China Urges Citizens to Buy Gold and Silver 116 comments
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People in North America and Europe are used to seeing plenty of advertisements for gold and silver – from opportunists urging people to get rid of their “useless” gold and silver for cash! Clearly this is a bullish indicator for the market, as these companies wouldn't be spending large amounts of advertising dollars to hype “scrap” sales, and then even more money buying the metals if they didn't see the opportunity for big profits.
It turns out that there is also “advertising” for gold and silver in China, too. The big difference here is that it is China's government which is advertising the “opportunities” in gold and silver and it is urging the Chinese people to buy gold and silver.
An article from mining web-site, Mineweb quotes a program which appears on China's largest (state-owned) television company, promoting bullion-buying in general, but stressing that silver is currently the best value for investors (no surprise to regular readers):
China has introduced its first ever investment opportunity for silver bullion. The bars are available in 500g, 1kg, 2kg and 5kg with a purity of 99.9%. Figures show that gold was fifty times more expensive in 2007 but now that figure has reached over seventy times. Analysts say that silver has been undervalued in recent years. They add that the metal is the right investment for individual investors and could be a good way to cash in.
It is only in the last three years that the Chinese government significantly relaxed the rules for precious metals buying for its citizens. Given that the Chinese people (like most of Asia) already had a greater appetite for gold and silver than people in most Western nations, the explicit urging by the government itself for people to load up on bullion clearly implies the expectation of a strong future for precious metals. With a population greater than 20% of the world's total and an abundance of savings, this could easily become a self-fulfilling prophecy – especially given the tiny size of the precious metals market, relative to many other commodities.
It is also clear that China is literally “putting its money where its mouth is.” China has devoted an enormous amount of resources building up its domestic gold mining industry, soaring to #1 in the world this decade, and it recently stunned the world with the announcement of a huge increase in its official, national holdings (see “China now has 5th largest gold reserves”).
China's gold reserves jumped by 76% from its last announcement in 2002 – up to 1,054 tons. Given that official government purchases on the open market are recorded and announced, this means that rather than buying all that gold openly on the market (which would have driven up the price while they were buying) China has been accumulating gold surreptitiously, through buying up its domestic production – strongly suggesting that ramping-up its gold production was part of a long-term strategic plan to become one of the world's largest (if not the largest) holder of gold among governments.
As I have written previously, there appear to be two, related goals in this strategy. Most-obviously, the Chinese government is now spending its U.S. dollar-holdings faster than it is accumulating them. This is no surprise, given the increasing rhetoric (and increasing intensity) expressing concern about the reckless fiscal policies of the U.S. government – and its worries over the future value of its vast accumulation of U.S. dollar-based debt.
The second goal which the Chinese government appears to be moving toward is having its own currency, the renminbi, replace the U.S. dollar as the global reserve currency. There have simply been too many actions on this front to list them all, however some of the more significant initiatives are bilateral trade agreements (which exclude the use of the U.S. dollar), currency swaps with its trading partner (which substitute the renminbi in bilateral trade), and authorizing its principal, coastal exporting cities to begin conducting most or all of their trade using renminbi.
These initiatives are entirely separate from the buying-spree the Chinese government has been engaging in, dumping U.S. dollars for a vast assortment of “hard assets” - primarily commodities and commodity-producers.
As I wrote a week ago, in “Gold Wars, Part II: The Empire Strikes Back”, both the move by China to replace the U.S. dollar and its big push to accumulate large gold reserves are clearly an economic threat to the United States. It is only the reserve currency status of the U.S. dollar which has kept its value grossly inflated relative to its actual worth and kept U.S. borrowing costs artificially low.
A plunge by the U.S. dollar to its real value (somewhere not far above zero) would unleash crippling inflation in the U.S. (if not actual hyperinflation), while a rise in borrowing costs would strangle its crippled economy. Given that suppressing the price of gold has been a principal strategy by Western bankers to keep the dollar artificially propped up, China's zeal for gold (and silver) is also strongly against U.S. interests.
Whether the official urging by the Chinese government for its citizens to buy precious metals is merely prudent, “fatherly” advise to its citizens, or part of a somewhat more sinister campaign the result will be the same: soaring precious metals prices indefinitely into the future.
With gold and silver having just broken-out above their summer trading ranges (the weakest season of the year for the precious metals market), precious metals appear poised for spectacular runs this fall, as I suggested a month ago (see “Two short-term scenarios for Gold Market”). Those who have continued waiting for cheaper prices have been shut out of this market (notably the price-conscious buyers in India), and the window for buying at current, bargain prices appears to be closing quickly.
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This article has 116 comments:
Here's a thought: Perhaps China agreed, during its talks with US officials during the height of the financial crisis, not to enter the market and buy gold, as this would harm the West. It seems that the US would have been certain to request this--and it would have been hard for China to say No without looking like an irresponsible global citizen and G20 member.
But of course gold acquisition is in China's interest, so what it's seemingly done to promote that interest has been to work around the letter of the law by acquiring its own gold production, encouraging its citizens to acquire PMs (good for the state, indirectly), encouraging Hong Kong to set up a bullion bank, expanding its own gold mining, and calling for a currency based on a basket that would, presumably, include gold. In the future perhaps it will invest in foreign gold miners and/or encourage its proxies to do so.
I would tend to discount the state's role as a purveyor of fatherly advice; nearer term, supporting gold prices multiplies the value of its bullion stock and, depending upon how the program is executed, could lead significant appreciation thereby creating a wealth effect that could lead to higher consumer spending.
The one thing I admire about the Chinese is their ability to rank order their priorities and, presently, their desire is to undertake structural reform and encourage greater consumer involvement in their economy. Over the long-run, the Chinese will need to expand healthcare, a range of social services and improve retirement plans to encourage its citizens to spend. Until this day comes, though, a couple of asset bubbles here and there may underwrite improved consumer spending.
By "medieval" I mean, a very weak social contract in which "wealth" was only what you could touch: i.e. (a) farmland, (b) livestock, or if you could get hold of it, (c) specie, preferably compact enough to carry or hide.
It is only a very strong social contract, with enforceable contracts, that allows "wealth" to be vested in pieces of paper.
best prices and solid company
> Load up on those American gold eagles. If you want to know where
> to find them in size, check with the experts at millenniummetals.net.
If there is to be a major catastrophe in the world, then gold and silver will be of great value!
It doesn't hurt to own some gold and silver to hedge yourself!
And yes i have pick up on that, where company are buying gold! Something is up, and they know it. I would suggest not sell them anything for some devaluating dollar!
China is doing the prudent thing: informing their citizens that they should reduce their dollar holdings now while it is still accepted as legal tender by the world’s central bankers.
For the last several years, Russia government leaders have been encouraging their citizens to exchange their dollar holdings for gold; In America and Canada, commentators, such as you, have been telling investors for years and years to convert as much dollars as possible to gold and silver as this is the true currency and the only currency that can withstand the ravages of inflation.
In my view, China is rather late to the game in recognizing gold and silver as a currency, but not too late in warning their citizens to convert their dollars and/or other currencies into gold and silver.
On Sep 04 09:28 AM ObjectiveFunction wrote:
> Not to be too condescending -- I am a great admirer of the Chinese
> people and civilisation, though not of their governments, present
> or past -- but in many ways Chinese society is still quite medieval
> in its core instincts, for all their passion for technology and education.
> And given the last 400 years, can you blame them?
>
> By "medieval" I mean, a very weak social contract in which "wealth"
> was only what you could touch: i.e. (a) farmland, (b) livestock,
> or if you could get hold of it, (c) specie, preferably compact enough
> to carry or hide.
>
> It is only a very strong social contract, with enforceable contracts,
> that allows "wealth" to be vested in pieces of paper.
Why can't they just be happy with paper?
That will leave US with all its paper Silver (future,swaps, derivatives ,etc) ticking bomb !!
The problem is going to be future supply for India and US .
Why does China have to sell its silver with a US's manipulate low price ??? They preferred to hold it and sell it to their people !
Push your gold agenda somewhere else.
SHARK
On Sep 04 01:31 PM dshark wrote:
> Yeah your article is not to self serving coming from a guys who has
> an interest in selling gold. No bias what so ever! Who would ever
> take what you have to say about gold as serious? Also the dollar
> should be at a value "somewhere not far above zero". Sounds like
> you have a complex because your country is stuck being a pint sized
> half brother to one of the greatest countries in the world!
>
> Push your gold agenda somewhere else.
>
> SHARK
go broke!
Shark
On Sep 04 01:47 PM Tony Daltorio wrote:
> Any wonder that the US is going down the tubes when many of my fellow
> Americans think like this.
