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The next few days are going to be a very exciting time in the energy storage and electric vehicle sectors because the Obama Administration is preparing to announce a series of major ATVM Loan and ARRA Battery Manufacturing Grant awards.

President Obama will be in Elkhart, Indiana where he will presumably announce an ATVM loan to Navistar (NAV) and may announce some additional ATVM loans or ARRA battery grants. Vice President Biden will be in Detroit where he is scheduled to announce one or more ARRA battery grants and perhaps some ATVM Loans. Secretary Chu will be in Charlotte, North Carolina where he will presumably announce an ARRA battery grant to the Celgard subsidiary of Polypore International (PPO) and may announce other ARRA battery grants or ATVM loans.

I've resisted the temptation to wade in and predict the likely winners of the ARRA Battery Grant contest because there are so many deserving companies and many of them are privately held. But since The Wall Street Journal is making predictions I guess there's no harm in handicapping the "Cell and Battery Pack Manufacturing Facilities" category which is expected to include 7 to 8 awards of $100 to $150 million each. My list of likely grand prize winners is:

1. A123 Systems;
2. Ener1 (HEV);
3. JCI/Saft, a joint venture between Johnson Controls (JCI) and France's Saft Batteries (SGPEF.PK);
4. General Electric (GE); and
5. Somebody from the lead-acid battery sector.

Trying to round out the top tier list with any more detail is almost impossible and while I have my personal favorites, my opinion and $5 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks (SBUX).

The original funding opportunity announcement broke the ARRA grants down into several categories as follows:
Industry subsector Total Funding Awards Award Size
Cell and Battery Pack Manufacturing Facilities $1,200 million 7 to 8 $100 to $150 million
Advanced Battery Supplier Manufacturing Facilities $275 million 14 $20 million
Advanced Lithium ion Battery Recycling Facilities $25 million 2 $12.5 million
Electric Drive Component Manufacturing Facilities $350 million 3 to 5 $80 million
Electric Drive Subcomponent Manufacturing Facilities $150 million 6 to 8 $20 million
I have a hard time imagining that the Administration will announce a total of 32 to 37 grants in just three events. Accordingly I expect the process to draw out at least into tomorrow and perhaps into next week. In any event, I suppose we'll know more this afternoon than we do this morning.

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This article has 54 comments:

  •  

    I'm not fond of grants that much as it's rarely productive. Start up
    are better but by far better is orders!!

    There are many advanced battery factories sitting around way under used. By far better would be bidding out EV conversion kits for popular cars like the Focus, Fit,, etc light, fairly aero cars would get EV's, plug in electrics and their EV drive, battery companies business and ramp up production.

    The present market is rather slim with only as couple 1,000 EV, plug in Hybrids built next yr.

    Another would be peak power and night time charged, peak time discharged battery systems that can be used in gov, military building to lower electric costs..

    Either sales of these or energy savings would pay for them so little cost for the tax payer and get these industries, jobs started now instead of the 2 more yrs as the present plans are.
    Aug 05 08:31 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    jerrydd, a recent article discussed an unpublished DOE report that identified the stages of technical development that lithium-ion batteries will need to progress through before they are ready for prime time in the auto industry. The report is linked here:

    seekingalpha.com/artic...

    If you look at current Federal funding for the battery industry and compare what the administration is doing to the plan outlined in the report, the similarities are striking.
    Aug 05 08:53 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Funny how things work. Didn't GE pay $50 million in fines yesterday to Uncle Sam for some shifty accounting in 2002, only to maybe get maybe $150 million back from him today?
    Aug 05 09:49 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    CNN is reporting a total of 48 projects that will receive grants instead of the 32 to 37 contemplated by the original FOA. I think this is wonderful news because spreading the funding out over a larger base of companies merely adds to the vitality of the industry and should increase the final number of successful companies.
    Aug 05 09:50 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Mayascribe, GE is my dark horse candidate because their NaMCl battery isn't really primarily designed for automotive use, but with GEs stroke it may not need to be.
    Aug 05 09:51 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    The results are in!

    The Cell, Battery and Materials manufacturing winners are:
    JCI $299.2 million
    A123 $249.1 million
    Dow Kokam $161 million
    Compact Power $151.4 million
    EnerDel $118.5 million
    General Motors $105.9 million
    Saft America $105.9 million
    Axion/Exide $34.3 million
    East Penn $32.5 million

    The complete list of awardees is at:
    www1.eere.energy.gov/r...
    Aug 05 11:28 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Easy chart with some more details:

    www.reuters.com/articl...
    Aug 05 12:41 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Thanks for the prompt list, John!

