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Executives

Mark Zeffiro – EVP and CFO

Analysts

Jamie McQueen – JPMorgan

TriMas Corporation (TRS) J.P. Morgan Diversified Industries Conference Call June 4, 2013 3:30 PM ET

Jamie McQueen – JPMorgan

I’d like to thank everybody for attending today. My name is Jamie McQueen with the JPMorgan. I’d love to introduce Mark Zeffiro who is the Chief Financial Officer for TriMas. I think what we will do to start the discussion is, a Landmark went through a handful slides to help orient everyone around where TriMas has been and where they are going. And then we can kind to open up Q&A, I’ll start the Q&A and then everyone should feel free to ask – fire away questions.

Mark Zeffiro

Fantastic, thanks Jamie. For those that don't know us, TriMas Corporation is publicly traded company. We’ve been public since 2007 and basically when you think about our company, it was a turnaround story back in those days, it was -- you never have to remember the days of darkness and uncertainty.

So, when we think about our company in terms of diversified industrial, you think about it in terms of five basic verticals. The verticals have different dynamics in terms of short and long cycle but the actually commonalities throughout. But let’s talk a little bit, a little bit about the cycles, we will go from there.

Basically packaging industry, which is largely dispensing and dispensing technology for food, pharma as well as health and beauty aide. This is one of our procedures businesses in terms of not only return on capital generates but also the long-term growth prospects of the company. The energy business largely services, great customers by the name of Dow, BP, Fresca and (Moto Rush), our friends at Petrobras and others around the world. It largely an MRO kind of turnaround situation whereby we provide the technical bolts and gaskets for their activities at the refineries.

The third business, large business for us Jamie is related to Aerospace. And you can’t name an airframe that were not on that we are on every single airframe that you ever went in, including Sikorsky Aircraft in terms of helicopters as well as every other airframe. Our differentiator there is really the technology associated with the bolts and the fasteners that we provide those air framing activities.

And I skip the next one go to Cequent, Cequent is a towing and trailer business. Now we don't make any – our views, we don't make any actually luggables, what we do is, we make that process safe through the technology associated with bolts as well as the actual hedges, weight distribution systems, the braking systems as well as widening and other related electronic associated with them. It’s our biggest business and quite frankly back in the day was shareholder destructive in value and as you can tell from the relative results, Jamie, we can’t turn that around, it’s actually middle of the pack in terms of returns for us as a company.

And the last segment if you will is the other brothers Engineered Components. It’s industrial gas cylinder about half the business which obviously serves Praxair and the other half of it is really upstream oil and gas extraction. Now, when you think about that breadth of company you are thinking about a couple of things. One is you got short cycle and long cycle businesses, you’ve got industries that are obviously servicing consumers but all the way up to heavy industrial customers. What’s common about them is the operating processes that we have, the blue chip customers that we have. Intellectual property is a core tenant for us as a company in terms of differentiation and the ability to invest and demand returns as a result of it.

And one of the things that we had to do is, we had to establish operating disciplines as a company from an investment perspective as well from just overall process as an over company. So, the tenants that we run the company and our strategic aspirations, it really comes to the form of those that hasn’t changed in four years. And it’s been successfully met each and every other year.

With the top-line being up high single digits and typically the next question is, is that organic or acquisitive never going to say. The reality is, our sales have outstripped that through organic as well as acquisition related activities. Our balance is about 50-50 namely relatively high single digit organic growth and we also like to double it up if you will through acquisitions.

There are part, that’s important to fund those acquisitions as productivity, 3% to 5% is what we hold our business to but most importantly what we were looking for them to do is fund their own growth. And that that obviously then helps us fund the growing and growing end markets in terms of where we want to actually deploy capital for both organic and acquisition needs. And when you put that together, you end up in a paradigm in terms of our financial paradigm whereby we can grow earnings significantly faster than that of top-line revenues.

We were and I will use that word specifically a levered company. We’re not to two-ish, to change in terms of relative low leverage. But the reality if it is when you think about us as a company today as compared to four years ago, we’ve gone from a seven times lever down to two and we’re not done. We’ve got more work to do in terms of deleveraging the company. And the strong cash flow benefits that we have as a company clearly put us in the right – on the right track.