(exclusively for the posters above who are uneducated about China)
China doesn't give a twit about the US. China couldn't care less what the financial wizzards in the US do. Why? IMHO China has the US right by the short hairs. THEY are in the drivers seat. They will take the US where IT wants to. The yuan (renmindi) will be firmly entrenched as the worlds reserve currency within the next decade. Oh, as for China acting like a westerner would like them to, you know, with morals, high standards, etc, yeah right, when donkeys fly! Hey, don't expect something of the Chinese that Americans spend their waking hours trying to avoid like the plague!
....GREAT article, Jeff!
Step #1 is to rid itself of as much of its U.S. dollar-related holdings as possible. The U.S. market-pumpers conveniently overlook the fact that not only has China DRASTICALLY reduced its purchases of any/every kind of U.S. dollar-denominated assets, but they are REDUCING their holdings (on a net basis) by ten's of billions of dollars per month.
Once they are satisfied with the amount of those holdings they have been able to liquidate (i.e. off-load onto other suckers), they will end any efforts on their part to continue to prop-up the dollar - and at that point the dollar-peg HAS TO go.
Remaining linked to the USD when it starts it big plunge means crippling inflation for ANY country pegged to the dollar - although that list continues to get shorter and shorter.
On Sep 04 01:53 PM Dave Wrixon wrote:
> This seems to me to point one thing and one thing only and that is
> the removal of the Currency Peg. Clearly holding a boat load of dollars
> whilst doing so, whilst not suicidal would certainly be detrimental.
> Gold would certainly provide their economy with enough ballast to
> weather the storm. No doubt they at some point they will want their
> loans to the US either repaid in their own currency or possibly bullion.
> Of course storing up Gold would also enable them to suppress the
> price of Gold, just as the US is pushed to fire sale of assets. It
> is not difficult to see the potential for Economic Warfare, with
> the outcome almost a foregone conclusion, unless the US can secure
> a broad alliance. I guess much depends on whether Europe, Japan and
> the other BRICS consider that China will crap on them to the same
> degree as the US.
Further more I guess the communism aspect of their government doesn't seem to bother most of you cry babies that are calling for the downfall of the US. There people don't get a say in anything. They buy them off now while they can and that won't last forever.They are frantic to keep their growth rate in the double digits or otherwise face civil unrest.
Japan was the last country that was supposed to overtake the US back in the 80's, Didn't Happen? I have nothing against China and
I welcome all the people of the world into the economy to try and prosper and make things better. But when you have the author of this article with self serving interests saying the value of the dollar is "Not far from zero" I get tired of only the perma cry babies posting comments on these sites while the silent majority who are happy in the US ignore them. I need to break the silence once in while and put you Schiff'ites in place.
So If you whiners and complainers like China so much THEN LEAVE and go there. See how prosperous you feel over there.
WE WON'T MISS YOU!
SHARK
Sometimes though you just have to call them as you see them. Yes, the Chinese has a lower standard of living and little say in their government, but for years the U.S. has been moving in that direction as well. No one is cheering for that to happen; in point of fact, we are admonishing these developments.
We don't want to leave for China. But what we really don't want is for the Chinese political-economic model to overtake the U.S. Unfortunately, with every day it seems more and more likely.
Isn't the more likely explanation that the Chinese government funds are starting to run low because exports have collapsed, their domestic demand is down in the dumps like the rest of the world, and they want to bring it some of their own currency by selling part of their gold and silver holdings?
On Sep 04 03:50 PM Tony Petroski wrote:
> I take it this is an article once again speaking to the far-sightedness
> of the Chinese, possibly a fatherly concern on the part of the communist
> government for their people, as well as bullish news for the goldbugs.
>
>
> Isn't the more likely explanation that the Chinese government funds
> are starting to run low because exports have collapsed, their domestic
> demand is down in the dumps like the rest of the world, and they
> want to bring it some of their own currency by selling part of their
> gold and silver holdings?
Your response has sensible points and I agree that we need to be more responsible with our children's future. The problems we are facing right now while not permanent or insolvable are complex and involved. We were let run amuck for a little to long this time (see booms and busts below)
You have commentators saying we would be on the losing end of an economic war, Some commentators saying they need to teach their children Chinese so they can communicate with Chinese CEO's that will be running the world in the next decade (different post). The bull crap is endless. The author of this article peddles gold and more or less says our currency is worthless so people rush out and by bullion. He is peddling his view to pad his pocket. I may not be as disturbed by his thinking and reasoning if it were without ulterior motives, but it is not. He makes me ill!
There are hundreds of gripes I could make about the US and it's domestic, foreign, monetary and fiscal policies, but there are thousands of reason why it is still the best place in the world to live and do business. The costs of our running our legal, politic, social programs is enormous. Trying to make sure everyone is educated, protected, has running water and functioning sewers, and a powerful military to protect our citizens. Do you think the Chinese people have a fraction of this concern from their government. We need to remember everybody in Washington is there because of us. If they screw it up to much they won't be there after the next round of elections.
We are in a nation that is very susceptible to booms and busts because of the freedoms we have. Un-tethered It often leads to excess and gluttony before we get shot down back to earth and the cycle starts again. It is a healthy cleansing and allows for new ideas and industries to be born. After every crisis we have ever faced the ingenuity and tenacity of America as a nation has come back with a fury. We break new ground on new ways of doing business and advance our society. It sometimes blows up in our face but that is part of the risk mentality most Americans cherish.
Now ask yourselves would you trade places with the average Chinese person? Probably Not! Do your think the Chinese government would allow you to criticize them like these blogs and websites do America? No! (they block MISH's website for god's sake and he for the most part is harmless) They, Iran and every other dictatorship, Monarchy, Theocracy, totalitarian regimes, and communist countries shut down every mode of communication thinkable when a crisis hits. They usually own most for the papers and TV stations. They sensors millions of websites so there people think what they want them to think. How long do you think the people of China will put up that? What happens when they crack? How smooth running and prosperous is China going to be then. .... The perma cry babies feel like circumstances and situations
are going to be static when they are actually hyper dynamic.
My ranting and raving is done for now. But I am no longer going to silently read these article and wave off people's crap (your response respectfully not included in that category)
SHARK
25 Billion Reduction Of Treasury Holdings.
50 Billion "Special Drawing Rights" purchase from the IMF.
Now China encouraging citizens to buy precious metals.
All within three weeks time.
Big Finance Moves Slow - This Is Exceptionally Fast compared To The Normal "Rate Of Change".
The US is not "the world economy".
Who need what?
US need China or China need US?
China know what is going on in US!
"First State Bank of Flagstaff, Ariz., becomes the 89th bank failure of '09, at an estimated cost to the Deposit Insurance Fund of $47M." (Sept 4, 2009)
Now who's doing the right thing? China or US?
On Sep 04 11:31 PM PainfullyAware wrote:
> China Is Preparing.
>
> 25 Billion Reduction Of Treasury Holdings.
>
> 50 Billion "Special Drawing Rights" purchase from the IMF.
>
> Now China encouraging citizens to buy precious metals.
>
> All within three weeks time.
>
> Big Finance Moves Slow - This Is Exceptionally Fast compared To The
> Normal "Rate Of Change".
On Sep 04 03:20 PM Jeff Nielson wrote:
> Hi Dave. Totally agree that China is RAPIDLY preparing to ditch its
> U.S. dollar-peg completely.
>
> Step #1 is to rid itself of as much of its U.S. dollar-related holdings
> as possible. The U.S. market-pumpers conveniently overlook the fact
> that not only has China DRASTICALLY reduced its purchases of any/every
> kind of U.S. dollar-denominated assets, but they are REDUCING their
> holdings (on a net basis) by ten's of billions of dollars per month.
>
>
> Once they are satisfied with the amount of those holdings they have
> been able to liquidate (i.e. off-load onto other suckers), they will
> end any efforts on their part to continue to prop-up the dollar -
> and at that point the dollar-peg HAS TO go.
>
> Remaining linked to the USD when it starts it big plunge means crippling
> inflation for ANY country pegged to the dollar - although that list
> continues to get shorter and shorter.
The only 3 things propping up the Chinese economy are exports, government stimulus spending and irresponsible bank lending. The last two are short-term. The first one relies on strong US dollar and growing US economy.
* Chinese citizens SAVE, unlike Americans. They often save upwards of 30% of their pay. This creates a huge pool of savings for entrepreneurs to access.
* Chinese citizens have A LOT less debt than do we Americans. This means that if consumption is going to increase in their economy, they will have the wherewithall to buy things.
