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Idenix Pharmaceuticals, Inc. (NASDAQ:IDIX)

Deutsche Bank Securities 38th Annual Health Care Conference Call

May 30, 2013, 01:30 pm ET

Executives

Ron Renaud - President & CEO

Analysts

Alethia Young - Deutsche Bank

Alethia Young - Deutsche Bank

So Alethia Young here again, I am one of the analysts in the DB biotech team and very happy to have Idenix Pharmaceuticals here; Ron Renaud, CEO and President, so we’ll just conduct the fireside chat format. If you have any questions feel free to email me at alethia.young@db.com or we have some nifty app, that’s probably Your-In.com/db; you can post whatever you would like to say unanimously there and you know maybe perhaps the quick coordinators will give me a drink if somebody exit post there, because (inaudible) sadly.

So with that, Ron I guess I’ll just start with the news that you have this morning. I just wanted to kind of, I also have one simple question just and thinking about the regimen that you are doing with HELIX like you are doing in the 1b and genotype 4, what was the rationale for pursuing this population specifically?

Ron Renaud

I am sorry, can you give some background to start-up with, (inaudible)

Alethia Young - Deutsche Bank

Yeah, sure. So Ron, go ahead.

Ron Renaud

Just by way of background, Idenix Pharmaceuticals, we’re a company focused in the infectious disease space; we are focused on developing antivirals for infectious disease and right now we have a very exclusive focus on developing all oral regimens for the treatment and ultimately the cure of hepatitis C virus. We have been around for about 14 years, 15 years and we’ve had a focus in the past that’s been a little more broad on hepatitis B, HIV and HCV and in fact in HBV we successfully brought a drug to market with our partner Novartis; drug called telbivudine which is a nucleoside analog for the treatment of HBV. We have also developed compounds in the HIV setting; we’re in partnership with GSK sometime back around a non-nucleoside reverse transcriptase inhibitor and we really got away from that background to focus on HCV; we have a lead clinical asset that Alethia was alluding to, where we had news on this morning a drug called samatasvir, formerly known as IDX719 which is an NS5A inhibitor and then our real core competency something that the company's real bed-rock is or the company is really build on is our competencies in nucleoside chemistry, nucleotide pro-drugs and liver-targeting and that’s the technology that we’re employing in development compounds for HCV.

Question-and-Answer Session

Alethia Young - Deutsche Bank

Awesome, great. So I will just restate it again, the background, so that have the trial ongoing announced today the HELIX; which is basically strictly looking at 719 and simeprevir (inaudible) say that and Johnson & Johnson, Janssen collaboration samatasvir which used to be known as TMC435 for 12 weeks; so I just wanted to ask like as far as the population to be in study they are like why…….?

Ron Renaud

Sure; so it’s a good question, so the study that we announced this morning, we begun to treat patients on HELIX-1 and the reason we are focused on 1b and the four in its initial study with the two compounds is that it’s really you have to go to the strength of the weakest compound in the combination. So in this case with simeprevir the best data that they have is in the 1b and in the fours, so that’s really where we are going to set up the focus initially, you want to be sure that you have good activity there so that in the case that you know, 1a or other genotypes don’t behave as well; you don’t want to basically lose the classes of compounds for further treatment down the road. So with the 1b and fours in this study, as part of the non-exclusive collaboration that we have with J&J, there is another study that will come after this and that’s a triple combination with samatasvir and simeprevir and then their non-nucleoside which is a ritonavir boosted non-nucleoside called TMC it’s 055, I think it's 647055 and that will look at a little bit more broadly across genotype 1 and genotype 4.

Alethia Young - Deutsche Bank

And so, when you look at HELIX-1, is there the ability to expand that trial again to add other arms, is there flex adaptiveness?

Ron Renaud

There is. And they will be adapting this in this trial and in the next trial. I think what we're going to build in, I think probably, and this won't be exclusive to Idenix I think as an industry, as a group of companies focused on HCV. I think we're going to have to all be ready to adapt the trials, you know, very quickly, add arms. My sense is you are going to have a lot of studies that look like the electron study in the near future here as data continues to emerge with various treatment durations, various arms with different mechanisms of action.

Alethia Young - Deutsche Bank

Or like the [Aviator Study] right, they are all going to be the same. You know, I guess just talking a little bit about the three drug combo and the two drug combo you have, I mean, ultimately what's your thought on like the boosted regimen; like do you think the booster is for the traction. I mean there has been a lot of debate with the Gilead, Abbott whether a booster is a problem?

