GM Execs Fill Up on the Taxpayer's Dime 51 comments
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General Motors Corp.'s (NYSE:GM) near implosion has been partly a result of its slowness to make fuel-efficient cars. Could the slowness to adapt to the market's demand for fuel-efficient autos be blamed on some 8,000 GM executives receiving free gas?
National Public Radio says that GM doles out around $12 million a year in free gas for its white-collar workforce. With GM receiving $13 billion in government bailout money and likely asking for more, is this bonus of sorts excessive? Should it go the way of the Hummer?
"I would be totally in favor of eliminating this benefit," Rob Kleinbaum, a global strategist for GM, told NPR. "More because it would drive everybody in the company to be much closer to the marketplace and so they kind of feel the same things their customers feel."
Kleinbaum argues that the perk "reinforces a corporate insularity for which GM has been criticized in the past." After all, GM did lose $30 billion last year and is expected to continue to bleed to death unless the government provides more aid. The automaker says its evaluating the program but it's likely it'll look at the issue as quickly as it decided to make more fuel efficient cars. - Gerald Magpily
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This article has 51 comments:
On Mar 27 06:15 PM babyray wrote:
> My company gives me a company car and a company credit card for gas.
> Its normal for upper management.
I have no idea who the author is, but whoever it is he has a small mind and, apparently, a lot of time on his hands. Believe me, this "free" gas is no bargain. Before I retired I drove a company car about 2,000 mile per month ON COMPANY BUSINESS. Plus paid the amounts in the post below.
If this is the best SA can come up with, they're in more trouble than GM. $200 billion to AIG, they're getting $ million bonuses and this moron is worried about gas. Unbelievable.
It's small minds like this that are filling up the internet and preventing rational discussion.
On Mar 27 07:25 PM One of 8000 GM wrote:
> This writer is an absolute idiot who couldn't spend 5 minutes to
> get any facts straight. The "free" gas costs $250 a month for some
> execs and $300 for others. Yes we evaluate the products and drive
> anything from an Aveo to a Suburban for...yes the same "free" $250
> or $300 per month (based on your level). Next our "free" gas comes
> with a mandatory requirement, that up until 6 months ago mandatorily
> required us to buy or lease a new vehicle every 24 months or lose
> our "free" vehicle with gas. Imagine the "free" depreciation. You
> too might ask one of the 8,000 executives as well and see how "free"
> things are. Better than nothing, that is for sure....but far from
> "free". I hope this reporter works for free, because that is exactly
> what he is worth.
On Mar 27 09:26 PM Hrworker wrote:
> Just another perk for the TOP HEAVY GM (non-productive) SALARY LABOR.
> They need to make DEEP cuts in that area. I bet GM could get rid
> of half of its current Salary workforce and not see any affect in
> production. Ross Perot told them back in the 80tys and all they did
> was buy him out to keep his mouth shut. Until GM makes these cuts
> it will go nowhere.
(Airforce-3, or 4, or 5 ahhh who knows)
On Mar 27 08:21 PM 303820 wrote:
> IS ANYONE BITCHING ABOUT SEN. SHELBY AND SEN CORKERS FREE GAS? PAYED
> FOR THE AMERICAN TAXPAYERS?
Actual "manufacturers" test vehicles are not PEP cars as some have stated above. They are "M" plated and are for testing only, no spouses or personal trips, a completely different deal. They should knock off the PEP cars, not the true test "M" plate vehicles. The PEP cars are mostly just commuter cars. The PEP drivers fill out an evaluation form that is often cursory at best. Some of the comments are laughable almost, you can tell a bunch of these people are pencil pushers that are clueless about vehicles. This has been a complete example of wretched excess for years, that quite frankly should have been eliminated long before some poor low level GM saps insurance benefits got cancelled.
let em eat cake
.
- Free food and drink at restaurants for employees [who pays for this?]
- Reduced or free airfares for airlines employees [who pays for this?]