Now, it was interesting, I was talking to some people outside and you focused on what’s important here. You don't focus on what is not, you focus on what it is, in terms of bright spots for growth and I’m not going to read all these to you but each one of our businesses have organic opportunities for growth within our market spaces. So, we actually incentivize our teams to actually execute on those opportunities.

And then ultimately when you think about us as a company, this is a great chart, when it talks about our geographic dispersion, you think about us as a company that was nearly $900 million just a few years ago pursuing $1.4 billion this year. You all of a sudden start to see us in places where we never before. Two years ago, we didn’t have anything in Brazil, now we do. Two years ago, we didn’t have really anything in India to speak of and now we do.

The list goes on in that context not only from a supply perspective but also from a selling perspective. And along the way, this is what’s important to us in terms of how we generate the ultimate productivity as a company. And you start with the things that are obviously leverageable and what I would tell you is that we’re probably a decade behind in terms of really thinking about leverage as in enterprise. We didn’t have the ability to buy pencils together, paper together what have you those basic fundamentals that you saw companies do in the 80s or 90s quite frankly.

We are try and catch up, and we will catch them quickly and what we’ve done is, we taken this ability not just as to be focused around sourcing, sourcing productivity but also helping us towards, if you all lean or lean related efforts in terms of lean experts and helping people understand Six Sigma methodologies, 5 S those kinds of things across the enterprise. But also, we use this organization that we built the GSO to actually be the tip of the spear. Tip of the spear to penetrate markets that we don't have anybody in.

So, we call up the phones, say," hey, listen, we want to go Kazakhstan for the first time." Tell me who we should meet with and go spent some time in country understanding the oil and gas platform and help us understand what’s happening in that market, an example but that’s what they do for us. And they have actually have been very, very successful in terms of helping us penetrate India, Brazil and other places in the world. So, when you think about it us as a company, here is our external guidance, I believe. The external guidance, you can read it.

One of the things that that for people that know as well and those that we kind of update this each and every quarter and give updates across the year as to what we expect. But one of the things that we have – as a company have been very much aligned to is continue to build investor confidence. When we first came public, there was a reason why there was a turnover associated with both the CEO and CFO back in 2008 and that was really investor confidence and confidence that the company was heading in the right direction.

We’ve done nothing but actually deliver on those strategic aspirations for the last four years plus and we’re actually pretty proud of the company we have built so far. I think that’s really is, isn’t it and ultimately our view towards our value proposition as a company is that we got a balanced portfolio that clearly has the opportunity to generate growth that’s funded through our productivity efforts and that’s a multiplicity effort towards generating EPS and obviously shareholder value.

It’s interesting to have the opportunity to take our investor through a journey here. When I came on Board, it was about $5 a share and we’re now, if you give me hard round $33 a share. So, we’ve been recognized and we have patient investors along the way but we’ve been able to improve the enterprise along the way. So, that’s kind of us in a nutshell. What matters to us is growing the markets, what matters to us is how we are perceived in those markets in terms of our ability to actually deliver on our commitments and deliver real shareholder value. So…

Jamie McQueen – JPMorgan

Good. Mark, thank you. That was a very, very good overview. You touched on couple of things back when four years ago (sea suite) change if you will. Can you give a little bit of color for the audience in terms of your background, day’s background kind of where you’ve been? And then compounding on top of that where do you want to take the company next?

Mark Zeffiro

Yeah. What’s interesting is, Dave and I are both GE veterans. We spent our formative years at GE early in our career. Dave was with GE for about 12 years. We actually didn’t know each other. We are generation or decade apart. He then went to Allied Signal and ultimately to Emerson as well. So, this is a gentleman that’s very steeped in operating disciplines as a company. And obviously have seen best in breed kind of experiences in that context.

