Six Flags: A Ripoff 37 comments
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So, took the family to Six Flags New England (SIX) this weekend. Last time.
Let me start out by saying we went with friends who had free passes so we did not have to pay the $50 a ticket it would have cost us to get in, saving me $200 right off the bat. In order to fully appreciate this, one has to recognize we have choices here. The same distance from where I live but in the opposite direction, we have a great place called Canobie Lake Park.
At Canobie, the admission would have run us a cool $96 for the same number of people and we would have had access to all areas of the park. We also would have saved the $25 that Six flags charged us to park. So, we would have been a nice $125 ahead of the game before we even walked into the park. Once there we paid $3.50 for a water that cost $1.50 at Canobie and $36 for a lunch that would have been 1/2 that at Canobie. Do you see where this is going?
What does Six Flags have going for it? They have the Thomas the Tank Engine rides and the Looney Tunes rides and other licensed areas (Batman, Superheros etc.) Neat right? Well, not so much. Here is the thing. The rides were all manned by one person.
Virtually all the parks I have been to (Canobie, Disney (DIS), Storyland, Sesame Place, owned by Anheuser Busch (BUD) have teams of people at almost all rides. Having only one person at the rides caused the wait between them to be intolerable. It wasn't that the people were lazy or not trying, it is just that in order to do the job efficiently and well, it takes two people.
The time spent waiting to unload and reload the rides was actually longer than the rides themselves!! This meant for the money we spent, the actual number of rides we went on was far less than a comparable park.
What made this annoyance even more blatant was the staffing in the shops. If I was in an area where my wallet might be pulled out, there was a plethora of people there ready to assist me and help me make a decision, but up yours on the tea cups buddy. Maddening.
Open Areas:
There weren't any! Six Flags did such a masterful job packing as many rides and shops into the space they had that I was impressed. I also felt highly claustrophobic (I do not usually). The walkways are all extremely narrow and open places to sit and relax simply do not exist. This causes massive congestion and makes for a very stressful day when you have a stroller with a two -year-old and four-year-old to keep and eye on as they are constantly getting jostled as we tried to go from ride to ride.
Now I thought it might have just be a feakishly busy day, but a look at the parking lot showed it half empty and a few questions to the staff confirmed it wasn't. Employees also confirmed that the level of staffing Saturday was on par with normal levels, so it was not an "out of the ordinary" day in any way.
Shops:
The shops were
good and the selection of food was great, but here again, Six Flags took a
good thing and ruined it. They have a Coldstone Creamery which makes just
about the best ice cream in the world. Great, right? It would have been
except the 2 kids' (1 scoop) cups, my medium cup and my wife's small cup
came to $20.50!! Twenty bucks for 6 scoops of ice cream? I'll never
bitch about gas prices again, Six Flags make OPEC look like a charity.
Holy Christ!!
Finally my wife and I (and the kids) surrendered and decided it was time to get out before we needed to refinance the house for dinner. On the way out, the boys were thirsty so I stopped in for a water: $3.50 (for those of you who do not want to do the math that works out to $18.55 a gallon).
Hope they enjoyed it, they'll never see another dime of mine. Had we bought the admission tickets it would have been a $400 day for nothing but aggravation. Was it just me being cranky? No. You know it was bad when your 4 year-old looks at you and say "Can we go to the other place next time"? Next summer. Canobie Lake here we come, probably three times for what it would cost us for a day at Six Flags.
As for the stock? Don't touch it. My experience cannot be that unusual and I have to seriously wonder how many repeat customers they get. A closer look shows that attendance last year dipped 14% over 2005 and as of July 2007, it had not risen over those low levels. Gouging those left in the park is not really the best way to go to create loyalty.
Six Flags made a bunch of noise in July about it's customer service ratings hitting an "all time" high. At first glance this seems great but, the more you look at it you have to ask, "higher than what"? From "sucks" to "dismal"? There were no quantifiable results to look at, only a press release that told us how great they were. Did they go from a 2 out of 10 to a 3 out of 10? That would be an "all time high" but hardly anything to brag about.