- Discounts on computers and software for employees in IT [computer and software[ firms [who pays for this?]
- Discounts on retail goods for retail employees [who pays for this?]
- Reduced building material costs, appliance costs for contractors and home builders [who pays for this?]
- Reduced rates or free stays for employees of resorts and hotel chains [who pays for this?]
- Reduced rates for employees of wireless telephone services [who pays for this?]
-Free or reduced cost tickets/access to sporting events for professional athletes and their friends/family [who pays for this?]
- Free medicine and reduced costs of medical procedures for employees [including doctors] in the medical or dental field [who pays for this?]
Are the above just inefficiencies in our capitalistic system? Are they just the cost of doing business? Do they support improving the quality of services? Are they a reasonable substitute for reduced "market rate" compensation?
In the end, we all pay for the way the entire capitalistic system is organized. If one wants to purify the system of all non-cash compensation, it must be even handed across all industries as well as government.
On Mar 27 09:26 PM Hrworker wrote:
> Just another perk for the TOP HEAVY GM (non-productive) SALARY LABOR.
> They need to make DEEP cuts in that area. I bet GM could get rid
> of half of its current Salary workforce and not see any affect in
> production. Ross Perot told them back in the 80tys and all they did
> was buy him out to keep his mouth shut. Until GM makes these cuts
> it will go nowhere.
This perk is considered part of their annual compensation and is a standard throughout most industries. After watching all of the proceedings in Washington and the carping from those who look at what everyone else has, I am reminded of the goings on in the communist countries where "the people" decided who had too much and who should get it. Have we arrived at that point now, or are we still the America that rewards those who succeed after putting forth the effort to get an education and work themselves up the corp ladder. These folks do not work an eight hour day. They often arrive at work before 6AM and work well into the evening when everyone else is home watching sports. What we do not need is more bloggers searching through every company's business, pulling little nuggets out of context, without explaining the whole story, just to get published and unduly raise the ire of readers. Let's get back to being part of the solution, rather than slinging mud in every direction to see if something sticks.
On Mar 27 10:20 PM observer1 wrote:
> The GM 8th levels and unclassified executives get a vehicle to use
> for "free", yes they pay imputed income for the use of the vehicle,
> but it is a GREAT deal. Most of the use is commuting, not company
> trips or anything else but family use. Any argument to that is baloney.
> Their spouse can use the vehicle as well. It is normally an Escalade,
> Suburban, or Cadillac (premium vehicle). They can use as much gas
> as needed, including filling up on friday night, driving to the cabin,
> and back, then filling up on monday morning. Free car insurance,
> free maintenance, tires, you name it. If the PEP car breaks, the
> company car office gets them a new one. When the vehicle has "miled
> out" , the executive can use this vehicle as their "drive and buy"
> (or lease, as it use to be) and this becomes their wifes car. They
> purchase or lease this vehicle at deep discount as PEP 1,2 or 3 depending
> on the miles. Not a bad deal. I am sure anyone would like that
> deal too, just not if the company is broke and others are being fired
> or losing their health care (so much for leadership).
>
> Actual "manufacturers" test vehicles are not PEP cars as some have
> stated above. They are "M" plated and are for testing only, no spouses
> or personal trips, a completely different deal. They should knock
> off the PEP cars, not the true test "M" plate vehicles. The PEP
> cars are mostly just commuter cars. The PEP drivers fill out an
> evaluation form that is often cursory at best. Some of the comments
> are laughable almost, you can tell a bunch of these people are pencil
> pushers that are clueless about vehicles. This has been a complete
> example of wretched excess for years, that quite frankly should have
> been eliminated long before some poor low level GM saps insurance
> benefits got cancelled.
>
> let em eat cake
> .
I worked for a company a few years that had too many "sacred cows" (before bailouts) that they wouldn't change. So for this business to survive they had to shut our plant down and move to Mexico rather than lay off non-productive personell and about half of salaried (read relatives) employees. Now I think they operate out of China. I hate for foreign companies to have American names.