I was with GE for 16 years. And the corporate staff, whole bunch of time with their friends and appliances so we learned how to compete in a really tough industry and then I got to spend some growth years so to speak with the medical systems business. Ultimately then I transitioned to a private CFO for a couple of years help them figure out what it meant to raise public debt. That was my first foray in terms of really having the CFO suite of responsibilities. And then I was recruited back in Black & Decker, management four years with Black & Decker. So I have seen branded products. I have seen heavy industrial products as well as obviously high growth businesses as well.

Now, the last part of your question is, where do you see as going as, our acquisition funnel is full. We don’t buy big companies. We buy small companies. Small companies that we know we can leverage across the enterprise. And also gain synergy. So either a) we are looking for regional expansion and then you can see where we spent time there technological expansion or product gaps all of which to service our large global customers.

So that’s part of the funnel. The other part of the funnel is organic. These businesses are small but big in their respective spaces. So they have the ability to really punch bigger than what they are in terms of their ability to compete. And most importantly we want this place to be one that is proud of being part of TriMas. Our businesses are just learning and feeling that that they actually have a big brother. And they have a big brother that has a capital capability to help them grow in markets. That wasn’t the case four years ago.

And that has allowed us to actually step on the gas towards being operationally better, reinvesting in our manufacturing footprints so that we are actually operationally smarter and we are generating productivity along the way. So, along with the answer to see, a company that’s much larger then yesterday with a track record, if I have to envision us five years from now. I love to be able to write the headline for the Wall Street Journal that says TriMas doubles again in size. TriMas more than doubles its profitability shareholders are happy.

Jamie McQueen – JPMorgan

Yes. You can kind of step back and you think about where we are in the economic cycle and all the improvements that you and your management team have embarked upon to really kind of drive efficiency, drive growth focused on the geographic expansion, the product line capabilities and filling that. Where do you see the next 18 to 24 months with the economy as it relates to your businesses, if you have crystal ball?

Mark Zeffiro

Yeah, I have for certain. This is another one that Dave and I just frankly don’t care. What I care about is being nimble. And I care about reacting to that market space in an efficient and effective way. But in the meantime make hay. It’s interesting, I grew up as the son of an immigrant family that my dad had a couple of simple phrases in family. And he make fix roof when its out raining those kinds of things. So we have the opportunity here that even though the markets are kind of crappy flattish if you will or still growing. And because you don’t take the excuse while the markets aren’t there well they are. So we then go punch in the nose and take the volume away from or how you are going to go and compete in a space that you don’t compete in today or what technology do you need to go take somebody on. So don’t give me the excuse that the market is flat, give me the plan to grow.

So, what we have been able to do is build on that kind of methodology that we are growing organically last year was nearly double digits. So when you put in context, nowhere in the planet, its growing double digits. So we have been able to take share, growing markets that we know exist today as well as expand on the acquisitions that we made. So, I don’t care what it is. But what I care is, how we react to it.

Jamie McQueen – JPMorgan

Okay. Thanks. Do you want maybe touch a little bit on your most recent acquisition down in Brazil, how you guys went about sourcing had to thinking about like where the fit was, how you structured the transaction and how that could be replicated this model going forward as you continue to think creatively around the growth for the company?

Mark Zeffiro

Yeah.

Jamie McQueen – JPMorgan

While sticking to your basic tenants that you outlined?

Mark Zeffiro

Yeah, for certain. I have been a participant in lots of acquisitions that have failed miserably. The good news is, I have yet to see that happen in TriMas. And what’s different is, the discipline that we provide in the sourcing of those transactions. Brazil is a great one. It’s early days you had still force. But, what we did, we took the entire executive team who in large part haven’t had any exposure to Brazil before. The implications, however, is thought was really the first time and maybe a decade that any of them had seen that market. So we spent some time with them in their markets met with their competition in the markets, met with the – spent time depending on what the end customer outcomes are in either a) distributor or b) really customers that use the product and help them understand the markets.