The company, currently valued at $325 million is saddled with over $2 billion in debt and will lose over $2.50 a share this year. Cash flow from operations, after they pay their dividend, is a sweet negative $14 million. This is where you have to look at the financials. Six Flags does not pay a dividend on the common but pays out $20 million a year in dividends, probably on preferred shares owner Daniel Snyder (who owns and has ruined the Redskins) has. Let's reverse it, can you find anything about the company that is positive?
Me either.. but they did screw me for a hundred and change last weekend, fool me once....
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This article has 37 comments:
In addition, they did quantify the customer surveys. It helps if you actually read the article instead of only reading the headline. They gave a report of the percentage of people that rated one topic one way or another and they compared that to the percentage of people that said it last year. They also reiterated this in the CC... well, I guess you didn't listen to that either.
By the way. I'm from Milwaukee. Anyone that ever goes to the Bradley Center to watch a Bucks game would pay the same rate you did for your ice-cream and $2-$4 for water is not uncommon - although I agree it is annoying.
Furthermore, attendance was up as of July over 2006. So how levels have not reached the low levels reached in 2006 when they dipped 14% compared to last year is rather interesting.
Keep up the good work and maybe you can replace Dan Rather soon!
Preferred dividend... i stated it was a guess, no matter,, it is sinking them
again, it is not the money spent, it is what you get for the money vs other places
I used to own a Six Flags season pass a few years ago and am no longer interested in purchasing one anytime in the future -- and the experiences I had during prior visits to the Magic Mountain park this past summer I don't believe I'll be returning again at all.
The company is charging Disney prices for a dismal carnival-like experience. The CEO keeps insisting the numbers are going up with customer service satisfaction...but I don't know where any of that is coming from and from which particular park. Every family group I've talked to that has visited a Six Flags park this past year in hopes of seeing the "new Six Flags" has told me nothing more than horror stories and how they vow to never return.
I believe the new CEO's biggest mistake was hiking up prices at venues while promising a new experience -- meanwhile no real significant changes to poor customer service, park appearance, and attraction operations have been made. The people he enticed back with the whole "We've changed and are doing better" advertisement have been burned.
2. Turnarounds are all about trajectory. That is investing 101. You cannot look at a static data point, you have to look at the direction a company is headed. You are an idiot if you need to be told that.
3. As another poster observed, you clearly have not done any homework, not being aware of publicly available information. You should be ashamed to be publishing information advice based on squat.
4. As another poster pointed out, to complain about high admission costs +/or food & bev prices at theme parks is naive. You must not get out much - when is the last time you went to Disney, Busch Gardens, etc?
5. I will bet you $1,000 that this stock is trading at >$6 in the next 24 months.
2- This is no turnaround..... it id a listless shipo
3- ashamed? no .. riped off? yup
4- Read the post again.. it is not the money, it is the value you get for it
5- considering it was at $6 a year ago, this should not be treated as an accomplishment
2. Turnarounds are all about trajectory. That is investing 101. You cannot look at a static data point, you have to look at the direction a company is headed. You are an idiot if you need to be told that.
3. As another poster observed, you clearly have not done any homework, not being aware of publicly available information. You should be ashamed to be publishing information advice based on squat.
4. As another poster pointed out, to complain about high admission costs +/or food & bev prices at theme parks is naive. You must not get out much - when is the last time you went to Disney, Busch Gardens, etc?
5. I will bet you $1,000 that this stock is trading at >$6 in the next 24 months.
And also, of course the ride will be shorter than the wait! So you say you've been to Disneyland. When I went, I waited for 1 and half hours with my niece to ride The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh, which was only a three minute ride. An hour for the Dumbo Ride, which was even shorter. What did you expect?
