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Ormat Technologies Inc. (NYSE:ORA)

Q3 2010 Earnings Call

November 3, 2010 09:00 am ET

Executives

Marybeth Csaby - KCSA Strategic Communications

Dita Bronicki - CEO

Joseph Tenne - CFO

Yoram Bronicki - President & COO

Analysts

Ben Kallo - Robert W. Baird

Gregg Orrill - Barclays Capital

Elaine Kwei - Jefferies

Michael Lapides - Goldman Sachs

Lasan Johong - RBC Capital Markets

Steve Milunovich - Band of America Merrill Lynch

Brain Shore - Avondale Partners, LLC

Operator

Good morning. My name is Wes, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Ormat Technologies third quarter conference call. All lines have been placed on mute, to prevent any background noise. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question and answer session. (Operator instructions.) Thank you. I'll now turn the conference over to Marybeth Csaby with KCSA strategic communication.

Marybeth Csaby

Yes good morning and thank you Wes. Hosting the call today are Dita Bronicki, Chief Executive Officer; Yoram Bronicki, and Chief Operating Officer; Joseph Tenne, Chief Financial Officer; and Smadar Lavi, Vice President of Corporate Finance and Investor Relations.

Before beginning, we would like to remind you that information provided during this call may contain forward looking statements relating to current expectations, estimates, forecasts, and projections about future events that are forward-looking as defined in the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These forward-looking statements generally relate to the company's plans, objectives and expectations for future operations and are based on management's current estimates and projections of future results or trends.

Actual future results may differ materially from those projected as a result of certain risks and uncertainties. For a discussion of such risks and uncertainties, please see Risk Factors as described in the company’s annual report on Form 10-K filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission on March 8, 2010. In addition, during this call statements that may be made include financial measures defined as non-GAAP financial measures by the Securities and Exchange Commission such as adjusted EBITDA. This measure may be different from non-GAAP financial measures used by other companies. The presentation of this financial information is not intended to be considered in isolation or as a substitute for the financial information prepared and presented in accordance with GAAP.

Management of Ormat Technologies believes that adjusted EBITDA may provide meaningful supplemental information regarding liquidity measurements that both management and investors benefit from and accesing Ormat technologies liquidity and we are planning and forecasting future period. This non-GAAP financial measure may also facilitate management's internal comparison to the company's historical liquidity.

Before I open the call over to management, I would like to remind everyone that a slide presentation accompanies this call and can be access on company’s website at www.ormat.com under the web cast and presentation link as found in the Investor Relations tab. With that said, I would like to turn the call over to Dita. Dita the call is yours.

Dita Bronicki

Thank you, Marybeth and good morning everyone and Thank you for joining us. The highlight of the quarter is the electricity segment. Revenue were up 23%, production is up 20% and more importantly (inaudible) in public which move to start of constructions and there will be ITC cash grant is substantial.

We are planning to placing service approximately 120 MW by the end of 2013 in the United States. We will elaborate on these another developments during the call. I return the call over to Joseph for review of the quarter financial. I'll then update the (inaudible) of operation and following my remarks we will open the call to questions. Joseph, the floor is yours.

Joseph Tenne

Thank you, Dita and good morning everybody. We have included seven financial highlights from our company statements of operations and balance sheets in our earnings release and in the accompanying slides.

Please note, that some of the comparative figures have been revised to get effect to get effect to a rite of cost associated with project which we determined in the third quarter of 2009 would not support commercial operations. I would like now to review the main issues which effected of our financial results this quarter starting with slide 4.

This quarter that electricity segment have revenues of $83.4 million, $15.5 million increase from the first quarter of 2009. The 22.7% increase in the results is a result of additional generation and capacity with Puna, North Brawley and the Mammoth complex being the major contributors.

The increase in electricity segment revenues is also positively reflected by an increasing average revenue rate of our (inaudible) portfolio from $87 per megawatt hour in the third quarter of 2009 to $89 per megawatt hours in the third quarter of 2010.

In the product segment on the next slide this quarter revenues were $18.1 compared to $51.1 in the same quarter last year. We expect revenues and corresponding margins to get down from last years high and expect this which continues throughout the year due to a decline in product for the backlog from last years record levels.

For the third quarter of 2010, total revenues were $101.5 million compared to $119 million in the third quarter of 2009 as shown in slide six.

Depreciation in the quarter amounted to $23.4 million.

Moving to slide seven, the companies total gross margin was 24.8% compared to 32.9% in the same period last year. Gross margin for this electricity segment was 26.2% compared to 35.1% in the same quarter last year.

As anticipated the decrease in gross margin derived from the high cost related to the North Brawley power plant which increased the cost from megawatt hour in the current quarter compared to the third quarter of last year.

In the product segment, gross margin was 18.5% as compared to 30% for the same quarter last year. The decrease is mainly attributable to the lower volume of revenues in comparison to 2009 (inaudible) heights.