Ron Renaud

Yeah, I mean, look I think it certainly does something to complement the regimen and if you think about what the ultimate goal is here, the ultimate goal is SVR; you want to cure patients of their HCV and so if having the booster as part of regimen we think that enhances the chances of getting there; I think for us as a company we have multiple opportunities here, not only in the study that we announced starting today, where we’re dosing those patients, but in the next study as you point out with ritonavir boosted, non-nuc, the PI and then NS5A. But then along on the heels of that we’ll do another study hopefully with samatasvir and our nucleotide pro-drug. So there are a number of opportunities here I think we have to be at least from where we sit now, we have to be open to where any of these trials could take us.

Alethia Young - Deutsche Bank

Yeah definitely; and I guess just on that kind of the timeline like by the end of year maybe just kind of give us a flavour for like what data that we’ll have in hand that can people are more confident about the pipeline?

Ron Renaud

Right. So we announced the start of the double combination study of samatasvir and simeprevir today and we would expect that we could have some SVR4 data from that program probably sometime in the fourth quarter to be sometime before the end of this year, if all goes according to schedule. I have said earlier this year, we gave guidance that was our intention to file an IND for a new uridine nucleotide pro-drug before the end of the first half; we remain on track to fulfil that. And if all goes according to schedule there that would go into a proof-of-concept study, a seven day proof-of-concept study that we would expect to have data from sometime probably late third quarter or early part of fourth quarter. And what we are really driving that there with that program is to be able to exit 2013 with a Phase II study underway where we combine samatasvir, which is our NS5A inhibitor and our next uridine nucleotide pro-drug. So that’s an important set of steps for us, because really what we are trying to drive at is getting that combination study underway on this side of 2013 and then going into 2014 really thinking about what pivotal trials will need to look like bases on the data generated from this year.

So we should have data from the Janssen collaboration, the nucleotide prodrug proof of concept study in the second half of this year and in the first half of next year, early data from the triple combination as well as combination of the NUC and NS5A.

Alethia Young - Deutsche Bank

So you have some data on the triple combo, you think or?

Ron Renaud

I think we could have from the triple combination study will start in the third quarter. We expect it to start in third quarter. So my sense is that if end of this year it would be tight, it is going to be more like early next year.

Alethia Young - Deutsche Bank

Okay. And you will be read -- you will be reading out SVRs and all the stuff?

Ron Renaud

Yeah, I mean, I think there was the time that reading out the RVRs, the end of treatment responses, there was the time where as we’re all raising down the path that was -- those were important time points to measure, but I think now we are going to have regimen that comes to the market all or regimens where we're really focused on SVRs, SVR 4s, SVR 12s, the only important number really, the only important statistic out of these trials is to have SVR data.

Alethia Young - Deutsche Bank

Yeah, definitely makes sense. I guess with speaking of further combos like, is it your relationship with J&J that you can combine your simeprevir with your uridine like is that an option that you have in the contract?

Ron Renaud

Yeah, right now the way that the non-exclusive collaboration is set up is that the only obligations the two companies have to each other is to do the double combination of their protease inhibitor 435 or simeprevir with samatasvir NS5A or the triple combination which includes their non-NUC. There are no obligations to do any additional studies on the heals of that.

That being said, obviously, if we have very successful results in these trials, it would make sense to try to not only continue those, maybe done a pivotal pathway but also try to expand them to include nucleotide prodrug, that wouldn’t be part of the question, but it’s not part of this non-exclusive collaboration, there is no obligation to do so.

Alethia Young - Deutsche Bank

When you look at like simeprevir data with the [Gilead combo] and being able to -- very strong without ribo, it seems that that is like whoever can replicate that can also get some significant benefit?

Ron Renaud

So that is, yes, it’s a great observation. I think if you looked at that data set, that is some of the most robust, some of the best data we have seen in HCV. So that is certainly something that picks our interest, something we'd be very interested in. And I also think it would be really nice if HCV was so homogenous that you really could just say okay, one tail is going to treat every single aspect of HCV, whether or not it is pinching the (inaudible), high fibrosis scores, no responders, pick the most difficult to treat patient population.

