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WPP PLC (NASDAQ:WPPGY)

March 04, 2013 1:40 pm ET

Executives

Paul Richardson - Group Finance Director and Executive Director

Martin S. Sorrell - Group Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director

Unknown Analyst

Well, welcome to the afternoon, agencies and media track. Coming up next up is WPP Group. WPP is the largest advertising and marketing services company in the world. Its major global agencies include JWT, and Y&R, Ogilvy & Mather and Grey not to mention others. The company is also the largest media buyer with 4 top-tier media buying and planning businesses, grouped together under the GroupM. It also leads the industry with its market research franchise. I'm very pleased to have with us here today, CFO, Paul Richardson, and out in the audience is IR, Fran ButeraI. I think what we're going to do first is Paul is going to go through some prepared remarks, and then we'll do a fireside chat and also have some Q&A with the audience.

Paul Richardson

Hi, good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I'll just give you a 2-minute update, and if anybody is interested, I wasn't going to refer to the slides at all, but everybody has hard copies of the presentation we gave out on Friday of the full year results just back on the table there, if anyone wants to go through it.

So just to summarize the year. I mean 2012, in my view, is a challenging year it was witnessed by the trends on organic revenue growth for group. So we started off strongly at 4% in quarter 1, then we were 3% in Q2, just under 2% in the third quarter and then finishing slightly stronger at up 2.5% in the fourth quarter, making 2.9% for that year, and that followed 2011 and '10 which were both growing at over 5%

But despite this, we improved our reportable sterling headline profits by 7% and earnings per share by about 8%. And we achieved our improvement objective 0.5 margin points in the margin from 14.3 to 14.8. We had the good fortune to record 2 exceptional gains during the year from the sale our stake in Buddy Media and the second from the sale a free haul property in New York. The cash proceeds are about GBP 145 million and the accounting gains about GBP 102 million.

Also, we have taken an exceptional restructuring charge of around GBP 93 million during the year, principally to address certain structural business issues in Western Continental Europe and to accelerate the group's approach to centralizing certain IT services following Hurricane Sandy. I would point out that we had in our normal P&L, a further GBP 51 million of severance, very similar to that which we incurred in '10 of GBP 54 million. So in addition to above that, there was this GBP 93 million exceptional. I think, the breakout is something like GBP 52 million, of which was severance and the balance in other items.

The balance sheet and cash flow remains strong, with this year's cash generation of just over GBP 1 billion, that's after taxes, interest and capital expenditures. And we funded over 16 new acquisitions, principally new markets and new media, and in fact in both of those, new markets is now 30% of the group and new media is approximately 32%, including one of the leading digital agency, AKQA.

Finally, at the same time, we increased our dividend by 16% throughout the year, with the payout ratio which is now 39%, having been 31% 2 years ago. And over the last 2 years of 2011 and 2012, we increased our earnings by almost 30%, 3-0, and our dividends per share by 60%, 6-0 percentage. That was a quick summary of how I saw the year, the end of it. So I'll pursue that with any questions you have.

Question-and-Answer Session

Unknown Analyst

Sure. Let's just chronologically continue on how you see the beginning of the year for 2013.

Paul Richardson

We've only reported January, and we said it was, actually better than budget, slightly ahead of what we expected. It was just over 2%. We are, given the comparative quarter with 4% last year, obviously, the comparative is a little stronger but actually it was above budget and actually we were slightly pleased with the results. We've got -- I mean, the expectation was we got off to a slightly stronger start than we expected. So February will come out in a few days time. No doubt we'll get into the terrible habit of giving you monthly updates each month except when we don't want to. But I think, at the end of the day, if you sat right down from it, at the beginning of the year, we said we'll try to do 4%, and we delivered 3%. So the variation maybe -- the delta maybe 1% plus or minus. A few months back, we said the operating businesses were looking at 4% for '12. We said the parent company we thought that was too aggressive. The group having done slightly better in the final quarter suggested down the comparable, and now, the businesses are coming at 3%. I also think it's very consistent with what the competitors are saying. Our full year growth was 2.9%, Publicis was 2.9%, Omnicom was 5%. So we are all in a pretty close band in terms of organic expectations full year. All of us are expecting strong Asia-Pacific, Latin America, faster growing markets growth. All of us are expecting good growth, all of us is planning it hard in Western continent Europe, and North America is still a little bit of a question mark in which way or when it will improve, let's put it that way.