Moving to slide eight, interest expense net for the third quarter of 2010 was a $11 million compared to $4.4 million in the same quarter last year. The $6.6 million increase was critically due to a $4.8 million decrease in interest capitalized project under construction. Due to lower adequate investment in projects under construction during 2010 and increasing to this expense due to increase mix.

Moving now to slide nine income from continued operation for third quarter of 2010 was $32.4 million compared to $20.7 million as revived in the same quarter last year. The increase in income from the complete operation was 53 due to pre-presetting of $56.9 million, $22.6 million after tax. Which is equal to the difference between the acquisition paid fair value of the previously held EBITDA investment in Mount Pacific and the acquisition carrying value of such investment.

The increase was partially offset by decreasing operating income increase interest expense and increase capitalization mainly related to the cuts and gain. And on slide 10 net income for the third quarter of 2010 was $32.4 million or $0.71 per share basic and diluted compared to net income of $21.9 million or $0.48 per share basic and derivative for the third quarter of 2009 as revised.

The (inaudible) other impact of flows broadly on the net income in the third quarter of 2010 was approximately $4 million or $0.9 per share. The asset tax income after tax impact of the gain on acquisition of controlling into risk was $22.6 million or $0.50 per share. As shown in slide 11 adjusted EBITDA for the fifth quarter 2010 was $78.8 million compared to $48 million as reviewed for the same quarter last year. Adjusted EBITDA includes consolidated EBITDA and the company’s share in the interest factors, depreciation, amortization related to the company’s unconsolidated events contains risk in a 50% interest in the (inaudible) 2010. Cash and cash equivalents from operating activity for the fifth quarter was $20.7 million compared to $22.4 million from the same quarter last year. Turing now to slide 12, as of September 30th 2010 company had cash and cash equivalents of $49.2 million compared to $46.3 million as of December 31st 2009. The company’ slide breaks down the use of case during the quarter. Liquidity claim from utilization of revolving credit liaisons commercial bank then proceed from the issuance from senior unsecured loans and from the low (inaudible) as when as (inaudible) as case derives from operation activities that are used to find profit expenditures and repay long term debts. Our total outstanding debt as to the end of the fifth quarter of 2010 was approximately $721 million and will be repaid as presented in slide number 15. Also we present the (inaudible) that the revolving the bank credit will be paid in 2011 we expect to extend total lines of credit and have them available to generate corporate dues so there would be no actual repayment in 2011. I would like now to provide more details about OPC payment distribution that will begin in the fourth quarter.

In 2007, we entered into introduction through all of Nevada, our subsidiary to monetize production tax credit of Desert Peak 2, Steamboat Hills, and Galena 2 and 3. Those (inaudible) profit, in Nevada with affiliates of more than 70 and Lehman Brothers as institution equity and recourse in the subsidiary OPC LLC. Last year for Ormat Nevada purchased the membership into as [sell] Lehman Brothers for $18.5 million. Since substantial portion of the sale was accounts for fixed financing, the re-purchase is if the discount resulted in a (inaudible) of approximately $13 million. Now that we have received our return of capital covering our initial investment for the attributable cash flow is now available to the OPC investors, 70% of the cash is distributed to the third party equity in the rest was I think they will reach the target after-tax yield on their investment expected in 2016, 30% of the cash will be paid to (inaudible).

Moving onto slide 14. On Board of Directors approve the payment of a quarterly dividend of $0.05 per share to serve the company's dividend policy which targets an annual pay out ratio of 30 to 20% over the company's net income subjects to both approvals, the dividend will be paid on November 30, 2010 to shareholders of record as of the close of business on November 17, 2010.

And now let me turn the call over to Yoram.

Yoram Bronicki

Thank you Joseph and good morning everyone. I would like to began with slide six-10 with an update on our operational activity.

Total generation from our US and international client increased up to 20% or about 940,000 megawatt hours. Such factor that Joseph described, the generally good performance of our existing clients, the strong performance of the direct fleet and the addition of one more (inaudible) plan are contributed to this increase.

For generation in North Brawley was steady with the average net output in September being a little over 25 megawatt. This improvement has been achieved in part 20 improvement in solid removal which is lot a safeguard in the operating injection wells and partially by re-bouncing the flow into western field which was done by converting production else in projectors.

Our next substantial step will be opening up a new injection area to the east of the (inaudible). Well we started work on this in the third quarter at the bulk of the construction is taking place in the fourth quarter. As of today, we've completed most of the pipeline and expect to commission the injection lines in the second half of December.

We anticipate that this will improve our injection capability and allow a further increase in generation.

The next step will be to complete addition of projects. We expect this program to improve the financial performance of North Brawley and electricity segment.

I would like to move to slide 17 for an update on our projects under construction all of which may qualify for an ITC cash grant. The incremental expansion of (inaudible) in advance side construction to evolve some of the progress in the business aspect of the expansion and delay that we can see some benefit from the new equipment by the end of this year or an early 2011.

