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Caesars Entertainment (NASDAQ:CZR)

DbAccess Consumer, Retail, Gaming & Lodging Conference

March 05, 2013 8:40 am ET

Executives

Eric Hession - Vice President of Finance and Treasurer

Unknown Analyst

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for coming. I'm happy to host Eric Hession, as VP and Treasurer of Caesars Entertainment. As we traditionally do, we're just going to do some Q&A. And if someone does have a question as we're going through or wants to ask a follow-up, just raise your hand, and we'll interrupt. Otherwise, we'll open it to Q&A in the last 15 minutes or so. Eric, thanks again for joining us.

Eric Hession

Glad to be here.

Question-and-Answer Session

Unknown Analyst

We'll get started with Las Vegas, obviously, some news yesterday with your friends at Boyd selling some land, and I guess, when you guys think about your outlook for the Strip as it pertains to the broader market generally as well as at Caesars, where do you see kind of the opportunities for the market itself to begin to accelerate at maybe a little bit of a faster pace? And specifically, for Caesars, where do see your biggest opportunities to kind of grow your business in that market?

Eric Hession

Yes, it's certainly pertinent to talk about the market given the sale yesterday, as I mentioned last night at dinner, because it was so recent, we don't have too many comments because we haven't had time to analyze it, of course. But in general, when we look across all of our different markets, we're the most bullish on Las Vegas, but we're not expecting Herculean results in the near term in any degree. But that said, I think when you look at the demographics of the market and you look at the kind of the demand patterns that are coming in, over the midterm period, we have reason to be optimistic. From a capacity standpoint, the expansion of capacity is relatively limited. Even with the announcement yesterday, it's still going to be a number of years before capacity is added. The only real additional capacity is coming from SLS down the street in the far north end of the corridor. And that's 1,600 rooms on the base of, call it, 120,000 or so. So we believe that the city has recovered from the large influx of capacity that occurred over the last 3 to 4 years, and occupancies are generally back to their same level. The question is, at what point do rates start to rise back to the previous point. And a lot of that's heavily determined by the group business. The group business recovered very strongly in 2010 and into '11. And then 2012, as I think our peers would say as well, was generally flat to kind of normal year for conventions on a sequential year basis. We have -- when we look ahead, the conventions are reasonable for 2013. We'd expect them to start to improve in terms of what we have on the books for the latter part. And then '14 looks quite good, so we're quite pleased with that. When you look at Caesars specifically, we've really taken the approach in terms of the allocation of our capital in the market to target the non-gaming side of the business. And we've done that in a number of ways, most dramatically, you can see that at Caesars Palace where we've changed out nearly every restaurant that we have. We opened the Octavius Tower. We just opened the Nobu Tower, as well as the Nobu Restaurant. I'd encourage everybody to check out the rooms. They're really fabulous and they're being well-received by the visitors that we have. We're also spending considerable amount on The Linq, which includes about 200,000 square feet of retail space right in the middle of our zone along the Strip, and also it consists of the world's largest observation wheel. We'd expect the Linq from the retail space to start getting open towards the end of this year, and then the wheel in the middle part of next year. We also went and financed a complete redevelopment of the Bill's Casino, which is on the corner of Las Vegas and Flamingo. That's going to be a full casino room renovation restaurant, as well as building a 65,000 square foot club pool environment on the top, which will consist of a platform that's being built out to expand the size of it. And we're also going to be shortly announcing a partner for our brand for that hotel. So we'll brand it as a well-known brand that I think everybody would be familiar with, but I cannot announce it today because we don't have the final contract signed, but we're quite excited about that. So when you look at what we're trying to do for our area of the Strip, we're really investing considerably in creating amenities that will draw people into our area. And we believe that the demand for that product is on the middle to lower end in terms of price point, so there won't be another Louis Vuitton or Tiffany's. There'll be much more fun retail entertainment offerings, there'll be mid-price point food, there'll be a number of bars, it'll be a place that you'd want to go during your day -- during your night to enjoy yourself. And we believe that that's what the city needs. I don't think the city needs, at this point, additional gaming capacity or additional hotel rooms.

