Mechanical Technology: The Wall Street Analyst Forum Presentation Transcript

| About: Mechanical Technology, (MKTY)

Mechanical Technology, Inc. (OTCQB:MKTY)

The Wall Street Analyst Forum

August 15, 2007 9:10 am ET


Peng Lim - CEO



Hey, good morning, ladies and gentlemen. In our attempt to adhere to the published schedule, I would like to introduce the first company in this morning's program.

Before I do that, I do want to point out that there has been, in addition to the schedule, for those of you that didn't get a new schedule today, you have one from yesterday's updated. We did add Nathaniel Energy (NECX), which is a waste-to-energy company, will be presenting today at 2 O'clock. Because they were a late addition to the schedule, I am going to have them present tomorrow as well right after American Electric Power at 1:20. So, they will actually present today at 2:00, tomorrow at 1:20.

Nathaniel was with us here a year and a half ago. They have got a new CEO, a new CFO, new financial structure. They have got some additions to the technology that they had a year and a half ago. They are a waste-to-energy company that's addressing the waste-to-energy space. Specifically, as the keynote speaker had mentioned, it is an area that's been I think overlooked on Wall Street, probably because the sell-side hasn't figured out enough ways to make money after that. It doesn't mean it's not a great idea. But, those essentially figure out ways to make more investment banking dollars, probably you will see more attention to it.

Anyhow they're, we know one of the leaders in the waste-to-energy space, so I would encourage you to stick around until 2 O'clock with them, I think you will find out some things that you don't know. And that's the whole idea of being here, right?

So, having said that, and of course we do have Lithium Technology Corporation. They are one of the companies in the lithium battery space. Ener1 is another publicly traded one. Johnson Controls is a big publicly traded company, of course, that’s in that space. Couple of Japanese players and even the Chinese company in that space as well.

So, in any case we have got one of the only two publicly traded pure players in lithium technology here today. So, I worded that correctly with the constantly changing series of technologies here.

Any case, the first company in this morning's program is Mechanical Technology. And most people know this company as the well known public company that’s around for a while. They are primarily engaged in development and commercialization of award-winning Mobion direct methanol micro fuel cell technology through its subsidiary, MTI MicroFuel Cells, Inc.

MTI Micro has developed strategic partnerships with companies such as Samsung Electronics and Gillette/Duracell to facilitate efforts to achieve commercialization. MTI is also engaged in the design, manufacture and sales of high performance test and measurement instruments and systems through its subsidiary, MTI Instruments.

So without any further introduction, I would like to introduce Peng Lim, who is the Chief Executive Officer of the company.


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Peng Lim

Good morning. My name is Peng Lim, and I am from MTI, symbol is MKTY. We are trading in NASDAQ. MTI have two subsidiaries. One is MTI Micro. We focus on micro fuel cells for the handheld consumer electronic market. And MTI Instruments which is focusing on high precision non-contact measurement equipment.

Over the last year, we have made a lot of progress in increasing our revenue, decreasing our loss and we are also stepping up in the R&D, as well as new product introductions in MTI Instruments, and also making progress moving toward commercialization of MicroFuel Cells in MTI Micro. So, today I would like to share our progress with you.

So to start with, on the financial side of it we have a high-level financial to share with you. If you take a look on the chart, over the last six months, for the first six months of 2007 we have increased our revenue by 47% and that increased from $3.3 million same period last year, versus a $4.9 million this year. We also are successful in reducing the loss by about 16% on an operating loss side of it from $9.5 million to $8 million. And loss per share has improved 28% from $0.21 per share to $0.15 per share. Of course, we will continue to work hard and continue to grow our revenue and reducing our loss.

So, let me start with introducing a little bit on MTI Instruments. On MTI Instruments, we made this non-contact measurement equipment for Precision Instruments measurement that are using capacitance probe. Also, we are participating in semiconductor metrology, where you can think about this wafer that's coming in, in this big machine on the semiconductor fab side of it. And our sensor or probe is used to measure the exact precision of the thickness of the wafer itself. So, all these measurements are done at a high precision non-contact basis.

We also participate in Aviation and Industrial Vibration industry where in the airplane, the US Government, like the Air Force, as well as the commercial airlines, would use our equipment to calibrate the engine. So, that's where we participate. Again, all these measurements are non-contact. And it has to be, if you are thinking about an engine that’s spinning, it's very hard to have a contact measurement. So, that's why it's a non-contact measurement that we use on our machines.

