Seeking Alpha
We cover over 5K calls/quarter
Profile| Send Message|
( followers)

Cenveo (NYSE:CVO)

Q2 2014 Earnings Call

August 07, 2014 10:00 am ET

Executives

Robert G. Burton - President, Director and Member of Executive Committee

Robert G. Burton - Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and Chairman of Executive Committee

Michael G. Burton - President of Print, Label and Packaging Group

Analysts

Charles Strauzer - CJS Securities, Inc.

Lance W. Vitanza - CRT Capital Group LLC, Research Division

Kevin J. Cohen - Imperial Capital, LLC, Research Division

James Clement - Sidoti & Company, LLC

Operator

Good morning, and welcome to Cenveo's 2014 Second Quarter Results Conference Call. Today's host will be Mr. Robert G. Burton, Sr., Chairman and CEO of Cenveo. This call is scheduled to last approximately 1 hour. Mr. Burton will speak, and then the call will open up for a question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] Please note this event is being recorded.

I will now turn the call over to Cenveo.

Robert G. Burton

Thank you, and good morning. This is Rob Burton. Welcome to Cenveo's 2014 Second Quarter Results Conference Call. Today's call will be hosted by Robert G. Burton, Sr., the company's Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, and members of the senior management team.

Before I turn the call over to Mr. Burton, I'd like to remind everyone that certain materials covered on today's call are considered forward-looking and are covered under the Safe Harbor provision of the United States Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Also, any forward-looking estimates given on today's call will exclude any effects of restructuring, impairments and other related acquisition charges. For further details regarding these factors, please reference Page 10 and 11 of the company's press release that was issued last night.

And with that, I'd like to turn the call over to Mr. Burton.

Robert G. Burton

Thank you, Rob. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. And this is Bob Burton speaking. And as you know, I am the senior manager of Cenveo. I'm also the largest shareholder of Cenveo stock and a meaningful and growing owner of Cenveo bonds. As with our other investor calls, after our investor conference call and with our outside legal counsel's approval, I plan to make a purchase of Cenveo stock and bonds to increase my ownership in the company, the same thing I've been doing on all of these calls.

And as you know, we've been in a quiet period where you cannot purchase stock, at least I can't, until after our investor call. I recently had a person stop me in a grocery store and asked me why I wasn't buying stock. And I was explaining to him that we're in a quiet period, and he looked at me and just walked away. So I don't know what that meant. But we're very proud today, very proud of our 6-month performance of our different business segments. And keep in mind that all of our Cenveo profit centers are making money, and that's not a statement we could make a long time ago but that all of our business segments are making money.

We're going to continue to streamline all of our operations to focus on improving our margins. And we have also been streamlining our senior level managements in all of our businesses, including sales. We, as most corporations, continue to eliminate jobs that can be done by other already in the Cenveo organization, to include upgrading our sales staff as we've been doing for the past year. And this whole focus of finding better people to improve your organization has been a theme of ours since we've taken over.

Currently, we have 277 sales personnel. And I think they're very good. As a matter of fact, I think they're the best we've had since I've been in this printing and publishing business. But we still continue to churn the bottom 10% each year. And each time that we look at the results, trying to find better and more effective people.

Today, you will again hear from our senior management staff. The team is very excited about our future and feels very good about our growth plans for 2014 and going into 2015. Keep in mind, we have been preparing for this growth year of 2014 during the last several years.

I looked at some statistics the other day, and out of the 8 companies that I have a been senior executive of or have been the senior manager, only Cenveo has yet to deliver the stock price that I thought was acceptable. And I go back to our progress here as when we first arrived, the stock was a buck and change and moved up very rapidly, as we normally do, all the way up to $20. And then we had this mini depression of '08 and '09. And we continue to make progress, but we still realize that '08 and '09 leave us some room for improvement.

Today, on our call, we'll focus on the second quarter results and our outlook for the back half of 2014. We delivered what we promised during the last investor call on May 8. We have no negative surprises, only positive news today. We normally take a full hour to cover all of our important issues on these calls. Today's call will be shorter because I feel we've delivered what we forecasted for the second quarter. We don't have to spend a lot of time telling you why we didn't deliver. But keep in mind that on May 8, we were able to forecast and -- some $42 million or 14% ahead of prior year. And if you look at those results because of the fire check, if you remember, last time we chatted that I talked about a fire that we had, and we received a $2.7 million check. And that goes against us when we look at the earnings versus last year. But because of the fire check we received last year, the normalized EBITDA growth you're going to see is 7%, and it would be higher, I think, around 14% if we didn't count that. I just want to remind you of that because our earnings are looking better every quarter.

So now let me give you our report card that I like to do on these calls and highlight for you some of the major issues we had in the second quarter.

Number one -- it's always a great thing to be able to say this -- our total consolidated second quarter results were in line with forecast, and that's true. If you go down, and you look at where we were -- thought we were going to be and how we got there is basically is the route we followed and the numbers will reinforce that.

Number two, our net sales were $479.4 million for the second quarter. That was a 17% -- really, an 18% increase versus last year. Yes, 18% increase in sales for the quarter, which is terrific.

Number three, we achieved organic revenue growth of 2% during the quarter. And that covers -- includes prints, packaging, envelopes and labels. And the theme now and the real buzzword is organic growth. And we've been focusing on this for some time. But we had revenue growth of 2% -- organic revenue growth of 2% for the quarter.

