
> fail to take into account both the proper role of government and
> the effect of the economic downturn on much of the population. I
> elected a national leader with the expectation that he would lead.
> I haven't elected anyone on the Street, and frankly they work for
> themselves, not for me. Which explains so much of their advice, "Let's
> do it the same way we've been doing it!"
Our economic problems--and I think it's important we accept the blame equally in a so-called democracy--are deeply rooted in the greed and manipulation of the government and therefore, its people. How is it that so many are blogging their hatred towards Santelli and asking for his job when all he did was voice his OPINION--albeit on a national television show--yet have silently/openly endorsed the actions of a government (the US) that prints money through a quasi-secretive-crooke... entity called the Fed AND "creates" money out of thin air through the fractional-reserve system? In our version of the fractional reserve, for every $1 on-hand at a bank, the bank has the ability to "create" $10 out of thin air through additional loans/future deposits afforded them through the fractional-reserve system. Does that seem wrong to anyone? Basically, if I deposit $100,000 into a bank, the bank can turn around and loan out $1,000,000 worth of loans (probably sub-prime loans at that). Where did the other $900,000 come from? It was created out of thin air!!!! Then, through securitization, the bank can sell those sub-prime notes (aka toxic paper) and repeat the process over and over and over and over, while AIG "insures" these transactions through swaps. The rest of the world is pissed at us...anyone see why?
And at the same time, while the banks are creating money out of thin air, nobody knows what the M3 money supply really is, because we've allowed our govt to empower an entity to print money at-will to the detriment of its people and place the majority of it into the pockets of banking executives.
Debt is a powerful form of slavery, and we have been lulled to sleep by our own materialism. Not only have we indebted our own people, but we've indebted the rest of the world through the securitization of bad loans and through credit default swaps offered by AIG (and others), which the US government now owns approximately 80% and therefore owns 80% of AIG's debt, which might reach the trillions of dollars, because nobody REALLY knows or is talking about the extent of these swaps. Now, our own government is telling us the only way out of our debt is to go into greater debt and FINALLY people are saying..."wait a minute...that don't seem right." A negative number plus a negative number is a negative number.
We're all arm-chair economists on here, so take this for what it's worth--not much--but, it sure seems we are victims of our own greed. Certainly there are some who are innocent, but as a nation we're guilty. And, we stand guilty before the rest of the world--but they're not innocent either, so let's just get angry at each other for speaking our minds and continue passing the blame while our government figures out new creative ways to get us deeper in debt.
(Surfin U.S.A., the Beachboys)
WilliamBanzai7 and the Bailout Boys
Singalong link: www.youtube.com/watch?...
Listen everyone there's a Bailout ocean
Across the U.S.A.
Greedy bankers n CEOs are surfin'
Like its gold rush Californ-i-a
You'd seem 'em wearing their Hermes ties
Bespoke brogues too
A big flashy French jet will do
BAILOUT U.S.A.
You'd catch 'em bailout surfin' at CITI
(Inside outside U.S.A.)
AIG's bottomless line
(Inside outside U.S.A.)
Detroit City and Charlotte
(Inside outside U.S.A.)
Why won't someone draw a line
(Inside outside U.S.A.)
All over East Side Manhattan
(Inside outside U.S.A.)
Goin down the faux capitalist way
(Inside outside)
Everybody's gone bailout surfin'
BAILOUT U.S.A.
We'll all be planning out a TARP get away
We're gonna take real soon
We're waxing down our slippery surfboards
We can't wait for Dr Doom
We'll all be gone for the summer
We're on a Ponzi safari to stay
Tell the shareholders and taxpayers we're bailout surfin'
BAILOUT U.S.A.
Everybody's gone bailout surfin'
BAILOUT U.S.A.
Everybody's gone bailout surfin'
BAILOUT U.S.A
On Feb 20 02:34 PM John Walter wrote:
> How fine that we have so many experts in freedom and free markets
> here! The topic can't be too complicated...just look how many people
> get the big picture!
