National Bank of Greece SA (NYSE:NBG)
Q2 2013 Earnings Conference Call
August 29, 2013 10:30 a.m. ET
Petros Nikolaos Christodoulou – Deputy Chief Executive Officer
Paula Chatzisotiriou – Group Chief Financial Officer
Paul Mylonas – General Manager of Strategy & International Activities
George Angelides – Head of Finance
Greg Papagrigoris – Head of Investor Relations
Carriere Giovanni – Autonomous Research
Antonio Ramirez – KBW
Nitu Florent – Citigroup
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. This is the Chorus Call conference operator. Welcome and thank you for joining National Bank of Greece Second Quarter 2013 Financial Results Conference Call. As a reminder, all participants are in listen-only mode and the conference is being recorded. After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions (Operator Instructions).
At this time, I’d like to turn the conference over to Mr. Petros Christodoulou, Deputy CEO; Mr. Paul Mylonas, CHT General Manager, Head of Strategy and International Operations of NBG; Mrs. Paula Chatzisotiriou, Group CFO; and Mr. Greg Papagrigoris, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon everyone. Good morning for those of you dialing in from the U.S. This is Petros Christodoulou speaking and with me today as you heard is Paul Mylonas, Head of our Strategy and International; Paula Chatzisotiriou, our new CFO; and we’re also joined by George Angelides, Head of Finance and Greg Papagrigoris, our Head of IR.
Welcome to the Q213 Results Conference Call. Let me begin with a few brief comments on our Q2 results before I pass the floor to Paula who will walk you through the numbers in more detail. After that we may open it up to Q&A. The key things I would like you to take away from the results are the following five.
First, we are witnessing clear signs of improvement in the domestic economic environment, allowing our gradual return to profitability. H1 ’13 group profit after tax stands at €344 million, relative to a loss of €1.9 billion a year ago. And even if we adjust for non-recurring profits and losses, still the bottom line remains positive, coming up at a solid €312 million for H1 ’13 and 126 million for Q2 ‘13. This performance is a function of two main drivers.
A, pre-provision profit, which is up by 45% year on year in H1 ’13 to €792 million, driven by the gradual bottoming out in Q1 ’13 and recovery of NII in Q2 ’13, the reversal of trading losses and sustained cost containment. It is worth mentioning, it is worth highlighting that in Q2 ’13, our free provision profit has exceeded the cost of risk for the first time in two and a half years, constituting an additional first in the domestic market.
B, the substantial reduction of the group cost of risk to 271 basis points for H1 ’13, versus 370 basis points a year ago has a consequence of lower formation in domestic past due loans for a third quarter in a row. During Q2 ’13, we witnessed further signs of a reduction in the formation of 90-day past due loans domestically. Indeed the generation of new 90-day past due loans in Q2 ’13 stood at €378 million or €835 million for H1 ’13, relative to around €2 billion number for H1 ’12, constituting a whopping 60% reduction in 90-day past due formation relative to H1 ’12, when Greece was as we know plagued by a conference of destabilizing forces.
As a result, our group 90-day past due ratio reached 19.8% in Q2 ’13, more than 10% points off that of our peers. In light of this policy development that clearly dissociates NBG from the rest of the market, we are steadily reducing loan provision and charges in Greece in tandem with the improvement in delinquency formation. As you can see from the results, the net provision in charges in H1 ’13 are down by 36% year on year, while at the same time coverage of 90-day past due loans has further risen to a best-in-class level of 56% in Q2 from 54% in Q1.
Second, on the liquidity front, we have managed to reduce further loan deposit ratios in all three geographies, Greece, Turkey and Se, pushing the group loan deposit down to 102%, just a whisper away from 100%. This has been a function of sustained growth deposit gathering in all three regions and measured deleveraging in Greece and SEE. As a result, as of June, we have managed to reduce Eurosystem system exposure by €5.4 billion year to date and by €9.2 billion on a year on year basis, while (inaudible) suggests a further reduction by about €3 billion, combined with a marginal exposure to the ELA of less than €1 billion.
Third, we continue to rationalize our cost base with a focus in Greece and SEE jurisdictions. In Greece, we have reduced OpEx by 8% year on year in H1 ’13, reaching a cumulative cost containment of 23% compared to the equivalent period of 2010. Upcoming quarters will be benefited additionally as the new collective wage agreement comes into effect and the large scale [VRS] is launched. The combined impact of agreed cost measures, including the above, is estimated at an additional 20% of our cost base. Similarly, in SEE we remain focused in further containing costs.
