Apple's Leopard Is Worryingly Windows-Like

Dave Winer is out with his thoughts on the latest "upgrade" to the new Mac OS Leopard.

From Dave: "Talking with a friend a few days ago, he asked what I thought of Leopard. He had installed the new version, like me, the first day it came out. "I'm not liking it," I said. He said something that was simple, profound and revealing: "It's like Windows." It is. It's that unpleasant to use. It disappears for long periods of time. Systems that didn't used to crash now crash regularly. On one system three hard disks were rendered unusable, and I lost a couple of full days restoring them (luckily I had good backups)."

Wow, that does not sound good at all. I'm just not sure what Leopard does for me beyond being the new latest and greatest. I mean, what problems does it solve for me that are not solved now? Like Dave, I switched to the Mac because I hated Windows so much and hated all the constant errors I would get when I used Windows. My Mac experience thus far has been delightful.

But my first impression of Leopard came when Kristopher Tate, our CTO and lead developer of Zoomr IM'd me when he found that Adobe's (ADBE) Flash wasn't compatible with Leopard (he blamed Adobe for this one). The result was that if you upgraded to Leopard, you couldn't upload photos to Zooomr anymore. I will tell you that uploading photos to Zooomr for me is 1000% more important than any tweak to the OS that Apple (AAPL) might throw at me.

Subsequent reports that I've heard about Leopard have not been good. The experience by many is described as buggy and unreliable. The thing about a Mac, the value of a Mac is contained in a single phrase: "It just works." But if it *doesn't* just work then the value of the Mac goes out the window. And it sounds like for a lot of people Leopard just *isn't* working. I'm glad I waited for the upgrade.

Why should I upgrade to Leopard? Is there any compelling reason beyond just trying the latest and newest gadgetry?

Comments

[Jon T]

Good for you flying in the face of every other review out there...

But please, please, don't ever insult Appple, Mac, and its users by saying OSX is like Windows.

One is cheese and the other diamond.

[Werlingdervish]

Bad article title since it covers too much including interface, iCandy use of windows--it dramatically reduces the number of windows etc. for which I was about to disagree. I am a 23 year long Mac user.

Your subject at hand, however, is something I agree with. I will focus on only one issue as there are so many-- slow, troublesome installation without a mapped website to readily find help.

Time machine should have never been setup as part of the complete install. It frequently takes so much time and usually frustration to make it work right right. It could have been done via a pop up dialog box with a "cancel" after the basic install. Further more there is no real "custom install" for installing the app separately by going into the full install procedure.

I for one also had my printer setup utility disappear without warning--couldn't be found in the trash. So I looked for an easy means to restoring it. Get a quick download of the app, right! Wrong!

I hate the revamped Apple download site because it makes one have to burrow into extraneous widget etc. content to find essential drivers etc., Furthermore, it couldn't even bring up what to do with a bad or lost printer setup utility on a search of "printer setup" in a "support" search.

Ok, so I try the installation disk with its options folder there. No full listing or "read me" explanation of content in the options folder so I launch the install of all the extra un-needed drivers hoping that printer setup app was there. This was not illogical since the application is essential for selecting and using any printer driver. It was no where to be found in the drivers folder or on the install disk except as apart of the complete install procedure--2 hours worth--in my first attempt on my Mac Pro. Actually, the first got hung up on Time machine and had to be aborted.

So I tried a complete reinstall. Still no printer setup utility a half hour later-- the full install apparently didn't check to see it was missing.

Thank you Apple for your idiot proof installation. Unfortunately it didn't account for some idiots who designed the install package and downloads web page.

[GARYHirschberg]

There is no Printer Setup Utility in Leopard. Granted, Apple's docs in this area leave a great deal to be desired, but setting up a printer is now much easier and almost automatic. Maybe you should apply for the job of idiot for their future testing.

[Andrea DiSalvo]

Seeking Alpha editors, do you copy?
Please consider accurately selecting articles prior to publishing ... please stop feeding us with this crap.

