Crosstex Energy, Inc. (XTXI)
November 15, 2011 8:30 am ET
Executives
Michael J. Garberding - Chief Financial officer and Senior Vice President
Unknown Executive -
Barry E. Davis - Chairman, Chief Executive Officer, President, Chief Executive Officer of Crosstex Energy GP LLC, President of Crosstex Energy GP LLC and Director of Crosstex Energy GP LLC
Analysts
Unknown Analyst
Barry E. Davis
And thank you, guys, for being here this morning. For those of you who've been tracking us for the last several years, you may notice that Bill Davis is not here today. And Bill, who has been our Chief Financial Officer for the last 10 years, is back at the office, doing things that Chief Operating Officers now do, so chasing lots of opportunities and fixing problems and taking advantage of opportunities. But Mike Garberding, who has been our CFO now for the last couple of months, is here and we look forward to taking your questions and answers here later. My goal here this morning really is just to update you and kind of set you up for a discussion that we can have in the Q&A section. And what I'd like for you to hear is that 2011 has continued to be a year of great progress for the company. Our strategic asset positions, continue to perform exceedingly well, providing strong results and growth. And as a result, we are extremely well positioned as a company to participate in what we think is the best industry environment that we've ever seen.
Year-to-date EBITDA is tracking to the high end of our guidance, which would represent approximately 15% growth year-over-year. We've made strategic low-risk, high-return steps to expand our asset base with new positions in 2 very active resource development plays, as well as a significant expansion in our processing and NGL business. We continued to de-risk our business with approximately 70% of our gross margin generated by fee-based services and they are not influenced by commodity price.
We've achieved our targeted debt-to-EBITDA of under 4x, 4.0x. We have a strong liquidity position with over $300 million currently available on our revolver and we've increased our return to our unitholders by approximately 24% since the third quarter of 2010 with significant excess coverage of 1.43x year-to-date.
Some of the things that we'll talk about here today will be forward-looking statements, and as such, we -- actual results may differ materially from our forecast. As you will hear us say frequently, we are strategically positioned for reliable performance from our existing assets and well positioned for long-term sustainable growth.
We began this year with assets in 3 core operating areas, and I'll start by describing those and remind you of our positions, starting in the middle of the page with our North Texas asset. We have approximately 840 miles of pipeline, 3 processing plants with just under 300 million cubic feet of capacity and 2 treating plants. We're one of the leading midstream providers in the Barnett Shale, currently handling just under 20% of the volume that's produced in the play.
Moving into our Louisiana Intrastate Gas system or LIG as we describe it, it is one of the largest intrastate pipelines in the State of Louisiana with over 2,100 miles of pipe. We move just under 900 million cubic feet a day. We have 2 gas processing plants and 2 treating plants that basically make the gas marketable on the system. The LIG system is a true wellhead [indiscernible] system. We basically aggregate gas throughout the state, deliver it to market and to other interconnected pipelines, a very strategic asset in the overall Louisiana marketplace.
Moving into our processing and NGL business, an area that certainly has had lots of attention recently because of the opportunities and the growth that we're seeing in the liquids business. We have 4 processing plants with little over 2 BCF of capacity. We have 3 fractionators which are currently in the process of being expanded with our Cajun Sibon project to increase total capacity to about 97,000 barrels per day. We have 440 miles of NGL pipelines that basically interconnect these fractionators to our processing plants and then deliver the product directly into the Gulf Coast markets.
So those were our 3 positions that have essentially provided the great results that we've seen over the last several quarters and positioned us for growth outside those footprints. This year, in fact, in just in the last 3 or 4 months, we've made strategic steps into other resource plays, starting with the Eagle Ford. Earlier this year, we made an investment and a partnership with Howard Energy Partners for a strategic position in the southwest portion of the Eagle Ford play. Along with Howard Energy and Quanta Resources, we formed Howard Energy Partners and acquired 250 miles of existing pipeline to essentially provide us a platform from which to grow in the Eagle Ford and beyond through the Howard Energy investment.
