market authors
selected for publication
Blue Coat Systems, Inc. (BCSI)
F4Q09 Earnings Call
June 2, 2009 5:00 pm ET
Executives
Jane Underwood - Investor Relations
Brian M. NeSmith - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director
Tyler Purvis - Senior Director of Finance
Analysts
Ryan Hutchinson - Lazard Capital Markets
Scott Zeller - Needham & Company
Jonathan Ruykhaver - ThinkEquity Partners
Rohit Chopra - Wedbush Morgan Securities
Daniel Ives - FBR Capital Markets
Alex Kurtz - Merriman Curhan Ford & Co.
Erik Suppiger - Signal Hill Group
Gabe Lowy - Noble Financial
Samuel Wilson - JMP Securities
Douglas Ireland - JMP Securities
Rob Owens - Pacific Crest Securities
Presentation
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by and welcome to the Blue Coat systems fiscal fourth quarter results conference call. (Operator Instructions) I would now like to turn the conference over to our host, Ms. Jane Underwood. Please go ahead, Madam.
Jane Underwood
Thank you. Good afternoon and thank you for joining us to discuss Blue Coat's financial results for the fourth quarter of fiscal year 2009. With me on today’s call are Brian NeSmith, our President and Chief Executive Officer, and Tyler Purvis, our Senior Director of Finance.
Before I turn the call over to Brian, let me remind you during the course of this call, we will make forward-looking statements about Blue Coat Systems Inc. and our acquisition of Packeteer Inc. These include statements regarding expectations concerning market growth and business opportunities, including levels of IT spending, expectations regarding future revenues, expenses, margins, profits, tax rates, and other financial metrics, success of our business strategy and changes in our business model and operations, and other matters impacting Blue Coat's financial outlook and future business. All statements other than statements of historical facts are statements that could be deemed forward-looking statements, including any statements of expectation or belief and any statements of assumptions underlying any of the foregoing.
Risks, uncertainties and assumptions include the risks that are described from time to time in reports filed by Blue Coat with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including but not limited to the risks described in Blue Coat's annual report on Form 10-K for the year ended April 30, 2008, and quarterly report on Form 10-Q for the quarter ended January 31, 2009. No assurances can be given that any of these events anticipated by the forward-looking statements will transpire or occur, of if any of them do what impact they will have on the results of operations or financial condition of Blue Coat.
Blue Coat assumes no obligation and does not intend to update these forward-looking statements except as required by applicable law.
Now I would like to turn the call over to Brian.
Brian M. NeSmith
Thanks, Jane. I am in New York City, sitting in a NASDAQ conference room right over Times Square. If the crowds that are any indication of the economy, the mood is actually good here, which is a little bit surprising to me. As for Blue Coat, as you can imagine, we’ve had a hectic few days.
Before I get started with our financial results, I would like to address the underlying reason why we delayed our Q4 earnings call scheduled for last Wednesday, May 27th. As you know, and we recognize revenue from stocking distributors on a sell-through basis and we require them to report shipments that have been made before we recognize the associated revenue. This is done on a point-of-sale or POS report. On the morning of May 27th, we discovered an error in an April point-of-sale report that we had earlier received from one of our European distributors. While the POS report stated that a customer product shipment was made on April 30th, we learned that the product actually shipped in the first week of May. This of course meant that the shipment did not constitute Q4 revenue and that we needed to make required adjustments to our financial statements.
While we believe this to be an isolated incident, learning of this on the morning of our Q4 announcement did not provide us enough time to conduct the necessary reviews, so we had to postpone our earnings announcement while we completed this review.
Over the past few days, our finance team performed an extended review of transactions reported on various distributors’ fourth quarter POS reports. No other errors were discovered.
The summary, the reversal of this transaction negatively impacted our fourth quarter net income on a non-GAAP basis by approximately $280,000. The results we report today reflect this adjustment.
Now let’s turn to our financial results for the fourth quarter. Net revenue for Q4 was $113.6 million, a 4% increase compared to net revenue of $109.6 million in the prior quarter. Excluding net revenue associated with the acquisition of Packeteer, net revenue for fiscal Q4 was $88.7 million, a 3% increase compared to net revenue of $86.4 million in the prior quarter. In fiscal 2009, net revenue was $444.7 million, a 46% increase compared to net revenue of $305.4 million for the fiscal year ended April 30th, 2008. Net revenue excluding revenue associated with Packeteer was $355.6 million, an increase of 16% year over year.
Product revenue for fiscal Q4 was $74.4 million, compared to $72.5 million in the prior quarter. Included in product revenue is revenue from Packet Shaper products, which was $14.9 million, compared to $14.2 million in fiscal Q3. It also included revenue from the Blue Coat Web Filter product, which was $6.5 million, compared to $6.8 million in the prior quarter.
In the fourth quarter, we recognized $39.2 million in service revenue, a $2.1 million increase over the prior quarter. Included in service revenue is $10 million related to former Packeteer product, primarily Packet Shaper, service, and renewals.
On a geographic basis, net revenue in North America was $50.3 million, representing approximately 44% of total revenue. Net revenue in EMEA and Latin America was $42.1 million, representing approximately 37% of total revenue, and net revenue in the Asia-Pacific region was $21.2 million, representing an approximately 19% of total revenue.
Gross margin on a non-GAAP basis increased to 75.3% in fiscal Q4 compared to 75.1% in the prior quarter. On a non-GAAP basis, operating expenses increased approximately $4.4 million to $73.2 million in the fourth quarter. The increase in operating expenses was primarily a result of higher commissions and an increase in headcount across all functional areas of the company.
