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Executives

Barbara Baker – VP, Corporate Affairs and IR

Robert Taubman – Chairman, President and CEO

Lisa Payne – Vice Chairman and CFO

Analysts

Andrew Schaffer – Sandler O’Neill

Christy McElroy – Citi

Todd Thomas – KeyBanc

Ross Nussbaum – UBS

Dan Oppenheim – Credit Suisse

Daniel Busch – Green Street Advisors

Mike Mueller – JP Morgan

Craig Schmidt – Bank of America

Steve Sakwa – ISI Group

Ben Yang – Evercore

Omotayo Okusanya – Jefferies

Michael Bilerman – Citi

Taubman Centers, Inc. (TCO) Q4 2013 Earnings Conference Call February 13, 2014 11:00 AM ET

Operator

Thank you for holding. And welcome to the Taubman Centers Fourth Quarter 2013 Earnings Conference. The call will begin with prepared remarks and then we’ll open the line for questions.

On the call today will be Robert Taubman, Taubman Centers’ Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer; Lisa Payne, Vice Chairman and Chief Financial Officer; and Barbara Baker, Vice President, Corporate Affairs and Investor Relations.

Now I will turn the call over to Barbara for opening remarks.

Barbara Baker

Thank you, operator, and welcome everyone to our fourth quarter conference call. As you know, during this conference call, we’ll be making forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Federal Securities Laws. These statements reflect our current views with respect to future events and financial performance, although actual results may differ materially. Please see our SEC filings, including our latest 10-K and subsequent reports for a discussion of the various risks and uncertainties underlying our forward-looking statements.

During this call, we’ll also discuss non-GAAP financial measures as defined by SEC Regulation G. Reconciliations of these non-GAAP financial measures to the comparable GAAP financial measures are included in our earnings release and in our supplemental information.

In addition, a replay of the call is provided through a link on the Investor Relations section of our website. When we get to questions we ask that you limit them to two and then if you have more queue up again. That way everyone has the opportunity to ask a question.

Now let me turn the call over to Bobby.

Robert Taubman

Thanks, Barbara, and good morning everyone. We delivered solid results in the fourth quarter and finished up 2013 with a strong year. FFO was up 11% in the quarter and for the year 9.3%. NOI excluding lease cancellation income was up 1.9% in the quarter and 3.4% for the year.

Rents, comp center occupancy and comp center leased space all were up in the quarter and the year. Average rent per square foot for the quarter was up 3.7% to $48.90. For the year it was up 4.5% with an average rent of $48.52. Including temporary tenants ending occupancy was a strong 96.3%.

Comparable center occupancy was 92.1% at December 31, 2013 up 0.3% from 91.8% a year ago. Leased space in comparable centers was 93.6% at year end, a 150 basis points higher than ending occupancy. This is up 30 basis points from a year ago. These metrics clearly show that retailers continue to demand space in high productivity centers like ours.

We reported our mall tenant sales per square foot excluding non-comparable centers as it is our convention. But for purposes of comparability as we move into 2014 we also excluded Arizona Mills which was sold in late January two weeks ago. Sales for 2013 were $721 per square foot. This is yet another record for both the company and the publicly held U.S. regional mall industry.

Mall tenant sales per square foot grew 1.4% in the quarter. Sales finished the year up 1.8%. Apple was roughly 100 basis points negative to the trend for the year. Sales performance tapered off toward the end of the quarter. October and November were relatively strong but the combination was shortened holiday selling season six days less, weather especially in the Northeast and Midwest and general economic uncertainty impacted December.

Weather has continued to be a significant factor into 2014. I’ve heard the phrase that consumer is literally frozen. Shoppers appear to be (indiscernible) out as all our Florida properties had good increases in the quarter. The high end is doing well so our discount and outlet. Teen retailers and those in the middle are the ones struggling. As we look at various categories, women’s specialty was strong this quarter. Victoria’s Secret was phenomenal. Christian Dior and Louis Vuitton also did well. Fine Jewelry was solid at all price points. Bulgari, Cartier, Van Cleef, Tiffany and Zales had good quarters. All three of our shoe categories, Women’s, Men’s And Family were standouts especially Foot Locker and FootAction.

Women’s apparel was flat but Talbots, J.Jill, and LOFT did very well. To no one surprise Restoration Hardware was once again off the chart. Pottery Barn also had a good quarter. Consistent with teen retailers struggling through the year both junior and unisex apparel impacted this quarter negatively. And not withstanding many reports of our mall traffic slowing our fast food category was up nearly 7% suggesting our traffic was okay. It was a busy January for us. Late in the month we announced the sale of a 49.9% interest in International Plaza to a joint venture between TIAA-CREF, and APG.

The $499 million purchase price infers a $1 billion valuation and highlights the extraordinary growth of this powerhouse operating asset which we developed for about $250 million in 2001. Many of you have commented this is a great regional mall comp. It’s not New York, it’s not California. It’s a dominant asset with smart strategic partners who understand and appreciate the cash flows that emanate from this asset class. Also in late January we completed the sale of our 50% interest in Arizona Mills and our land in Oyster Bay. Regarding Oyster Bay it became clear to us that we would not be able to move forward anytime soon with our development.

We felt it was time to move on and that was prudent to redirect our resources elsewhere. In Arizona Mills it’s a center we were not directly managing which had new competition from Simon’s Phoenix Premium Outlets. It’s a tax efficient sale which allows us to keep the proceeds over time. I think both parties are happy with the outcome from the combined transaction. Since becoming a public company in 1992 with 19 assets we built 14 more, acquired 10 and sold or exchanged 19. Today we own 24 centers. On a net basis just five more than we did in 1992. It’s been our strategy to recycle capital for growth and we aren’t shy about changing and evolving the mix of our centers.

We also remain focused on making our properties better and we continually reinvest in our assets. Since 2008 we renovated, expanded, or built from scratch over half of our centers. Many of you asked about our redevelopment efforts. In the press release and supplemental we provided the details of five redevelopment projects that are already well underway or expected to begin shortly. At the Mall at Green Hills in Nashville, a relocation of the current Dillard’s store and the addition of 170,000 square feet of mall tenant area are set to begin. The project is expected to be completed in 2018.