    I guess I lied way back in that I said then I would never again own Ener1 again. This morning @ 10:45 I picked up a thousand shares. The moment Obama started speaking I sold the shares for a quick $570 gain. It wasn't but 10 or 20 minutes later the stock dropped about 70 cents. I would have picked up more shares in the AM, but I was watching a host of batt stocks today, and they didn't seem to be affected by the upcoming announcement, so I piled into Blackstone and made some $'s there, too.

    It was your guess about Ener1 getting some Obamabucks that I went with Ener1.

    I should send you a commission, pal!
    Aug 05 01:06 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    realist2, the Reuters description of the lead-acid awards is a bit weak on the detail because they both deal with advanced lead-carbon batteries for micro and mild HEV applications. So on balance I prefer the DOE table that provides more detail.

    www1.eere.energy.gov/r...

    Mayascribe, I'm a lot like a blind pig that finds the occasional truffle, I'd rather be lucky than smart . . .
    Aug 05 02:09 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Ener1 is going to be a relatively long term play that will bring a lot of profit for those who purchase shares. Nissan will make a deal with Ener1 which will soar the stock within the next year. No fear, my crystal ball is here.


    On Aug 05 01:06 PM Mayascribe wrote:

    > Thanks for the prompt list, John!
    >
    > I guess I lied way back in that I said then I would never again own
    > Ener1 again. This morning @ 10:45 I picked up a thousand shares.
    > The moment Obama started speaking I sold the shares for a quick $570
    > gain. It wasn't but 10 or 20 minutes later the stock dropped about
    > 70 cents. I would have picked up more shares in the AM, but I was
    > watching a host of batt stocks today, and they didn't seem to be
    > affected by the upcoming announcement, so I piled into Blackstone
    > and made some $'s there, too.
    >
    > It was your guess about Ener1 getting some Obamabucks that I went
    > with Ener1.
    >
    > I should send you a commission, pal!
    Aug 05 03:17 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Clairvoyant, since Nissan has already announced plans to build several of its own lithium-ion battery plants I'm not entirely sure I'd count on them for anything beyond royalties on jointly developed intellectual property. Even if you include the grant in HEVs equity, there is still about $600 million in air between the balance sheet and the market capitalization.
    Aug 05 03:30 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Now that the much anticipated Battery Awards have been announced, we can all get on with our lives. Back to work as usual for those of us who didn't get thrown a bone from the Government, and the focus moving forward will be on which companies actually have a product to bring to market, and which do not.

    I truly hope those who will be rewarded in the free market will be the ones who actually make a working battery product and won't be eclipsed by those (who with their freshly minted money) will grab the spotlight with a never-ending source of press releases?

    Let's all give the winner's their 15 minutes of fame, but make sure they use the funds to truly make a quality battery product that will push the envelope and advance the EV's promise of reducing our dependence on foreign oil while producing jobs for Americans!

    I do wish that the DOE would publish a complete list of ALL companies who submitted a proposal for these funds. It would only be fair to give the "loosers" a mention here as this was a Hurculean task for many of the smaller contenders.

    Write your Senator or favorite news service and ask them to furnish a list so the small guys get some well deserved credit for even competing!
    Aug 05 03:43 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Don, I agree with you 100% that the only thing that matters is bringing a product to market and getting a solid start on solving our problems. Anybody who spends too much time talking about how wonderful it's going to be will end up disappointing everyone. Now the onus is on the award recipients to prove that they deserve the funding, otherwise Don will find himself bidding for a used battery fab before long.
    Aug 05 03:52 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    John,
    As an avid reader of everything battery orientated and an investor in Axion it has been interesting to note that your critics always get louder when the market prices are going down. You have correctly forecast the absolute need for lead acid batteries and have told everyone that the future market is going to grow by 300%. If they haven't listened yet and studied your value analysis of the companies then they probably will miss this entire run up. Thanks for the heads up on Axion and the other part of my battery portfolio.
    I look forward to your new insights on power storage.
    Aug 05 04:05 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Futurist, thanks for the kind words. I try to do a good job on these articles because it's ultimately a practice development tool to showcase my verbal and analytical skills while hopefully helping people be better investors. If I can accomplish all those goals, it's worth the effort.
    Aug 05 04:17 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Don, whether you believe me or not, I'm sorry to hear you didn't get any funding. I was going to ask if you applied, but thought you might have thought I was trying to take a cheap shot or something. I was surprised at the limited group that actually got the funding in the cell, battery and materials manufacturing category. I would have thought there would have been about 20 companies in there in an attempt to spread the odds. The fact remains (and much what I believe has been the Axion game plan) keep your nose to the grind stone and keep putting out a quality product. The world may yet beat a path to your door.