We think we may be able to get there with the very potent NUC and a potent NS5A, but my guess you are still going to have some type of segmentation with certain patients requiring maybe three different distinct mechanism of action in the way of DAAs and most others will be okay with just getting to, I think we are not at the end of figuring that out yet.

Alethia Young - Deutsche Bank

At this point to our knowledge base, it's like two and three drug combination which could potentially exist and that either of this is not going to be just one, like I guess in the language of Gilead’s pick like a wave 3 where everyone is treated with one pill once a day?

Ron Renaud

I think with the right combination, we may get there, but if you think about the data we've seen in the most difficult to treat patient population, those patients have probably been best addressed with combinations that exceed more than two drugs. So they’ve been in the three plus drug combinations.

I am not sure there will be a third wave. I think it's going to play out a lot longer than people think it's going to play out. If you look at the number of HCV patients that are in the U.S., that are in EU big 5, that are in Asia, and now for the rest of the world, a lot of the assumptions, a lot of the calculations assume patients that haven't even been diagnosed yet. So these are, we're taking very big broad brushes and we're saying okay, let’s assume that you know 1% to 2%, or 1% to 3% of patients in the U.S. have HCV. So that gives us one number, a certain percentage of the patients in the EU big 5.

But by and large, if you don’t have advanced disease, if you don’t have advanced fibrosis, not psoriatic, not otherwise symptomatic, you haven't even showed up at the doctor’s office to get the diagnosis at this point. And if you think about taking that even one step further, we have guidelines in place today here in the United States, CDC guidelines that are looking to screen four HCV, any person that walks in a doctor’s office has born between 1945 and 1965, and if you ask any KOL that’s involved with this initiative, they will tell you exactly how difficult it is to get those patients screened because most doctors don’t know what to do with the patients if they get an HCV diagnosis. So there is a tremendous number of HCV patients that are out there, but it's going to take us probably the better part of the next five to 10 years to find those patients.

Alethia Young - Deutsche Bank

Really you think five, I mean that’s been very aggressive right?

Ron Renaud

I think five million would be aggressive.

Alethia Young - Deutsche Bank

I think it's very aggressive, I mean you think about the diagnosis rate now and what's it like 1 million have a -- are diagnosed and like we have got propellant population at least four, it's low.

Ron Renaud

It is I mean.

Alethia Young - Deutsche Bank

When you think it will double to, do you think it will double, where you think we ultimately end on diagnosis, it's a important question?

Ron Renaud

I don't really know, I think it's too early to say. Right now it seems like it's very difficult to get doctors to actually make the least and do that, but if you think about just even in the U.S. from 1945, people born from 1945 to 1965, that’s about a 100 million people in this country. And if 1% to 3% of them have HCV, that is a massive number of patients and some of the numbers we have seen in the highest year of treatment.

Any year that we have had drugs to treat HCV, it's been between 150,000 and 175,000 patients, the most that we have ever treated in the United States in one year. So we have got a big leap, a big chasm from our peak year of treatment to potential for the number of patients that are out there.

Alethia Young - Deutsche Bank

You definitely do, and I mean what's another interesting thing is my personal view that, I think for people who are later stage in the first larger providers, there is going to be a big refractory market. I find that hard to believe in the real world that people are really going, even that the cure rates are definitely lower than what we have seen in the clinic. So I mean what's your thought on kind of designing regimens that go after totally just a refractory market and you’re having the best in class in there?

Ron Renaud

Yeah. I mean I think you still, there will be some segmentation as time goes on, right. People will develop the regimens, they will develop the compound, the assets that they have in house and if they work better in certain patient populations and others, I think we'll see that segmentation, we'll see that focus but if you listen to the KOLs you spend and I know you do and you spend a lot of time that easily in ASLD, what these doctors want in simplicity. They we're coming through to 20 or 25 years of treating patients with interferon with ribavirin very toxic regimens to treat the disease not even in every case to cure it.

Now we are talking about 90% SVRs I mean that's if you don't have the 90% SVR in any of the genotypes, I think it's going to be very difficult to say that you've got a drug in that area because somebody will ultimately, there's too many people going after it, somebody will ultimately come up with regimen or something that they get that 90% SVR in that patient population. So I think from our perspective at Idenix we believe that there is still a tremendous opportunity to come up with the regimen that treats just about everybody. It's going to be Pan-Genotypic, it's got to be very, very potent so in the case of the new nucleotide pro-drug that we said we'll file an IND on in the first half of this year, this is when where we're seeing generate more liver triphosphate anywhere from 15 to 20 times more liver triphosphate than anything we've seen that is in clinical testing.