At Cherry Creek in Denver, we’re adding a 53,000 square foot three level Restoration Hardware stores at mini-anchor as well as about 38,000 square feet of additional in-line mall space. This expansion will occupy the former Saks Fifth Avenue site. The existing mall (indiscernible) area, the building facade at the main entry of the center, which are both next to and attached to the former Saks store, will also be redeveloped at the same time. Demolition of this space is set to begin soon and all work is anticipated to be completed by late 2015.

At Dolphin Mall Miami, we’re planning to add approximately 32,000 square feet at the new restaurant space on a vacant parcel of the property. Construction is expected to commence in April 2014 and be completed by the third quarter of 2015. In January we began a project on the 8th level Beverly Center in Los Angeles. The project will add a net 12,000 square feet including the addition of a new Uniqlo 30,000 square foot mini-anchor. This anchor joined the large format XXI Forever and H&M stores and creates a clear destination to the 8th floor.

In addition we’re creating a new contemporary dining court. Uniqlo will open by late 2014 and the new dining court is expected to open in 2015. Finally at Sunvalley near San Francisco we are converting some existing low level space into a food court. Construction is expected to begin in June and be complete by the middle of 2015. Total cost for all five projects will be around $265 million. We expect to receive a weighted average return of about 8%.

Now for an update on our development projects. In Sarasota we remain on time and on budget. We’re pleased with the progress we made in merchandising and continue to believe that at least half of this center will be unique to market tenants. In December we were delighted to announce our restaurant lineup that includes Brio, Capital Grille, Cheesecake, Kona Grill and Seasons 52. At the Mall of San Juan we’re seeing solid retailer interest from all price points and it made good progress on luxury. Earlier this week the ICSC held its Caribbean Conference in San Juan. Reception for our center was very strong. In advance of the conference there was a high level of enthusiasm for this center at the well-attended event.

Notwithstanding all of the recent press tourism remains very high and is increasing year-over-year as it has for the last several years. Hotel registrations for example were up 5% in 2013. Obviously retailers making lease decisions are not immune to all the negative news on Puerto Rico, but as they consider the Mall of San Juan they’re looking at a new untapped market for the long-term.

We remain on schedule, on our updated budget of $475 million and on pro forma. At International Market Place in Hawaii, we’ll be holding our official groundbreaking in early March. We feel great about the progress we made on this project. There is tremendous tenant demand for this center. In December we announced our involvement in the mall at Miami World Center and the commitment of Macy’s and Bloomingdale’s and one of their best markets in America.

Miami-Dade County has more highly productive retail assets in nearly every market in the U.S. Consistent growth in population and it’s economy strong and growing domestic international tourism coupled with limited supply has created continued unsatisfied demand for retail space. Downtown Miami is a vibrant and growing area with an influx of new dense residential and commercial development. In addition to Miami World, there are two other retail projects underway. The Design District two miles to our north which is focused on the highest end of luxury and a Swire Property at Brickell about a mile to our South which is part of a very significant mixed-use project.

Taken together the three projects are creating the new supply that we believe will satisfy the existing and growing demand in the market. Miami World Center is one of the largest mixed-use developments in the United States and will offer a mix of retail, residential, office, hotel, convention, and entertainment space. It will have direct access from I-95 and I-395 in closed proximity to the Airport, South Beach, the Port of Miami and numerous public rail transportation systems including the high speed rail system to Orlando.

It’s truly an amazing location. We’re delighted to be partnering with the Forbes family on this project. Forbes will take the lead in the development, leasing and management of shopping center similar to the arrangement we’ve had with them at the Mall of Millenia and Waterside Shops, two very successful centers. We’re still working out the details, completing our plan and budget for this center. Both Forbes and ourselves will each own at least one-third of the project and as much as one half depending on their participation of landowner. This center will be approximately 750,000 square feet. This includes 195,000 square foot Macy’s, a 120,000 square foot Bloomingdale’s and over 400,000 square feet of mall shops. We anticipate breaking ground in the fourth quarter of 2014 and are prudently targeting to open in late 2016.

And now Asia things are on target for Xi’an, Zhengzhou, and Hanam. We continue to be on schedule and on budget for all three projects. We’re also well into the leasing efforts especially in Xi’an and Zhengzhou which will open in late 2015. Together with our partner (indiscernible) we recently named the projects, City on Xi’an and City on Zhengzhou. The name City on is one that can easily – they could be easily understood in both Western and Chinese languages and captures the spirit of a place of luxury and high elegance that is on current and new.

I’d now like to turn the call over to Lisa and I’ll return at the end of the call with some closing comments.

Lisa Payne

Thank you, Bobby. This quarter our FFO per share was $1.11, an 18.1% increase over our fourth quarter 2012 FFO per share of $0.94. Included in last year’s results are $0.06 from charges related to the early extinguishment of debt at the Mall of Millenia and taxes on the sale of Taubman TCBL assets in the fourth quarter of 2012. Excluding these one-time items our FFO per share was 11% better than our fourth quarter 2012 adjusted FFO of $1.

Let’s look at the year-over-year variances for the quarter and you’ll find these listed on Page 11 of our supplemental. First rents, up $0.35 from the prior year primarily due to increased rent per square foot in our centers. Net revenue from management leasing and development services was favorable by $0.25 primarily a result of our Taubman Asia third-party operations. Other operating expense was favorable by $0.03 largely a result of reduced redevelopment spending in both the U.S. and Asia.

General and administrative expense was unfavorable by $0.02. As we’ve said at the start of the year we began classifying certain Asia costs in G&A as opposed to predevelopment expense to be consistent with the presentation of our U.S. business. Interest expense was favorable by $0.55. A result of interest savings on the payoff of our loan on Beverly Center and refinancing of our loan on the Mall at Green Hills. In addition we had greater capitalized interest on our development projects.

The impact of our acquisition of additional interest in International Plaza and Waterside Shops affected our results favorably by $0.35 in the quarter. We increased our ownership in these centers in the fourth quarter of 2012. And finally the preferred equity offering that we completed in March of this year impacted our results unfavorably by $0.25. Before we move on I wanted to briefly discuss our NOI growth in the quarter.