Unknown Analyst

And you brought up the topic of kind of group business attraction. And when you look around the Strip in terms of just events citywide, as well as just traditional group business, things do look like they've gotten back to a normalized percentage of the mix as to where they were before, but it seems like pricing has kind of been stagnant-ish. Are we getting -- when you look out to '14, and as you mentioned, '14 looks a lot better, do you see pricing there? And I can recall your peers saying this time last year, they're looking out to '13, it was better, but then the pricing kind of fell apart, I guess, and we had a flattish year. So how comfortable could you get with the outlook from an ADR standpoint on that group business?

Eric Hession

Yes, it's a great question. And although we do have the most visibility into groups, we still don't have perfect visibility into what the rates are ultimately going to be. I think you have to rely on the fact that there's a high correlation between the general demand coming in from the groups and the ADR that we're effectively able to charge. So we're seeing a lot of demand in 2014 for group business. Now the question is, will that persist? And when we actually get to 2014, will the in-the-year, for-the-year bookings that drive that kind of marginal, say, 30% of the business, will they come in? And I think what happened in 2012 was that you saw that, that really short-term group booking window didn't really materialize, particularly towards the end. And I think when you look at '13, if you forecast that forward and you assume that it's not going to happen, then I think you're kind of hearing what most people are reflecting. Could that turnaround? I think it absolutely could, but I don't think people are confident enough to really bake that into their forecast.

Unknown Analyst

Understood. And you obviously touched on a few of them with a project that, that builds and linked, being the bigger one in Nobu Tower. But we you guys think from bigger picture and not just in Las Vegas, but with respect to other capital allocations, you currently have activity in Baltimore and some other spots, more local. When you do think about your projects and your capital allocations and you benchmark that against other potential uses of cash, what are some of the triggers and I guess return thresholds that you're thinking about? And how are you kind of bucketing those capital allocation decisions?

Eric Hession

Yes, again, good question. We spend a lot of time trying to make sure that we efficiently allocate our capital, given that our leverage position somewhat requires that in terms of making sure that we can generate strong returns. If you look at the approach that we've taken in the last, say, 2 to 3 years and how to pursue the joint venture projects, we generally take a minority position from an equity standpoint, sign a management agreement and then manage the facility and allocate in our expenses in terms of the corporate support. And that provides a very high return on that equity dollar for us. And it's -- it also allows us to get the synergies from the cross-market play that then gets driven to Las Vegas and expands our database and our reach and our footprint. So we think that those projects are exceptionally profitable when you look at our overall cost of capital, and we would certainly continue to expect to pursue those in that way. If you look at Baltimore, we have 52% equity ownership in that project. The Ohio projects with Cincinnati just opened last night. I haven't seen the results in terms of the gaming, but I'm sure it was outstanding. And we'll have Thistledowns opening also from the Ohio joint venture in about 2 months. And those are great uses of our capital. When we look at the kind of core capital, we have a fixed maintenance budget that we try to allocate efficiently across the different markets, but that's really just to make sure that our properties retain their competitive nature, replace the carpets, replace things that break, of course, but also make sure that we're providing a great product to the customer. And I think the area that we vary is that kind of midrange capital. When you look at it's kind of a hybrid between the pure maintenance capital and then the pure growth expansion-related capital. And that's the piece that year-over-year, we can change and we can influence based on where we think our results are going, where we think the economy is going and truly, where we think our cost of capital is at that point. When we came out with guidance for this year, we said our midpoint was roughly $1.2 billion, of that $550 million was associated with the projects specifically that I've talked about. And the balance is that combination of pure maintenance and then the maintenance that's going to hopefully grow the business as well. And so as we move throughout the year, if we're not meeting our operating plan, we'd certainly curtail that capital. And if we are exceeding the operating plan, then we'd expect to increase it. So we're able to vary that, call it, $400 million to $500 million quite easily just by watching it and controlling it relative to our CapEx or to our operating plans.

Unknown Analyst

Understood. And you touched on a little bit there in terms of your view of the direction of the macro climate, et cetera. When you think about regionally and obviously, you guys have a wide breadth across the United States including Las Vegas and obviously a lot of customer touch points with rewards, et cetera. But when you think about the direction of your customer and obviously, regional gaming results has not been great the last few months, and one can make a pretty reasonable argument that's probably going to continue to face some pressures here with delayed taxes and increased payroll tax, and the weather. What is your overall, I guess, view on the health of your regional customer? And do you feel like some of the things that are impacting them today are more temporary that need to be worked through? Or do you think there is kind of a longer lag time until that customer starts to feel a little better?