    On Aug 05 03:43 PM Don Harmon wrote:

    > Now that the much anticipated Battery Awards have been announced,
    > we can all get on with our lives. Back to work as usual for those
    > of us who didn't get thrown a bone from the Government, and the focus
    > moving forward will be on which companies actually have a product
    > to bring to market, and which do not.
    >
    Aug 05 04:17 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    John, you have WAY to much class to be doing this.


    On Aug 05 04:17 PM John Petersen wrote:

    > Futurist, thanks for the kind words. I try to do a good job on these
    > articles because it's ultimately a practice development tool to showcase
    > my verbal and analytical skills while hopefully helping people be
    > better investors. If I can accomplish all those goals, it's worth
    > the effort.
    Aug 05 04:19 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    battman: Two great comments!
    Aug 05 04:35 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    You, too, Don!
    Aug 05 04:36 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Battman, thanks and I do believe you. Yes, we were one of 160 companies that no one will ever know about that spent many long hours putting together a Grant Proposal. However, the money goes to the biggest and the best who can afford to hire lobbyists and the small guys get bypassed which is what you often find in a Government run program. Please don't think we are "bitter" here, but we do think that the DOE owes all the small (and some not so small) companies who took a shot here to be recognized for their efforts.

    Unfortunately this probably isn't part of their plan even though Obama promised "transparency" as one of his key campaing platforms?
    Aug 05 04:55 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Don you better be careful, you said the money goes to the biggest and the best. You know Axion got money, so by default, Axion is one of the biggest and best?!?!?!?! Never thought I would hear that from you.

    I think the idea behind the plan obviously makes a lot of sense as the US needs to do something to create not just short term jobs, but a real future. If they can get this going and create good paying US jobs, that's a step in the right direction.


    On Aug 05 04:55 PM Don Harmon wrote:

    > Battman, thanks and I do believe you. Yes, we were one of 160 companies
    > that no one will ever know about that spent many long hours putting
    > together a Grant Proposal. However, the money goes to the biggest
    > and the best who can afford to hire lobbyists and the small guys
    > get bypassed which is what you often find in a Government run program.
    > Please don't think we are "bitter" here, but we do think that the
    > DOE owes all the small (and some not so small) companies who took
    > a shot here to be recognized for their efforts.
    >
    > Unfortunately this probably isn't part of their plan even though
    > Obama promised "transparency" as one of his key campaing platforms?
    >
    Aug 05 05:12 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Don, we were another one that was "left behind." I looked at the list and they almost seemed as PR-based as they were merit-based. What surprised me was that a look at the list shows a number of companies that aren't actually American when you look at who is at the very top of the power structure, that is.

    We aren't bitter here either (well, maybe I am a little, but that's my ultracompetative streak shining through). Now the race is on to see if any of the "big 9" come through. I see 4, maybe 5 names on that list that I have faith in. The others, not so much.

    However, out of the $2 billion, we did seem to give ~$250 million back to ourselves, the taxpayers (awards to GM and Chrysler). So in a way we all won...


    On Aug 05 04:55 PM Don Harmon wrote:

    > Battman, thanks and I do believe you. Yes, we were one of 160 companies
    > that no one will ever know about that spent many long hours putting
    > together a Grant Proposal. However, the money goes to the biggest
    > and the best who can afford to hire lobbyists and the small guys
    > get bypassed which is what you often find in a Government run program.
    > Please don't think we are "bitter" here, but we do think that the
    > DOE owes all the small (and some not so small) companies who took
    > a shot here to be recognized for their efforts.
    >
    > Unfortunately this probably isn't part of their plan even though
    > Obama promised "transparency" as one of his key campaing platforms?
    >
    Aug 05 05:37 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Battman, I know I said that and what I meant was the biggest companies (Axion is allied with Exide and East Penn) which are well known long time big companies. Just as JCI and SAFT are long time well established companies - also probably with no issues raising matching funds! Kokum squeeked in under the flag of Dupont, which shows how the decisions were allocated. If you weren't already a major force in the battery business, you basically were passed over.