Unknown Analyst

So yes, I mean, on the -- let's dissect the U.S. piece a little bit. It's been a little weaker than you expected despite a relatively stable backdrop with some anxiety around various events in Washington, can you focus that down a little bit?

Paul Richardson

I think it is disappointing. I would say our performance in the USA is the one area where we are least happy with the rest of our performance. It's clearly been that impacted, in our case, by a number of areas, public relations as being one, which has been I think being pretty well spoken about in terms of the slowness in the lobbying arena. Health care has also been fairly difficult. Although I would say that there has now been an increasing trend in health care consolidations of which ourselves, Publicis and Omnicom, in particular are all taking quite significant advantage of. And then a number of major health care clients that have really gone to holding companies and seen the value of consolidated health care approaches both at the agency side and the professional side on a combined basis. So health care has been a little sluggish. The approval has been a little slow at the FDA, and a number of health care companies, I think, are under some pressure themselves to deliver the new branded pipelines as the drug has come off branded. The -- if I could go through the rest of the business, market research has been a difficulty for us in a certain particular category. So if I break our research business down just into 2 components: you got the custom piece of the business, which is about 60% in our case; and the syndicated and semi-syndicated is about 40%. And on the results, we broke it out into both -- in the custom and the mature markets which was difficult -- mature markets being U.K., Western Continental Europe and North America. And we actually said the custom research business was down around 5% in those markets but the same custom business in the faster growing markets, was up 6%. The syndicated business has been up 7% or 8% all year. And so again, we've had some issues with our custom business in North America, as well as Western Continental Europe and the U.K. So and that is 1/4 quarter of our group overall, so that also is a bit of a drag. Whereas our agencies, I think in our media bearing business has been doing okay, so I think it's just really the pattern of the businesses, no great catalysts. So growth apart from what I see as some health care consolidations. On auto which is traditionally a very big category, I think we've had a very consistent, very loyal, very transparent client in Ford, who is doing well and we've done well with it. But it has been not a sea change environment which 1 year, we're down significantly and the next year up, we've been remarkably consistent, and they have to in their marketing spends. So it's really a combination of all those factors.

Unknown Analyst

All right. And with the health care consolidations aspect which is going to provide you with some tailwind this year?

Paul Richardson

Without question.

Unknown Analyst

Okay. All right. And so within domestically or North America, are you hearing anything from clients as to whether or not they are, they aren't adjusting their behavior at all related to some of the uncertainties around Washington?

Paul Richardson

No. I think it's still a bit early. Martin does put it exceptionally well in the press release, you should read through it. Why companies are being, I'd say, conservative, and what -- it's really about, I mean, in one bucket it's conservative in investments. It's new investment, which is -- he has been singled out within [indiscernible] results making some very big investments in some very mature markets. Most companies are making new investments in the faster growing markets. It requires a lot of confidence to make a significant reinvestment or additional investment in the mature markets in the current scenario, that probably is lacking. The uncertainly of the taxes and spending cuts isn't helping a number of different economies currently. And I think chief executives are -- they are watching the way the wind will go, post the sequestration and what was the fiscal cliff. So it's finding that impetus to make that new demand. Although, when you speak to individual companies, they are still very committed. There's no sign that their cutting marketing spend as such. And obviously, some of it is the reallocation from traditional to digital. But I think it's more having the courage of that conviction to increase the additional investments in some of the mature markets whereas the natural inclination is to make the incremental investment in the faster growing markets today.

Unknown Analyst

As an agency and the provider of services, what are the incremental bets that you're making around technologies, geographies?