For a commercial operation we'll require system operates by HELCO and will occur later in 2011. The construction of Jersey Valley is also in full swing and we expect mechanical completion by the end of this month. And if it permits to operate and to available to a place and find it in service by year end or early next year. And you begin the sales or production wells or including injection wells have been drilled successfully.

We have secured most of required production. Given the elevation of cycle we will stop drilling for the Winter in (New Zealand) in this spring. As for the surface equipment we have made progress in equipping fabrication in our waiting for permit to allow field construction. Then we hope to begin next spring.

We have secured both production and injection for the first phase of (inaudible) and we need the power plant design. Field construction is only expected to begin in early 2011. In Mammoth we have started the equipment fabrication for the replacement of the old generating equipment with modern internet. The near equipment will increase the annual output and will reduce the operating cost of old PPA.

In parallel we have started the field development to the expansion facility which we have formally designated CD4 and today completed one successful production line. We expect to bring total generation of this complex to (inaudible) and final split between the current PPA and expansion will be determined by the business deals that we reach.

On slide 18 you can see the week(inaudible) status of project under development. In list we have conducted 3D cosmic survey is part of our joint aspiration program with the DOE. And our using the result in the production well that we are currently drilling. And we have updated in the previous, we have the rights of for the development of 8 grand up solar-photovoltaic

projects in Israel.

Because of the permitting profits in smooth change of zoning from agricultural land to land of solar development, the process expected to take a very long time given its possible to our current expectation [future] date. Yesterday we signed another agreement with our partner in the TV projects was a result of 22 additional MACRS a [boost] of installation. The advantage of this opportunity is it does not require zoning changes and therefore could placed ins serviced faster. Our share of this development would be 51%. Slide 19, in additional to approximately 300 megawatt under construction and development we have rights to a total of 30 meters 15 of which are already in inspiration. Those leases include the (inaudible) and is announced this week we will dissolve constructing operate to get with the advantage of thermal power. Our objective is to move quickly and drill this quarter so that we can complete the first phase before the end of 2013. On slide 20 you can see a recap on the product segment we are backlogging approximately $37 million. I would now like to turn the call back to Dita.

Dita Bronicki

Thank you, Yoram. Starting with slide 22 let me turn to simultaneous financing activity. (inaudible) in addition to the (inaudible) we plan to qualify to the maximum extent we claim for the favorable legislation available to our renewable energy (inaudible) we plan to utilize the available local (inaudible) and that ITC cash grant program. In September 2010 the portion of equity invested in (inaudible) with refinance we have been handled in $8 million cash grant we received under the AROA, our application for $350 million of senior secured construction in term loans with the DOE to finance (inaudible) McGinness Hills, Jersey Valley and Tuscarora it runs to the second stage, John Hancock as the lender applicant, top line with application was submitted in July and about 2 in October, the next step is new diligence and negotiation of a conditional commitment for long guarantee. Under the program the view we can full drive a longer on up to 80% of the project which would be subsequently reduced by caution of ITC cash current.

As Yoram discussed earlier the construction of the first phase of all three project operated. After completion of phase I we will affect the feasibility of the second phase which we believe could be twice the size of these project up to (inaudible) funded in 20 MW, each of the project has a 20 year purchase agreement is rather (inaudible) company. Further from the DOE and the cash brands we are at $142 million for senior unsecured bond offering announcing the work (inaudible). Perfect from the offline going delayed to (inaudible) and has been (inaudible) reviewed our corporate credit line.

Jumping on to slide 23, you can see we have an outlook for the final [curtail] of 2010. We are updating our guidance to reflect the development for the past quarter and arising below and of the expected 27 electricity segment or as a new to now be between $290 million and $295 million. With number of business include our share in the revenue of the Mammoth complex of approximately $6 million for the sales (inaudible) of 2010 which was accounted for the under equity method.

As to deposit segment over the news or we expect for the news of approximately $80 million.

In slide 24 you can see the CapEx requirement for the remaining of 2010. Our estimated CapEx need for the rest of 2010 includes approximately $136 million for capital expenditure on new projects and development or construction, explosion activity, operating forward risks and machinery equipment.

Our financial resources (inaudible) to make $272 million. Going forward we intend to reach the refinance probably (inaudible) with long term debt of up to $100 million.

I want to close by saying that the first nine months of 2010 has changed each (inaudible) but we have whether we are unexpected and complicated and we are a stronger organization because of it. We are encouraged for the results in the development for the third quarter and remain focused on our long term goals initiative.

Thank you again for your support, I would now like to open the call for any questions. Operator?

Question-and-Answer Session

Operator

(Operators Instructions). Your first question comes from Ben Kallo of Baird.

Ben Kallo - Robert W. Baird

Hi, good evening. (inaudible) should we see continued improvement in Q4 or do we really have to wait to the additional adjustment are drilled to see cost improvements.

