AMERCO - Shareholder/Analyst Call

Aug.29.13 | About: Amerco (UHAL)

Amerco (NASDAQ:UHAL)

August 29, 2013 2:00 pm ET

Executives

Mark V. Shoen - Vice President of U-Haul Business Consultants

Samuel J. Shoen - Former President of Repwest Insurance Company

Dennis O'Connor

Doug Bell

Mark A. Haydukovich - President of Oxford Life Insurance Company

Edward J. Shoen - Chairman of the Board, Principal Executive Officer, President, Member of Executive Finance Committee, Chairman of U-Haul and Chief Executive Officer of U-Haul

Jason A. Berg - Principal Financial Officer and Chief Accounting Officer

Sebastien Reyes

John C. Taylor

John C. Taylor - President of U-Haul and Director of U-Haul

Douglas M. Bell - President of Repwest Insurance Company

Mark V. Shoen

Hello, and welcome to the 2013 AMERCO Investor and Analyst Virtual Meeting. I'm Joe Shoen, speaking to you from Phoenix, Arizona. This is our seventh virtual meeting. I've used this format in the past to take you through and showcase some U-Haul operations. We've visited a U-Haul center with storage. We've been through a metal stamping and welding operation, through U-Haul's decal manufacturing plant, through our warehouse and through a variety of U-Haul stores. This year, I'm going to showcase one of our sustainability initiatives that I call adaptive building reuse. Adaptive reuse is the process of reusing an existing site or building for a purpose other than that for which it was built or designed. Adaptive reuse has been part of our business plan since 1973.

The first U-Haul center in Stockton, California, was in fact a former Gulf service station. Gulf closed the store during 1972-'73 Arab oil embargo. We purchased it in December of 1974 and opened it as a U-Haul moving center in February of 1975. Since then, U-Haul has purchased and reused more than 1,000 sites. From a peanut processing plant to an automobile dealership, from a clothing manufacturing facility to a movie theater, from a cigar factory to a dairy plant. Rehabilitating existing buildings rather than building new ones has -- had multiple positive effects. First of all, it's allowed us to do in-field development in neighborhoods that might otherwise be unavailable to us. This, of course, has resulted in the savings of countless amounts of natural resources because we didn't tear down and halted the dump, we reused what was in place. By reducing the new construction involved in acquiring a center, U-Haul has achieved economies that's allowed us to remain very cost competitive, which of course is something that customer wants and expects us to do. The first site we will look at today is in South Central Los Angeles. In 1977, we purchased a former grocery store on Vermont Avenue in South Los Angeles. At that time, it was a low income, high-risk area. Not many national brands wanted to set up in this area in 1977, but U-Haul did. We realized that the citizens of this neighborhood needed access to our products and services. Now, nearly 40 years later, we continue to serve the market and are a well-known fixture in the community. In addition to truck and trailer rentals, boxes and moving supplies, the center features 271 indoor storage units with more than 18,000 square feet of self-storage. Today, the area has evolved into an ethnically diverse market, and Vermont Avenue has become an important and busy artery. Recently, we completed an exterior renovation that showcases our operation and makes it stand out on the street. Our strategy for over 60 years has been to provide U-Haul products and services in every neighborhood across North America. Our customers want this and appreciate us working towards that goal.

A very recent adaptive reuse project is the Pittsburgh Gage & Supply Company building in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. We purchased this building in June of 2012. Built in 1907, this 6-story, 212,000 square-foot building served as the headquarters of the Pittsburgh Gage & Supply Company and at one time in its history, was used to store Allegheny County's voting machines. The third and fifth floors of the facility features 600 self-storage units, providing more than 53,000 square feet of self-storage. The third floor units are heated. The fifth floor is air-conditioned and heated. We received our certificate of occupancy on June 14, 2013, and opened the third floor. On June 15, we rented our first storage room. We're making great progress at this location. We are also operating a U-Box storage warehouse at this facility. We've kept a lot of design features true to the building. We have the cranes we've kept in, in the showroom from the old gauge & steel where they use the cranes to -- with the trains that would come here. We've kept the steel beams. Our countertop was used from the wood from the ceiling and from the roof that we tore out of an old building. We brought that back with beams on the parking lot. We kept the beams for our lot lighting. The building sits on a little over 2 acres and is approximately 1.5 miles northeast of Pittsburgh central business district. There are several colleges and universities in the area, including the University of Pittsburgh and Duquesne University.

The immediate neighborhood is known as the Strip District, an urban market comprised of low-style apartments, mixed-use buildings, retail centers and industrial sites. We believe the area is underserved for moving and self-storage, which makes this an ideal location. This March, the facility was the highest grossing U-Haul location for one-way rentals in the entire Pittsburgh area. The customers telling us we've made the right decision when we picked this site. There is pride here. The ownership, the employees here, myself, personally the management, the local management, the MCP all the way at EVP, ADVP. We're all Pittsburgh residents, so we all take particular pride in making sure that this business thrives and none of us will let it fail.

A second recent adaptive reuse is in Detroit Michigan. Of course, the story of Detroit's decline has been well chronicled. The city's recent bankruptcy filing has prompted many to speculate the city is beyond redemption, beyond repair. U-Haul doesn't agree. We have heard this story before. U-Haul is steeping up in Detroit to be part of the solution, not part of the problem. Our business is helping people improve the quality of their life through residential mobility. If ever there was a city that needed improvement of the quality of life, Detroit fits the description. Detroit has built the cars that customers have used to tow our trailers since 1945. It's totally appropriate that U-Haul steps up in this instance. So while other businesses leave, U-Haul will continue to service Detroit. U-Haul centers and neighborhood dealerships in the Detroit metro area provide needed jobs, goods, services and more importantly, mobility to the population. To that end, we purchased the former national biscuit or Nabisco company building in Midtown at the intersection of Grand and the Large freeway, 3 blocks from the Fisher building. Built in 1920, this historic 7-story, 238,000 square-foot building, served as a Nabisco bakery for more than 30 years. Nabisco exited the building in the 1950s. When we bought it last year, the building had been vacant for 3 years.

[Presentation]

As we have done with other reuse projects, we have incorporated a number of features from the old building into our new design. Ensuring continuity for the neighborhood. For our showroom, we converted the former boiler room. We kept the clamshell scoop that transported coal for the bakery boilers from railcars and the scale that weigh the coal. Outside, we uncovered a brick road across our entrance, formerly part of Foresight Avenue. The facility features more than 930 indoor, single-level storage room, providing nearly 63,000 square feet of self-storage. Without a doubt, this is the best storage product in all of Detroit. Based on conservative formulas, reuse of the Nabisco building provides the following benefits; nearly 600 tons of carbon emissions from production of tons of steel and concrete, and the energy required for new construction has been avoided; 83 tons of steel manufacturing and has been prevented. 82,144 tons of new concrete manufacturer has been avoided. This has kept 82,000 tons of CO2 out of our air. Making the air better to breathe for myself, my children and my grandchildren. 81,558 tons of construction and demolition debris has been avoided.

