Are We Exacerbating China's Pollution? 18 comments
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America used to mistreat her land and water like this.
This sort of thing, by the way, is how you manage to produce things with a wage of $1 or $2/day and undercut first-world producers.
When we have "free trade" with China, this is what we are supporting. This is what we're serving up on their people. This is what our government and corporations all say is ok - so long as it is hidden from us, and happens "over there."
Make all the excuses you want America, this is what you're supporting every time you buy anything made in China or containing Chinese componets.
Go walk around your house and pick up 10 random items. Look for the "made in" tag on the back or bottom. What's it say? Now consider this - it is virtually impossible today to buy a piece of consumer electronics, a toy, an automobile or even a toaster without some part of it coming from China.
YOU are why this is happening.
These are not old photos, or someone's Photoshop experiment.
They're real, they're current, and they are what our hedonism, demand for $20 DVD players and "cheaper and faster" from everyone has resulted in, all so our "corporations" can report "record profits."
Those "great earnings" the last two quarters were in fact generated by firing Americans and shifting yet more production over to China, where they poison their air, water and ground with wild abandon, all so we can have a "strong" stock market and our banksters can loot us some more.
This is just one example.... head to the original article to read and see the rest.
You lost your job so she can bathe in industrial waste, and you are not only consenting to all of it, you're actively supporting it.
Any questions?
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Commenting on your open letter to the Chinese Premier and to President Obama, as posted on your ticker forum, which obviously is too strong for Seeking Alpha to post here. All I want to say is WOW! Mr. Karl Denniner has really totally lost his mind this time.
I do not even know where to start. But let me tell you that any one that has to publicly display the middle finger, or the middle leg, is by definition a loser.
The US dollar is destined for a certain collapse now. China is doing its best to mitigate the disaster as fast as possible, as quietly as possible. Read here to understand why the BDI surged:
seekingalpha.com/artic...
Let me assure you that China never considered the USA as its enemy. If the USA is considered China's worst enemy, isn't now a good time to just dump the US treasury bonds and cause total chaos and complete collapse of this country, if China so desire. A 2 trillion dollars price tag is a very very cheap price to pay, to defeat a super power without firing a single bullet. We spend more than $2 trillion dollars ourself and still can not get a small country called Iraq completely settled.
It's going to be extremely destructive for the US government to renegate on its debt obligation, extremely destructive. Any one in his sane mind would rather lose a global war, than to lose the full faith and credit of the US government. German lost two world wars but it is still one of the strongest economy in the world today. In human history, even nations at war dared not renegate debt obligations to each other. There is good reason for that.
Just think about World War II. How many debt did the US government carry during the war? It wasn't even a guarantee that we could win the war. Why should people lend the money to the US government then, if it were not for the good faith and credit of the federal government? If you destroy that trust, who do you borrow money from, for the next global war, if ti comes to that?
On Nov 18 10:13 PM Mark Anthony wrote:
> Mr. Denninger:
>
> Commenting on your open letter to the Chinese Premier and to President
> Obama, as posted on your ticker forum, which obviously is too strong
> for Seeking Alpha to post here. All I want to say is WOW! Mr. Karl
> Denniner has really totally lost his mind this time.
>
> I do not even know where to start. But let me tell you that any one
> that has to publicly display the middle finger, or the middle leg,
> is by definition a loser.
>
> The US dollar is destined for a certain collapse now. China is doing
> its best to mitigate the disaster as fast as possible, as quietly
> as possible. Read here to understand why the BDI surged:
>
> seekingalpha.com/artic...
>
>
> Let me assure you that China never considered the USA as its enemy.
> If the USA is considered China's worst enemy, isn't now a good time
> to just dump the US treasury bonds and cause total chaos and complete
> collapse of this country, if China so desire. A 2 trillion dollars
> price tag is a very very cheap price to pay, to defeat a super power
> without firing a single bullet. We spend more than $2 trillion dollars
> ourself and still can not get a small country called Iraq completely
> settled.
>
> It's going to be extremely destructive for the US government to renegate
> on its debt obligation, extremely destructive. Any one in his sane
> mind would rather lose a global war, than to lose the full faith
> and credit of the US government. German lost two world wars but it
> is still one of the strongest economy in the world today. In human
> history, even nations at war dared not renegate debt obligations
> to each other. There is good reason for that.