Fourth, our international franchise is supportive to group profitability. Finansbank’s H1 attributable profit after tax reached €332 million, posting a 32% increase in local Turkish Lira terms, despite 2012 being a record year in terms of profitability. Also, SEE has turned profitable, returning a profit of €6 million relative to a loss of €15 million in H1 ’12.
Finally, our pro forma Tier-1 stands at 9.2% after netting off fee expenses related to recap operation. The evolution of core capital during Q2 ’13 was affected by a series of offsetting factors ranging from the project of IRB implementation to optimize RWAs in Finansbank to the completed LME on the hybrid and the U.S preference shares, the small additional DTA and finally, the profit of the quarter.
The H1 ’13 core Tier-1 level is slightly above the regulatory limit. Nevertheless, given a further enhancements of our capacity to generate profit going forward in a number of additional capital assets currently in progress in Greece, we are confident in our ability to produce meaningful enhancements to our capital in the range of 100 to 150 basis points without exceeding the 10% in EBA Core Tier-1 over the next few quarters.
Last but not least, in July 2013 we proceeded to incorporate the healthy assets of ProBank, a well-run corporate bank with an attractive SME portfolio, excess liquidity and high quality human capital. ProBank will further strengthen our liquidity, allowing us to operate better in the current environment, financing the recovery of the Greek economy. In addition, NBG will capitalize on ProBank’s expertise on SMEs, further enhancing our penetration in the segment. We estimate to capture about €110 million of recurring annual synergies upon full phase out in 2015.
Before I pass the floor to our CFO who will provide more detail on the numbers and based on our H1 ’13 results, I would like once again to emphasize on NBG’s ability to generate recurring operating profit.
With that let me pass the floor to our Group CFO, Paula Chatzisotiriou, who will provide more granularity on NBG’s numbers. Paula?
Thank you, Petros. Good afternoon everyone. I will now through the presentation, starting with page 2 where we show the Q2 profit of €317 million. After extraordinary deferred tax and other one offs, profit stands at €126 million for Q2 and €312 million for the first half. Let me again summarize the main messages coming out of these results.
Recovering organic profitability in Greece supported by lower funding costs and cost cutting, asset qualities continued improvement in Greece and SEE, with NPL formation at the lowest level for the past two years, the positive economic time that allows for trading gains, the reversal provision on sovereign exposure and an increased allowance for deferred tax assets, reversing negative one off of previous years. The improved situation in Greece has been supported by the continued good performance in Turkey and the return of southeastern Europe to profitability. Pre-provision earnings exceed provisions for the first time in two and a half years. And finally, the stronger operational outlook is further supported by the best in class liquidity situation at the capital ratio above the minimum and about to be enhanced even more by a number of capital actions.
On page C, we detail group development for the topline, which is at 13% Q on Q and 8% excluding trading. Solid core revenue mainly reflects developments in NII which increased this quarter by €65 million. In Greece, NII experienced a second consecutive quarterly increase, with net interest margin rising to 260 bps from a top 245 bps in Q4. In Turkey, NII was also up in Euro terms, despite the deprecation of the try with NIM in Turkey reaching a recent high of 720 bps. In SEE, NIM has broadly stabilized at a solid 314 basis points. As a result, group NIM increased to 354 bps, up 18 bps in the quarter.
On page four, group operating expense increased by just 2% year on year, with increase mainly reflecting the fruitful expansion in Turkey. In Greece, personnel expenses are down and impacted profits on year on year, whereas increases of SG&A reflects integration costs from the aborted EuroBank merger. Without this, G&A would have declined and the 6% reduction of total OpEx would have been 8% year on year. Overall, since their peak in 2010, operating costs in Greece have been reduced by 23% and will experience further large declines as follows.
Exigent cuts in the average effective wage was implemented on July 1 and a further 3.5% wage cut will be implemented in 2014. The bank will be implementing a large VIS in next month covering approximately 2000 staff. Altogether, these additional measures would reduce costs by a further 20%. In Turkey now, the increase in the operating costs reflects an approximate 20% increase in branches and personnel over the past year while domestic inflation has been in the range of 7%.