On our last call we predicted fourth quarter NOI to be flat compared to last year at 1.9% growth obviously we exceeded our own expectation. You may recall that we said that we expected net recoveries to be down in the quarter. As a result of management actions taken in the quarter to cut discretionary expenses and with better than expected sponsorship and other income we were able to drive NOI growth.

Now turning to our balance sheet and our recent financing activity. In November we announced a new $475 million unsecured term loan and the term loan was partially used to pay off the 5.28% $305 million on Beverly Center. This term loan was swapped to bear interest in the range of 3% to 3.55% depending on total leverage of the company. So pricing is very favorable and will have significant cost savings. Today the rate is 3%. We use the remaining proceeds to pay-down our lines of credit.

Also in November we completed the closing of a new five year non-recourse $150 million loan on the Mall at Green Hills. The new loan bears interest at an all-in floating rate of one month LIBOR plus 175 basis points. Proceeds were used to extinguish the existing $105 million loan and to reduce outstanding borrowing under our lines of credit. As Bobby mentioned we’re planning a major renovation of this center and this loan is structured with the flexibility we need. In January we obtained almost $400 million in cash and we relieved a merely $250 million in debt from the sales of our interest in International Plaza and Arizona Mills as well as the land at Oyster Bay.

This effectively lowered our debt to market capitalization ratio on a pro forma yearend basis by over 400 basis points to just over 34%. Last quarter we closed the construction loan for University Town Center as expected. We obtained 70% loan-to-cost on the facility. The $225 million has a three year initial term with four one year extension options. This spread is 170 basis points over LIBOR and maybe reduced to 160 of (un-meeting) certain conditions. This was the first construction loan for a regional shopping center since the recession began.

We will now focus our efforts on obtaining construction financing for our other development projects. And we expect to obtain construction financing for the Mall of San Juan late in the first quarter or early in the second quarter. Terms will be at least 60% loan-to-cost at LIBOR plus 200. Next on the timeline is our project at Hawaii International Market Place. But remember we’re still roughly two years away from opening this center and the project is about a year behind the mall of San Juan. As we mentioned in our release during the quarter we repurchased about 475,000 shares at an average price of $65.65.

Total cost was $31 million. We’ve moderated our repurchases while we continue to execute the International Plaza and Arizona Mills transactions and because of the instability in the market. Since the program was announced in August we purchased 787,000 shares and at December 31 we had $148 million available under the current share repurchase authorization. We will continue to monitor both pricing and liquidity going forward. As I’ve mentioned we remain absolutely committed to maintaining a strong balance sheet and we believe it is a significant competitive advantage.

Now guidance, as we said in the release for the full year 2014 we’re introducing FFO guidance in the range of $3.72 to $3.82 per share. This range reflects the disposition of Arizona Mills and the 49.9% of International Plaza which were sold in January. We estimate the full year impact of these two dispositions to be about $0.12 in 2014. For the year we expect comp center NOI excluding lease cancellation income to be up about 3%.

Average rent per square foot is expected to be up about 4%. However other revenue line item including net recoveries, percentage rent and other income are on a combined basis budgeted to be relatively flat. Year-end occupancy is expected to be about even with some quarterly fluctuations. Net third-party revenues from management leasing and development services is expected to be $7 million to $8 million down from $10.8 million in 2013. This includes services performed in both the U.S. and Asia.

We’re estimating lease cancellation income to be approximately $4 million at our share. For 2014 total predevelopment expense including both the U.S. and Asia is expected to be $6 million to $7 million down from $10.6 million in 2013. Our quarterly G&A run rate is expected to continue to average about $12 million to $13 million throughout 2014. And then lastly I’d like to point out that International Plaza is accounted for as a unconsolidated joint venture in 2014.

And with that I’ll turn the call back to Bobby.

Robert Taubman

Thanks, Lisa. As we said in the release we delivered solid results in the fourth quarter concluding a strong year for our company. Our sales are now $721 per square foot. We made significant progress on the execution of our development projects. We completed over $3 billion of capital transactions, recycling capital for growth and maintaining our strong balance sheet. And we achieved FFO growth of over 9% while absorbing the negative $0.65 impact of our March preferred offering.

Obviously we’re disappointed by our relative share price performance in 2013. We initiated a repurchase program because we believe the share price is significantly below our net asset value. We’ve great assets and the development pipeline we believe will create significant shareholder value. We also believe our share price will outperform over time.

Now we’d like to open the call to questions. As Barbara said please limit your questions to two. Liana, are you there?

Question-and-Answer Session

Operator

Yes, I am. (Operator Instructions) Your first question comes from the line of Andrew Schaffer from Sandler O’Neill. Your line is open.

Andrew Schaffer – Sandler O’Neill

Thank you. I was wondering if you could comment on the components of the $0.12 of dilution from the asset sales. And if this is a net number that includes the use of proceeds to pay down Stony Point and the dividends received from carrying SPG and any other forgiveness related to the Oyster Bay sale?

Lisa Payne

It is all inclusive. At the present time the dilution does assume our use of proceeds which was to pay-down debt. We did however have not as much – we’re basically in a cash position for the first quarter where we’re investing some of the cash because we didn’t have – we fully paid off our line of credit. We do expect to invest that cash throughout the first quarter and second quarter, but all those assumptions are in the $0.12 dilution.

Andrew Schaffer – Sandler O’Neill

Okay. Does your full year 2014 guidance include any land sale gains or stock buybacks?

Lisa Payne

We aren’t going to comment on stock buybacks really and we do have a range that we’ve given because at this point we can’t budget how much we’re going to buyback given we don’t know the share price and we’re going to be very disciplined in the purchase of our stock. In terms of land sales we’re not expecting at this time any land sales.

Andrew Schaffer – Sandler O’Neill

Okay, thanks. That’s it from me.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Christy McElroy from Citi. Your line is open.

Christy McElroy – Citi

Hi, good morning. Lisa just some follow-ups on the $0.12 of dilution question. Just – and then looking at your sources and uses of proceeds just want to understand the emphasis a little bit better. What is your assumption for total NOI loss? We’re getting to about $36 million I just wanted to see if we’re about right. And in the rates on the debt, is there any difference between the cash and GAAP impact to FFO? And then, lastly on the cash you talked about the cash embedded in that what sort of your return projection, I know it’s only going to be first quarter, second quarter, but what is your sort of return on cash?

