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Executives

Paul Clancy – CFO

Doug Williams – EVP of R&D

Al Sandrock – SVP of Neurology Research and Development

Analysts

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

Biogen Idec Inc. (BIIB) Deutsche Bank BioFEST Conference December 3, 2013 10:45 AM ET

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

Great, thank you for joining us. My name is Robyn Karnauskas, the analyst at Deutsche Bank. Next we have Biogen Idec and I’m very pleased to have three members of the Biogen management team. We have Paul Clancy, Chief Financial Officer, Doug Williams, the Executive Vice President of R&D at Biogen and Al Sandrock, Senior Vice President of Neurology Research and Development.

So, thank all of you for coming, we really appreciate it. I actually would like to start off with the science actually, I think is that the pipeline of most interest to me right now at Biogen when you talk about LINGO, what are your thoughts and what are we going to get out of the data next year at LINGO, and what are the end points that helps us to understand what those endpoints are and I know you still before maybe it’s not a direct read, becoming the next year in MS but what might you – what might you really excited about the data in MS.

Unidentified Company Representative

So, it’s actually studying optic neuritis, and will be looking at a visual function so patients with optic neuritis get loss of visual acuity specially contrast acuity that they recover so we will see whether or not our LINGO reach to improve the recovery. So the first thing is visual function. Next we will also look at nerve conduction using visual evoked responses if there is modulation as we hope to see. There should be an improvement in nerve conduction. So we can measure that. We will also look by OCT at the retinal ganglion cells and the retina to see whether those cells are protected by the improved modulation that we expect to see. But the main thing is visual function. It's the best place to evaluate function in the nervous system really.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

And if you see nerve conduction, what that tells you that in MS that you will see a benefit?

Unidentified Company Representative

Yes, I think for me nerve the nerve conduction velocity in conjunction with visual function would tell us that we have re-modulation and would give us some hope that we would see efficacy in MS. We do have another study though called relapse, it's the study in relapsing MS patients where we are looking at more doses and we are also – there we can't look at function very well, we are looking at lesions, the reason why we can't look at the function is that most lesions have no functional consequences, they are silent. They are critically silent but we can in the brain look very carefully with imaging modalities whether or not we see an improvement in function – in re-modulation and nerve fiber integrity. And the advantage of that study is that anti-LINGO is given continuously so the drug is already there when the lesion occurs. It's there at the earliest possible moment and as I said it's a dose ranging study so we will have better idea about dose.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

Can you help us understand for the first study a little bit more about the metrics and what would be good data, what would be bad data for the --?

Unidentified Company Representative

We do have a placebo control. So everything will be related to placebo and then we have the solo eye as well. So these are all first time optic neuritis patients and so the advance there is that we can compare sort of like normalize if you will to the opposite eye. We can compare the impairment that we see in the affected eye versus the normal eye when we look at the drug effect versus placebo. So what we would hope to see is that it's a six months study because we know that’s where visual function plato -- we hope to see is what we will see a higher plato visual function relative to placebo in the anti-LINGO arm.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

Okay. And do you view which study -- having greater risk?

Unidentified Company Representative

Well they both – they complement each other. As I said one looks more function, the other looks more -- which in some way is a reproduction of what we saw in the animals. I mean I think getting visual function improvement since function is sort of the bottom line, I think in some ways that’s the higher hurdle. If we see improvement in function, I almost don’t care whether I see improvement in nerve conduction because ultimately that’s what we want to do with our patients is to improve their function. So --

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

Okay. That’s helpful. And then on the secondary progressive MS, when could we see the data like beginning of 2015, the end of 2015?

Unidentified Company Representative

I forget exactly the timing. I know we finished enrolments sort of midyear, so it will probably be toward the – we are not saying I guess.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

Great, 2015. Other reduction sales in secondary progression about that, what are your thoughts into -- what data sort of gives you comfort that there is -- possibly this could work in this education?