The following page, page 5 describes development in group asset quality, which keep point to the continued deterioration in past 90 day past due formation. It was €563 million in Q2, down from €640 million on average for the previous two quarters and substantially lower than the €1.2 billion in the first nine months of 2012. As a result, the rate of growth of the NPL ratio remains at relatively low levels, up by about 115 in Greece during the past quarter. And the group NPL ratio stands at about 20%, more than 10 percentage points lower than our peers. And the group cost of risk has declined to 271 bps, about 100 bps below group mean. Nevertheless, NBG’s best in class coverage ratio is maintained and increased to 56%.
Finally, it’s important to note that as a result of the enhanced revenues, controlled costs and improved provisions, this is the first quarter in two and a half years that the cost of risk which came in at €425 million is lower than the pre provision reserve of €440 million.
On page 6, developments in liquidity were also quite positive during the quarter. Domestic loan to deposit ratio declined further to a best in class 93% as customer deposits increased by a further 3% Q on Q and that’s 10% year on year. These developments have allowed NBG to reduce its uses of funding by €2 billion in the second quarter of 2013 to €25.5 billion and during the third quarter, this has been reduced further to €22.6 billion with ELA less than €1 billion. It is also important to note that if NBG deposits €9.8 billion in EFSF bonds in the market, rather than with ECB, then Eurosystem dependent as a percentage of assets, excluding the EFSF bonds, would decline to 13%, already within the 15% target in our 2017 restructuring plan.
A final point on this page. Group liquidity was also supported by the impressive results in Turkey and SEE, which experienced year on year depositing of 26% and 13% respectively and improved the long deposit ratios. More on this later.
Turning to page 7, we can see that the group core tier-1 ratio stands at 9.2% on a pro forma basis by the end of Q2. Pro forma ratio as of 30th June stands at 8.4%. the pro forma calculations 9.2% include actions completed post June e.g. the U.S preference shares LME and the about €2.6 billion of risk weighted assets reduction arising from the implementation of finance based IRB rollout plan, subject to regulatory review and approval which is currently taking place. The core capital ratio is expected to further increase in the following months and NBG implements a series of capital actions within Greece.
I will not go through all the remaining pages of the presentation, which cover each of NBG’s three main geographies, Greece, Turkey and SEE. I would just point you to some of what I consider the most important developments. On page 9, please note that pre provision earnings in Greece continue to improve in Q2 and are now at a six quarter high, while provisions so far this year remained far below last year. Specifically peak region earnings reached €123 million in Q2, a mean increase from 252 to 260 bps.
Page 11 is important as it analyzes development in domestic NII. You will note that both lending and deposits spreads have remained broadly unchanged in the quarter and the bulk of the improvement in the net interest income can be seen to arise from the full phasing of the lower cost of Eurosystem funding.
Looking forward, we should expect additional support to NII from the lower cost of Eurosystem funding. Somewhat further out, an increase in Euribor rates from the currently extremely low levels of 10 to 20 bps will also be positive to NBG’s domestic NII in view of its large share of core deposits comprising above half of total deposits. In addition, the normalization of term deposit spreads closer to pre-crisis levels as the economy recovers will contribute in a very meaningful way.
Let us now turn to Finansbank which delivered another excellent quarter despite the market turbulence that begun the last month of the quarter on page 14. Profits amount to try €429 million in Q2, up 18% just in one quarter. This increase reflects a strong topline despite the impacts in operating expenses from the aforementioned large expansion of the operating footprint.
Indeed, one can see on page 15 that NII increased by 24% year on year and 15% Q on Q. moreover, fees continued to represent a solid 24% of operating income, while the cost to income ratio remains at a low 43%. The increase in NII was supported by both an increase in NIM as well as strong loan growth. Regarding NIM, it increased by 78 bps Q on Q to 721.
Regarding loan growth see page 16. This has increased by 17% year on year. Please note the subdued increase in credit costs and the more dynamic performance of SME lending which reflects Finansbank’s strategy. In addition, deposits increased faster than loans, up 21% year on year, with lower costs demand deposits at 45% and forming a rapidly increasing share of the total deposits. Finally, do note the successful e-banking platform called Enpara which was only launched nine months ago and already comprises 7% of total deposits.