    There isn't a single example of a "start-up" having been awarded one of these grants that I can see? At least in the Cell Manufacturing category, anyway.

    Since this is where LiFeBATT is concerned, I find it a bit ironic that Obama actually told people in his town hall meetings talking to small business owners to "show us that you have a great new idea and this government will help you realize your goals to make it happen" (paraphrased).

    Reality is more like show us how long you have failed to produce a great new idea and we will fund you to come up with one! In other words this whole program IMHO was rigged from the start in favor of the big players and the small start-ups really never had a shot. So much for "transparency" in this new administration.

    Before you respond, look at the results of this exercise in spending $ 2.5 Billion dollars of our taxpayer dollars. Who are the real beneficiaries of these grants? What have they done lately to demonstrate that they have a viable product that far surpasses what the small start-ups also have?

    Of course, many of you don't know what the small star-ups have because the government won't back them like they will a long-established BIG name with deep pockets and an army of lobbyists.

    Better go now before I really start to go off my perch.....lol.


    Aug 05 05:39 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Don,
    Don't sound so down. It's time to get it together and put up a secondary .... soon. These grants will draw the attention of the GS & MS crowd who will start analysis of those left behind.
    Aug 05 06:00 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    DRich, I don't want to guess what GS & MS means????? I am sure you are right though!
    Aug 05 06:06 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Don,
    I'm sorry for not spelling out, to clarify GS (Goldman Sachs, not so much the corp. but the clientele) and MS (Morgan Stanley). Both are big in the wealth management departments and though the trading desks won't pay much mind to the battery biz until either a major utility/OEM makes a big buy or the wealth departments demand in on the action from client interest. An uptick in sector revenues of 10% or better over, let's say, the next 2 or 3 quarters with the accompanying rise of the stocks to the $5-6 level (as thin as the share numbers are...I don't see that as a problem). Bingo. I'd better be close to marketable product & ready to rock & roll.
    I know your company, but not in great detail. It's there but not on the radar screen, as "they" say. I see the short term winners as the ones that have the ability to ramp 100%- 200% in 24 months starting 2010 and the long term winners as those that not only ramp, but deliver a 5 year product yield in the 70% or greater range (kind of depends on who your customer is, industrial will want better, consumers have lower expectations).
    Aug 05 06:27 PM | Link | Reply
  •  

    DRich, Thanks I would have guessed wrong since my focus is not on investing but looking for investors! I guess the good thing is we are already close to a "plug & play" marketable product now with the ability to ramp up production 100% - 200% in 12 months. Our primary focus at the moment is establishing an excellent QC component and making our product truly "bulletproof" in it's intended application markets.

    However, our cell production will now unfortunately have to stay in Asia since we didn't get the grant to build a pilot mfg. plant here in the U.S. Well so be it then, but we will still be doing all battery pack assembly and all sales and marketing here - so we are ready to rock & roll now!

    Thanks for the encouragement.
    Aug 05 06:40 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Don,
    This will be my last post on this since it's off topic. I don't want to appear rude to the site.

    I wish you could find your way to be truly an American company, but I understand since my manufacturing is mostly in Asia also. I'm glad you feel ready. But I doubt it. Looking for investors? Ummmm, Not ready for primetime... you've heard the expression "Build a better mousetrap...etc.

    I am a consumer of batteries, so I love this sector but it's still just a hobby category for investing. People with real money need to be made aware that power storage is good for something more than cellphones, starters and flashlight. Unfortunately, that is where the thought process is. Those that haven't published third party performance/durability data, carved out a profitable niche, drawn the attention of a deep pocketed benefactor or a brokerage analyst will face an uphill battle for growth. I'm delighted with these grants for the attention it will draw because the money is minuscule & inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.

    Having been there, where units out the door suddenly go from 10K-100k to 2M to customers that expect better than 0.25% failure rates during years of service, is a leap. There's a place for all in this space so carve yours out and hold on. Good Luck
    Aug 05 07:25 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    It will be interesting to see how the various grant recipients raise the capital they need for their 50% matching funds.

    Ener1 (HEV) has almost no cash, and must raise half of the $118.5m. Of course they have their Russian oligarch owner, Boris Zingarevich, who could front them some dough (through his Virgin Island's based holding company). Boris has ties to Vladimir and Dmitry, so maybe he'll hit them up for some rubles! Nyet?