On a non-GAAP basis, net income for the quarter was $8.4 million, or $0.19 per diluted share. Fully diluted share count for fiscal Q4 was approximately 43.6 million shares.
Turning to the balance sheet, we ended the quarter with cash, restricted cash and investments of approximately $115 million, representing a net positive cash flow of $3.2 million in the quarter, compared to $14 million in the prior quarter. The sequential decline in net positive cash flow was a result of particularly good linearity of bookings and billings in Q3 that resulted in higher cash collections in Q3, contrasted with more typical business linearity in Q4.
Operating cash flow in the fourth quarter was $4.8 million.
Now I would like to turn to my comments to what we are seeing in the market and some highlights from Q4, and discuss how we are currently viewing the business and realigning some of our resources.
Finally, I will conclude with our outlook for fiscal 2010 and guidance for fiscal Q1.
While the current environment is challenging, we are still seeing customers purchase our products to reduce costs, improve productivity, or create more secure networks. Our application delivery network, or ADN-- this I think many of you will see will become a popular three-letter acronym from Blue Coat -- this ADN vision brings us unprecedented levels of visibility, acceleration, and security into a single integrated solution.
About one year ago, we acquired Packeteer and I am pleased to note that we have achieved substantial benefits with added customers, added partners, and added products. During this fiscal year, we also delivered a new release of Proxy SG, a new proxy AV platform, and as well improved malware protection from our Web Pulse cloud service.
While IT budgets remain constrained and customers are generally buying only what they immediately need, we are finding that enterprises are proceeding with projects that deliver a compelling ROI and help drive business productivity while protecting users and critical network assets.
While we saw some signs of stabilization in Q4, the IT spending environment remains uncertain, with no clear sign of when spending will return to normal. Of our three major geographies, North America performed the strongest in the quarter while EMEA was soft. Asia-Pac was the region that was most challenging, especially in Australia and New Zealand. And I think worthy of a special note, Q4 was the first quarter in the last four quarters where we saw a slight improvement in our closure rates.
Given the ongoing economic headwinds in the global market place, I am proud of our team’s accomplishments and how Blue Coat has captured the leadership position in LAN optimization. In fiscal 2009, our customer base expanded by 1,840 customers, with the majority selecting Blue Coat to extend their WAN optimization footprint to the remote branch, offices, and users.
We believe this growth was fueled by Blue Coat's core value proposition, its application delivery network that provides customers with unmatched visibility, acceleration, and security.
When it comes to visibility, we can classify and prioritize over 600 applications with deep layer seven visibility to provide organizations with an accurate picture of network traffic. It remains true that most organizations have no clear picture of what is running on their networks. This visibility can help customers reduce costs and increase business productivity.
In [pure] WAN optimization, we win deals based on our ability to accelerate two key application areas -- secure web applications and video streaming. Our ADN solution accelerates both internally and externally controlled secure web applications and can cache HTPS encrypted objects while maintaining and enforcing an organization’s IT policies. Additionally, our appliances are used in many enterprise networks to accelerate both streaming and video-on-demand applications and can apply both object caching and protocol optimization to optimize the user experience and offload the network and servers.
In security, we win deals based on our fully integrated solution that supports our customer security policies and protects their networks from increasingly sophisticated web-based threats. Our security technologies enable IT managers to keep pace with the continuously evolving spyware, viruses, and malware, and they also provide proactive layers of defense.
Our approach to ADN with its best-in-class visibility, acceleration, and security capabilities, is unique. If imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, our competition has flattered us by adopting and following our ADN vision. They have partnered with other vendors and have acquired companies providing similar but less robust functionality in a piece-meal attempt to address ADN. It is important to note that these multi-vendor solutions are complex and costly to manage, as they require the customer to deploy multiple vendors and boxes. This approach also opens the door to a variety of performance related issues and corresponding finger-pointing. Compare this to Blue Coat's unique and tightly integrated ADN approach, which truly enables our customers to efficiently and cost-effectively optimize and secure the flow of information to distribute users across the extended enterprise.
With the one-year anniversary of the Packeteer acquisition upon us and the integration largely complete, we have been successful in realizing the cost synergies originally anticipated. Additionally, we have substantially expanded our reach by adding approximately 1,000 experienced networking distributors and resellers around the world.
It is worth noting that former Packeteer partners are now more actively reengaged in selling our Packet Shaper product now that the integration is largely behind us, and we have achieved strong success in cross-selling and driving further adoption of both Packet Shaper and Proxy SG appliances.
In the fourth quarter, the number of channel partners selling both our Packet Shaper and Proxy SG products increased by over 30% compared to Q3.
Overall, we have found that our partner community has been highly receptive to broadening their skill sets and offering a richer product portfolio to their customers. From a technology standpoint, Packet Shaper has strengthened our Proxy SG appliance family with its best-in-class application classification engine, rich quality of service capabilities, and traffic management features. These products when deployed together makes Blue Coat an even more strategic vendor to our customers.
Now turning to some product highlights for the fourth quarter, we continue to execute on our vision and strategy for the application delivery network across a number of key product areas. We strengthened our competitive position in the market by introducing version 5.4 of our SGOS operating software for the Proxy SG appliance family. This latest release is designed for fast installation for WAN optimization deployments and features an intelligent configuration wizard that enables set-up and configuration in under a minute.