We had great progress over the last year or two in MTI Instruments side of it. Year-to-date Q2 2007, we improved our revenue. It increased by 23%. Year-over-year, 2006 versus 2005 went up 27%. Backlog as of the end of Q2 of this year improved up 62% compared to just a quarter before. So, end of Q1 versus end of Q2, up 62% to $1.48 million.

Also recently, we received an Air Force order of $1.14 million option to buy up to an additional $1.14 million more. These are the machines, again, as I mentioned earlier, to calibrate the engine for our US Air Force.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, we have been stepping up in MTI Instruments side of it in terms of R&D as well as a new product introduction. In 2006, we introduced a new engine calibration machine called PBS-4100 PLUS and those are the machines that are just ordered by our US Air Force.

In 2007, we just introduced our first line of a new fully integrated next generation data acquisition system that we call EVE, introduced in June of this year, will be shipping end of this year, in Q4 this year. So, far we have got a very good feedback from the industry. So, we are very happy and looking forward for the shipment of this new line of product.

So, with that on the instrument side of it, I would like to flip into the MTI Micro where we are working on this exciting micro fuel cells technology that we are moving toward commercialization for the handheld consumer electronic market.

So to start with, before we invest in this technology, the first question that we asked ourselves is what is the need? Why do people want a micro fuel cell on the consumer electronic? The need actually came from all of us as consumers. It is pretty obvious that the batteries today up there doesn’t do the job anymore and one would say, why? It was just fine two years ago. It was just fine five years ago, and all of a sudden, how come it's not good anymore?

It is not that it's not good, it's just not sufficient, I guess, to power all these next generation consumer electronics out there. And the reason is simply because of us as a consumer. If you think about just a few years ago, take example as a cellular phone, people would buy up phone for one reason and one reason only, it's the part on the phone and since that it has evolved. People wanted camera on it, very soon they wanted MP3 on it. And now, with a new generation of a phone of any consumer electronic equipment that's coming out, people are talking about even satellite communication. If you go to Asia, if you go to Korea, satellite broadcasting coming down to your phone is not that far away. People are talking about that. People talking about multiple wireless technology that incorporate into one phone.

So today, it's of the WAN technology, going forward it's going to have a Wi-Fi, it's going to have a WiMAX, and it's going to have all these fancy technologies built in right into your phone. And of course, the recent announcement of iPhone, we know that now your phone also wants a bigger screen. Now, people want to watch movie on it, they want to watch videos on it, right?

So with that, it only translates to one thing. What it translates to is more functionality, more power requirement. Unfortunately, the batteries that we are familiar with, lithium-ion, before there was nickel metal hydride. The energy density improvement on these batteries is actually toward the latter part of their improvement right now. They've improvement between 5% to 7%, I would say, on average per year. And that is considered very slow, if you think about IC in semiconductor doubling every 18 months.

So, I personally actually came from a system company, spending almost 20 years in the past, but we were responsible for product development for the notebook industry back in early '90s. I started with Zenith Data Systems, then Texas Instruments, responsible for all their notebook development.

Then I was moving into the handheld market, where I was Worldwide Product Development Head for Palm at the time that Palm went IPO in the year 2000. Than we separated from 3Com and went IPO and the reason I brought this up is because that when we were system designer for the last 20 years, the first day that we were involved with a notebook back in the day of Zenith, there was only one requirement. People would say, could you please give us a battery life that's more than 2 hours of our PC?

20 years later, 2007, people are still asking the same question. Could you please give me three to four hours of a battery life? And really everything had changed a lot, only thing that hasn't changed that much at all is battery life and same thing with the handheld industry. iPhone, the most popular handheld that’s been announced lately, the first complaint from customers that we all read about it on the newspaper is, what's the battery life?

So, that actually translates to there being a need in the market. Then a next question is, where will the solution come from? But before I go into the solution just take a look, if there is a need, what is the market that we participate in and how big is the market itself? The market of mobile lithium-ion battery segment is very big actually. In 2006, it's about $14 billion market divided into consumer, industrial, and military and where the consumer is the largest segment. Certainly, that’s no surprise. There were more than a billion units of consumer devices shipped just last year alone.