Now to respond to the people above, One GM Execs or upper management are not needed to evaluate cars that likely not their job and has already been done in most cases before they are mass produced.
2. Govenerment Senators shouldnt really get free gass either however they so provide a much needed service unlike GM who wont even give you a discount for our childrens and our billions of tax dollars.
3. Im sorry to say, that if a company isnt managed well then its not profitable... so yes it is the managements fault. maybe not the little regional manager guy but a corporate manager yes, although it may not be intential it is their fault.
Throughout the article and in many of the comments - many have omitted the context of the "sacred cow" of retaining or increasing the availability of high-paying jobs in the USA.
The blogosphere should spend their "valuable" time & intellect discussing ways to increase the "sacred cow" of high paying jobs instead of becoming a "digital tabloid"
The decline or even demise of the American car makers is a sad, or even tragic story. Hopefully, and I am keeping my fingers crossed, that it is not a mirror of the American industrial might as a whole.
Gone are the days of the pioneering spirits of such giants as Alexander G. Bell, David Sarnoff, Thomas Edison, among others. Gone are also such political visionaries as George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, among many.
Instead, we have today a bunch of short-sighted money mongers, and image manipulators.
As I related elsewhere in SA, the forty-year decline is akin to the longest retreat of U.S. Military history in the Korean War, and there is no Incheon in sight. Instead, the government is now acting like Charles Cornwallis handing over the key to Gen. Washington, as the Big 3 to the Japanese.
Teutonic
GM (buick) is currently number one
if you actually drove a GM car/truck you would not be complaining about milage as they have a full ine-up of fule efficient vehicles
reliability, i currently own a 95 Fleetwood, 84 Impala, 2000 silverado, 2005 Malibu, 2007 Taurus ( sorry but it was a good deal) still running low maint.
former GM Salesman, (demo cars) seems like the customers get a better deal than we could get on a new car with only 4000 miles, and warranty starts at purchased milage.
ofcourse we got lower commission than others but driving what you sale helped us to see the value.
neighbors see them and they have to have it too (sale cha-ching)
district saleperson drove throughout 4 states in a escalade so what,i would not to be doing that in a civic/aveo/focus/corol... for any paycheck.
if you are not a stock holder then your opinion is not a vote. bought there stock when most dummys could not see that $1.55 ( about 5% of 2 years ago over 100% return this week) they have ,germany,england,china... south am. korea,australia, are concerned about jobs and offering loans, get off this site for real info
GM has become such a Sucking Hole that all Americans are filling that Hole.
The sooer GM files for Chapter 11 the better.
All those bloodsuckers and lazy AH must be eliminated.
Or you and your kids will never hear GM again in the future.
It's the younger generations that don't trust American cars,
we old folks can't help it. Get that in your head !!
1. Of the 8000, not all are managers. Many are higher level engineers who have been designing the cars for years. They are VERY qualified to evaluate the vehicles, and should be doing that. The only change I would recommend is that GM also buy competitor vehicles and make them drive those.
2. GM's problems, although many were self inflicted, were caused by the meltdown in the Banking industry. When was the last time anyone here paid CASH for a vehicle? No one does. When financing dried up last year, GM, Ford, and Chrysler could not sell vehicles (oh yeah, neither could Toyota, Honda, Nissan, ....). Because GM was in the midst of re-building and their new vehicles were not out yet, they were hit very hard. Remember, it takes a minimum of 2.5 years to get a new vehicle design and APPROVED by the US government for sale. Yeah, the Auto Industry is one of the most regulated industries in the US and spends billions just meeting government and California (the other US government) regulations.
3. I saw a map on CNN last week that shows where GM buys parts from. There was a dot in EVERY state. This is not a Michigan problem, it is national. Oh yeah, every state also has car dealerships and many have GM factories. If GM is forced into Chapter 11, what are the first things to go - the union contracts and the dealership agreements. Next are the supplier agreements - although the suppliers already make very little money and will also go into bankruptcy if this happens.