Lisa Payne

Well we’re not going to disclose NOI in terms of the transaction that we’re not going to disclose asset-by-asset or imply a cap rate there. But in terms of investment I mean we’re investing in a – because we’re going to use the cash, the investments are in very short term. And as you know short term rates are extraordinarily low. So we’re not really getting a lot of return on the cash that is being invested and I can’t remember your third question.

Christy McElroy – Citi

The rates on the debt, is there any difference between the cash or debt impact to FFO?

Lisa Payne

I think Arizona Mills was about market that we relieved although I can – I mean you can go back to the supplemental.

Robert Taubman

I think Arizona Mills is 5%.

Lisa Payne

I mean it’s a little 5%, you’re right, sorry.

Robert Taubman

It’s just under 6%.

Lisa Payne

Right.

Robert Taubman

There was a mark-to-market valuation in that negotiation but it’s all part of the combination of the deal that we made that we’re not disclosing.

Lisa Payne

But most of our use of proceeds of our net use of proceeds was to pay down our line of credit.

Christy McElroy – Citi

Okay. What would your sales per square foot have been on a trailing 12-month basis and the growth rate including Arizona Mills? I’m just thinking about the impact that the IP sale would have if any. Your sales per square foot, do you calculate that on a pro rata basis or a gross basis?

Lisa Payne

When you say – oh in terms of weather it’s on our ownership basis..

Christy McElroy – Citi

Exactly.

Lisa Payne

Our sales per square foot are calculated on 100%.

Christy McElroy – Citi

100% and then excluding Arizona or including I’m sorry including Arizona Mills, what would that have been?

Lisa Payne

We’re not – we actually haven’t disclosed that and I think the growth is basically roughly the same in terms of the growth rate.

Christy McElroy – Citi

Okay. Just one follow-up on my prior question if I could. Was there any – what was the property tax carry on the Oyster Bay land?

Lisa Payne

I’m sorry the property tax carry..

Robert Taubman

Yes.

Christy McElroy – Citi

Do you have any carry on the Oyster Bay land?

Robert Taubman

Well I mean it was carried over taxes, insurance and things like that, yes, but that’s all included in the guidance that we’ve given you for 2014.

Lisa Payne

Yes, let me just say we – the predevelopment costs that we have included as our assumption for 2014 does include a reduction because that’s where we expensed everything through predevelopment cost. So the guidance we’ve given you of $6 million to $7 million obviously assumes we don’t have any cost with regard to Oyster Bay and those costs we did have in 2013.

Christy McElroy – Citi

Okay. Thank you.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Todd Thomas, KeyBanc Capital. Your line is open.

Todd Thomas – KeyBanc

Hi, thanks. Good morning. Just looking at the redevelopment pipeline, I know some of these have been in consideration for quite some time. But I was just wondering how comfortable you are with some of the additional leasing that’s required at say Cherry Creek for example. Is a portion of that leasing committed? And then is part of a broader initiative with regard to redevelopment at your existing centers, should we expect to see more projects added to the pipeline?

Robert Taubman

Well I think I said in my comments that we have literally either built, expanded or renovated over half our portfolio since 2008. So the idea that we haven’t been redeveloping is doesn’t make sense to us because – but we just haven’t packaged it quite the same way that I think all of you would like. So we’re doing that now so you can see that we’re focused on our core and our redevelopment is a continuous effort. So in the case of Cherry Creek there is 38,000 square feet and yes we have pre-leased a bunch of this space. We have a number of tenants that want to get in that shopping center for sometime and having the additional supply is going to help us bring those brands in. So but we are working on other projects that we haven’t disclosed in this, it’s just – are not ready to begin construction or are not as far along as we would like. And we just – we haven’t packaged in a way that I think people would like to see and that’s what we’re going to do going forward.

Todd Thomas – KeyBanc

Okay. And then second question in terms of your forecast for 2014, I was wondering what you’re looking for in terms of comp sales growth. And then your comments about luxury retailers doing well and jewelry and some other specialty categories. I was just curious though the trouble that you identified today with the teen retailers and in the apparel space. Does that sort of cause you to rethink your merchandising strategies at all or do you just think that it will be a short-term cycle that the retailers have to work through here?

Robert Taubman

Well first of all I think that you’re going to see moderate sales growth. We did not put out a specific number. But I think moderate sales growth not much different than what our industry is seeing right now. It will be in that range. I mean second question which is – with respect to the 2013 and more moderate retailers, you have cycles, things go up and down all the time and lot of it is very fashion driven. And so, if products hit consumers in the right way, and their parents feel little more buoyant than they’ve been. I think you’ll see that fashion continue to be strong or will be strong again. But it just a lot of teen retailers right now, they’re being hurt. And that’s reflected I think in the industry sales right now. So, having said that, we did grow and as we mentioned the 1.8% was really in the high 2s when you exclude the impact the negative impact of Apple last year. So, we were right in the range that everybody else was in for this year.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Ross Nussbaum from UBS. Your line is open.

Robert Taubman

Ross?. We have pause or shall we move on?

Ross Nussbaum – UBS

Can you guys hear me?

Robert Taubman

Yes, now we can. Go ahead.

Ross Nussbaum – UBS

Alright, thanks. Can you comment a little more on the $450 million of gains that you expect to record in the first quarter? Are you suggesting those are taxable gains that are going to have some implications with respect to either a special dividend or you’re thinking 1031?

Lisa Payne

Yes. This is for book purposes and there was no step up in IP when we purchased it in late 2012 because at that point, it was a consolidated JV and then the accounting treatment of that is not to step up your book basis. So, the gain that we just took because now it’s becoming an unconsolidated JV the way GAAP works, is that’s going to be a bookings from a tax perspective, we did have a loss on the sale of the Oyster Bay land because for tax purposes, you do not take a tax loss until you actually discard or abandon the property. So, when we took our large book loss many years ago, we were not able to take a tax loss. Therefore, the tax impact on cash is actually a very tax efficient and we will not need to do at special distribution.