Beside, as a big market it continues to grow. Analysts have projected that it will be growing from $14 billion to more than $20 billion by 2012. So, what we did, we took a cut into more segment within that consumer electronic side of it. Cellular phone is the largest market of all followed by digital camera, notebook, PDA, Smartphone, et cetera. So, that just gives you a flavor about how big the market is for the handheld [energy products].

So, the market is big. Certainly, the need is definitely there. So, what is the solution? For us the solution is micro fuel cell. Easier said than done. Fuel cell has been there for a while. There's one thing that is hard to do in the fuel cell, they are multiple, and I will explain all to you and tell you a little bit more about how we have conquered some of these challenges over the last 12 months.

One other thing fuel cells require -- if you take a look into it, I'm not going to go into details about how fuel cells work. That's almost a fine class. But nonetheless, today what I want you to think about it, it's just an important part of the fuel cell. All these red and blue lines that we drew on it, there is a label and it says water recovery pump and it also says re-circulation pump.

And what it means is that in the fuel cell it generates water, it also requires water to start the engine. That H2O, water itself has to be re-circulated and re-pumped back and that is fine, that is going on, that's what everybody has to do. And what does it mean? It means that you need all these pumps in there, and when you need all these water pumps in there, the size becomes bigger. Therefore, when people talk about fuel cell, people talk about space shuttle, people talk about your parcels and your car, and all these bigger machines.

How do you solve the fuel cell issue to become a handheld device? First thing you have to solve is to get the size smaller, and that comes in with the MTI. MTI technology, we have invented a technology called passive DMFC. So, this again is an operation of the fuel cell. What you would realize here is that there's no more water re-circulation pump. So, we have invented technology here that we have a patent on. Basically, we found a way to get water from the output to the input without any pump. Now, that you don't have the pump, your size is getting smaller.

Another thing that's important I would like to point out that we have a patent on it as well is using the 100% methanol. If you take a look into this orange, red bar here, think of it as a cartridge that you plug into your device. And that cartridge itself put in the fuel. So, we generate energy from the fuel that's similar to I am guesstimating your car that generate energy for you.

Then the fuel that we use is methanol. Now, all other companies out there doing methanol is [one]. One of the tricks, probably the difficult trick that people try to play with is how do you get the most energy out from your micro fuel cells. There is no doubt, the most energy you can get is producing 100% pure fuel. Other companies they do have to dilute it. Some even dilute as much as 90%. So what they do is they do 10% methanol and 90% water. And what it means is, the maximum you can extract out from the given volume is 10% energy that you can extract out. Because, H20, water doesn't generate energy, if it does world would be very cheap on the energy side, which is does not. So, counting on methanol, we do have IP protection on how do you use 100% methanol to generate a micro fuel cell energy.

So, now that we are talking about IP. I just want to share with you a little bit about the IP we had. I covered two of them that are on a 100% methanol, as well as passive water management. What it means is we will get rid of all these pumps that are required. Above and beyond that we have a very strong portfolio of IPs. We have filed 86 patents in the US, 29 of them had been granted. We also filed 23 international patent applications filed internationally.

Also, not listed on this chart here, we do have a partnership with Gillette/Duracell and combined two companies; actually we do have a perpetual right to use up eight patents that has been granted on the cartridge technology or application of the cartridge technology. So, we are very, very strong on patent portfolio.

So, now you say that, okay, now we have a market. We have a technology. Certainly, we have a need. The next thing is what does MTI produce? So, let me show you a little bit about what we have here. What we have here is, well, recently, just about a month ago or so, we did announce a micro fuel cell chip that we called the Mobion Chip and that's what I am holding on my hand here. It's not that big, it's 9cc. And this is the engine of the fuel cell.

If you think of it, certainly you need the fuel to come in, that's methanol to come in. You need air to come in on the other side, oxygen, air coming in on the other side and then this engine will produce the electricity, chemical production here.

Again, this engine has been done using a 100% methanol. Performance is obviously very strong. I will give you a number then I will explain the relevance of it. This engine itself produces consistently 50 milliwatts per centimeter square. At the same time, you can produce 1.4 watt hour per cc.

Now, milliwatt per centimeter square defines how much power you can produce. 1.4 watt per cc of fuel defines when your fuel comes in what kind of volume, what kind of energy you can get.