[Presentation]

I'm very excited about this location. The facility is located in the Midtown Detroit area, 3 miles north of the downtown area. This is not a blighted area. Three major institutions are located in this area, Henry Ford Medical Systems, Wayne State University and the Detroit Medical Center. The Henry Ford health System has committed to invest $500 million and 300 acres south of its existing campus and a few blocks southwest of our building. These 3 employers have also partnered in Live Midtown. This is an incentivized residential living center program aimed to encourage their more than 30,000 employees to live and invest in a Midtown home. Other retail developers have recently opened or announced new facilities in the area. U-Haul also anticipates development of our cross-border rentals with Canada. This Detroit facility is literally across the river from our Windsor Ontario facility.

[Presentation]

Reuse of existing buildings that have become functionally obsolete has proven to be a good, long-term strategy for U-Haul and for our customers. It has allowed us to enter markets in a cost-effective manner and a timely manner. As I hope you've seen in our video tour today, adaptive reuse makes good business sense for U-Haul. It adds value to the communities which we serve. And it fits in well with our long-term sustainability goals.

We're now going to go to the live webcast. I hope you'll stick with us as we proceed in the room with a variety of U-Haul managers.

Unknown Executive

Welcome to AMERCO's Seventh Annual Virtual Investor and Analyst Meeting. Thank you for joining us today. Throughout this meeting, we'll take a look back at our performance in fiscal year 2013 and the first quarter of fiscal 2014. I would like to remind all participants that certain of the statements during this webcast, including without limitation statements about revenue, segments, income and general growth of our business may constitute forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Safe Harbor provisions of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 as amended in Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 as amended. Forward-looking statements are inherently subject to risks and uncertainties, some of which cannot be predicted or quantified. Certain factors could cause actual results to differ materially from those projected. For a discussion of the risks and uncertainties that may affect AMERCO's business and future operating results, please refer to our most recent Form 10-K filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission and any updates as maybe provided in our periodic Form 10-Q filings.

We are very excited to continue to communicate via this virtual platform. At this time, I would like to turn the webcast over to Joe Shoen, President and Chairman of AMERCO.

Mark V. Shoen

Hello, and welcome again to AMERCO's virtual shareholder and analyst meeting for fiscal year 2013. Again, this year, I have several key persons in the AMERCO organization who will share parts of our story with you. During the presentations, you can key in questions on your screen. These will be received by Sebastien Reyes, our Investor Relations Manager. Sebastien will verbalize the questions when all of the presenters are done.

This is an exciting time at the company. Operations are well integrated and customers are responding. This is resulting in solid profitability. As you have heard me say before, present results are the outcome of decisions made in times past, often, several years ago. However, we have several small, but growing programs that I believe will be part of our future. The first one of these is Moving Help. You can access this at movinghelp.com. It connects customers with customer-rated independent providers of moving labor. This program continues to grow in transactions while maintaining excellent customer satisfaction.

U-Haul Car Share. It provides unattended access to rental cars. We are in our third iteration of this technology and believe we're beginning to master it. We have held our footprint relatively constant over the past 12 months.

U-Box. This is a boxed-based moving and storage solution, which speaks to customer wants. It builds on our existing capabilities. We continue to see strong growth here. However, customer satisfaction is not yet where I believe he can put it.

College Boxes. Again, you could go to collegeboxes.com. College Boxes provides a moving and storage solution tailored to college and university students. Our footprint continues to grow based upon our ability to service a broad, geographic area. Revenue is small compared to U-Haul revenues but it's growing at a strong rate.

Of course, U-Haul Truck and Trailer Rental remains the big driver of AMERCO's success. Today, I'm going to ask J.T. Taylor, President of U-Haul International, and a 32-year team member, to give us an update on U-Haul Truck and Trailer rentals J.T?

Unknown Executive

Thank you, Joe. Good morning. This year and fiscal year 2013, truck trailer, towing and support rental item revenue was up 5.3% compared to last year, fiscal year 2012. A number of factors have contributed to this year-over-year increase. Of course, our customers continue to expect affordability and I believe U-Haul has continued to meet those expectations. Additionally, our centers and dealers, our U-Haul centers and neighborhood dealers have continued to deliver increased service. That's something the customer expects. We all know that moving can be very stressful and challenging, and those locations have been an exceptional job in trying to make moving easier.

Another factor has been additional locations. We saw at the beginning of this program, new locations in Detroit and Pittsburgh. All new locations make a significant difference in our ability to serve customers. Be at those locations or even opening dealers in Montana. As Joe mentioned, I have been here 32 years, and I must tell you that I think one of the contributing factors to success is been, in my 32 years, I don't know if we've ever had a strong -- as strong or a more capable team of people working at U-Haul. We have program managers that have developed programs and tools that assist the customers. We have technology experts that have advanced the way we do business with our customers and we have analysts and operational managers that go out of their way to ensure that we are providing the trend analysis and expertise in where this market needs to go.

In fiscal year 2013, U-Haul companies strategic increased its rental fleet which also had a positive impact on transactions. At the same time, it increased equipment productivity and in some markets, average dollar per rental. This past quarter has seen similar growth as we did this past year. Thank you.

Mark V. Shoen

Thank you, J.T. Next up is Sam Shoen. Sam is Vice President of Technology for U-Haul.

Samuel J. Shoen

Hi, good morning, everyone. So, I'm Sam Shoen. I'm the VP of Technology for U-Haul International, and this year marks my 20th year with the company. Most of those years have been spent in an IT related capacity. In many ways, IT is what drives U-Haul. Almost all of our projects are done in-house. In the past, maybe you've heard Joe mentioned that we have over 100 web professionals on the team. Let me bring you up to speed with the brief technology update this morning. Let's start with something called, actionable web analytics. What does that mean? Web analytics are sophisticated set of measuring tools that allow us to look into our online presence. So of course, it's -- it provides a big picture view of the customer activity that maybe you've recognized in the past. Things like hits, things like visits, page views. But more importantly, it gives us a thorough understanding of detailed customer behavior and trends. And really, it allows us to find and eliminate things like subtle obstacles that are blocking customers from making transactions. It also allows us a detailed replay of individual customer sessions. Almost like a DVR, we can rewind, fast forward, and playback individual customers making a transaction. And so, what our statistics are showing, specifically in the last 2 years, is a huge shift in customer presence -- excuse me, customer preference. They're choosing to access our content via their mobile devices. Specifically, up 300% in the last 24 months. So before, when I introduced this subject, I said actionable. So what's the action part? Well, one of the things we're doing is redoing all of our mobile applications. To do that, we're using a methodology called responsive design. And what does that really mean? Well, it means that we program it once and it works universally on almost all modern mobile devices. And this is possible with the latest generation of HTML called HTML5. It essentially lets our developers create richer and more interactive web applications. We also have a focus on something called a web services-based architecture, which allows us to decentralize and develop projects more rapidly and independently. Another thing that's exciting is our central customer platform. This lets us better recognize repeat customers on the web and at the point of sale. So one of the things it does this dramatically reduces the data entry by our personnel and customer wait time at the paint of sale, and this went live this week.

