Microsoft Corporation (NASDAQ:MSFT)
Morgan Stanley Technology, Media & Telecom Conference
March 03, 2014 09:00 AM ET
Qi Lu - EVP, Applications and Services
Keith Weiss - Morgan Stanley
240 corporate presenters representing almost $4 trillion of market cap, well over a 100 CEOs presenting and a great line up of keynote speakers including Joe Tsai from Alibaba, Meg Whitman from HP, Jeff Weiner from LinkedIn. This his first keynote presentation by the way since LinkedIn's IPO three years ago plus Marc Benioff, Bill Campbell, Will McAdam, James Murdoch and Randall Stephenson.
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So, thanks again for joining us and now we'll turn the stage over to Scott Wise who will be conducting the fireside chat with Qi Lu of Microsoft. Thank you.
Thank you Phil. [indiscernible]. So very pleased to kick-off the TMP conference with Qi Lu, EVP of Applications and Services business or Dr. Qi Lu from Microsoft. Before we get started, I am just going to read a brief, so both I and Microsoft may make forward-looking statements in this presentation. You should refer to Microsoft’s SEC filings for risk factors relating to their business and disclosures at the end of our research found on our website for the appropriate Morgan Stanley disclosures. So with that out of the way, thank you very much for joining us.
And I thought good place to start will be at a high level talking about the broader devices of services and strategy. When you guys think about that strategy, there has been a one big piece of that come in to place for the past couple of years. Does Microsoft have all the pieces in place today to execute on that strategy?
Thank you very much Qi, this is very important question and to get started I would like to provide you the order influence in the context of how we think about Microsoft and how we think about Board. First is, we view our industry is at the formative, there is a few massive hurdle ways that are driving and shaping our industry a very, very important matter. So, there's really four things, one is computing moving to cloud and this is once in several decades paradigm shift for mainframe to client servers to the cloud. That’s a massive change, creating a lot of opportunity for different type of products and business model, that’s number one.
Second is edge computing, moving substantially beyond PC with the desktop platform, the bulk of the modern devices. So, there is social communications, it used to be in the last couple of decades the digital connection between human beings typically is email but now these digital connections goes way beyond the emails with rich content and also the energy of those digital connections are often mobile devices, that’s the third one.
Fourth one is equally important which is big data and machine learning because the cost of such a digital observation and the cost of processing those digital data becomes cheaper and cheaper. And we all know having business innovation, product innovation is about discovering new patterns and building new product administers starting to adding this double but turns out if you use big data and machine learning and if follow machinery [indiscernible] in pattern that are stable, a human being can tell a difference, our machine also. And that creates just a massive opportunity because you can systematically using technology to distant patterns and use those to drive innovations and [indiscernible].
So, those are the major tidal waves, that are still in their early stage of adoption [KPI] industry financial model can be innovative, well here in San Francisco, before the large earthquake have leveled [indiscernible] the city, after the big wave the city is entirely different, our industry is in that phase. So, we view that at the conference, and look at the Microsoft, our founding VNAs, go back to the days of Bills, Paul Allen, Steve and we will do more company, meaning that we produce products and services, enable individuals, businesses organizations to more accomplish. It doesn’t matter whichever human undertaking you set out to do, the Microsoft product and services enable you to accomplish for.
If you take that lens to say we’re fundamentally being a do more category. In the old last three decades, computing can deliver to a client server to every home to every desk which is Microsoft’s early vision, which is a great vision, deliver PC to every desk, every home which changed the world. And how computer can deliver everywhere. It is a connection between human beings for way beyond emails, and also the model of computing is moving away and beyond client server into cloud, big data. We get to ride these major tidal waves. It’s a do more category and potentially new level.
So at the core to answer your question now, do we have what it takes, yes, totally because if you look at our core businesses which is enable people [indiscernible] accomplish for, now we have the opportunity to ride these tidal waves. To double our core, renew it and elevate it, so that we can enable not only individuals to do things in office but on the go at homes.
So our opportunity as a company is substantially bigger. Now you look at the order assets we have, not just the technological assets, the human capital assets, but our [indiscernible] assets, especially the Microsoft brand, our relationship with enterprise customers, our relationship with professionals.
We think all these in combinations, the answer is emphatically yes, because we have what it takes to take our company from where we’re today, renew it and elevate it and we truly have strong beliefs, the second phase of Microsoft is going to be substantially stronger one, with larger footprint, have the business impacts and economic impacts and all the impact for our customers.