Eric Hession

Yes. It's a great question. I think from our standpoint, we put together a plan that's not reliant on a macroeconomic recovery. We have put in place controllable development projects that will come in line the next couple of years that will really drive our EBITDA higher. We've put in place cost control mechanisms that in a flattish economy, which is similar to what we've seen and what we would expect from our baseline, we'll be able to continue to improve our results. But ultimately, swings in the macro-economy could certainly have a disproportionate effect in our fortunes. The historical correlation between what used to be just simplistic GDP and gaming, and then it was more modified to be some kind of combination of consumer net worth and gaming, don't seem to hold as well as they have in the past. And I can't give you a good answer as to why. I think part of it is that gaming is truly a discretionary spend and it's also a spend that you'd undertake if you feel generally confident about your financial position. And so I think there's a psychological effect also that says that if my house is worth money and I have equity in it, if my job is secure, if my neighbor has a job, then I would go and purchase the entertainment that we're offering. And I think what's happening is that yes, the consumer net worth has improved. But I still don't think there's that feeling that people recognize that they have discretionary income. And we're optimistic that will change, but I think it's a question of when, and that's really -- it's unknown to everybody I think at this point.

Unknown Analyst

And then in terms of if we continue to kind of slug along in the pattern that we have been, you guys, when you look at kind of your regions, do you feel like there's opportunities in each that are somewhat unique on the margin to kind of be able to stabilize and/or even grow EBITDA in a flat environment?

Eric Hession

Yes, absolutely. We're continuing -- we continually attempt to improve all areas of our operations, and all that comes down to trying to either provide better service for the customer, provide a better operating environment and to do it more efficiently. And a lot of items that we put in place initially in the recession in 2009 and '10 were extremely effective. We reduced our headcount very significantly. I think what you'll find now is that the activities that we're taking in terms of cost control are no longer -- certainly, the low hanging fruit is gone and they all involved some change to way that we do business, or some change to the way that we process things or think about the way we operate. So one of the activities that we undertook last year was really a very large centralization of a lot of activities. That is largely complete. We're still undertaking some of the areas. But that's starting to come through in terms of the efficiencies that we're able to drive from just a corporate management perspective. I think when you take a step back and you look at the real opportunities, there are lot of opportunities in how we purchase. There are a lot of opportunities to continue to work on how efficient we are in our spend, notably the capital spend, for example, we can make sure that we're allocating that appropriately. But even further, making sure that, that capital dollar that we spend is getting as much as it can, and a lot of that comes down to purchasing as well. There are a number of things that we can still do, and I think a good evidence of that is if you look at our Atlantic City operations, Atlantic City is certainly a challenged market, there's no question. The gaming revenues have been down for now 5 years in a row. But if you look at the third quarter, we grew EBITDA in Atlantic City. The fourth quarter, unfortunately, had the storm. But if you make the adjustment, you'd see growth there as well. And that's not due to changes in the revenue dynamic, it's all due to cost controls. And I think if you look at it, there's a dramatic change in the cost per day to run our businesses in Atlantic City. We're still focusing on that, and have no doubt that we'll continue to be able to pull expense out of the business. The challenges that it gets harder and harder as we go, so certainly at some point, we do need to have revenues return.

Unknown Analyst

So while we're in Atlantic City, obviously, the online gaming legislation now out there signed. What, in terms of -- and I know Mr. Loveman had made some comments recently about his view of the timing, with respect to the state publicly stated stance of when the first steps will be taken, and when an operator with some knowledge of how these things work, thinks that the process could be done, what is kind of your ballpark estimation of when you'll start to see the first revenue dollars from the online issues in New Jersey?

Eric Hession

Yes, it's unclear, right? They just legalized it. I think the State' guidance is great. By all means, it would be wonderful to be opened by the end of the year. And there are number of approaches that the State can take. I do have to say that they have been remarkably quick in all of the, let's say, regulatory and regulation changes that have been put in place in the last 2 or 3 years since Christie has been in office, so it's certainly possible to get done what they'd like. There are a couple of different approaches. They could use the framework that's been set up by Nevada, because Nevada's been working on it for about 1.5 years and they're ready to start dealing cards later in the year, and port that over, make some modifications, and I think that would be the most efficient way to do it. If they scrap the Nevada idea and just start from -- with a clean slate, then I think it's going to take a bit longer. It would be great if they move rapidly and they were able to license everybody and license the code and move forward quickly. But I think what Gary was giving was an estimate of what a normal legislative process would take in terms of being able to get all the licensing and the requirements done.