Unidentified Company Representative

There is biological rationale and there is clinical rationale. The biological rational is that in STMS patients, about 45% to 50% of patients have what are called ectopic terminal syndromes. These are (indiscernible) follicle that are associated with gray matter disease. And we are now starting to learn more and more of that MS has a big gray mater component that could be very – it seems to be even more important for secondary progressive MS. When these centers form there is a chemo kind called CX13 that’s accreted into the CSS, so we can measure CSS CX13 as a proxy for whether or not those germinal centers are still there. We know that when you treat patients with Tysabri that you decrease CX13 level suggesting Tysabri effects, the integrity of those germinal centers. So that’s the biological rationale that we have.

The clinical rationale is that we have a lot of data from registry type studies and long term extension studies that report that people have improvement in ambulation, not everybody but some patients do improve in ambulation. Some patients also seem to improve in cognition. So we have an end point that, that’s the composite end point that includes ambulation as a big piece. So if we see the same thing that we are seeing in these registry type studies then we should have an effect on our composite end point that’s being used in the STMS study.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

In the registry, what percentage of people have a benefit on ambulation?

Unidentified Company Representative

I don’t remember what percentage, but if you look at the mean overall there does seem to be an improvement overtime and you compare that many of these studies – the short coming is that they don’t have a placebo control. So we have to compare to natural history studies but on average patients do seem to improve. I don’t have a number on the proportion of patients that have improved.

Unidentified Company Representative

There were three different studies I think that were all directionally consistent in term of ambulation parameters and end point that we have got is negotiated with the agencies it’s a novel end point as Al mentioned as a composite that has an SPA with the FDA so.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

Okay. And when you look about – we’re talking about the trial that did not succeed do you know whether Rituxan actually increased the CX13?

Unidentified Company Representative

Yes, I think you are referring to the Rituxan?

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

Yes.

Unidentified Company Representative

Yes, and so the PPMS certainly the early reports the people who were studying these ectopic germinal centers they made it very clear that they don’t seem them in PPMS. So biologically there seems to be a difference SPMS and PPMS. What Rituxan did show was that in the patients who had enhancing lesions in the brain or evidence of information and if they were younger, then there wasn’t effect and that’s not too surprising and I would expect that many, expect modulators would have that effect. But I think whether – so if you look at it ectopic centers, the patho-physiology of PPMS might actually be different from SPMS. So I am not sure you can include the negative trial in PPMS that from that SPMS will also be negative.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

Do you have a sense of how much Tysabri is being used right now or what patients are on who have secondary progression MS, you have heard from different doctors that they are being treated.

Unidentified Company Representative

So patients with SPMS can still have relapses. And so the label for Tysabri in the U.S. is that is indicative of people with relapsing forms of MS. So relapsing SPMS patients are eligible for Tysabri and I don’t know the exact numbers but I agree with you that there are a large number of SPMS patients that are on Tysabri. Keep in mind though that the transition point from RRMS to SPMS is not like one day use only transition. So people who are having relapses in the SPMS stage at some point they have converted from RRMS to MS. So I think it would be very hard to know for sure when that transition point occurred.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

Is it incremental opportunity though? I mean?

Unidentified Company Representative

Yes, I think it is. We are including people who are not relapsing as well. The agencies both Europe and U.S. have made it very clear you have to do study in SPMS patients. They generally have a higher EDSS score and you can't get indicative for SPMS unless you do studies specifically in SPMS. So it would be incremental.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

What percentage of patients don’t have relapses who have SPMS, -- for the incremental?

Unidentified Company Representative

Well I don’t know. I know that SPMS population you know in terms of prevalence is about 35% and some fraction perhaps as many as half would be in the relapses category for that – I don’t know that for sure.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

Any rationale for working in primary progression?

Unidentified Company Representative

I do think that the same population that Rituxan works in, I don’t see any reason why Tysabri wouldn’t work in that population either because these are people with information in the brain and we know that Tysabri is very good at blocking information of the brain. It would have to be tested though.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

Okay. Question for Paul. Two questions actually. First I guess one of the questions is what are the next steps in timing for rollout in Europe and how do we think about the rollout ramp?