Another big initiative is rolling out mobile devices at our field locations. So this is our third generation, we're undergoing a major rollout of these handhelds right now. And these handheld assists with truck, trailer and U-Box receive and dispatch. They also allow us to do propane pay-at-the-pump, assist with showroom sales and allow us to do storage facility inventory management on the handheld. Inside the store, we've also done a technology refresh. We have new PCs running our web based point-of-sale. We have new payment terminals that are easier to update, easier to manage and program for. And they've enhanced our credit card security even further. They've also allowed us to be ready for next generation wireless payment standards called NFC.

So we really are a team of technology. We're trying to use technology to serve our customers better, and some exciting progress been made this year and I appreciate the opportunity to share with you today.

Mark V. Shoen

Thank you, Sam. Next up is Dennis O'Connor. Dennis is a 21-year team member. And Dennis has been hitting our self-storage operations for about 10 years. Dennis?

Dennis O'Connor

Thank you, Joe. As I -- Joe mentioned, I've been running self-storage for the last 15 years. U-Haul owns storage portfolio consists of 17.1 million square feet of self-storage at 724 locations, having 197,100 self-storage room's. For the trailing 12 months ending July 2013, U-Haul owned search revenue is up $23.2 million, or 17.2%.

Storage revenue increases. They were a result of a 2.6% increase in storage occupancy. The addition of over 220 -- sorry, 2.25 million square feet of self-storage and modest price increases across the system. The occupancy improvements are attributed to an organizational focus on adding value and service to our customers, and then responding to the customers via their reviews of our services. Our pricing policy is consistent with previous years. We employ a value-added pricing strategy. A value-added pricing strategy is where prices are primarily but not exclusively based on the value we're providing to the customer. Web self-storage is the point-of-sale system used by all U-Haul locations to transact with our customers. It can be customized to the needs of any self-storage operator in the industry. In addition to the adaptive reuse initiative that Joe spoke of earlier, we are continuing to expand on our sustainable self-storage program. This is where we take the boxes from retired trucks and trailers, completely refurbish them and give them new life as self-storage rooms to our customers.

As of July 2013, nearly 5,000 of these self-storage rooms are available for customer rental. In December of 2008, we launched our first customer reuse area at a store here in Scottsdale, Arizona. The reuse program was designed to provide a redistribution network for gently used household items, formerly, destined for landfills. The program has bees, so well received that we have 600 of these reuse areas at U-Haul retail locations across North America and have received a letter of gratitude from the EPA. Thank you very much for your time.

Mark V. Shoen

Thank you, Dennis. You can see -- I can't tell the difference between 10 and 15 years. So I appreciate you correcting. Your time goes fast. Our next presenter is Stewart Shoen. Stewart is another Executive Vice President of U-Haul. Stewart?

Unknown Executive

Thanks, Joe. Good afternoon. The first time I managed large groups of people at U-Haul was when I oversaw what's called the U-Haul Technical Center between 2007 and 2011. I think I have a fairly good grasp of our equipment as a result of that work. Since then, I've been in the position of Executive Vice President. Overseeing part of the home office operations here in Phoenix. A subsection of my team is charged with communicating about and performing the analysis of some of the more exciting teams that are happening in U-Haul today. That includes, among other things, social media. Social media is a group that has, as you can probably imagine, experience some serious growth over the last year. Results in these social media industry are hard to measure, but we're trying. In a little over 18 months, we've seen nothing but increases. Double-digit percentage increases in the normal stuff like followers, likes and shares. More importantly, we have a strategy that we believe is working. We don't focus on banner ad keyword searches, we focus on interactions. And we are interacting a lot more than we used to.

These interactions are focused on finding out what our customer wants and then figuring out how we can give it to them. Everyday. Were talking about hundreds of people with tens of thousands watching.

In the last've 18 months, we staffed up and take up. And as a result, the company has smartened up. More than just Facebook and Twitter, the social media team is researching and posting daily about things our customers want to talk about on our blog, MovingInsider.com.

There you'll find tips and discussions about everything from how to back up a trailer to how do organizer should closet. And the heck of a lot more. It goes without saying that U-Haul can help you with all of those things, and moving insider.com can efficiently bring you to a transaction if that's what you wants. If not, we're happy to just talk about it with you until you're ready. We've seen growth in communication with customers and this, and all of the traditional media channels. And of course, our 100% unedited customer review system continues to grow by the thousands daily. It's all a part of our strategy, to listen to what our customer wants and then figure out how to give it to them. I invite all of you to check out our work at MovingInsider.com and the rest of our social media profiles in all the places you'd expect. A collaborative effort of a few of my teams, including social media, as well as sustainability, media relations, Investor Relations and Corporate Communications, has been our blog about the progress at the locations as Joe mentioned earlier the new Center area of Detroit. Moving Detroit.com has been a hit by thousands of inquiring minds want to know what the heck has going on at the job site. Over the last year, we've been giving weekly updates about the project progress, including video testimonial from our neighbors, contract and the employees who now operate the facility. They've woven a wonderful narrative that illustrates better than we could say ourselves what U-Haul means to America and to a small section of a city that's struggling. And people are taking notice. We've received more media request for information about this Detroit facility than all our other facilities combined. We received the help and cooperation from our neighbors in both the public and private sector. These things are not often forthcoming and without them, we couldn't have completed the project in our timeframe. Joe already shared some of our analytical work with you when he talked about the environmental impacts that our adaptive reuse projects have yielded. Of course, from what I surmise about everyone listening today, you do not need me or staff of analysts to form an opinion about the magnitude of economic benefit that results from not having to demo in Holloway 81,000 tones of construction debris. Our resident PhD and erector of corporate sustainability, Dr. Alan Yang, has been working with professors and students at Detroit's Wayne State University in performing a comprehensive study of the social, economic and environmental effects of our location on the neighborhood, as well as its impact on citywide residential mobility. Although the real data collection is just starting, the universities' preliminary research strongly suggests the following: That adaptive reuse has the greatest impact in central cities; that adaptive reuse has higher ROI than new construction; the higher levels of interregional mobility are associated with economic strengths; and that adaptive reuse projects can spur urban revitalization. And while it's easy to throw around weighty generalities, the atmosphere down here is anything but general. Our teams are fully engaged in adaptive reuse projects all around the country. It's happening not only in Detroit, but Pittsburgh, Brooklyn, Tampa, Milwaukee, Oakland and Columbus, where we've partnered with the Ohio State University on a project much like one at Wayne State. Some see the buildings and neighborhoods like the one in Detroit as a punchline. U-Haul sees the new Center in Midtown Detroit communities as vibrant areas that are full of residents, commerce, innovation and entrepreneurship. From outside the city, we may look like first movers but to Detroiters, many have asked me what took us so long. Sustainable development is a goal all over North America. And at U-Haul company, we're playing our part. There's a great demand for residential mobility across the continent. And there's not a more practiced, qualified and engaged team than the one that I am lucky enough to represent to you today. Thanks for your time and attention this afternoon.