Item four, our adjusted EBITDA for the quarter of $42.1 million, again, was up 7% from the second quarter of last year.

And item five, we completed the refinancing of our 8 7/8% notes and term loan facilities. This resulted in -- will result in the savings of $5 million plus of interest savings. And Rob's going to talk about that later on in some more detail. And I'd like to add that the Burton family purchased $1 million of our new 8 1/2% bonds during this last go around.

Item six, we expect to finalize the NEC consolidation efforts later this year instead of moving into 2015 as originally planned. And I could spend hours talking to you today about the integration and what kind of progress we've made. But there's been a lot of stops and gos, and there's been some dealings with the real estate people that were challenges. But the fact that we're accelerating this is a plus because we can get this behind us quicker, but it has caused some problems that I'll discuss later on.

Item seven, our print business that we've been talking about throughout the year and how proud we are of the salespeople that we brought on new and the sales leadership, the print business saw a positive momentum as our vertical sales continued to drive positive growth for the quarter. And we really feel good about our ability to deliver sales and increase revenues in the print business. Before, that used to be, then we called that sort of the commercial business, and we always were just holding our breath on what kind of progress we're making, but we feel very good about it now.

Item eight, our envelope business grew organically. We had price increases, and our direct mail volume more than offset the operational disruptions that I spoke about earlier due to the NEC efforts. After the investor call, we'll call these people something else at NEC. And I'd like to sort of speak to the employees there at NEC who are part of our family now. When we started this process, there were a million -- or not a million, 1,666 employees from NEC that were part of the Cenveo family. And right now, after we've been doing some of these reductions and close-downs, we have 1,000 new employees that are Cenveo employees. And if you remember back when you were in the fifth and sixth grade and used to go out during recess and you choose up your baseball or basketball team. And we all wanted to be chosen first or second, but no one wanted to be chosen last or not chosen at all. But NEC has just had a terrific great tradition of history. Their leadership in the family, really, from the management side was just outstanding when they first started and the years that have progressed. But they've experienced 2 bankruptcies. But we at Cenveo have chosen all of these 1,000 employees to be part of our Cenveo team. And we're going to now call them new members of our Cenveo team. They're no longer NEC people; they're Cenveo employees. And we're very proud of them. And we're depending on them to help us improve our margins. Our margins are -- EBITDA margins are historically in the 9.5%, 10% kind of range. And NEC's margins have been 2% to 3% to 4%, depending on what month or who was in charge of the business. And we're expecting them to move those margins up dramatically to catch up with us to give us the savings we need. And we know that's going to get done. And we feel very good about these individuals being part of our team and very positive about the outlook of the 1,000 new employees that we have. So welcome aboard, NEC employees. We're very proud to have you on our team.

And item nine, we're going to continue to focus on our cash flow, which we expect to show the benefits of our working capital initiatives and the timing of our cash interest payments that were negatively impacted by the timing of the refinancing in the first half of the year.

Item 10, the Salesforce.com that Mike Burton will be talking about later on continues, continues to be a major, major success for Cenveo and us having that tool to use to not only major our results, but to look at new business and how that new business is coming in.

We now have ranked, I guess, the majority of all of our people, maybe have a few stragglers, and that includes everybody. There's only one exception that we have there. And that person normally delivers $80 million to $90 million a year, and we call him Mr. Envelope. So we're not going to ask him to fill out a card, but he just does an outstanding job. But the sales success system has worked for us and worked for us very well.

Item 11, sort of a housekeeping announcement. During the second quarter, the Board of Directors appointed Mike Burton to the Cenveo Chief Operating Officer position. Mike was the President of Cenveo print, labels and the packaging group are the more profitable side of our sales business to include rebates. And Mike has been with us; he joined us with the Moore Corporation, and worked his way up to VP of International at the Moore Corporation. And it was part of Burton Capital and Burton Management. His business track record speaks for itself, and his results have just been outstanding. Mike graduated from UConn, and I always love to say this because of the leadership issue, he was captain of their football team; he's 37 years old of age; and he's now responsible for all sales and manufacturing to include the Envelope Group at Cenveo. And I'm confident that he will do an outstanding job in his new assignment.

We've also broken up the Envelope Group under really 3 managers now because it's so important to us and the EBITDA that were expecting. We've taken the wholesale group, which is about $175 million and given that to Paul Baker, who also runs our Nashua operation. And Paul was a financial person with Mike on all of his business, and we're very excited about his approach and the results that we need to get out of that group starting now.

We've also given Joe Burton the Quality Park business, which is $150 million. He already has the real estate and e-commerce business and also the health and safety measurements we have out in the field. And Joe has done a terrific job on the real estate and really, all of the properties we have been able to churn those and get high-quality prices for everything. And we're expecting good things from the real estate -- not only the real estate, but also from Quality Park.

Mark Hiltwein is going to be responsible for the direct sales, and that number is about $667 million. That's a big piece. But also in that number, David Law has $70 million, $80 million, $90 million or $100 million, which is his target in the $667 million, so that gives us some comfort of knowing we got an anchor there working with Mark Hiltwein.

So that's sort of how we've broken up that group and have a more focus. And we really feel it's going to be beneficial to us because we've had a lot going and a lot of movement. But we think these 3 individuals will help us increase our revenues and move us in the right direction.