Unknown Analyst

And then in terms of -- obviously, everybody has kind of their estimates and ballpark estimates, when you guys think about the difference between the size of the market for poker and the, I guess, added benefit that you'll have in the State of New Jersey for being able to offer other content, do you feel like -- clearly, the poker side is the bigger opportunity, but can you kind of ballpark how you view the size of each market? In the event that it’s New Jersey and ring-fenced New Jersey without kind of the cross-state pollination?

Eric Hession

Yes, sure. I think the way we generally thought about the poker market, as we've said, that it's a $5 billion to $6 billion from the United States as a whole. And then you can make adjustments from there based on the population that you're talking about. So the New Jersey population as a percentage of the United States is X. That would imply just on a stand-alone basis. They would be a certain percentage of that estimate. However, they are wealthier than average state. They also have a number of casinos, including both the casinos in Philadelphia and in Atlantic City, so they are accustomed to participating in gaming-related activities. So I think the participation rate would be higher and they'd spend more because they're wealthier. The real question's going to be, how much extra revenue is generated by the addition of the non-poker games, such as the slot machines and the bingo and the table games. And I think when you look overseas, you see that it's really 2 different groups of players. So there's poker players and then there's the other players that play the other types of the online game. And we haven't really provided what we think the estimate is on a per person basis or per headcount basis that would be participating in our product, but it would certainly be larger because it's a totally new audience that would otherwise not be necessarily attractive to the product.

Unknown Analyst

If anybody does have any questions, just feel free to raise your hand. If -- obviously, Ohio, we've had a little bit longer experience with Cleveland, Cincinnati, as you mentioned last night. Has that experience in general in that state surprised you in any way, good or bad? Or has that been pretty much according to plan based or relative to the other experiences that you've had opening up properties in states that have recently legalized?

Eric Hession

Yes. Again, the Cleveland results are interesting. We've been open almost a year now, it's getting close to annualizing the opening. And the table games business has been exceptionally strong, and the slot business has been good but not quite where we'd hoped it would be. And I think the rationale for that is that the market can certainly support the casino and all the slots and all the gaming that's going on in the city. But the population base doesn't typically go downtown and participate in gaming activities, like they may in some other cities. And so what we've done is gear our marketing towards that. There are a lot of bars and other restaurants and activities that are being built around the casino. We've tried to make it as light. And in terms of safety, making sure that there are -- police presence is very visible. And so that they -- the parking lot is lit and the way to get to the casinos is lit. Not that we've had incidents, but just to make sure that people feel safe and they don't necessarily use that as a reason to not make a trip down on a Friday night or a Wednesday night or whenever they want to come down. I think what we'll find is Cincinnati has a different dynamic. That property was a greenfield build, although it's downtown, it's right on the highway. The market already has casinos that serve it, so it's an established market. And quite frankly to get to the casinos, you have to drive by our casino, which we know is a big advantage from a location perspective plus it will be new, and the others will be 5 or 10 years old. So I think in that sense, the 2 markets will be different. And then of course, the third project we're going to open at Thistledown, which we also believe will be a good project. It won't be a great project like the others. I think the one thing that we didn't count on was the 800 or 900 Internet café illegal gaming operations that are surrounding our property, and that takes a sizable chunk of the gaming spend. We'd assumed that the state would not allow untaxed, unregulated illegal operators, and they have. So hopefully that legislation will get cleaned up or at least they'll enforce the law and then will be able to make sure that we can pay the taxes to the state that their due.

Unknown Analyst

And is that your -- when you look at the way the slot market has matured and clearly, it still is relatively early stages, but when you try and look at, obviously, the table game dynamic, relative to other places and the way the slots have come around and the spend on those, do you kind of feel like the one thing that's not linear when you benchmark it against other states, is that Internet café issue? And is that where a lot of those slot dollars do you believe are ending up?

Eric Hession

It's hard to say. From your research that there's generally a percentage of GDP that's spent on gaming or entertainment-related activities. And certainly, that would consume some of it. The question then is, is that consuming enough to really impact the overall demand that we're seeing. I'd hesitate to say that it's all of it because I do think that there is something to be said that in a city that doesn't normally have the downtown view the center of the activity, to change that dynamic where somebody in the suburbs says, "Hey, what do you want to do? Let's go downtown." That needs to take time to change that. And they have to try it, recognize that it's a good activity, recognize that it's fun and then elect to do it more frequently. And so I think that's contributing to it as well. But there's no question whenever you have a competition in the sense that there's a spend of the gaming-related activity that's not available for us to pursue, that certainly impacts it.