And we believe that combined with a safety profile a toxicity profile that could allow this to be administered as a very low and generate high SVRs combine that with in NS58 or another direct (Inaudible) we believe we can get to a very, very patient population, broad swath of HCV patients that otherwise is not being addressed.

Alethia Young - Deutsche Bank

Well that's a good segue out some questions about your (Inaudible) and I going to guess one I'm sure by now someone's create some sort of Gilead replica. So I'm just curious like if you can give any color on by comparing like how your regimen looks in the (Inaudible) versus like what the Gilead or Vertex or any one that's developing assets?

Ron Renaud

Yeah, I mean we don't want to get into too much of what it looks like, I can tell you that from a first of all after we get to the clinic with this compound, we'll have more to say about. But I think pre-clinically, we very much like what we're seeing with the uridine nucleotide pro-drug. Keeping in mind that we were in preclinical work with this compound at the same time that we were dealing with the toxicity issues around the around the (Inaudible) NUCs between our compound and what was going on with the Bristol-Myers compound.

We were able to take much of what we were learning from that process and apply it to the preclinical work that we were doing on the new uridine NUC. And generally when you putting an IND together you have to be standard battery of IND enabling prelicinical toxicity work PK that kind of thing to pull together the package to get to the FDA. What we actually did here was we overlaid the standard battery assays and tests and animal toxicity work and looked very, very in a very concentrated way at cardiac toxicity. We looked at mitochondrial tox, we did more clinical assays more monitoring than we've ever done with any nucleotide that we put in the clinic and we can say that from an the cytotoxicity assays extensive cytotoxicity work. And we've seen the cytotoxicity of some of the other compounds that are out there, whether it was the old and heavy tex compound or some of the newer compounds that are out there.

And from a cytotoxicity perspective, this new looks very, very good. It looks head and shoulders above a lot of the things we've seen out there. We haven't seen any preclinical cardiac tox, mitochondrial tox. So this is something from a pre-clinical toxicity perspective. We're pleased with and then again in the way of potency, like I said, we generated a very, very high level of liver triphosphate which we believe will translate to in an ability to have a lower dosage in the clinic. So our goal here is to have a nuclear type pro-drug that gets the same kind of potency as anything that we've seen out there at something that's hopefully a 100 milligrams or less.

Alethia Young - Deutsche Bank

You made a couple of interesting points there. One, I just wonder if you can give us some flavor like as to how much of an advantage it was having some sort of access and understanding to the inhibitex compound and like the process that you know, kind of ensued from there?

Ron Renaud

Yeah. I mean, having access that, I mean it was clear to us. It was helpful in the way that we could really understand where what the toxicities were. We had a front row seat on everything that was going on. So it helped if there was any silver lining in that whole process that helped to educate us in terms of being proactive in bringing the next nucleotide pro-drug to the clinic.

We have to remember also, we've been in this nucleoside space almost, since the very beginning. I mean basically, this is what the company was founded on. It was our nucleoside chemistry expertise. So, you know, there were a lot of things that we brought to bear here and bring in this new nucleotype pro-drug forward. A good amount of, I would be lying if I didn't say, a good part of it came from what we were learning near-term what was going on with IDX184 and Bristol Myers compound. A lot of this also was just a culmination of our experiences over the years. David Standring, who is here our Chief Scientific Officer, we've spent a better part of the last 30 months really trying to figure out what makes a good nucleotide pro-drug.

We looked at the pro-drug component of it. We looked at the sugar moiety and we looked at the base. We ended up synthesizing well over 2,000 compounds looking at various combinations of each of those three components of the nucleotide pro-drug tweaking and looking at a number of different things and with a goal of really trying to generate high liver triphosphate and having very low cytotoxicity.

So as we went through and you can imagine having well over 2,000 compounds, you think that you would have a big number of compounds to pick from there, out of those 2,000 compounds we really came up with roughly of dozen that were we are really, really attractive. And when I tell you that we internally, we raised the bar for these, we cytotoxicity-wise looked at almost every single cell line possible, we looked at cardiac, we looked at liver, we looked at, I mean we went right across the board and no place that we were well over 100 micro moles across the board. Most places you couldn't even measure it. It was cytotoxicity looked just fine. So we see a lot of new nucs that are there, we've seen nucs in the past with cytotoxicity in the double-digits and the single-digit that was something if we saw cytotoxicity at that level, it wouldn't have even made our screen.