* There are 1.3 BILLION Chinese, four times as many as there are Americans. This means that they represent a far larger market for products and services than do we.
* The Chinese government doesn't engage in costly foreign wars or expensive vote-buying social spending to the degree that the US federal government does. This means that their citizens aren't being crushed under a mountain of public debt.
Yes, China has its problems, not the least of which is the fact that due to the One Child Policy, there will be FAR fewer workers supporting retirees than there would naturally have been. In twenty years, this will cause massive problems. For now, though, China has a lot of growth ahead.
On Sep 05 07:08 AM SELL OFF wrote:
> .
People put the Chinese circumstances in a realistic perspective and we are super wealthy in comparsion in almost every aspect.
SHARK
On Sep 05 07:12 AM Carlos Lam wrote:
> For all you China doubters, there are a few figures you need to keep
> in mind:
>
> * Chinese citizens SAVE, unlike Americans. They often save upwards
> of 30% of their pay. This creates a huge pool of savings for entrepreneurs
> to access.
>
> * Chinese citizens have A LOT less debt than do we Americans. This
> means that if consumption is going to increase in their economy,
> they will have the wherewithall to buy things.
>
> * There are 1.3 BILLION Chinese, four times as many as there are
> Americans. This means that they represent a far larger market for
> products and services than do we.
>
> * The Chinese government doesn't engage in costly foreign wars or
> expensive vote-buying social spending to the degree that the US federal
> government does. This means that their citizens aren't being crushed
> under a mountain of public debt.
>
> Yes, China has its problems, not the least of which is the fact that
> due to the One Child Policy, there will be FAR fewer workers supporting
> retirees than there would naturally have been. In twenty years, this
> will cause massive problems. For now, though, China has a lot of
> growth ahead.
While your at it why don't you rename your article
"Jeff Nielsen Urges Citizens to Buy Gold and Silver" (from him)
SHARK
On Sep 04 11:21 PM PainfullyAware wrote:
> dshark - What A Bunch Of EMOTIONAL CRAP WITH NO ACTUALITY !!!
>
> So, you would argue - much like our presidential elections; we should
> be happy with => The Lesser Of Two Evils => Instead of working toward
> something worth while?
>
> It is your - Lay Down And Accept What You Are Given Attitude - that
> has brought us to this point. Very Un-American.
>
> Yes, America Is Great => Not Because Of Its Financial System => Because
> Of Its People And Its ROOT OF GOVERNMENTAL STRUCTURE. The Financial
> System Is Corrupted - The People Are Just Beginning To Recognize
> The Scope. We Will See Where The Fulcrum Lies In The Coming Months.
>
>
> Either The Constitution Will Be Restored Or Subjugation Will Be Complete.
>
>
> The American People Have Not Been "Choosing Their Destiny" Since
> JFK Was "Disposed Of" (as well as the other social leaders of the
> time; Crazies May have gotten one - but could not have gotten many
> without collusion or deception).
>
> To Assume Benevolence Is Foolish.
>
> The Complexity Of Corruption Is Vast.
>
> The Mentally Minuscule Doom Us All.
> China doesn't really know how many people it has. A good majority
> oare dirt poor, have nothing and make nothing. They Save 30%. Sounds
> good on the surface. But when you figure in there average icome is
> $2000 to $3000 that amounts to a whopping $600 to $900 a year. OK
> I will go sell my moutain bike in the garage and put the cash in
> the bank. That will get me my savings for the year.
Yes, a great many Chinese are dirt poor, but -- again -- there are about 1.3 billion of them (those are the CIA figures, not the PRC's). More and more are entering the middle class each year.
The savings figures per capita may be small, but when pooled together they create a great source of capital for industry and entrepreneurs. We in America simply don't have that pool; we have to borrow from overseas. The Chinese have a DOMESTIC pool of savings to fund future production.
-Sun Tzu
To underestimate China, is to mortally wound yourself. The Chinese tend to think and plan in generational terms. Unlike the West that look no further than the next election! To match their 'game plan' the West must stop shooting themselves in the foot! The Chinese government and their people fully realize the gravity of the current global political, economical and social climate and act accordingly to their best interests. You may choose to be their friend and ride along to prosperity, or choose not to and get left behind. They do not seak animosity, their aim is harmony. The ying and yang. However, if you show animosity you will reap the whirlwind tenfold in return.
Remember we are dealing with a society that was inventing paper when our ancestors were crawling around caves! To underestimate China and the Chinese people is to do so at your peril.
I guess these gold bugs are like a cult as are the sino-philes. Gold is a "last resort" currency - which provides no interest or dividends. About 5% of my networth is in gold - a insurance not more.
Let us not underestimate the problems china will face - apart from its glossy image, it is basically a corrupt dictatorship with no rule of law. Once gross stalls (as it must) an implosion is all but gauranteed. Let us hope it is not an explosion.
1. Even if there were 500 billion Chinese a vast majority of them will never in our lifetime be able to buy gold at $1000/oz. Yes the Chinese government may be able to buy gold but we have no idea if what information comes out of China is true or why they say what they say.
2. Why would China not keep their currency pegged to the dollar? Being pegged to the dollar has served them well. The Chinese consumers will not be able to take up the slack of the US consumer in the near future. IMO China will do nothing to purposely sink the dollar or discourage an economic recovery in the West which is in their best interest.
A question for you goldbugs: why has gold not rocketed to $2000 already if it is the safe haven of financial chaos? How many of you out there are old enough to remember the gold bubbles of the past? Do you remember all the "companies" that, as now, came out of the wood work to sell you gold, buy your old silverware and jewelry, is this not a warning of an imminent collapse? We have seen in the recent past a narrow brush with financial armageddon yet gold was only able to broach $1000 and then fall back again into a trading range. Gold is a speculative commodity not money, those days are gone.
The ONLY reason why this didn't happened to us here in the US early is because of one reason: we print the reserve currency of the world. Everyone here on this board seems smart. Would you agree that there is no way we could have done what have been doing fro 2 decades if we didn't have the reverse currency?
The world has a role to play in this debacle. They all facilitated this, so the whole world will pay when this whole thing collapse. personally, i think we will go to gold and silver as money or some sort of currency basket.
We are going to have massive inflation in this country in a few years 2-3 in my opinion. We only need a quarter of all the currency outside our borders to flow back in to purchase real assets from us. I would watch for overseas gold/silver and oil buyers spending every dollar they can.
Unfortunately, devaluing the dollar doesn't instantly make things right. It takes years. in the meantime, we will see prices here rice way faster than salaries. Prepare for a difficult 5-10 years after this starts.
I don't know why this great nation abandoned savings /investing and production as a source of economic growth.
We have some the smartest, most innovative people on the planet but remember folks we are no longer the only smart innovative people on the earth.
I surely didn't know China was enouraging its citizens to buy precious metals. Interesting.
Thank you, Jeff, for the info.
Enjoy the holiday, folks!
While China's government recommended precious metals, in general, it SPECIFICALLY advised its citizens to buy silver - currently at $16/oz.
P.S. To respond to just ONE of the lies posted here by Dshark, we do not sell ANYTHING on our site (other than advertising). All of our content is free to all.
On Sep 05 01:05 PM anarchist wrote:
> I think SHARK's view is a bit obscured by patriotic fervor, however
> I have to agree with some of his/her points.
> 1. Even if there were 500 billion Chinese a vast majority of them
> will never in our lifetime be able to buy gold at $1000/oz. Yes
> the Chinese government may be able to buy gold but we have no idea
> if what information comes out of China is true or why they say what
> they say.
> 2. Why would China not keep their currency pegged to the dollar?
> Being pegged to the dollar has served them well. The Chinese consumers
> will not be able to take up the slack of the US consumer in the
> near future. IMO China will do nothing to purposely sink the dollar
> or discourage an economic recovery in the West which is in their
> best interest.
>
> A question for you goldbugs: why has gold not rocketed to $2000 already
> if it is the safe haven of financial chaos? How many of you out
> there are old enough to remember the gold bubbles of the past? Do
> you remember all the "companies" that, as now, came out of the wood
> work to sell you gold, buy your old silverware and jewelry, is this
> not a warning of an imminent collapse? We have seen in the recent
> past a narrow brush with financial armageddon yet gold was only able
> to broach $1000 and then fall back again into a trading range.
> Gold is a speculative commodity not money, those days are gone.
On Sep 05 01:54 PM HI!1929 wrote:
> 1929 crash is back, naw wait for 30 years of economic depression.
>
> Good today it's so easy to go short, the only problem is if I will
> be paid as all financial system is in collapse. I can make $$$ millions
> from this once in a lifetime opportunity, but will I be paid by bankrupt
> brokers and banks?