Unknown Analyst

With respect to competition, and not just there, but in some of your other markets, obviously, opening in Cincinnati, I'm sure you've noticed, tweaks in some of the promotional activity in the surrounding markets. But on a broader base and given the kind of climate that we're in today with the rising gas prices and other consumer discretionary pressures, are you seeing your competitors kind of take the foot off the gas with respect to promotions, or have people have been a little bit more aggressive to kind of trying to sneak in that incremental share?

Eric Hession

I would say that it's been very consistent. And last year, the markets, I believe, performed exceptionally well from a competitive dynamic perspective. So we had very few marketing battles. Most operators have been restrained in their use of marketing tactics. Some have been very creative, which I think is great because it really can differentiate the products, and I think that's good. Most aren't just going out and throwing free play or giving away tons of buffets and that type of thing. So I don't think there's really been any change. I think there's no indication that, that would change. And so I think from the last 1 year to 1.5 years, it's been relatively stable and we're quite pleased with the marketing dynamic that's out there.

Unknown Analyst

You have [ph] heard in the October [indiscernible] that certain fourth quarter [ph] and [indiscernible]

Making the discount versus allocating the capital with these sort of growth ventures.

Eric Hession

Yes, sure. We did purchase $165 million of the propco mortgage at a discount during the fourth quarter. We thought that at the time, that was a good use of our capital. And as I mentioned earlier, we constantly try to allocate between the different opportunities. The transaction that we did 3 to 4 weeks ago with respect to issuing the $1.5 billion bond and repurchasing the term loan with the amendment certainly gives us a lot of flexibility from a cash perspective. And the question will be, "How do we choose to allocate that?" And as I mentioned we kind of walk through all the different options, which are to continue to pursue development activities, continue to reinvest in our business, identify new projects to pursue, repurchase debt or simply hold the cash and use it for option value to pursue something that we haven't identified yet. And so when I think about our cash position, that's the thought process we take. So in terms of giving you a direction, I can't really tell you where we're going to go or what we're going to pursue with the cash. And then when we do decide to buy back debt, which piece -- we purchased some from CEOC in the past, we've also repurchased mortgage mezzanine, et cetera. So it really just depends on the particular market where we think the business is going and then what the other opportunities are for us.

Unknown Analyst

[indiscernible] at the site, but I'm just wondering if in your opinion, if you believe it's truly feasible for the State of Massachusetts to have 3 resort casinos, or is it just going to be diluted?

Eric Hession

Well, I would agree that I think we have the best site, so to set that record. But I think the way the State's done it where they're having 3 casinos there different parts of the State, and they're all 4 different levels of investment, I don't think that it's going to be overly saturated. If you look at the Boston, in particular in the market that we're interested in, the market is generally served by Connecticut. And to some degree, some of the others. I think that, of course, bringing the revenues in State will be great for the State itself, but I also think that this is one of the largest markets in the United States that's not currently served by a casino that's close to the population base. So we're very excited about the particular market. I also think that the property in the West and then the Southern one are also in areas that are generally underserved. So I don't think there's a proliferation of gaming in terms of options available to people right now. I think you have to drive considerable distance. And so I don't think 3 casinos of the scale that people are talking about are certainly going to create a surplus of capacity. As you mentioned, I think from our perspective, we believe we do have the best site, we think we have the best plan. We believe that it would maximize the revenues of the state, as well as generate the most excitement for the population base, so we're very optimistic. And we'd expect to progress here albeit a little slowly towards getting the license and be able to complete the construction.

