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Doral Financial Corporation (NYSE:DRL)

Q4 2013 Results Earnings Conference Call

March 24, 2014, 02:00 PM ET

Executives

Glen Wakeman - CEO and President

Enrique R. Ubarri-Baragano - EVP and General Counsel

David E. Hooston - EVP and CFO

Analysts

Gregory Greenberg - Wells Fargo

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon thank you for standing by. And welcome to the Doral Financial Corporation's Fourth Quarter Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions). As a reminder today's conference is being recorded.

I would now like to turn the conference over to our host, CEO and President, Mr. Glen Wakeman. Please go ahead.

Glen Wakeman

Thank you very much. Thank you and welcome everyone for our fourth quarter and 2013 investor call. My name is Glen Wakeman. I'm President and Chief Executive Officer of Doral. Before we get started I would like to ask our General Counsel, Enrique Ubarri, to comment on some important disclosure matters.

Enrique R. Ubarri-Baragano

Thank you, Glen. This presentation today may include forward-looking statements as defined in the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These include comments with respect to our objectives and strategies and the results of our operations and business. Forward-looking statements can be identified by the fact that they do not relate strictly to historical or current facts. They often include words such as expects, anticipates, intends, plans, believes, seeks, estimates or words of similar meaning or future or conditional words such as will, would, should, could or may. We intend these forward-looking statements to be covered by the Safe Harbors of the Private Securities Litigation Act of 1995. Glen?

Glen Wakeman

Thank you, Enrique. This afternoon I will be discussing our fourth quarter and 2013 results. There is an investor deck that was made available, you can follow along with our commentary.

2013 was a difficult year as we posted a total year loss of $88 million. The costs of credit and compliance in our Puerto Rico market overwhelmed our progress on several fronts. In spite of the loss we maintained compliance with our regulatory consent order and capital requirements but at a high cost. Although our asset quality and coverage ratios showed improvements the shrinking economy is driving up carrying costs. The U.S. operations were a bright spot as they continued their strong and profitable growth, contributing $55 million to earnings.

Turning to the fourth quarter our $50 million loss was a large subset of the full year story. Capital compliance in a shrinking market drove higher provisions and credit costs. Everything wasn't gloomy however, our NIM exceeded 300 basis points; Tier 1 bank capital is above our 8% requirement; non-performing assets fell for the year; we maintained a solid number two mortgage position; and once again our U.S. business grew its earnings.

We were pleased that the government of Puerto Rico successfully executed its funding plan. However we continue to plan for continued economic recession in Puerto Rico. As we have mentioned previously, in order to prepare for that continuation at the beginning of 2013 we established a good bank/bad bank strategy.

By separating the assets and operations in Puerto Rico from our mortgage bank we have been better able to analyze and address our borrower’s needs on a loan-by-loan basis. We are seeing the most immediate benefit of those actions in our commercial portfolio where our non-performing assets fell by another $20 million this quarter. Our residential mortgage customers were impacted by higher utility prices and continuing wage pressures but nevertheless residential NPAs were down $3.5 million.

Our U.S. operations continued to execute extremely well. Assets now exceed $2.8 billion and we continue to maintain a track record of minimal delinquency. Also importantly we continue to grow our U.S. deposit base. We have now reached $1.7 billion in retail deposits and expect to continue to see solid growth during 2014. The U.S. operations are now essentially funding independent.

In Puerto Rico our mortgage franchise is also contributing to our good bank. We continue to see softness in the mortgage market and our production during the year reflected this environment. However please remember that we sell almost all of our mortgage origination volume. Once again our capital exceeds our regulatory requirements. So in summary, we are making progress building a good bank that can offset the cost of a bad bank.

Please go to page five and you can see the profile of our company. Doral Financial Corporation is an $8.5 billion bank holding company with operations in the United States and Puerto Rico. We have transformed Doral from a trading business into a more traditional community bank wherein commercial assets complement our mortgage franchise but we operate in two geographies. Given the continuing economic challenges in the island we have chosen to create growth opportunities by building our commercial book in the U.S.

Regarding capital, our tier 1 leverage ratio remains above our regulatory requirements. We contributed over $80 million from our holding company to the bank this quarter. Further capital contributions would likely need to come from selling our scratch and dent assets in the holding company. Additionally we can also delever our balance sheet by selling lower margin assets and this gives us some runway to execute our strategy of building a good bank that offsets the cost of a bad bank.