In Q4 we also introduced our Proxy AV 210 appliance. This is a new low-cost product that enables enterprises to control bandwidth costs and efficiently utilize WAN resources for the delivery of business critical applications.
We view the growing adoption of Web 2.0 and other bandwidth intensive applications as a key growth driver for this product.
We continue to see cyber crime exploiting search engine results and popular websites by injecting links to hidden malware hosts to herd and trap users. Last quarter we introduced dynamic link analysis as part of our cloud-based web pulse community watch defense to detect these malware injections and protect our customers that use our Proxy SG and Proxy Client products.
Being cloud connected means that no download or patches are required and that as new threats are identified, protection is immediately available for the entire Blue Coat community, some 54 million users and growing.
In Q4, Blue Coat also continued to expand and gain new strategic partnership. Of note, we joined the Microsoft System Center Alliance. Through this alliance, we can enhance and support Microsoft System Center configuration manager 2007 and Microsoft Application Virtualization, both of which are part of the Microsoft Desktop Optimization Pack over the WAN to branch offices and over the Internet to remote workers.
Turning to some customer wins in the fourth quarter, in the U.S. the Department of Homeland Security deployed Proxy SG appliances for visibility, acceleration and security, in order to achieve granular management of Internet applications and content. In addition to optimizing the delivery of important content and applications, the Department has successfully reduced its bandwidth consumption by 55%.
In EMEA, we had impressive multi-million dollar wins this past quarter, including sales to [Barclays and to Mobility], the second-largest telecommunications company in the Kingdome of Saudi Arabia.
We recently have made two major changes that will have a positive impact in this new fiscal year. First, we are realigning our sales organization to reflect the different types of customers we sell to. Second, we are changing how we use distribution for product fulfillment by removing stocking rights from all of our distribution partners. Both of these changes should result in improved business efficiencies for us, as well as a better customer experience.
Let’s look at these changes. Previously, we have looked at our sales coverage in terms of the number of sales teams. As a reminder, a sales team consisted of a quota carrying sales rep, a sales engineer, and part of an inside sales person. As of today, viewing our sales force under the old structure, we had 147 sales teams. However, we believe that the sales team model could be improve and as of May 1st, we realigned our sales organization to better serve our diverse customer base and to drive increased productivity.
Our new sales model includes account and territory managers that are focused on strategic large enterprise and mid-tier market customers. We are upgrading the quality and experience of our sales reps, especially of those that are focused on strategic and large accounts. We have hired a number of high caliber professionals from the enterprise and networking industries where solution sales and large enterprise customers predominate. We are also signing our SEs to accounts based on their skill sets and not on a one-to-one pairing with our sales reps, which will better leverage our SEs’ core competencies. We are also using channel account managers to work with our channel partners. This should result in improved coverage for those partners which should equate to greater no-touch revenue from our channel.
As part of this new structure, we have adjusted our sales incentive plan across the sales organization. All of these changes should allow our sales organizations to better capitalize on opportunities in the large enterprise and mid-tier markets where we are particularly well-positioned and ultimately drive greater product revenue growth for the company. We believe we will also see an improvement in sales costs as a percentage of revenue.
As a result of the realignment to our sales organization, we will no longer provide a sales team metric as we will no longer have sales teams as we have traditionally understood. Going forward, we would like to provide better transparency into our business. Often we get asked questions about the split between our WAN optimization and security revenue. Here’s how we view it.
We look at our pure visibility business as Packet Shaper, which contributed $15 million in product revenue in Q4, and our peer security business as Blue Coat Web Filter, which contributed $6.5 million in product revenue in Q4. Based on our analysis of deals, we view the remaining $53 million as our ADN product revenue. We believe this revenue is driven by our customers’ WAN optimization needs plus their need for at least one or both of our key differentiators visibility of security.
Over the last year, Blue Coat has been in the planning stages of developing a new fulfillment model that will eliminate the need for distributors worldwide to stock our inventory. We will be phasing in this new fulfillment model over the next couple of quarters, which will allow us to ship product to customers directly. We believe this new fulfillment model will provide a better customer experience, as well as improve some business efficiencies. It will also eliminate the need for deferred revenue accounting associated with distributor shipments and the need for distributor point-of-sale reporting.
Looking ahead to 2010, I have established three key initiatives for our team. First, we are committed to improving our bottom line performance, increasing our non-GAAP operating profitability. As a result, we will be managing operating expense growth with the growth of our top line. In the past, we have invested heavily in front of our achievement of revenue as we transition our products to the different primary markets that we currently serve.
Today, we are the leader in WAN optimization and secure [web gate] markets with products that are differentiated and well-positioned. Now is the time to drive better leverage in our business model.
Second, we will continue to move forward with our ADN strategy. In fiscal 2010, we will focus our solution roadmap on advancing the integration of the visibility, acceleration, and security technologies at the heart of our application delivery network strategy. We believe ADN competitively differentiates Blue Coat by providing greater value to our customers in an integrated manner throughout our product lines. And third, we will continue to invest in our global advertising campaign and thought leadership program surrounding our ADN vision and strategy to establish brand awareness higher in the value chain. Underlying our marketing investments will be a host of sales and channel enablement programs and promotions.
Now turning to our guidance for the first quarter of fiscal 2010 -- we currently anticipate net revenue in the range of $114 million to $119 million. On a non-GAAP basis, EPS is expected to be between $0.20 and $0.25 per diluted share, which assumes a diluted share count of approximately $44.5 million. For planning purposes, we are using a 30% tax rate for fiscal 2010.
With that, I would now like to turn the call over to Jane.