Ross Nussbaum – UBS

Okay. That’s helpful.

Lisa Payne

Sorry for that long explanation but it’s…

Ross Nussbaum – UBS

No, it’s helpful, that was a little confusing. Okay.

Lisa Payne

So, it’s very different book than it is tax. And so the gain that we’re going to report is simply a book gain and has no implications to cash or to any tax results.

Ross Nussbaum – UBS

Okay. And along those lines, with respect to your FFO guidance, are there any – it sounds like the answer is going to be no but there are no book land gains from Oyster Bay in your FFO guidance?

Lisa Payne

Correct.

Ross Nussbaum – UBS

Okay, just wanted be clear on that. Okay. The second question I had was, with respect to the Miami project, you guys already had quite a bit of activity on your plate. I’m just thinking how did you think about the risk/reward of adding that to your pipeline, giving everything that you’ve got going on globally right now?

Robert Taubman

So, obviously we’re delighted to have the Forbes family investing with us dollar for dollar in pari passu. We’ve had two successful efforts with them before at the Mall at Millenia, in Orlando and Waterside Shops in Naples. This is a really great location, it’s really – we’re partnering with Macy’s, when I say partnering we’re – Macy’s and Bloomingdale’s have announced with us as anchors. They are by far the most important department store brands in the market. We are delighted to have them in the center. We’re also anchoring us with this very large Marriott that has been announced. It’s almost 1,900 rooms, that ties in directly to the high-speed rail that’s Orlando up to – I’m sorry that’s Miami to Orlando was the two other stops.

The transportation system downtown, the interstate, everything ties into this project. So, we think that there is tremendous demand into some of the highest sales productivity shopping centers. Dolphin Mall, that we talk about all the time, Belle Harbor Shops you hear about, Dadeland, Aventura. These are all incredible assets and it’s because of the lack of supply in the market. And what’s happening is that lack of supply and the growth in downtown Miami is all being answered in essence by the design district that Craig Robbins is leading. And then the Swire property, which is largely residential property but they have a significant supply of retail as well that will be there. So, these three projects together are essentially satisfying the demand that’s been created right now in that community.

Ross Nussbaum – UBS

And is this straight up JV or are there any fees going over to Forbes?

Robert Taubman

Well, I mean Forbes will get paid just like we would if we were running the project as Forbes will get paid for doing their work. But there is no promotes, if that’s your question, it’s a straight up project on an equity basis. And as we said we depending on the landowner’s decision, we will we will each own pari passu a minimum of a third as much as 50%.

Lisa Payne

And I would mention that obviously any fees that Forbes get was calculated as we looked at our returns and report return – and when we report returns it will be included in the returns we report.

Ross Nussbaum – UBS

Perfect. Thank you.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Dan Oppenheim from Credit Suisse. Your line is open.

Dan Oppenheim – Credit Suisse

Thanks very much. I was wondering if you can talk a little bit more about the comments for 2014 in terms of occupancy for the year. There was some fluctuation, with leasing up 30 basis points year-over-year at year end. When will some of the leases come online towards occupancy? Should we expect to see occupancy down year-over-year at the start of the year? How should we think about that overall?

Lisa Payne

Well, we do not – we feel like we give very good and detailed guidance frankly more than we think many of our peers do. But, we are not in a position to give quarterly occupancy guidance. And that’s also because it’s very difficult for us to predict that specifically with our portfolio in terms of when stores are going to open. So, what we’re prepared to say is we expect occupancy to be even. We do think there will be some variations over the year but it’s very difficult to say exactly what those are going to be today.

Dan Oppenheim – Credit Suisse

Okay, thanks. And then you commented on Sun Valley and Concord, talking about some restaurants in the lower level going in there. Wondering about that, want to be clear. It doesn’t fit as much with some of the other malls in terms of the very high end there. As you think about doing that versus just selling that and concentrating on the high-end malls, how do you think about that in terms of use of capital?

Robert Taubman

Well, Sun Valley is a great asset sitting in a very dense market that is a moderate center as you pointed out it’s not high-end, very moderate center but it does a lot of business. And that market is next impossible to get anything zoned in. The entitlement process is very difficult. And it really is an irreplaceable asset. And we see that as we’ve had – there’d been a couple of boxes, smaller boxes there, part of our property but not actually adjacent to the center, but they’re freestanding, that have come up. When people are looking for a box of any significant size at all it’s – there is really a scramble on the demand side for it. So, we’re very happy with the Sun Valley and we think that the food court that we’re going to be creating on a lower level there will be very successful.

Dan Oppenheim – Credit Suisse

Thank you.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Daniel Busch, Green Street Advisors. Your line is open.

Daniel Busch – Green Street Advisors

Thank you. Just with regards to the US developments, I guess given the discussion about e-commerce and the change in consumer needs in the malls, are you seeing, or is there a change in the initial tenant mix that you’re targeting in your new developments versus what you’ve done in your developments in the past? Can you talk a little bit about your targeted tenant mix and the category offerings?

Robert Taubman

Well, each center is slightly different, whether – and I’ll talk U.S. but I could talk China as well. But, at the end of the day successful retailers is going to be on each channel. And one of their key branding and distribution platforms are going to be brick-and-mortar. So they’re going to do everything. They’re going to be online, they’re going to be in catalog, they’re going to do direct mail. They are going to have brick and mortar. And we feel we are extremely well positioned with our dominant assets in nearly all the markets we operate in to be the platform for these retailers that are omni-channel. And as technology is improving the customer experience at every level, whether it’s the front of the house, logistics chain, whether it’s improving customer knowledge, social media all this stuff is moving in the direction in our view of dominant centers. And dominant centers are not just about retail, they are also about place to be, they are also about food, entertainment, better restaurants and that’s why you are seeing restaurants like Cheesecake and Capital Grille and Seasons 52. But the restaurants I have mentioned in Sarasota is an example, wanting to be there. So you know it’s a good cycle. They want to be there. The customer want to be there. So in our view brick and mortar but highly productive brick and mortar is we are with that. And I think you we are going to see the evolution of that more and more as retailers and shoppers more and more find online because it really is a very good marriage of the two distribution channels.

