America Is Creating Green Energy Jobs...in China

A quite fascinating read in the New York Times about the cross-section of much of what is broken in America. We've often statee the focus on green energy as a "new dawn of jobs" is a bit over the top, considering Germany is about 15 years ahead of the U.S. in "green tech" and Japan about a decade ahead. Even China is now revving ahead of us.... so how are we going to have a new wave of work in the U.S. based on green energy again? [Aug 25, 2009: UK Telegraph - China Powers Ahead as it Seizes the Green Energy Crown from Europe] [Aug 28, 2008: China to Subsidize Wind Turbines] [Jun 19, 2009: Reuters - Incentives Add Shine to China's Solar Drive] As you can see, China for example (and Germany... and Japan) have heavily subsidized long range plans to go green, pretty much impossible to compete with on a global footprint if the home country refuses any similar form of subsidization.

However we are not allowed to have an industrial policy in the U.S. because to do so would make us "socialist" - like those darn Germans. Instead we'll let much of our manufacturing rinse away to cheaper locales because well, that's just how it works. Except in Germany apparently. The statistic that caught my eye in this story was due to this lack of manufacturing capability 84% of the money thus far allocated for "green" is going to foreign companies.

The rest of the piece deals with a company we actually had a position in during parts of 2007 and 2008, A-Power Energy (APWR) and how they have won a contract to do wind energy ... in Texas.

• News last week of the first major influx of Chinese capital and wind turbine manufacturing expertise into the renewable energy market in the United States — a 600-megawatt wind farm planned for the plains of west Texas — had many readers of the Green Inc. blog in a state of agitation.
• The details of the deal known so far: Contingent on financing from Chinese commercial banks — and no small measure of funding from the U.S. economic stimulus package — A-Power Energy Generation Systems, a Nasdaq-listed company based in the Chinese industrial city of Shenyang, would provide 240 of its 2.5-megawatt wind turbines for a 36,000-acre, or 14,600-hectare, utility-scale wind farm in west Texas to be operated by Cielo Wind Power, a developer based in Austin.
• The total cost of the project, which was brokered in part by the U.S. Renewable Energy Group, an American private equity company, was estimated at $1.5 billion.

Here is where it gets tricky - as they say devil in details:

• “This planned $1.5 billion investment in wind energy will spur tremendous growth in the renewable energy sector,” Mr. McGarr was quoted in a news release as saying, “and directly create hundreds of high-paying American jobs.” (rah! rah!)
• The devil, though — as many observers pointed out by the end of the week — is in the details. The group’s calculations last week put the number of American jobs at a little more than 300 — most of them temporary construction jobs, along with about 30 permanent positions once the wind farm is operating. Mr. McGarr told The Wall Street Journal that more than 2,000 Chinese jobs would be created by the deal. (oops)
• That, along with the fact that the project was hoping to secure 30 percent, or $450 million, of its financing from U.S. stimulus funds, was enough to send tempers flaring.

Boo Yah! American stimulus - creating 300 temporary jobs in America, and 30 real ones... and 2000 in China. Sort of symbolic really - considering the money for said stimulus was borrowed from China in the first place. But don't let reality get in the way of trumpets blaring about "green tech" and "job creation!"

Interesting reader comments:

• “I don’t understand why China is exporting wind energy to the U.S.,” wrote Mark from New York City. “Isn’t this exactly the kind of project a United States company could and should be doing?”
• Another reader — Drew from Boston — was more blunt: “Again, China is playing the West for a sucker,” he wrote. “We send them our engineering, they get the manufacturing work and experience.” (but that doesn't explain the success of Spain and Germany in renewable energy, Drew)
• “Why are U.S. stimulus funds being used to subsidize manufacturing jobs in China,” (because Americans won't do the work ....Germans will? Or is it Spaniards?) wrote a reader at Green Inc., who pointed out that American officials had repeatedly warned that the United States could lose its competitive edge on renewable energy manufacturing to China.
• “Thank you for killing the U.S. windmill industry,” wrote a reader from Chicago at Green Inc. “Thank-you, U.S. industrialists and financiers, for having us buy these things with financing and grants emanating from money borrowed from China.”

China obviously has no qualms with protectionism...Europeans have also complained strongly about this.