Mark V. Shoen

Thank you, Stewart. As some of you might be surmising, Sam, Sean and Stewart Shoen are my sons, so I'm prejudiced in favor of their activities. And I'm very glad to have them working here at U-Haul. And I think U-Haul is very lucky to have them working here. Next up, I have Doug Bell. This is Doug's first time to present to this group, but Doug is a 12-year system veteran. He, within the last year, was promoted to this position of President of our Republic West or Repwest Casualty Insurance Company. Doug?

Doug Bell

Thank you, Joe. Good morning. In addition to being the President of Repwest Insurance Company, I'm also the President of ARCOA risk retention group. Together, Repwest and ARCOA form the Property and Casualty Insurance segment of AMERCO. We have 238 team members who manage both operations. Our mission is simple: To provide insurance products and insurance solutions to AMERCO, U-Haul, U-Haul customers, dealers and affiliates. For fiscal year 2013, Property and Casualty segment reported $14 million of pre-tax earnings. The great results continued into fiscal year 2014, where in the first quarter, we reported $4.4 million of pre-tax earnings. While these are great results, we haven't forgotten that 2 years ago, Repwest had adverse development on a terminated loan of business, excess workers compensation. This required significant reserve strengthening on our part. We continue to review every claim biannually in monthly large loss meetings, and we make reserve adjustments at that time. We continue to use reserve till the claimant's expected life. In addition to these case reserves, we have incurred but not reported reserves. The insurance industry calls this IBNR. These reserves are for late reported claims, but they're also for development on known claims and certain other things, and in this case, medical inflation. Based on the information today, we believe that our reserves are adequate. The majority of insurance products we produce are know as the safes: Safemove, Safetow, Safestor, Safestor Mobile and Safemove Plus. Basically, we'll insure a customer's goods, whether they put them in a truck, trailer, storage unit or portable storage unit, known as U-Box, or if you're a truck rental customer, ARCOA will sell you additional liability insurance.

Repwest concentrates on the self-storage industry. SafeStor is our self-storage tenant insurance program, and it is the most recognized brand in the self-storage industry today. 1/3 of our SafeStor premiums come from U-Haul's self-storage affiliates. This is up just 6 years -- 6 years ago, this was less than 5%. This is proof positive that U-Haul self-storage network and SafeStor branding are working. Our largest insurance solution we bring to AMERCO and U-Haul are claims adjusting services. We have over 200 claim professionals in 4 regional offices throughout North America. In addition to handling claims, we provide claim services like subrogation and SIU, our Special Investigations Unit, just to name 2. When other vehicle is at fault, we go after them for damage to U-Haul equipment and any moneys paid under our safe policies. In fiscal year 2013, our subrogation department increased recoveries by 58% when compared to fiscal year 2011. Auto fraud occurs throughout the country, and it affects every insurance company. Our SIU department is designed to fight that fraud. In fiscal year 2013, they increased confessions or withdrawals by 90% over fiscal year 2012. Anyone who has thoughts of staging an accident with U-Haul equipment, we were -- we are going to catch you. And, we work with law enforcement. We had over 57 individuals arrested last year based in part from the work done by our SIU department. Pound for pound, I believe, our SIU department is as good as any in the insurance industry. These claim services add value. On behalf of all the team members at Repwest, I'd like to thank this -- take this opportunity to thank you for allowing me to tell you a little bit about who we are and what we do. Thank you.

Mark V. Shoen

Thanks, very much, Doug. Our next presenter is Mark Haydukovich. Mark runs Oxford Life Insurance, our other insurance company. Mark has 35 years with the AMERCO organization.

Mark A. Haydukovich

Thank you, Joe, and good afternoon. I want to just spend a few minutes giving you a big overview of Oxford Life and the markets it serves. We offer protection and accumulation products to a market of retirees and pre-retirees commonly known as the senior market. A statistical fact is that there are 10,000 people in the United States turning 65 every day for the next 12 years. That's a population of 60 million targets that we aim our products at and solve their needs. We have 3 products that we offer in this market. A whole life insurance policy, supplemental health insurance policy and retirement savings products. Our products are sold by independent agents. We currently have about 7,000 of these appointed across the United States. Our final expense policy is a small phase amount policy, approximately $12,000 in average size, and is designed to cover burial expenses upon the insurer's death.

Our Medicare supplement policy is, as the name suggests, a policy that covers a portion of the health cost not covered by the traditional Medicare program. Notably, these are deductibles and co-insurance requirements. In the retirement savings market, there are 2 types of products that we sell, both tax-deferred, fixed rate annuities. An indexed annuity and a multi-year guaranteed annuity. On our indexed annuity, the interest is credited based on participation and growth of the S&P 500 Index, subject to some maximum. Currently, that maximum is around 3% for a policyholder's year of ownership. Our multi-year guarantee annuity is a 5-year guaranteed annuity that promises a fixed rate for the 5 period -- each of the years in the 5 periods. These products are alternatives to otherwise taxable CDs or taxable long-term savings. Between the time we collect the premiums for these products and honor our policy of obligations, we invest the cash flows. Our investment portfolio right now is a little over $1 billion in size. These are fixed income assets. Bonds represent 88% of those assets and mortgage loans make up approximately another 10% or 11%. It's a high quality, fixed income portfolio. In the bond portfolio, 99.5% of these bonds are highly rated investment grade. There's not more than -- no securities are more than 1% of invested asset base. So it's well diversified and high quality. Those investments that I indicate fund future policy obligations. So the duration of those bonds and mortgages is closely a match to the expected duration of the policy obligations. That's generally 7 to 12 years depending on a product data.

Oxford has been a consistently profitable company over the years with a diversified revenue and earnings stream. Our capital growth is solely from these profits and we've reinvested them in new business and acquisitions. Capital strength is an important attribute to potential agents and insurers on both a regulatory and rating agency capital model basis, Oxford's risk-to-capital ratio is in the top tier of life insurance companies in the industry.

Oxford has an experienced management team with a lot of tenure. Accordingly, our operations at the Life company do not consume much management time or focus from the Moving and Storage team. Oxford has been owned by AMERCO for its entire 45-year existence. Those profits that have been returned -- represent a competitive return to AMERCO. So that is a brief overview of Oxford Life's markets. Thank you for your time and your participation in this forum.