And what has happened there was we heard from customers or customers that we have on a global scale, we could really use your help. Okay. How could you use our help? Well, the company that services me today locally doesn’t either have the capital capability or the technical competence to actually meet my needs. Okay. What’s the name? So we ended building a funnel of real acquisition opportunities in Brazil. So we ended up buying both a bolt manufacture and a gas cut manufacturing in Brazil, which will continue to add to that as a portfolio. But the cycle time take time. So we typically buy entrepreneurial owned companies that we don’t get into auctions because frankly that’s just an effort to get more money out of it. And we spend time with those entrepreneurs to help them understand what their outcome could or should feel like.

The reality of it is, those customers have thanked us from coming to the market. You know something that’s to say oh, my god TriMas is coming to the market that’s not the point at all. But what’s important is that we see an uncertain need in that market and an uncertain need that we know how to service in other places on the planet and we believe that model works locally which is customer centric.

So how does that fit, that fits in every market. So we did the same thing in India and we got a funnel for India, the same thing for China, we did have a funnel for China as well as other places on the planet including even Europe. So the reality is, we are looking for that entrepreneurial in business that is looking for that next step that doesn’t know to do it on their own.

And I would draw parallel, take yourself out of Brazil for a moment. Our packaging business that we bought in February of this past year, one of the larger transactions we have done in a while was about $60 million company when we bought it. It’s now more than $80 million on a run rate basis, its improved its profitability quite nicely. But why did they sell to us? Why they sold to us was, believe that this is a $200 million business, you shouldn’t sell today, it’s not your best interest. So why are you here willing to have a conversation around selling your business?

And the answer was my customers requiring me to become a manufacture and I don’t know how to do that. Okay. So, what are your key part of the business? We will do a joint venture with you. We know how to do manufacturing. We know how to extract value, so what we do was actually brought them that solution that allowed them to actually have a material effect on their families. But, most importantly provided as a business and a footprint that we didn’t have before, gained us technology as well as customers along the way kind of cool.

Jamie McQueen – JPMorgan

I know it is. And clearly it’s been paying off, you have been rewarded by the market for your growth and your focus which has to be commended. As you step back as multi-industry diversified industrial companies come across this question, some more frequently than others it’s optimal for EMX. And how do you look at your businesses today in terms of figuring out kind of where not only the growth opportunities are, but what may not make sense long-term to keep as part of the mother ship?

Mark Zeffiro

Yeah, for certain. The first question typically the people say, wouldn’t you be better of being single vertical, answer is no. That’s not who we are, and if you are going to have a single vertical of any one of these businesses they would be sub-optimized simply because of their size. So we can outperform our peer set because of the size of this companies and because we have leverage in terms of technology and know-how that we are deploying to those businesses.

So, that’s part of the – if not the specialness of TriMas right now. If you have to rewind the clock and look at Roper or ITW or Danaher, whoever is (inaudible) at the moment and look at their size as to what we are today and look at their five years following that size. We have the ability of small numbers, the lost small numbers in our case to actually drive real profitability improvement as well as top-line expansion as a result of our businesses.

Now, I brought back a chart that has the five verticals of purpose. If you think of it left to right, our investment thesis is the first three businesses packaging, energy and aerospace. Really have long-term secular momentum in those. And those guys get hurt by the strategic apple. So when you think about real investment thesis those are the businesses that I see as having long-term value creation for shareholders. The end of it, the fourth and fifth are largely, I wouldn’t say exclusively and only but largely about cash flow generation.

So when you think about it, if you are talking about buying businesses and double enough growth in some of those other places, gosh, it’s got to come from somewhere. So it only does it come for productivity but also comes from businesses that are incentivized and we are recognize them rewarded for generating cash flow. So we have got circa $100 million with operating cash flow that comes through that two segments. That we can deploy for real long-term growth.

So that’s – no, when I think about it, is it perfect today, no. Could it be perfect today, no. We are still in the process of fix and sequent, it’s still got a couple of hundred basis points where the profitability get ahead of it in terms of the things that we are doing there. And will generate yet more cash and the enterprise value as a result of the investment that we will make will be six-fold improvement in terms of relative value. So as we spend time doing that.

Jamie McQueen – JPMorgan

Macro financial metrics, do you focus on and does the management team focus on in terms of operating the business, is it purely growth in margin or do you really focus on ROIC and some of the other metrics that are out there. What’s your bogey?