Jane Underwood
Thank you, Brian, and that concludes today’s prepared remarks. Greg, we would now like to open up the call for analyst questions.
Question-and-Answer Session
Operator
(Operator Instructions) First we go to the line of Ryan Hutchinson with Lazard Capital Markets. Please go ahead.
Ryan Hutchinson - Lazard Capital Markets
You gave some color on the bottom line as it relates to the rev rec. Could you just provide what the impact was to the top line?
Brian M. NeSmith
I’ll actually ask Tyler. I don’t think it was that significant but Tyler, can you actually expand on that?
Tyler Purvis
Top-line impact was $550,000.
Ryan Hutchinson - Lazard Capital Markets
Okay, great. And in the confidence level moving forward here that this is not going to string into a series of events, I know you touched on it in the call but pretty extensive over the weekend and --
Brian M. NeSmith
Yeah, we thought that morning, as when these things typically happen, we believe it was an isolated incident. The problem you have is that when something like that occurs, you need to go through a fairly exhaustive review of a lot of things and we didn’t find any other errors, so it’s I think an isolated incident. I don’t expect a repeat of that but because it’s an isolated incident, you can’t predict exactly when it’s going to happen but I don’t see any indication of any systemic problem or behavior issues.
Ryan Hutchinson - Lazard Capital Markets
Okay, and then one follow-up -- you touched on it as well. I mean, it seems like you’ve got a lot of initiatives here in the new fiscal year but there was an 8-K filing talking about your profit sharing plan and in it you outline the payments that could be made under the plan for the fiscal quarters in which the operating profit exceeded 15%, so I’m just trying to understand how we should be thinking about that. It seems like there’s some discipline here on the operating margin front and when I look at and tie that to the guidance and the operating expenses, assuming sort of at the midpoint, it does imply that OpEx is going to be flat to down, so I just want to get your view on how you are looking at that for the specific give quarter, upcoming quarter as well as the remainder of the fiscal year, and that’s it for me, thanks.
Brian M. NeSmith
Yeah, I don’t -- the guidance I think from when you look at the EPS guidance and you work backwards to that piece, I think it’s flat to -- I would have said operating expenses as a percent of total, probably flat to slightly up in that picture. I think the one thing that’s worth noting, that’s obviously the guidance for the next quarter. What we were trying to highlight for the fiscal year is that we as a company have struggled through multiple market product transitions and in each phase of those growths, it sometimes takes several years to work your way through that and what we are highlighting is that we think we are in a very strong competitive position in both of the main markets that we plan and we are at a point that we think we can achieve better operating leverage as we go forward, and that thematically is clearly going to be true I think as we go through this fiscal year.
Ryan Hutchinson - Lazard Capital Markets
Okay, great.
Operator
Next we turn to the line of Scott Zeller with Needham & Company.
Scott Zeller - Needham & Company
Thanks. I want to ask about the rev rec issue. Could you tell us when you did your investigation, did you look at the transactions for the single distributor involved, or did you look at other distributors? And what was the timeframe that you investigated? Was it only the current just completed quarter or did you go further back?
Brian M. NeSmith
I’ll ask Tyler to expand upon that -- I know the answer but I think he can probably provide better detail.
Tyler Purvis
Yes, we looked at distributors -- various distributors within the region. We focused on the current quarter although we did do a sampling of large transactions back in prior quarters as well, just to ensure we had comfort over the numbers as presented.
Scott Zeller - Needham & Company
Okay, and could you tell us, Brian, an update on when you last spoke on the previous earnings call, you talked about the material size, Packeteer channel partners. I think you had mentioned there were roughly 30 of them that were material in size and you had mentioned that somewhere around nine or 10 of them had been brought on to also selling Blue Coat.
I mean, I did get the metrics that you shared. You said 30% up overall for all channel partners selling both solutions but how about the largest Packeteer people, just a rough progress report on that?
Brian M. NeSmith
You know, I don’t know the exact numbers. What I can tell you is that we are seeing synergies between both -- selling of both products and it’s true with our partners but also true of the products and our partners are starting to recognize that as well. We definitely are starting to see even historical Blue Coat partners realizing opportunities with Packet Shaper. We’re seeing historical Packeteer partners seeing a lot of opportunity of selling both and there’s a bit of confusion right after the acquisition where people weren’t even sure exactly where they were going to end up. But I think generally now we are settling down and we are finding that the partners that we really wanted to keep and wanted to leverage are really fully engaging in the process here. So I’m actually pretty bullish on the activity we have going with that partner channel and the investments we’ve made in that channel and also in helping drive leverage in our operating model as we go forward.
Scott Zeller - Needham & Company
Thank you.
Operator
Next we turn to the line of Jonathan Ruykhaver with ThinkEquity Partners.
Jonathan Ruykhaver - ThinkEquity Partners
You mentioned the closure rates have improved. Can you comment on where geographically you have seen the improvement and what do you think is driving it? Is it just better resonation of the value proposition changes in market competitively?
Brian M. NeSmith
I don’t -- no, the closure rates I think is primarily an economic issue. We didn’t really see a change in the competitive dynamic through the course of the quarter. We definitely saw by far North America strengthen up and Asia probably weaken a little bit and as a result, because North America is such a large percentage of our business that it caused the overall closure rate to actually improve slightly.
Jonathan Ruykhaver - ThinkEquity Partners
Okay. In terms of the guidance you gave, given the changes that are occurring on the sales side and how you are taking the product to market, is there any change in the closure rate that’s built into your assumptions?