So that's sort of my highlights and report on the second quarter. As I said earlier, we are pleased with the results. We feel good about it. It's giving us the momentum to go to the third and fourth quarter. And I will tell you, as you know, as we move in our business, it continues to get bigger. We're a back-half business and that's what we look forward to as a challenge that we have in the third and fourth quarter. And I'll talk about that in a moment, and let you feel the comfort that we have that even though it's a big number, we have a lot of outstanding things going on right now.

So as we have in the past few quarterly calls, we'll follow the same 1-hour format. But hopefully, it'll be a little shortened for more Q&A at the end.

And today, Rob Burton, our President, is going to give you an update on our completed refinancing of the 8 7/8% notes and our term loan facility. Then I'm going to ask Ryan Norwick [ph], our Controller, to report on our financial highlights for the second quarter and the first 6 months. Ryan [ph] is replacing Scott Goodwin today. Scott has an illness in his family, and he'll be back with us soon. But Ryan [ph] will do a terrific job as he has in the past. I'll then ask Mike Burton to give you some update on the sales organization and the field projects that are important.

So right now, we'll start with Rob. Why don't you give us your update, please.

Robert G. Burton

Okay, great. Thank you, everyone. Today, I want to provide some quick details in our Q2 results; our recent refinancing efforts; and a brief update on our NEC integration plan.

As discussed before, our second quarter results are driven by organic growth of 2% across our operations, including our print, label and packaging and envelope operations. This is offset by disruption caused by the acceleration of our NEC integration plans, which we expect to complete later this year.

Each one of our operating segments delivered organic growth during the quarter, which is the first time that has happened in a while and a testament to the outstanding job that our sales team is doing.

We recently completed our $790 million debt refinancing late in June. Our new debt capital structure enhanced our company's financial flexibility by extending our debt maturity profile, lowering interest rates by nearly 100 basis points and providing more flexibility to better position Cenveo to execute on our strategic goals. This is consistent with our ongoing approach to improve our balance sheet while being opportunistic when accessing the capital markets. We will continue to look to be opportunistic going forward as we will monitor the markets as our 11 1/2% senior notes become callable early next year.

A brief update on the National Envelope integration. Our integration plan is on track, and we expect to achieve $30 million run rate EBITDA by the end of 2014. Significant progress was made during the second quarter in terms of consolidation, and then we are currently in the process of consolidating 5 NEC locations into our platform. We are accelerating this timing due to our decision to reject a master lease after unsuccessful negotiations with the landlord. Despite the near-term distraction this has caused, we expect to be much better off longer term as we're walking away from a significant lease obligation and into newer, better equipped locations. We're moving out of 1 million square feet touching over 200 pieces of equipment, and we expect this effort to be mostly completed by the time we enter Q4.

To date we've realized little of the consolidation benefits into our P&L, and we expect to see more and more of this as we cycle through the year. In fact, we've been negatively impacted in some of our facilities that have been impacted. I use the analogy of moving out of your house. Now imagine moving out of 6 houses all at once. That what tells you what we're dealing with right now, but we expect, again, to be -- [indiscernible] By the mid- to late September.

Envelope finished goods inventory rent that we built during Q1 is mostly behind us now, and will begin to reverse itself later this year, especially as their consolidation plan concludes. We feel very good about our platform once we are complete as we invested millions upon millions of dollars into our platform into new world-class facilities and have strengthened our leadership position by being able to be nimble and offer our customers service and quality that's truly unmatched across the industry.

Operationally, we have dealt with 2 uncoated free sheet paper increases last September. As evidenced by our average selling price, we have more than been able to pass that on to our customers that we receive from the mills. We are actively monitoring the market to ensure that we use our purchasing leverage to drive down our cost of materials. And we have set up a global supply network to aid in that effort.

As I conclude my remarks, we are very pleased with our second quarter results and remain very optimistic that the momentum that we've built in the first half of this year will continue to build in the back half of this year, as the completion of our envelope integration, continued growth in the labels and packaging business and improvement in our print business will drive much stronger results. We feel very confident that we will see strong cash flow generation in the second half of this year as you see the benefits of our stronger seasonality; the benefits of the refinancing, including lower interest rates and the timing of accrued interest that was paid during Q2 will reverse; benefits of working capital initiatives, including inventory reduction; and lower pension payments given recent legislative action. While we've a lot of work ahead of us, we are excited about the future and believe that our results in 2Q are -- is another step that would demonstrate that our plan is working.

And with that, I'll turn it back to you.

Robert G. Burton

Thank you, Rob. Before I ask Ryan [ph] to give an update, you ought to be aware that he and his wife just had a new baby. And so if he gets confused on millions and thousands, you'll have to excuse him as long as he says the higher words.

So Ryan [ph], why don't you give us the financial update, please?

Unknown Executive

Thank you, Mr. Burton, and good morning, everyone. Today, I'm going to review our second quarter 2014 financial results; provide select financial highlights from the quarter; and briefly discuss the refinancing of a significant portion of our capital structure and full repayment of our unsecured term loan.

Before I do, I'd like to remind everyone that the results being discussed today include National's operating assets in 2014 and exclude them in 2013, given National was not acquired until September of 2013. Additionally, the results for both periods exclude the custom envelope division, which is classified as a discontinued operation in all periods presented or discussed given the divestiture at the end of the third quarter of 2013.

Turning to the key highlights of our second quarter operating results. Net sales for the second quarter were $479.4 million compared to $406.5 million in the prior year. The increase in net sales was primarily due to the acquisition of National's operating assets. All of our operating segments also experienced organic sales increases. Our envelope sales experienced an increase in average selling price across our direct and office product businesses, which were offset in part by volume declines in our office product business.