>
> Just think about World War II. How many debt did the US government
> carry during the war? It wasn't even a guarantee that we could win
> the war. Why should people lend the money to the US government then,
> if it were not for the good faith and credit of the federal government?
> If you destroy that trust, who do you borrow money from, for the
> next global war, if ti comes to that?
What YOU don't seem to understand is that even if we all stopped buying Chinese crap tomorrow nothing would change. That Girl isn't dealing with polluted water because of America. She is dealing with polluted water because of China.
The Chinese Government has one goal.....Global Domination. Since they don't have the capacity to do it at the end of a gun they are making a run at it through economics. This is a shrewd, calculated game they are playing, and the powers-that-be in China don't give a rat's ass if the citizens live in squalor. They don't give a rat's ass about human rights abuses in their own country, let alone the African continent, or Myanmar, or any other God-forsaken third world shit hole.
The Chinese HAVE plenty of money to solve their pollution problems, they are spending BILLIONS on infrastructure programs in Africa to help prop up brutal dictators by allowing those dictators to claim to be something good for their slave-citizens. In reality this is all a sham on the surface so the dictators and the Chinese can loot the resources of the country in question.
It's sad that you have to jump on the same train as the Obama administration and blame America First.....for everything......
Perhaps when you take the blinders off you will see that this isn't about one girl in a pond full of crap, or a million girls in the same situation.....It's about one Government's desire to control the world and it's willingness to sacrifice the well-being of it's own citizens to achieve that goal.....
......and in looking at the pond.....I would imagine if the Chinese were willing to provide garbage pick-up in their cities and towns and proper land fills you wouldn't have bags for rice chips and other waste paper floating in the pond.....Somehow I don't think an American flew over there to dump his paper waste in this girl's water supply......
The successful public (and private) corporations of the future are the ones that continue to put all employees on 5-10% differentiated salary curves (just as most positions in every corporation already use) INCLUDING THE TOP LAYERS OF MANAGEMENT (AFTER ALL, MOST OF THE TOP GUYS ARE JUST SOMEONE RECENTLY PROMOTED FROM A LOWER LEVEL ---DUH!!!!!!!!!), and!!!!!! EVERYONE WILL EQUALLY PARTICIPATE IN PROFIT SHARING.
Afterall, it is the majority of workers, not top management, that make or break most companies (most are not Steve Jobs and Apple; nor some Einstein; nor some gold miner that struck it rich due to his own personal effort - they are simply pumpkin jumpers!!). If you don't believe me, think for a moment how the workers can do less than their best or even sabotage the works if the top of the corporations continue to steal from the workers and the stockholders. Scary!!!!!! Yes, the workers have been the ones making most companys, and they can surely screw up the performance works if they so wish - fortunately, they are not as wicked as the thieves at the top.
Most corporations are nothing more than a machine, or a wagon train, and the indian scout is the most valuable contributor, short of the horses pulling the wagon train - not the individual train drivers and certainly not the wagon master.
We certainly have the wagon ahead of the horse, and TRULY don't recognize it.
No man should "earn" (sic) STEAL a lifetime income in one year.
PS - and here's the numerical guidlines:
1) the guy at the top earns no more than 20x the lowest (yes, lowest; not the average!) paid employee. This equalizes all compensation.
2) the profits are shared equally over all employees and stockholders. This equalizes all performance earnings.
If the guys at the top don't like it, they can go elsewhere because there is certainly someone no more than several layers below him (and most in-between) that is equally capable of running the company - and that is most likely where he came from (unless he came from outside because HE WAS PASSED OVER in his last place of employee AND DISGRUNTLED because he was NOT THE BEST -- NOR BEST LIKED DUH!!!!!). So some other corporation got saddled with him. Green grass syndrome at work at it's worst.
Oh yes; and the Directors are paid on an hourly basis (10x lowest paid employee) plus employee equivalent travel expenses.
PPS - of course, I take it back about workers making most companies - that may be true except for unions. They have ruined the US industry and Education and Govt etc., etc., by demanding much, much, much, more than they are worth - we also have too much evidence of that, too.
And, of course, we know can look at the Govt and the way it taxes corporations (and individuals) to get what they want and what they THINK is their work --- sad, so sad.
When we get what we deserve, it ain't going to be pretty at all.
The article Karl Denniger cites list photographs taken by Lu Guang, a professional photographic journalist. He won a $30,000 prize reward for his project for crying out loud! How do you win a photographic competition? An average photo reflecting the average situation simply would not cut. He must travel to the worst polluted places and take the most shocking photos. Thus by definition these photos reflect the worst of the worst, not the typical.