Brian M. NeSmith
No, the way we normally look at it is we look at the previous couple of quarters closure rate and look at some average combination of that and that’s what we assume going into the next quarter, so it didn’t continue -- it didn’t deteriorate but it actually ticked up slightly, which means we’d expect roughly the same closure rate as we got last quarter.
Jonathan Ruykhaver - ThinkEquity Partners
Okay. And I think one of the things you mentioned last quarter was that you were seeing just a higher volume of smaller sized deals. Does that continue to be the case?
Brian M. NeSmith
Basically, I think compared -- we had roughly four deals in Q3 over $1 million and that was about six in Q4, so we saw a few more larger deals in Q4. We didn’t -- you know, we did see probably an equivalent number compared to Q3 of a lot of smaller deals, so there’s still a lot of what I would call relatively small deals flowing through the system here.
Jonathan Ruykhaver - ThinkEquity Partners
Are you still seeing increased scrutiny in those large deals, maybe customers deciding to just go for it with a smaller purchase?
Brian M. NeSmith
Yeah, I think generally speaking, we are definitely -- you know, there’s still some compression. Even with the improvement in the closure rate, relative to what it was a year ago, that being said what it was compared to six months ago, it seems to be stabilizing, that budgets have settled out, people have the money that they know they are going to be able to spend. It may not have been as much as they had last year but now it’s clear where -- you know, the first calendar quarter was a bit challenging. Things were in flux but I think we are seeing just things kind of settle out -- clearly not at the historical run-rates but at a more stable going forward rate.
Jonathan Ruykhaver - ThinkEquity Partners
Right. Okay, good. And then on the secure web gateway side, it looks like revenues were down a little bit sequentially. Have you seen any change in the competitive environment around that product? Maybe McAfee -- as a result of the McAfee acquisition of Secure Websense looks a bit -- looks like they are aggressive, pushing in the marketplace.
Brian M. NeSmith
We have definitely seen the marketing -- [best way to put it] of some of our competitors here. The reality is right now that I don’t think we are seeing much of a change in our success rate, where Websense historically does very well in the smaller and some of the medium-sized accounts, I think Blue Coat's strength is in the larger enterprise accounts and we continue to have great success there in turning over customers, either from -- that were either Websense or they were old Cisco customers. We are still converting Net Cash customers as well. I mean, there’s themes of all of those things and above but no, I haven’t seen a change as a result of either the acquisition of secure -- you know, McAfee acquiring Secure or some of Websense’s recent announcements in the market.
Jonathan Ruykhaver - ThinkEquity Partners
Okay, so you are not seeing an increase in customer churn on that business then?
Brian M. NeSmith
No, I think if anything, we’re still getting great success and customers that were using Websense are using old Cisco content engine or are using smart filter and our ability to convert them to Blue Coat web filter.
Jonathan Ruykhaver - ThinkEquity Partners
Okay, good. Thanks, guys.
Operator
You have a question from the line of Rohit Chopra with Wedbush Morgan.
Rohit Chopra - Wedbush Morgan Securities
I had a few questions here -- one, could you give us an update on the progress in hiring a CFO? That would be the first question.
Brian M. NeSmith
Sure. A pretty simple update there -- we’ve been interviewing a lot of people. What’s somewhat interesting is there are a lot of candidates in the market but there are a lot of companies looking for candidates, so we are proceeding at pace. It’s hard for me to predict when that reaches the finish line. We are fairly picky about what we are looking for, so that means that we are being selective here. I am actually -- we have some temporary assistance with an interim CFO which is providing some great help as a fill-in, but in the interim -- you know, I expect that we are going to have success here. I can’t say exactly when but I remain pretty optimistic.
Rohit Chopra - Wedbush Morgan Securities
Okay. And then I just want to come back to the change in the sales realignment and the distribution model. That seems like a complicated undertaking so I just want to ask you a few questions related to that. When did that come about as far as the discussion about changing all that and why did it come about? And then isn’t that going to cause some disruption near-term?
Brian M. NeSmith
We started in the second half of last fiscal year with an understanding that today, up until we made this change, we treated the whole world the same way. In other words, every customer, the way we dealt with them is we had a territory manager, we had an SE, part of an inside sales person and everything was purely territory driven, and this was true for everything all over the world. We are getting to a point, and especially as a result of the Packeteer acquisition, that for a number of our customers, we are becoming strategic. What’s interesting to me in the last six months, I have probably sat down with 10 times the number of CIOs that I sat down with in the previous five years of the company’s business and it goes to I think that one is the value proposition from our historical products, the Proxy SGs are increasing but when you add Packet Shaper to that equation, for a lot of customers [are becoming] more strategic and what we reached a realization is, is that we need to segment how we service different customers and so we divided them up into what we call strategic large enterprise and then our more historical kind of territory view. The territory view covers off everything else. The strategic -- we have account managers that are specifically focused on those largest accounts and selling and working those down on an enterprise wide basis, and so we felt we needed a different skill set, some of which we had, some of which we had to hire to really focus on those largest accounts that are global worldwide accounts that are buying not just a single solution from us but multiple solutions using our products. And it’s been a gradual evolution that we decided it was more important for us to accelerate doing that.
Rohit Chopra - Wedbush Morgan Securities
Okay, and as far as disruption and turnover in the sales force, is that -- are we sort of there now? Are we done?
Brian M. NeSmith
I think you are mostly there. I think a lot of the turnover we’ve had over the past year is us starting to do part of this anyway, so some of that has already been built in to the numbers that we’ve outlined for you.