Our print sales increased almost 3% from the same prior year period due to vertical account wins despite 2 plant closures in the last 9 months. Our label group experienced increased sales of 0.5% despite exiting a specialty product line. Excluding that product line, our label group sales increased just over 1.5%. Our packaging sales were up almost 2%, primarily led by our international packaging group. Our gross profit was up $10.6 million for the quarter driven by increased gross profit from our envelope and print segments.

However, our gross margin continued to be impacted by National's lower gross margins. As a result, our gross margin declined from 17.1% in the prior year to 16.7% in the second quarter of 2014. We expect improvement in National's gross margin, particularly in the fourth quarter as we complete the accelerated consolidation plan during the third quarter.

SG&A expenses were up $8.5 million for the second quarter as compared to the same prior year period, primarily due to incremental SG&A expenses related to National, as well as onetime integration costs.

Despite the onboarding of National's operations, our SG&A expense as a percentage of sales was 11.6%, which is consistent with the prior year. Restructuring and other charges for the second quarter were $7.3 million compared to $2.7 million in the prior year. This increase was primarily due to our accelerated consolidation plans related to National, which accounted for $5.5 million of the $7.3 million.

Interest expense for the second quarter decreased $1.5 million to $26.7 million from $28.2 million in the prior year. This decrease was primarily due to a lower weighted average interest rate of 7.8% in the second quarter of 2014 compared to 8.1% in the second quarter of 2013. This is primarily driven by our 2013 financing activities.

Turning to our cash flow highlights for the quarter. We experienced a use of cash of $22 million from our continuing operating activities in the second quarter of 2014 compared to a source of cash of $3.9 million in the second quarter of 2013. The primary drivers of the changes in our operating cash flows this quarter were an accelerated interest payment of $14.5 million related to our June refinancing that was scheduled to be paid in the third quarter. As a result, we expect significantly lower cash interest in the back half of 2014 as compared to 2013.

We also experienced increased cash restructuring and integration costs as we accelerated our consolidation plan, and we expect to have lower cash restructuring in the back half of the year. We also continue to maintain higher inventory levels in support of our national integration plan. We continue to expect positive working capital trends in 2014 as we integrate National and focus on our working capital initiatives. However, our trending may continue to change as we manage through various business decisions, such as procuring supply in advance of price increases and reducing our envelope manufacturing capacity.

Cash paid for interest was $41.9 million for the second quarter of 2014 compared to $25.4 million for the same prior year period. We expect cash interest to be $28.6 million in the back half of 2014 compared to $49.6 million in 2013. Cash restructuring and integration was $7.4 million for the second quarter of 2014 compared to $0.9 million for the second quarter of 2013. We continue to believe we are on pace to achieve our original estimate of $15 million to $20 million of cash restructuring and integration in 2014.

Cash paid for pension and postretirement plans in both the second quarter of 2014 and 2013 was $3.6 million. If current legislation passed by Congress is signed into law, we expect our cash pension and postretirement commitment for 2014 to be reduced by over $3.5 million. And our expected cash obligations for the next 3 years thereafter, assuming all other assumptions remain consistent, would be reduced in excess of $25 million.

Cash paid for income taxes for the second quarter of 2014 was less than a $0.5 million as compared to a source of cash in the second quarter of 2013 of approximately a $0.5 million. Cash flows related to investing activities for the second quarter of 2014 reflect net capital expenditures of $7.6 million. We continue to believe we are on pace to achieve $30 million or less of net capital expenditures for 2014.

Cash flows related to financing activities for the second quarter of 2014 primarily reflect the issuance of our $540 million 6% senior secured notes and our $250 million 8 1/2% junior secured notes. Proceeds from these secured note issuances were used to extinguish our 8 7/8% notes and term loan facility, as well as pay-related expenses, fees and accrued interest.

We believe this transaction was in the best interest of our stakeholders as it reduced our future annual interest payments by approximately $5 million, significantly extended our existing maturities, removed all maintenance covenant compliance measures from our capital structure and should allow greater flexibility to address higher interest rate debt instruments in the future. Also during the second quarter, we fully repaid the remaining principal balance of $9.4 million on our unsecured term loan.

In closing, we continue to feel positive about what we are seeing across a number of our product lines. We believe the accelerated integration of National, while disruptive for at least 2 quarters, continues to be on track and should provide meaningful benefits to us in the fourth quarter and into 2015.

And with that, I would like to turn the call back over to Mr. Burton.

Robert G. Burton

Thank you, Ryan [ph]. Good job. Okay, now we'll hear from Mike. Mike?

Michael G. Burton

Thank you very much. As we already discussed a few times in the call, we're very proud of the fact that in the second quarter, we were able to drive over 2% organic sales growth versus same period in the prior year. Most importantly, every one of our operating units was able to show organic growth; it didn't come from just one segment. This growth is a direct result of an effort we started over 18 months ago; it didn't just happen. We've been focused on driving a culture of accountability: demanding that our 277 sales executives be better platform sellers. We want to be known as the company that solves its customer needs; not known as a commodity seller.

Through the use of Salesforce.com, we're able to track, measure and rank our salespeople from #1 to #277. We're constantly looking at individual's pipelines of both existing and new opportunities every day. In order to really drive home this behavior, twice a year every one of our sales reps are required to present their results, their forecast and their business plan to myself and the senior management team. This lets them understand the commitment from the highest levels of the organization, as well as clearly defining our expectation of every member of our sales team. Everyone knows where they stand.