Paul J. Clancy

Yes. The next step is EC approval that’s their time line. So I mean we are currently so we don’t know exactly when that will be. But, generally speaking roughly a couple of months, we are planning for Q1 of 2014 to begin a stage launch in country-by-country basis. I think that’s the best way to think about it which is very typical of Europe is country-by-country basis. Our expectations are the lead country would be Germany. And subsequent countries after that in a normal fashion it's not crystal clear exactly which ones. It highly depends on the reimbursement process and the conversations on country-by-country basis.

I would expect that and this can take anywhere in between six and 18 months that much of a range by the time you get into all of the 26 or 27 countries in Europe. I would expect it to be probably more than the average country-by-country just because there are other MS therapies out there. And then I think as we have talked about in the past and I think many people know about the pricing in Europe is kind of fraction of the pricing in the United States that can range anywhere from a third to 50% of the net prices that’s realized on a country-by-country basis versus the United States. So I mean that’s just you know, something to be mindful of as well. In that very can -- is driven by there are different prices by in different countries and there are different prices in each of the countries whether or not it's determined as the first line or second line which is more specific to its multiple --

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

So we be modeling 30% discount you are -- ?

Paul J. Clancy

I think we will have to see and I mean it could actually be slightly different country-by-country as well.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

Okay. And then the question just regarding capital allocation, so looking at the consensus numbers it looks like the sheet doesn’t model lot of share buyback and you have historically done a lot of share buyback. Remodel share buybacks. I was wondering what you were thought is on capital allocation especially (indiscernible)?

Paul J. Clancy

Well, I don’t think it's a huge departure from what we done in the last ten years. It's obviously we hope that it will be bigger numbers that the high class problem that we have. But our thinking is I mean certainly the first order of capital deployment and the most important thing we can do is build the pipeline. We have been very successful and I think our buyers continues to be around what I loosely term tuck in acquisition and they are not technically all the time acquisitions but they are kind of business development activity with our buyers towards pre-proof of concepts activity phase one, phase two, even pre-clinical type deals that really kind of build the pipeline in the areas of focus. If you look at this cohort of new therapies that we are launching right now the vast majority come from those buyers. And so we have been very, very successful on doing that. I think that on the more conservative one on the management team but I give credit to George, Douglas, and Al I think we actually have the team of people that actually can make that equation work even stronger because it's all above technical likelihood of success at that point. It's all about really understanding the disease there is and the therapies and the molecule. So that is our first order of priority which you could say it's kind of part and parcel to the business that we are in R&D. We have created a lot of share holder value in that way.

With that said, I suspect that we will have excess capital and we hope under most scenarios that we will have excess capital and we will look towards the most smartest way to return that capital to shareholders over time; nothing really to report today on that dynamic. But we expect that hopefully we will be in that situation.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

And what do you think gross margin is going over time?

Paul J. Clancy

So the gross margins have dipped down a little bit the last few quarters. The result of the Tysabri asset acquisition and that is right on just the different dynamics in terms of the P&L. I think the gross margins over the next handful of years will be a big function of the product mix. Tecfidera has a very favorable gross margin vis-à-vis our corporate average, Plegridy has very strong gross margins vis-à-vis our corporate average. I think the gross margins that relates to kind of the hemophilia, the long acting factory and factory nine probably more in the – closer to the average. So I think that we have very much the function of the product mix as we go by but we do think that there is favorable upward movement in gross margins over the next couple of years.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

What about tax rates and the impact of tax rates?

Paul J. Clancy

That one is a little bit harder to predict. I mean our tax rate happens to be a function of the U.S. versus ex-U.S. cash flow mix and I think it actually goes back to the same comment is that depending on the strength of the launches, U.S. versus ex-U.S. we will kind of see that either have upward pressure or downward pressure. We are kind of in around the mid 20s right now.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

Okay. Maybe some questions for Douglas. Can you give me your thoughts a little bit on SMA specimen trial and whether or not you think the phase two is going to give you a real sense of whether or not the product will be successful in phase three?