I thought the title of your article was
"China urges Citizens to Buy GOLD and Silver"
Must be my web browsers rendering of the page and it just happend to add GOLD in the title by a technical glitch!
SHARK
On Sep 05 02:21 PM Jeff Nielson wrote:
> Anarchist, along with demonstrating that you are woefully uninformed
> by agreeing with ANYTHING written by "Dshark", you also demonstrated
> that you didn't even READ my commentary.
>
> While China's government recommended precious metals, in general,
> it SPECIFICALLY advised its citizens to buy silver - currently at
> $16/oz.
>
> P.S. To respond to just ONE of the lies posted here by Dshark, we
> do not sell ANYTHING on our site (other than advertising). All of
> our content is free to all.
Our secondary objective is to highlight the tremendous investment opportunities in Canadian mining (in general), and the precious metals sector, in particular. Even with current prices for precious metals, mining companies trading on Canadian exchanges are getting horrific valuations - near the lowest levels this decade. With the enormous upside still ahead in precious metals, this provides nothing less than a once-in-a-lifetime investment opportunity (at a time when most people are reeling from a series of economic "shocks").
ALL the Gold Commentary from your Companies website recently:
# Article Title Date Author Hits
1 China urges citizens to buy gold, silver Thursday, 03 September 2009 Jeff Nielson 362
2 Gold Wars, Part II: The Empire Strikes Back Monday, 24 August 2009 Jeff Nielson 799
3 Gold Wars, Part I: Central Banks supreme Monday, 24 August 2009 Jeff Nielson 625
4 New Central Bank sales-agreement very gold-bullish Friday, 07 August 2009 Jeff Nielson 680
5 Manipulators try to frighten market with Gold Scrap sales Saturday, 01 August 2009 Jeff Nielson 498
6 China replacing India as premier gold-consumer Sunday, 26 July 2009 Jeff Nielson 594
7 Morgan Stanley pays damages for Precious Metals Fraud Friday, 24 July 2009 Jeff Nielson 296
8 Two short-term scenarios for Gold market Thursday, 02 July 2009 Administrator 1215
9 New “ETF” provides access to “junior” gold/silver miners Thursday, 11 June 2009 Administrator 1017
10 A Novice's Guide to Precious Metals, Part II: the miners Wednesday, 27 May 2009 Administrator 1383
11 A Novice's Guide to Precious Metals (Part I) Sunday, 24 May 2009 Administrator 1051
12 “Peak Gold”: the new paradigm Wednesday, 20 May 2009 Administrator 1503
13 Is India now IRRELEVANT to the gold market? Thursday, 14 May 2009 Administrator 887
14 Gold has not BEGUN to 'shine' Thursday, 07 May 2009 Administrator 412
15 Gold “demand” driven by investment...PERIOD! Tuesday, 21 April 2009 Administrator 861
16 Gold and Silver: the ONLY currencies to hold Tuesday, 07 April 2009 Administrator 431
17 Did ECB save Deutsche Bank from Comex gold-default? Friday, 03 April 2009 Administrator 3437
18 Eric Sprott: “only two things we do...precious metals [or] shorting” Friday, 03 April 2009 Administrator 258
19 GATA seeks audit of MYTHICAL, Fort Knox gold Wednesday, 01 April 2009 Administrator 1215
20 Russia suggests global currency backed by GOLD Saturday, 28 March 2009 Administrator 373
21 Indian gold EXPORTS holding down price temporarily Thursday, 26 March 2009 Administrator 321
22 IMF “funny-money” should frighten EVERYONE toward gold Monday, 16 March 2009 Administrator 341
23 Central banks bought over 1 million oz's of gold in January Saturday, 14 March 2009 Administrator 196
24 “World mints report soaring demand for gold coins” Friday, 13 March 2009 Administrator 248
25 Precious metals investors MUST avoid the “noise” Tuesday, 10 March 2009 Administrator 133
26 Indian gold-buyers DESPERATE for new supply Thursday, 05 March 2009 Administrator 222
27 Bullion-ETF's: a multi-purpose scam Sunday, 01 March 2009 Administrator 1805
28 The Golden Rule Sunday, 01 March 2009 Administrator 153
29 Quote of the Day: gold and bread Friday, 27 February 2009 Administrator 127
30 What is "money"? Wednesday, 18 February 2009 Administrator 201
31 Gold and Silver: a Story of the Sun and the Moon Sunday, 15 February 2009 Administrator 611
32 JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs BUYING gold at the Comex Friday, 13 February 2009 Administrator 150
33 Profit margins SOARING for gold and silver miners Thursday, 05 February 2009 Administrator 133
34 European Central Bank ADDS gold, DUMPS dollars !!!!!! Thursday, 05 February 2009 Administrator 255
35 The "hows" and "whys" of gold manipulation Monday, 02 February 2009 Administrator 92
36 $10,000/oz gold is a solution for the current GLOBAL debt-crisis Monday, 02 February 2009 Administrator 162
37 A very, very good day for gold Monday, 02 February 2009 Administrator 93
Not to Slanted now is it!
SHARK
On Sep 05 02:21 PM Jeff Nielson wrote:
> Anarchist, along with demonstrating that you are woefully uninformed
> by agreeing with ANYTHING written by "Dshark", you also demonstrated
> that you didn't even READ my commentary.
>
> While China's government recommended precious metals, in general,
> it SPECIFICALLY advised its citizens to buy silver - currently at
> $16/oz.
>
> P.S. To respond to just ONE of the lies posted here by Dshark, we
> do not sell ANYTHING on our site (other than advertising). All of
> our content is free to all.
On Sep 04 12:09 PM Kevin_T wrote:
> Excellent article. The Chinese are going about building their future
> economy and currency in a smart and systematic way. If they can keep
> on this path they will eventually have a world-class currency backed
> by solid assets rather than I.O.U.'s. Refreshing approach in these
> times of complex paper derivative holdings and relentless printing
> of currency. Better learn to speak Mandarin.
If you have read "The 5000 Year Leap" then you should understand how societies rise and fall. You would be able to see "Through The Veil" and recognize the dangers that are present.
Petty People Prefer Their Own Paradigm In The Face Of Peril.
All Men Are Created Equal Except Those With Access To Fractional Reserve Banking.
On Sep 05 11:04 AM dshark wrote:
> Read a book called "The 5000 Year Leap" to get a handle on power
> and corruption. The sytem is about as good as it can get and not
> without it's pitfalls, You have no clue on what your talking about.
> I am guessing you have your doubts about a man walking on the moon
> and you still think Elvis is alive. Go wash your trailer park home,
> grab a budweiser and beat your dog for fun!
>
> SHARK
seekingalpha.com/insta...
I went to your company website to finish countering your anti US
crap on another article you spewed out yesterday and had to stop myself.
Your Google Page rank is 3 and your Alexa traffic rank is Pitiful!!!! (690,000, seekingalpha.com is 2500, 1 is Best)
This is all the amo I need to say your advice/thinking and your companies articles ARE Worthless Just like you say about the US dollar. My ID maybe new on this website but expect it to be BASHING on your articles everytime I see them! Your Anti USA Well I am now Anti Jeff Nielsen and I will be heard!
SHARK
SHARK
On Sep 05 02:21 PM Jeff Nielson wrote:
> Anarchist, along with demonstrating that you are woefully uninformed
> by agreeing with ANYTHING written by "Dshark", you also demonstrated
> that you didn't even READ my commentary.
>
> While China's government recommended precious metals, in general,
> it SPECIFICALLY advised its citizens to buy silver - currently at
> $16/oz.
>
> P.S. To respond to just ONE of the lies posted here by Dshark, we
> do not sell ANYTHING on our site (other than advertising). All of
> our content is free to all.
On Sep 04 10:48 AM LKofEnglish wrote:
> the only thing holding up the american economy is the fact that the
> dollar is the world's reserve currency? really? you need to get out
> more, buddy. we feed most of the world, produce most of the world's
> automobiles, provides huge amounts oil and natural gas and most importantly
> have free flow of (more often stupid than not) ideas over what is
> called the internet, free of government arrest for doing so, however.
> try and get any of that in China. clearly now that we know we really
> can borrow our way to prosperity the question as to why any american
> should even have to pay taxes seems rather suspect to me in here.
> that would promote the american consumer quite nicely, actually.
Is Google a joke also?
Keep writing your crap and only Time will Tell.
On Sep 05 06:23 PM Jeff Nielson wrote:
> Dshark, you clearly lack both the knowledge and intellect to counter
> what I write about - although I thank you for posting a list of commentary
> titles from our site.