Recruiting has also been a major emphasis for Cenveo. We continue to attract new sales talent of both managers and sales reps. What brings them to us is the ability to sell the entire platform. They may come from a background where they're able to sell 1 or just 2 products. Now they can work across our whole platform to sell everything, which we offer. We are setting to see real traction from these newer team members, and we have high expectations for these individuals in the back half of 2014 and well on to 2015.

Now beyond just better management of our sales team, we are constantly looking at -- to add new products and services to our portfolio. In May of this year, we launched our grand format division based out of our state-of-the-art facility in St. Louis, Missouri. Now grand format products include high-quality indoor and outdoor signage to an array of industries, including national retailers; now that's your pharmacy, your grocery chains; financial service companies, that's your large banks; restaurant groups and service companies with seasonal promotional needs. These are markets that we feel have a strong print demand for the foreseeable future. We refer to these units as relevant.

Most importantly, there is an incredible opportunity for us to sell this product into our existing account base, and we're working every day to penetrate deeply.

In closing, we've made an incredible amount of progress in the last 18 months, but there's still a huge opportunity to improve. We're looking forward to finishing 2014 strong and heading into a strong 2015.

Thank you very much.

Robert G. Burton

Thank you, Mike. Very good. Now let's talk about some full year guidance. As I did last quarter, I'm going to give you our full year guidance and then talk about the back half, and then we'll continue to operate this way as we have initially for really any year [ph] in the future.

So the full year guidance that we're going to give you -- I'll go through it once, and I'll repeat it again. We're still looking at sales of $2 billion. We think there can be a slight increase there, but we're hanging with $2 billion versus the $1.8 billion that we had before, which is about a 12.5% growth for the year.

EBITDA, we're going to hang in at $191 million -- or $190 million, that's almost 14% growth versus prior year. The margins, we're still looking at 9.5% and we're counting on the improvement of our new employees to help us move that closer to the 10% number. But the last year, we were at 9.4% and that we're hoping to move that on. But the 9.5% is the number we want to hang in with.

The capital of $30 million is still a good number for what we're going to spend this year. And the $60 million cash flow from operations, even though the numbers may not reflect it in your mind, we feel very confident that we build a plan here to get to the $60 million cash flow for the full year.

So let's talk a little bit about the back half of the year of 2014. And I look at the back half -- and we've had these discussions before -- look at the back half the same way as I did the first 6 months. We have so many moving parts. Not only with the plants closing and the startups, it's just everything that we have going as a company. And we can do a 6-month forecast, but 3 months is very difficult when you're moving equipment, as someone mentioned earlier, I know what it's like just to move across town. But you're thinking about moving multiple plants and closing them down, there definitely is disruption. I don't care how good you are, there's disruption, and it may take you a while to catch up.

So you should be aware, just to just remind some of you, that we have over 100,000 Cenveo customers. 100,000. And 55% of our EBITDA comes from labels, packaging and direct mail. And I'll say that again, 55% of the EBITDA from Cenveo comes from labels, packaging and direct mail. Even though we constantly talk about it that we're not a traditional printing company where you actually can determine what month the sales is going to happen or if you're a long-run printer.

When I was running World Color we always had the advantage of knowing the same way the other long-run printers do, [indiscernible] And Donnelley. You always have the advantage of knowing what your magazine revenues are going to be for probably 70% to 80%, because you know what the print run is going to be, and you know it's a monthly or a quarterly. So you can pretty well size what that hole is that you need to cover, or what can actually move around. And we have so many moving parts and closing down and starting these plants in the Envelope Group, and orders can fall in the third or in the fourth quarter. And I've said this before, and if you look at our historical revenue, our EBITDA and what we've done in the back half, 55% of our back half EBITDA historically fall in the fourth quarter. And 45% of our back half EBITDA falls in the third quarter. So our EBITDA has really become 2 forecasts. And that's what I've been saying all along, and that's what I'm going to continue to say. And that's how we're going to operate.

We have one forecast, which is for the first part of the year, 6 months. And that forecast is already behind us. And that's $78.9 million of EBITDA. And the second forecast for the third and fourth quarter is $111.1 million of EBITDA. And that gets us to the $190 million. So what I'm telling you that we feel both the third and fourth quarter will be strong, and we have detailed plans by profit centers to achieve our consolidated back half EBITDA budget of $111.1 million and the full year number of $190 million. And the NEC reorganization will be behind us as we come into these months very quickly, and 2014 will give us an opportunity to really focus on some other issues.

So what I'm saying is we're excited about the organic growth opportunities in the back half. And all our managers know their role in the commitment they have to achieve these goals that are the same goals that we're talking to you about right now.

So net-net, what I'm talking about that the 2014 back half forecast that I'm going to give you is the $111.1 million of EBITDA. We think that we feel good about the trending, but I feel a lot better about looking at $111 million number than trying to sort out when certain things are going to fall and with everything moving around. And you've seen our historical stuff, so you can make your own judgment on that. And if you want to chat with myself or Rob, we'd be delighted to do that.

So what I'm telling you, we're sticking to the full year number of $190 million. And to get that, we need to deliver $111.1 million of EBITDA, which we feel very comfortable that we're going to do it. The only question is how it's going to fall within the quarters.

So with that, we are pretty well on target and done. And operator, why don't you open it up for some Q&A, please?