So for all those bashing GM, go see your doctor. You obviously have cranial-rectal inversion syndrome. This is curable with a little education and research.
You sir are full of half truths. sounds like you overheard someone talking and now you just take the ball and run with it.
How can it be free if they pay imputed income? ($250/month)
They must absolutely buy or lease a new vehicle every 2 years, and yes it can be a PEP car they were issued if not tagged by an employee by the end of the assignment. Spouces are only permited to drive in extreme emergency.
The local CVO center has 74 drivers on record with 56 driving Cobalts, or G5s Not Cadilacs, Not Buicks, Not Hummers.
Most vehicles are tagged for employee sale once the PEP driver is switched out. The remaining untagged vehicles go to the Auction.
To their credit GM has much higher integrity values than most companies.
You just keep grinding that axe.
On Mar 27 10:20 PM observer1 wrote:
> The GM 8th levels and unclassified executives get a vehicle to use
> for "free", yes they pay imputed income for the use of the vehicle,
> but it is a GREAT deal. Most of the use is commuting, not company
> trips or anything else but family use. Any argument to that is baloney.
> Their spouse can use the vehicle as well. It is normally an Escalade,
> Suburban, or Cadillac (premium vehicle). They can use as much gas
> as needed, including filling up on friday night, driving to the cabin,
> and back, then filling up on monday morning. Free car insurance,
> free maintenance, tires, you name it. If the PEP car breaks, the
> company car office gets them a new one. When the vehicle has "miled
> out" , the executive can use this vehicle as their "drive and buy"
> (or lease, as it use to be) and this becomes their wifes car. They
> purchase or lease this vehicle at deep discount as PEP 1,2 or 3 depending
> on the miles. Not a bad deal. I am sure anyone would like that deal
> too, just not if the company is broke and others are being fired
> or losing their health care (so much for leadership).
>
> Actual "manufacturers" test vehicles are not PEP cars as some have
> stated above. They are "M" plated and are for testing only, no spouses
> or personal trips, a completely different deal. They should knock
> off the PEP cars, not the true test "M" plate vehicles. The PEP cars
> are mostly just commuter cars. The PEP drivers fill out an evaluation
> form that is often cursory at best. Some of the comments are laughable
> almost, you can tell a bunch of these people are pencil pushers that
> are clueless about vehicles. This has been a complete example of
> wretched excess for years, that quite frankly should have been eliminated
> long before some poor low level GM saps insurance benefits got cancelled.
>
>
> let em eat cake
> .
$250 a month does not come close to cover the costs of a $55K Suburban (or even a lesser car), insurance, gasoline, maintenance, free use of a loaner car if needed, car wash. In fact, that probably just about covers gas and insurance (especially at $4 a gallon this past year). Obviously you disagree. Not a half truth however. Perhaps you should reconsider your own thoughts on this. Or you can continue to name call.
You will find this out when you retire. A comparable large SUV, gas, insurance, maintenance, etc. over $1000 month with a 48 month loan at 0%, $100/month insurance, $75/$100 week gas.
Even a mid size is a good deal at this price. .
PEP fleet may be stocked with more cars than trucks, if so, that is a recent occurence. I am guessing that the majority of vehicles are not economy cars, come on. Anybody who is anybody at GM is not driving a Cobalt. A good deal for the big shots or nobody would be defending the program.
Buying a PEP car every two years is not a hardship for an executive, many common folks buy retail every 2-3 years, so that is a non issue to me.
I didnt hear anyone mention the other folks that have lost their jobs or benefits while others within GM continue on like nothing has changed. Symbolic gestures mean something as a leader.
As for residuals, they are not so hot. I am sure you know how leasing works, and GMAC/GM is out of leasing because of the mis-steps over residuals the last few years.