>
> As for your attempt to smear our site, Alexa is a joke. It's data-gathering
> is not only inaccurate but also out-dated.
>
> The fact that you have felt the need to post 14 comments on one article
> tells people here that either you're an obsessive/compulsive nut,
> or that you do indeed take what I write very seriously...a back-handed
> compliment, I suppose.
(And I am sure you are Nielsens brother in-law or something close to that)
SHARK
On Sep 05 06:30 PM User 357705 wrote:
> There are some here on SA who are looking forward to the collapse
> of the Duhmerican't FU Capitalist system and the USD.
On Sep 04 10:31 AM justin_3d wrote:
> Good stuff! Gold is real money!
> If there is to be a major catastrophe in the world, then gold and
> silver will be of great value!
> It doesn't hurt to own some gold and silver to hedge yourself!<br/>And
> yes i have pick up on that, where company are buying gold! Something
> is up, and they know it. I would suggest not sell them anything for
> some devaluating dollar!
We are linked together like siamese twins.
They fund our debt and we buy their products.
When this balance is disturbed nobody really knows what will happen.
This time they are hoarding precious metals, even telling their "citizens"(that word does not mean what it does here, by the way) to buy gold & silver-- Naturally, in a totalitarian dictatorship like PRC, any gold and silver bought by the "citizens" can be ceased by the government at gun point in time of an "emergency"- You get my drift. They believe in 'gradualism', like little ants billions of ants each carrying a small piece to the nest. The culture is sneaky and full of deceit and plotting. Taiwan will be history in the next deacdes and will most likely than not be 'vacuumed' and gobbled up by PRC. And there may be no damn thing US can do about it, either.
The conclusion is that the red Chinese see gold and silver prices exploding in the next 5-8 years, and they want to concentrate wealth inside their borders -- they are extremely territorial and eneterprising, and they are planning to expand outwards in the next 50 years as US and the west get weaker, in their eyes, they will be able to establish Chinese hegemony over the whole planet.
The question is what is US prepared to do about it.
What this says is that the Chinese government is going to move away from the dollar, unhinge from it, and do their best to tip-toe away from it and hope we don't notice until it is too late.
The more real assets their citizens have, the better for the government and vice-versa.
It kills me to hear people talk about gold and silver as "useless" and nothing but a speculative trade.
Really? What's on your finger if you are married? What's the best tooth crown? What is universally accepted as currency in every culture and bank across the globe? GOLD.
Please, spare me the "goldbug" moniker. It's simply fact I'm stating, not love.
Gold and other precious metals are and always will be of value just like a jug of beer, wine or liquor or a pretty face and a nice figure and food.
To say that the Chinese gov is encouraging citizens to buy gold only because of a program on CCTV 1? or 4 ? so what...there's lots of stuff on those channels.
China regulates the price of gold per gram (and is much cheaper than in the US). That's enough of encouragement.
On Sep 05 09:43 PM Keer-eh Khar wrote:
> Obviously, the PRC is up to no good again and is doing it quietly
> and sneakily-as usual--
>
> This time they are hoarding precious metals, even telling their "citizens"(that
> word does not mean what it does here, by the way) to buy gold &
> silver-- Naturally, in a totalitarian dictatorship like PRC, any
> gold and silver bought by the "citizens" can be ceased by the government
> at gun point in time of an "emergency"- You get my drift. They believe
> in 'gradualism', like little ants billions of ants each carrying
> a small piece to the nest. The culture is sneaky and full of deceit
> and plotting. Taiwan will be history in the next deacdes and will
> most likely than not be 'vacuumed' and gobbled up by PRC. And there
> may be no damn thing US can do about it, either.
>
> The conclusion is that the red Chinese see gold and silver prices
> exploding in the next 5-8 years, and they want to concentrate wealth
> inside their borders -- they are extremely territorial and eneterprising,
> and they are planning to expand outwards in the next 50 years as
> US and the west get weaker, in their eyes, they will be able to establish
> Chinese hegemony over the whole planet.
>
> The question is what is US prepared to do about it.
I did read your article but apologize for missing the bit about buying silver at $16/oz however, that said, I stand by my comment. $16 might be pocket change for you but I am guessing that it is still a lot of money to the average worker in China and that their purchases of PM will not be enough to significantly move the price of Gold or Silver, As I said, I am reminded of the late 70s early 80s when is was again legal for Americans, who were affluent to buy gold. Gold prices shot up to astronomical heights, all the goldbug newsletters were predicting gold prices up into the thousands of dollars on the basis of expected buying by Americans-look what happened, Americans said "so what" and gold plunged to a couple hundred dollars an ounce and took decades to recover. My guess is that the average Chinese is more interested on putting rice on the table than buying Silver.
Thanks for the article.
On Sep 05 02:21 PM Jeff Nielson wrote:
> Anarchist, along with demonstrating that you are woefully uninformed
> by agreeing with ANYTHING written by "Dshark", you also demonstrated
> that you didn't even READ my commentary.
>
> While China's government recommended precious metals, in general,
> it SPECIFICALLY advised its citizens to buy silver - currently at
> $16/oz.
>
> P.S. To respond to just ONE of the lies posted here by Dshark, we
> do not sell ANYTHING on our site (other than advertising). All of
> our content is free to all.
Gold reserves by country or entity in Tonnes and as a percent of total forex reserves:
United States 8,133.5 --- 78.9%
Germany 3,412.6 --- 71.5%
International Monetary Fund 3,217.3 ---
France 2,487.1 --- 72.6%
Italy 2,451.8 --- 66.5%
SPDR Gold Trust (a Gold exchange-traded fund) 1,104 ---
People's Republic of China 1,054 --- 0.9%
Switzerland 1,040.1 --- 41.1%
Japan 765.2 --- 2.2%
Netherlands 612.5 --- 61.7%
European Central Bank 536.9 --- 23.7%
"The United States effectively controls a larger amount of gold than the eurozone since the IMF cannot sell its gold without United States Congressional approval"
0.027626772 ounces per Chinese citizen
0.933544953 ounces per US citizen
Now which government would you say has the golden touch??
But even if you divide it by 100 we still twice what his country has!
Canada 3.4 (yeah 3.4, I sense a little Freudian in-adequacy complex here)
SHARK
On Sep 06 12:49 PM contango wrote:
> ...or maybe the Chinese government wants more gold on hand because
> it simply has a lot of catching up to do....
>
> Gold reserves by country or entity in Tonnes and as a percent of
> total forex reserves:
>
> United States 8,133.5 --- 78.9%
> Germany 3,412.6 --- 71.5%
> International Monetary Fund 3,217.3 ---
> France 2,487.1 --- 72.6%
> Italy 2,451.8 --- 66.5%
> SPDR Gold Trust (a Gold exchange-traded fund) 1,104 ---
> People's Republic of China 1,054 --- 0.9%
> Switzerland 1,040.1 --- 41.1%
> Japan 765.2 --- 2.2%
> Netherlands 612.5 --- 61.7%
> European Central Bank 536.9 --- 23.7%
Let me give another perspective. I immigrated from Canada to the US in the early 90's because there were more opportunities for technical people here. What I have seen is a continual decline in opportunities mainly because of deindustrialization and offshoring. Also Canadians were much more careful with their money than Americans. I do see that Americans embrace risk much more so than Canadians. Then so did the Athenians but they understood 'tragedy'. Americans do not seem to realize they are facing a tragedy created by the multinational corporations and the Chinese government. When I was still in Canada the Chinese government sent in the first wave, "the Chinese scholars". Their role was to prepare the way for massive numbers of "Chinese graduate students". Why was China doing this? They were hoping many of the foreign graduate school educated, and possibly employed in US firms, Chinese would return to China to help jump start China's modernization. And others would provide US dollars. And it worked. The Chinese emigre have been helping to deindustrial the US and Canada and build up China. The actions of the Chinese government in my experience are carefully planned. The US appears to have no plan. This is a war that the US does not even know that it is in... When the real WAR comes, a shot will probably not be fired as the US will simply secede to its creditor.
SHARK
On Sep 06 01:51 PM pigdog67 wrote:
> Wow. This is an active thread.
> Let me give another perspective. I immigrated from Canada to the
> US in the early 90's because there were more opportunities for technical
> people here. What I have seen is a continual decline in opportunities
> mainly because of deindustrialization and offshoring. Also Canadians
> were much more careful with their money than Americans. I do see
> that Americans embrace risk much more so than Canadians. Then so
> did the Athenians but they understood 'tragedy'. Americans do not
> seem to realize they are facing a tragedy created by the multinational
> corporations and the Chinese government. When I was still in Canada
> the Chinese government sent in the first wave, "the Chinese scholars".