• As Keith Bradsher wrote earlier this year in The New York Times, by establishing prohibitive quotas for homegrown solar and wind turbine equipment, and disqualifying bids from foreign companies on dubious grounds, the Chinese leadership has muscled out American and European manufacturers of clean energy seeking to gain a foothold in China’s burgeoning market for renewables.

And it gets better than that in the bigger picture - when we look at more than 1 deal:

• In a somewhat intriguing coincidence of timing, Mr. Choma and his colleagues published, on the same day the Chinese-American wind farm deal was unveiled, a detailed analysis of where stimulus money aimed at creating renewable energy projects and jobs in the United States was flowing.
• By Mr. Choma’s reckoning, 84 percent of the $1.05 billion in clean-energy grants distributed by the government since Sept. 1 has gone to foreign renewable energy companies — specifically, wind companies. Through its American subsidiary, Iberdrola, a global manufacturer of wind turbines based in Spain, commanded most of that funding: $545 million
• “We broke down some of the numbers and found out that the program funded 11 projects that installed 982 turbines,” Mr. Choma wrote in an e-mail message, “and 695 were built by foreign manufacturers.”
• To some extent, this is hardly surprising. As Mr. Choma noted, the American clean energy manufacturing base — particularly its wind turbine production capability — is tiny compared with that of Europe.

Not to worry - there is still hope! Only $1B down, and $21B more to go. Certainly by this time next year, countless wind turbine mfg plants will have spread across the American heartland and instead of 84% of all monies going overseas, a far more palpable number... such as 82% of the remaining $21B will be a direct transfer from our grandchildren's future liabilities balance to foreign entities. Boo yah!

• And to be sure, the dispensation of the $22 billion in stimulus funding that is supposed to go toward renewable energy projects has only just begun.

And once more the key below.... as we hollow out manufacturing because that kind of work is too expensive in the US and is best left for cheap locales like... Germany.

And as Mr. Choma noted,

when it comes to stimulating the economy, it is the manufacturing that matters. (here all this time I thought it was wasting trillions on pushing up home prices and getting people to daytrade their deed?) He points to a 2004 study from the Renewable Energy Policy Project, a research institute based in Washington. The institute found that for every 1,000 megawatts of installed wind capacity had the potential to generate as many as 4,300 jobs, of which about 3,000 are created at the manufacturing level. (oh well, we still have our financial oligarchs who can help finance the clean energy deals, and while it doesn't create a lot of jobs, it creates a lot of wealth for that tiny sliver of society - and that's the important thing. Because then - per dogma - that wealth will trickle on, err trickle down to the rest of the society... especially former workers in manufacturing now living the middle class dream as Walmart clerks)

Comments

[John Cordes:]

As boorish as it may sound, the Bush administration and a Republican Congress wasted eight years, refusing to pass the significant green energy subsidies for wind and solar. Hardly surprising when you consider their fealty to big oil. China has been overtly promoting polysilicon production, wind turbine production and domestic consumption of both for quite some time. They have used tax abatement, eased financing and subsidized utility costs. The Repbulicans dithered on this until 2008 when an anemic bill was finally passed at the end of the year. No surprises then. I have owned APWR for a year.

Nov 04 08:19 AM

[wind4me:]

U make great points for politics, why not just INVEST into APWR and play along with the Chinese in a capitalistic manner since APWR is profitable and APWR prints profits and APWR is going to be a monster in green China Energy???
www.Wind4me.com

Yes, my FOCUS is APWR and GREEN CHINA ENERGY! Why fight the tape and the trend??? Al Gore is commenting on Twittter right now about APWR, President Obama is flying to China Nov 15th for a NEW GLOBAL CLIMATE program.......the trend is your friend and the trend is China to go Green!

Nov 04 08:53 AM

[tplinston:]

Also interesting to point out that the A-Power kit is licensed from a Germany company Fuhrländer so a slice of your stimulus is heading there as well.

It's also worth remembering that the 86% odd of funds heading out of the country also includes larger portions given to companies such as Iberdrola. In reality these companies simply acquired an American company and still employ quite a few US people and the bulk of the money is heading back into the US to fund 2010 development. Providing futher constuction and O&M jobs.

