Has the Market Already Hit Its High for the Year? 19 comments
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Market followers love to make timing predictions. These predictions come in all time frames and flavors:
- The market has made the high for the day, and will now trade down. Or the opposite.
- This is the bottom. Or the top.
- We have seen the highs (or lows) for the year.
- Or when the Dow was at 9500, would we see 10000 before 9000?
Bold Predictions
Doug Kass, on August 26th, called the high. He was off by a few weeks and a few percentage points, but he has continued to argue for this viewpoint in columns at TheStreet.com and in appearances on CNBC.
His colleague Jim Cramer has now agreed, and recommends reducing portfolios.
James Altucher sees explosive potential, after reviewing a list of inaccurate bearish predictions, writes as follows:
The economy is recovering nicely, says Altucher, and 2010 is going to be a huge year. Companies that stopped making things and fired thousands of employees last winter out of fear of a second Great Depression will restock their shelves and start hiring like mad. The federal stimulus, which has barely kicked in yet, will really get cranking. Consumers will find jobs much easier to get, and the resulting optimism (and income) will prompt them to start spending again.
And the market?
It's going to the moon, says Altucher.
Ken Fisher is looking for a 20-25% gain "by January" which is not quite the end of the year. Fisher earns one of the highest ratings from CXO Advisory, one of our featured sites.
Less Bold Predictions
Barry Ritholtz on October 27th predicted a possible 5% to 15% correction, after leaning bullish for much of the year.
Our own official predictions, recorded weekly, were correctly bullish through September, but shifted to neutral two weeks ago. We use a three-week time horizon for this forecast.
What Does it All Mean?
It all depends upon one's time frame. Are you trying to trade the market intra-day? Are you using a one-month time horizon? Do you have the long run in mind?
Each investor is different -- different in risk tolerance, time to retirement, time to a need for college funds, mix of asset allocation. It is not all about market timing.
In my conversations I find that most investors are missing the big picture. Peter Lynch (with the Dow at 4000 or so) famously noted that he could not predict the next 1000 point move, but he was confident of the next 10,000 points.
I agree, and here is the main problem:
The current fear dates from last year, causing most to miss the market rebound. Now many feel that they have "missed the move" and what they read reinforces the fear.
Here are some thoughts that I am sharing with my own clients:
- My initial target for this year was the pre-Lehman level from last fall. We have not yet reached this target, but we will. We have averted the Great Depression that the market was forecasting at that time.
- There are many attractive stocks. I am selling some holdings only because there are others that offer even better chances. Try to focus on specific company chances instead of general market commentary.
- The analysis of economic prospects is polluted by political punditry. Many commentators have a vested interest in a certain political outcome. Others are trying to sell books or high commission products. It is a minefield for the general and inexperienced reader.
- Economic data continues to improve, despite a well-orchestrated chorus of critics.
- The stimulus efforts have worked, and there is plenty more in the pipeline. Most of the pop economists have the viewpoint that the stimulus will stop and the economy will fail.
Reactions on the Economy
Stimulus efforts may jump start a real move. Check out yesterday's auto sales data, after the cash for clunkers initiative, and you will see a real improvement -- small, but a start, not a bubble.
- Most of the stimulus funds are still in the pipeline.
- The Obama Administration is committed to keeping this going until it works, including things like the incentives for home buyers.
- The major complaints -- deficit spending -- are in a different time frame.
- Watch Warren Buffett, who made the deal of his lifetime buying a railroad yesterday.
It is a time to separate one's political viewpoint from one's investment viewpoint. Those who are fighting the Fed, fighting Obama, and fighting Congress are spitting into the wind.
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This article has 19 comments:
Great closing. And I would add: the wind will throw back the spit to their faces. I do not know how many little chickens are missing the run of the market due to political views. But if this is happening they just deserve it.
It seems to me the market does need a correction of 10% or so, but the bears keep investing on the dips (are they closet bulls?), and thus have stopped the market from having a 10% correction at least 3 times since March (with dips of only 4-5%).
I am reading both sides, and just in case the bears are right, I have been investing with trailing stops since March...it is working nicely.
Obviously MS is not convinced that this rally is real, yes its up, yes paper profits are there but they know it could all evaporate in less time then it to to accrue and WS will not give them a heads up until they are safetly out, this is what MS fears because this is what always happens, so if MS isnt cooperating this time there is nobody to blame but WS, that it bothers WS so much might mean that MS will not be the pigeon this time around
I have heard many times that the market is strong and that "we've turned the corner, the recession is over". In that time, the market has spun around 9,500 to 10,000 as if it was quagmired in that range.
Last week it was supposed to be moving forward. I heard a lot of the Rah! Rah! Rah! - and then it dropped 250 points.
I don't put my faith into charts and based the push-pull dynamics of issues surrounding the market, it is not a bull market nor a full bear market. I still believe it is a "donkey market" where because of these different dynamics pulling it in opposite directions, it is not going anywhere.
It is being stubborn to move out of that 9,500-10,000 range. Blame whomever - that has been the reality of the tape.
I do not think the market will break out of the 10,000 range by year-end.