Edward J. Shoen

Thank you, Mark. Our last presenter before the question-and-answer period is Jason Berg, our Chief Accounting Officer. Jason has been with AMERCO for 17 years, and he actually started it in -- as part of Mark Haydukovich's Oxford Life Insurance organization. Jason?

Jason A. Berg

Thank you, Joe. Based upon feedback from my presentation last year, where I had some slides that we flashed up on the screen, we put a link on amerco.com as you were registering for this webcast where you can download those slides in PDF format as I go through them. We will be putting them up on the screen here though during the presentation.

I wanted to just start off my discussion today first with self-moving equipment rental revenues because this is really what sets the tone for profitability at the company.

And Slide #1 shows the annual revenues over the last 11 years for the U-Move product line. We finished fiscal year '13 with $1,767,000,000 of revenue. To put that in kind of historical context, our average growth rate over the last 10 years has just been over 3% while over the last 3 years, that number's bumped up to just over 7.5%. If you were to go all the way out to the early 1980s and then take that through fiscal '13, our average growth rate for U-Move revenues come somewhere around 5%. So what we're seeing, in the last 10 years, is we're making up some ground that we lost. In fiscal 2007, '08 and '09, we have revenue declines for the first time on the U-Move segment. That turnaround in fiscal 2010 and then, we really picked up steam in '11, '12, and '13 with nice revenue increases. The first quarter of this year, we reported, again, additional revenue increases for U-Move and from what we're seeing so far, looking at the second quarter of this year, we're seeing the positive revenue trend continue on as well.

The next line that I wanted to talk about was self-storage. We've also been expanding here very significantly over the last few years through acquisitions, construction at existing locations, conversions like Joe touched on in his prepared remarks and then, also through the eMove Storage Affiliate Program. During last year's presentation, Sam Celaya spent a great deal of time on the eMove Storage Affiliate Program. Some of them did not touch on that as much.

But going to Slide 2, you will see some statistics on our storage program, and Dennis touched on this as well. First of all, looking at the stacked graph, the blue portion of the stacked graph is in locations, square footage managed by U-Haul. The orange portion, right above that, is U-Haul owned locations and then, there's the black line that cuts through that and that's a revenue for the owned locations. So what does this show us? What it shows us is our average growth in capacity over the last 8 years has been a little over 7.5% in the storage program. Just like U-Move, over the last 3 years, we've accelerated this. We're now up to a 12% average growth rate for new square foot into the system. From a revenue perspective, we've been able to keep fairly close with those numbers. Over the 8 year period, we've grown revenues on average, 6%. Over the last 3 years now, that growth rate's bumped up to just almost 11.5%. So as of our last reporting period, June 30, what does the storage picture look like? Well, as Dennis mentioned, we have 17 million square feet of owned self-storage, $24 million of managed storage, which brings us to a total of $41 million net rentable square feet of U-Haul branded, self-storage throughout the United States and Canada.

From a occupancy perspective, where are we at? Over a trailing 12 months, June to June, we're just under 80% occupancy. We consider stabilized occupancy depending upon the location. It could be anywhere between 85% to 90%. So you can see from that number, we have some growth opportunities just in the existing portfolio. If you were to do a kind of a simple calculation and exclude the effects of new acquisitions or rate movements, every 1% increase in occupancy over the course of the year will translate into an additional $2 million of revenue. And with most of the costs associated with these storage facilities already sunk, once you have the facility, that occupancy increases, most of that revenue is going to come down to the bottom line.

Now, storage is a capital-intensive endeavor. And Slide #3 shows CapEx over the last several years. I believe it's the last 6 years, how have we been spending our money? The bottom part of this chart, the orange portion is how much we've been spending on fleet, the blue component is real estate spending, and then the yellow is everything else. It includes programs such as the U-Box program, infrastructure projects, system-related, anything that the accounting rules require that we capitalize those costs. And then, also, the service vehicles that our field force uses to administer the business. So what this shows is that over the last 6 years at least, our average fleet spend has been about $450 million. That's gross CapEx, so that's just how much we're spending to build new trucks, trailers and towing devices. If you were to exclude the low year and the high year, on average, we've been right around $500 million. As J.T. mentioned in his presentation, we are -- we've been strategically increasing the size of the fleet. So this is going to have an effect on our gross CapEx. We're going to see gross CapEx begin to edge up probably somewhere north of $550 million to $600 million based upon the current fleet plans. Now when you take into account sales of retired equipment, a net CapEx number, that number is typically run between $320 million and $400 million for us. We're probably going to end up towards the high end of that range but not too far out of that historical net CapEx range. From a real estate perspective, last year, in fiscal 2013, we invested $170 million into the storage program, primarily. This year so far, just in the first quarter, we've increased that number to 100 -- just under $100 million. I think it's important to note that cash flows from operations over the last 6 years would have almost been enough to cover these investments that we've made in the -- of a capital nature.

And moving onto Slide 4. This is a leverage slide, and it shows how much do we owe and in what areas. The bottom part of this stacked chart shows our on balance sheet debt, so that's loans for fleet and for real estate, as well as capitalized leases for the fleet. The blue component is the -- our best estimate at that point in time, if we had to capitalize all of our off-balance sheet operating leases, what would that look like if we've put it onto the balance sheet? And then, at the very top part, I have on the first 2 years, in yellow, is the preferred stock. That will be at about $150 million, a little north of $150 million of preferred stock outstanding. That was repaid in fiscal 2012. So what does this show us? Well, it shows us that, overall, total debt hasn't changed much. If you start from the beginning until the end and look at just total debt, it hasn't changed much. If you factor into that the cash that we've earned from operations, we've actually seen our net debt number come down over the last several years. And we have been very liquid and to kind of touch on that, Slide #5, touches on our maturity schedule. So this shows, for the next 4 years in detail, the maturities that we have coming due whether its a loan amortization or loan repayment, fleet-related debt is in orange and real estate's in blue. And what sticks out the most from this slide is the fiscal 2016 maturity, and Joe mentioned this during his comments at our last earnings call. And that is, in July of 2015, we have a couple of senior mortgages that are coming due. In total, for 2016, we have $430 million of real estate related maturities, $368 million of that is attached to just these 2 loans. So these 2 loans are part of the reason that we've been staying fairly liquid. Gary Horton, our Treasurer and the rest of his treasury team, have been working to smooth out our maturities here over time and have had a great deal of success with that. This is kind of the last big piece that they have to work on and they're working on it right now. We believe that the ultimate disposition of this loan is going to bring more predictability, more stability to our capital structure and open up some options that we may not have had before with regards to our capital.

And then Slide #6, just briefly, as a summary. It shows the 3 major operating segments that we have, Moving and Storage, and then the 2 insurance companies. And what this shows is that over time, we've seen steady improvement over the last several years in each one of those segments and has resulted in an improved EPS number, and all of the programs that we've talked about today, the culmination of those is an increased shareholder value. And to put a number of that, you can see our stockholders equity. So thank you for your time and attention.