Douglas Edward Williams

Yes. I think at the moment I will echo what Al said in one of our one-on-one this morning which is I think we are cautiously optimistic about the data that we have seen thus far. We are waiting to see additional data from the repeat dose study in the type two and three patients. That should be available in the first quarter of next year. We have been saying late this year, early next year the point of fact that’s it's probably in the first part of next year that we will get a glimpse of the repeat dose data. What would drive the decision on whether to go forward into registrational studies is really the consistency and the quality of that data particularly with respect to the Hammersmith score. We are also going to be looking at SNM protein levels as potentially as -- for the biological effect that we are hoping to see in these kids. So I think the challenge here is that this is an uncontrolled study obviously. And we all like to see and typically hang our hat on the results from controlled studies that’s what the next series of studies will be. So I think the study we are running right now is a good one in order to trigger moving into registrational studies. We are going to have a lot of data to look at from the ongoing multi-dose study. We also have the infant study that is continuing to accrue patients these are the symptomatic infants with type one disease. So we have a lot of data to look at in the first quarter and I think we will be I think in a position to make a clear go, no go decision based on the data we have available to us at that time.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

Did you add the higher dose? Is there – read into anything that maybe working efficacy or just that it was safe and tolerable -- could have higher dose?

Douglas Edward Williams

Yes, I think the issue there you shouldn’t read anything into that other than this is sort of the – this is the opportunity to actually fully explore the dose range. And so we are now happy to be enrolling patients in that dose cohort. It will just give us I think a more complete picture about the optimal dose to take into the phase two, three studies. If you look at the sort of PK modeling studies that we had done the 9 milligram dose actually got us to a level in the CSF that we thought was effective but I think we want to push the dose and see whether we can see even greater efficacy with a higher dose group. So this is the chance to actually ask that question and get the answer.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

Okay. I assume that it does say that the safety is pretty good at the other dose so the board allow you to go higher?

Douglas Edward Williams

Yes. I think we have been happy with the safety profile of the drug. I remember that this is in – with administration and so far the drug has been well tolerated by the kids who have received the drug so we are – we feel like we have got a safety margin with respect to the drug itself and the ability to dose up to the 12mg dose. Obviously the FDA agreed with that in terms of allowing those studies to continue.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

It's interesting when we have done some care well calls, they would say that in the multiple-dose study if the efficacy is just as good as we thought was with the single dose that would be great for them. Like what are your thoughts on whether or not you can squeeze out multiple-dose you should see a better or continued improvement and what your views is on the bar for what is clinically meaningful?

Unidentified Company Representative

Yes. Well, the (KLL) would tell you that 4 point change in the Hammersmith score is clinically meaningful change. I think we have slightly higher expectations I think for the changes that would need to be seen in order to trigger us to move forward mainly because some of the natural history studies have shown that that level of change happening over the time course that we are looking at in these kids. So we are going to want to see that I think a little bit more robust response. It would be nice to see a dose response. And I guess I agree with the KLL that the single dose data that we have seen so far is encouraging not yet completely convincing. But I think that with a longer duration of treatment and with multiple dosing there is every reason to expect that we are going to see greater efficacy overtime given the way in which this drug works and the downstream events that have to take place in order for that improvement to occur.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

If you see a dose response but you only see a four point improvement, it sounds like that’s not a go decision for you?

Unidentified Company Representative

I think we will have to look at the totality of the data. I can't give you the complete algorithms that we are thinking of in terms of how we are going to look at the data and squint at it, but we are also, we have to recognize this is an open level study that’s being conducted right now and we are mindful of the natural history data that’s out there overtime we hope to see greater degree of improvement in these kids than four points and those response would be nice to see as well.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

Okay, great. Maybe you can touch on 37 in your strategy complete in the Alzheimer space? So what are your thoughts on that product? When do we get the data or -- when we get our next data point?

Unidentified Company Representative

You should get a glimpse of it late next year and I think we are enthusiastic about this study. We have learned a lot from the other data studies that have been conducted previously. It's a phase one B study but it's actually a pretty data rich. Phase one B study that includes more than safety you typically think of a phase one study as a safety study but this one all of the patients are going to be imaged for data analog plat as a pre-requisite for entering the study and not surprisingly we have a lot of screen failures there where patients you think have Alzheimer’s disease actually turn out not to that’s an observation that was made in some of the earlier Alzheimer’s studies which is why really is now actually screening everybody up front as well.