Our book value per share is over $57. We trade at a substantial discount to book value and the discount is understandable. We have a large pool of legacy assets that needs special attention. They are also a significant drag on earnings. We will continue to reduce this drag in order to increase our market cap and that is our focus. These assets cloud and overwhelm an underlying good bank.

We have depicted the split between good bank and bad bank, which we call recovery on page six of the investor deck. Separating the operations has enabled us to develop unique strategies and plans for each unit. Our mortgage bank continues to build on its historical strengths. It is a profitable enterprise that can be further simplified and improved. For example, we did reduce eight branches in the past year as a part of consolidating our operations. As noted our U.S. operations fuel our growth. Our bad bank we call Doral recovery and this unit manages our discontinued, restructured and non-performing assets on the island. It is a special servicer, distinct from our mortgage banking operations.

Our recovery assets are essentially collateralized by real estate in Puerto Rico. Now special servicing doesn’t necessary mean that all of the loans are bad. As a reminder more than 60% of our loans are performing in this book. Our focus is on establishing and maintaining payments, improving our collateral position and optimizing our cost to collect. Today, we have over 200 dedicated resources deployed at the asset level. The solutions they provide include restructures, forbearance, short sales, foreclosures, or deeds in lieu.

Strategies are customized to the needs of each borrower and concentrate on maximizing the recovery of our principal. We have had some foresight about the prospects for the Island’s economy. That is why several years ago we discontinued construction and commercial lending in Puerto Rico. Instead we choose to rebuild our U.S. mainline business and reposition our portfolio. Our profile is changing as we continue to reduce our exposure to the island and migrate our assets to the U.S.

As of today over 40% of our loans and almost half of our retail deposits are now based in the U.S.

Now Dave Hooston, our CFO will drill down on our fourth quarter results. Dave?

David E. Hooston

Thank you, Glen. We reported a net loss of $50.9 million for the quarter ended December 31, 2013. This compares to our [inaudible] net loss of $14.7 million for the third quarter. This decrease in earnings was mainly driven by a decrease in non-interest income and an increase in non-interest expense both associated with performance of our Puerto Rico operations. We reported a net loss of $88.3 million for all of 2013, compared to a net loss of $3.3 million for 2012. As you recall pretax losses of a $165.8 million in 2012 were offset by a $161.5 million of income tax benefits during that year.

Some fourth quarter highlights. Our net interest income for the fourth quarter was $57.4 million, virtually flat compared to the third quarter and slightly up when compared to the fourth quarter of 2012. In the fourth quarter our net interest margin improved to 302 basis points when compared to 298 basis points for both the third and fourth quarters of 2013 and 2012 respectively. Our improved margin relates principally to improved cost of funding.

Our brokered deposits declined by a $182.1 million in the fourth quarter and $582.4 million during the entirety of 2013. During the fourth quarter we retired a $189.5 million of high cost repurchase agreements and our retail deposits increased $180.3 million in the fourth quarter and $938.8 million year-over-year. The restructuring of our liability structure will continue to benefit throughout 2014.

We provided $25.8 million of loan and lease loss provisions for the fourth quarter of 2013. This compares to $23.6 million for the third quarter and $21.3 million for the fourth quarter of 2012. The $25.8 million provision for loan and lease losses in the fourth quarter resulted mainly from provisions of $13.6 million and $9.9 million for commercial real estate and construction land portfolios respectively.

Non-interest income for the fourth quarter totaled $11.6 million and reflects decreases of $7.1 million and $17.2 million respectively when compared to the third and fourth quarters of 2013 and 2012. For the fourth quarter the decline in non-interest income was compared to the third quarter principally resulted from $9.3 million in revaluations related to our IO derivatives. The revision to our valuation model assumes increased discount rates, prepayment speeds and cost of servicing. We also incurred $2.4 million in prepayment charges to retire our repurchase agreement. The early retirement of our repurchase agreement was cost neutral to us but increased our on-balance sheet liquidity ratios.

For the fourth quarter partially offsetting the above was the recognition of our annual insurance agency commission volume benefit which totaled $4.4 million.