Paul Richardson

Well, I think we've been very clear that in the fast growing market and digital, opportunities remain. Many of them in the -- in this society in the mature markets, some have the capabilities, the strongest here. And I think big data, as you see in our press release, is the first time we really mentioned it, is the application of software and analytics to our industry. Harnessing and combining with big data to give ourselves a proprietary advantage or a proprietary information to the benefit of clients. So I would say, our store has been pretty well set. We've always been the one that's been the most committed to market research and consumer insights. We are the second largest in the world in that case we can't turn now. We've always had a leadership position in the emerging markets. Certainly, the BRICs, which we intend to further in the CIVETS and the other markets. Africa, being mentioned, you'll see a number acquisitions that we've made in Africa recently, we have a big business there already. Middle East, despite the turbulence, we continued to be big believers in the Middle Eastern market, of a strong base. So it's partly -- I mean, we're the very first company of any corporation to go into Myanmar after the U.S. lifted the sanctions. So I think, it's early, but it's a very small business. These are GBP 5 million businesses, so it's not going to change the needle. If you go back over 20 years, the maximum we have been able to grow organically in terms of shifting from mature to fast growing is about 1% per annum. And I think that's -- if you look at the needle, digital has been different, 11% in 2000 was additional share, it's now 32%. That has obviously comes through a number of major acquisitions along the way, 24/7, AKQA to name the 2.

In the fast growing markets, there's nothing of scale to be bought. It is otherwise owned by the 4 holding companies, and so it is much more organic in nature. And again, some of the charts in the presentation show us and the 4 competitors what our relative share, an absolute share is in these marketplaces. And so I think it's more of an organic story at the end of the day, a 1% to 2% per annum lift through that.

Unknown Analyst

Okay. You touched upon the proprietary technology, your approach is slightly different than what would we hear from some of the other groups. And what is it about having a proprietary technology that can be source of the competitive advantage from you? Is it -- for you? Is it the data?

Paul Richardson

I think, it's the ability to marry the consumer insight data and the media data at our choosing without third-party overview in the process. That is very helpful. First of all, we're capturing the data on the consumer insights side ourselves We are capturing the data on the media side ourselves. The ability to merge that and marry it and then get the best efficiency from that on behalf of the client is actually our initial thinking. There are some projects that we are also trying to marry with the clients data, their own collected sources of data. So that's the opportunity. But to have that backbone in which we control and can scale is what 24/7 is actually driving. Their performance proves, I think, in one sense that they are being efficient, they are getting the scale. I know they've started principally in the markets of U.K., U.S. and Germany, but we are now expanding our presence to about 25 markets around the world and other markets quite rapidly. So it is an advantage. I think you're going to need your panel later. They will probably tell you what the great attributes are to digital media. I think, the other element is that there is a big difference between what they publish and receive to every digital dollar that is spent by the client. There are a number of middlemen along the way that take quite a big slice of the dollar. And so when a publisher receives a $0.20 on $1 whereas the client spends $100. That is a very different than other media, where it's a much more efficient market in the middle. And I think there's a time, maybe in time that market will close down or the gap will close between what the client pays for and what the publisher receives as we get more efficient in the middle part of the process.

Unknown Analyst

Are you -- Have you been able to -- through your technology strategy, have been able to recapture some of that -- [indiscernible]?

Paul Richardson

I think, we capture and we invest. I mean, I think it is all about the scale, it is all about the volume, but there is a lot of investment that's being made. Because the digital buying 4 years ago was still very analog in execution in my view. And so there is a whole element that is building along that line. It is about the efficiency of it. And some of these media are very small in comparison to radio, press or TV, which I've thought both very efficiently because they are the majority of the marketplace. So digital media is still only 22% of the marketplace, mobile is only 1% of the marketplace, so traditional media is the rest. And so the key opportunity, I think, is the measurement because we all find it quite difficult to cross measure the efficiency between the traditional media and the digital. So when there is a much more common measurement standard, it's is going to be easier for clients, it's going to be easier for agencies to explain the efficiency and the effectiveness they are actually achieving through the digital buyers in particular.

Unknown Analyst

Do you think that the insights that have arisen as a result of your platform have resulted in any more or less use of third-party measurement data from Thom score, Nielsen or others or is changed in any way?

Paul Richardson

I doubt if I can judge those and I'm not going to judge on that one.

Unknown Analyst

Okay. One other aspect of your approach that I think is unique is your ability to bring teams to service clients. Has that been able to -- how unique is that in the marketplace? And can you cite examples where you think that that's been a key factor in winning business?