Rohit Chopra - Wedbush Morgan Securities
All right, and then two quick ones -- one, can you talk about the verticals that are doing better or worse? And then maybe I guess Tyler seems to be providing the numbers, so I’ll ask for a total headcount if you’ve got one.
Brian M. NeSmith
The total headcount, I actually do know that number off the top of my head, but Tyler maybe can tell me right off, because he can do it quicker. I believe the total headcount is roughly around 1,450. To be exact, I think it is 1,459. And what was the first question?
Rohit Chopra - Wedbush Morgan Securities
Just on verticals, just trying to get a sense of any verticals which you think are better or worse over the last few quarters, any changes there, and that’s it.
Brian M. NeSmith
You know, we saw a little bit of a burst in the first half of the fiscal year around the financial sector which was a little bit surprising, given everything that’s going on here but a result of these mergers and acquisitions, companies have had to buy our product in order to make those acquisitions happen in an effective manner. So we’ve seen a little bit in financial services, I think a little more heavily weighted last year than probably typical.
I don’t know if there’s really any vertical more so than any other. I’m just trying to think if there’s any trend that we are seeing here and I can’t actually identify any vertical in particular that I would highlight.
Rohit Chopra - Wedbush Morgan Securities
Thanks.
Operator
Next we turn to the line of Daniel Ives with FBR Capital Markets.
Daniel Ives - FBR Capital Markets
You talked about margins -- how should we think about that for the next year or two, or even long-term, just given the margin leverage potential in your model?
Brian M. NeSmith
Normally we don’t give very detailed or we don’t give long-term margin guidance but I don’t see our margins materially moving one way or another over the course of the next year or so.
Daniel Ives - FBR Capital Markets
Okay, and then just lastly, when you bring on a new sales team, and I know you are not bringing on anymore but what’s typically the ramp until they really start to become -- not just integrated in the organization but really start to hit some of their targets and sales goals? Is it like a six-month ramp, nine-month or is there a way to kind of quantify that?
Brian M. NeSmith
We’ve talked about it in previous calls but we -- roughly it takes four to five quarters for a rep to move to full productivity.
Daniel Ives - FBR Capital Markets
Okay. Thanks.
Operator
Next we turn to the line of Alex Kurtz with Merriman Curhan Ford.
Alex Kurtz - Merriman Curhan Ford & Co.
Could you just give us a little more detail around competition in the quarter, what you are seeing from Cisco, what you are seeing from some of the security guys in [inaudible]?
Brian M. NeSmith
Sure. I mean, we talk it along too thematic lines, the security side of the business first and then maybe talk about the WAN optimization side second. On the security side, the competitive picture is -- you know, McAfee acquired Secure Computing so where we would use the term smart filter, our sum product in that are the web watcher product, that hasn’t really changed. I think product wise we haven’t really seen any change. With the acquisition by McAfee, to this point I was actually expecting more activity and we haven’t seen a lot of it, so the competitive picture there, I was actually expecting more but haven’t really seen much of a change in regard to McAfee, especially vis-à-vis what they did with the acquisition of Secure.
From Cisco on the security side, not much of a change on that front either. With Websense, they have made a number of product announcements, both a SAS solution, an appliance solution. We’ve seen a little bit of discussion but again, I’ve read the marketing but from an -- understanding of the field, haven’t seen much of a change in the competitive dynamic in that environment.
One thing that I would highlight on the security side is we are seeing a lot of not just McAfee but we saw Symantec and I expect Trend will do the same thing but we are seeing a lot of SAS type security solutions that people are starting to talk about. They may not be delivering them but they are definitely talking about them and that’s definitely starting to create a bit of noise in the market on the security side, and we haven’t made any public announcements regarding our product strategy in that area but we are definitely starting to see some noise in the market competitively around that.
On the WAN optimization side of things, it remains Riverbed, then Cisco competitively. With the new release of software, one of the biggest objections and challenges that we’ve had, although I don’t think it was terribly difficult, it was still harder to install our product compared to our competitor’s product, and this new release of software basically removes that as an obstacle. You can -- customers can now do an eval, get it installed in less than a few minutes and be up and running and see the value proposition. So we -- with our most recent product introduction and release, the SG 5.4 release, that really I think stepped up our ability to compete in what I would call a pure WAN optimization environment, and we do expect to do that going forward in a much more significant manner than we have historically.
And any environment where the customers want something just a little more than WAN optimization, whether it’s a visibility feature, a security feature, video streaming, dealing with encrypted content from the web, it’s a slam dunk for us. We are very strongly positioned there competitively and remain so. The dynamic I don’t think has shifted much from either Cisco, Riverbed. We are probably the one that is causing more of a competitive change, which is really an upgrade in our ability to compete in the straight-up WAN optimization environments.
Alex Kurtz - Merriman Curhan Ford & Co.
And as far as pricing and sort of how they are arranging product and hardware and software and sort of bundling of deals, what have you seen from either the WAN op or the security guys? Any aggressiveness that you’ve seen in the market over the last quarter?
Brian M. NeSmith
Not really. You know, I think that -- a couple of things of note. We just got the latest informatics report on market share and we moved ahead of both Riverbed and Cisco. Cisco actually dropped a little bit into third place, so I think in their view, we are in a strengthening position in regard to WAN optimization but I haven’t seen, on either of the security side or the Riverbed side, bundling. I know there’s been some marketing announcements with some of our competitors bundling some of their -- you know, we have competitors from each side of our house getting together and trying to compete and I think as we highlighted in our prepared comments, that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and I guess we view it that way but practically speaking in the field, we have yet to really see that impact.