Fourth quarter mortgages sold volume was down slightly to the third quarter though margins declined substantially on new production to 207 basis points from 371 basis points in the third quarter. This resulted in the comparative decline of $2.6 million in gain on mortgages sold from the third quarter. For the entire year 2013 non-interest income declined principally as a consequence of loans of lower gains and losses, lower gains on loans securitized and sold by $19.4 million. This was mostly driven by a decline in margin to 328 basis points from 552 basis points in 2012. Partially offsetting this was an increase in volume of loans sold which increased to $842 million from $797.6 million in 2012.

Non-interest expense for the fourth quarter totaled $94.6 million, an increase of $26.2 million and $18.3 million respectively from the third quarter and fourth quarters of 2012. The increase of non-interest expense in the fourth quarter over the third quarter, included recognizing and increasing other real estate owned expenses of $8.7 million associated with specific commercial property write-downs at year-end to reflect changed valuation methodologies.

Also in the fourth quarter we saw an increase of $4.6 million and $22 million respectively in compensation and benefits in professional services, principally associated with increased regulatory compliance and credit risk management. Doral recognized an income tax benefit of $580,000 for the quarter-ended December 31, 2013, compared to an income tax benefit of $1 million and $50.2 million for the third quarter of 2013 and fourth quarter of 2012 respectively. The decrease compared to the fourth quarter of 2012 is due mainly to our $50.6 million deferred tax benefit recognized in 2012.

Now for some asset quality comments; our non-performing loans, excluding FHA and VA loans at year-end declined $31.5 million to $685.9 million for the quarter. This is a 4.4% decline and result of largely from actions that management has taken to mitigate the risks associated with our Puerto Rico loan portfolio.

Note that the total non-performing loans for the U.S. portfolio at year-end totaled $3.9 million out of that entirety. Our recovery team worked through non-performing loans in the fourth quarter as follows: We noted $12.9 million in paid outs; we recognized $94 million in improvements to performing status for loans that had reached their fixed payment threshold; we foreclosed on $24 million of loans that went to the OREO status; and we charged-off $27.2 million.

These improvements in our non-performing portfolio were offset by $77 million of new delinquencies and $35.6 million of previously modified loans that returned to non-accrual status. We also measured our modified coverage ratio which measures life time charge-offs against non-performing loans plus all current reserves as compared to non-performing loans. Our modified coverage ratio increased to 40% as of year-end compared to 34.6% at the end of the third quarter.

Glen, back to you.

Glen Wakeman

Thanks Dave. So in summary although 2013 was a difficult year we continued to make progress in transforming our company. Non-performing assets were down, coverage is up, NIM is up and we are capital compliant. The U.S. continues to deliver high quality growth and Doral Recovery is helping to workout non-performing assets.

There is more earnings power opportunity ahead as we continue to re-price some $500 million of liabilities over the next several months. We expect that it translates into a stability in our NIM. Now despite this progress we remain quite concerned about the Island's prospects and the risk it poses to our Island-based operations.

Carrying costs of problem asset are continuing to rise, causing increases to overall credit cost. We expect the current environment will be met with more stakeholder scrutiny across the Board. And as is appropriate we continue to examine all available options and opportunities to address these assets and related costs. We will keep you updated on our progress as we seek to build the good bank that more than offsets the cost of a bad one.

Thank you for your attention and we will now be pleased to answer your questions.

Question-and-Answer Session

Operator

(Operator Instructions). Our first question today comes from the line of [Steve Davidowitz] from Simmons. Please go head.

Unidentified Analyst

Thank you. My question is to Glen or Dave, and this is also on behalf of shareholders that I speak with as well as that it's actually a hurtful experience just year-after-year be a Doral shareholders with the year-after-year uncertainty and wondering when is the good going to be more than the bad or when is that Doral growth going to be enough to take care of the Doral recovery. So the question would be again approximately when can we see or hope for net income where that Doral growth can take care of that Doral recovery? And the other two things is that if that net income doesn’t come around thoughts on two other possibilities, one is sell the bank or two, one big package deal to sell off the non-performers. That’s my question.

Glen Wakeman

Thank you very much for your question and we too are quite frustrated with the ongoing burden of the elevated credit and administrative costs associated with troubles we are managing through in a distressed economy. It’s fair to say I think at this point after seven years of recession one could technically consider it a depression and unfortunately we do have long assets in that economy.