Alethia Young - Deutsche Bank

So, once you get the uridine and do the proof of concept I guess one, how confident are you and will the FDA require some sort of additional monitoring and then two, just how confident are you in the timelines because I mean look back like the vertex compound, I mean looks very interesting, but the processes seems to have been very slow because it seems the FDA is rather conservative about how to develop nucleotids going forward?

Ron Renaud

Yeah. So let me take -- I will take a second question first. As far as the timelines, we are confident in the timelines assuming we plan for success. So this is if all goes according to the schedule that we have for ourselves whereas we said IND goes in before the end of the first half and lot of start and the proof of concept studies in the third quarter.

As far as what monitoring we have to do, we can't say. As I pointed out we did an extensive the amount of preclinical tox work and tox work that we have never done as part of the IND package before and to the best of our knowledge tox work that nobody else has done as far as an IND package is concerned. So the fact that other sponsors have had to go slowly is more likely because there wasn't anything there to mitigate the risk, there was no data there to say okay you won't cost this kind of toxicity and to go at a very measured pace.

I think from our perspective doing a lot of that upfront work in the I&D enabling program is hopefully we can do to demonstrate that we mitigated that risk and that we won't need the monitoring, but again this is going to be in the hands of the FDA. The FDA has a full body of data in front of them. They see our compounds. They see other sponsors compounds. So it’s very difficult for us to speculate on what they may or may not make us do. We just hope that the data we have will speak for itself.

Alethia Young - Deutsche Bank

So that makes sense. I just wanted to like spend like 10 minutes or so just on some big picture person. One of them I mean it sounds like is that recently that you would consider kind of like working with another, like collaborator and that is probably the best path forward. At this point do you like discuss that a little more, I mean if the J&J compound shakes out well, do you think that just something that you guys both pick the borrowing on immediately with that?

Ron Renaud

Yeah. So I think the comments I’ve made recently is we wouldn’t rule it out. I would tell you that it’s not what we’re driving at, we’re not trying to drive at a collaboration right now or anything along those lines. What we’re trying to drive at is getting our compounds into the clinic and generating data and really getting to a point where we have a good sense that we have regimens that will be very competitive in the future. And until we know that, I think I would probably steer clear of trying to do any type of collaboration, because I think the real value inflection point for these compounds is when we can make the decision on what a robust Phase 2 and even a pivotal Phase 3 program might look like and who like either right partner to take that forward.

I think the reason to consider a collaboration why we keep it on the radar screen is this is going to be a very, very competitive landscape, there is just no two ways about it and there is not going to be as much as people would like to believe. There will be a strong players, but it’s not going to be a one win winner takes all situation in HCV.

And I think to that end where you are going to have a lot of parity around SVRs, I think you’ll have parity around safety, you will have parity around convenience. There will be regimens where I think we get to one pill once a day, won't just be a one company and maybe two, maybe even three companies that get there. You are going to start really competing in this landscape around the things that the big companies, they compete on which is going to be the mind share of managed care organizations, pricing, contracting.

There is going to be a lot of leg work that has to happen there that the wherewithal of some of the bigger companies will come into play and a company like Idenix could really benefit from. So we would have to strongly consider something like that as we go forward but it's not something that we're driving out today.

Alethia Young - Deutsche Bank

And I will just open it up before I have a couple of other ones, but any questions from the audience? I guess, you know, next question is there is a little bit of debate about when does the standard of care change when Gilead comes to market? Do you think that immediately or do you think that it's like later or what are the timelines that you guys are working against?

Ron Renaud

Yeah, it's a good question and I don’t have a definitive answer on that. I mean if you think about standard of care, as we've known it in the past, it's really been some derivation of pegylated interferon and ribavirin for some length of a time, 24, or 48 weeks. I think here even out of the gate, we're going to have some new participants in the HCV space, but none that really represent a standard of care at least in the first tranche of approvals because first of all we don’t have one regimen that’s coming forward in the next six or eight or ten months. That is the same regimen for all four or six genotypes or for that fact for all various stages of HCV severity, whether it's a difficult to treat patients or the treatment naïve patients.