Unknown Analyst

[indiscernible] and then possible [indiscernible]

Eric Hession

Sure. There are definitely -- the latter question I'll address in a second. But to begin, the real question is, is it going to be a federal legislated bill or state-by-state? And if it's not federal, which it seems like that's the more challenging option, we would still hope that you can get federal legislation. But we're, of course, seeing more activity on the state-by-state level. If you look at the way the bills are drafted, they have all been done in such a way that the land-based operators have access to the licenses and the authorization to do the online gaming. From our perspective, that certainly benefits us given our broad reach and our participation in a number of the markets. With the 3 that have passed so far, we're not in Delaware, but we're certainly, of course, in New Jersey and Nevada. Some of the others that have been mentioned, we do participate in those states, so we believe that that's certainly a positive for the existing operators. The majority of the legislation, with the exception of New Jersey has been poker only. And when you look at the poker dynamic and the customers that it targets, it's generally younger and it's skewed male. So it's 25 to 40-year-old males tend to be the poker players. That customer we have found, from a poker standpoint, we believe would be very accretive to the land-based operations. And the reason is, because a customer would be able to go online, play poker, earn credits or earn entries into a land-based tournament and then be able to go to the casino, play in that land-based tournament and they might play craps or blackjack or some other game while they're there, but the primary benefit would be to them to come to the tournament. And from an example perspective, if you look at the World Series of Poker that's held at the Rio each year, that's a good example of how the online customers do flock to the land-based tournaments to participate in them prior to when the offline -- the Internet gaming was outlawed, the #1 prize to -- for any online operator was to give a seat at the World Series of Poker. And I would expect that would still be the case for the online when it's legalized in Nevada and New Jersey and so forth. Now the question is, when it comes to expanding it to slot machines and craps and blackjack and it's beyond poker, then the question, would there be some cannibalization? And I think then you're going to get back to that question of how much disposable income is available to a particular customer, and do they spend it online or do they spend it in the land-based property? And I think what will happen is the land-based properties will become much more geared towards the entertainment, towards the excitement, towards the activity that you can get in the social dynamic versus the online, which will have much less social. It will still have a social component from being able to message and communicate, but it won't be as directly related.

Unknown Analyst

What's going on in the opco and when [ph] do we see the upgrade culminated [ph] through [indiscernible] there? Do you feel like with new [indiscernible] in the opco, and how [indiscernible]?

Eric Hession

Yes. I can't comment on the CDS rates because I don't necessarily track them. But the venture partners deal is the way that we have identified to bring new equity into the company as a whole. And what the approach will do with respect to the CEOC assets is that we have formed an independent committee at the board, which is the 3 independent members. They've hired their own law firm, they've hired their own bank and we don't have interaction other than to provide data in terms of their valuation approach. So they're going to value all the assets and determine the price. If the price is one that the sponsors accept in terms of them wishing to also contribute equity into the new venture, then we'll have a transaction. The reason why we haven't been able to disclose more is because of exactly that. We don't know if a price is going to be reached, we don't know what the value will be, we don't know how that will effectively work because it's really between these 2 parties. From a CEOC perspective, any of the assets and those we mentioned were the Baltimore equity, the Planet Hollywood equity and then a possibility to do a portion of the management fees associated with each, they'd be sold at the fair value that's determined by this group, but it would be sold for cash. So the cash will come in to the CEOC entity, and then it would be able to use for any of the activities associated with the specific venture. From the CIE question specifically, we have thought of that exact scenario, of course, and we're making sure that there's a relationship between CEOC and CIE, such that if the land-based property is required to operate, that CIE would then qualify. So as you know, CEOC owns all the brands, they own the total rewards, they own the majority of the land-based properties, so they'd certainly do a disservice to CIE, if CIE didn't have access to that benefit to be able to operate the properties. So we make sure that that's the case. And there are lot of options in terms of how to handle that. It just has to be predetermined and made sure that it's on an arm's length basis.

Unknown Analyst

Can you [indiscernible] in the total rewards in the land-based, [indiscernible] part of the upcoming payment that will be made [indiscernible] relationship ongoing [indiscernible]

Eric Hession

It would be ongoing. It's very similar to the CMBS structure where we have a management services agreement that consists of payments for the brand, it consists of reimbursement for corporate services, it consisted the total rewards program in terms of earning reward credits and redeeming them and how that's governed. So there really shouldn't be any change to that particular mechanism. And since that agreement is already in place, it would be very similar. But I just caution that at this point, it's still very preliminary. This is how I believe it's going to turn out. But there hasn't been a value, a determination, and there could be no deal if the prices isn't agreed upon.

Unknown Analyst

Eric, thank you very much for your time.

Eric Hession

Yes, thank you. Appreciate it.

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Source: Caesars Entertainment's Management Presents at DbAccess Consumer, Retail, Gaming & Lodging Conference (Transcript)

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