>
> Suppose, hypothetically, I live in the great state of Florida (or
> California, or Nevada, or numerous other former growth states). I
> moved here after college in 2001, opened a flower shop (look at me,
> the entrepreneur!), got married and (after renting for a few years
> and saving a down payment of $40,000) bought a house for $400,000
> and started a family.
>
> I owe $340,000 on a house that the market values at only $200,000
> today. Some of my conservative free-market neighbors, being in a
> similar position, sent their house keys to their lenders with the
> message "Nothing personal...just business". I'm underwater by at
> least $140,000 due to the foreclosures and abandonments (and the
> market's still falling).
>
> I've an opportunity to work in another state that hasn't been hit
> as hard, but I can't afford to buy out my mortgage, so I've got to
> stay.
>
> And my business which once was doing so well is now off over 40%
> from last year. Unemployment's rising, local and state tax revenues
> are falling (as are services like police, education, highway maintenance,
> etc).
>
> Sure hope the government does nothing to help! Serves me right! Damn
> those liberals! Maybe Rick Santelli has some ideas!
>
> ---
>
> I do think we're dealing with a very difficult problem, both in scope
> and in depth. I'm tired of hearing the same simple platitudes that
> fail to take into account both the proper role of government and
> the effect of the economic downturn on much of the population. I
> elected a national leader with the expectation that he would lead.
> I haven't elected anyone on the Street, and frankly they work for
> themselves, not for me. Which explains so much of their advice, "Let's
> do it the same way we've been doing it!"
On Feb 20 02:35 PM ETFexpert wrote:
> Mindless dribble....Again and again.....
>
> I ALMOST LOST MY LUNCH TODAY WATCHING.......
> James "con-man CRAMER,
> JACK "Blowhard" BOGLE
> JEREMY "all but financial-Dividends" SIEGEL.
>
>
>
On Feb 20 08:44 PM 6uns-n-6od wrote:
> Santelli:
> Thank you for fighting the good fight against government "fixes"
> to the "crisis".
> Since October you have been consistently critical of the past and
> current
> administration's "efforts" to fix this mess, pointing out that every
> time the
> government gets involved, something bad happens. Everyone I talk
> to agrees
> with you, but my sample is limited to people with jobs, so it is
> probably not
> statistically significant...
>
> White House:
> Turn off the TV and get to work. If you can't take criticism, bail
> now and let
> the next crop of rookies give it a try.
On Feb 21 03:52 AM User 361395 wrote:
> When my house tripled in value (according to my bank) in 3 years
> that was
> a leftist plot? When 3 different companies traded my mortgage in
> the same time frame, like a bet at the track, that wasn't because
> of the "markets modernization act" ? When AIG sold insurance on the
> same bad debt over and over and over Xs 100 ....that's was us losers
> (working stiffs) manipulating the market??? Not traders on a floor
> somewhere in that alter universe of Porche and Mercedes driving uber
> successful grifters called traders?
>
> Yea we're losers Rick. In the same way someone that hands over his
> wallet when he has a knife in his ribs. A knife wielded by someone
> he was a loser to trust. Like Bear Stearns, AIG, Phil Grahm and the
> republicans.
>
> Yup. I'm a loser even though I bailed @ the high. I saw it was a
> ponzi scheme
> when I went in for a loan for my addition. I put my house on the
> market instead.
> I walked with cash but I'm still a loser and so are all of you, because
> our country's been crippled.
> I could read the writing on the wall...and your telling me these
> high end MBAs couldn't? Pulllleazze!!
> I worked construction all my life for God sakes.
> I saw it for what it was.
> They saw it, they promoted it, they profited on it.
> I hope Rick Santelli and every one of his ilk that didn't speak out
> end up in a homeless shelter. It would be the only justice.
>
> You think I'm a lazy socialist? I think you need to pour concrete
> in
> New England in January, put on roof shingles in Florida in July.