So I think until we get to something that’s more broadly applicable, which is not that far away, we're not that worried about in the near-term. By the time we get to pivotal trials, let’s assume we're in pivotal trials sometime in the next 24 months. In the next 24 months, could there be something that is considered standard of care? Absolutely. And I think from our perspective, we're going to have a very good idea what the SVRs will look for our regimens early on, probably one of the more favourable things about doing clinical trial work and virology as you know early on with the potency of your compounds and ultimately the regimens look like. I think what my concern as the CEO of Idenix is if I have to run a non-inferiority trial it's not about the trial itself or worried about being inferior, I think we'll have a pretty good sense that going into the trial. It's really the expense.

I don't think these HCV drugs are going to be inexpensive and I think to have to run a trial, where you have a standard of care that could be very, very expensive, it just takes up the costs of the program dramatically.

Alethia Young - Deutsche Bank

Well, that's a good question for you since you said it, price, what do you think these regimens are going to be priced at, like what's your thought on like you know, Abbott regimen, Gilead regimen from current for pricing?

Ron Renaud

Yeah. I want to stay a little bit away from that I think it's good for us that we don't have to do the heavy lifting on that there are lot of regimens that are going to come forward, there are data sets at eight weeks, there are data sets at 12 weeks, there are data sets at 16-week that show very promising data. So figuring out how to be clever around price on all these different regimens again that's, I am happy that there are big, big companies that are trying to figure that's out we can be right in rear view mirror on all that.

I will say we saw data, it's now it's very highly quoted data set from [Dr. Dietrich] in New York talking about $195,000 per cure, per patients I think getting the current standard of care which is the PIs and (Inaudible) and that just -- that's the cost per cure, which considers everything that goes into treating those patients whether or not its growth factors or support of care around the toxicities from those regimens. But what it doesn't consider is what happens downstream have you saved, have you taken a patient off the transplant list, have you eliminated someone's risk of hepatocellular carcinoma.

The cost of the system for these kind of situations is tremendous and we don't, it doesn't get much airplay, it doesn't get a lot of attention because it generally it's beyond HCV, it's something that happens downstream. So while the upfront costs maybe significant to cure HCV, I think the savings are going to come on the come back and where we're going to see transplant risk drop dramatically, I think the incidence of HCC in U.S. to EU big five and in fact in Asia where it is a big problem and it could come down pretty dramatically.

Alethia Young - Deutsche Bank

And then just couple of big picture ones, you know you seem to be in this era of non-exclusive data in (Inaudible) world when do you think that will come to an end, you think it's a year from now or do you think it's six months or two years?

Ron Renaud

Well, I think people are going to want to - they're going to want to have their horses in the race here in the next 12 to 24 months. So well the non exclusive stuff go away, I don't know, it's to me I've been around the industry for a long time these nonexclusive deals, deal pretty unique to HCV, I'm not sure I can recall maybe you know better than me, but I don't know another therapeutic area that's had so many non exclusive collaborations. But if you think about it, it's worked well for the industry. It's -- I think for some companies they may feel like they got the rug pulled out from underneath them but I think for a lot of other companies they probably feel like look I have no obligation to move forward with some of the regimens that had not fared so well.

So I think they're probably going to start to fade a little bit just because I think we are really done to get a good focus on who the players are going to be on the HCV space, it's unlikely we're going to see a lot of new entrants unless you see people start to aggregate assets or something along those lines but my sense is we're going to have a pretty good view over the next 12 to 24 months exactly who the at least the major players that in the HCV competitive landscape we're going to be.

Alethia Young - Deutsche Bank

So in 30 seconds or less or we'll give you 45. What like over past six months like how has your thinking changed, it's been pretty dynamic in the hep c world?

Ron Renaud

Yeah. I think for us with what happened with our past NUCs with what we've seen, I think it was a great opportunity for us to really start looking in where it look at what as I mentioned what makes a good nucleotide pro-drug. We've spent a lot of time just really trying to understand the nucleotides that we have really going through and combing through every aspect of the pro-drug, every aspect of the sugar every aspect of the base. This at some point, well David and his team will write this all up. But I have to believe that this is probably one of the most intense efforts, we've ever seen in nucleotide drug discovery in virology. This is a huge, huge effort and I think we have a pretty good idea what makes a good drug.

Alethia Young - Deutsche Bank

Ron, Dave, Doug, Terry thanks for coming here today and also congrats on starting the trial, that's big.

Alethia Young - Deutsche Bank

Thank you. Thanks, Alethia.

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