I haven't always had a magnificent time at Six Flags parks, never have I had a red carpet experience, but I've always had fun. Yes, I've experienced long lines at the park, but what else can you expect? Thousands of other people come to the park, expecting a good time. All that we can do is to help each other have a good time.
And also, of course the ride will be shorter than the wait! So you say you've been to Disneyland. When I went, I waited for 1 and half hours with my niece to ride The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh, which was only a three minute ride. An hour for the Dumbo Ride, which was even shorter. What did you expect? Another thing... you can ask for iced water in cups. And guess what, it's free! And you can have as many as you want!
I haven't always had a magnificent time at Six Flags parks, never have I had a red carpet experience, but I've always had fun. Yes, I've experienced long lines at the park, crabby ride operators, expensive food but what else can you expect? Thousands of other people come to the park, expecting a good time. All that we can do is to help each other have a good time.
you missed the point on the wait. the wait to "load and unload from the ride" was longer than the ride, due to inadequate staffing. i fully expect the wait to get on to be longer...
cost, we can use what ever discount we want to try to "prove me wrong", it still costs twice as much for a lousy experience.
worth every single penny
Was it really $25 to park? YIKES, don't they know you only want to use the spot, not live on it!
you could get $15 parking but it was a 20 min. walk to the park.. not fun with little ones
lakecompounce.com
I can't really comment on the ride staffing, since I have to avoid most of the rides because of an eye condition. But I do observe that staffing levels are usually lower in the Spring and Fall because the student-age kids that are typically hired for these positions are in school.
I've never understood why anyone trying to pinch pennies would pay for bottled water inside a theme park. I always bring my own bottle of water from home. Even if I didn't do that, there are chilled drinking fountains near each restroom building, and as another poster mentioned, you can get a cup of icewater in the restaurants at no charge.
Anyone planning to make a single visit to a theme park should go with the understanding that they will pay fairly high prices for food and merchandise. It is my understanding that that's where the park earns most of its revenue.
Ways to control costs:
- Never pay full price for admission tickets at the park ticket booths. Use discount coupons from local hotels, fast-food restaurants, and soda bottlers, or purchase tickets at participating hotels or grocery stores at lower prices. If you have friends who are passholders (and who are willing to go with you), they often have "bring-a-friend" discount coupons. I believe that the tickets you can purchase online at the Six Flags web site are also discounted.
- If you intend to visit the park (or any other SF park) more that a couple of times a year, purchasing a season pass will pay for itself. You can also purchase a parking pass (when available, these are usually valid only at your home park). A standard season pass at my local park provides a 5% discount on most food and merchandise (some of the small snack vending locations and carts don't give pass discounts), and also provides a book of discount coupons. At our park, the lowest price for a season pass is available when the passes first go on sale in the Fall of the previous year -- the pass price increases in stages every couple of months after that.
- Because I visit the park a LOT (about once a week), I also purchase a premium upgrade to my season pass. With that, I get a 25% discount on food and mercandise, which means food costs me about the same as it would outside the park. I don't know if this upgrade is available at all SF parks.
- Again, if you are a frequent park goer, get a Six Flags Entertainment credit card, which earns points redeemable for tickets, passes, and food-and-merchandise vouchers, and use it for all your purchases at the park (you get more points per dollar for usage at the park). For the last couple of years, I've earned more than enough points to take care of my season passes.
But like a previous poster said, the staffing typically is lower at this time of year. It was great over the summer, with most rides running 2 trains.
I also visited 3 other SF parks this summer, GAdv, GAm, and MM, and they all had efficient staffing also.
During the Halloween Weekends last year, there were few staff members in place to control the lines leading to haunted attractions. The lines bunched up, and those of us with manners ended up waiting 3 hours for attractions which the unruly mob waited only minutes to see.
Every visit I've made to Six Flags Great Adventure in the past two years has been an annoyance.
However, at nearby parks like Dorney Park and Sesame Place, my experiences have all been great!