Skipping now to page 18, you will note that Finansbank continues to have a very strong CAR ratio at 18.8% and suffered a relatively small hit from the spike of the sovereign bond yields in June. You will recall that Finansbank has a relatively low share of securities to total assets compared with peers, only 13.4%. Looking forward, the recent turmoil in emerging markets will likely to less positive results in Q3 for Finansbank resulting from the further deprecation of the exchange rates in Q3. The impact of the market turbulence on activity and therefore on credit quality is more difficult to predict at this stage.
Finally, just a few words on SEE, see page 20. Profits are increasing due to a significant improvement in asset quality and despite the continuing and rapid closure of the liquidity gap. Pre provision profits were flat both Q on Q and year on year, with cost cutting offsetting a small decline in NII. The NIM margins remains at a solid 340 bps and the cost to income ratio has declined to 64%.
On page 22, you can observe the developments in liquidity with the loans to deposit ratio down to 104%, resulting in a very low commercial gap of about €200 million fully funded by the €1.2 billion of capital.
The final point on SEE regards developments on asset quality on page 23. Please note that the 90 day past due ratio was less than €10 million in Q2 compared to €70 million a year, resulting in a cost of risk of 246 bps, about 70 bps below the NIM.
With that, I would like to conclude our introductory remarks and open the call to Q&A.
(Operator Instructions). The first question is from Mr. Carriere Giovanni of Autonomous Research. Please go ahead, sir.
Carriere Giovanni – Autonomous Research
A couple of questions. So the first one, just wanted to ask you for some comments on the write backs on the Greek sovereign bond of the provisions for the bond as well as on the BPA write backs that you had this quarter. How were these numbers calculated? And if you could give us some sensitivity i.e. should sovereign spreads improve, how much more write backs could be there? That’s number one. Number two, on the slide when you showed the capital evolution and you have all the additional drivers of improvement such as the gains on the U.S spreads. So just wanted to understand whether those went through the P&L or these are gains that (inaudible) now and they’re physical capital or maybe they’re in Q3 in the (inaudible) and pro forma.
And then last, if you could give us a little bit of color if possible on the progress of the BlackRock Diagnostic and in terms of the outcome, I’m still not clear, even assuming that they cannot predict come to the same conclusions. As last time we assumed it would need to be recapitalized for the adverse case as opposed to the best case last time because in best case even the 100, 150 (inaudible) improvement that you’re targeting capital that you announced today which is a big improvement probably will still not get to there I think. Thank you.
If I miss something in there I’m sure you’ll come back and repeat it. The Greek sovereign exposure and the improvements, this is receivable from the state or exposure to the state in the large sense rather than bonds. They have been reversing based on the market valuations. And there is still an impairment sitting in our books which as things progress we hope to be able to address sooner rather than later. But the buck has now been reversed if that is the gist of the question. In terms of deferred tax assets, deferred tax assets as you know under RFS you need to do your projections and see the recoverability thereof. We have about €4.4 billion of entitlements to deferred tax assets, of which we only recognize about €1.5 billion in order to be extremely conservative, which we are. Therefore we will not expect any fluctuations, any downturn fluctuations in the previous way.
As the economy improves and progresses, obviously this will allow us again staying extremely conservative, to maybe recognize more of that in the future. Not to mention the fact that we expect to be using these amounts in the future as opposed to just recognize them which is the best intention in any case. There was also a question I think on page 7 where you asked about the valuation results, etc., the impact of the translation. It’s a direct to equity impact because you’re translating the balance sheet of Turkey. So it’s not something that goes to the P&L. and as far as a small part which relates to the ISS investments, as you know that goes through to equity and will be reversed into the P&L only when it’s realized.
But the situation in Turkey is not the best right now as we all know. We wait and see how things happen and hopefully things will become much better sooner rather than later. The LME which is mentioned on page 7, the U.S prefs LME, this was the buyback that was run in June and the participation to that were registered on the 28th of June. But the settlement took place in July. So the accounting it will be showing in our accounting NAV formally in July. It’s not reflected in the June numbers. But it’s a direct equity impact not to the P&L. Was there something else?
Carriere Giovanni – Autonomous Research
Yeah. The DTA then is just what you’re allowed to calculate under the 10% cap and the rest of what you recognize you haven’t included that part?