Keith Weiss - Morgan Stanley
Investors about the price strategy, I think investors have a relatively optimistic view on the services side. They like much cost position with the enterprise, because they are very optimistic upon, on what you guys have done across [indiscernible] and what you have done with [indiscernible] I think you guys are a little more down forward have a little more pessimistic is mobile devices side.
So the question for you, why does Microsoft have these mobile devices? Why not just leave mobile devices to Apple to Google with Android. You could just focus on the parts that you guys are more optimistic at the enterprise interest of time, cloud services and office use.
Yeah that’s a good question Keith. First of all I think it's important for me to restate our company’s strategy going forward and in particular Satya Nadella, new CEO made it very clear Microsoft is described in cloud first and mobile first, strategically they are very important for us. There is a couple of things to your question I want to emphasize. One is our industry is at the phase whereby vertical integrations, particularly innovations that happens across the boundary of device hardware, operating systems platforms, in application services tend to drive greater degree of innovations, greater economic value. So from value creation standpoint having the ability to go end to end is a key part of Microsoft to deliver unique value proposition to our customers and drive innovation, , that’s one.
The second is in terms of the ability to capture economic values, as you look at today the [indiscernible] business models are able to capture substantial amount of economic values upon a few that are major, one is, such other type as being showed by Google and Microsoft are able to drive substantial economies.
The second is selling to enterprise, which Microsoft has a very, very strong presence, and so they sell devices and if you look at across the growth look at the last two fiscal years; the companies tend to drive a lot of economic values around those major categories. So it’s a combination of driving innovation, creating values and being able to be in a position to capture economic value. So strategically being strong in mobile devices is very important for Microsoft.
Keith Weiss - Morgan Stanley
You mentioned the new CEO on board at Microsoft first time had a non-founders skill at Microsoft. I was wondering if you could give us your impressions of the new boss. What you think of his leadership style and what you think of his ability to execute? And what changes might we expect from the new boss at Microsoft going forward?
Yes first of all speak on my behalf; I think I can speak something on behalf of the Senior Management team. We’re just as thrilled to have Satya Nadella be at the helm and taking leadership role as the company’s new CEO, that’s number one.
The second is, at the personal level I had the opportunity to work with Satya for a number of years and work together closely in different capacities. And I can tell you I hold very, very high regards for Satya as a leader and very excited about the future opportunity to partner with Satya very, very closely taking our company going forward. Specifically there is a lot of things Satya has already hit the ground running, driving lot of forward progress. And you will see us focusing a lot more driving clarity. We have our strategy, device and services, but fundamentally use device and services as means to deliver what we call a high value scenario, especially do more experiences for individual scope in this business, driving clarity and it's not the alignment, the company needs to be far more aligned that we made an organizational change in July last year, where we call it a One Microsoft or the initial model. There is still a lot of work needs to go do so that across the company, our resources, our business initiative are fully-fully aligned; and also driving the intensity, the pressure for the progress. So there is a lot of experiment energies going forward.
Keith Weiss - Morgan Stanley
At the analyst day, at the end of last year, you talked about one of the values of cloud services, the ability to immediately reserve what the customer does and put to their capabilities of the cloud scale infrastructure to use those machineries we are talking about to change the face of innovation, to bring out new services fast, you were talking about earlier. Where are we likely to see that initially from Microsoft? What all kind of offerings or services, would we see that first emergence?
Yes, Keith that serves the question, when that same product is moving from a on premise for the inter-cloud world, for example the Office Suite moving for the cloud to become Office 365, there is a number of important benefits. This particular aspect is the way you bring it up, is really about the ability, our new ability to drive hardened relations, because once they come to cloud to deliver the services, there is a few important dimensions of innovation capability. One is the pace of product update and experience innovations. In the older on-premise world, many people familiar with office products that we ship new versions every few years, and in reality it takes the IT department of a large ownership lot of effort to upgrade.
So there is actually usually only a percentage of customers actually get the benefit of the new products. Once you move to the cloud world, you always immediately get the benefit of new innovations, new experiences. But much more importantly cloud enabled services; the software has the ability to immediately observe customer behavior, so to respond to customer needs in far more agile way. Our entire organization is going through a profound change so that we can follow along the continuous development, we have continuous development, continuous quality, continuous intelligence, using business intelligence [indiscernible] continuous planning, driving all the new values for customers on a steady pace. The most important to think that driving going forward, it would be a huge source of product innovation.