Daniel Busch – Green Street Advisors

Just going on the restaurant, would the restaurants and entertainment, how does the rent or the rent growth potential for those compared to your more luxury apparel tenants.

Robert Taubman

Well, I mean obviously you can make a general statement that on the high end luxury when there is successful are the highest productivity tenant, but when you have a place like Dolphin Mall, we think Sarasota, we think San Juan will have very productive restaurant space. At Dolphin Mall we are adding 32,000 square feet of restaurant space because the restaurant activity the productivity is nearly as high as the overall in the center. And it brings tremendous traffic. I mean that the people counts are incredible. So by adding the 32,000 feet we don’t think it’s going to take away at all from the existing restaurants we have. In fact, we think it’s going to create synergy and actually create more demand because it’s even more the place to be. And we are actually creating a secondary valet area because there is so much demand right now with the existing restaurants at Dolphin for the valet. We will have a valet at Sarasota. We will have a valet at San Juan. So we are building into our centers the idea of where we think – where our vision of retail and brick and mortar is going to be.

Daniel Busch – Green Street Advisors

Thank you.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Mike Mueller from JP Morgan. Your line is open.

Mike Mueller – JP Morgan

Hi, I guess Lisa just thinking about our guidance, I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about CapEx and if we are excluding the five big redevelopments, I mean what should we be thinking about this year for tenant allowance spend, the CapEx, the normal CapEx just for the operating assets aside from the big projects?

Lisa Payne

I would say no change and then we have it in our K, I don’t have the numbers right on top with me. But I would say knowing what we have been doing this year it’s been fairly consistent I don’t see any big changes on allowances or leasing costs. Generally the big swing is to the extent we decide to do a major restaurant program at a center. They obviously take more allowance. Also luxury tenants, we do tend to get great rents, but we do spend more dollars on allowances with luxury tenants. But I don’t think there is anything unusual this year on any one of those categories. So I would expect it to be pretty consistent to prior year – to 2013.

Mike Mueller – JP Morgan

Okay and going forward when – I guess the TI dollars were spent on the redevelopments from a geography standpoint, is that going to show up in the tenant allowance line in the sub or does that get filtered into the I guess the projects with incremental GOA or anchor replacement line?

Lisa Payne

Yes, it’s very dependent I would say on – if we are actually doing an expansion and it’s a capitalizable expansion then we actually capitalize it to that project. If it’s in the operating part of the center, we therefore would be part of the tenant allowance dollars in the – what I call in our core. So I do think it depends, but obviously even if it’s in the core those tenant allowances still do get capitalized and amortize over the life of the lease. So either way it’s capitalized, it’s just capitalized in different areas of – yes still going into the asset but maybe different sides.

Mike Mueller – JP Morgan

Okay, that was it. Thanks.

Lisa Payne

Thank you.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Craig Schmidt from Bank of America. Your line is open.

Craig Schmidt – Bank of America

Thank you. This is regarding Miami Worldcenter, I wondered does the project have all the necessary zoning approvals to get built or are there some approvals to work through?

Robert Taubman

Well, it’s got everything all the entitlements and the actual entitlements of the full site, the 25 acres site are incredible. As we said they are all the various uses there including the hotel, convention space, residential, office, etcetera. But every – all the entitlements that we need are in place.

Craig Schmidt – Bank of America

Okay and then just what is if you can maybe spend the time on maybe some tenant mix differences or are you going after some of the same tenants that will be in Brickell design and I guess I hear Bell Harbor is also expanding?

Robert Taubman

The – I don’t want to comment on Bill Harbor’s expansion, which has been in the works for a long time and there is – I think there has been written on it. The design district is going to be high end luxury. There is – and they have talked about it widely. They have put a lot of – signed a lot of stores, that’s the luxury stopping point. We are not going to try to compete. We think we are going to be very synergistic with them and be very comfortable. They are at the high end. We are going to be up (Technical Difficulty) announced anchors yet but we know have been working on anchors. Well, likely try to be in a similar space that we are. But as I have said many times there is very significant demand in this market for very significantly more supply. And the Swire property is expected to be about 600,000 feet, but again you would have to talk to them directly.

Craig Schmidt – Bank of America

Okay, thanks.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Steve Sakwa from the ISI Group. Your line is open.

Steve Sakwa – ISI Group

Thanks. I guess my first question is for Lisa, it’s just got a couple of cleanup items or clarifications on the guidance. I guess number one is the lack of now predevelopment spend that you were not capitalizing at Oyster Bay part of that kind of $0.12 dilution figure that you quoted earlier?

Lisa Payne

No that is separate of the $0.12 specifically it’s with regard to selling IP and Arizona. The savings on the Oyster Bay predevelopment expense is part of not all but part of why we reduced our predevelopment expense down to the $6 million to $7 million level.

Steve Sakwa – ISI Group

Okay and then as it relates to – I guess I was a little confused on the share buyback as it relates to guidance I couldn’t remember if you said you wouldn’t tell us if it was in your numbers or if you have put them here but just weren’t disclosing kind of what the figure was?

Lisa Payne

Well, I guess I would we have a range and in that range we have a lot of I guess I would call them risks and opportunities. And one of the risks and opportunities is how much are we going to spend in stock buybacks because we don’t know where our stock is going to be and whether we feel it’s compelling enough to buyback. So we do have that range in some parts of that range we obviously have stock buyback. We have to assume what price etcetera. So we aren’t really disclosing but the range covers the outcomes we would expect in terms of stock buyback.

Steve Sakwa – ISI Group

Okay and then just last little question, is there a change in the cap interest calculation as it relates to guidance, so is cap interest expected to be higher in ‘14 versus ‘13 and if so by how much?

Lisa Payne

Yes, we – capitalized interest the methodology is not changing. But as we spend more money on each of these predevelopments it does impact capitalized interest and capitalized interest in 2014 will be higher.

Steve Sakwa – ISI Group

Okay, but you are not quantifying?

Lisa Payne

No we aren’t – we gave a lot of line item guidance. Again the pace of spending is dependent on that capitalized interest and therefore it’s within that range – in our range.