Edward J. Shoen

Thanks, Jason. That concludes the presentation part of this. And I'm now going to turn it over to Sebastien Reyes, our Investor Relations person. He will vocalize some of the questions that have come in over the Internet and then we'll try to give you an answer.

Question-and-Answer Session

Sebastien Reyes

Great, thanks, Joe. The first question is what would it take for a potential new competitor to U-Haul to have an impact?

Edward J. Shoen

Well, there's new competitors all the time out there. We're in a variety of markets. I would be a little surprised to see a totally new competitor come in all over North America and try to go toe-to-toe with our U-Haul products but we see people coming in all the time, regional competitors, our narrower product line competitors, so the answer is I don't see one coming in across the board but within different products lines or different geographic areas, it's extremely competitive. And we're very aware of that, and I think that keeps us on our toes. J.T., would you?

John C. Taylor

I concur totally with that.

Sebastien Reyes

We received a number of questions regarding a stock split. What are your thoughts on splitting the stock?

Edward J. Shoen

Well, as you are no doubt all aware from reading our public financial reporting, AMERCO is what's known as a controlled company under NASDAQ rules. I heard the suggestion at our last investor conference call regarding the stock split -- in our last earnings call regarding stock split. I believe I understand what is being suggested. I recently communicated this matter to the control group and there was no consensus to proceed as has been suggested. So I will be pursuing my remaining priorities and that won't be a stock split.

Sebastien Reyes

Regarding your balance sheet, could you please provide some additional explanation on what the investment contract liability line represents?

Edward J. Shoen

Mark, could you take that question?

Mark A. Haydukovich

Sure, sure. The investment contract line is -- really represents the account balances for those deferred annuity policyholders. If you sell them all up like a bank account, that would be the amount that, that line represents.

Edward J. Shoen

Thanks, Mark.

Sebastien Reyes

For the Life Insurance segment, what portion of your sales comes from Medicare supplement versus Life Insurance versus annuity products? What portion of your invested assets can be attributed to each product line?

Edward J. Shoen

Mark?

Mark A. Haydukovich

I'll give you an answer on the split of business by looking at our kind of our current run rate on business. Right now, our Medicare supplement is going to run about $100 million of revenue per year. Our Life Insurance segment will do around $60 million. And at the pace we're at, on the annuity sales, we might be between $100 million and $125 million a year in terms of sales revenue. As far as the balance sheet, it follows pretty closer to do that. The health side doesn't have as much asset accumulation as the Life and annuity side. I believe our annuity portfolio might be near $600 million of assets. The Life side would be near $350 million, $360 million and the health side might be near $40 million or $45 million.

Edward J. Shoen

Thanks, Mark. Sebastien, another question?

Sebastien Reyes

When did the interest rate swaps come off? And why were they covering so much of your debt?

Edward J. Shoen

Well, I'll give a little preamble before I let Jason. Basically, a burned child is scared of fire. So over the last 40 years, we've seen a lot of interest rate variability which we haven't seen over the last 5 years. So, Jason?

Jason A. Berg

Sure, thanks, Joe. Regarding when they expire, our interest rate swaps are coterminous with the underlying debt instruments that we hedge. So generally speaking, that's between 2014 and 2019 calendar years. We do have a couple of detailed schedules in the 10-Q and the 10-K that show, by contract, when we entered into them, the rates that they're hedged at and also when they expire.

Sebastien Reyes

What about the propane business? How can we quantify the size of this business?

Edward J. Shoen

J.T.?

John C. Taylor

Our propane business, it has about 1,100 locations in the U.S. and Canada. We're the largest retailer in all of the U.S. and Canada of propane. So I guess, 1,100 locations.

Edward J. Shoen

So we don't have a publicly-released number on propane sales. So he was unable to give you 1 here today.

Sebastien Reyes

You do not report profitability by separate revenue line, for example, by self-storage or by truck and trailer rental. Is that because you don't feel it's necessary, or because you don't have the reporting capabilities?

Edward J. Shoen

Well, maybe Jason and I can tag team that one. I would suggest that you go visit a U-Haul company-owned location, what we call U-Haul Moving and Storage center, or go visit a dealer and what you'll see is that the same person, the same physical plant is doing propane, self-storage, hitches, truck rentals, trailer rentals. So we have a unified delivery which gives us some murkiness on costs, maybe I'll say. Jason, you want to try it a different way?

Jason A. Berg

No, that's exactly the path that we go now. It's a blended product offering. So really in -- it's not that we don't have the systems available to do that, but for the precision that would be necessary to make these assumptions in a public filing and tell people that, that is exact enough for them to make investment decisions off of. The -- we call it the U-Haul System because it all blends together as 1 system. And if you're missing 1 part of it, it doesn't work the right way. So that's how we've addressed it. We attempt to show as much detail in revenues as we can, but it's all being delivered through the kind of the same delivery system. So we can't break out the cost that way.

Edward J. Shoen

At the operative level, let me assure you, we have information and we have opinions that every location as to the profitability of every single segment, but those aren't GAAP accounting measurements or whatever the correct term is today. And so, we don't make those numbers public, but we do use them operationally and it's a very -- we're very much interested in having a grip on that.

Sebastien Reyes

The Moving segment was quite strong in Q1, and you indicated continued strength in Q2. To what do you attribute this strength to?

Edward J. Shoen

J.T.?

John C. Taylor

Well, I think I hit on a couple of those earlier. I think it's increased service to the customers by our U-Haul managed centers and our neighborhood dealers. I think that's a huge part of it. We've added, as we said earlier, centers and also added independent dealer locations, and that's been a very big part of all of that. So service and locations has played a key role.

Sebastien Reyes

How variable are your operating costs? When I look at operating expenses as a percentage of revenues, I see they have come down indicating some leverage there.

Edward J. Shoen

Jason, would you hit that?

Jason A. Berg

Sure. We feel there's a whole lot of operating leverage built in to the system. So -- but it kind of depends upon what revenue line is increasing. So there's a lot of detail to that. For example, last year, I believe that 60% -- I think the operating expense has only increased 60% of the total revenue increase last year. So we have the truck rental, the storage are the 2 [ph] the largest one is retail sales. Our 3 largest expense categories are personnel expense, equipment maintenance on the fleet and liability costs associated with operating the fleet. So amongst those 3, the personnel costs fluctuates. However, as we mentioned in some of our earnings calls, we have been picking up some margin on personnel costs here, as we've been able to increase revenue faster than personnel costs. On fleet maintenance, fleet maintenance primarily varies with the overall health and age of the fleet. It isn't something that is terribly variable in relation to revenue. And then, the liability costs, Doug touched on this a little bit in his presentation, we're doing a lot of things to manage those. We're at historical high operating margins right now for Moving and Storage. And if we -- if revenue were to continue at the current rate, there's no reason to believe that there isn't some more margin left in our existing structure.