> Their role was to prepare the way for massive numbers of "Chinese
> graduate students". Why was China doing this? They were hoping many
> of the foreign graduate school educated, and possibly employed in
> US firms, Chinese would return to China to help jump start China's
> modernization. And others would provide US dollars. And it worked.
> The Chinese emigre have been helping to deindustrial the US and Canada
> and build up China. The actions of the Chinese government in my experience
> are carefully planned. The US appears to have no plan. This is a
> war that the US does not even know that it is in... When the real
> WAR comes, a shot will probably not be fired as the US will simply
> secede to its creditor.
This time they are hoarding precious metals, even telling their "citizens"(that word does not mean what it does here, by the way) to buy gold & silver-- Naturally, in a totalitarian dictatorship like PRC, any gold and silver bought by the "citizens" can be ceased by the government at gun point in time of an "emergency"- You get my drift. They believe in 'gradualism', like little ants billions of ants each carrying a small piece to the nest. The culture is sneaky and full of deceit and plotting. Taiwan will be history in the next deacdes and will most likely than not be 'vacuumed' and gobbled up by PRC. And there may be no damn thing US can do about it, either.
The conclusion is that the red Chinese see gold and silver prices exploding in the next 5-8 years, and they want to concentrate wealth inside their borders -- they are extremely territorial and eneterprising, and they are planning to expand outwards in the next 50 years as US and the west get weaker, in their eyes, they will be able to establish Chinese hegemony over the whole planet.
The question is what is US prepared to do about it.
On Sep 06 05:37 PM Keer-eh Khar wrote:
> Obviously, the PRC is up to no good again and is doing it quietly
> and sneakily-as usual--
>
> This time they are hoarding precious metals, even telling their "citizens"(that
> word does not mean what it does here, by the way) to buy gold &
> silver-- Naturally, in a totalitarian dictatorship like PRC, any
> gold and silver bought by the "citizens" can be ceased by the government
> at gun point in time of an "emergency"- You get my drift. They believe
> in 'gradualism', like little ants billions of ants each carrying
> a small piece to the nest. The culture is sneaky and full of deceit
> and plotting. Taiwan will be history in the next deacdes and will
> most likely than not be 'vacuumed' and gobbled up by PRC. And there
> may be no damn thing US can do about it, either.
>
> The conclusion is that the red Chinese see gold and silver prices
> exploding in the next 5-8 years, and they want to concentrate wealth
> inside their borders -- they are extremely territorial and eneterprising,
> and they are planning to expand outwards in the next 50 years as
> US and the west get weaker, in their eyes, they will be able to establish
> Chinese hegemony over the whole planet.
>
> The question is what is US prepared to do about it.
What is the Chinese government preparing for? They may be anticipating a future time when the world's reserve will be a basket of currencies and (possibly) metals. A precondition is for the PRC to let its currency float. The Chinese government may be preparing its most prosperous citizens from the vagaries of a floating currency.
would we ever do without your trailer park insight?
Don't leave us! ever!
SHARK
On Sep 06 06:09 PM User 357705 wrote:
> Hegemony. How DARE they displace Duhmerica's hegemony! What is Duhmerica
> going to do about it? Easy, keep going hat in hand as long as possible
> begging for yet more support for its failed FU Capitalist system.
>
See the thing is lunatic left should not be investing at all! They dont believe in Capitalism anyway and see the "US Empire" crumbling down--any day now!--Right?
So why even worry about it? Unless they are the 'in-the-closet' capitalist hiding behind a populist far left mask?
so at best hypocrites, and at worst...well you said it best shark! :)
> Hegemony. How DARE they displace Duhmerica's hegemony! What is Duhmerica
> going to do about it? Easy, keep going hat in hand as long as possible
> begging for yet more support for its failed FU Capitalist system.
OK, so an evidently factual report that the Chinese government is in some way encouraging its’ citizens to trade their nations’ currency for gold and because it’s reported by someone that actually follows that type of news, it’s cause for shooting the messenger. On top of that, we embark on some tangent on homogeny and “FU” capitalism. Buy the news or don’t buy it. Believing facts or not believing facts doesn’t change them. Only your actions on what the facts do or don’t mean will change your behavior. Personally, our, (the US)’s, attempt in mimicking failed governing structures that rule from the top down is our biggest threat to the future security of our citizenry. I will continue to try to make our elected officials tasks as difficult as possible until they realize they are the servants and we are the sovereigns. I guess that means that for the foreseeable future, my life’s gonna be pretty enjoyable!!
As for the foreseeable future being enjoyable I can only say enjoy. The assumption that they will eventually see the error of their ways is charming for its faith in an utterly failed idea in the face of all the evidence of that failure. They don't care what we think. They have decided that those of us that don't constitute their 'base' (the top 1%) don't matter and whats more we are, in the words of that monster Henry A. Kissinger: 'useless eaters'.
I understand the comfort of faith. Some choose to have faith in something greater than FU Capitalism. Its tough seeing everything you were taught to believe in be revealed for a lie, I get that. Thats why I look forward to the complete unarguable fantastic collapse of Duhmerica. The bastards broke faith with us!
On Sep 07 12:21 AM Boxed Merlot wrote:
> I will continue to try to make our elected officials tasks as difficult as possible until they realize they are the servants and we are the sovereigns. I guess that means that for the foreseeable future, my life’s gonna be pretty enjoyable!!
Derivatives, according to the Economist, were meant to lesson risk but have, instead, created frightful levels of such. It is only natural, given the easily abused aspects of these instruments, the world should seek to balance these risks with a tangible and risk-free asset class.
This is an example, writ large, of Gresham's Law. "Bad money drives out good". Holders of junk paper will increasingly begin to replace such with precious metals or other stores of real value.
From George Washington's Blog:
www.washingtonsblog.co...
The Chinese are clearly worried about the mounting debt in the US, especially the 800B of it that they own. Hell, so are we.
Their government is taking steps to build out their own infrastructure and create a new middle class that would make them less dependent on the American consumer. Our government can't make a decision other than to agree to disagree.
Under the circumstances, I think the Chinese have the right idea. I bought a little gold and silver too.
On Sep 07 12:03 AM wowser wrote:
> alot of stupid ppl here ...damn we are in deep dodo shark ur an idiot
The U.S. has REFUSED to allow any independent audit of its (supposed) gold reserves for over FIFTY YEARS.
Similarly, many of the stated holdings of European governments are ALSO suspect, given the refusal of ALL these players in the gold market to acknowledge how much of their gold has been "leased" to the market, THEN sold, and NOW gone for good.
Conversely, because the Chinese government is acquiring its gold through its own, #1-ranked domestic gold-mining, NONE of such gold acquired is REQUIRED to be reported.
The recent disclosure by China was VOLUNTARY, and their ACTUAL gold reserves could be several times what they have admitted to.
On Sep 06 12:49 PM contango wrote:
> ...or maybe the Chinese government wants more gold on hand because
> it simply has a lot of catching up to do....
>
> Gold reserves by country or entity in Tonnes and as a percent of
> total forex reserves:
>
> United States 8,133.5 --- 78.9%
> Germany 3,412.6 --- 71.5%
> International Monetary Fund 3,217.3 ---
> France 2,487.1 --- 72.6%
> Italy 2,451.8 --- 66.5%
> SPDR Gold Trust (a Gold exchange-traded fund) 1,104 ---
> People's Republic of China 1,054 --- 0.9%
> Switzerland 1,040.1 --- 41.1%
> Japan 765.2 --- 2.2%
> Netherlands 612.5 --- 61.7%
> European Central Bank 536.9 --- 23.7%
It's a chore sparring with all the USA doomsdayers here.
We (USA) have our issues to work out but when it is all said and done we will still lead the world and my chidren will prosper all the more because they are here!
SHARK
On Sep 06 11:22 PM Keer-eh Khar wrote:
> Shark; right on!
> See the thing is lunatic left should not be investing at all! They
> dont believe in Capitalism anyway and see the "US Empire" crumbling
> down--any day now!--Right?
> So why even worry about it? Unless they are the 'in-the-closet' capitalist
> hiding behind a populist far left mask?
> so at best hypocrites, and at worst...well you said it best shark!
> :)
Let the people suffering from hellucinations based in anger and resentment, and bitterness stew in their own juices :):)
But one thing is they do not belong in investing web sites, they should go to some leftist cult web page and toot their horns there :)
SSRIs anyone?
Let the people suffering from hellucinations based in anger and resentment, and bitterness stew in their own juices :):)
But one thing is they do not belong in investing web sites, they should go to some leftist cult web page and toot their horns there :)
SSRIs anyone?