Alex Kurtz - Merriman Curhan Ford & Co.
Okay, and just sort of the last question, after a couple of quarters now of Packeteer being part of the company, have you been surprised by certain verticals or certain types of customers that they have been able to pull traditional Blue Coat sales into? Has there been a real bright spot in sort of their expertise and areas that they have done well in that have really benefited the greater Blue Coat platform?
Brian M. NeSmith
Somewhat. The two areas I would highlight in particular is Packeteer is especially strong in education and some government environments. And then Packeteer was also strong in any type of environment that was heavily using the Citrix ICA client, and we have definitely seen some pull of Proxy SG product in both of those environments.
Correspondingly on the other side of the equation, where Blue Coat has historically been strong, we have been able to sell Packet Shapers and enhancement, the level of visibility and control that people have at their web gateway, especially around VOIP and video streaming and other types of protocol capabilities.
Alex Kurtz - Merriman Curhan Ford & Co.
Okay, great. Thanks.
Operator
We have a question from the line of Erik Suppiger with Signal Hill.
Erik Suppiger - Signal Hill Group
Good afternoon. Earlier you had said that you weren’t expecting much change in margins in light of some of the leverage you are talking about. I was a little confused by that. Wouldn’t you expect to see some operating margin expansion?
Brian M. NeSmith
I think the question was referring to gross margin so if I misspoke, I wouldn’t expect the gross margins to change in a significant way but we do actually expect changes in obviously the operating margin in a positive way.
Erik Suppiger - Signal Hill Group
Okay, so on the operating margin, I understand you don’t want to give guidance but you’ve had volatile operating margins over the last couple of years, can you speak qualitatively? I don’t know if you might -- would you anticipate sequential improvements each quarter or how can we start to look at some of the leverage you are going to get?
Brian M. NeSmith
What I would expect in very broad terms is we are going to be conservative in our spending and our hiring and as a result, depending on how fast our revenue grows, we should see the flow through to our operating expenses, so we would probably generally expect to see consistent improvement and it may be even more than that to the extent that we have better revenue growth than we expect.
Erik Suppiger - Signal Hill Group
In terms of headcount, should we presume that it will stay relatively flat at these levels?
Brian M. NeSmith
No, I don’t think it will stay at flat. We are going to continue to be hiring in the sales organization as we still see opportunities for growth, so I don’t think we would say flat. I just think what we would say is our headcount is not going to grow as fast as our revenue, clearly.
Erik Suppiger - Signal Hill Group
And then just on the packet shaper front, you’ve posted some sequential growth on the product side. Are we at a point where the packet shaper business should continue to grow sequentially from here?
Brian M. NeSmith
I think so. Probably not in a huge way but I do think so.
Erik Suppiger - Signal Hill Group
Okay, very good. Thank you.
Operator
Next we turn to the line of Gabe Lowy with Noble Research.
Gabe Lowy - Noble Financial
Thank you. Two questions for you -- first on the securities side, are you happy with the feature set you’ve got now, or do you see the need to broaden into something like data loss prevention or some other compliance related area?
The second one is in light of the commentary you have made and the informatics report on WAN optimization, how would you reconcile that with Riverbed’s quarter after quarter after quarter claims of 90% win rates?
Brian M. NeSmith
The second one is a tough one. I think that a little bit goes to how you characterize win rates and I can’t totally speak for them but I think we self-select certain environments and I don’t think Riverbed counts customers that are worried about video or worried about streaming or worried about an authentication feature or some other item in the context of rolling out a WAN optimization deployment. I think they may somewhat self-select themselves out but I can’t totally speak to as to how they characterize those two things.
I do know that if you were to look back two years ago, they would have pointed to Juniper as a competitor, they would have talked about Citrix or F5 and I think they have perpetually said that Blue Coat is not a competitor. I think if you go back three quarters ago, we now get mentioned, we get talked about, we know they have data sheets that talk about us competitively and I think even more recently, they have highlighted that more and more Blue Coat and Cisco are their main two competitors.
I think if you look at even the most recent quarter, you can see our product revenue went up where in the most recent quarter for them, their actual product revenue went down, so I can’t speak to how you reconcile the actual statement they made but I think there are just lots of points of evidence that we are continuing to gain some traction, not only in the broader definition of the market but even in the more narrow definition in the market.
As to the feature set, you know, we partner with a number of different DLP and AV partners from our standpoint and right now, we don’t really feel like there’s a need to do anything but partner. We are excited about working with these different companies as part of what we call our technology integration program, our TIP program, and so from our standpoint, I don’t think there’s really a reason for us to look at added functionality there. A lot of our customers have standardized on a particular DLP or a particular AV platform and we need to make sure we remain compatible with that.
Gabe Lowy - Noble Financial
Thank you very much.
Operator
Next we turn to the line of Samuel Wilson with JMP Securities.
Samuel Wilson - JMP Securities
All my questions have been answered, but I just wanted to confirm one thing -- cash from operations was $4.8 million for the quarter?
Brian M. NeSmith
That’s correct.
Samuel Wilson - JMP Securities
And what was CapEx?
Brian M. NeSmith
Hang on a second -- Tyler, do you have that off the top of your head? I know I have it. I can look it up.
Tyler Purvis
Yeah, I’ve got it right here. CapEx was $6.7 million for the quarter.
Samuel Wilson - JMP Securities
$6.7 million -- and what should we expect CapEx to be for fiscal 2010, roughly? Anything major?