.
On Mar 28 04:17 PM reality chk wrote:
> to Observer 1
>
> You sir are full of half truths. sounds like you overheard someone
> talking and now you just take the ball and run with it.
> How can it be free if they pay imputed income? ($250/month)
> They must absolutely buy or lease a new vehicle every 2 years, and
> yes it can be a PEP car they were issued if not tagged by an employee
> by the end of the assignment. Spouces are only permited to drive
> in extreme emergency.
> The local CVO center has 74 drivers on record with 56 driving Cobalts,
> or G5s Not Cadilacs, Not Buicks, Not Hummers.
> Most vehicles are tagged for employee sale once the PEP driver is
> switched out. The remaining untagged vehicles go to the Auction.
>
> To their credit GM has much higher integrity values than most companies.
>
>
> You just keep grinding that axe.
On Mar 28 01:48 PM Deweyp wrote:
> If you do the math, $300 a month that each driver pays, times 12
> months a year, times 8000 people, amounts to $28.8 million. Not exactly
> free when the author says GM pays $12 million for gas!
The other comments are your opinion. I dont disagree with some of them, but the wild card here is asking for money, like AIG. Opens pandoras box for intervention, not much of it good.
On Mar 28 08:51 AM Deweyp wrote:
> You come across as very well informed, but there are a few flaws.
> Spouses are not supposed to drive the cars, only in emergencies.
> Violations cost the driver the the use of the car. Spouses are required
> to buy and drive a vehicle no more than 24 months old. This is true
> for every licensed driver in the family. The employees at the level
> qualified to drive these cars are usually on 24 hour call .
> This perk is considered part of their annual compensation and is
> a standard throughout most industries. After watching all of the
> proceedings in Washington and the carping from those who look at
> what everyone else has, I am reminded of the goings on in the communist
> countries where "the people" decided who had too much and who should
> get it. Have we arrived at that point now, or are we still the America
> that rewards those who succeed after putting forth the effort to
> get an education and work themselves up the corp ladder. These folks
> do not work an eight hour day. They often arrive at work before 6AM
> and work well into the evening when everyone else is home watching
> sports. What we do not need is more bloggers searching through every
> company's business, pulling little nuggets out of context, without
> explaining the whole story, just to get published and unduly raise
> the ire of readers. Let's get back to being part of the solution,
> rather than slinging mud in every direction to see if something sticks.
>
Engineer or no engineer, 8000 is too many.
People like you keep defending this nonsense won't do any good.
If GM doesn't start from anew, it won't make it no matter how much taxpayers' money go to it.
A loser is a loser, period.
Just like products made in China, I am not boycotting GM and Chrysler and buying Ford products from now on.
On Mar 27 05:29 PM Mister Jimmy wrote:
> This article uses a classic technique...namely, telling part of a
> story. Gasoline is furnished for managers and executives driving
> company-owned vehicles used for product evaluation.
GM does have to start over - and they are. However, don't vilify the hard working engineers and middle managers who are changing GM (and yes, this change DID start before the current breakdown). People seem to forget that engineers, designers, and technicians - mostly non-union - design the products the UAW makes. Many of the 8000 are in this category. Can GM adjust this - yes, and they should. Suggestion - only people who have direct affect on the product should have these vehicles (engineers, manufacturing , purchasing, marketing, etc. - not finance, legal, administrative, etc.) Also, when the vehicles are done, they are sold to other employees for about what it costs GM to make the vehicle. So the argument that it costs GM a lot of money for this program is ridiculous. The benefit far outweighs the cost.
Lets focus on where the problem actually is - Wall Street - which DEMANDS monthly returns. I have seen companies (auto and more) miss projections by 1 cent and have their stock drop by 30-40% - IN ONE DAY! Where is the problem? GM and the others are driven by Wall Street to short term profits, and the managers do that. Up until 1 year ago, these profits were in trucks.