I'm not making any financial judgment regarding Six Flags. And, I can't say that I'll never go there again. They do have great rides! But, I commiserate with the author about their staffing and the general experience.
During the Halloween Weekends last year, there were few staff members in place to control the lines leading to haunted attractions. The lines bunched up, and those of us with manners ended up waiting 3 hours for attractions which the unruly mob waited only minutes to see.
Every visit I've made to Six Flags Great Adventure in the past two years has been an annoyance.
However, at nearby parks like Dorney Park and Sesame Place, my experiences have all been great!
I'm not making any financial judgment regarding Six Flags. And, I can't say that I'll never go there again. They do have great rides! But, I commiserate with the author about their staffing and the general experience.
Many parks/stadiums/enterta... centers all charge the same prices for food and most people never pay full admittance fee's (it is cheaper online and stores in the area around the park have big discounts).
I sorry you had a bad experience at one of their parks but they have around 15 others. I have been to many of these parks and your comments sound specific to one park not the company as a whole.
Open spaces, kid friendly rides and (fast, friendly, safe, clean service) is what they are striving towards. They have done well in the last two years fixing problems.
I know you don't feel like you got value for you money and that is your experience but the company as a whole and many of there parks have been making great turnarounds already. They have been trying different idea's to reshape the companies image at a select number of parks for a trial period. If these idea's work they will implement them across all of there parks.
Consider Six Flags Discovery Kingdom formally know as Marine World. This park has been transformed form this crappy image of dirty, scattered rides and poor service to a real Theme Park. They have top notch shows, animal attractions, roller coasters and kid friendly rides.
In ending, one bad experience from one park you shouldn't judge the whole company from. They are working on a 5 year turnaround and if you are watching you can see the changes happening. It will take a few years for people to change there mind about the parks but in time it will be a good vacation destination. When I am at the parks iv heard countless times people talking about how there season pass was well worth it and they will be back at least once or twice a month for the whole year. Don't write hate articles if you don't know everything going on inside the company.
Come on, I know Canobie is a nice little park, but it's not home to the World's Number one steel coaster, or one third as many coasters as Canobie. Don't get me started about the flats.
You've got to look around and find discounts, don't just stumble though the gate, wad of cash in hand. There's reentry - pack a lunch and eat in your car, I have five children and we can do it, my children have gone to parks since they were two years old. Season pass parking is a nice deal, $30 for parking at any SF park, all year. Season passes are cheap compared to daily ticket prices.
Come on, I know Canobie is a nice little park, but it's not home to the World's Number one steel coaster, or one third as many coasters as Canobie. Don't get me started about the flats.
You've got to look around and find discounts, don't just stumble though the gate, wad of cash in hand. There's reentry - pack a lunch and eat in your car, I have five children and we can do it, my children have gone to parks since they were two years old. Season pass parking is a nice deal, $30 for parking at any SF park, all year. Season passes are cheap compared to daily ticket prices.
Come on, I know Canobie is a nice little park, but it's not home to the World's Number one steel coaster, or one third as many coasters as Canobie. Don't get me started about the flats.
You've got to look around and find discounts, don't just stumble though the gate, wad of cash in hand. There's reentry - pack a lunch and eat in your car, I have five children and we can do it, my children have gone to parks since they were two years old. Season pass parking is a nice deal, $30 for parking at any SF park, all year. Season passes are cheap compared to daily ticket prices.
Come on, I know Canobie is a nice little park, but it's not home to the World's Number one steel coaster, or one third as many coasters as Canobie, or other rides besides coasters for the matter.
You've got to look around and find discounts, don't just stumble though the gate, wad of cash in hand. There's reentry - pack a lunch and eat in your car, I have five children and we can do it, my children have gone to parks since they were two years old. Season pass parking is a nice deal, $30 for parking at any SF park, all year. Season passes are cheap compared to daily ticket prices.