Brian M. NeSmith
No, we’re not a capital intensive business, so I think that we are going to be a little bit conservative this coming year but I’m not actually -- I don’t know that number off the top of my head.
Samuel Wilson - JMP Securities
No, I guess just qualitatively -- I know in the past you’ve had to move out of offices and do some of those things, and I just wanted to see if there was anything sort of major on the horizon.
Brian M. NeSmith
No, in the past fiscal year, obviously the big CapEx expenditure was the combination of Blue Coat and Packeteer into a single corporate headquarters. We don’t have that kind of large activity going on.
There are some other smaller locations that we are having to upgrade but that’s not as significant as the corporate headquarters.
Samuel Wilson - JMP Securities
Okay, perfect. Thank you so much.
Operator
(Operator Instructions) Next we turn to the line of Douglas Ireland with JMP Securities.
Douglas Ireland - JMP Securities
Thank you. I remember there was some talk a couple of quarters ago about making relationships with carriers in order to sell WAN optimization as a carrier-based service. I was wondering if you had any details on the progress on that.
Brian M. NeSmith
We look at the carriers and the selling of managed services, the selling of customized solutions, the selling of systems integration capabilities as clearly a very powerful path to market and we have partners now all over the world, some that we’ve announced, some that we’ve not, but it definitely is a big investment area and we are getting a lot of traction and people selling carriers specifically selling managed solutions of our products to enterprise customers, and that -- I don’t know if you are looking for something quantitative. I don’t know the actual revenue split right now but we definitely see it on both sides.
Douglas Ireland - JMP Securities
Okay, I guess I was wondering if it was a measurable portion of your sales.
Brian M. NeSmith
It’s a significant -- it’s a reasonably significant percentage. I don’t know the exact number so I am reluctant to throw it out but I know it’s more than 10% to 15% of our revenue in this type of activity.
Douglas Ireland - JMP Securities
Great. Thank you.
Operator
You have a question from the line of Rob Owens with Pacific Crest. Please go ahead.
Rob Owens - Pacific Crest Securities
Thank you. Could you address the sequential down-tick in your short-term deferred revenue?
Brian M. NeSmith
It’s a good question, actually. A couple of things -- the biggest thing is we’ve started moving to this new fulfillment model from an overall company standpoint, when you look at our deferred revenue, the typical things that are in deferred revenue are mainly service that hasn’t been recognized, both long-term and short-term, or any product but we also defer any of the stock and inventory that’s carried at the distributors and we don’t actually recognize that revenue until we get a point of sale report. We know that we are moving away from stocking distributors and so we’ve started reducing the amount of inventory we have in that channel, which I think is the biggest driver to the reduction and deferred revenue. I would actually expect to see something similar in Q1 and maybe even in Q2. So we still have a lot of service bookings, so it’s not something that’s reflective of what was going on with our service bookings.
Rob Owens - Pacific Crest Securities
I guess two questions from there, Brian, then -- can you tell us with a little granularity the service tick-up sequentially, number one? And as a function of that, is there any implication then for service revenue that will be recognized in the first quarter?
Brian M. NeSmith
I don’t know the number, the actual service bookings Q3 compared to Q4. I don’t remember when I was reading the data that something looking out of the ordinary. It actually looked very ordinary. It varies in any one quarter. We do actually find Q4 to be a little lighter than Q3. Q3 is actually for us, fiscal Q3 is the calendar year-end and we find that the renewal rates right at the end of the calendar year are higher than normal. And then I think our service bookings were roughly flat from Q3 to Q4, which generally would be a positive sign. Q3 is normally a strong quarter.
As far as how that’s going to affect revenue coming out in the quarters, we expect service revenue is going to continue to go up, along with our product revenue.
Rob Owens - Pacific Crest Securities
Great. Thank you.
Operator
Speakers, we have no further questions in queue.
Jane Underwood
Okay, great. Well, thank you for joining us on today’s call. A replay will be made available at 800-475-6701 beginning on June 2, 2009, at 7:00 p.m. Eastern Time. An audio archive will also be available on our website. Have a great evening and we look forward to speaking with you again soon. Thank you.
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, that does conclude our conference for today. Thank you for your participation and for using AT&T Executive Teleconference service. You may now disconnect.
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"As part of this new structure, we have adjusted our sales incentive plan across the sales organization."
This sounds like you plan on increasing sales through new structuring and incentives. That might increase sales in the short run. But how can you expect different results in the long run if your sales people keep using the same skill set?
Today there is greater effort to maximize sales, increase revenue and protect margins. The ten calls that once generated two customers have increased to twenty. Farmers must now become hunters.
When business or the economy is slow, sales management needs to focus on gaining a higher percentage of revenue from the existing opportunities. This takes a planned and precise approach to selling; an approach that must be customized for the organization and adopted by the entire sales force. New sales skills sets must be learned and reinforced, otherwise salespeople fall back on unproductive or destructive sales behavior.
For example, most salespeople do not follow a selling procedure that as a first step, establishes a Commitment Objective for every sales call. This is the number one mistake that all salespeople make. In fact, our research shows that salespeople will never reach their performance potential without a well-defined sales-call procedure they can follow and learn from. “Winging it” on sales calls has grim consequences – lost sales, extended sell cycles, margin erosion and no clear path to improvement. Bottom line: An increase in sales can be mediocre at best without following a proven sales procedure. Performance improves by as much as 50% when salespeople have a consistent game plan for their sales calls.
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