People talk about half truths earlier - look at the whole picture. Unlike the banks, the auto companies did nothing illegal or overly risky - they did what their owners wanted them to do - make money. Americans wanted trucks, and GM made them. Oh yes, so did Toyota (Tundra) and Honda (Ridgeline) and Nissan (Titan). Everyone realized the US market wanted these vehicles, and they made A LOT of money. The auto companies do not control oil prices. No one expected oil prices to jump as quickly as they did. No one expected the credit crunch. There is nothing in history that could have prepared the car companies for what happened in 2008. No expert in late 2007 could have predicted what happened. No one got it right. How can you blame this on the automotive companies when experts could not predict what happened as quickly as it did. Yes, some experts were predicting high oil prices, but not to double in a couple of months (predictions of $200/barrel only came AFTER the price hit about $125, not when it was $70). Others were predicting a recession, but not the Dow losing 50% of it's value. And for every negative prediction, there was a prediction from an expert just as credible that things were turning around.
I am not defending the auto companies for everything they did - they made some mistakes and admitted them. They were and are in the process of change. They have negotiated union contracts that reduce cost (look at the results from the 2007 contract negotiations). Can they (and their unions) do more? Yes, and they will have to. But to put these companies in the same light as John D. Rockefeller and Standard Oil of the nineteenth century is not accurate nor right - it is only propogating a stereotype that is no longer accurate in the 21st Century. Get your facts straight and the US will be better. Continue to twist facts to progress personal hatreds will not solve the problem - only cause anger and conflict.
Well said, Peter,
Look at Tesla, the all-electric car sponsored by Google founders. If mass produced and millions of American start buying and driving them, what next?
The Big3 had become huge bureaucracies and hot house of the entitlements with hot-shot MBA's calling the shots short-cutting engineers, circumventing fundamental technical principles. The horror stories of abuses I heard piled up taller than Mt. Everett. It is about time.
[Disclosure: No positions in GM and F]
Teutonic
On Mar 28 09:22 PM PeteK wrote:
> StraightCarTalk;
> Engineer or no engineer, 8000 is too many.
> People like you keep defending this nonsense won't do any good.<br/>If
> GM doesn't start from anew, it won't make it no matter how much taxpayers'
> money go to it.
> A loser is a loser, period.
>
These guys are going to be genuinely shocked, when many of them have to leave their somewhat sheltered environment and find that, for instance, a factory electrician in a typical paper, plastic, or steel plant does the same thing that an electrician in a GM plant does, and makes only 50% of the pay that they do at GM.
It's all cool, because while these UAW types rant, rave and insult on these forums, anything to avoid engaging in a somewhat rational exchange of thoughts, the fact is, I believe, that after the restructuring that GM carries out, many if not most of these same voices will be placed on the other side of the equation.
In order to be competitive and make something called a profit, GM is expected to close several plants and eliminate/terminate a few more 10's of thousands of employees. They are expected to submit their plan to our representatives within the next month.
When many of these spoiled and lavishly compensated former United Auto Workers have to go to the market place and get a job with a company that will "terminate" them in a New York minute the first time they spout off, they will learn real fast what the deal is in the real world. These guys are tragicomical.
Someone in an earlier post invoked John Galt. I would be interested to hear a UAW person's opinion of that character in Ayn Rand's book "Atlas Shrugged".
By the way, any time you guys want to actually thank us for bailing you out (actually your employer, General Motors) with several billion dollars of our hard earned money already thus far, please feel free to interrupt your insults long enough to do so.
BTW, a Prodigal Son is more precious than Gold, Luke 15:11-32.
On Mar 27 10:20 PM observer1 wrote:
> The GM 8th levels and unclassified executives get a vehicle to use
> for "free", yes they pay imputed income for the use of the vehicle,
> but it is a GREAT deal. Most of the use is commuting, not company
> trips or anything else but family use. Any argument to that is baloney.