If you travel around America, I am sure you can find some places, some spots, polluted just as bad, if not worse. You will not see such places in your daily life, because they are not typical. That's why only a professional journalist willing to spend time would be able to dig them out. Average persons would not see them.
Is China's pollution problem serious? Definitely. There is an urgency that China needs to address these problems. Is all places in China like depicted in the photographes? Definitely not. Otherwise the land of China would have been totally desolate land, with no living human beings that could possibly survive. If those photos are reasons that Karl Denninger hate the Chinese so much he wants to have them as dinner, that's stereotyping and racism.
Worth noting is that the Chinese government are serious in cracking down the pollution problems. Death penalties are handed down in many cases of the worst pollution offenders, and the worst cases of financial crimes. Have you heard any one ever be sentenced to death in America, for causing pollutions, or for causing billions or even trillions of dollars of losses?
It's just some times human greed of profit seeking exceed even the fear of death sentences. Same in China as in America.
This is exactly happening to the Chinese manufacturers. China is exporting "cheap goods" to the world, gaining a huge foreign currency reserves, but also importing all the ills of envirnormental degradations. It is not our fault that we demand products with the lowest cost. It is their mistakes of pricing them too low by ignoring the true costs to their country.
It is the same short-sighted policy as we have been practising for a long, long time.
The Chinese will suffer because of the higher rate of cancers and other diseases; because of droughts; and because of mis-allocation of resources. They will pay sooner or later, and probably be sooner.
I don't think we should look at this issue as a deliberate domination tactic. They do what they have to do to advance their country's living standard. In doing so, they are making the same mistakes as we have done. To return America to the top, we have to recongize our weakness (don't just drape the flag around our eyes and be blind of our mistakes), innovate and compete.
If China is so bad health wise, how is it that we have had 4,000 swine flu deaths and they have had only 36 with a huge population? Maybe we are the ones sitting in a pool of poor health care crap dying, not them. :)
The protectionist cry used to be against "made in Japan", not "made in China", and the Japanese are sitting around with more and fancier toys then we have now, not population.
On Nov 19 02:23 PM Lorenzo Chandler wrote:
> We have been trained to price a product or a service based on its
> direct imput costs such as labor, capital and energy etc, we have
> been mis-pricing or under pricing all along. We have not factored
> in the less obvious social cost and environmental cost. For example,
> mining companies are reporting their earnings without factoring in
> the cost to the envirnment (such as toxic tailing ponds), which in
> most cases will be paid by the tax payers in ways of direct clean
> up costs or health bills.
>
> This is exactly happening to the Chinese manufacturers. China is
> exporting "cheap goods" to the world, gaining a huge foreign currency
> reserves, but also importing all the ills of envirnormental degradations.
> It is not our fault that we demand products with the lowest cost.
> It is their mistakes of pricing them too low by ignoring the true
> costs to their country.
>
> It is the same short-sighted policy as we have been practising for
> a long, long time.
>
> The Chinese will suffer because of the higher rate of cancers and
> other diseases; because of droughts; and because of mis-allocation
> of resources. They will pay sooner or later, and probably be sooner.
>
>
> I don't think we should look at this issue as a deliberate domination
> tactic. They do what they have to do to advance their country's living
> standard. In doing so, they are making the same mistakes as we have
> done. To return America to the top, we have to recongize our weakness
> (don't just drape the flag around our eyes and be blind of our mistakes),
> innovate and compete.
The Chinese government (military) is building their army for conquest.
We are fools to be giving them all of our research in agriculture and other sciences; they don't care about the individual or rights or freedom - only the state. Sound familiar? Hmmmm...let's see..National Socialist (Nazi) Party of Germany? Stalin and the USSR?
Sooner or later we will have to deal with military aggression from China. Look back to the alliance between Germany, Italy, Japan, and initially the USSR of WWII.
Can't happen again? Every generation thinks that. History repeats itself, or at least rhymes.
There is no reason that an alliance between Russia (Putin), China, North Korea, and socialist nations of South America won't develop; especially if the global economy continues in crisis mode.
Who would defend the oil fields in the Middle East, Taiwan, Japan, Australia? Us? Britain? France? Oooops!
We buy plastic crap at WalMart to fund the building of their military machine and the oppression of Chinese citizens. We keep pretending we're "friends" when the truth is they want to take our place as a world power.