No. if I misled you I’m sorry. We are recognizing on an accounting basis only the €1.5 billion. And from a regulatory point of view, we are recognizing about €1.2 billion thereof. So there’s €260 million that we’re not recognizing because of the 20% future introduced by the bankers as of the 1st of January.
The next question is from Mr. Antonio Ramirez of KBW. Please go ahead, sir.
Antonio Ramirez – KBW
A few questions for me on capital effectively. First, can you give us a sense when you expect the regulator to approve the models in Turkey for Finansbank? And I’m assuming that you’re still comfortable on the number you have calculated in terms of impact on recent assets. Second question, can you give us a little more color on this 100 to 150 basis points possibly impacting capital you expect from actions that you are taking and we should see over the next few quarters, in particular in terms of divestments. There has been talk about a couple of real estate transactions that you may complete. So if you can give us a little more color on how close we are and what’s the granularity of the potential transactions you can achieve.
And then thirdly also related to capital, you have the smallest buffer versus the minimum 9% EBA core tier-1 amongst your peers and effectively if we would be adjusting for the government press that at some point will have to be repaid, then the pure equity core tier-1 is still pretty low. So I understand that you will generate capital for (inaudible) and you may realize more from these asset disposals. But these 100 to 150 basis points addition that you may get in the next few quarters still is quite far from the level where the buffer is for some of your peers. So what I’m trying to get is what would be the buffer on top of 9% that you will feel comfortable with and if that implies necessary transaction with Finansbank. Thank you.
I’ll take this question. This is Petros Christodoulou. Listen, as you correctly said, we have a number of capital actions we’re working on at the moment and I can – you appreciate I cannot talk for all of them because a number of them are not in the public domain. But I will allude to some of them that you probably know that they’re already in progress. First one, the biggest example that there is, is the market is aware of is the sale of Astir Palace which is the entity we have, the hotel business that we have in the south coast of Athens and the process for which has started back in March. We have selected a shortlist of investors and we are now in the process – everybody is very laboriously working on this and leading to a binding offer deadline end of October 21st I think of October.
And that should be concluded if you like before yearend and settle the cash price Q1 ’14. Beyond that, there has been a number of – as you know, as a group, we have a quite diverse group and quite a number of businesses, non-core banking businesses that we can afford to put on the table that we are endowed with a very diverse like I said pool of assets and we are looking at prospective investors or for a number of them. So I cannot go into more detail. I can only tell you that you are aware of the assets – the non-core assets we have. We are talking. The important thing is that we’re looking at actions inside Greece. And everything we have said has not incorporated Turkey at all. So that should give you a hint of how much room and cushion we have before we touch Turkey.
The other question was on the IRB implementation in Turkey. Asking me when a regulator will approve something is something I will never respond to. The regulator has his own rhythms. All I can tell you it’s going very well. The Bank of Greece in August was examining models and my understanding is it went very well. So I expect to be able to announce pretty soon. But the regulator is the regulator.
Antonio Ramirez – KBW
Maybe if I can follow up. One of the aspects of my question is, what is the buffer on top of 9% you think is reasonable and especially taking into consideration that there is still quite a significant proportion of your equity core tier – of your core tier-1 coming from government press that in a couple of years you’re likely to repay.
It’s Petros again. I have answered that. Perhaps I was not clear enough. Look, the buffer is not the same for everybody. For us, given how many options we have available, we don’t need that queue to buffer because we have a very diverse and deep pool of assets, non-core banking assets that we can dip in and pick and sell or divest. So we can generate and release capital. So if you like I believe a very rough number is 100 basis points over the 9% if this is what you’re asking for. But we have – like I said we have a quite diverse pool of assets that we can dip into.
The next question is from Mr. Nitu Florent of Citigroup. Please go ahead, sir.
Nitu Florent – Citigroup
A few questions for my side. First of all on NPL formation, coming down a touch in Greece this quarter. I know you can’t look through a crystal ball, but the quarter is already quite advanced. Just wondering if that is a trend you see continuing and if you would perhaps give us a bit of guidance for what you’re observing at the moment. And second question is on the deposit cost in Greece. Clearly you’re already paying lows in the market as you show well and that seems to be pretty flattish. Do you expect with the conservation we’ve seen in the market for some opportunities to bring that down a bit more or are you feeling it’s crossing at least for the near term on that side? And then my third question is on FTE. Very strong deposit collection and now returning to profit. Where do we go from here? Is the intention to continue to reduce the funding gap and try to turn along these operations, possibly looking for integration opportunities with other units over there and gaining market share? What’s your view on these units? Thank you.