Moving into the Permian. Just in the last 90 days or so, we formed a 50-50 joint venture with Apache to provide strategic infrastructure that they needed to keep up with their rapid development in the Permian. This is a very strategic partnership for us, in that Apache is one of the leading producers in the Permian, one of the most active players. Through their development, their forecast was that they would exceed existing infrastructure that was provided by other third party midstream companies. And we were, again, very successfully able to convince Apache that this would be a great fit for us and them to work together. We're currently building a 20-million-a-day refrigeration plant that will be followed by a 50-million-cubic-feet-a-day cryogenic plant and then the infrastructure that is required to essentially take the NGLs off of that plant through our Mesquite terminal to get them to the market.
So another strategic step-up for us. We obviously didn't make our Permian investment without it -- without expectation that there would be multiple steps of growth beyond that position, and we're currently working very hard to realize the other opportunities that we see in the Permian.
Moving lastly to our crude position. We actually have recognized an opportunity via the assets that we have on the Gulf Coast of Louisiana to essentially bring stranded crude from around the country that is being rapidly developed in some of the resource plays, such as the Permian, bring those by rail into our Eunice and Riverside facilities. The opportunity that's there: one, it allows a way out of the production area by certain producers who can't get crude out; secondly, it allows us to take advantage of the differential between a WTI-type pricing to a Brent pricing that you see on the Gulf Coast of Louisiana or the Louisiana-like suite, which has a tendency to track the Brent pricing very closely.
So with that differential we see today, we're actually able to pay the cost of transportation via rail into our offloading facility. We've expanded our facilities to have storage and offloading for crude in addition to the NGL services that we provide. We will then deliver this crude directly into the St. James market and provide better netback for our producers and good margins for us for the service that we provide. So we're really excited about the opportunities that we see in the crude and this is kind of a first step there. This really is a much more strategic step than just providing the crude service. We think that this is the beginning of us really expanding the services that we provide to our producers. Our company has always been in the business of getting producers' product from where they produce it at the wellhead to the market. Historically, that has been primarily focused on natural gas and natural gas liquids and processing and treating. We really believe in today's market. The services that we provide has to cover all products because in the unconventional resource plays, you're generally seeing a dry gas or wet gas and a crude window that we need to be able to provide those services across all segments.
All in, our facilities handle approximately 6% of the gas produced in the United States today with a little over 3 BCF of volume handled.
Just a little bit of a snapshot of where we are today as a company on this slide, Slide 5. As you can see, we started the year, and year-to-date, our results are essentially 3 operating areas. Our North Texas represents approximately 47% of our operating cash flow, LIG is approximately 35% and then remaining PNGL is 18% of our cash flow. I think this is a good place to really demonstrate what we wanted to do when we started talking about increasing scale and diversification as a company which was -- about 24 months ago, we felt like that was a real objective for us.
Our objective is, over time, to increase the scale significantly of the company, thereby, decreasing risk and then also diversifying the company. We've made great progress this year in doing that, essentially adding 3 new operating divisions and so in this slide a year from now would represent essentially 3 more operating areas and a reduction of concentration, if you will, from what you see here.
Our year-to-date adjusted EBITDA is $159.4 million, distributable cash flow right at $90 million. As I've said earlier, this is tracking to the high end of our guidance, which would represent about a 15% year-over-year growth. Our distributions, we're currently at $0.31 on XTEX and $0.10 on XTXI. We have increased our distribution from the third quarter of last year by approximately 25%, and we are currently covering at 1.43x, so a significant excess coverage and a very conservative approach to the handling of our distributions and dividend.
One of the things that -- I'll just spend a few minutes here talking about our assets. As you look at the bottom of the page, some of the key performance drivers for us, we've continued to see very good results in the Barnett Shale. The Barnett today has approximately 60 rigs running and that would be substantially down from, say, where were at the peak of 185 rigs or so. The good news is we've continued to see volumes grow in the Barnett, much like we are in other plays as we've seen rigs come down. And the reason for that is the efficiency of the rigs. We're currently now down to about 13 days to drill and complete a well. That compares to just 3 years ago at about 30 days. So substantial increase in efficiency on the rigs. Secondly, we continue to see performance of the wells increase and so we're simply getting more results from less activity that we see in the Barnett. Good news for us is we have seen significant volume increases year-over-year in 2011 over 2010. Our forecast currently is about a flat volume on average for 2012. I think that would track consistently with what the major producers in the Barnett Shale have said and that is that they intend to kind of maintain production in this gas price environment. Approximately 2/3 or a little more of the Barnett is dry gas, and so we have seen activity levels decline some because of that.