Dig a little

Nov 04 08:54 AM

[wind4me:]

also, (AMSC) supplies Furhlandher and AMSC is a USA company

China is going to supply the REST of the world and if U focus just on the Chinese needs for power , and especially GREEN CLEAN POWER, there minimum demands for the next 10 years is 150,000,000MW's ........that is 150GW's of power
Vestas building four wind turbine plants in USA and Vestas will end up shipping wind turbines to China and those Vestas jobs are USA Green Jobs and over 4000 are being hired as we type here in Colorado........why fight the tape, get on the (APWR) Green Train and ride for 2020 needs and global clean power while profiting along the way! Chinese cannot invest into APWR since APWR is a Naz listed USA company!

On Nov 04 08:54 AM tplinston wrote:

> Also interesting to point out that the A-Power kit is licensed from
> a Germany company Fuhrländer so a slice of your stimulus is heading
> there as well.
>
> It's also worth remembering that the 86% odd of funds heading out
> of the country also includes larger portions given to companies such
> as Iberdrola. In reality these companies simply acquired an American
> company and still employ quite a few US people and the bulk of the
> money is heading back into the US to fund 2010 development. Providing
> futher constuction and O&M jobs.
>
> Dig a little

Nov 04 09:03 AM

[John Galt:]

The irony is that the same people that scream for green energy now, are the ones that killed green nuke power in the 70's. That was also right about the time that "global cooling" was all over Time. If they weren't anti everything except solar & wind, we'd actually be emitting less carbon now by using more nuke/natral gas. Global cooling, global warming, global climate change

There is a scary crisis and we need to fix it! Watch the news, stop doing what you are doing, buy something new, and listen to US... the experts!

Nov 04 09:11 AM

[Fred W:]

Face it. We are tied to China's success. Creating jobs in China might actually be more important to the U.S. than China--given the corner that we have painted ourselves into. Instability/unemployment in China could trigger the end of China's buying of Treasury Bonds--at least at the absurdly low rates of today.

Nov 04 09:52 AM

[wind4me:]

APWR and China's success is our success as INVESTORS in APWR.........President Obama flies to China Nov 15th to announce a NEW CHINA GLOBAL CLIMATE plan.......watch how this plays out!
Anyone besides me notice the idiot Kevin Shulle tood down his comments on this article saying APWR would report a 3Q loss?? what a joke his ""China Hits a Road Block''' article truly is!

On Nov 04 09:52 AM Fred W wrote:

> Face it. We are tied to China's success. Creating jobs in China might
> actually be more important to the U.S. than China--given the corner
> that we have painted ourselves into. Instability/unemployment in
> China could trigger the end of China's buying of Treasury Bonds--at
> least at the absurdly low rates of today.

Nov 04 09:56 AM

[jerrydd:]

John Galt, Nuke was killed by it's high cost and badly run companies, so bad no insurance company would insure them. Nor do you mention the huge subsidies they got, still get.

But do we need wind, solar farms? Far more cost effective is home, small business size units which because they have no land, transmission line, overhead or stockholder costs, are 2-3x's as cost effective. Now add utilities double the electric price, you save 2x's as much.

Nov 04 10:02 AM

[jerrydd:]

Here is how to do this better. We can have a stimulus that costs almost nothing to the taxpayer, in fact paid a lot by Iran, Russia, oil dictators!!

How is start up loans for RE companies and energy eff ones. Let most anyone with a good business plan through the SBA get start up loans to build or install windgenerators, solar CSP unit, CHP, small lightweight, aero 3 wheel EV's, etc. Then loans to buy, install, etc these.

Loans for home, building eff upgrades from windows, insulation, etc are next. This would put construction, material workers back to work.

All these can be paid for in energy savings in 5 yrs so no new income costs either. This will create about 3 million jobs directly and probably 6 million indirectly of people supporting them.

Next is a fossil fuel tax to pay their full cost of the direct, indirect subsidies we already pay in our income tax, health care, etc. it's time those who make, benefit from those costs to pay them It should be a $1.50/gal on oil and about double the price of coal.

But you say a tax will kill the economy. Not if it's put in over 2 yrs at 4% each month and loans given to buy more eff cars, etc to cut people's costs. Switching trucks, semi's to NG is very cost effective now being under 50% of the cost of diesel/gasoline. This can in 5 yrs cut imported oil needs.