It’s the benefit of its own patterns, and we convert those patterns into what we call a high value enterprise graphs. So they happen to be important. Today we have a lot of conference as we speak the same day; you must be at the SharePoint conference, so we can announce a number of new products. And the one thing I want to highlight is for the first time, we announced to the world the availability of [indiscernible]. This is, if you just think about it, there are as many-many graphs, the highlighted graphs. What auto graph is, we look at the user behaviors in enterprise, some of the communication, exchange, on SharePoint and the document that they use. And they connect document with the people because they are just PowerPoint, you will go to this product [indiscernible] because you can sign it, you can distribute all you are information.
You can say this document, my manager presented this to his boss two weeks ago, and several of my colleagues said they like it. So if you think about it, like a buzz feed like capabilities, that tell you what’s trendy, what’s important? Which customer has seen this report? And this is really the supervisor book, of what Office Graph can. And if you think about, there is many-many other graph you can imagine. 35 years ago, if anyone asked people publish research paper about the $1 trillion enterprise high value clouds. But once you move to the cloud, you have that opportunity to observe the patterns. A innovation paradigm. There is a fundamental shift from writing new software, shipping new services of building graphs. And then using graph is a fundamental drive of driving new innovation, not just for Microsoft, where I see customers.
So this is the beginning. I think already it is the beginning. We are moving to different area of to drive innovation. Super, super excited, because if we do have to look further, if you just look at Facebook or LinkedIn, what Facebook has is really who knows who graph. But think about what they are able to deliver in terms of values to their customers and enterprise value [indiscernible]. LinkedIn is really the skill graph, people connecting to professional relationships. Microsoft offers to defy, we'll be in a position to discover surface generation many-many high value enterprise graph, professional graphs, and use those to drive innovations. So today is really the beginning of SharePoint conference of the announcing the availability of the Office Graph, we are simply excited about the big opportunity.
Keith Weiss - Morgan Stanley
A great segway into -- I want to start drilling down a little bit into some of the individual business, seems to have responsibility for, starting with Office. Office 365 has been a big part over the past gen and emergence, I can show you the bigger parts going forward, what should we think about the release date on Office 365 on a going forward basis, and maybe the release that are most anticipating is the potential of having Office on iOS. How should industry feel thinking about that timeline?
Yes, Keith I think this is the question, I believe actually we are at the financial analyst meeting, let me maybe answer your, the iOS question first and talk about the release cadence after that. So, as a principle, we look at two factors, what is beside, what to shift and what happens in what country, there’s really two factors to look at. The first factor is whether there is genuine customer, each of the customer needs and whether we are in position to deliver great experience for our customers, that’s number one.
The second factor is whether we can do that that makes economic sense for Microsoft. So those are the two things we look at and with regards the Office Suite products, a portion of products for example OneNote, Ink, Type, OneDrive, they’re already available on non-Microsoft Windows platforms already, on iOS, on Android and different form factors on phones and tablets. So that’s important that we to make that clear.
The others is we also have another portion of the core applications namely Word, PowerPoint, Excel, Outlook. And those products today they’re available on Windows, Mac OS, they’re also available on the web, so if you use a iPad, if you want to use Office, you can use the web version as well.
But those products were kind of designed for mice and keyboard, for the desktop mode. So we have been working on touch version of these four apps and we’re going to make those applications available for Windows devices and non-Windows devices. But exactly what [indiscernible] the when and how, you have to again go back to these two factors. Are we in a position to truly be able to deliver the great experience to serve our customers’ needs and whether we can do that that makes business sense?
So that’s how we think about this and take a step back connecting what I’ve already said. Our company is fundamentally about deliver two more experiences for our customers and we do those really as great opportunity. Because the more foreign device that are out there, the better it is for Microsoft to have the ability to reach more customers.
Deliver high value experience to them, particularly in a touch modern device world and you can have additional capability to go beyond the experience that we have.
For example, most of those modern devices will have a camera. How many times we see people taking picture of what’s on a [indiscernible] or taking picture of slides on screen, and we will have the opportunity to make a lot easier for you to capture those information, organize those information. So we generally view those as opportunities, but we are going to do that in a manner as I mentioned earlier.