Moving over to LIG. We -- again, LIG is really a franchise asset. It's been a company maker for us, an asset that we've grown from about $12 million a year of EBITDA to the last 3 years it's tracked at about $85 million. So terrific growth around the LIG system.
The Haynesville Shale development 3 years ago was a very strategic development for us on the LIG system. Importantly, we moved quickly and effectively to get our share of that business and it's really served us well. We continue to have -- essentially, all of our firm transportation capacity is sold out with an average life of about 4.5 years remaining on those contracts.
Recently, we have seen a couple of plays that it is very early stage, but we think could be possibly kind of the next Haynesville as it relates to the Louisiana, the LIG system. And that is the Tuscaloosa Marine and the Austin Chalk plays. In the State of Louisiana, it's essentially right in the middle of the sate. In fact, I'll go back a slide. On the LIG system, we've got it labeled as essentially right in the middle of the state or about where our system that makes an x comes together. We are extremely well positioned with the LIG system to aggregate the gas there that we would anticipate being rich gas and then take it into either our LIG processing plant or down into our PNGL asset on the Gulf Coast.
I would emphasize it's a great opportunity, but it is very early days. We're just now seeing the first wells drilled and we'll see if it develops to be what we hope it to be.
Moving down into our PNGL business. What that represents for us really is the capability and an opportunity to take advantage of a current -- really big development in the NGL business. We have unutilized capacity on our fractionators so we can provide immediate interim solutions for producers by essentially trucking, railing or barging a product in for fractionation. We're doing that now in the Marcellus. We're providing an interim solution for Marcellus barrels basically coming in by barge. We're also actually coming in by rail. We're also going to provide a solution for the Permian liquids. We're trucking liquids from pretty good distances currently just because the need is so great. So it's a really good interim solution. Long term, we've made a very strategic step with our announcement recently of our 130-mile expansion of our asset over into the Mt. Belvieu area.
So essentially, we believe that throughout the United States, all of the liquids are eventually going to have an opportunity to get to Mt. Belvieu via the new pipelines that have been announced in recent days. So it would be very strategic for us to have essentially a straw over into the raw make or the unfractionated products of Mt. Belvieu, pulling it over into Louisiana, fractionating in our facilities which are sitting in the backyards of the consumer. Our facilities were built originally to take offshore production, process it, fractionate it and deliver it right into the petrochemical and refinery market. As we've seen the Gulf of Mexico decline, we've essentially been supply short. So we're now fixing that problem by going to Mt. Belvieu, getting supply, bringing it to the market and fractionating it in their backyard. So that's essentially what we're doing with our Cajun Sibon project.
I've explained, in fact, on Slide 6, much of these, so let me just quickly hit some of the highlights. Cajun Sibon, as I've just described, will be completed in the first half of 2013. Midpoint of our current estimate on cost is about $200 million. This project, because we're able to use existing facilities and are essentially expanding, it has outsized returns. We expect the returns on it to be in the high teen, which is a really strong return for a project of this size.
Moving into the Permian Basin, we have there approximately $85 million that will be invested 50-50 with Apache. In fact, our total share of that will be just under $60 million because we're investing in the -- the Mesquite terminal will be 100% owned. There again, we expect that to be a high-teens return. The project will start in the first quarter of next year or actually -- yes, the first quarter of next year. Right after the first of the year, we expect the first plant to be on and then it will grow as we bring on the cryogenic plant midyear and the volumes continue to grow.
Our Eagle Ford expansion, we acquired just 120 days ago. We've already doubled the volume on the system, so we saw some real opportunities early on to expand the system by a 30-mile, 12-inch pipe that brought some new volumes to us. We expect to see significant cash flow relative to our investment, again, probably high teens of return-type cash flow by the middle of 2012. So this will be, we think, a very high-return investment also.
Lastly, the crude terminals, really represent a very small investment, a couple of million dollars to enhance our facilities in Phase 1. That will allow us to take in about 5,000 to 6,000 barrels per day. The range of margins is pretty wide at this point because of not really being able to predict what the WTI to the Brent margin is going to be. Essentially, the structure we have is a fee-based structure to get a return on our investment and then we participate in the margin that is available between essentially the production area and our facility. So we've essentially got a nice return plus upside by participating in the margin.