Edward J. Shoen

Thanks, Jason.

Sebastien Reyes

How do you dispose of your fleet? What channels do you use?

Edward J. Shoen

J.T.?

John C. Taylor

We have a couple of different channels that we utilize in disposing our fleet. We use auctions, auctions throughout the U.S. and Canada, that will sell our -- some of our fleet, and we also do a lot of direct sales at both at our U-Haul centers and neighborhood dealers, and they both do the sales.

Edward J. Shoen

It might get a little more specific. Additionally, as Dennis O'Connor talked about in Storage, we utilize some of our van boxes as sustainable self-storage rooms, and we do not -- or essentially do not sell either trailers or hand trucks other moving -- support moving items. So those items, we typically do not sell. We use them for their entire economic life.

Sebastien Reyes

Have in-town moves become a more profitable part of the business than one-way moves?

John C. Taylor

I'll take that one. I think it's in -- we don't really look at it that way. Our trucks and all of our fleet are serving both one-way and in-town customers. So really, you need both revenue streams. I've never broken down it to say one is more profitable than the other. I think you need both streams in order to have a truck be profitable.

Sebastien Reyes

Has the company's ability to get price increases differ for one-way versus the in-town moves?

Edward J. Shoen

J.T., I'll give that one to you again.

John C. Taylor

Can you ask that again.

Sebastien Reyes

Sure. Has the company's ability to get price increases differ from one-way versus in-town moves?

John C. Taylor

I don't know if I have an answer to that.

Edward J. Shoen

It's very specific. It varies by model. It varies by geographic part of the country. I don't think we can give a generalization there.

Sebastien Reyes

Why would the company not consider a REIT for its self-storage operations?

Edward J. Shoen

We actually first intensively studied a REIT a little over 20 years ago. And at that time, we concluded it wasn't in our best interest. We've looked at it less intensively 2 or 3 times in the intervening years. And basically, what the net effect is that, as I've alluded to earlier, essentially, every location where we provide self-storage, the same personnel, the same facility provides U-Haul self move, U-Haul retail sales, propane and hitch installation, and there's a significant customer crossover. So were we to try to segment it, our first problem would be, could we segment it at all? And then, everybody would be squawking that they're the one who baked the bread and someone else is getting the bread. So the long and the short of it is that it doesn't fit our operations, and that's really the problem.

Sebastien Reyes

How does management think about its debt leverage?

Edward J. Shoen

Jason, do you want to touch on that?

Jason A. Berg

Sure. We think, for the type of business that we're in, we have a reasonable amount of leverage. In fact, you could argue that, if you're to go through our real estate asset, that there's still some additional leverage that the company could shoulder on top of that. So we view our leverage in a long-term nature just as the way that we view the company. So our focus is to try to match the leverage with the types of assets that we have. So on the real estate, we're looking for longer term financing. On the trucks, we're more focused at matching the life of a truck and as far as the amortization schedule goes, the final maturity.

Sebastien Reyes

Is the company actively considering a regular dividend?

Edward J. Shoen

Not at this time, no. As we talked about during the last earnings call, we have a maturity bump coming up in the next 2 years. And so, leverage and liquidity are both kind of very related subjects as you probably know better than I do. So I don't see that happening in the next 24 months.

Sebastien Reyes

Any plans for becoming more active on the Investor Relations area?

Edward J. Shoen

Well, of course, Investor Relations is very important. Like many of you watching this, me and my family are big investors in U-Haul. Every person, who's been here is a full-time system member over a year, is a shareholder through our employee stock ownership plan. So we're very interested in Investor Relations, and I -- we're attempting to step it up again this year. So the answer is yes.

Sebastien Reyes

This is a 2-part question. Is volume on the truck side coming from dealer expansion or organic volume growth of current dealers? How much more room is there to grow the network?

Edward J. Shoen

I think there's significant room to grow the network. No one can accurately define that because we're kind of in an area that no one else has ventured into. Presently, we have about 16,000 dealer operations in North America and something over 1,500 company-run stores. So we can surely hit that many. How many more? I don't know. Part of our strategy is that dealers serve a marketer or trade area and that they don't need to grow beyond that. So we would rather than have a mega-dealer in a metropolitan area, we believe that the customer wants several more modest-sized dealerships, and that's our strategy. Because of that, I would expect the total number of dealers to continue to grow.

Sebastien Reyes

Would you be able to give market share information for both your storage and moving businesses? And how do the -- how have the market shares been trending?

Edward J. Shoen

Well, I'd like to receive market share information on both of those businesses. We have opinions, which are basically opinions, and that's confidential proprietary information. There is no national database of that, that I'm aware of. And our -- the people we compete against often are either nonpublic or otherwise jealously guard that information. So, no, I don't have it to give out. And if I really had it, I'd probably put it under a hat and keep it for the benefit of myself and the rest of the shareholders of AMERCO rather than share it over the Internet with our competitors.

Sebastien Reyes

Can you please explain why a company with such ubiquitous brand name recognition is being hidden behind AMERCO? It's been said before, but changing the name of the company would be extremely beneficial to existing shareholders.

Edward J. Shoen

Well, that's a good -- that question presumes the answer. So I guess that's a matter of opinion.

Sebastien Reyes

Does the company have alternative operating plans for its rated insurance affiliate? Should the current rating from A.M. Best be downgraded?

Edward J. Shoen

Well, a little bit off-the-cuff, if A.M. Best downgrades our 2 insurance companies, I would suggest that you seek a different rating company because that would be people vastly missing the point. So, Mark, I don't know if you could -- did you understand that question?

Mark A. Haydukovich

I don't know if I understood it. But our actions and our success is leading to an action by the rating agencies to upgrade us, and that's where our plan is and I think we've proven that over time and it's up to them to now act.

Edward J. Shoen

Not see a rating downgrade in the future?

Mark A. Haydukovich

No, no. Not at all. No.

Edward J. Shoen

Doug Bell, you -- again, you're familiar with that subject much more than I am. What -- is there something going on there that shareholders would want to know about? Is there something pending?

Douglas M. Bell

No. In fact, A.M. Best just affirmed our rating -- B rating and affirmed our stable outlook.

Sebastien Reyes

Regarding new buildings, how long before they get to occupancy rates of 80%? If it is less than 2 years, how do you factor in estimated earnings?