Question-and-Answer Session

Operator

[Operator Instructions] First question comes from Charlie Strauzer of CJS Securities.

Charles Strauzer - CJS Securities, Inc.

Bob or Rob, maybe you can help me here. If you can quantify -- I know that you had some impact of the acceleration [ph] Of some of these plant movements. And hopefully, maybe you can help quantify the revenue impact of that for the remainder of the year, if possible?

Robert G. Burton

The revenue impact?

Charles Strauzer - CJS Securities, Inc.

In terms of like maybe the potential revenue that might have been lost from some of the movement of these plants.

Robert G. Burton

Gosh, Charlie, I think I'd have to hire 10 people just to figure it out. I mean -- and I'm not being evasive. It's just there's so many parts to that. I don't know. Has anyone got a better answer?

Robert G. Burton

Yes. It wasn't necessarily a revenue issue that caused this trouble. It's more -- mostly a profit issue. As I've said before, you're moving out of 6 facilities all at once, we did our best to try to keep our customers happy. If anything we sort of built up inventory first part of this year to do that. So it wasn't necessarily a revenue issue, it was more to say you're moving out of 6 facilities all at once. It's very disruptive to the bottom line. And we certainly made a comment that 4 or 5 plants lost -- actually lost money during the first half of the year because of that. So I don't think necessarily you'll see a revenue fall off during the back half of the year because of that.

Robert G. Burton

I think, Charlie, another part. We didn't lose any customers as far as being able -- the advantage of the size that we have compared to all of the other players, we were able to service our customers. Just as Rob talked about, we just had costs sometimes that were double costs. And that just causes you to affect your EBITDA. But with the revenue numbers were -- I think hung in pretty good. They just might have been later and some kind of concerns, but nothing of any significance.

Charles Strauzer - CJS Securities, Inc.

Got it. And then when you look at the organic growth that you had in the quarter, 2%. You said that the units all kind of showed growth. Are you seeing that trend kind of continue into Q3 here?

Robert G. Burton

Yes, it's obviously very early, and July is a tricky month in the printing industry. But our -- all the trending and everything we look at through the tool Salesforce.com make us feel pretty good about where we're heading. Obviously, September is a big month in the industry, and everything always comes down to that. But July is where we thought it would be.

Robert G. Burton

Another thing, Charlie, on that, it's really interesting how the business has changed. When I talked about where our EBITDA comes from, it's -- we don't have those stories of like 4 car [ph] books are going to fall back or it is -- we have so much activity in different segments now. A lot of this stuff has pretty well balanced itself out. And we've got a good feel, especially with the sales.com (sic) [ Salesforce.com ] on our new business that we've identified. That we are now in a position to sort of know where we're at with revenues on what's coming in, say, from one of our existing accounts that may have multiple orders versus new business that's coming in that we haven't had before. And that's been a big help and sort of gives us a level of confidence. When you look at that number and you look at the back half, and that's the way it's always been. You've got the holiday seasons that build in there. It just -- it's a number that our people feel comfortable with as we look forward to delivering the $190 million.

Operator

The next question comes from Charlie Vitanza (sic) [ Lance ] of CRT Capital Group.

Lance W. Vitanza - CRT Capital Group LLC, Research Division

It's Lance Vitanza. So just -- I guess, look, so backing out the favorable onetime items that occurred in 2Q '13, EBITDA was up 14% despite the disruptions from accelerating the interrogation. So it kind of begs the question, and I apologize if I missed this during the call, but what would EBITDA have been up if you hadn't had the disruptions? And how should we be thinking about that? And what does that imply for the coming couple of quarters here?

Robert G. Burton

Yes, I think that -- I can't quantify, Lance. But it speaks to the fact that we are talking about, "hey, this business is going to build in Q3 and more importantly in Q4." As we exit Q4, our Q4 run rate is going to be substantially higher than what it is in Q2. I think we're feeling very good about that. Again, when you weed [ph] out 6 facilities, it's millions upon millions of dollars of impact. But I think it speaks very highly to our prospects here as we, again, get a clean quarter here for which you probably should see here starting in Q4 what that number could be. So I think that's where we're sort of focusing as management.

Robert G. Burton

The other thing -- let me add a commentary, the fact that, you asked it -- we will know that, and we monitor all these costs in the quarter. But we focus on what we're trying to sell to the next quarter or the next customer. But we will follow up and look at those extra costs and see how they came in and what did they do. And we will have a feel for that later on. But it's impossible to do it when you come right out of the month. We just don't -- we don't hire people for that. Every person we hire has a job and we just don't do these double counting here. But we will know what it is once we've closed and gotten this behind us. Just to give you a level of comfort that we do -- we are on top of what those numbers could be like later on if we didn't have them.

Lance W. Vitanza - CRT Capital Group LLC, Research Division

Okay. One other question I guess I had is just -- could you give us a little bit more color about what you're seeing in the uncoated free sheet market? And what we should be expecting there going forward?

Robert G. Burton

Yes, it's a very volatile market. Obviously, this is a tricky time of the year for most people in our industry. It's typically the slowest time of the year. As you go into the summer months, there's been 2 announcements. We're doing our very best to beat it back as you would expect us to do, and it's sort of a moving discussion right now. And I think we'll know more probably as you get into the fall here, what really happens. You are seeing a fair amount of imports impact the cut-sized market, which -- doesn't have anything to do with us, but you are seeing imports play a big factor here. So again, we're passing on what we're getting, is sort of the point I want to make here. So what we're getting from mills, we're passing it on, and hopefully then some, to our customers. To sort of get back what we lost historically. But it's sort of -- it's a moving target as we speak right now, Lance.