    UQM (UQM) which I mentioned here on June 11 when it was under $2.50 per share, has filed a 15m share shelf offering. You guys have more than doubled your money now on my glowing recommend of them right? This could spell dilution to UQM holders, or it could cement a relationship with a big OEM. Remember that somebody has requested a 200,000 unit per year supply quote from them (their recent announcement with Coda was for only 20,000 over 2 years). Coda has Hank Paulson to work with their Chinese battery supplier (Lishen, one of the world's largest).

    So it's the Russkies vs the Chinese Capitalist Party! Energy *independence* here we come! How ironic.
    Aug 05 07:27 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Well, once again I'm waving the flag for the silent giant, EnerSys. Up until two or three days ago I couldn't see how EnerSys could miss on these grants. They have the money for matching funds. They invest a lot in the R & D. In addition to their lead acid batteries, they manufacture lithium and nickel batteries. And they have a great global footprint. But the truth is, they aren't a company that is competing in the auto battery business anyway, which is what this $2 billion + federal grant program is focused on.

    I won't think twice about continuing to hold my shares of EnerSys because nothing's changed, as far as they're concerned. They're a well run battery company with good products who have their niche(s). Though I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little disappointed, but their earnings report today was very strong, beating estimates by $0.08, so I'm happy. And frankly they may not have even submitted a proposal since their focus, at this point anyway, is not automotive batteries. Plus, I sincerely believe that this grant program will benefit the entire industry, and more so because of the publicity than the money. The reason I think the publicity is so important is not just about advertising, but because it will educate the public about how absolutely critical the battery industry will become as we journey forth into our now-future green tech revolution.

    So now, as Don says, we can get back to the more pertinent grind where things really matter. But don't forget, Christmas comes again in, I believe, November when Uncle Sam doles out grants and loans for smart grid energy storage. I think EnerSys has a better shot at that, though no guarantees. What do you think, John? And I hope you will focus a few more of your articles on that topic.

    Congratulations to all the companies, their associates and their investors, that were awarded grant money. Everyone involved in this industry will benefit from today. May the recipients spend it wisely.
    Aug 05 07:56 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Don, of course you know I was joking about Axion being the biggest and best (at least as of right now).

    But as a "regular guy", you would have to think the government is taking the approach that makes the most sense. First, give money to the people who have already established they can run a business in the desired sector, then with what's left over, give money to some really good ideas that have connections to people who can run the business, because in either case, you ultimately have to know how to run the business because the objective is to create a "home grown" industry that will create jobs for a generation.
    The same can be said (and is said ad nauseum) by the li-ion fans when an OEM teams up with a battery company. All of a sudden that company has credbility, share price goes up, visibility goes up, just because of their new alliance. Why should the government be any different.
    Not saying it is fair, but as a business owner, if I need something done, I generally call a company with a track record before I call a start up.
    Having said that, like I said earlier, the government should have allocated maybe 100 - 200 mill or so for start ups. You can't tell me none of the start ups aren't worth giving a shot. Spread it out a bit more and increase the odds.

    Question for you though, of the lithium guys who did get money, any thoughts?

    On Aug 05 05:39 PM Don Harmon wrote:

    > Battman, I know I said that and what I meant was the biggest companies
    > (Axion is allied with Exide and East Penn) which are well known long
    > time big companies. Just as JCI and SAFT are long time well established
    > companies -
    Aug 05 08:12 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Sorry if I missed this part but: was the entirety of the government's planned grants and loans to the battery industry doled out today?

    I'm just wondering if it is possible that some of the energy storage companies that did not receive grants today may yet be recipients in the future.
    Aug 05 08:41 PM | Link | Reply
  •  

    Actually marketquant, Ener1 will have to match the Gov. funds, so they need $118 M. of their own money or investors money to qualify for the grant.