So we know the patients all have the target before we treat them. We are looking for reduction in data levels again by imaging as a proof of mechanism. We are looking at safety based on imaging to look vasogenic edema. I think one of the unique aspects of our study is that we have also included a FEG pet analysis at the end of study to look at synaptic activity as sort of a surge for efficacy if you will and we will also be looking at cognition. The study is obviously not sized or powered to really pick that up given the number of patients but if we saw a trend there if we saw a trend in FEG pet, I think that along with proof of mechanism with a reduction in data that may be enough to trigger us to move right to phase three based on these data.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

And when we get all that data, the end of next year, you said a little bit –?

Unidentified Company Representative

That would be the anticipation as of – we will see that data. That will be the data that we will use to make the decision on whether we go forward in the program.

Question-and-Answer Session

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

I know I have some questions for investors. Any questions in the room? Some questions from investors compare LINGO to the -- ?

Unidentified Company Representative

Well LINGO is quite a bit ahead in terms of medical development. I think one of the issues with the antibody is the isotype of the antibody itself which is it's an IGM which have traditionally been very difficult molecules to manufacture. So from a CMC perspective, it's a real challenge to actually manufacture at scale an antibody of that isotype if you look across the spectrum of antibodies that are registered and available. I can't think of an IGM at the top of my head. And so I think that’s the real challenge for that antibody is really you will be able to get -- antibody which is five times the size of the LINGO antibody through the blood vein barrier to get where it needs to go in order to effect the change in myonation, so I think we like the isotype of antibody. We think we have been able to demonstrate already that we can get sufficient quantities of the anti-LINGO antibody into the CSF that match the levels that were effective in the animal models. That was an important part of the phase one program that we conducted as been able to demonstrate through ourselves that we could get enough antibody in to affect the change in the biology based on the animal models.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

Another question is for Paul. Assuming Rituxan approved next year, how do you see that impacting MS pricing formulary positioning and rebating for MS?

Paul J. Clancy

It’s a good question I mean it's kind of unknown right now. We think that the big impact will be on Copaxone. So there may be in the United States an impact for new patients on with respect to step added. So I mean that’s kind of potential over the next couple of years. But we think the most meaningful impact will be – kind of directly against the Copaxone.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

Do you think that patients might be required to start on Copaxone first before Tecfidera?

Paul J. Clancy

Yes, I think that’s what I was referring to with respect to potential step added and that would be kind of for new patients that –

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

Even over Tecfidera, even though Tecfidera could argue--

Paul J. Clancy

I mean we could argue that that’s a different class. It's oral, etc. so and those will be obviously the arguments that will make but we will see how that plays out.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

When you argue against step added, does it come from you or does it come from the doctor side like who makes the argument that that’s not a fair concept?

Paul J. Clancy

Also both of the influential. Both are influential in that kind of in that dynamic.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

Do you do it, I mean how quickly can you reverse an initial step added plan? Or how quickly in the past have you been able to modify--?

Paul J. Clancy

It hasn’t been a meaningful issue in multiple sclerosis over the last number of years. So it hasn’t really that’s kind of moving into new territory.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

One other question hemophilia, the multiple reasons, surveys have shown significant enthusiasm and uptake potential among hematologist for -- are surveys accurate? It appears that there has been a significant perceptual change on (indiscernible) in the past year. What do you think accounts for that?

Paul J. Clancy

Well, it would just kind of give a little bit of a tempering on the thinking of the uptake, I mean we actually don’t know right. So this has been historically an extremely low switch marketplace but there really hasn’t been a real need to switch. There hasn’t been differentiated products for the most part. We do believe long acting is a meaningful. So that’s certainly where I think all the surveys and all of our work is very, very consistent is that one of the highest unmet need for patients is a longer acting version, a less burdensome therapy. Our expectations is that over a long period of time it's a meaningful switch, it's a long acting as the share of the marketplace with other long acting therapies coming in as well as our certainly with the first mover advantage. The pace of that I think is our expectation in early days will take a little bit of work.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

Well two follow up questions there I guess. Number one, I attended NHF meeting and doctors were saying they were concerned that maybe patients there will be a formulary or people would get how be forced to try one other drug before your drug -- among the doctor community maybe price it out if premium and right now people have access to whatever therapy they want. Are you mindful of that? Any new thoughts on keeping access equal amongst the different factors as far as how you price the drug?