The US and all the other major free countries of the world are lying about how much gold they have. (and it's leased out? to who? China?)
But China, a communist totalitarian regime is not lying about the increase of their holdings and how much they have> (Have they provided verification that makes you believe them?)
I read your great conspiracy theory that almost ever major gov and state bank in the world if lying and manipulating the prices of gold over the last 50 years. Really a great fiction read.
If you really believe this then I may have to change your nick name from Tooter Turtle to Mr Wizard since you have
knowledge no one else in the world has.
SHARK
On Sep 07 12:35 PM Jeff Nielson wrote:
> Contango, IF there is any gold in Fort Knox, it likely belongs to
> OTHER people/nations.
>
> The U.S. has REFUSED to allow any independent audit of its (supposed)
> gold reserves for over FIFTY YEARS.
>
> Similarly, many of the stated holdings of European governments are
> ALSO suspect, given the refusal of ALL these players in the gold
> market to acknowledge how much of their gold has been "leased" to
> the market, THEN sold, and NOW gone for good.
>
> Conversely, because the Chinese government is acquiring its gold
> through its own, #1-ranked domestic gold-mining, NONE of such gold
> acquired is REQUIRED to be reported.
>
> The recent disclosure by China was VOLUNTARY, and their ACTUAL gold
> reserves could be several times what they have admitted to.
On Sep 07 12:18 PM dshark wrote:
> since your siding with a guy that uses "duhamerica" and FU Capit...
> in every post I won't be to concerned about your opinion.
>
>
>
>
> Contango, IF there is any gold in Fort Knox, it likely belongs to
> OTHER people/nations.
This is an awesome discussion and I’ve enjoyed the opportunity to participate. Please don’t flame me for adding a couple more little comments here, but I’d like to know: 1. How does the notion of “possession is 9/10ths of the law” fit in, (if at all), and 2. Since reporting AU reserves is a courtesy or voluntary act of a nation, then it would seem the prudent thing for any and all nations to decline comment. Or as a famous ex first lady said, “I don’t recall”. I mean it has been 50 years, hasn’t it?
www.upi.com/Business_N.../
www.chinapost.com.tw/b...
There's a lot of chatter going on in here about China selling this and that. As these articles show, perhaps people in China still believe that America is able to back their obligations, but are just concerned about their investment. Any major investor would feel the same way. Plus, if they are going to get rid of their U.S. assets, they're going to do it very slowly, and not just dump them. Who knows how long it's going to take.
You didn't read my comment carefully enough. I wrote:
"...because the Chinese government is acquiring its gold through its own, #1-ranked domestic gold-mining, NONE of such gold acquired is REQUIRED to be reported."
It's ONLY because it was purchased DOMESTICALLY that there is no obligation to report the purchases. Purchases made internationally (i.e. on the "open market") are required to be reported in a timely manner.
On Sep 07 07:38 PM Boxed Merlot wrote:
> On Sep 07 12:35 PM Jeff Nielson wrote:
On Sep 04 01:31 PM dshark wrote:
> Yeah your article is not to self serving coming from a guys who has
> an interest in selling gold. No bias what so ever! Who would ever
> take what you have to say about gold as serious? Also the dollar
> should be at a value "somewhere not far above zero". Sounds like
> you have a complex because your country is stuck being a pint sized
> half brother to one of the greatest countries in the world!
>
> Push your gold agenda somewhere else.
>
> SHARK
dshark's
Comments Stats
31 comments
Rating: -111 (59 - 170 )
Thumb "up" 59
Thumb "down" 170 (WOW!!)
He post 31 comments, and every time he vote for himself
So, the thumb "up" of 59 minus 31 = ONLY 28 thumb "up"
It clearly demonstrate your are a "big minus" in appreciation.
LOL!!!
A lot of whining going on here.
On Sep 07 09:27 PM Jeff Nielson wrote:
> Hi BoxedMerlot.
>
> You didn't read my comment carefully enough. I wrote:
>
> "...because the Chinese government is acquiring its gold through
> its own, #1-ranked domestic gold-mining, NONE of such gold acquired
> is REQUIRED to be reported."
I guess this is where I get a little hazy. Who has to report the acqusition, nations or individuals, and to who? This has come up recently as negotiations for Net Smelter Returns for royalty payments are an interesting asset. It's been said receipt of these payments have in the past been available at various locations around the globe though the mining property may be physically located in the geopolitical confines of a different country or nation. At this point, who / what are the jurisdictional authorities?
Your calling me an idiot, so whom is throwing mud?
If almost every government if printing money and going into debt to get out this mess doesn't that mean currency to currency all will be equal. What is the US doing that is so different from any other developed country to try and correct the course of our economy?
What is your intelligent input besides your rocket scientist comment of telling me I can't comment on China because I haven't been there?
Really, Who is the idiot?
SHARK
On Sep 07 10:12 PM wowser wrote:
> shark ...ur still an idiot ...how many times u been to china?? to
> speak like you know when you dont makes you an idiot...i dont think
> were in deep dodo from the chinese ,, we are our own threat..ppl
> like shark being themselves..thats the usa problem
perceive it to be valuable and the value fluxuates just like paper money. It has no intristic value or use. Tell me Why or for
What logical reason do we put any value in GOLD??? There is no reason, unless you go back thousands of years and take the reasoning for putting a value on it from what could naerly be considered primates and the fact it was shiny and not much of it was around! It's value is mostly irrelovnet in the 21st century. It's not going to $10,000 as Tooter Turtle says it's real worth is in his fictional writings on the "Gold Wars".
ONE BIG QUESTIONL. When the GOLD venders sell GOLD, WHAT DO THEY TAKE IN PAYMENT? More GOLD? if it's
the only thing with real value? If not, why would someone selling GOLD take an exchange with anoyones FIAT currency?
Toote Turtle (AKA Jeff Nielsen) is just afraid because a recovery is on the way and he's pissed because people haven't bought enough
GOLD yet. Sorry the train has passed and in a year or so when the ecomomy is humming along you will be stuck here at SE still crying.
SHARK
Someone in another comment said I am just slinging mud. Your right, but I am slinging mud it retaliation of TT (Tooter Turtle) constant mud slinging at the USA.
SHARK
On Sep 08 07:10 AM Clint007 wrote:
> This is the little dshark stastistic:
>
> dshark's
> Comments Stats
> 31 comments
> Rating: -111 (59 - 170 )
> Thumb "up" 59
> Thumb "down" 170 (WOW!!)
>
> He post 31 comments, and every time he vote for himself
> So, the thumb "up" of 59 minus 31 = ONLY 28 thumb "up"
>
> It clearly demonstrate your are a "big minus" in appreciation.<br/&g...
On Sep 08 11:26 AM dshark wrote:
> I guess you can't read very well. My posts are here because I reached
> a nausea level on all the negative crap from bozos like you and Tooter
> Turtle (AKA Jeff Nielsen). You are SHEEP following anything he has
> to say. He needs to promote an ongoing bad economy and conspiracy
> theories to push his agenda that precious metals purchasing is going
> to be the savior of the world. Very few of you all have anything
> to comment on about that. Most of you are pathetic.
>
> Someone in another comment said I am just slinging mud. Your right,
> but I am slinging mud it retaliation of TT (Tooter Turtle) constant
> mud slinging at the USA.
>
> SHARK
Me thinks thou doth protesteth too much.
On Sep 08 11:26 AM dshark wrote:
> I guess you can't read very well. My posts are here because I reached
> a nausea level on all the negative crap from bozos like you and Tooter
> Turtle (AKA Jeff Nielsen). You are SHEEP following anything he has
> to say. He needs to promote an ongoing bad economy and conspiracy
> theories to push his agenda that precious metals purchasing is going
> to be the savior of the world. Very few of you all have anything
> to comment on about that. Most of you are pathetic.
>
> Someone in another comment said I am just slinging mud. Your right,
> but I am slinging mud it retaliation of TT (Tooter Turtle) constant
> mud slinging at the USA.
>
> SHARK
Did it take you long to come up with them.
What was your inspiration?
Forget that older saying of "I want to be like Mike!"
I want to be like 357705!
I get it, you probably think your handle number is your IQ.
SHARK
On Sep 07 06:05 PM User 357705 wrote:
> Thats DUHmerica not duhamerica.....pay attention back there....<br/>
Also lets be quite clear 'paper-gold' is a fiat currency and if it went to 10 000 USD, it would be another investment bubble with no fundamental grounding. The reason - there is not enough gold in the world to make physcial delivery to outstanding paper gold market. I am afraid guys, Gold is just another 'man-made perception of value' that does not have a justified intrinsic value of a high amount. If one believes that gold will go to 10 000usd because the usd is doomed, then maybe they need to realise it will not be quoted in usd if the usd is doomed.