Mark Zeffiro

Yeah. We think about how we incentivize the teams. When I – actually had with Jack Welch last week and as I told you there were couple of things that you said to me in my career that made me think long and hard. And one is you get what you measure. So, if you measure things and incentivize certain things because why you are going to have people spend time on it. So sales and operating profit is a matrix for us in our incentive plan. So is cash, cash flow generation, so its productivity and so is growth. All those four measures make up how people get paid short-term.

Longer term, instead of ROIC, there is a – I found that that was hard to articulate to a broader audience. We looked at EPS, CAGR and we looked at cash flow conversation. As a percent of net income and that is a long term incentive plan which ties directly to our strategic plan.

So that’s how people are incentivized, so that’s a – for our incentive purposes that’s a surrogate for return on capital employed, we evaluated (inaudible) whatever method you want to look at – we looked at it. But I think the simplest measures deliver the best result because people can translate it on how their asset performing. So for us that’s how you evaluate management performance. But when you think about acquisitions we look at in hurdle rates just like anything else and we look at in terms of is it accretive, dilutive and so how and why but most importantly we are looking at it making sure that the multiple make sense for us in today’s dollars as well as the synergies we are not paying for those. But ultimate we are thinking about those in terms of how our shareholders benefit from that.

So when we finish up file one, one more thing. The other thing that we also look at very pointedly is what is day one you pay x for a company. That’s the number. Our is about six in terms of our multiple, in terms of all the acquisitions we have done. What is it 12 months from then and what is it 24 months from that and currently the curve looks like for us six to four to three. So 24 months out, you are paying three multiple for what you otherwise brought into the company.

Some better than that obvious reason, some less not as good as that but the fact the matter our holistic view towards the basket of acquisitions we have done that’s something that we think about both short and long-term as well.

Jamie McQueen – JPMorgan

Good. I’m going to ask one more question, then we are going to open and then I would like to open it up to the audience because we have got about 14 minutes left. What concerns keeps you up right now in terms of the business? And where there any I heard your CEO say a couple of times that he doesn’t lose sleep over the businesses because it’s a good portfolio that I’m sure you share a similar view but maybe you could just touch on that a little bit?

Mark Zeffiro

One of the one on ones today was focused around what keeps you up at night and what can surprise you at the outside. What keeps me up at night is the unknown fact associated with the U.S. government printing money. I don’t know what that looks like long-term. And I don’t know what that does to end market. So what we focus on, the warm blanket that keeps me warm at night given that those execution. Focus on it on what you can control, focus on making, if you feel fixing the roof before it rains and focus on operating business performance.

And so that’s what I was trying to do, that’s what Dave was trying to do and that’s what we expect of our business unit. But there is a high degree of uncertainty as to what that means to us as a country. The global economy at large and there the implications are – should be deserving, it’s an excuse though. It’s never an excuse.

Jamie McQueen – JPMorgan

Good. Well, I would like to open it up –

Question-and-Answer Session

Unidentified Analyst

And talk about the products in your key areas and what the synergies are like well across the line from your packaging and list your top three?

Mark Zeffiro

For certain. When you think about the synergies that we have plastic is used in multiple places in our business, steel purchases used across our businesses, high-end alloys are used across our business. So we have leverage there in terms of purchases. We also have commonality in terms of our manufacturing processes when you are cutting metal guess what, all the capital equipment is the same. See, you have got leverage there as well.

So, when you think about the inputs are more similar than they are similar, the manufacturing equipment uses more similar than dissimilar. And the process by which we are deploying lean and lean manufacturing technique is more similar and dissimilar. Now, how they are different is size is good, technology necessarily in terms of what that product is and in terms of how hard it is to manufacture. And that’s how – how things are different but the reality is freights leverageable, input costs are leverageable, whether be steel, energy, plastic et cetera.

So when you think about the first business there the steel that goes into our closure manufacturing business which is industrial side of the house, the other two-thirds of the business is packaging and packaging in terms of dispensing which is plastic. But we use plastic in other aspects of the business as well. The next business we use steel in terms of the rings associated with the gaskets as well as metals in that process in the form of either a centrifugally forged tubing but again it’s all based upon commodities of different kinds of steel.