Paul J. Clancy

Yes, I mean nothing to really report on kind of pricing. I mean unfortunately on as it is with all of our new therapies, we will kind of let people know as we introduce the therapy in the marketplace. So I mean we are thinking real hard about it. There is a lot of different dynamics as it relates to kind of pricing but certainly access is a key objective.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

Whenever you hear peer say we are not going to give the main start putting – accreting system if you price that more expensively?

Paul J. Clancy

Yes, I don’t – we hope not that we don’t get into that kind of the situation.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

Okay. And then the second question is -- tempered maybe early in the bidding days but isn’t important to really grab share quickly before other along factors come in the market?

Paul J. Clancy

Yes, I mean, this is similar to that that if a patient moves to a long acting there will be ready to switch to another long acting. So there is a business rationale for trying to get to the market kind of capitalize on our first mover advantage. But we have to balance out all of that equation and then see where the physician acceptance goes.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

To keep expectation well over, but hopefully the ramp will be really quick. Do you have any questions?

Unidentified Participant

Just what's your respective on the collaborations (indiscernible) here and what do you think it brings to your future pipeline?

Unidentified Company Representative

So perhaps we have done I think four now. And so that should tell you that we are excited about the collaboration. We work well together. For me what I like about ISO is that if you look at the diseases we have gone into SMA and hopefully next year DMPK, these are well defined genetic diseases where using their platform should give us the correction if you will, and the biology we need. We think that that platform should allow us to get proof of concept for a whole host of the diseases very rapidly and so we -- in all these four collaborations, we are thinking about ways of going after genetically well defined disease. Some of them are going to be orphan. Some of them are going to be genetically well defined subsets of people larger diseases and really use the platform they get the proof of concept as rapidly as possible. I don’t know if you want to add to that.

Unidentified Company Representative

Well, I think the other advantage that we see is that it represents kind of third leg of a stool in terms of therapeutic approaches. So you have got small molecules which we have, large molecules which we have and now I think the R&A therapeutic field is beginning to emerge as a viable platform for drug development. And the most recent deal we did allows us to utilize the ISO platform as Al says really have very rapid and efficient way of validating new targets that we are identifying through some of our research activity. It kind of plays across the entire spectrum of the R&D portfolio in terms of where we can insert that technology.

Unidentified Participant

Okay. Good.

Unidentified Participant

On LINGO can you remind us of the preclinical animal data on nerve conduction?

Unidentified Company Representative

Well, one place where we saw an effect was in the LINGO knockout. So we can actually measure nerve conduction not only the central nervous system but in the perform of the system shortly after birth. And we see in the absence of LINGO not only is there a more profiles in the spinal cord because most in mammals happens after birth. So early after birth, you see more profile in conjunction with that you see improved nerve conduction velocity in the central nervous system. Interestingly enough when you are looking in the nervous system there is no difference between the LINGO knockout and wild type because lingo is not expressed in the system so there is a nice control in some ways.

Unidentified Participant

What magnitude of improved nerve conduction velocity is meaningful to you?

Unidentified Company Representative

We would love to see statistical difference between the placebo group. I don’t have a preset magnitude that I have in mind. I think it will just be evidence that you have -- that’s functional and there actually in disease nerve conduction velocity doesn’t always correlate very well with function that’s why we also have function as well. To me it's a read out of biology as I think Doug would say, that the -- is there that’s actually improving electrical properties in the fiber that allow for fresher conduction nothing more than that really.

Unidentified Participant

but you need to see for a go decision function and improved –?

Unidentified Company Representative

I think, for me the bottom line is function.

Unidentified Participant

Bottom line is function.

Unidentified Company Representative

Yes.

Robyn Karnauskas - Deutsche Bank

Any last questions for Biogen? Great, thank you very much.

Unidentified Company Representative

Thanks.

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