So that’s one part, the other part about the lease cadence, that's very-very important, I want to emphasize it. To fundamentally change our engineering capabilities, moving to a new order whereby we’re always starting innovation and be able to accelerate the pace of a heartbeat, is fundamentally important. And in other ways we are moving into a world whereby we can ship our services on a continuous basis and also getting a position where we can ship contents on quarterly basis. So we’re not quite there yet, there’s a lot of hard core engineering we're looking to do, but that’s a fundamental shift which in order to raise our company’s capability to drive innovation at a much-much greater level. So there’s a lot of important activity that's [indiscernible].
Keith Weiss - Morgan Stanley
Lync remains on the fastest growing product areas for Microsoft and one that we hear some of the most positive feedback from enterprise customers around. Can you talk about what’s really resonating with these customers and how big that business can get, where are the further areas that could go into and maybe also touch on how site plays into that overall, please.
So this is indeed one of the things we are super, super excited about, one is as we all know, the communication products and experiences really moving upwards in the sense that lot of people still using email but voice and video communications is a lot richer, but there’s a lot of opportunity to systematically erase that experience, that’s number one. The second is our Lync business is growing very-very strong and [indiscernible] is already over $1 billion revenue and going through a very-very high growth patterns, at the same time we also have a very strong asset in Skype and we should fully expect [indiscernible] going to operate each other so that our customers, our users will be able to improve their rich, audio-video communication whether you are at work or at home. So there’s a lot of opportunity for that.
But more importantly we see this area whereby there’s tremendous opportunity to drive a more innovation value. But combine the large base, the digital communication, digital media experience is still far away from being a truly satisfactory experience with any, I’ll give you some numbers, based on some of the statistic we see from our Lync customers. On average it takes more than 10 minutes to get a meeting started, because you are always fumbling the downloads and all those try to get these things and [indiscernible], you are all enjoying a conference call on those, it’s almost a trend, always somebody forgot to unmute and we keep talking and then oops, you have to repeat yourself. So the meeting experience is far from being satisfied, we see there’s fantastic opportunities, to drive innovations and some of the things we’ve been telling our engineering team, so how about we focus on if you start the meeting instant at any time you join the meeting, it’s starts you don’t have to fumble around. And how about in the future you drive to a meeting you don’t have to repeat yourself, we just start from there and then you think about the meetings and give you one examples there was a start up in the Bay actually in San Francisco we call [indiscernible] lab they have private clients. They have meetings but all the information you talk about let’s say two people talking about making chips in Las Vegas everything you talk about Las Vegas that’s one stop away as you talk if the swapping solutions from what you’re talking about into a shared voice sync and if you annotate the comment so there is lots of opportunity for us at the Microsoft so take as what we have. But purely takes experience as of today to a much, much high level and we see a lot of opportunity to drive not just experience benefit but also drive the economic value for our customers and products.
Keith Weiss - Morgan Stanley
I think good segue. And I want to make clear I want to be clear I may open up to questions [indiscernible] we should touch on all the development divisions before that little over market that was competing with David Harrell who worked with you. He made a comment that really resonated with me around the Bing asset that you guys have. Talking about Bing as being one of the few push technologies out there that are really able to be at scale on a be large enough to compare all elements what’s going on not just Internet but what’s going on with [indiscernible] to become a fast growing technology for information technology on a go forward basis.
With that in mind it is something that’s a little what you’re talking about bringing in these other areas of information into a meet of clarifications for instance. On the other hand when I talk to investors we hear a lot about their ability to spin out there, something that hasn’t been possible for you guys for a while perhaps, just a distraction. Can you about the wisdom of whether or not would make sense to spin out again what does it brings to Microsoft? And how hard would it be? Is there something you guys have ever thought is there something that’s really possible?
That’s we had -- that what Dave just sitting right over there. So the strategic thesis for Bing, there is several dimensions Keith I want to comment on. One is if the locator search engine technology at the core it’s about building the digital connective tissues to organize the world of information. But for Bing here some of the numbers we see 10s of trillions URLs at any given day we discover 10s of billions new URLs at a single day and because as our society our industry overall are digitizing everything what we do. So, although the product is manifested in the form of you giving keywords, getting URL, listen you have to [indiscernible] but the capability is really the digital connective tissues organizing information, organizing digital experiences. So it’s fundamentally important as the ingredient for Microsoft and for our industry if you drive innovations viewed next generation of digital experiences.