The beauty of this is oil, coal will drop in price making Iran, Russia, oil dictators pay most of the oil tax, coal is only 25% of your electric bill so it won't go up much.

But new, more eff cars, trucks, EV's, PHEV's and mass transit will create more new jobs too.

The fossil fuel tax revenue, 1/3 would go to a tax cut so those people paying it have the extra money needed if they continue to use the same amount or better, use less and have extra income, the more likely outcome. 1/3 to to help switching to more eff cars, trucks, homes, buildings and 1/3 to balance the budget fossil fuels have been a large part in making.

So this program would have a net increase of about 8-10 million jobs of both direct and supporting those who have the new jobs, solve our imported oil problem, let us leave the Persian gulf between the 2 are about $1T/yr in a few yrs if we don't, stop subsidizing our enemies, oil/coal corporations and balance the budget.. All at little cost to the gov, in fact get rid of our debt on our children and make our country strong again.

Or we will be broke, at war, our enemies strong and we will be weak. To me it's the only real patriotic way to go.

Nov 04 10:08 AM

[John Galt:]

<Here is how to do this better. We can have a stimulus that costs almost nothing to the taxpayer, in fact paid a lot by Iran, Russia, oil dictators!!>

<Next is a fossil fuel tax to pay their full cost>

Ahhh yes, have your cake and eat it too. Your plan is a patriotic silver bullet that fixes everything and costs nothing. It will cost tax payers almost nothing if we just add a tax. Up is down and down is up!

AND, we'll be sticking it to those evil immoral people who live in Iran and Russia. They are mean greedy people who make money on oil and charge us money.

Nov 04 10:17 AM

[wind4me:]

Being an Ex Nuke Engineer, let me tell U the problems of Nuclear.......France has best plants in world an all are socialized govt run and all are identical makes and models w/ interchangeable parts........we, in the USA, have nothing but American stupidity capitalism at work and NONE of our units are alike and all are privately run running the costs to the moon.......Nukes in France POWER 70% of France.......they run perfectly.......the USA is idiots in nuclear plain and simple , yet I agree, WE NEED MORE NUKES to get away from Coal and OIL

Lets copy the French model and run nukes forever!

On Nov 04 10:17 AM John Galt wrote:

> <Here is how to do this better. We can have a stimulus that costs
> almost nothing to the taxpayer, in fact paid a lot by Iran, Russia,
> oil dictators!!>
>
> <Next is a fossil fuel tax to pay their full cost>
>
> Ahhh yes, have your cake and eat it too. Your plan is a patriotic
> silver bullet that fixes everything and costs nothing. It will cost
> tax payers almost nothing if we just add a tax. Up is down and down
> is up!
>
> AND, we'll be sticking it to those evil immoral people who live in
> Iran and Russia. They are mean greedy people who make money on oil
> and charge us money.

Nov 04 10:35 AM

[TraderMark:]

I expect the next "stimulus" plan (but don't call it that) to be heavy on retrofitting for energy efficiency. Surely will be announced first few months of 2010 ... we need a new stimulus every 12 months to keep this "dynamic" economy going.


On Nov 04 10:08 AM jerrydd wrote:

>
> Here is how to do this better. We can have a stimulus that costs
> almost nothing to the taxpayer, in fact paid a lot by Iran, Russia,
> oil dictators!!
>
> How is start up loans for RE companies and energy eff ones. Let most
> anyone with a good business plan through the SBA get start up loans
> to build or install windgenerators, solar CSP unit, CHP, small lightweight,
> aero 3 wheel EV's, etc. Then loans to buy, install, etc these.<br/>
>
> Loans for home, building eff upgrades from windows, insulation, etc
> are next. This would put construction, material workers back to work.
>
>
> All these can be paid for in energy savings in 5 yrs so no new income
> costs either. This will create about 3 million jobs directly and
> probably 6 million indirectly of people supporting them.
>
> Next is a fossil fuel tax to pay their full cost of the direct, indirect
> subsidies we already pay in our income tax, health care, etc. it's
> time those who make, benefit from those costs to pay them It should
> be a $1.50/gal on oil and about double the price of coal.
>
> But you say a tax will kill the economy. Not if it's put in over
> 2 yrs at 4% each month and loans given to buy more eff cars, etc
> to cut people's costs. Switching trucks, semi's to NG is very cost
> effective now being under 50% of the cost of diesel/gasoline. This
> can in 5 yrs cut imported oil needs.
>
> The beauty of this is oil, coal will drop in price making Iran, Russia,
> oil dictators pay most of the oil tax, coal is only 25% of your electric
> bill so it won't go up much.
>
> But new, more eff cars, trucks, EV's, PHEV's and mass transit will
> create more new jobs too.
>
> The fossil fuel tax revenue, 1/3 would go to a tax cut so those people
> paying it have the extra money needed if they continue to use the
> same amount or better, use less and have extra income, the more likely
> outcome. 1/3 to to help switching to more eff cars, trucks, homes,
> buildings and 1/3 to balance the budget fossil fuels have been a
> large part in making.
>
> So this program would have a net increase of about 8-10 million jobs
> of both direct and supporting those who have the new jobs, solve
> our imported oil problem, let us leave the Persian gulf between the
> 2 are about $1T/yr in a few yrs if we don't, stop subsidizing our
> enemies, oil/coal corporations and balance the budget.. All at little
> cost to the gov, in fact get rid of our debt on our children and
> make our country strong again.
>
> Or we will be broke, at war, our enemies strong and we will be weak.
> To me it's the only real patriotic way to go.

Nov 04 10:47 AM

[TraderMark:]

wait, I thought the government could do nothing right?

Or are the French government workers just better than US? Can't have it both way...

p.s. you are in danger of bein a socialist with the thought that France succeeds in anything. Be careful, the crowd loves to snipe! ;)

I do agree with much of your commentary. Another problem in US will be NIMBY - we cant even put wind turbines in the ocean because it might obstruct the view of the Kennedy family; we haven't build a new refiner in 30+ years, so a nuclear plant? Not in MY BACKYARD - boo yah.


On Nov 04 10:35 AM wind4me wrote:

>
> Being an Ex Nuke Engineer, let me tell U the problems of Nuclear.......France
> has best plants in world an all are socialized govt run and all are
> identical makes and models w/ interchangeable parts........we, in
> the USA, have nothing but American stupidity capitalism at work and
> NONE of our units are alike and all are privately run running the
> costs to the moon.......Nukes in France POWER 70% of France.......they
> run perfectly.......the USA is idiots in nuclear plain and simple
> , yet I agree, WE NEED MORE NUKES to get away from Coal and OIL<br/>
>
> Lets copy the French model and run nukes forever!
>
> On Nov 04 10:17 AM John Galt wrote:

Nov 04 10:50 AM

[connorport:]

One thing we are forgetting when it comes to the American support for
China is that we have been supporting them to this level for decades. Everytime you walk into Wally World you support more Chinese jobs than American. I have to agree with Wind4Me, we take from them by being the smarter investor and investing into their growth. I bought APWR at $3.53 when everyone said to run and Cramer said no comment. Let us see how this company plays its hands. They do have an American counterpart in this deal with GE as long as GE quits moving american jobs to Mexico and lowering its quality standards. We can own a piece of the pie if we choose to. I am Long APWR, SNRY, GE, XDSL to play the greentech ride. Get on or get run over.

Nov 04 10:55 AM

[John Galt:]

<On Nov 04 10:47 AM TraderMark wrote:

> I expect the next "stimulus" plan (but don't call it that) to be
> heavy on retrofitting for energy efficiency. Surely will be announced
> first few months of 2010 ... we need a new stimulus every 12 months
> to keep this "dynamic" economy going.>

So what ever happened to "rebuilding our infrastructre" anyway? "Building bridges instead of bombs"?

Building briges to nowhere, airports in the boonies, and clearing bike paths by the grand canyon isn't the rebuilding that most people wanted. Bridges instead of bombs must not include Preadator drones bombing Pakistan huh? The stimulus plan was a giant bailout of state budgets and we will have another stimulus plan.

Transportation workers in Philly are striking for an 11% increase in wages, 11% increase in pensions, and 0 contributions... This is while we have 10%... errr 10% unemployment and plenty of people that would love to have their jobs. We have budget shortfalls and they are on strike for more money. Go figure. Where's the gipper when you need him?