    On Aug 05 07:27 PM marketquant wrote:

    > It will be interesting to see how the various grant recipients raise
    > the capital they need for their 50% matching funds.
    >
    > Ener1 (seekingalpha.com/symbo...) has almost no cash, and
    > must raise half of the $118.5m. Of course they have their Russian
    > oligarch owner, Boris Zingarevich, who could front them some dough
    > (through his Virgin Island's based holding company). Boris has ties
    > to Vladimir and Dmitry, so maybe he'll hit them up for some rubles!
    > Nyet?
    >
    > UQM (seekingalpha.com/symbo...) which I mentioned here on
    > June 11 when it was under $2.50 per share, has filed a 15m share
    > shelf offering. You guys have more than doubled your money now on
    > my glowing recommend of them right? This could spell dilution to
    > UQM holders, or it could cement a relationship with a big OEM. Remember
    > that somebody has requested a 200,000 unit per year supply quote
    > from them (their recent announcement with Coda was for only 20,000
    > over 2 years). Coda has Hank Paulson to work with their Chinese battery
    > supplier (Lishen, one of the world's largest).
    >
    > So it's the Russkies vs the Chinese Capitalist Party! Energy *independence*
    > here we come! How ironic.
    Aug 05 09:34 PM | Link | Reply
  •  

    Of the lithium guys who got the money? Johnson Controls got the most (and they didn't need it) just go down the list and it's apparent from there:

    A123 - big GE funding recipient.
    Dow/ Kokam - Korean partnership.
    Compact Power - Korean parntership.
    EnerDel - Heavily tied into Nissan
    SAFT - French partnership with JCI

    That's where the lithium funding went since you asked..



    On Aug 05 08:12 PM battman wrote:

    > Don, of course you know I was joking about Axion being the biggest
    > and best (at least as of right now).
    >
    > But as a "regular guy", you would have to think the government is
    > taking the approach that makes the most sense. First, give money
    > to the people who have already established they can run a business
    > in the desired sector, then with what's left over, give money to
    > some really good ideas that have connections to people who can run
    > the business, because in either case, you ultimately have to know
    > how to run the business because the objective is to create a "home
    > grown" industry that will create jobs for a generation.
    > The same can be said (and is said ad nauseum) by the li-ion fans
    > when an OEM teams up with a battery company. All of a sudden that
    > company has credbility, share price goes up, visibility goes up,
    > just because of their new alliance. Why should the government be
    > any different.
    > Not saying it is fair, but as a business owner, if I need something
    > done, I generally call a company with a track record before I call
    > a start up.
    > Having said that, like I said earlier, the government should have
    > allocated maybe 100 - 200 mill or so for start ups. You can't tell
    > me none of the start ups aren't worth giving a shot. Spread it out
    > a bit more and increase the odds.
    >
    > Question for you though, of the lithium guys who did get money, any
    > thoughts?
    >
    > On Aug 05 05:39 PM Don Harmon wrote:
    Aug 05 09:53 PM | Link | Reply
  •  

    I think I am right about this - today was the big bang. No more to be announced! At least for the Battery sector.


    On Aug 05 08:41 PM D. McHattie wrote:

    > Sorry if I missed this part but: was the entirety of the government's
    > planned grants and loans to the battery industry doled out today?
    >
    >
    > I'm just wondering if it is possible that some of the energy storage
    > companies that did not receive grants today may yet be recipients
    > in the future.
    Aug 05 09:55 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    What's your definition of "truly American?" See my previous post for what I think of that... JCI is the most "American" company. All the other either manufacture overseas or their parent company (with the exception of the Dow portion of Dow/Kokam) is overseas. And that didn't hold for the battery companies only. A number of the materials companies fall in the same boat. I think that I, personally, was most surprised by both JCI and Saft getting a piece of the action.


    On Aug 05 07:25 PM DRich wrote:

    > Don,
    > This will be my last post on this since it's off topic. I don't want
    > to appear rude to the site.
    >
    > I wish you could find your way to be truly an American company, but
    > I understand since my manufacturing is mostly in Asia also. I'm glad
    > you feel ready. But I doubt it. Looking for investors? Ummmm, Not
    > ready for primetime... you've heard the expression "Build a better
    > mousetrap...etc.
    >
    > I am a consumer of batteries, so I love this sector but it's still
    > just a hobby category for investing. People with real money need
    > to be made aware that power storage is good for something more than
    > cellphones, starters and flashlight. Unfortunately, that is where
    > the thought process is. Those that haven't published third party
    > performance/durability data, carved out a profitable niche, drawn
    > the attention of a deep pocketed benefactor or a brokerage analyst
    > will face an uphill battle for growth. I'm delighted with these grants
    > for the attention it will draw because the money is minuscule &
    > inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.
    >
    > Having been there, where units out the door suddenly go from 10K-100k
    > to 2M to customers that expect better than 0.25% failure rates during
    > years of service, is a leap. There's a place for all in this space
    > so carve yours out and hold on. Good Luck
    Aug 05 11:20 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Personally, I think that the JCI/Saft venture is the most likely to succeed. God, I just sounded like a high school graduation... Saft is a powerhouse in the military and aerospace markets.