Edward J. Shoen

It's the exception where you get to 80% in less than 2 years, and when you get to 80% generally varies with the size of the facility. So an 80,000 square-foot facility will have a longer rent-up than a 35,000 square-foot facility. There's a lot of questions inside of that as to where do you optimize your long-term margins and that's, I think is, again, probably -- it's our proprietary look at it and I know our competitors in the self-storage business all have an opinion about it. I can assure you that Dennis looks at that very actively. On every location, we do a -- of course, we do a forecast that goes out. We forecast that at least 10 years and, of course, is in all of those things, the first year or 2, the forecast are more accurate than they are out the 8th to 10th year but we're actively forecasting that, monitoring our performance to it. We've exceeded it. The best I've ever seen us do on a full-sized, let's say, 45,000 or 50,000 square-foot facility in 6 months to 90%. The worst I've seen us do on a facility like that is probably 5 years. So there's 2 years, if everyone came in at 2 years and you are at 80% or 85%, I think we would consider that pretty acceptable results.

Sebastien Reyes

The quality and life of your vehicles seems to be improving. How does this impact your capital expenditures and profitability? Also, how are you changing your vehicles for the future benefit of the company and the consumer?

Edward J. Shoen

Well, U-Haul has a lot of firsts in the truck rental and trailer rental business. If you were to look and just take a snapshot today, we're the only company with any significant aerodynamic devices on the truck. The prime driver of fuel economy is the aerodynamic nature -- or the lack of aerodynamic nature of that square box going down the road. We're very aggressive there with both how we build the van box, how we -- we're the only people who use side deflectors. They're very common in the over the road trucking business. You almost don't see a modern trucker without those wind deflectors below the belt line of the truck. Well, U-Haul has been using those pretty consistently for 20 years. None of our competitors have chosen to do that in the self move business. We're very fortunate today that we're getting the most reliable truck we've experienced in the years that we've been in the truck rental business. So of course, vehicles cost more. And I don't -- I couldn't give you a 20-year economic trade-off value, but there's so many hidden costs when a truck is not reliable but nearly anything you can do that will give you proven and improved reliability is worth paying for. So we're seeing that in the cost of new equipment. I would say -- J.T.?

John C. Taylor

[indiscernible]

Edward J. Shoen

But to give you an anecdote, we're buying a lot of Fords today. Ford's warranty claims are so down that it's impacting their dealer organization severely. Their quality is so high, the consumers, including U-Haul company, are not seeing anywhere near the warranty repairs that they were used to 10 years ago, nowhere near as either a percentage or frequency. So we're very blessed with a good product from Ford right now.

Sebastien Reyes

I understand how U-Box fits in with self-storage and moving business. But how does car share fit in with the basic business to make it a worthwhile long-term investment in terms of dollars and manpower?

Edward J. Shoen

That's a technology that's upon us, and it's going to be incumbent on us to master the technology, and car share is the form in which that technology is going to be mastered.

Sebastien Reyes

Does U-Haul rent its boxes or just sell them to consumers? And if so, how does that impact profitability?

Edward J. Shoen

Do you mean cardboard boxes? I'm not sure what you mean there.

Sebastien Reyes

That's how I understand the question.

Edward J. Shoen

Our cardboard boxes, we exclusively sell. We do not rent. We have a whole program of what we call reuse. So we have what we call a take-a-box, leave-a-box center at pretty muchly every single U-Haul company operation and many dealer operations or consumers individually, when they're done with the boxes, if they no longer have a need for them, they deposit them in this take-a-box, leave-a-box area and those boxes are available to the next customer who chooses to use them. So we do a lot in recycling, reuse, but we do not do any rental of cardboard boxes.

Sebastien Reyes

What has been the growth of owned, excluding managed, self-storage revenue over the past 5 years?

Edward J. Shoen

Dennis? Do you know that, or do you know -- can you see it in your data?

Dennis O'Connor

[indiscernible] I'll take a shot at it. [indiscernible] in the presentation I showed, last 3 years, it's been 11%. In the last 8 years, it's been 6%. So we really started trending up out of the -- we had -- occupancy decline is really starting in fiscal '08 and then into '09. We've been trending up past that, but I would say that probably over the last 5 years we've been closer to maybe a 7% or 8% growth rate.

Sebastien Reyes

Can you talk a bit about the current market size for do-it-yourself moving in North America? How much market share to your current belief you have? What are the company's targets as it relates to market share? And what do you believe are the biggest obstacles to achieve?

Edward J. Shoen

Again, we don't know of any reliable market share information. The information we use internally is proprietary. We believe that the market -- it depends on the particular segment, but there's geographic segments and then there's a national market. So we break it down. I would assure you we are keenly aware of it, and there's some significant variability as you would go to various marketplaces across North America. So this is -- we're always clawing for a better position with a customer. But any market share measurement is very difficult to be accurate with. Kind of, with this aside, the whole do-it-yourself mentality in North America has exploded over the last 30 years. This is just -- it's a good trend to be in, do-it-yourself. People are do-it-yourself crazed. There's shows on TV that show you how to do it yourself. There's all kind of websites that show you how to do it yourself. So people -- there's a lot of do-it-yourself action out there, and we're ended up to our eyeballs. So I think we're competitive. I have areas in the company I am seeking improvements in, I'm disappointed with. I have other areas that are leading the way, and I'm trying to get the rest of the company to come along with that leadership.

Sebastien Reyes

Which macro factors tend to be most correlated with your businesses?

Edward J. Shoen

We -- okay. I'll let Jason have 1 cut.

Jason A. Berg

Sure. I'll take it from a statistical standpoint and macroeconomic factors. And several years ago, we started this process back when the housing market went bust, and everyone thought that our business was going to go away at that point and we started looking at things. And on the truck side of the business, we weren't able to find, and to quote my analyst here, "any statistically correlated factors to the U-Move business." I mean, the U-Move business is so based upon just activity regardless of whether or not it's "good or bad within society." It's just activity. On the storage side, the only one that we got to come back that was statistically significant, I don't think it added a lot of value to it, but [indiscernible] just based upon gross employment in an area. So the more people that had money in the area, the more storage you could rent. So that wasn't terribly useful. One thing that we're looking at now that came up in a recent call was just looking at overall population patterns and see if that has any correlation to the moving business as well, and we haven't finished that study yet.

Edward J. Shoen

And I look forward to seeing the results of it, but I'm jaundiced because I've done that study myself personally twice in my life, and I am confident you won't get a good correlation. I've been associated with U-Haul. The better part of 35 years came from an analytical orientation. I'm an overeducated person. I've been -- I spent a lot of time in formal education. My observation is that the size of the market varies with our focus and the confidence of the team and that the cycle is not a year. It's much different than a year. How can I say it, it's a 3-, 5- or 7-year cycle, but the cycle is not a year. So I would say, in my observation, the biggest thing has been our competence and focus.

Sebastien Reyes

Well, Joe, there are no more questions at this time, but I want to remind everyone that a replay of this webcast will be available on the AMERCO site early next week.

Edward J. Shoen

Well, I thank each of you for your continued support. I encourage you to use and to recommend to others that they use our products and services. And I look forward to good results in the upcoming period. Thank you again.

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