Unidentified Company Representative

There will be just minor improvement a better hand on cost and slight increase in general but this is a big step, the big next step is really connecting injecting, injection wells.

Ben Kallo - Robert W. Baird

And the automation filters that you were putting and the automation, or does that finish now or do you have more work to do there.

Unidentified Company Representative

On the solid removal.

Ben Kallo - Robert W. Baird

Right.

Unidentified Company Representative

So the simple of simple answer to this is that there is more. There is more work to do, currently we have (cyclones) installed in all of our injections. So all of the injection is treated. But as part of the additional work we actually will move the (cyclones) into production so that we can get rid of solids before they even entered the plant.

But this is not the, this is something that happens if you like behind the scenes there are it does require some additional work. It is slightly different surface, there are (inaudible) true there is more work but it is not terribly costly and should not effect inject activity.

Ben Kallo - Robert W. Baird

Okay and then what do we need for broadly to be what level of production do we need to actually secure a project for the plan.

Unidentified Company Representative

I think that the answer is that we wanted to be as high as possible because it has big. It has a big impact on the caring, sharing capacity if you like for the descenso we would like to find that at a rate that is as close to the 50 megawatt that we believe the project could provide long term.

And we really wanted, we really don’t want to finance it with a lower to lower capacity.

Ben Kallo - Robert W. Baird

Okay and then moving onto the products segment. I have heard some things about some projects out there, they have out fees out could you give us a update on what you see specifically in north America coming up to 2011 if you expect any project wins within north America?

Unidentified Company Speaker

We are actually (inaudible) disclosed that we are working together on lighting dock which could be a very interesting project in new Mexico. Other developments to have disclosed some of them are (inaudible) but I have to say that I am comfortable I am not quite sure what has been on public domain and what has lot in - I am uncomfortable adding more on this without their permission but the raising there is some pick up, there is - it is likely for substantial projects to be released in 2011and of course we need to be competitive and secure at least some of them.

Ben Kallo - Robert W. Baird

Okay perfect I will step back in queue.

Operator

Your next question comes from Gregg Orrill from Barclays Capital.

Gregg Orrill - Barclays Capital

Thanks good morning I was wondering if you could come back to the average price for the quarter which I think you said was 89 versus 87 and the quarter last year just what’s driving there and also lift the - can you confirm whether the capital gain was in adjusted EBITDA thank you.

Unidentified Company Speaker

I’ll answer on the average price, the average price is really a result for the most part of which contracts contributed what to our generation, and so some of it changes with seasonality like some of our old SO4 contact, some of it would like the (inaudible) contract that it does change with [HELCO's] reported cost but most of them its really just the mix and so if we have strawberry generation out of at certain plant, it somewhat offsets or changes the blended rate compared to auto facility and so it is a natural number that is somewhat interesting but by itself I don’t think it tells much. And for second question the mountain of the (inaudible) $36.9 million and it has included EBITDA. That’s for (inaudible) guidance.

Operator

Your next question comes from Elaine Kwei of Jefferies.

Elaine Kwei - Jefferies

First question on the PT environment, we've heard a lot that its been very challenging in the win sector and I was wondering if you could give an update on just what you are seeing for the geothermal space if there is any impact there?

Unidentified Company Representative

So far we have not helped such an impact, you have to look at this maybe not by utility but certainly by state and I think that public told you can make sense in each of the states that have the RPS. Continuously learn from both of the success and less successful projects and so there are some changes, (inaudible) in California there is a project viability, matrix that was developed not very recently but its about a year and a half ago if memory serves and this means that each project beyond the price it is offered is also measures on its, what would its value be to the grid. In most cases we fair or we rank very well because we are based low and also because we are small and I think this is where the difference between (inaudible) and intermittent form of renewal energy but I said that this is one of the areas which comes into play.

There is of course the prosaic can be secured for the PPAs which is (inaudible) either the MPR or separate factors that are being used but again for projects that are located with good excess to transmission and that we can develop in a under commercially favorable terms we haven’t had a problem.

Elaine Kwei - Jefferies

Great, thanks so much and just following on you’re the joint development agreement with the new geothermal as far as the dealer investment in (inaudible) do you see this is impart of a more important part of the strategy going forward in terms of doing JVs and other potential acquisitions to (inaudible) up the portfolio.

Unidentified Company Representative

It is certainly, it is certainly a alternative that we will not shy of and I think everything has to be there is the general answer and then there is a specific answer and a specific is side specific, partner specific. In what I can say about the agreeing with Nevada to your thermal is that this, this is actually a very good place there is a lot of key elements for a successful partnership because they have a sight that we really to live.

We have good, a good working relationship that was developed on a Blue Mountain project and we could bring to that partnership our ability to execute and build a plan in a very friendly way and with long time collaboration in our mind. And they really needed somebody to help them move that project forward and they would need to poke somebody that could quickly execute the expiration with especially somebody that can provide this with power plant and will operate long term in a very reliable way.