And then aerospace is largely titanium and other types of alloys including stainless steel, there is leverage of that stainless steel in the Norris Industrial Gas Cylinder business. So there is leverage associated with purchasing scale that we are able to get.

Unidentified Analyst

There are separate plans (inaudible)?

Mark Zeffiro

We have not gone there. We have kept the manufacturing footprint as distinct and separate as we don’t – I have seen situations where you cross pollinate in the manufacturing disciplines or manufacturing products and if you put plastic and steel together you get a bad outcome or if you put large device and small device together you get a bad outcome. So, focus factories that have small manufacturing overhead that are focused on speed is kind of what we try to keep that pure.

Unidentified Analyst

In short that shows operating profit margin is 10.9%, just intuitively when you look at the components at all looks like you should add-up hell a lot larger than that?

Mark Zeffiro

You got. Yeah, what’s not on the page is obviously the corporate costs. So those are the operating profit, correct exactly before the corporate expenses.

Unidentified Analyst

What are some specific drivers and organic growth in those three – your three kind of key segments and what’s the second question, appropriate leverage of the business now?

Mark Zeffiro

I will start with the last first. We are targeting 1.5 to 1.75 is kind of our leverage level. The reality of it is, is that if you benchmark our premier industrial – the premier industrial companies, you can see that that it’s kind of what they have operated out for decades. So we are headed towards being that premier industrial.

Jamie McQueen – JPMorgan

Now, can I just ask one follow-on on top of that before you answer his first question.

Mark Zeffiro

Sure.

Jamie McQueen – JPMorgan

What’s your comfort zone though in terms of – for the right acquisition, how comfortable are you with maybe not going back to anywhere near where you were back when you were a LBO but what’s kind of the top-end of the range where if for the right deal you stretch.

Mark Zeffiro

It’s got to be a leading industry, no more.

Jamie McQueen – JPMorgan

Yeah.

Mark Zeffiro

And quite frankly, it’s even that makes me uncomfortable.

Jamie McQueen – JPMorgan

Yeah.

Mark Zeffiro

So, I would want to see it and I was to give the hand signal that says but I want to see the path or by I guess it’s back to a two in a one over discernible period of time. And refresh me on the question, I’m sorry.

Unidentified Analyst

Over the next two years…

Mark Zeffiro

The drivers on the first three segments, I got it.

Unidentified Analyst

Organic, yeah.

Mark Zeffiro

Organic drivers. If you look at the first segment, I’ll focus primarily around dispensing, health and beauty, food and Pharma as well as you know the specialty dispensing elements, this market is growing 5% a year for health the last decade. What drives that is technology associated with dispensing, what drive that is environmentally conscious need to ship less water and use less water and the actual goods that you are shipping around.

What we provide is technology to be able to actually deal with those higher discussed solutions either a) through a foaming technology or through airless dispensing in the case of food as well as pharma applications. So, longest term, really the technology starts in Europe and then migrate to other places in the world. And then the other part of it is South East Asia as well as Brazil in terms of just population growth.

If you leave our website of which lever is a big customer for us, they talk about the establishing one billion new customers of their products in the next decade. I’d like to just add my fair share of that one billion new customers. And we’re supporting them in South East Asia rather extensively. So we’re participating in that that respective effort, so, population growth growing middle class.

In the case of, I’m going to skip energy and come back to a business a little bit of a different driver, what drives the aerospace businesses is fuel efficiency. Composite aircraft is, is their effort to become more fuel efficient. Our titanium fasteners in this context are clearly the best in class and clearly the latest in class where they’re very kind of tensioning force associated with those products.

So, we’ve got an aged population of associated with aircraft that are being replaced for fuel efficiency needs, associated with the either fuel composite scanner otherwise. So, that, that, if you look at any, any analytic that the next peak associated with aircraft built rate is expected to be 2019, 2020 depending on I don't know, if any of us can see that far but that’s what we math says. So, we’ve got double-digit growth ahead of us just organically.