We do have an expansion of our Riverside facility that we expect to accomplish by the middle of 2012. That would be an additional 8,000 barrels a day, essentially taking advantage of the same opportunity to bring crude into South Louisiana. And then a third expansion that could be accomplished by the middle of 2013 which would even go higher as far as the volume. That project is still in the very early days and so we're not putting a CapEx or return potential on that.
So terrific progress as a company. Those of you that have been tracking us, particularly since the bond offering in the beginning of 2010, it's been a great 24 months. Our bonds are trading extremely well, depending on what they look at. I guess the last 60 days have been pretty volatile, but we appreciate your support and look forward to our conversation that we'll now continue with any questions that you may have. Mike, you want to come up and join me? And again, we welcome your questions and look forward to having a conversation here. Go ahead.
Question-and-Answer Session
Unknown Analyst
[indiscernible] where they are [indiscernible]for an extended period of time. You've talked about the Barnett a little bit, but I'm thinking further out. Does the Barnett continue to get drilled? Are these economic or is it just too expensive?
Barry E. Davis
Well, the good news is that the core of the Barnett still works at a pricing that we're seeing today. It's like all of the other plays. What we found is that there is a core that is much better than the outer tiers of the play. And so what we're seeing is that the core of the Barnett, which essentially is where 85% of our assets are in current production come from, is still very good. I also think of the -- it's kind of the food chain analogy. I mean, some of the early players in the Barnett that are the first guys that are looking for the highest returns have moved on to some of the other plays, and they're looking for those opportunities in the Marcellus today or the Utica or the Mississippi or wherever. But the play still for the lower cost of capital players, some of the upstream MLPs, for example, are expanding their positions in the Barnett. We believe that they will continue to develop these assets and that there will be good development and sustained volume there. Good news for us also is that we've got the second phase of our Benbrook expansion that will come on in the first quarter of next year. It was actually delayed from the third quarter of this year so that will give us a significant influx of volumes in the first quarter. And so I think we'll continue to see special projects that will sustain volumes there. Next question.
Unknown Analyst
How much spending do you guys have left for this year?
Michael J. Garberding
So far, we've spent right south of $90 million and we're projecting to spend just a little bit north of $40 million in the fourth quarter, about $45 million.
Unknown Analyst
And then on top of it all, [indiscernible] forecasted EBITDA...
Michael J. Garberding
Right, somewhere at around -- about 4x.
Barry E. Davis
Yes, sir?
Unknown Analyst
Can you expand those, on the last question, talk about 2012 with the thoughts on [indiscernible]?
Michael J. Garberding
Yes. Right now, 2012, CapEx is projected right around $225 million. Of that, about $180 million is related to the Cajun Sibon project. As Barry mentioned, that should begin construction in the first half of 2012, so the majority of that would probably be in the back end of 2012.
Unknown Analyst
So about $185 million?
Michael J. Garberding
$180 million for Cajun Sibon of the $226 million, then the other pieces are just finishing up the Apache project and then capital around the crude projects and then capital around our base assets.
Unknown Analyst
And regarding financing, Mike, you want to go a little further on how you think about that?
Michael J. Garberding
Yes, right. When we look at financing projects, we do typically -- do 50-50 debt-to-equity as far as how we've done it. But again, the cash we've held back with regard to our higher coverage is equity. So again, we've had north of $20 million held back this year in cash and we'll project to hold back additional cash.
Unknown Analyst
But your cash [indiscernible] distribution coverage is 1.2 and that excess cash -- that free cash flow, is that the equity that you're talking about?
Michael J. Garberding
Yes.
Barry E. Davis
And as we've described, the year-to-date is 1.43x. This year, as we set our distribution objectives, we did have a deleveraging intent in that. And so we essentially set it, one, for excess coverage related to commodity price sensitivity; and then secondly, for deleveraging. And we've actually made more progress on that than we anticipated. So lots of questions recently about the handling of the distribution, and hopefully, we've helped some of you understand how we think about that.
Unknown Analyst
Talk to me about managing each of these [indiscernible] .
Barry E. Davis
More from a corporate development standpoint, the day-to-day operations, we have no involvement, and you would guess why. Mike Howard, who runs that business, was President of Energy Transfer's Midstream business for the last 5 years. He ran our operations prior to that for about 3 years and is very capable, has actually developed a very capable team, hiring another couple of key guys that had worked with him previously. So we don't have day-to-day involvement. We're on the board. But from a corporate development standpoint, we feel like that's where we are helpful, with ideas and evaluations on ideas that they're chasing. So that would be where our involvement is.