    On Aug 05 08:12 PM battman wrote:

    > Question for you though, of the lithium guys who did get money, any
    > thoughts?
    >
    > On Aug 05 05:39 PM Don Harmon wrote:
    Aug 05 11:24 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    MRTTF, SAFT is the highest of all in terms of price for what they offer which makes me wonder how they will fare in the EV world? Military and aerospace markets are not even close to the market these funds are supposed to help develop.
    Aug 05 11:44 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    All, the grants (with the exception of Ener1) went to solid balance sheets and while Axion was included, the award went to "Exide with Axion," which essentially makes Axion a junior partner. It's better than nothing, but like Don, I would have preferred a broader base of smaller entrepreneurial companies because that's where I believe the important innovation will come from.

    For over a year I've been pounding the table about the A123 IPO being a sea-change event and it will be. To lock down yesterday's grant award they'll have to increase their deal size by $250 million to cover the matching funds; so I have to imagine that the offering total will be well north of $500 million.In other words, A123 is going to be a big important deal.

    Now let's set the way back machine to a different era. In August of 1995, there were no public internet companies when Netscape did its IPO. The predicted price was $14, the offering went off at $18 and the stock ran to $75 on the first day. From that day forward the rush was on and every investment banker and venture capitalist in the country was out beating the bushes for the next Netscape. I couldn't even begin to list the number of major companies that made their debuts over the next 18 months. Once the A123 offering goes off, I expect the same thing to happen in the energy storage sector. These things are never isolated events. They always come in waves.

    One of the toughest things for any small company to do is develop the and organize the sheer mass of industry information, business plan materials and supporting data required for a grant application or financing. Once that work is done, however, it doesn't spoil or go stale and it's an excellent foundation document that can be sent out immediately whenever somebody asks "tell me about your company." I can guarantee that the wall street and venture capital leaders are already sending in FOA requests for the applications that were not accepted for this round of grants and the next tier of energy storage players are already being identified.

    We live in an odd world, there is always far more money looking for a good home than there are good homes.
    Aug 06 02:07 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Don, I am not too familiar with their pricing. I am, however, familiar with their cell and pack level performance. They are, after all, one of our big competitors in a couple of areas. I guess what I meant is that based on their ability to meet a number of the military requirements (some of which are more difficult to pass than for the HEV/EV market), they should be in good shape. Of course, that could be why they teamed up with JCI...


    On Aug 05 11:44 PM Don Harmon wrote:

    > MRTTF, SAFT is the highest of all in terms of price for what they
    > offer which makes me wonder how they will fare in the EV world? Military
    > and aerospace markets are not even close to the market these funds
    > are supposed to help develop.
    Aug 06 02:41 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    I wonder what DRich meant when he said "customers expect a better than 0.25% failure rates during years of service"? Does he mean that they expect a greater rate of failure than one in 400? I have not found either OE or replacement vehicle batteries to be that good. With all of the sophisticated electronics and monitoring systems in new cars, a marginal battery can set codes and do all sorts of mischief that a fully charged quality unit will not experience.
    Aug 06 08:24 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Don

    Sorry to read that the small guys missed out, it is from many blossoms (small companies) that fruit come, but government tends not to give money to small companies, they like large, grand, big picture stuff. I'm sure the application/ grant submission must have taken a lot of energy, cost, thought and hope.
    Aug 06 09:15 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    renim, indeed it did and thank you for the kind words. My sentiments exactly - you hear it given lip-service all the time by our President and our politicians, about how small businesses provide over 70% of all new jobs ,....blah blah blah!

    However when the opportunity comes along (which is extremely rare) it's always the usual suspects who get the largesse. Funny how that works. I salute all the small guys who tried!
    Aug 06 12:42 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    tireman63, I don't know where you get your batteries from or where your point of QC is in the production line, but from my point of view, it's the end of the fabrication line for the OEM. At that point a failure rate of 1 in 400 is a disaster me and not well tolerated by my custormer.

    A 1 in 400 failure rate might be tolerated by on product in the end-user's hands close to design end-of-life, but bring that timeline in and I'll have to find a replacement customer quicker than I would want.
    Aug 06 01:44 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    From our perspective anything less than 1:10,000 would be an issue.
    Aug 07 11:51 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    I have to agree that 1:10000 is the absolute minimum. This is totally feasible. If Sanyo or Panasonic can produce on the order of tens of millions of cells per year and have little to no failures (I mean real failures, not cells that die either), then high quality is feasible.