So, I will give you a comparison. A lithium-ion today, the fuel itself is about 0.4 watt hour per cc. So, with the methanol, today we extract out as much as 1.4 watt hour per cc. With this number, a 50 milliwatt per centimeter square, 1.4 watt hour per cc compared to our competitors out there that we have heard of in public in the micro fuel cell industry, we believe we are about twice as good as some of the competitors that have now in the market on the watt hour per cc side of it. We also believe that we are the leader in the 1.4 watt hour per cc. I am sorry, I meant 50 milliwatt per centimeter square and 1.4 watt hour per cc. So, certainly, we are leading the packs on the micro fuel cell development side of it.

What are the improvements that we did in the last year or so? We have reduced this chip actually over the six months period from 16cc, which is 40% bigger to about 9cc that what we have today. We've also reduced the weight. Again, over the six months period, we reduced the weight 40%, to less than about an ounce. What I'm holding here, on the Mobion Chip is less than an ounce.

One other thing in the consumer electronics market is that the way that you have to operate under the environment that the end user, which we have no control, when you buy the device, you operate in other conditions than you want it to be. Is so-called 0 to 40 degree C standard. And that is standard for most of the electronic equipments that you buy, phone, game machine, whatever it is.

One of the challenges that a micro fuel cell company has is that, when fuel cells work and micro fuel cells work; it's very hard to get it to work across the temperatures 0 to 40, as well as the community from zero to saturate, which is 100%. So, with this chip that we announced last month, we have packed that and we have validated within our (inaudible) we can run our fuel cell within this range, so that it falls into the consumer electronics requirement.

So, that's very, very exciting on the technology side of it, and how fast we move towards the commercialization side of it by conquering the user environment, the size, the weight, and energy density.

With that, let's take a look into what kind of application or how many configurations that we can use in these fuel cells that we are talking about here. There are three ways that you could configure a fuel cell and that's no different from lithium-ion batteries today. One other way is to do it as an external charger. And certainly lithium-ion does the same that you can do as an external charger. Second approach that you do is you have the so-called snap-on, let's say you buy a camcorder today, you have a snap-on battery that gives you a longer life.

The last option of course is the one that's fully embedded and built inside. So, those are three possibilities that can be used and that's why we were designing these fuel cells hopefully for complement, or replace some of them, a certain application of what the lithium-ion batteries are using for.

One other thing that I would like to point out, that I did not point out earlier, is this chip itself. One of the significant things that we designed in this chip, is that we designed in such a way that it becomes a platform. If you think about the fuel cell, or early technology, you have the need to customize them. So, every application, you have to redesign engine, you have to redesign everything and customize the certain applications. With this chip that we are working here, we make it in such a way that with the same chip, we can do the application of packaging it differently. So, it's kind of a different outside package, inside the engine, it's not the same for the application such as cellular phone, MP3, camera, game player or PDA etcetera for all the handheld devices out there.

Another thing that's important that I want to point out is that this chip itself is designed in such a way that it's using injection molding. For you guys that are not familiar with injection molding, injection molding is a very common technique in the high volume production. If you take a look into this notebook itself, all the plastic on this notebook are designed using injection molding. It's a machine coming in, you plug in, you design a tool, then the plastic is shooting in, the machine is going to form into a shape, when it's opened up the power comes up and it's just going very quickly one after the other.

Not only that you get that efficiency of a high volume, you get the efficiency of certainly the consistency from your one unit to the next as well. So, by using a technique like this, we were successful, actually before this it was 16 pieces of a pot. We reduced the pot from 16 pieces into one molded piece here. And certainly there is no screw that is holding it together, they are certainly all held together by this injection molding technique.

So, with the application, what are the different energy cells, what are the benefits that micro fuel cells bring into the market? One other thing, if you do not require to recharge your batteries using the outlet anymore, the power outlet anymore, why is it important? We are all busy folks. We run around from airport to airport, how many times that when we try to make the last most important phone call, your battery runs out. And one can say, while there is electric plug, you can plug that in. The only difficulty is you do not have time to wait for it to charge, while you are moving around from place to place. It's not quite mobile, when you have to wait for something to charge for an hour.

With the fuel cell itself, you do not need that. What you need of course is a cartridge that you plug that in, and let's say your car has run out of gas, you add more gas into it and you go again. The second thing that always amazed me, when I was in the systems company, in a consumer electronic handheld company, it always amazed me that how many times, when you try to go overseas? The thing that you bring, the adapter itself, international adapters are bigger than the device itself. If you own an iPod today, if you own a phone today try to go around the world, your phone is of the size of a small thing, yet your adaptor is very, very big, especially different standards out there, again with the fuel cell you don't need that either.