Guys who are being alarmist about the USA, I think you guys underestimate the meaning of what state the world will be in if your conclusions come true. Please do not throw around such armageddon points of view without really understanding what you are saying. Believe me if your right, you would not want to bring children into this 'new order world'. I think a lot of people here are transfering your own issues on the USA.
If I recall the UK had to sell a lot of its gold reserves to 'crash the gold market' when one of the big Investment banks was very short to stop them going bankcrupt. This was a favour to the USA government by Gordon Brown when he was chancellor. This was around 8 years ago. If there was as much gold in the US as everyone says, the UK would not have needed to do this. So 8 years ago my bet is that the US did have very little gold. Of course in that 8 years the USA could have accumulated a lot of gold. Which would make sense considering they print the currency that is used to buy gold so in effect could acquire gold very easily on a mass scale during any credit easing cycle through its intermediaries.
Of course our friend (not my friend) Dick Cheeny also agreed that gold was worthless and decided to back the USD with reserves of oil instead of gold..... Iraq - anyone. He would be right of course.
Oil has intrinsic value and the supply is finite yet there is enough supply to settle any 'paper/derivative contracts' in the market. So instead of raving about the 'gold war' maybe we should fix our minds on the most important commodity war of oil.
Which the USA holds a lot of. So you see the USD is not worth zero as it is backed by oil. (and other things)
If the USA is run by smart guys (which I would hope it is), then over the last 50 years. A large amount of the fiat usd they have created through 'un-offically' means would have been used to build up significant commodity reserves.This would guarantee US supremacy regardless of changes to the 'world reserve currency'. If they have been smart enough to do this (which is a no brainer really), then infact they should aim to move the USD away from being the reserve currency. Then no one could use currency manipulation to gain unfair trading advantage in their domestic market. They could guide the hand of the world to do this and maximise the benefit in the process:
1. Run up huge trade deficits so they become a debtor due to huge borrowing. Using some of the money borrowed to build up commodity reserves through war (Iraq anyone) and direct/indirect purchasing.
2. When borrowing has become too huge to handle create a huge amount of currency through QE, then pay off all their debtors with depreciated usd that they have created at no cost. During this phase build even more commodity reserves.
3. Then let 'strategic competitors' who are aiming for the top spot put the notion of replacing the USD as the reserve currency. The USA would then allow this to happen and the USD would de-value due to supply inbalance (caused through central banks selling and the QE phase). At which time it would be devalued by 50%.
I hear people shouting inflation...so what and how big? They would have built huge commodit reserves and supply chains that they own so commodites do not have to be purchased during this phase just used to create goods. The QE phase would have created a wealth effect due to asset inflation and because the USD has devalued so much the USA will be able to export again and create jobs. Unemployment would fall, so the only people who were feeling the inflation pinch would be the unemployed and those with no exposure to fixed assets/stockmarket.
Even tax revenues would go up as the huge international companies would be remitting the earnings (in other currencies) and paying tax in USD.
Overtime the USD would of course appreciate on the basis the entire world priced it incorrectly especially when the reality hits that the USA is backed by the best technology, the best and most powerful military, an educated population, huge commodity resources and cheap exports.
My view is the stone masons and rothchilds of the USA are smart enough to place the USA in this position and this may, just may be the reason the USA wanted globalisation. Because if their balance sheet has enough commodities on it - then can only forge ahead.
China may need to re-think their plan, their economic strength after all is mainly because of the USA trading with them. If they break the partnership by trying to go for the number one spot. They may come off worse. The USD being the reserve currency is in their best interest. If the USA creates more money and China tows the line, then a large % of that money will go to China as it has in the past.
China should be aiming to take power away from the rest of the world and keep its partnership with the USA. This will solidify their G2 status. (USA+China)
On Sep 08 11:15 AM dshark wrote:
> One more thing about GOLD, It is nothing more than a FIAT currencly
> like paper money. It has value because people
> perceive it to be valuable and the value fluxuates just like paper
> money. It has no intristic value or use. Tell me Why or for
> What logical reason do we put any value in GOLD??? There is no reason,
> unless you go back thousands of years and take the reasoning for
> putting a value on it from what could naerly be considered primates
> and the fact it was shiny and not much of it was around! It's value
> is mostly irrelovnet in the 21st century. It's not going to $10,000
> as Tooter Turtle says it's real worth is in his fictional writings
> on the "Gold Wars".
>
> ONE BIG QUESTIONL. When the GOLD venders sell GOLD, WHAT DO THEY
> TAKE IN PAYMENT? More GOLD? if it's
> the only thing with real value? If not, why would someone selling
> GOLD take an exchange with anoyones FIAT currency?
>
> Toote Turtle (AKA Jeff Nielsen) is just afraid because a recovery
> is on the way and he's pissed because people haven't bought enough
>
> GOLD yet. Sorry the train has passed and in a year or so when the
> ecomomy is humming along you will be stuck here at SE still crying.
>
>
> SHARK
You presume much. You presume that gold has no intrinsic value, yours is often the argument of a bankster that can't earn a fee from physical gold, You presume that the state of the Duhmerican economy is strong enough to weather whatever comes, it isn't. You presume that the oligarchs care at all about we, to them mind you, 'useless eaters'. And you presume that a China that holds all our cards would somehow believe that they should be happy being second fiddle and be satisfied with taking power away 'from the rest of the world and keep its partnership with the USA. This will solidify their G2 status. (USA+China)'
Your greatest presumption is that Duhmerica is now and will be the the ruler of the planet.
On Sep 08 01:41 PM James Lewis wrote:
> Even though I dont agree with using SA to have fights with people.
> Shark has a very good point here...Gold has no intrinsic value, it
> is almost useless. People say, there is only a finite amount so the
> laws of supply and demand mean that it can be priced instrinscially.
>
> Guys who are being alarmist about the USA, I think you guys underestimate
> the meaning of what state the world will be in if your conclusions
> come true. Please do not throw around such armageddon points of view
> without really understanding what you are saying. Believe me if your
> right, you would not want to bring children into this 'new order
> world'. I think a lot of people here are transfering your own issues
> on the USA.
>
> China should be aiming to take power away from the rest of the world
> and keep its partnership with the USA. This will solidify their G2
> status. (USA+China)
>
>
>
>
>
>
On Sep 08 05:06 PM dshark wrote:
> After 37755.. last reply to James, I am done beating this dead horse.
> (I honestly believe he is chugging Budweiser and hating the world
> from where ever he is)
>
> James,
> Good post and depth in your explanation. I will rest my case on your
> summation.
>
> SHARK
On Sep 08 05:06 PM dshark wrote:
> After 37755.. last reply to James, I am done beating this dead horse.
> (I honestly believe he is chugging Budweiser and hating the world
> from where ever he is)
>
> James,
> Good post and depth in your explanation. I will rest my case on your
> summation.
>
> SHARK
I still would like to know if you have any information regarding the reporting reqirements, if any, that an entity, (individual or corporation), has to report from NSR from a mining operation. Is it true for instance that reciept from a contract signed say in nation X can be paid in nation Y in whatever currency, (or bullion), the recipient desires without having to report the transaction? I have found this subject to be almost as secretive as the Fed's lending practices.
And on a faintly similar vein, do the reciepts of authenticity that accompany US eagle coins from the US mint serve a dual purpose of identifying original purchasers? Just wondering.
On Sep 08 01:41 PM James Lewis wrote:
"Overtime the USD would of course appreciate on the basis the entire world priced it incorrectly especially when the reality hits that the USA is backed by the best technology, the best and most powerful military, an educated population, huge commodity resources and cheap exports."
I'm convinced your comment should be bead the other way!
"Overtime the US$ would depreciate on the entire priced it incorrectly"
"... The USA is backed by the best technology" not for long, China and India are learning fast from the technology developed in US, now the competition is much faster then the US citizen though!
"...the best and most powerful military, an educated population..."
In the next five years the US will be at the 3rd rank. Not enough population in US, Chinese and India population are going in many university around the globe to learn more.
It is a huge fight in intellect between those 3 country.
In fact, the Oil should be trading in Gold (?) but definitely not in US$ anymore. The European pay $2.50 pre Litre (approx.), I don't think they like to pay that high for long!
Gold is the real money and it will be for millennium years. (period)
emotions & investing / trading should not be mixed, it blinds you to the truth of things.
now, can I have my 15 minutes back.