Steve Sakwa – ISI Group

Okay and then I guess just a question for Bobby is related to Asia I mean clearly that’s been the real focal point for investors and a concern, kind of where do you stand today in terms of looking at future projects. I know you said you kind of put a 12-month moratorium perhaps on announcing new deals there and were probably six months, seven months into that 12-months period. So I am just wondering as you are making progress on the first couple where do you stand on kind of projects three, four and five?

Robert Taubman

Number one we are focused on the execution of the three that we have underway right now. Number two, I want to remind everybody that it’s less than the third or about a third of the total capital spending in our development pipeline, our share. Number three, we are working on other projects, but we do not expect to begin another project in 2014. So I would be very surprised if we did. So I think again we are focused on execution as we see the results of our efforts this year we will be encouraged to then think about other things.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Ben Yang from Evercore. Your line is open.

Ben Yang – Evercore

Hi, maybe you are sitting with the China team, Bobby I think you mentioned in your opening remarks that preleasing at your two China projects is going well which is really nice to hear, but I believe you have stated in the past that most retailers on leases (ph) closer to opening, I am just curious if you can maybe disclose some of your preleasing stats and maybe even identify which key retailers are signed up to your projects, singed lease is not necessarily letters of intent or interest?

Robert Taubman

Yes, Ben I don’t want to – I am not going to give any specific information about names or percentage. But as an example, in both Xi’an and Zhengzhou we did an RFT for a movie theater in both sites for a large scale movie theater. In both locations we had over 10 theater guys line up to deal with us. And we went through a process where we narrowed – we basically auctioned it and we obviously were interested in the best operators with best balance sheet and stuff like that but we basically have auctioned these locations off. And we have two excellent operators at very good pricing right at our pro forma.

The restaurants, restaurants are huge piece of the allocation space as much as 30%, the most large projects over there culturally eating out is very important there. In the United States it could be 10% to 12% typically, in some locations it could be more, in some less. But it’s three times kind of level of food. We have had outstanding interest in food. So we are pleased that as I have said we are pleased where we are in our leasing program. We appreciate that until we announce concrete data that people aren’t as comfortable. And – but we are in very competitive marketplaces just like they are here and we have learned to wait as long as possible to make announcements on these projects to be very judicious in those announcements. Thank you, Ben.

Ben Yang – Evercore

Got it and maybe just final question, you did mention working on other projects in China and I appreciate that you are going to be patient moving ahead. But I think your partner had publicly stated that they had 10 China projects that they like to do with you. I mean what are your thoughts on that I mean you have an appetite you think longer term if these things are successful that you could do at least 10 more in the next decade or so with this partner?

Robert Taubman

We are delighted with our partner. In our view the best strategic partner we could have in China. We are also delighted with Shinsegae our strategic partner in South Korea again the best partner we could have in South Korea. The Shinsegae Chairman had said publicly they would like to do more with us. Wangfujing has also talked about doing more with us and we will be very judicious and prudent as we execute on the three projects in front of us, what more we take on play. But we clearly would like to do more over time. But we need to get some ground on our feet first.

Ben Yang – Evercore

Got it, thank you.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Steve Menaker (ph) from Oppenheimer. Your line is open.

Unidentified Analyst

Thank you. Just wanted to get a sense of your leasing prospects in the early stages, had the tenure of their conversations change as – due to the weak retail season?

Robert Taubman

I think we have talked about sales already and I think that we don’t view it as weak. It’s moderate sales growth, but it’s clearly ahead of inflation or it’s certainly at inflation depending on how you want to account it. We have talked for years about 2% to 3% sales growth mirroring 2% to 3% NOI growth, mirroring the sales growth. So I mean you can call it weak but is it weaker than it was for three years when it was double digit sales growth. But the growth in sales since the recession in our industry has actually been very strong especially against very high productivity assets. And we do not sense weakness as very few shopping centers being built in the United States. And there has been a lot of record of that written. And when you have good assets something like Sarasota you do get demand San Juan, Hawaii or in China get demand. You can hear it and our peers in the industry whether it’s Simon, Macerich, General Growth all of them have good demand for their space. And we feel we have good demand in our core – in our core new assets.

Unidentified Analyst

Thank you.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Omotayo Okusanya from Jefferies. Your line is open.

Omotayo Okusanya – Jefferies

Yes, good afternoon everyone. I just wanted to follow-up on Steve’s line of questioning with Lisa around guidance I think some of the moving parts you discussed there were helpful to understand guidance, but I am still curious if there is anything else in ‘14 guidance that makes it very different from ‘13 simply because again when I do the $0.12 adjustments for the dilutive effects of your asset sales, it still seems like there should be something big in ‘14 what’s the fundamental, is that salary gains or there is a one-time item in there also to get to your guidance number?

Lisa Payne

Well, it’s hard for me I don’t your model. Again I think we have given very good line item disclosure in terms of our range. One other things – challenges I think people have is interest expense for us we do not give guidance – we are not going to give you a number for interest expense, but obviously there is a lot of refinancings that have happened. We have capitalized interest, so that grows as we develop and are spending money on the development projects. But other than that I feel like we have given very accurate and what we believe our expectations obviously what happens will be what happens, but the range we provided is I think as detailed as we can get.

Omotayo Okusanya – Jefferies

So you think some of the moving parts are not necessarily NOI related but really more bottom-line interest expense, some of those other items?

Lisa Payne

Yes, well I want to be very clear, I don’t know what’s in your model. So I know we are very comfortable with our range. We have given a fair amount of detail on a lot of the items like third party we gave you, lease cancelation, net recoveries. We have given a lot of NOI guidance. So probably the only thing that I see that we haven’t and we don’t ever I don’t know anybody who gives interest expense we talk about what we are expecting in terms of financings etcetera, but perhaps you should look there if something is not adding up.

Omotayo Okusanya – Jefferies

Okay, great. I will probably end you following up with you offline. Thanks Lisa.

Lisa Payne

Okay, you are welcome.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Christy McElroy from Citi. Your line is open.