The last thing, I want to point out here is the fuel cell is green energy compared to the batteries today. Of course, we as a consumer, probably as far as when we use a battery, many times we dump them away and go into a landfill site and that's where we have contributed to a lot of pollution out there for the landfill side of it.

Well, the last thing I want to share with you is the distribution. So, as all these things need distribution, our strategy of distribution is to go through the partnership with the OEM. We are working together right now with Samsung on the cellular phone and cellular phone market side of it. We will announce another agreement with another consumer electronics, that's our milestone before the end of the year.

At the same time, on the distribution side of it, so you can take away on one side, so-called the product revenue, where you sell the fuel cell itself. Then the other side, we call it a recurring revenue, where you sell the few cartridges, where people also use the cartridge, you got to go out and buy the new one, that's a recurring revenue coming in.

And there we have a partnership with Gillette/Duracell, and of course, we know that Duracell is the largest battery distributor in the world. You can almost buy a Duracell battery anywhere around the world. So, we are fortunate to have a partnership with Duracell. The strategy is that when a consumer can go to retail to buy a product through two sides, one is through the system manufacturer, and other side is through the cartridge distributor.

So, where are we right now? So, there are four key factors. We are moving close towards the commercialization of this micro fuel cell, and there are four very important factors for micro fuel cell is to be commercializable. The number one, is the need to provide high energy density. We basically got that done. We had successfully demonstrated that we can run 100% methanol, produce high energy density.

The second factor that's very important, it needs to be made small enough for the handheld devices. We believe that we've conquered that problem and we continue to improve to miniaturizing it. The modern chip itself operates with a passive water management I shared with you earlier, is the key for the miniaturization of any micro fuel cells actually. So we are happy that we have that technology. I mean any needy micro DMFC fuel cell out there.

The first thing I mentioned earlier as well is they have to operate over the wide range of user environmental usage. So, our fuel cells successfully demonstrated that you can run at 0 to 40 C, you can run at any community. So, those are the three key things and we have resolved it over the last year or so.

And here is the last part that we are moving forward. Going to commercialization in consumer electronic side of it, of course you need to be prepared for high volume manufacturing. It cannot be custom made one piece at a time. So, what do we do on that? One of the pieces I shared with you is we improved on our injection molding technique, that we have a chip in our hand now and there is a high volume production.

For the rest of this year and into the 2008, we will focus on many manufacturing readiness technique that is typical, used by the notebook industry, used by the handheld industry, used by any high volume technology company out there. That you have to start preparing this and that is called design for manufacturability, design for assembly, design for testability and design for serviceability.

What it means is when you design in, you've got to have the high-volume manufacturing in mind, when you design you've got to have assembly in mind and efficiency in mind and when you design, somebody has got to test all these devices during the manufacturing, you've got to be able to easily pass it. Of course, some units you do need to service them, that has to be in mind. That is very, very important. I think a lot of the product companies tend to skip that fact, at this very hard skill, if you don't design that in.

We are totally in the process in the need of doing all these things. We are feeling confident at this point that we should be able to get all this ready for the remaining part of this year and into 2008 and ready to ship the product into the market by 2009. And that is our plan right now at this point, we are on schedule. So, we are very excited all this year for fuel cell, discussion, scientific advancement. Finally, we had a chance to bring it into the engineering side of it and hopefully into the manufacturing stage, not long from now.

And that basically concludes my presentation. Thank you for your attention. I have five minutes for questions I have just been informed.

Question-and-Answer Session

Unidentified Audience Member

(Question Inaudible).

Peng Lim

Okay. That's a good question. So, I need to repeat the question and if I repeat it wrong, please remind me. The question is, I mentioned earlier that we can put this Mobion Chip into different configuration and how do we package them? I believe that's the question and the second part of it is, how do we provide more power, improve the power energy side of it, right, I think that's the question, yes? Okay.

Unidentified Audience Member

(Question Inaudible).