And so you will have very good, you have the ingredients for successful partnership we need to work at it. But we have the ingredients and therefore this is a, an option that we would not shut it of. And whenever there is likewise project or prospects or likewise partner we are certainly open it.

Elaine Kwei - Jefferies

Great thanks so much.

Operator

Your next question comes from Michael Lapides from Goldman Sachs.

Michael Lapides - Goldman Sachs

Hi, can we just provide if we were looking at the projects on page 17 and 18 which ones of these are not under contract or not under PPA right now?

Unidentified Company Speaker

(inaudible) we haven’t find lot PPA (inaudible) we have not find large PPAs, everything else has the PPA with details that’s about something 17 and on page 18 our carrier we need to complete the PPA discussions it’s a rule now. We need to amend the PPA and then PPA installations are bit (inaudible) so it’s not exactly PPA but it’s a slightly different structure. I am sorry. (inaudible) I was trying to leave ones we don’t have so we are still to have the PPA and each (inaudible) as some are in between. I hope it answers your question

Michael Lapides - Goldman Sachs

No that I am very, very helpful. Second what are you seeing in construction cost trends like last six, last nine months in terms of just directional movements and what are cost (inaudible) facility

Unidentified Company Speaker

No I mean the over fluctuations along the year and in the cost there are materials but we don’t see - I would say generally flat

Michael Lapides - Goldman Sachs

Okay so still on roughly $400,000 keep that the range or something that’s directionally in that (inaudible) part

Unidentified Company Speaker

Yes with the qualification that we generally put on the difference between northern Nevada and Southern California and so on but yes.

Operator

Your next question comes from Lasan Johong of RBC Capital Markets.

Lasan Johong - RBC Capital Markets

Thank you, any chance you can give us a rough time that when you might start shipping equipment for (inaudible)?

Unidentified Company Representative

I can tell you what is the earliest, that means that this when we are going to start jumping. During the quarter there was a slight progress in the negotiations that in order to finalize the PPA in the sense that state order tangency has (inaudible) the call is that we are now almost six months ago. At that we were hoping to finalize the PPA in 90 day, it took six months to get the state audit agency to approve the tally and maybe it is now going to be a smooth (inaudible) to finalize the PPA. October PPA finalized, we always estimated a year to close financing. Assuming that we will talk shipping equipment about nine months for closing financing now talking about two yields (inaudible).

Lasan Johong - RBC Capital Markets

You start shipping equipment.

Unidentified Company Representative

You ask about shipping equipment, right?

Lasan Johong - RBC Capital Markets

Yes. So it will take another three and half years to start shipping equipment?

Unidentified Company Representative

Yes, but this doesn’t mean that we will not recognize the revenues under construction because the way we recognized revenues and projects under construction these may on a (inaudible) basis. So, revenue we will probably start to recognize six months earlier.

Lasan Johong - RBC Capital Markets

Understood. Generally speaking how much slippage in (inaudible) can you tolerate before the ITC tax grab money is out of reach. Because those were projects during 2013 I think..

Unidentified Company Representative

We claim to qualify Mammoth for IPC by the end of the year. As you there are two (inaudible) to qualify for the ITC cash grant, one (inaudible) the safe harbor incur 5% of deposit cost and the other one is do substantial construction at this side and in Mammoth we play to a (inaudible) and we don’t expect a not to comply within in time.

Lasan Johong - RBC Capital Markets

You need, did you complete the project by the end of 2013 and demonstrate commercial viability before you can actually get the money, correct?

Unidentified Company Representative

That’s correct we had to wait to complete the construction or by stock mechanization to place deposit (inaudible) by December so the first 2013. But this doesn’t seem to be an issue with the time that is available to us, it is three year from today.

Lasan Johong - RBC Capital Markets

Understood, but on your project sheet (inaudible) its causing a (inaudible) during 2013 may be I can ask the question a slight different way, when do you expect to put those in operation in the beginning of the year, middle of the year, end of the year?

Unidentified Company Representative

Probably 50% at the beginning of the year and 50% towards the end of the year

Lasan Johong - RBC Capital Markets

Go ahead please.

Unidentified Company Representative

It is actually it is only multi-year process monitorization of the old, not the old plants but the putting in the new plants in lieu of the old plants is something that will start earlier. And so a lot of this will actually happen before 2013.

And we certainly held no more.

Lasan Johong - RBC Capital Markets

So we don’t have to worry about what is with the slippage on caution on Mammoth that would Tax Grand being not qualifying for the Tax Cash Ground.

Unidentified Company Representative

We are always worried but we think that in Mammoth we are good position.

Lasan Johong - RBC Capital Markets

Okay, you mentioned that lining dots at Razor is a good project and I agree. But are you confident that I can pay for it. And if they can’t pay for it do you have recourse, I do take control and ownership of the entire project.