Nov 04 11:04 AM

[connorport:]

I agree completely but politics will keep nuclear power at bay and money will talk. As long as we do not disturb the "Dance of the Prairie Chicken" as the author says we are good to go. China has been here for a long time and are here to stay. American influence has already spread to all points of the Globe and we will see American enterprise grow once again as the world needs it. Our technologies touch nearly all people on the globe and we are just getting started.


On Nov 04 09:11 AM John Galt wrote:

> The irony is that the same people that scream for green energy now,
> are the ones that killed green nuke power in the 70's. That was
> also right about the time that "global cooling" was all over Time.
> If they weren't anti everything except solar &amp; wind, we'd actually
> be emitting less carbon now by using more nuke/natral gas. Global
> cooling, global warming, global climate change
>
> There is a scary crisis and we need to fix it! Watch the news, stop
> doing what you are doing, buy something new, and listen to US...
> the experts!

Nov 04 11:06 AM

[connorport:]

The world can't afford to let the US fail. They depend on us a lot more than we depend on them. America needs to first become energy independent and then we can flex our superiority once more.

Nov 04 11:09 AM

[John Galt:]

On Nov 04 10:35 AM wind4me wrote:
> Being an Ex Nuke Engineer, let me tell U the problems of Nuclear.......France
> has best plants in world an all are socialized govt run and all are
> identical makes and models w/ interchangeable parts........we, in
> the USA, have nothing but American stupidity capitalism at work and
> NONE of our units are alike and all are privately run running the
> costs to the moon.......Nukes in France POWER 70% of France.......they
> run perfectly.......the USA is idiots in nuclear plain and simple
> , yet I agree, WE NEED MORE NUKES to get away from Coal and OIL<br/>
>
> Lets copy the French model and run nukes forever!
>
> On Nov 04 10:17 AM John Galt wrote:

Many countries around the world are planning for nuke power. Popping up Nuke Plants takes foresight. I used to be an investor in CCJ and UEX.TO when there was a huge supply & demand imbalance and the price of uranium was spiking up. I wouldn't exactly call it a free market as the industry is heavily regulated.

If we were be serious on using less Carbon we'd be using more Nukes and Nat Gas...

The US has 90 years and rising supply of proven nat gas reserves
Nuke Power is efficient, clean, and we would be obtaining U from friendly countries like Canada, or neighbors to the north eh, Australia, domestically, and Kazakhstan from Borat's people... oh, and we'd help Russia in disarming part of their nuclear weapons arsenal.

Nov 04 11:13 AM

[Alphameister:]

He who has the money calls the shots. If we need China to finance green-energy projects in the U.S. (whether directly or indirectly), we should hardly be surprised that they are going to want a substantial percentage of the jobs that go with such projects. It's a win-win for both countries. APWR is one of my major holdings.

Nov 04 12:16 PM

[TraderMark:]

We have a complete disassociation of the public worker v the private worker

I eagerly await the day this comes to a head. Until then keep layering on wage increases, and pensions paid for by the private worker who is trying to tread water. When all else fails just put it on the tab of the grandchild as a form of bailout.

Rinse. Wash. Repeat.


On Nov 04 11:04 AM John Galt wrote:

Transportation workers in Philly are striking for an 11% increase in wages, 11% increase in pensions, and 0 contributions

Nov 04 01:13 PM

[John Galt:]

Alphamesister-

It reminds me of the IMF & World Bank lending 3rd world countries money for projects, but then telling them they have to use that money on American goods services.

Now we have a 1st world power, borrowing from a country that still has 800 million people in 3rd world poverty... Oh yeah, but we deserve to live like this...

TM- That's why numerous cities, counties and states are bankrupt. Politicians keep feeding the unions/workers because they are in bed together. You give me generous a salary, I give you votes. All at the expense of the sucker tax payer.

Moral bankruptcy preceded financial bankruptcy in this country.

Nov 04 01:44 PM

[Tony Petroski:]

Mr. Mark:

"However we are not allowed to have an industrial policy in the U.S. because to do so would make us "socialist" - like those darn Germans."