Paul Richardson

Yes. I think it -- well it's something we have believe in the corporation, coordination the most strongly. And can it be replicated? Absolutely. I mean, in theory, it can. So long as there is that belief within the business that it's better to coordinate, incorporate around the client to their benefit, and not be, let's say, restricted to the pillars in which you operate. So we separated out -- and I suppose it goes right back to our fundamental approach to how we acquire businesses. And well, that's a long time ago now. But when we were starting off, we were buying an agency, a public relations business, a direct marketing business and we have something called the specialists businesses where they all would sit. And so it was quite common for Wunderman, which was the one our direct marketing agency to be working with JWT. It would not be uncommon for Wunderman to partner with Ogilvy to work with a common client. So the approach was on a common client, it doesn't matter what your tribe was, but you had to work together. We started with the team leaders, and now, we've expanded that to 30 team leaders. And what we have found, and it's been right back to -- I think, HSBC, probably about 12, 13 years ago, our growth on the team account has been faster than our major global accounts. So that in itself proves that we can be successful. The integrated approach, when it's applied well to clients, is very efficient as well. We've done a -- I think, a very -- I mean, we've got some I think -- some clients who have been very pleased and are prepared to reflect this, with speaking to other clients. And I think our work for Ford in particular when they were going through their crises, at Team Detroit, we all came together as one and put 7 different agencies under one building, all for the benefit of Ford, actually created content of the product went up immeasurably. So when you've got clients saying, "Actually, we think it's a good thing. We could see the integration." It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. When we gave out the results on Friday, on the first page wins, there were 14 wins and 1 digital AOR, and they were all of size. So I think it is -- and I think you go right back to the strategy of the holding companies. We've always said it's the small shops will do well, the local market. The global markets are will doing well with the multinationals and it's a mid-type -- mid-tier players who'll get squeezed out. When we consolidate or win a team approach, we are probably knocking out some 70 or 80 local agencies in the process. In one of the pharma companies we would win the hundreds, when the 3 parent companies consolidated. So there is -- I think there is a share win in the team approach, not from the other majors but actually from the midsized agencies, and that's where I think there is advantage, and there is efficiency being driven. So we are firm believers. The proof is in the success that we deliver. If we are not successful, the clients will soon tell us, and you'll see us and others being jettisoned as no longer team leader for that particular client. But so far, I think in the -- if you go longer than 5 years, but in the last 5 years, we are seeing it in scale, we are seeing it in the production side, we are seeing it in the media side because there were clearly benefits in consolidation. We are now beginning to see it in the research side. We are seeing it in other sides of the coin. I think it's here to stay for a while so long as we as agencies can prove its effectiveness to our client.

Unknown Analyst

Does it play a role in enabling you to -- you get towards your margin targets any sooner than you otherwise would if you didn't pursue a team approach?

Paul Richardson

The most sufficient business to win is to win business from your existing client base. So that actually is, it is very beneficial to achieve that. The new wins, although great headlines, and actually was one of the reasons why I quoted on the results announcement. I said actually for now from a team accounts, you don't have such a setup costs that you'll not pay for than other accounts which you traditionally win. Normally, it's a 90-day build up phase as the other agency is basically terminated and they're winding down and The client is still paying the old agency. When you win a new account, you are basically working for free for the first 90 days as than upfront investment. On a team accounts, you tend to get at least some recognition for the team that's being put in place on day 1 to take the turnover -- the changeover quicker. So going back to basics, the best business to win is to grow fast your existing client, it's the farmer-hunter approach, and if that is the case, it's one of the factors although I wouldn't put -- it's quite hard for us to quantify how much these all mean. But I'd say that we've been very pleased with progress so far, but I'm sure there's a lot more we can do as well.

Unknown Analyst

Okay. That's a pretty good segue to talk about margin and margin expectations for 2013, which strikes me that the very low costs buffer is lower now than it was before. Does that present any challenges for you in being able to get where you need to be?

Paul Richardson

Yes. I think, before the results day, we were quite concerned that the analysts will put our margin up by more than 0.5 margin points because they are taking the restructuring charge. The truth is -- and this is I think the background to why Martin said the reason we made the results ugly, not the phrase I would have chosen myself, was that actually the bonuses were depressed by that GBP 50 million. They came down from 7.2% to 6.7% of the proportion of revenue. So the restructuring actually helps us get on top of some long-term structural issues in Western Continental Europe. In fact, our margins in the Western Continental Europe aren't bad. They did come down modestly but they're not terrible. But actually, that will give us a lift. But part of the payoff is that, should our businesses do well on the basis of some of this restructuring provision going through, there will be more bonus earned. So I think the half margin point is a sensible number to aim for, for this year given that we would hope, a, to be more I think effective on pre-bonus basis, i.e. stronger, but more bonus being accrued at the end of the year. So net-net, half margin point would drop out the bottom. So I think that's the way we're looking at it. I mean, we are one of the few that are committing to half margin point continually. And in fact, for the last 2 years, it's been 1.6 margin points, 1.1 last year, 0.5 -- sorry, 1.1 the year before and 0.5 last year. On a constant-currency basis, it's been closer to 1.9. Currency will help us for once in '13. Sterling is particularly weak so as you've noticed.