    On Aug 07 11:51 AM Don Harmon wrote:

    > From our perspective anything less than 1:10,000 would be an issue.
    Aug 07 07:08 PM | Link | Reply
  •  

    I have been told cell failure rates of 1:10,000 right up to 1:250,000 ! So our QC has to be very strict.
    Aug 07 07:16 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    DRich, Tireman63 has been a regular commenter for a long time and spent years running a retail tire and battery sales and service company in Texas. It's not clear whether he's retired or one of those guys that just loves what he does. In any event, his 1 in 400 comment relates to QC experience with lead-acid SLI batteries, not packs that include several hundred batteries each.
    Aug 08 03:02 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    John,
    I meant no offense. My company ships battery control devices (some complete with multiple batt -packs installed) and over the years the failure rate once in end-users hands is probably 1:500k initial and 1:10k @ 3-5 years out. The overwhelming reason for end-user failure has been improper usage or extreme environmental condition, but I look at a warehouse filled with manufacturing line failures that probably pushes 1:1k as shipped by the factory.

    My point to Don was that the ramp from small batch fabrication to, sometimes mind blowing, large batch fabrication is a great leap that I can only hope he is truly ready for. Scaling from pilot line to commercial production is a monumental task. The smaller the lot size the better the chance of perfection. Then comes compressed time lines, margin squeeze, tight spec tolerancing, material expediting and the headache list goes on.
    Aug 08 09:08 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    We are very similar out here. There are QC checks done at nearly every step of production, some steps have several. That includes parts that are assembled in-house as well as QC inspection of any incoming parts. The final products then have very tight specs that have to be met (weight, dimensions, etc) before they can be released.


    On Aug 07 07:16 PM Don Harmon wrote:

    >
    > I have been told cell failure rates of 1:10,000 right up to 1:250,000
    > ! So our QC has to be very strict.
    Aug 08 11:51 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    DRich, there was certainly no offense taken. It's just that Tireman only shows up once in a while and I thought you deserved an answer about where his comments were coming from. As for the rest, you're singing from my hymnal. My experience with technology based businesses is that it's far easier to get great results from prototypes than it is to do the industrial and process engineering necessary to go into production at rates of millions of units per year. If we take Axion as an example, the prototypes were spectacular performers in 2003. The huge bulk of the work over the last five years has focused on industrial engineering and manufacturing process development. Science is easy. Quality manufacturing is another story altogether.

    MRTTF if the work to develop reliable cells in larger formats is successful, hopefully the QC job will get a bit easier. But as long as packs use hundreds of cells and each cell can be a potential failure point, ultra-tight QC will be essential.
    Aug 08 04:41 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    John, from what I have seen, the QC for a large format cell is substantially harder than for smaller cells, but the pack-level QC is the opposite. This also makes the performance screening of the smaller cells critical.

    I think that this will be the case for a substantial (5-10 years) period of time. By that point, the cell production should be on the order of the large 18650 producers (Sanyo, Panasonic, Sony, etc), i.e. 8 or 10 guys running a gigantic factory and producing hundreds of thousands, if not millions of cells daily.


    On Aug 08 04:41 PM John Petersen wrote:

    > MRTTF if the work to develop reliable cells in larger formats is
    > successful, hopefully the QC job will get a bit easier. But as long
    > as packs use hundreds of cells and each cell can be a potential failure
    > point, ultra-tight QC will be essential.
    Aug 09 11:18 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    The fact that "battery awards" from the Feds could elicit such excitement in the investment community as evidenced by the huge number of comments here is a testament to the sickness of the US economy. What happens when the "battery award" money is spent on imaginary projects and the recipients have to return to the marketplace for their cash flow?
    Aug 16 11:18 AM | Link | Reply
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    secmaven, you can bet your bottom dollar that the projects will be quite real because the Federal money won't move unless the grant recipients can show their matching funds. That really is the beauty of the ARRA structure, it gives the market the ultimate trump card to decide whether a particular project is worthwhile. To the extent that grants have been allocated to small companies that don't have big balance sheets, they are either in the market looking for money right now or they will be shortly.

    I'll refrain from predicting whether the planned factories will result in profitable businesses, but the factories will be built and products will be brought to market.
    Aug 16 11:29 AM | Link | Reply