Unidentified Company Representative

I thank, I don’t know, I said that it is very exciting. Cause it will be in the first shift of thermal power plants in to Mexico. Even as the favorable, favorable place for Noble. Beyond that fundamental, I mean you have two elements are important than in geothermal power plant. One is a good surface equipment, good power plant designed and the other and really the most basic one is fair ability of the field.

And I think I think that’s the first area that needs to be proven this is not our job to do. But if you have a good power plant and if you have reasonable PPA or a good PPA and of you have a good field then there is no way that our profit can pay for itself one way or the other so really the first sale - I will go back the first two elements being the PPA on the field user questions that should have great - we know that we can deliver a good plan and with those 2 elements no doubt that you can pay for itself.

Lasan Johong - RBC Capital Markets

Okay so bottom line is you don’t think you will have problem collecting your - collect one way or another if something (inaudible) happens to Razor

Unidentified Company Speaker

We are not concerned

Lasan Johong - RBC Capital Markets

Does the M&A picture look any better now that the long terms outlook has improved but stock prices are generally still anguished and (inaudible) of other geothermal companies

Unidentified Company Speaker

I am not so - but there are good M&A [posisbilties] its the turn away of…

Lasan Johong - RBC Capital Markets

Okay PPAs do you see acceleration of signings of PPAs going forward

Unidentified Company Speaker

As a (inaudible) to the different - a little different question but see we have not accounted difficulties in waiting (inaudible) for project this related to get the PPA we have been in the recent year of a little later in the process to try to get the PPA because we wanted to have a uncertainty before we could mix to a PPA and we did not have a difficulty to get PPA so (inaudible) the total (inaudible) 20 fully in California didn’t pass makes the (inaudible) but some did of less appetite for PPAs in California go away.

Lasan Johong - RBC Capital Markets

Makes sense. Last question from me, BLM permitting issues and then deep bottlenecking. Are you seeing that really start to clear up, because I think you had mentioned last quarter that he is starting to clear up. Are you seeing good progress there?

Unidentified Company Representative

I don’t recall saying this, I hope it wasn’t me, but we don’t see any real change there.

Operator

Your next question comes from Steve Milunovich of the Band of America Merrill Lynch.

Steve Milunovich - Band of America Merrill Lynch

Could you comment on a couple of the expense line items, particularly R&D and G&A were down quite a bit sequentially, what was that due to and where do you see those going in the next quarter or two?

Unidentified Company Representative

On an annual basis I think (inaudible) expenses out plays in some cases changes because of (inaudible) but on some amount started to phase of advisors for example cost of acquisitions that they are now (inaudible) the cost but other than this no raw material changes.

Steve Milunovich - Band of America Merrill Lynch

How about R&D, that was down over 2 million?

Unidentified Company Representative

The treating R&D is and we will explain it in the 10Q is because we completed most of the production on the (inaudible) project so this quarter we have lower expenses.

Like with this (inaudible) level or going to move back up to previous levels?

Unidentified Company Representative

It will not be a delivers of 2010 going forward, it goes down in 2011. T0his is a unique project with the way as we said in the past once we get the acceptance of the client we will be able to implement the revenues of about $50 million. So its no cost associated.

Steve Milunovich - Band of America Merrill Lynch

Okay, that’s great and the personally of you talk about North Brawley having a negative impact on gross margin expected through 2011, could you quantify that and discuss is that going to be particularly in the first half of the year and then we see significant improvement or how should we think about that?

Unidentified Company Representative

Its clearly the comment was that its negatively effected us this quarter the same would be for next quarter and as we previously said our expectation was to reach (inaudible) in somewhere in 2011 which is still would still be heard for throughout the year. So we are not we cannot commit at this point to when exactly that given will occur but even if you assumed that it happens in this year then the impact will be noticeable throughout this year.

Steve Milunovich - Band of America Merrill Lynch

Okay. And then finally can you talk a bit about the competition with your binary products in terms of what you consider to be your competitive advantages and which competitors do you see most?

Unidentified Company Representative

There are competitors that which is we make the best equipment. It is we have offered to our customers, years of experience years of continuous improvement including break through and a lot of what of what our competitors do today are things that we have done 20 years ago and decided that there is a better way to do it.

And so if you want a real and operating, organic Rankine cycle power plant there is really one company to go to and this is us. Now off course you can explain many choices and people can make different choices and some actually both 25 years ago on plants that do not exist any more and also, recently. But that is I know a story about somebody telling his son he is not rich enough to buy an expensive thing.

Because a power plant is measured by its life-cycle cost and not and this for normal power plant driven by normal regions and this is what we offer. Now there is, there is a very long list of people that say that they offer organic Rankine cycles solution or that they would offer organic Rankine cycle solutions. I think that none of them is really bankable.