Unknown Analyst

What's the benefit as we stand here today?

Paul Richardson

What I said on the call was that last year, we lost 2.3%. We will get all that back, plus a little bit more if currencies stay where they are on Friday.

Unknown Analyst

Is that helping out on the 50 basis points of margin?

Paul Richardson

It shouldn't really impact margin but it has a remarkable tendency to get wrong way when you need it most. No, it's basically margin neutral. But if you now look how fast -- our best margin is in the Asia-Pacific market and so the relative change of the sterling versus Asia-Pacific market is probably a good indicator of how will it affect our margin but it's only 30% of the group. So normally, currency does not impact margin. And if it does, it tends to be just 0.1 either side of what it would otherwise be reported.

Unknown Analyst

Okay. Start thinking about questions while I keep going, I've got a long list. But we'll circle the mic, raise your hands and we'll get to your questions. Does your 0.50 target have a headcount assumption? I think that is within it.

Paul Richardson

Always low to midway to revenue growth, we hope. It started off well. In fact, last year, to be fair, I think the criticism that we had of ourselves is that we believe the operating companies would grow at 4%, they said. So the backend of 2011 and the first say quarter, if not 2 quarters this year, we were still hiring. So on average for the year, in '12, headcount was up 1.6%, by the end of the year, December to December, headcount have reduced by 0.4. I mean, we achieved -- we expect that downward step to continue for a few months as the restructuring takes full effect. So I mean, the key is to -- it's really not that complicated. If you're growing costs, staff costs and headcounts slower than revenues, we'll get more profit. But it's a remarkably hard message to get across sometimes.

Unknown Analyst

Okay. Let's take a question, in the back first.

Unknown Analyst

[indiscernible] from [indiscernible]. A quick question about the digital space and the complicated relationship with Google, which sir Martin has been clear about for a long time. You note in the deck that having your own platform has given you advantages. So I'm wondering if you might be able to comment on some of those advantages and also whether you'll continuing to differentiate against the other groups which seem somewhat more dependent on Google?

Paul Richardson

Yes. It is a 2-way relationship. I mean, the platform itself is really -- if I try to spend maybe if I'm not clear because I'm probably not that knowledgeable about every aspect of it, we can chat outside, but it really is the narrowing of the data and the scale. First of all, you've got to have the scale to be most effective in media. Digital media was no different from any other. And in -- by having access to the backbone, does allow you to collect as much data as is regulatory permitted. Now I'd say the caveat, all our businesses is, it's still unclear about the privacy aspect and how much data where we are not first party collectors. So when you go into your laptop, you sign onto any of the major sites, Google, Facebook, et cetera, you're giving your first party authorization whether you realize it or not. We don't always have that access. And depending on the regulatory side, that can be an issue. Although, I think we are finding opportunities to collect first party approvals as well. At the end of the day, we have to make it more valuable to the consumer if they want to engage with us. So we have -- okay, so we triple opt-in and as you can see, we are perfectly happy to do so. So what is -- the industry has to make it more valuable to the end-user consumer to be able to share that data with us. It's simple but not always easy. Google, as we mentioned before, if I take the biggest traditional media owner last year '12, we spent around $2.6 billion with them, Newscorp number. Google, in '11, we spent about USD 1.6 billion, has just gone up to just over USD 2 billion. So in our ranking of media owner, they're almost the -- well, they are effectively the second-largest media owner in which we are paying media time to. So in one sense they are, a, we are a big provider to them of media space and they are a big seller of it. At the same time, we are trying to make sure that we are not dislodged from our major corporates. And if you go back to where -- how they started, it was the R word and the G word. The G word is we basically get knocked out of selling to major corporate because of direct access from Google or others. And I don't think -- I think, the old example of Time Warner, that failed when it went direct to clients. Google has not been successful on any of its attempts to go directly to the major multinationals without the agencies. And I think we are working much better together at doing this, both Google and Facebook as partners, approaching the multinationals to basically help them be aware of the benefits of their services and it comes back to a little bit is -- the difficulty is the measurement systems are not the same. So the CMO, finds it quite hard to analyze what is a good value this will do compared to what is a good value of traditional deal. So for the moment, we are partnering well. We're still frenemies, but we're more friend than enemy in the partnership.