> Their spouse can use the vehicle as well. It is normally an Escalade,
> Suburban, or Cadillac (premium vehicle). They can use as much gas
> as needed, including filling up on friday night, driving to the cabin,
> and back, then filling up on monday morning. Free car insurance,
> free maintenance, tires, you name it. If the PEP car breaks, the
> company car office gets them a new one. When the vehicle has "miled
> out" , the executive can use this vehicle as their "drive and buy"
> (or lease, as it use to be) and this becomes their wifes car. They
> purchase or lease this vehicle at deep discount as PEP 1,2 or 3 depending
> on the miles. Not a bad deal. I am sure anyone would like that deal
> too, just not if the company is broke and others are being fired
> or losing their health care (so much for leadership).
>
> Actual "manufacturers" test vehicles are not PEP cars as some have
> stated above. They are "M" plated and are for testing only, no spouses
> or personal trips, a completely different deal. They should knock
> off the PEP cars, not the true test "M" plate vehicles. The PEP cars
> are mostly just commuter cars. The PEP drivers fill out an evaluation
> form that is often cursory at best. Some of the comments are laughable
> almost, you can tell a bunch of these people are pencil pushers that
> are clueless about vehicles. This has been a complete example of
> wretched excess for years, that quite frankly should have been eliminated
> long before some poor low level GM saps insurance benefits got cancelled.
>
>
> let em eat cake
> .
On Mar 29 04:53 PM Kman58 wrote:
> GM is still giving perks to employees. I am not surprised. I believe
> that GM will be giving perks and excessive compensation to it's employees
> right up untill the point that the doors are closed.
>
> These guys are going to be genuinely shocked, when many of them have
> to leave their somewhat sheltered environment and find that, for
> instance, a factory electrician in a typical paper, plastic, or steel
> plant does the same thing that an electrician in a GM plant does,
> and makes only 50% of the pay that they do at GM.
>
> It's all cool, because while these UAW types rant, rave and insult
> on these forums, anything to avoid engaging in a somewhat rational
> exchange of thoughts, the fact is, I believe, that after the restructuring
> that GM carries out, many if not most of these same voices will be
> placed on the other side of the equation.
>
> In order to be competitive and make something called a profit, GM
> is expected to close several plants and eliminate/terminate a few
> more 10's of thousands of employees. They are expected to submit
> their plan to our representatives within the next month.
>
> When many of these spoiled and lavishly compensated former United
> Auto Workers have to go to the market place and get a job with a
> company that will "terminate" them in a New York minute the first
> time they spout off, they will learn real fast what the deal is in
> the real world. These guys are tragicomical.
>
> Someone in an earlier post invoked John Galt. I would be interested
> to hear a UAW person's opinion of that character in Ayn Rand's book
> "Atlas Shrugged".
>
> By the way, any time you guys want to actually thank us for bailing
> you out (actually your employer, General Motors) with several billion
> dollars of our hard earned money already thus far, please feel free
> to interrupt your insults long enough to do so.
Please understand that for the last 44 years I drove nothing but GM cars. All 3 generations of my family drove GM cars, one Ford only.
How can you say we twist the facts ?
Those under 40 year-olds don't give a damn about American cars because it disppointed them. I dare say, the Big 3 lost the next generation of clients. We old folks keep our GM old-faithfuls which are still running.
On Mar 29 04:53 PM Kman58 wrote:
> GM is still giving perks to employees. I am not surprised. I believe
> that GM will be giving perks and excessive compensation to it's employees
> right up untill the point that the doors are closed.
>
> These guys are going to be genuinely shocked, when many of them have
> to leave their somewhat sheltered environment and find that, for
> instance, a factory electrician in a typical paper, plastic, or steel
> plant does the same thing that an electrician in a GM plant does,
> and makes only 50% of the pay that they do at GM.
>
> It's all cool, because while these UAW types rant, rave and insult
> on these forums, anything to avoid engaging in a somewhat rational
> exchange of thoughts, the fact is, I believe, that after the restructuring
> that GM carries out, many if not most of these same voices will be
> placed on the other side of the equation.