And no we have not yet been able to take the value we have created with our good bank and offset the cost of liquidating the bad bank. I think all of those things are true and because of that I really hesitate to try to forecast our estimate on an ongoing basis when the lines will cross because unfortunately we still have a sizeable position in Puerto Rico and as much as we would hope for better prospects on the island, the numbers tell us the outlook will continue to be gloomy and unfortunately that’s what we believe.

We have managed to reduce our position and offset the cost of reduction by generating some $55 million in profits in the Mainland but sad to say it’s not enough. So to answer your question directly we don't have a point of view yet about where we will be income accretive. We hesitate to estimate a point of view because there is still so much uncertainty about the core drivers of our asset quality, which is population loss, job loss and the overall economic demise of the island.

So having said that, would we be open? We would be open to any option that can generate value for our common and so as the company continues to focus on its fundamentals we hope to make it more attractive for others. And short of that if there was a way to dispose of assets that would be helpful to us we would certainly look to do so, that’s one of any number of options that we work on a daily basis to try to improve the credit quality of the company.

Unidentified Analyst

Thank you.

Operator

(Operator Instructions). And we’ll go to the line of [Peter Cormack], private investor. Please go ahead.

Unidentified Participant

Hi, guys, couple of things, quick questions for you. First of all, as it relates to a couple of the debt pieces that are out there, one at HoldCo and one at the bank level. You have got $100 million or so that’s the first kind of meaningful debt maturity, that comes back to you in March of 2016 and I just want to see if you give us a little feedback with regard to what your game plan is on that given the fact that you have got, not nearly that much liquidity at HoldCo and really no prospects for dividends coming out from the banking subsidiary. What’s the strategy for that as it comes due here in about two years?

Glen Wakeman

If need be we have assets at HoldCo that we would liquidate. They would be liquidated at a book loss but we are confident we could more than offset that obligation.

Unidentified Participant

And the same goes for the obligations that’s in 2015 and 2017 as well? You got 27 in 2015 and another 40 in ’17?

Glen Wakeman

Yes.

Unidentified Participant

And the second piece was we’ve got $832 million worth of notes payable, that are held at the bank subsidiary level, that are collateralized I think from CLO 1 through 3. If all of the assets went to zero what is the worst case scenario coming back to the bank on that $832 million worth of notes payable at the banking level?

Glen Wakeman

There is no recourse on that, so there is no worst case scenario.

Unidentified Analyst

Excellent, okay. I’ll get back in queue. Thanks.

Glen Wakeman

Thank you.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Greg Greenberg with Wells Fargo. Please go ahead.

Gregory Greenberg - Wells Fargo

Hi, as far as the deposit growth during the year, not the brokered fees but the approximately $940 million of new core deposits, approximately how much was that in the U.S. and how much in Puerto Rico?

Glen Wakeman

Most of that is in the U.S., so that's 85%. The good story about Puerto Rico is we were able to maintain our retail deposit levels, while at the same time closing, meaning eliminating the cost of eight branches.

Gregory Greenberg - Wells Fargo

And those eight branches were closed over how many years, last two years, one year?

Glen Wakeman

No, over the last 12 months.

Gregory Greenberg - Wells Fargo

12 months, okay. So you have gone down from like 30 to 22, is that about right?

Glen Wakeman

Actually today we are at 18.

Gregory Greenberg - Wells Fargo

You are at 18 today. How many of those were closed so far in '14?

Glen Wakeman

Well, we closed four in Feb and we closed -- Feb '014 and we closed four in '013.

Gregory Greenberg - Wells Fargo

Okay. You did have -- indicate you had a subsequent event selling some mortgage [rights] [ph], and you didn't disclose what you received, can you kind of give us a ball park of what the economics of that is?

David E. Hooston

Basically par, we had a slight gain, but basically par.

Gregory Greenberg - Wells Fargo

Okay, and is there more opportunity to do things like that or does that just create liquidity?

Glen Wakeman

Actually that was a counterparty that was in our home economy and they wanted to acquire those assets and we would entertain that provided that it's – the pricing is reasonable. It's not liquidity though because the bank as you know - the company in general has pretty expensive liquidity in the bank.

Gregory Greenberg - Wells Fargo

Sure.

Glen Wakeman

So that was just opportunistic to simplify our operations and essentially migrate the ownership of the asset to the owner of the loans.

Gregory Greenberg - Wells Fargo

Okay, thank you.