Unknown Analyst
And you said that you want to take distribution for the second half of next year. Are you happy [indiscernible] where you are? Are there losses? Do you take losses? How does that work?
Barry E. Davis
Yes. Actually, there was a reason. When we looked at the first 12 months, we had investment opportunities that we felt like the cash flow of the business needed to be reinvested in those opportunities. However, we want the cash to come out to us. I mean, we need that as an MLP, and so it's structured into the agreements that we will essentially operate it like an MLP after 12 months. And so that's why we say the middle of 2012.
Unknown Analyst
Moving on to the crude terminal opportunity. Do you actually have to secure the barges to bring them, to bring those -- are you using barges [indiscernible] from the Marcellus side? So you've had...
Barry E. Davis
Rail. I said barges, but I meant rail.
Michael J. Garberding
Yes.
Unknown Analyst
Are you using barges in any way? The barges [indiscernible]
Barry E. Davis
We are not -- maybe only right around our facilities there to get product to market, but we're not barging any significant distances. It's all rail right now. And in fact, we are securing rail cars for our Permian and that market is tight as well.
Unknown Analyst
So the liquids come in and then sort of the pipe somewhere? Or you fractionate that? Or you do...
Barry E. Davis
Yes, we're actually offloading liquids via rail, fractionating it in our Eunice and Riverside facilities and then delivering it to market right off of those facilities. Yes, sir?
Unknown Analyst
How do you think about the outlook for NGLs [indiscernible]
Barry E. Davis
Well, there's much more written about that than I could cover. But I would say we don't disagree with what we see, kind of the consensus on that. We believe that there is sufficient market demand to absorb the liquids that we see through 2013. We think that at some point, we're going to have to see some significant expansion of market, and we think that will come. Now the question will be, is there a gap in timing? A lot of the petrochemical expansions, the consumers of ethane, for example, is going to take 3 or 4 years to develop those and we may have kind of a 2-year window to expand fractionators and really increase the supply fact. So I think we probably got some exposure to maybe late 2013 for a year or 2 until we see consumption expand.
Michael J. Garberding
But again, from a Cajun Sibon project which is bringing liquids in Louisiana, we have the 5-year ethane sales to bring them with Williams. So again, we have the market locked up on the ethane coming in on that project.
Unknown Analyst
[Question Inaudible]
Michael J. Garberding
I'm sorry?
Unknown Analyst
[Question Inaudible]
Michael J. Garberding
Instead of market price.
Barry E. Davis
And importantly, what we're doing right now is securing contracts that would underwrite the Cajun Sibon expansion and we would not have exposure to -- we will have no commodity price exposure to it at all. It will all be fee-based. And in fact, everything we described today in terms of growth is all fee-based. We're hopeful that we will add, on top of that, some opportunity margin, if you will, and that's typically what we're doing in our businesses that we underwrite projects with fee-based structures and then we're able to add some opportunity margin on top of that. In time, that becomes -- maybe to look kind of like what we are today which is at a -- our forecast of commodity prices, we would be about 80% fee-based, 20% commodity-sensitive. Yes, sir?
Unknown Analyst
Can you talk a little bit about for [indiscernible] project. Just in general when you do corporate planning, you talk about a -- when you talk about a high-teens return. Is that your one cash-on-cash return? Or is that the return of the life of project? And I guess, I presume that the life cycle for each of the projects is probably unique. But in general, can you talk about what kind of lifetime you assume each project will generate cash?
Michael J. Garberding
Yes. Again when you talk about high-teens return, that is over the life of the project. And typically, what we look at on life is the defined period of time. We're not putting a large terminal value and then assuming it goes into perpetuity. So it's really over what we see in the life of the cash flow of the project too. Also like Barry mentioned, when we look at projects, typically we value that on the base contract we have and then we look at potential upside that might be above and beyond that high-teens return. Our third-party gas in Permian would be an example on that. But each is a little bit different, like you said. So you're looking at Apache project, we have cash ramp over time based on their production curve versus the Cajun Sibon project where it's a very small ramp and you have fault lines running through the pipe. So when you look at the high-teens return and you are comparing year one cash, then the thing about the Apache project, your year 3 cash is a lot higher to get a high-teens return. Right, because your year one cash flow is lower with the ramp coming up.