>
> In order to be competitive and make something called a profit, GM
> is expected to close several plants and eliminate/terminate a few
> more 10's of thousands of employees. They are expected to submit
> their plan to our representatives within the next month.
>
> When many of these spoiled and lavishly compensated former United
> Auto Workers have to go to the market place and get a job with a
> company that will "terminate" them in a New York minute the first
> time they spout off, they will learn real fast what the deal is in
> the real world. These guys are tragicomical.
>
> Someone in an earlier post invoked John Galt. I would be interested
> to hear a UAW person's opinion of that character in Ayn Rand's book
> "Atlas Shrugged".
>
> By the way, any time you guys want to actually thank us for bailing
> you out (actually your employer, General Motors) with several billion
> dollars of our hard earned money already thus far, please feel free
> to interrupt your insults long enough to do so.
ROB KLEINBAUM, MANAGING DIRECTOR, RAK & CO, EX-GM EXEC
"If this is just sacrificing the CEO in some ritual way when nothing else changes then it will really mean nothing."
======================...
Nice Alpha - you allowed someone post an article citing this guy as a Global Strategist for GM ( I don't even know what that is) and he really works as a "Managing Director" for a company I haven't even heard of. No integrety......
not that it matters, but a point of clarification. You signed out a "pool vehicle", not the same program as the PEP program. Normally "miled out" PEP cars go into the lower level employee pool car fleet, at least the undesireable ones that are not drive and buys. The vehicle driving restrictions on lower level employees (which you mentioned you were) are much different from the PEP program. GM does not have the same level of trust in 7th level and lower employees that is does in 8th and unclassified. That is the reason you have to have a signed "vehicle pass" for a pool vehicle. that pass is signed by an 8th or unclassified. Unfair possibly, but true.
On Mar 29 08:45 PM slowdown wrote:
> Actually - they are PEP vehicles and anyone in the company - including
> hourly workers can "tag" and purchase them at a discount. So tell
> me - where is this any different then...let's say K-Mart or Walmart
> that gives their employees a discount on purchases or my niece that
> works for Coach (womens accessories) and gets a 65% discount? Yes...a
> manager can purchase one as a drive and buy to meet the 1 every 24
> requirement...they get the same discount that the hourly workers
> get on them. I'm not 8th or unclassified so I can only tell you that
> when I have gotten a company car to use for business and it required
> an overnight at my house, I had to sign a waiver saying that I would
> not allow any family members drive it and I wouldn't drive it for
> personal business unless absolutely necessary. I did once...to take
> my husband to the hospital. I can tell you that there are some that
> don't follow the rules....I'd say your spouse/family member is one
> of them.
On Mar 29 10:04 PM slowdown wrote:
> From Reuters:
> ROB KLEINBAUM, MANAGING DIRECTOR, RAK & CO, EX-GM EXEC
>
> "If this is just sacrificing the CEO in some ritual way when nothing
> else changes then it will really mean nothing."
> ======================...
>
> Nice Alpha - you allowed someone post an article citing this guy
> as a Global Strategist for GM ( I don't even know what that is) and
> he really works as a "Managing Director" for a company I haven't
> even heard of. No integrety......
you are right, when you randomly look at the forums or blogs from out of state newspapers on the subject of the Detroit 3 or wagoner. Almost universally, people hate the auto companies. its scary actually.
On Mar 29 09:25 PM PeteK wrote:
> StraightCarTalk;
> Please understand that for the last 44 years I drove nothing but
> GM cars. All 3 generations of my family drove GM cars, one Ford only.
>
> How can you say we twist the facts ?
> Those under 40 year-olds don't give a damn about American cars because
> it disppointed them. I dare say, the Big 3 lost the next generation
> of clients. We old folks keep our GM old-faithfuls which are still
> running.