Unknown Analyst

Earlier today, one of your peers commented on the pharmaceutical advertising and the slowdown in that area, could you comment on that? And also any sense of the outlook, is any of that being offset by health care services or biologics?

Paul Richardson

Yes. I think -- I tried to -- I think, it has been difficult. Actually, it's not just 1 year, I think, for 2 years. Partly, when these pharma companies combined, the budgets get frozen while they work out what their sales budget is actually going to be on a combined basis. So that has been an impact for, I'd say, at least 2 years. We were certainly cushioned by a very major win 24 months ago, that cushioned us in '11. We felt that, I think, the full force of it in '12. But what I would say, as I mentioned, the team approaches on the pharma consumer -- well, we have the pharmaceutical brand, is going to provide a big plus for those parent companies, which are participating in the consolidations. And I would say that the whole industry has seen that. And now the whole industry is hoping that these things will come to both on the professional side and the consumer side of the pharmaceutical marketing. So I don't think that is going to be as big issue as, say, some other factors, which are in difficulty still, say, telecommunications where some major players have changed dramatically the share of budget they have made, and they traditionally been a very big spender. So telecom has been a big -- I mean, it's actually in the handout, it's a big category. So I think, as it should, the worst, let's say, the parent companies will benefit now from the pharma consolidation and the team approaches that have been put in place.

Unknown Analyst

Let's talk about market research a little bit more. Transaction in Synovate, in Nielsen, and Armitron, do you have any comments and thoughts on how those transactions could change the competitive landscape?

Paul Richardson

Well it's always difficult. And I think major acquisitions are never easy. I would say that the Ipsos/Synovate had illustrated that fairly clearly that putting these businesses together is difficult. It tends to mean the business become internally focused. And the top line suffers. And I know we've only had one quarter of Synovate revenues, but they were disappointing at minus 1. USA was down 4%. But they will get through that. I mean, again, they've identified, there are only 4 major market-research companies that can service global multinationals. And so if the same thing goes on that's gone on in media and in pharmaceutical, in the research side, and we have seen some examples of it, it could benefit the 4. Although, I do think it will benefit Nielsen and ourselves more so, more than our fair share.

Unknown Analyst

Does the capacity coming out to help pricing at all?

Paul Richardson

Pricing is -- well, partly, it's gone to the web. So yes, a lot of the -- I mean, I used to say 5 years ago, it was the price was the first consideration. So cost is the first consideration, price and then speed. Today, it's speed, price, quality last. It really fits in terms of where people see qualified. If you're launching your product, you'd rather get an internet power perspective within 20 minutes or 12 hours of that new launch, then wait 2 months for that statistically correct study that's come back in a whole mound of paper. So it's taken us a while to move that direction. And I think actually now with the panels and the other tools that are available in the research side, they are much more proactive, predictive as opposed to historical analysis of what has happened. So the more enabled they become, the more predictive and it all has do with neurosciences going on right now in terms of market research area, the more valuable they will be seen. And I think that is a trend as we bring that to bear and the data that we collect on it, neither with the media data, is going to be very powerful. And so if we can show that, the clients are going to be willing to buy and invest in that more than they have done today, because it has been seen, I think, a little bit as a discretionary spend within the marketing budget for those companies that haven't been as committed as they were in the past to the insights and R&D aspect of their product development. So I am hopeful, I would say, again, that our market research business will be much closer to group average this year in '13 than it was in prior years. I have said that with confidence for a number of years at the start of the year, although I strongly believe it this year.

Unknown Analyst

And just finally, in January, the January numbers you talked about, market research is participating in that?

Martin S. Sorrell

They did well in January.

Unknown Analyst

Okay. Well, that's about all the time we have. Paul, I want to thank you for being here.

Paul Richardson

Okay, thanks very much.

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