For example in the device arena you can already see our smartphones the way people seek information may not be typing URLs and typing keywords and getting URLs particularly let’s say if you use a small watch you are not going to type keywords and click on URLs what you will do probably just speak to it on using other ways to [indiscernible] you can use search as a fundamental technology to organize information, gather the information based on its ability to understand using hand the focus of whom have been deliver information. So there is a lot of opportunity for us to use Bing as a ingredient to differentiate Microsoft devices and Microsoft core services for example in Office we have a Office Agave deliver new experiences as part of Office Suit and Bing is already delivering a lot of newer value it will see us deliver more and more values in those results.
So that’s one important part, the second is Bing as a business. As we look around across our entire industry search is a very, very important fashion capability. There is actually very few as offline search and we don’t have to go very far just to look at in the United States, Google, Microsoft are able to drive economic revenue growth using search engine and in China there is actually for example a company called [indiscernible] and they were able to use search as economic model to extract potential value, so search is very important capability for Microsoft in our quest to drive device and service strategy to be able to capture economical values.
And also most importantly is search has a ingredient in five fundamental innovations to take Microsoft experiences to next or particularly the two more experiences because we have when we start over the Bing innovations we have a different point of view to begin with let’s say people search for information as always at a purpose I mind there are expressions for search for information is always in the context of accomplish something. So for build experiences we always want to build experiences to say not only you get the information but you also get the context and top of the linear information and you also have the opportunity to do the activities right there. So I mentioned as always being let’s organize the world of information differently to enable our users to accomplish fast get stuff done. So the Bing experience the Bing capabilities is a fundamentally consistent with our do more spirit path to take our Company to the next level.
The last thing I want to mention is fundamentally we as an organization are hardcore committed to make our Bing investment, the economic viable endeavors because in many ways you can think about the best invention we as a society as a human being has come up so far is this thing called market. This market is fabulous platforms, once you make something economically viable and our mission we find the right innovation so the entire Bing organization is very much committed in making Bing economical a viable endeavor and we are very, very pleased being our proven so far because we think gaining market shares since we launched the Bing search engine every month since June 2009 we have been gaining market share in the United States and we have been also appointing service across the globe.
So very pleased about progress we made so far, the net of it is it’s fundamentally important piece of technology for Microsoft to take where we’re today due to that phase of Microsoft. Second is it’s strategically important for us to capture economic values for the portfolio.
Keith Weiss - Morgan Stanley
To put a point on it in terms of the profitability and throughout the profitability do the targets remain the same in terms of the levels of share, I may need to remind us what those levels are of market share that you need to reach profitability and what kind of timeline in that are you thinking about of when we’ll get there?
So instead of the talking about the specific timelines, we will have to talk about given the fixed cost for you to investing the operating expenses and set up fee because associated with one of those costs if you have very high fixed cost and the marginal cost I am assuming extra cost is actually very low. So in the United States it takes roughly about somewhat between 20 to 22 points of market shares. And depending on the different expense and also Keith and anyways depend on your investment profits and we want to invest and innovate our sustainable gain shares, being positioned to drive more innovations and also drive those innovations for our devices for our service business at the same time being able to drive economic growth to make it a economically viable endeavors. Maybe on that front I want to make sure, let me share a couple of things.
One is the search economics is all volume driven, as we know search is one of those products volume scale is its magic. The largest the more the scale the product gets better, people say that I can search anytime with the search box, I think [indiscernible] knows and the typo knows what you are about to type. And that feature alone is driven by skill, since more people use it the quality of suggestion gets better, so that’s number one. The second is the most curious the market’s more economic yield the high economic yield, first 1,000 queries, you are able to make more revenues because search type of spend there are always sold out and there is a spot market and pricing, but the more volume you have the more economic yield.
So we have been driving volumes organically for our own old shares also through distribution of partners. There is couple of things I want to mention, one is many of you probably know this Bing is partner for Apple’s Siri. So we have been providing Siri backfilled we have been serving winnings queries already and we’re very, very pleased with that the Apple customers, Apple derivatives so far that all customer satisfaction is zero complain, that’s awesome to know.