Okay, let’s start with the NPL formation. You’re right. We have data through July and in front of me some stuff for August. August as you know is a strange month for lots of people indication which distorts the data. But what I see is that the good performance of Q2 is continuing and is actually improving in Q3. So the migration of those domestically is on a – continuing to moderate in Q3.
SEE, you’re right. We’re collecting all our deposits. We wish there were a few more lending opportunities but right now that is not the case. Europe is picking up and SEE will not be far behind. So I think there will be more business being generated. Only one country has needs to close a bit more than its financing. That’s Romania. The others have surplus liquidity and are going to be using as soon as they can. So we’re very happy with what’s happened in SEE over the past two years of restructuring. As you know we have integrated SEE. It is not country by country. It’s a common IT platform, common operating platform which gives us cost synergies in SEE. We plan to grow the business and not sure we can purchase anything under state aid rules.
So and then on the restructuring plans, as you know there are various discussion about opportunity there, but that is a discussion to be had in the future. But in terms of a standalone, we have the best liquidity position in SEE from the other big banks and as well as other banks a very few people who have invested in SEE can brag about a loan deposit ratio of 100. The key was NPLs and they seem to be moderating. And actually in Q3 as you saw we had zero formation due to collections. So collections are picking up. So it’s a business that we think is part of the strategy of NBG in terms of diversification of revenue. It has good growth prospects going forward. So it’s something that is profitable and we plan to keep it.
And then the last question was on deposits.
The deposit costs as you know and correctly said, if you like we are at the floor end of the deposit costs in the Greek domain. But we have in Q2 we have had some – the banking environment in Greece was still unsettled if you like and had not completed the consolidation phase. And as you always know that the deposits are always kept up by the marginal rate that some people are paying which was usually determined by the weakest link in the system. So we are very hopeful that now that the banking business in Greece has consolidated, now we can all start sailing south and the first ones to take advantage of this will be ourselves. We are seeing lower funding costs in progressing in Q3. Now, one thing you should note is that in Q2 we have not acquired banks that have been high deposit payers. So we have not if you like seen the deposit cost coming down because obviously at that time we were busy with the EuroBank acquisition and working on the merger. So we stayed off the shopping spree that took place at that time with high deposit payers.
Nitu Florent – Citigroup
I can follow up on the deposits. My key question and I guess this is for the system, but impacts you as well is, where are we going to see deposit growth from? Household income is still under pressure. Repatriation of fund, I don’t know if that’s something we can think about, because I guess if the system RVR remains quite above 100%, is that now rates that at some point completion comes back. Just wondering how about your thoughts on that.
Yes, I agree with you that competition is there and until everybody’s head is above water the confusion will stay there. We see the main inflow of our deposits coming in from abroad and this is money coming back into Greece and they don’t go necessarily to the highest payer. They go to the safest deposit harbors. And we have – I would say the bulk, the massive bulk of our deposit increase we’re seeing through the summer is coming from growth.
If I can add a macro angle to your question. There’s two ways that you can create deposits. One is capital inflows and as Petros mentioned, we are seeing capital inflows. The current account is basically zero and we’re starting to see various sources of capital flows, whether it’s from privatizations, whether it’s the disbursements of the program, which used abroad in terms of current account. That said, now they’re staying inside. So we’re seeing from abroad some various sources of liquidity coming in. and finally, as constant assurance, people start moving in money into the banks and that creates its own money. That’s the money multiplier which collapsed during the crisis, getting enough steam as confidence returns and people put money into the banks and creates more deposits as a multiple accounts. So that’s the circumstance of deposits that you see as the economy turns to spurring growth in ’14.
(Operator Instructions). There are no more questions registered at this time. You may now proceed with your closing statements.
I would like to thank you all for taking the time to join us this our afternoon, your morning and we look forward to be in contact with you. You have the contact details with Mr. Papagrigoris, our Head of IR. Please liaise with him and we’ll be always standing by to respond to your questions. Thank you all again for joining us. Have a nice evening. Bye-bye.
Ladies and gentlemen, the conference is now over. You may disconnect your telephone. Thank you for calling. Goodbye.
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