Many of them are really at irrelevant sizes for geothermal, you just can’t operate or it makes no sense to operate 20 megawatt power plant with 1500 or 300 modules and competition is always an issue but we are clearly the best of it.

Steve Milunovich - Band of America Merrill Lynch

Okay thank you

Operator

Your next question comes from Brain Shore of Avondale Partners, LLC.

Brain Shore - Avondale Partners, LLC

Good morning everyone thanks for taking my call, just a quick follow up on the Nevada geothermal (inaudible) deal can you talk a little bit more about what’s so attractive about that particularly given you guys have quite a bit of capital needs coming up and does this impact any other projects in your development pipeline and does it say anything about the development pipeline moving forward

Unidentified Company Speaker

It is told that we have a - that we have capital - substantial capital needs but it is also told that capital was not the limiting factor in our development and if we could bring more project to a stage of sort of construction we could spend more and also limiting us was the speed at which we can bring a project to enough of a grand stage of exploration for that we can (inaudible) construction. The (inaudible) project is not completed exploration yet I mean this (inaudible) but the reality is all of the discovery - the available discovery to bring terrific growth on the credit side that is very formal thing so that we saw, and to going another (inaudible) to the what we believe to be an impressive development portfolio that we have is always a good thing and it doesn’t help or doesn’t impact the rest of our construction and development plans. Its one more of a project which is expected to be a good project.

Brain Shore Avondale Partners, LLC

My next question, you guys obviously have several projects that you intend to qualify for the IT cash grant. Is there a risk that you are going to have to accelerate some of your capital spending to qualify on some of these project that may not turn out viable and accelerating the capital spending because of the cash grant.

Unidentified Company Representative

The way we have done, it is we may careful and responsible way. We believe that the way we have on our business all along. Expected the (inaudible) project to turn out to be not as claimed and they are (inaudible) project, doesn’t tell us it will be other for note down responsibly, I believe they have been and we are doing it also for the confirmation of this type of construction on the ITC cash grant. We have not taken a shortcut in ways of development and we have not started to spend money before we know that we have use for that treatment.

Operator

Your next question comes from Paul Clegg of Mizuho.

Paul Clegg - Mizuho

Backlog is down again this quarter and you talked a little bit on the call about some activity in the US market including in our RPs that may or may not have been disclosed. I am just curious if you have enough visibility on the end market of this point of sale whether or not you expect your backlog as kind of bottom downed here should we expect it start rising again next quarter or may be in a couple of quarters? And then if you can also talk about the direction of the product gross margins next quarter and the fourth quarter.

Unidentified Company Representative

You know that you are right, this backlog is down and even if some of the (inaudible) they sell in various proposal stages, (inaudible) stages etc we will materialize its weekly it to getting the products to the segment because if the backlog today is well achieved in the $30 million (inaudible) some of it will still be a believe by the end of the year and you take some time to decide to get in our bill till you can recognize the revenue, we will see a reduction in product segment revenue for the next few quarters and this will of course (inaudible) in the product segment. From an operational point of view it doesn’t have a impact on the company because we have our hands full, we've a construction (inaudible) for our sales and manufacturing equipments for our second sales so there is going to be some shifting from (inaudible) financial reporting so its willing to product segments of TVC so it will build up of deposit claims and equipment but the deposit segment itself will show it decline.

Paul Clegg - Mizuho

Okay. And specifically on the fourth quarter directionally with the product gross margin its been pretty variable on the past its been taught to predict but also (inaudible) you might be able to give us directionally whether or you expect it to be up or down in the fourth quarter.

Unidentified Company Representative

For the year before the segment, we (inaudible) allow the what we call normal for the segment margin which is not 2009 margin for the final yield.

Paul Clegg - Mizuho

And then looking for a little bit of clarification on the payout at OPC and the flip there and the structure. Can you I missed a little bit of that commentary, can you characterize the rough dollar amount impact on cash flows in 2011 versus 2010 and then can you just repeat when the flip actually happens.

Unidentified Company Representative

There are two fleets, fleet of the first (inaudible) and fleet of the ONLC. The important fleet is the fleet of the ONLC which occurred when the investors got (inaudible) on their investment. And I think that this is expected in 2016. The cash flip is already occurred, I think that you observed the flip.

Unidentified Company Representative

And we still get 30% of EBIT cost (inaudible).

Unidentified Analyst

And I am sorry what is the overall number then, I am just trying to estimate cash flow impact going forward relative to EBIT.

Unidentified Company Representative

No it is a couple of million a month.

Unidentified Analyst

Coupe of million a month, what is fleet deal only getting 30%.

Unidentified Company Representative

(inaudible)

Unidentified Analyst

And the fleet occurred during the third quarter.

Unidentified Company Representative

Fourth quarter.

Unidentified Analyst

In fourth quarter sorry and then one final question I may have missed this, but what was the level of megawatt production at North Brawley that equates to gross margin break even.