Peng Lim

Okay. The third piece is, is there a heating element in that chip. Those are all very good questions. I'm going to answer one at a time. So, the very first one is different configuration. I mentioned a little bit earlier, that we try to design it as a platform. So, the system that we have to-date that we have talked about publicly is we have a N1 system. What it is, is a fuel cell will produce a 1 watt continuous power. And with that system we actually have a hybrid. In there, we do have a hybrid system, if we have a fuel cell. We also have a small lithium-ion battery in there for the power. So, what it means is that fuel cells could generate one watt system, and the lithium-ion battery could take care -- small lithium-ion battery not the big one, small one, that would take care of any fluctuation of a power; because when you turn on some device, you may pick it up to three watts for a split second, then you drop down to some 1 watt again. So, with that configuration, basically we can handle multiple different applications. So, let's say that your MP3 may be always below one watt okay, so, you just use that.

On the other hand, let's say, your PDA or your game machine or something like that when you turn on it takes higher power, and all we need is to adjust the battery side itself rather than the fuel cell engine. So, fuel cell engine is always there to refill your battery. So, that's how we configure in such a way that you can do it with the same engine, yet multiple application and configuration. You have a follow-on?

Unidentified Audience Member

No, I have another question?

Peng Lim

But maybe I will answer that too. All right. Okay, so, the next question that we have is do we improve on the energy and power side of it? Absolutely. You have got to think about this as early stage of the fuel cell. Lithium-ion battery was introduced in 1992. So, 17 years later people are still using it.

So, we continue to improve it even by this itself. At the last year actually -- we had the battery that we announced last year, this year we had to make it smaller 40% smaller, 40% lighter, energy certainly stronger. Last year, we had a bigger machine and lower energy, lower power. And this year, we got a smaller engine and bigger power. So, we continue to do that.

On the heat, sorry to be really quick now. One of the advantages of using methanol DMFC technology versus other fuel cells, is the temperature itself. Some fuel cells actually require 800 degrees C to operate, not good for you to put in the pocket in case if it leaks.

So, on the other hand that the methanol technology that we use, we have checked our system inside the machine itself. Methanol can operate not higher than 80 degrees C, even at the maximum theoretical way that you do it.

So, all the way that packages on it with our system, with our prototype we tested no single spark, that is warmer than 60 degrees C, and 60 degrees C is a friend of a consumer electronic, basically it's [one to the pack], not burning your hand. Yes?

Unidentified Audience Member

What are your cash needs between now and 2009 and how do you plan to satisfy?

Peng Lim

Very good question. Okay. The question is what is our cash needs from now until 2009 and how do we satisfy them? Our cash needs, our cash burn going forward, we have disclosed for the remaining of this year is $0.9 million per month, so it's $900,000 per month of the burn.

Of course, we continue to grow our instrument business. Instruments, by the way is a profitable business. So, the more we grow over there the more contribution we've got. So that's one piece, by growing our instrument business. The second piece of it is that we do get government support as well.

Today we didn't share with you, but we just announced about a few weeks ago, we just got a Department of Energy grant addition of $500,000. They gave us $500,000 just about three, four months ago for this addition of $500,000, to sum up $1 million for the year.

The next piece of it, is we do also own a Plug Power chip. Many people may not know MTI bought the Plug Power many years ago and we had to spin that out through an IPO. So, we are still a shareholder of Plug Power, so do have some share of Plug Power, you can check it in to our public disclosure. On top of that, we have about, I believe, $5.6 billion of cash, as of end of Q2.

So, that is the funding that we have, although that's all the funds that we could use going forward. And of course, we are a public company that has always sought to raise money from the public forum.

Unidentified Audience Member

(Question Inaudible).

Peng Lim

Cash, not counting that equity that we own from a million, not billion, million, right not billion, I hope it is, but it is not. Yeah, million. Sorry, if I misspoke and thanks for the correction.

Unidentified Audience Member

(Question Inaudible).

Peng Lim

At this point, we haven't shipped that product yet. Product targeted for 2009 and the way that we go to the retail, as I mentioned earlier, through the OEM manufacturer, so you can assume that, if you can go out there and buy any consumer electronic, if that OEM manufacturer is partnering with us, you could buy there, right.

So, for example, the phone. You assume that if the phone out there, if the OEM carry any phone there you could buy there. Of course, it is on the contrary, when you go into mass production hopefully Duracell will be distributed everywhere and that includes 7/11 if you choose to buy there.

Alright, I've been told I am running out of time. Thank you very much. I am more than happy to talk to you individually. Thank you.


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