>
> I'll work any of you paper pushers into a coronary.
> Who do you think we are? Us real working Americans?
> Oh...right..losers...w... you've made sure of that...
On Feb 21 01:12 PM jeerio wrote:
> Santelli himself said in the aftermath of his outburst, something
> like: "I went a bit over the top" - he was clearly backpeddling a
> bit on his rant. any one of us could stand in front of a homogeneous
> group and eliecit a certain response to a fenzied question. it was
> great theater, but it contained neither a fully-formed thought nor
> a deep appreciation for the complexities of the issue.
>
> similar to our standoff with the banking system, we are loathe to
> pick the winners and losers at this stage. the government knows it
> faces outrage regardless of which direction it moves. the private
> and public entities responsible for this mess both had many opportunities
> to address the abuses and failed to do so. in the main, i find it
> hard to blame most of the individuals who got caught up in the problem
> and now need assistance of some sort.
>
> when stupidity and greed overtake the largest systems and markets
> we have, we really have little choice but to attempt to save the
> fabric of the society and capitalistic principles most of us believe
> in. the harsh reality of having to temporarily violate any of those
> principles in the short-term is a price we'll have to pay.
>
> while it may be a stretch, an analogy is New Orleans and Katrina.
> should we have not assited that community because they chose to live
> there? because they chose to believe their leaders were keeping them
> safe? because no one thought such a storm was possible?
>
> it's the price of having a society that's worth saving - nothing
> more, nothing less.
On Feb 21 09:42 PM Aalan wrote:
> Santelli says he doesn't want to pay for his neighbor's extra bathroom.
> Most people aren't underwater with new mortgages because they have
> an extra bathroom, but because mortgage brokers colluded with appraisers
> to inflate prices.
>
> Santelli says the guys in on the trading floor behind him all agree
> with him (no one spoke for the camera), and they are a cross-section
> of America. That's a clueless idea of a cross section: a bunch of
> guys with jobs in the financial sector? How about retirees, recently
> laid off, or people with health problems?
>
> If he doesn't like Obama's efforts to save a seriously-ill economy,
> what does he propose instead? Anger might feel good, but doesn't
> solve anything. There are three houses on my block for sale for a
> year. We would like to sell ours (not because of mortgage problems,
> but lifestyle change in retirement), but can't because of the desperation
> in the market. Would I like to help these neighbors stay in their
> homes, and make ours the best house for sale in the neighborhood?
> You bet!
>
> Multiply that by the extra million or so houses glutting the market,
> and you have a program filling a real need. Or no program, and watch
> the economy continue to smother in its own waste.
>
> If Santelli hates the idea of any tax money of his going to make
> things better for a neighbor, when that's the only way to stop the
> ongoing destruction of our collective welfare, he should go buy his
> own island and not worry about it.
>
On Feb 21 11:29 PM Crosscreek wrote:
> Mmm. Where was this author when Bush plugged in 750 billion to banks,
> with the great free market policy of allowing massive bonuses to
> be paid to underperforming CEO's with our tax dollars? Not a word,
> of course. As for Rick, who never ranted once against the trillion
> dollars wasted in Iraq or non-regulated swaps, spare us the lecture.
On Feb 22 11:48 PM rudya wrote:
> People who produce goods that can be sold and exported are producers.
> Everyone else is a parasite. They cannot make money without taking
> energy (money) from those who produce. These bankers, traders in
> the pit are parasites that manipulate producers' money and skim a
> percentage for
> themselves. THEY PRODUCE NOTHING! They produce no wealth.
>
> Then they have the audacity to believe that they deserve lavish bonuses
> for being parasites on other people's labor. Then they complain when
> they may have to give up a small portion of those lavish bonuses
> to help their neighbors and get at the root cause of our economic
> problems.
>
> Remember, a bailout will help parasites, a stimulus will help producers.
>
>