No, it's not quite like that. We have a government of enumerated powers and so far those powers don't include an industrial policy. It's true at times our structure is a little clunky and not as efficient as those go-go places like China. It's curious that you bring up Germany as the national socialists there were nortoriously efficient, so it seems that prudence requires at times that we sacrifice some efficiency to gain a measure of safety against the day when the industrial plan requires the liquidation of the wreckers.

Nov 04 05:07 PM

[mna:]

One thing the government's very good at is establishing standards. Imagine the FCC with no communication standards. We'd be buying multiple TV receivers for each band. I dunno about French workers being better though (at making wine maybe, but nuclear? hmmm..).

US *had* a huge lead in nuclear. But we blew it because the environmentalists were scared of radiation (ironically, the same people aren't afraid of flights, which expose you to far more radiation). We're now gonna pump trillions globally to solve carbon emissions, a problem that may not even exist. What fairytale problems are we gonna come up with next so that we can fall farther and farther behind as we spend extraordinary amounts of resources to pursue populist pseudoscience?

I dunno, but I'm sure the environmentalists will think of something.

On Nov 04 10:50 AM TraderMark wrote:

> wait, I thought the government could do nothing right?
>
> Or are the French government workers just better than US? Can't
> have it both way...
>
> p.s. you are in danger of bein a socialist with the thought that
> France succeeds in anything. Be careful, the crowd loves to snipe!
> ;)
>
> I do agree with much of your commentary. Another problem in US will
> be NIMBY - we cant even put wind turbines in the ocean because it
> might obstruct the view of the Kennedy family; we haven't build a
> new refiner in 30+ years, so a nuclear plant? Not in MY BACKYARD
> - boo yah.

Nov 04 05:20 PM

[mna:]

Couldn't have said it better myself.


On Nov 04 01:44 PM John Galt wrote:

> Alphamesister-
>
> It reminds me of the IMF &amp; World Bank lending 3rd world countries
> money for projects, but then telling them they have to use that money
> on American goods services.
>
> Now we have a 1st world power, borrowing from a country that still
> has 800 million people in 3rd world poverty... Oh yeah, but we deserve
> to live like this...
>
> TM- That's why numerous cities, counties and states are bankrupt.
> Politicians keep feeding the unions/workers because they are in bed
> together. You give me generous a salary, I give you votes. All
> at the expense of the sucker tax payer.
>
> Moral bankruptcy preceded financial bankruptcy in this country.

Nov 04 05:22 PM

[wind4me:]

6K Filed By APWR for the 1.5 Billion Wind Farm today
, why fight the tape and just ride along on the Obama China Green Energy plan coming Nov 15th, U have NOT discussed or mentioned that CHINA is going to ""OPEN"" its borders and DROP the 70% protectionism with the Obama plan!


On Nov 04 10:17 AM John Galt wrote:

> <Here is how to do this better. We can have a stimulus that costs
> almost nothing to the taxpayer, in fact paid a lot by Iran, Russia,
> oil dictators!!>
>
> <Next is a fossil fuel tax to pay their full cost>
>
> Ahhh yes, have your cake and eat it too. Your plan is a patriotic
> silver bullet that fixes everything and costs nothing. It will cost
> tax payers almost nothing if we just add a tax. Up is down and down
> is up!
>
> AND, we'll be sticking it to those evil immoral people who live in
> Iran and Russia. They are mean greedy people who make money on oil
> and charge us money.

Nov 05 10:31 AM

[connorport:]

Well i've been all in for a while. Any new breakthrough contracts that we are waiting to hear from?


On Nov 05 10:31 AM wind4me wrote:

>
> 6K Filed By APWR for the 1.5 Billion Wind Farm today
> , why fight the tape and just ride along on the Obama China Green
> Energy plan coming Nov 15th, U have NOT discussed or mentioned that
> CHINA is going to ""OPEN"" its borders and DROP the 70% protectionism
> with the Obama plan!

Nov 05 10:46 AM

[silver-bug:]

Well, that's what happens when a government tries to solve a problem by throwing money at it... it always ends up with un-intended results. Those who are smarter than the government will take the money and use it where it will profit them the most, and it's not necessarily going to be the solution that the people want.

Nov 13 05:28 PM