Operator

Our next question is a follow-up from [Steve Danowitz] representing Simmons. Please go ahead.

Unidentified Analyst

Yes, my other question is related to $321 million of deferred tax asset. From my understanding that only could be beneficial to a company that it has to be Puerto Rico-based income unless I am wrong. Could perhaps a non-financial company be interested in something like that, maybe a company involved in liquor or tourism or I don't know what other sectors could be out there in Puerto Rico but is that a viable thought at all?

Glen Wakeman

Well there are two -- there are two different types of assets we carry, I think the one you are referring to is an overpayment to the Sovereignty of Puerto Rico. That asset can be sold with other parts of the company, it can be earned, it could be offset, so there is lots of flexibility. It is not limited to a financial institution, no.

Unidentified Analyst

But would it be a viable thing for another company to consider or not necessarily or one doesn't know?

Glen Wakeman

It would be viable. The problem would be that the terms of the asset or payment in about five years or maximum of five years, so there might be some discount to do that if it was sold in that way.

Unidentified Analyst

Okay, thank you.

Glen Wakeman

You're welcome.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of [Peter Cormack], a private investor. Please go ahead.

Unidentified Participant

Hi guys, just two more follow-ups, thanks. Back to the MSRs, it looks like in the K you sold in 2013 a $154 million worth of MSRs and you got paid about $1.9 million, so about 1.2% or so. Is that roughly what the proceeds were from the $426 million that was sold to BPOP?

David E. Hooston

The proceeds were $1.9 million -- you lost me on a 126, the unpaid principal balance of the servicing portfolio was the $400 plus million number.

Unidentified Participant

Well I was working off of the K from 2013, you sold a $154 million worth of servicing assets and you got $1.896 million proceeds from sales of MSRs in 2013?

David E. Hooston

All right, I was thinking about the subsequent events, apologize.

Unidentified Participant

Yes. The subsequent event was $426 million and you didn't disclose the pricing, but is it fair to assume that the pricing is in that range?

David E. Hooston

Yeah, we are selling based on par some of the servicing agreements but the cost of servicing are actually exceeding our revenue, so if someone offers us par we are going to take it.

Unidentified Participant

So this one was on a much less advantageous sales price than what you did during 2013?

David E. Hooston

No, anything approximate par is what we are taking.

Unidentified Participant

Okay, all right. And then the final question was, in the K you have got focused future growth on the U.S. obviously and investment banking firms have been engaged. That's the first disclosure of that, correct?

Glen Wakeman

To my knowledge it is but we -- yeah, to my knowledge it is, yes.

Unidentified Participant

Okay, and is there -- has there been any history at all of banking franchises on the Island selling with a reasonably good deposit premium or do you hope to just sell that at par also?

Glen Wakeman

Well to be honest we haven't decided that we are going to do any of that. What we are trying to do and I think what the idea behind the investment bankers was is we have a lot of non-performing assets in a troubled economy and we are looking at any number of possibilities and to the degree that we could get external advice about what those strategic possibilities are we are essentially embracing that.

Unidentified Participant

And that could be anything from selling non-performers up to including selling PRG ex-U.S, correct?

Glen Wakeman

Could be.

Unidentified Participant

Okay, thank you.

Glen Wakeman

You're welcome.

Operator

And we have a question from [Brian Conrad], private investor. Please go ahead.

Unidentified Participant

Yes, my question is about the non-interest expense, you had that $26.2 million spike in the fourth quarter. Would you expect most of that to come back down in the first quarter?

David E. Hooston

Yes, we would.

Unidentified Participant

Okay, and then on your -- so pretty much a $26.2 million drop next quarter?

David E. Hooston

Well we expect it to normalize along the lines of prior Q2, Q3.

Unidentified Participant

Okay, and then on your adjusted coverage ratio, you have increased that to 40% and it was around 35% last quarter. At that time you thought it was pretty adequate. Do you see this going up to 45% or is 40% going to hold it?

Glen Wakeman

Well right now as you know these are model and formula driven and we think that the coverage ratio is a consequence of some of the asset value loss that we've seen on the island. The reason why we are hesitant to talk about go forward earning is because our worries about the continuing issues on the island. We think that the number is solid; our auditors think the number is solid, we think that's the right level of coverage for now, so we don't have a real point of view about whether or not it's going to go up or down or frankly just stay the same.