Michael Bilerman – Citi

Yes actually Michael Bilerman. Actually Lisa none of your mall peers give interest expense, but guys like EQR, BXP will sort of break it up, so some do, but that’s not the point of my question, but I think I just let you know that. In terms of just I am thinking more sources and uses in your comment about wanting to maintain a really strong balance sheet. When you think about the totality of the committed development and throwing Miami in there some reasonable amount and all the redevelopment spend, call it $1.5 billion to $1.6 billion left to fund. You have about $140 million of cash starting in the year after you paying off all the debt and all the transactions you did, completely untapped lines of credits of $1.2 billion let along the ability to upsize the term loan by another $125 million. I think you talked about San Juan and Sarasota getting 60% financing that probably adds another $300 million at your share and then you probably can still finance Hawaii and some of the Asian stuff. I guess, should we be thinking about that spend just being completely debt funded and that’s the way you sort of want to communicate to the street in terms of we don’t need any other sorts of equity capital, we don’t need to sell any other assets. We have complete capacity to do it now and with the added construction loans we are going to get we will be more than well capitalized to do it?

Lisa Payne

I think you need to go on the roadshow for me Michael. That sounded pretty good. But I think the answer is I guess the only thing I know when you say debt funded. From here on out, yes, but we have raised preferred. When you look at – we look at our capital needs over much more extended period of time than one year. And we manage four cycles we feel that we are in a peak development cycle right now. But remember as these assets come on and are successful, we as you have seen are fairly able to recycle and pullout even any capital we have and still have a very conservative balance sheet. So with what we just did with the asset sale and IP and then on top of it, which frankly nobody expected was the Arizona and Oyster Bay we believe versus where we told you we will be at the Investor Day that we have hit the ball out of the park. And capital, I think no one should feel as an issue today for Taubman. And whether or not we decided to use some more money now to buy stock back or maybe there is – we find acquisition opportunities. We actually think we now have a little drypowder, not a lot because we want to keep our balance sheet and we are in this cycle, but yes we feel very, very comfortable with where we are and we don’t feel we need to do a capital market transaction to fund anything that’s in our pipeline including Miami Worldcenter today.

Michael Bilerman – Citi

And then do you think about because IP clearly was when you opportunistically bought in the stake and I think you were more patient in terms of going back out and selling it down. Do the next – there is still that disconnect in your stock and we can debate on various reasons why it may exist, but are you tempted all on some of your other centers to potentially take out an interest to market and raise more capital for perhaps say more meaningful tender for the stock or something else to really start to narrow that gap other than another 150 million stock buyback but take one of your high quality asset and sell a 50% stake in?

Lisa Payne

Well, let’s say that, obviously with the Arizona mills and Oyster Bay we are very willing when we see attractive alternatives to monetize assets that are not strategic. But we also feel like we have great assets. We are very comfortable with our assets. So I am not here saying we would never do something like that because we have shown we are willing to do it. On the other hand we are not going to do it today because we need to. It would have to be an opportunistic situation. We do think we are trading below NAV. It’s very frustrating to us. But again we are long-term here, we believe we are going to have great value in our development pipeline and we are also quite patient. And Bob, you may want to add to my comment?

Robert Taubman

No. I think, first of all Mike I am now looking forward to seeing you soon. And secondly I would say that Lisa said it well, we did say in my prepared comments, we talked about recycling assets and recycling capital. And we are the only company in our industry that’s growing like we have and done what we did and readily came public with 19 assets, we have 24 today. So I think that, yes, we would recycle more assets. What we do with the capital will be important in the thought process. But I think strategically a lot of people are moving in the direction of high productivity and those are the assets that they want to run and retailers and shoppers like to be in these dominant assets.

Michael Bilerman – Citi

Okay. If I can just ask one more just from a strategic perspective Bobby, you think about the moves that you have made in terms of calling the day on Oyster Bay, selling the interest in IP, putting in the redevelopments into supplemental buying back stock, selling off Arizona Mills, doing all these things Asia is clearly still a big piece, it’s come up a couple of times on the call. If you think about the spectrum of alternatives that you have in front of you and I recognize you got to execute on the transactions you have. But just at that sort of corporate level there is a status quo do the three deals add more, don’t start anything in 2014, but that’s indicated now for another deal in ‘14. And so how large part of your investment, bring in a partner at the top co level or make a decision just to hive it off and exit it. So someone else maybe the family takes it over or do something it’s not in the public company anymore. But if you think about that spectrum of alternatives where is your mindset because you made a lot of progress on strategic transactions over the last few months to address this discount, just to me is the biggest one that’s still remaining, where is your mindset on that spectrum?

Robert Taubman

Well, as we have talked a lot including at our Investor Day and our development is what has created this company and is very much part of our DNA. There is limited growth in the United States for new supply. We are finding wherever we can to participate. We think that in the long-term China, Asia represents an opportunity for us to continue to grow this company. I remind you as I reminded earlier in the call that of the roughly $1.7 billion, $1.8 billion of total pipeline, that’s our share, about $550 million today is in Asia. So it’s about one-third. We think for a company of our size given the opportunity that it represents over the long-term that this is a very good and prudent capital allocation. We are hopeful it’s going to do well. We are going to really focus on execution and we have got a great team over there lead by Rene, who many of you have met and we have now almost 100 people, 90 some odd people there, in the markets of South Korea, China and Hong Kong. And we build the platform that we felt very proud of and we will see what happens. And but everybody has got to execute. And if we can’t execute we shouldn’t be there, but if we can execute we think we have opened up an opportunity for this company to continue to grow for many, many years. And augment what else we can do here. And it’s not something you can come back to later on. The opportunity is now or we are not going to participate. So we think it’s a prudent decision. I hear your comments, I have heard similar comments from others and I think that – and I think we will see how it goes in 2014 and 2015.

Michael Bilerman – Citi

Well, thanks for the time. And I look forward to seeing you always.

Robert Taubman

Thank you. Thank you Michael. Do we have other comments, Liana questions?

Operator

There are no further questions at this time. I will turn the call back over to you sir.

Robert Taubman

Well, thank you very much. And we look forward to a good year in 2014 with all of you. Thank you. Bye-bye. Thank you, Liana.

Operator

This concludes today’s conference call. You may now disconnect.

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