Unidentified Company Representative

I don’t have this in front of me.

Unidentified Analyst

Okay we can follow up offline then

Unidentified Company Speaker

Its - we have to prepare this for the next call

Unidentified Analyst

Very good, okay thanks very much

Operator

Your next question comes from (inaudible)

Unidentified Analyst

Morning thanks so your interest expenses I have seen little bit of a step change this year with McBrawley coming online I was wondering when is the next step change in interest expense would that be in 2011 when jersey valley comes online and what would the impact be should be so that (inaudible) cross 4 million in additional interest expenses annually?

Unidentified Company Speaker

When jersey is coming online other projects are (inaudible) and we have a lot of projects under construction as we are into 2011 so only the (inaudible) in 2011 we will not see decreasing in couple of interest (inaudible)

Unidentified Analyst

Okay and then on your agreement with Nevada geothermal is this a project where you will recognize revenue on the product side or is this going to be more build in our [freight]?

Unidentified Company Speaker

By end of the day when they become 50% (inaudible) we will recognize a revenue on the product size for 50% of the sale and 50% will be total decline in equipment

Unidentified Analyst

I see got it thank you very much

Operator

Your next question comes from (inaudible)

Unidentified Analyst

Morning thanks for taking my questions. Just giving the outcome from the midterm election and the heavily dependency on the ITC grants and also PDC production text credit. What do you see the chance of the ITC cash grant maybe got reduced or (inaudible) in near future and also for the PDC which will be renewed with (inaudible) be renewed. In two years what the chance will do or see that tax credit will go away.

Unidentified Company Representative

I don’t know if there is anybody who can answer that question with knowledge today. Our operating assumption is that low that are available today will be (inaudible) till there expiry date and we are not assuming an expansion for our internal claims of the tough credit bill beyond what is available today. We are more relying on the (inaudible) from the (inaudible) which we continue to create demand for new [being] object.

Unidentified Analyst

My next question, it relates to your the yield projects. If I remember correctly, it looks like you are pushed here the (inaudible) update for the Puna enhancement project and ready project through by a quarter to early next year instead of what (inaudible) is here. Am I right on that front?

Unidentified Company Representative

We are working on to startup this year and since we haven't started up and its less than two months less, to happen it makes less [trial] to the next quarter. I don’t think it will slip by quarter. It maybe a few days off.

Unidentified Analyst

Alright thanks.

Operator

Your next question comes from Carter Driscoll of Capstone Investments. Mr. Driscoll your line is open.

(inaudible). Your next comes from Ben Kallo of Baird.

Ben Kallo - Robert W. Baird & Co.

Hi, I have two follow up questions, first Joseph mentioned something about recognizing revenue on the (inaudible) I have been working for (inaudible) could you explain that a little more the time have on that.

Unidentified Company Representative

Upon (inaudible)?

Ben Kallo - Robert W. Baird & Co.

Yes.

Unidentified Company Representative

Yes, it is an R&D project so we incur all cost of R&D expenses but if each of them took (inaudible) of the process the projects will be accessed by the customer then we will recognize the revenue and since if we were to curious we (inaudible) much revenues going (inaudible) basic so once it is accepted and the customer is satisfied then we will we pay them (inaudible) revenue.

Ben Kallo - Robert W. Baird & Co.

You know if the revenue continue the off sale R&D as you did as a project and then what’s the timing on when you expect the sale occur.

Unidentified Company Representative

The sale should occur during 2011 to serve the second quarter depends when we complete and we get that fixed.

Ben Kallo - Robert W. Baird & Co

Okay, great. And then in the deal of Nevada geothermal you did a lot of financing of the initial project cost as you look forward in US there is some projects out there that you bidding on, are you offering financing on the product side of business in this so how are you going to do that with your balances are you going and to work with the third party or do you foresee that.

Unidentified Company Representative

I think that the right answer to this is that, this is not a typical, a typical thing that we do, but this would be the exception and not rule. The project has to be very specific and think that if I try to look at this from the other parties through the earlier party’s side.

For such thing to happen they actually need to develop a relationship with us that is similar with us that is similar to the relationship with lender that requires a lot of, a lot of supplying and a lot of internal information through the company and things that sometime could work with the supplier but often times would not.

And so I think that in most cases and most projects that is not what is going to happen. When there are already elements. The elements will partnership certainly with an amount of thermal or a very unique circumstances of project whatever you like it may happen.

Operator

Your next question comes from (inaudible) with (inaudible) Capital. (inaudible) your line is open.

Unidentified Analyst

Most of my questions have been asked and answered thank you.

Operator

And at this time I am showing no further questions.

Dita Bronicki

Thank you all I think it was an interesting conversation looking forward to continue with (inaudible) thank you very much.

Operator

And ladies and gentlemen that concludes the Ormat technologies third quarter conference call we appreciate you may now disconnect.

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