Unidentified Participant

Is that partly driven by, maybe your expansion of your options to consider selling some of the portfolio?

Glen Wakeman

But it's not really driven -- it's not really driven by that but that would be -- if in fact we were able to consider something like that and that generated a benefit to the company or albeit it an immediate period costs, we would consider that. But no it's not related, no.

Unidentified Participant

Okay, and then you mentioned that you have seen stabilization, I think more or so along the residential side, your residential NPAs, can you expand on that?

Glen Wakeman

Well we have -- they are at elevated levels, right. So we've implemented a whole series of loss mitigation and loan modification programs. In the space that we are in which is the $105,000 fixed-rate 30-year loan our delinquencies are almost completely tied to unemployment, job loss. So as we see stability in unemployment and/or reductions in job loss we see stability in the portfolio.

What we've tried to is make sure that these loans remain cash flowing. And so we've tried to develop programs and identify opportunities were we could find a monthly payment that's suitable for the borrower to sustain and I think that's part of what the recovery philosophy is and so far that's been -- that's been successful. We certainly hope that the employment loss abates and that there is stability. We certainly hope that, we try to manage the business to that but only time will tell us how that will bear out.

Unidentified Participant

Okay, so if you are seeing stability in the residential that then suggests that your uncertainty is more in the commercial side in that portfolio, is that correct?

Glen Wakeman

I wouldn't characterize. Sadly to say I wouldn't characterize it that way. I remain very cautious about either. We don't have a large commercial book relative to the other institutions. It is a more -- a little more lumpy and a little more volatile. We do have a large residential book in our portfolio if you look at the portfolio on page five and six it will tell you that. I remain pretty cautious about both.

Unidentified Participant

Okay, thank you.

Glen Wakeman

You're welcome.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of [Steve Bedowitz] with Simmons. Please go ahead.

Unidentified Analyst

Yes, my last question. On the U.S. side on the Mainland, not including Puerto Rico, provision like five years for now ideally is there any particular geography you would like to go into right now, you are in Florida, you have bid in New York or any comments about vision as we build in the Mainland U.S. what would you like to see let's say five years from now?

Glen Wakeman

Well, we would like to see more depth and breadth within the business segments that we currently operate. We have a good spread of risk. We would probably like to see some component of the one matter that we would like to see some component of some residential type product but we have a very robust greater New York area business with [Dalium] loans as well as other types of real estate. We have a very robust leveraged asset management business, we have equally a very robust property and finance business. So I see more work with our existing customer base, with some breadth and some depth aligning different fee-based opportunities alongside the credit based opportunities.

We are very cautious and careful about our lending practices and I think on the fact that we have the minimum non-performing assets in the U.S. as part of parcel of that. So we have overall growth constrains due to capital in our company. The more capital allocation we can move away from the island and toward the U.S., we think the better financial performance for our company.

So I think as we look out, we like the business segments we are in, we think there is still some runway in those business segments and we'll continue to be very careful and thoughtful about the credit we've built into the book.

Unidentified Analyst

Thank you.

Operator

Next question is from the line of Greg Greenberg with Wells Fargo. Please go ahead.

Gregory Greenberg - Wells Fargo

Upon deposits again, as far you mentioned the deposits, new deposits in the U.S., most of that on Doral direct online or is it in the branches in Florida and New York?

Glen Wakeman

It's mostly in the branches in Florida and New York. Doral Direct Online is somewhere around $200 million or so and that's a very, very price elastic product. So we're planning for that to shrink slightly. We are seeing really robust growth in our face-to-face retail branch network which is a really good sign.

Gregory Greenberg - Wells Fargo

Okay, thanks.

Operator

And there are no other questions queuing up at this time.

Glen Wakeman

I would like to thank everybody for their time and attention. And we'll come back and give you a report after the first quarter results. Thank you.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, this conference will be available for replay starting at 4 P.M. Eastern this afternoon and running through April 24th, at midnight. You may access the AT&T Executive Playback service at any time by dialing 1-800-475-6701. International participants may dial 320-365-3844. Please enter the access code of 322434. Those numbers again are 1-800-475-6701, international participants dial 320-365-3844 and the access code is 322434.

That does conclude our conference for today. We thank you for your participation and using the AT&T Executive TeleConference. You may now disconnect.

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