In energy, when we think about consumption or conversion of feedstock, anytime, anybody changes the input or changes the output that make money that we’re going to re-pipe, re-plumb, reassemble the refinery. Outcome is, they need all new bolts and gaskets. So, I love product change. I love consumption because even if they don't change, the products of the bolts and gaskets fatigue and otherwise degrade over time. So, every time that facility is used for 18 months, I guess what, they’ve got to re-plumb the whole thing.

So, for us, it’s about consumption of energy and depending on who you believe consumption of energy is not going to fly out anytime soon. So, but it ties back to middle class growth and ultimately energy consumption as in industrialization of those emerging markets.

Jamie McQueen – JPMorgan

Next, next question, Tom?

Unidentified Analyst

(inaudible).

Mark Zeffiro

Sure. Europe, the question was talk about Europe. Europe for us is, is a special market. It’s really the originator for technology and the packaging business. And so we’re looking for technologies that expand our product footprint in Europe. Is it for us for growth opportunities, it’s really about entering that market for the first time. It’s not about say maximizing something we already have, these were not huge in Europe. But it is the largest stifled geography outside of North America in which we do business. That packaging business has felt the bottom. It’s starting -- I call the other side of smiley face, starting to see the uptick in terms of consumer consumption.

So, it’s starting to grow real growth here at least last quarter and hopefully let’s keep our fingers crossed that it continues to turn a little bit. To do a piece of that thing is important to us in Europe is that realistic multiples are coming back in terms of when we think about companies and targets and acquisition opportunities, the disproportionate value versus what the new reality is, I think the owners of businesses are starting to recognize that if they really want that next step in their business that their multiples have to and their valuation expectations are different than what they were five years ago.

So, for us it’s a bright spot but it represents and you have to be focused on those bright spots but it’s a bright spot in terms of real growth opportunities for us as a company. Does that answer your question?

Jamie McQueen – JPMorgan

Next question, anybody?

Unidentified Analyst

How many new people have you brought in since you and Dave since 2007 or 2008, that’s in the operating not a corporate but any operating group?

Mark Zeffiro

That’s a great question. The operating presidents about a third turned over and about a third of the Divisional Financial Officers turned over as well.

Unidentified Analyst

In the last five years?

Mark Zeffiro

In last five years, yeah. So, not a lot. What we found is, in certain cases, the business just outgrew the individual’s ability to actually lead the company or they were used to be in a $35 million company and all of a sudden they are $100 million company. And it’s a different set of skills to actually lead a business like that.

And in terms of finance people that turned over, it was largely again. It was a good controller or (plain) controller at $20 million but it’s a $100 million business and that’s a different set of skills to actually be the finance leader of that. What was interesting though is, it hasn’t been turned over because of how we are running the company. Because I think the people they actually wanted to see opportunity to win and I had one on ones with at least one of you in the audience, the key word is winning.

You have to have a management team that has the ability and confidence that they can win. And that was one of the biggest things we had overcome was that we expect them to win and we know they can and we’re going to support them to win. And that philosophical bend and I know its soft and gushy really helped those business leaders believe in their future of the companies and also believe in that TriMas was actually behind them. So, it was like -- it was really a cultural shift as a company.

Jamie McQueen – JPMorgan

We’ve got about a minute left, more kind of, are there any closing remarks, you would like to make just as it relates to the business or if there is another burning question out there you know we can open it up?

Mark Zeffiro

And firstly, thank you for the interest in TriMas. I know that it’s a different kind of name with a different set of expectations in terms of being diversified industrial. We’re really proud of where we’ve come, but we are more excited about what we can become.

Now, it’s a company that has real long-term growth prospects, real profitability improvement yet ahead of it and a management team that focused on making it a better place to work. So, thank you for interest.

Jamie McQueen – JPMorgan

Well, thank you for spending the time with us. We’re excited that you had the opportunity to present today. It is a fantastic growth story. You guys have certainly come a long way. So, congratulations on a good operating performance.

Mark Zeffiro

Okay. Thank you.

Jamie McQueen – JPMorgan

Thanks everybody.

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