Second is the Kindle device, Bing is also the default search provider. There is a lot of opportunities because on a global basis there is only [indiscernible] and search as I said from technological standpoint is foundational, it’s organizing the digital fabric for outstanding innovations on devices, economically it is a strong as a value [indiscernible] as you can get and we’re very, very pleased with that Microsoft we are able to invest in that technology [indiscernible] there is a lot of opportunity for driving more volumes organically for distribution purpose and we drive better product and better yield across business.
Keith Weiss - Morgan Stanley
Now I have been asking, my questions for long already. So I want to make sure you receive questions from the audience, any questions from the audience? Back there.
Like as I said our strategy has been deliver high value scenarios and through the device and services, that’s number one. The second is, our core is do more, because that’s our founding DNA. And third is we’re going to drive a lot more clarity, in term of strategy and we’ll drive lot more alignment across the company and also the velocity, the intensity is the industry is moving at a very, very faster pace and our Company’s opportunity for the next phase is fully vast so you will see us move with an motto facing of forward of energy, and speed of intensity with clarity pure alignment. So that would be the strategy to focus on do more, the focus on getting the high value scenario.
Keith Weiss - Morgan Stanley
I question up here in the front.
Might sound a little bit outrageous, thinking about how you match up strength start [indiscernible] Facebook and doesn’t have a presence yet. It might make sense for Apple and Microsoft to merge?
So I will not directly answer the last part of your question that’s -- but first part of question is important. The Microsoft and Bread and Butter result to more work and Microsoft’s sense is anyways is our brand and our relationship with enterprise customers who is professional. Hopefully Microsoft extends our longevity of investments in technology, in R&D capabilities. And the areas where we need to a lot more is on the end-user side, on the consumer side. In my organization one of the key things I am pushing hard is that we have to drive innovations, drive much faster pace innovation so that our product, our quality, the simplicity, the ease of use and our product also needs to appeal to the young generations. Those are the areas that we need to do a lot more work but we have fundamental strength and we have lot of faith in our ability to execute it along those.
Keith Weiss - Morgan Stanley
I just wanted to dig in last remaining couple of minutes, maybe going back to the search business and relationship with Yahoo! CEO, Marissa Mayer has expressed frustration with Microsoft partnership in the past. Morris comments seemed a little bit more favorable, do you think that’s going to be a durable relationship with Microsoft going forward?
So, first of all we have a key strategic partnership with Microsoft and Yahoo! And that’s a very, very important relationship between two companies. And we are very, very committed and will consider us as strong partners to drive innovations for both companies and drive value, that’s number one. The second is if you pay attention to Yahoo!’s official comments in their quarterly earnings, you will find that Yahoo! always expressed they are pleased with the business performance. They are pleased with the partnership because that’s very important.
And so this is about driving innovation and as we all know search today in new form keywords, URLs, our mobile devices, there is a lot of opportunity and we see Apple as a partner to innovate together because we share the same platform. The more innovation Yahoo! is able to drive the better it is for Yahoo! customers and better it is for the base platform. As I said on global basis, there is only two things being talked, so we are motivated together to drive innovations, drive more values and we see, continue on that strategic formation path that is serving both the company as well.
Keith Weiss - Morgan Stanley
Maybe one last question to wrap it up and you really talking about the synergies between the search business and mobile, how important is win for an adopting to really have mobile emerge as a big value driver on the search side of the business for Microsoft?
So, there is natural synergy, it’s in mobile devices and search because if you look at why you use a phone, typically do because a lot of times you use a phone to accomplish important day-to-day tasks and the part of being able to I think accomplish our day-to-day task is finding information, seeking information. So, we see phone is a do more device and search is really the gateway. It enable users to collect the information you want and it’s a digital experience system, it has a specific user experiences, is not going to be the same as you type in keywords and getting URL. And Apple Siri in many ways is a good example of the new kind of experiences you will value by planning such technology in the mobile phone device, phone factors the usage of modality that take experience to next level.
So, we are actively investing a lot of technology capabilities that if you look at the Windows phone today, you see a lot of experience for example local scout, the recommendations for application and services, all those are different way of using such technologies it is more value. And we have to done very early phase we have thought over the map a pretty confident and we are able to drive a whole lot more use of value, economic value.
Keith Weiss - Morgan Stanley
And that is the end of our presentation. And thank you very much for joining.
Thank you, great talking to you. Thank you.
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