Unknown Analyst
So for both of those projects, what is the expected life that you could use in terms of looking over the period.
Michael J. Garberding
We typically look over about a 10-year period.
Unknown Analyst
Interesting. And just curious, for both of those, I would think that just given the area where the Apache assets are going to be that that's an area that, hopefully, we'll be seeing activity for well past that. I believe [indiscernible] very conservative.
Michael J. Garberding
Yes.
Unknown Analyst
And how about for the Cajun Sibon operation?
Michael J. Garberding
Same thing. I mean, there's a lot of optionality on that pipe too because right now, you have raw make coming from Mt. Belvieu into Louisiana. Depending upon the what happens over the next 5 years on piping from northeast, et cetera, you could see product moving back actually toward the west to Mt. Belvieu. So that just gives us a lot of optionality on how we utilize our assets and then how -- which market do you go to based on where the need is.
Unknown Analyst
Okay. So presumably for something like Cajun Sibon, if you're talking about a high-teens return on a project, we should expect the year one cash-on-cash return to be in excess of that because obviously you need an excess of the high-teens, year one cash flow -- year one to year 10 cash flow to get a high return on it. Am I thinking about that the right way?
Michael J. Garberding
On a year one, you have a lower year one and then you'd ramp into it depending on the ramp of that. It's a smaller ramp on Cajun Sibon on volume.
Unknown Analyst
But there's still a ramp?
Michael J. Garberding
Yes.
Barry E. Davis
Importantly, we intend to give a little more clarity on that in our guidance for 2012, which we'll have in the February earnings release. In fact, I'd say your thought would be right, though, that in -- if you had a project that turned on day one with full cash flow and Cajun Sibon will be almost 100% cash flow day one, it would be in excess of, on a cash-on-cash return basis, year one, year 2 would be higher than the overall internal rate of return that we refer to. Yes, next question?
Unknown Analyst
Do you guys have any plans for XI in terms of [indiscernible] a drop down in the LP? Or is that broken out [indiscernible]?
Michael J. Garberding
Well, yes. And we commented on that in our earnings call recently. And what we recognized is that XI really gives us kind of an extra strategic advantage as we look at significant growth opportunities. We think that it could be used for things beyond what EX can do standalone. The types of projects that we've communicated here, they all have a fairly short development life, development to cash flow. So the burden on the MLP for carry is not great. They also are of a size that we think that finances well inside of EX. If we were to look at something larger, longer lead time development or it was something that we thought was strategic enough to us to essentially use the XI currency, then we would do that. And we certainly looked at those types of opportunities over the last 24 months. And we would be very selective and have to be a really strategic step for us to use it, but we would.
Unknown Analyst
And then one other note. How many other [indiscernible] fracs have you announced [indiscernible] and how are you thinking [indiscernible] and do you think that it takes [indiscernible] effective possibility really [indiscernible]?
Barry E. Davis
Well, I don't think they all get built. But if they did, we still have -- we will still have a Cajun Sibon project that is fully contracted from day one. And we're entering into 5-year contracts of -- and that is strategic and that it separates us a little bit from the Mt. Belvieu contracting that's going on. Most of those are much longer terms, 10 years or longer. And so we felt like that really offered us a competitive advantage or created a competitive advantage for us to go with 5 years. Secondly, we think in 5 years there could be a lot of things different in that marketplace, and what we have is a connector between demand and supply. And so we'll use that pipe as it best fits after that 5 years, and it probably will continue to do what it's doing forever. So we're not exposed, if you will, to an overbuild of fractionation, and we'll wait and see what happens at Mt. Belvieu as far as all the announced projects.
Michael J. Garberding
I think there's some that are even being thought about that you haven't seen communicated that we hear from players that we're talking to in the Cajun Sibon project.
Unknown Executive
We're also, strategically, we're geographically different. So when you think of a producer having all their eggs in one basket, producers have talked to us about having that optionality of having 2 areas where they're sending their liquids. Second is you're near a local demand like Louisiana market right now. It's importing product from Belvieu so what you're doing is bring the product to them to create local product. So again, having the demand in that market is key.
Barry E. Davis
Other questions? Okay. Thank you, guys, very much for attending, and we look forward to seeing you guys possibly later on in 1B1 or at the next conference.
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