On Nov 04 07:15 AM AndrewBaker wrote:
> Yes, it's not sensible to ignore the political influence, biased
> and unhelpful though it is, and concentrating on specific stocks
> is a good idea, though even the best fall in a downturn. So, follow
> the trend appears to me the best way right now, even if it goes against
> what one believes is the "right" direction. And having tight stops
> is so important in doing this. (Even your good stocks can be bought
> back cheaper after they've triggered a stop-loss.)
"Bull markets are born on pessimism, grow on skepticism, mature on optimism, and die on euphoria" (Sir John Templeton). I think we are far from euphoria so think this bull market has a long way to go over the longer term as well.
On Nov 04 11:19 AM TurtleTrader72 wrote:
> The fact that most people don't trust this market makes me believe
> that we have more upside to go even over the short term. This distrust
> was technicaly seen last week when the VIX made a relatively dramatic
> move to the upside (21 to 31). This shows us how quickly fear built
> up during a short down turn in the market. In my opinion, this is
> actually a good thing because fear (relatively speaking) is a healthy
> thing in an uptrending market. Remember the saying, a bull market
> loves to climb a wall of worry. With that being said, the charts
> may also be indicating that the VIX has topped out (at least in the
> short term) indicating a temporary bottom. However, I think we will
> have to wait to close out the week to confirm this. I feel that it
> is important to keep in mind that as long as people are worrying
> about this market and the economy, the uptrend has a better chance
> of continuing.
>
> "Bull markets are born on pessimism, grow on skepticism, mature on
> optimism, and die on euphoria" (Sir John Templeton). I think we are
> far from euphoria so think this bull market has a long way to go
> over the longer term as well.
I hope this helps.
On Nov 04 12:01 PM enigmaman wrote:
> So I wonder, since main street is not participating in this rally
> there money is not in play not a factor except for cash, bonds, treasuries
> or buried in the back yard. Pessimist are non believers so they are
> either out or short, but shorts seem to be out of vogue now. Skeptics
> are either in and worried, out and worried or short and worried so
> do they really matter. Optimist, there in and loving it green shoots
> all over the place. There is no euphoria yet but still I wonder how
> this market rises without the needed volume, seems like you have
> a group of investors moving this market and doing very well like
> GS batting near 1000 quarter after quarter, doesnt that make you
> wonder, I mean we have unbelievable amounts of cash moving to safe
> havens every month, who is buying
Are those of us here on Seeking Alpha Main Street? Are AAII members? Because if so, a lot of Main Streeters--judging from their comments--have in fact invested in this rally and profited from it. I know that I have, and I suspect I'd be considered a Main Streeter. For the record, I've loved this rally the whole way. To me, anyway, it was predictableand sensible, and it has been profitable.
On Nov 04 03:50 PM TurtleTrader72 wrote:
> Interesting reply...However, historically main street does not participate
> in most bull runs until they are almost over. Normaly it is the instituional
> guys like GS that get in near the bottom. When you start to hear
> that main street is getting involved it is usualy time to get out.
> I agree that it is suspicious but what makes you think the market
> cannot rise on low volume? I would speculate that if volume start
> to show a noticable increase it would probably be a good sign the
> a top is near. At least in the intermediate term..
> I hope this helps.
>
> On Nov 04 12:01 PM enigmaman wrote:
There are many other stats that confirm retail investors are sitting this rally out, if they did get ion at 20, 30, 40, 50% gaiins do you really think they will get in now as the market seems to be rolling over, not very likely!
On Nov 04 04:46 PM David Van Knapp wrote:
> Practically every commenter here agrees that Main Street has not
> participated in, does not love, this market...meaning the rally since
> March. What is the data that backs that up? I'm not challenging it,
> I'm just wondering why everybody accepts this with no hesitation.
> How does one measure "Main Street's" participation in the market?
>
>
> Are those of us here on Seeking Alpha Main Street? Are AAII members?
> Because if so, a lot of Main Streeters--judging from their comments--have
> in fact invested in this rally and profited from it. I know that
> I have, and I suspect I'd be considered a Main Streeter. For the
> record, I've loved this rally the whole way. To me, anyway, it was
> predictableand sensible, and it has been profitable.
On Nov 04 12:01 PM enigmaman wrote:
> So I wonder, since main street is not participating in this rally
> there money is not in play not a factor except for cash, bonds, treasuries
> or buried in the back yard. Pessimist are non believers so they are
> either out or short, but shorts seem to be out of vogue now. Skeptics
> are either in and worried, out and worried or short and worried so
> do they really matter. Optimist, there in and loving it green shoots
> all over the place. There is no euphoria yet but still I wonder how
> this market rises without the needed volume, seems like you have
> a group of investors moving this market and doing very well like
> GS batting near 1000 quarter after quarter, doesnt that make you
> wonder, I mean we have unbelievable amounts of cash moving to safe
> havens every month, who is buying
In fact, there are many signs of danger and potential danger in the markets if one looks closely. These signs can be seen on both a fundamental and technical basis.
I am writing a blog series titled "Danger In The Markets?" that shows this on a technical analysis basis. For those interested, it can be found at my blog here:
www.economicgreenfield.../