Operator

The next question comes from Kevin Cohen of Imperial Capital.

Kevin J. Cohen - Imperial Capital, LLC, Research Division

I guess a few things, I guess very sort of high level, as you kind of move along further in the integration of National Envelope, where do you think envelope margins could ultimately shake out?

Robert G. Burton

Well, I think -- first of all, we need to get them equal to where we're at as a company in the 9.5%, 10% level. And that's going to be a major achievement. Because here's a company that's been running on margins that are sometimes negative and not making any money. So that's a milestone that we're going to be focusing on in the next couple of years. And you just can't get them overnight. I mean, it's a process of watching every penny and then looking at the focus and what we're trying to do. So I'll tell you, they will get better, but they're just not going to jump up and change from 2% or 3% to 9%. But what we are doing and what our forecast is based upon is that we'll have that kind of progress. We're not counting on those things to just jump overnight and be where they are. We are constantly communicating to the managers and to our own selves on how important that is as a company for where we need to be at and how we're going to get there. Mike, do you want to add something on the field in that -- the sales side? Everybody's talking about it.

Michael G. Burton

No, I mean, we're -- every day, it gets better. That's what I'll say about it. we've just got to get through this integration. You know it's been a compressed timeline because of real estate matters. So every day, we get through that and we put it behind us. And it's one facility at a time; one piece of equipment at a time. And that's how we're approaching it. But there's no reason to believe that they can't get to our traditional margin level.

Robert G. Burton

Yes, and Kevin, one thing I'll add is if you go back in time to the glory days, those days are long done, but we were doing probably 12% to 13% margins back in the day. And I think there's no reason why we can't get there at some point. It's just -- again, we're through a lot of brain damage right now, but I think once we get through that, that's the goal we're going to strive to achieve.

Kevin J. Cohen - Imperial Capital, LLC, Research Division

And then, Rob, in terms of the $30 million synergy commitment, I guess, what was the run rate as you were exiting 2Q? Just kind of bridging [ph] what's sort of left to flow through on that front?

Robert G. Burton

Well, there's still a lot to flow through, I think. I made the point in many plants we actually lost money during the quarter. So I think, to say -- the big number that we expect to achieve was the facility consolidation. That should be done mostly by the end of September, which you really didn't get any benefit of so far to date. So I'll probably tell you half of it is done.

Robert G. Burton

Yes, and that's what's needed to get the $111 million.

Kevin J. Cohen - Imperial Capital, LLC, Research Division

And then turning to some strategic matters. I know in the past the company has spoken about potentially asset sales. What can you share, I guess, on that front? I know it's a little bit of a sensitive topic, but anything you could share will be helpful.

Robert G. Burton

I think -- I'll speak first and let everyone jump in here. It's a process that's ongoing, and we're still committed to the process. Obviously, given the issue we're in, we don't have a lineup of buyers circling the block here looking to get these things. I wish it was further along at this point. We're committed to the process, and I think at some point here we'll have some resolution. Again, we're -- there's lots of balls in the air right now. We'd all like to be further along in the process. But again, we're still committed to seeing these things through.

Robert G. Burton

And I'll add, too, that we've been in the acquisition business for a long time. We're focused on paying down debt and doing all these other things, but we're very cognizant of the fact that there are organizations out there that can fit in with ours. And when you look at businesses that are making 20% or 30% margins, we're going to definitely be buyers or being people out there talking to trying to increase our business in the label business, in the packaging business -- businesses that we know have those kind of margins. I think -- just recently, one of our plants just had a record-type margin above 30%. And so we're still a player. We still -- we've done about 74 acquisitions. And see, it just takes a long time, and you just can't get them done overnight. And hopefully, we're going to have some that'll -- that we can do that are going to have a major impact upon us.

Kevin J. Cohen - Imperial Capital, LLC, Research Division

And then going back to the envelope business, I guess on the flip side of cost synergies. From a revenue standpoint, I guess, can you sort of anecdotally sort of highlight sort of where you are in this process of raising prices and sort of what percentage of your customers still haven't yet sort of been marked-to-market, if you will? What can you kind of share on that front kind of looking forward on the price-side [ph] traction front?

Robert G. Burton

Yes, I think I made a comment that we've been able to pass everything we've gotten from the mills. I think it's a negotiation -- like we said before, we have 100,000 customers. So you can only imagine the conversations that we're having. And again, it is a cost we're actually being impacted by. So it's something we're definitely pushing. But we're not going backwards. If anything we're making progress on it, Kevin, and I think there's definitely some lags here as contracts come up as well. So I think, hopefully, as you get into the back half of the year, that would be mostly passed on by then.

Robert G. Burton

And, Kevin, I would tell you, there are discussions that are ongoing with a lot of our envelope players of looking at the value of the customers and what kind of margins we're getting from these customers and where we have space to do this work and what kind of business should we be doing and how do we improve our margins? And that's part of it, is selection of customers, and when and how we're doing that business. So the thing that Rob mentioned, all the price increases we pass through. And we are -- have an ongoing process of looking to add different customers, and we never talked about it this way, and most people haven't in the industry. But looking at the most profitable customer and how we best utilize those people in our future versus someone who may have a much lower margin are not as good as some of the others.

Kevin J. Cohen - Imperial Capital, LLC, Research Division

And then just last -- 2 last real quick questions. I guess the exchange of about $3 million of the 7% converts about 1 million shares. Can you give us a little bit of color on that? And should we expect anything further on that front?

Robert G. Burton

What was the question?

Robert G. Burton

I'll answer. I think the answer -- again, we were approached, and we made a decision given that it was free cash -- I'm sorry, free cash flow neutral to us to make that decision to do that. Again, we were -- someone called us up, we didn't call them. And it's something, hey, we took a hard look at it, and it made strategic sense for us.

Robert G. Burton

But that was a one-off thing that we did.

Robert G. Burton

Exactly. It's one-off transaction that, hey, it was approached by a holder of ours.

Kevin J. Cohen - Imperial Capital, LLC, Research Division

And then the last question, the Salesforce.com sort of measurement tool for your sales force numbers 1 through 277. Is that something that the company has been using historically or is that new?

Michael G. Burton

It's new in the last 2 years. We've actually -- believe it or not, we've won an award recently from Salesforce for how quickly we've implemented it. It's really about top-down, bottom-up [ph] management. So it's something that we've really -- we brought on 2 years ago, but we've improved dramatically. And we're really utilizing it at a level of someone in their fifth or sixth year.

Robert G. Burton

And most of major corporations in America...

Michael G. Burton

You look at the Fortune 100, Fortune 500, there's a vast majority of them are using a tool, whether it's Salesforce or someone else. And it's just a matter of how you use it. And the way that we do it is unique, really top-down.

Operator

The next question will come from Jamie Clement of Sidoti.

James Clement - Sidoti & Company, LLC

Bob, it was not a huge point of emphasis on the call, perhaps because of their history of success over the last couple of years. But the packaging and labels businesses that you have, obviously, they've done a good job over the last couple of years. Can you give us a little bit of a state of the union on where those stand and where you see those going?

Robert G. Burton

Well, I'll tell you, there's no one who can do it better than the guy who's responsible for it. I'll let Mike jump in here. Mike?

Michael G. Burton

Yes, label and packaging for us...

Robert G. Burton

Has done great.

Michael G. Burton

...is a growth segment. And it's really based on vertical markets. Our label business is really two-pronged; we have our custom label business, which really services 30,000 plus consumers on a day-in and day-out basis, distributors, et cetera. And that's one that's growing. And typically, I think our competitors in that marketplace are flat, probably down a little bit. And we're taking share. We're looking at new ways to increase our revenues through e-commerce tools. So that business has been really solid under good leadership of Mike Mazur. Our longer-run label business is where we have an opportunity to get some real market share gains: that's your prescription drug, that's your transportation logistic; that's your grocery store label business. So that's one we're really looking to emphasize our sales team and really start to grow the topline there. The packaging side, we talked about the fire and what that meant for us. A lot of turmoil last year; put us through a lot of problems that we've worked -- worked through them at the end of last year. But now we're focused on some key vertical markets, really health and beauty, and tobacco and e-cigarette. And you think about some of those markets and the fact that the opportunities there are large. And we've really partnered strategically with some players that we think are going to take us far. And really, but more importantly, these customers that you're dealing with on the label and packaging side have commercial print needs; they also have envelope needs. And our next step forward, really, for the label and packaging group is to offer the platform and really push it through. But overall, a quick state of the union is things are good. Things are good. They can always get better. And I think you'll start to see some really good comps in the back half of 2014.

Robert G. Burton

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. We -- to summarize, we plan to have a very good back half, and we are focused on achieving $190 million and the $60 million of cash flow. Thank you, and have a good day.

Operator

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

Copyright policy: All transcripts on this site are the copyright of Seeking Alpha. However, we view them as an important resource for bloggers and journalists, and are excited to contribute to the democratization of financial information on the Internet. (Until now investors have had to pay thousands of dollars in subscription fees for transcripts.) So our reproduction policy is as follows: You may quote up to 400 words of any transcript on the condition that you attribute the transcript to Seeking Alpha and either link to the original transcript or to www.SeekingAlpha.com. All other use is prohibited.

THE INFORMATION CONTAINED HERE IS A TEXTUAL REPRESENTATION OF THE APPLICABLE COMPANY'S CONFERENCE CALL, CONFERENCE PRESENTATION OR OTHER AUDIO PRESENTATION, AND WHILE EFFORTS ARE MADE TO PROVIDE AN ACCURATE TRANSCRIPTION, THERE MAY BE MATERIAL ERRORS, OMISSIONS, OR INACCURACIES IN THE REPORTING OF THE SUBSTANCE OF THE AUDIO PRESENTATIONS. IN NO WAY DOES SEEKING ALPHA ASSUME ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY INVESTMENT OR OTHER DECISIONS MADE BASED UPON THE INFORMATION PROVIDED ON THIS WEB SITE OR IN ANY TRANSCRIPT. USERS ARE ADVISED TO REVIEW THE APPLICABLE COMPANY'S AUDIO PRESENTATION ITSELF AND THE APPLICABLE COMPANY'S SEC FILINGS BEFORE MAKING ANY INVESTMENT OR OTHER DECISIONS.

If you have any additional questions about our online transcripts, please contact us at: transcripts@seekingalpha.com. Thank you!

Source: Cenveo's (CVO) CEO Robert Burton on Q2 2014 Results - Earnings Call Transcript
This Transcript
All Transcripts