I love to be challenged but with solid and heavy points ... not with these inconsistent arguments.

Thanks in advance,

Andrea Di Salvo

[imobile]

BS Zoomer ~ have Leopard installed for over four days on a three year old iBook and a January 2006 i Mac Core Duo and both are working FLAWLESSLY.

[imobile]

BS Zoomer ~ have Leopard installed for over four days on a three year old iBook and a January 2006 i Mac Core Duo and both are working FLAWLESSLY.

[imobile]

BS Zoomer ~ have Leopard installed for over four days on a three year old iBook and a January 2006 i Mac Core Duo and both are working FLAWLESSLY.

[jwest]

I read this article after wrestling with Microsoft network issues for the last two days. I was drawn in by the "Windows-like&quo... comparison. After reading the article all I can say is- you've got to be kidding me. It's like comparing a bruise you got when you fell off you training-wheeled bike to a train wreck!

[jwest]

I read this article after wrestling with Microsoft network issues for the last two days. I was drawn in by the "Windows-like&quo... comparison. After reading the article all I can say is- you've got to be kidding me. It's like comparing a bruise you got when you fell off you training-wheeled bike to a train wreck!

[jwest]

I read this article after wrestling with Microsoft network issues for the last two days. I was drawn in by the "Windows-like&quo... comparison. After reading the article all I can say is- you've got to be kidding me. It's like comparing a bruise you got when you fell off you training-wheeled bike to a train wreck!

[jwest]

I read this article after wrestling with Microsoft network issues for the last two days. I was drawn in by the "Windows-like&quo... comparison. After reading the article all I can say is- you've got to be kidding me. It's like comparing a bruise you got when you fell off you training-wheeled bike to a train wreck!

[imobile]

Yah I know, This Hawk ... ( hawk or 'galah'?) has as much credibility as that Stevie B guy from Redmond ....the one who throws chairs and curses a certain 'Google' in his nightmares!

[schininis]

So what you are saying is that for some, Leopard has some bugs. WOW. What insight. New software has bugs . . . imagine that. So to get me to read that dribble you shout, "Apple's Leopard Is Worringly Windows-Like". Could you please give me REAL information instead of this my cousin says it's buggy kind of crap. Spend 5 minutes on the Apple user forum and try to establish WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE!!! Then tell us. That might qualify as news. Or . . . just change your title to "Leopard Might have a Zooomr Upload Bug" because that's the only thing you are actually saying. BTW I've been running Leopard on 3 computers and it works great on all. Strangely it was the 7.3 Quicktime download that messed one of them up, and now the finder is broken, so I will have to re-instal. (If you are using Leopard on a G4 PPC stay away from the Quicktime upgrade . . . an Apple tech told me that) There are some issues with Leopard, and some bugs . . . and it's a good idea to pass that info along. I'm just fine with being critical of APPLE but not if you just stop there . . . I actually want the information because it can be helpful.

[imobile]

I do sometimes wonder how some people keep their computers 'up to date'...? On my Nov 2004, iBookG4 the latest Quicktime Pro (Ver 7.3) works as expected! The only "mess up" I have experienced was Adium seeking permission to change Keychain. I tried all tricks after saying 'yes' ... deleting Adium Preferences, reinstalling latest etc etc... only to discover all I had to do was say "NO" ... when Adium asked to update Keychain and all was well.

[jmmx]

I don't know what the problems are. Yes, I have heard about the zoomer thing, OK Nothing is gonna be a perfect transition. Pick pick Pick pick Pick!

I ADORE Cover Flow!!! It is NOT just fluff! I can browse through documents the way I browse through photos in a photo organizing tool. I can see what is in them, page through them to find what I need. I cannot imagine living without it now.

Faster faster faster! I am sure everything seems much faster. In particular they fixed my pet peeve - the time it takes to start a new email msg. Even to forward a msg with several imbedded pix - 1-and-2-and there it is! used to be like 10 - 20 seconds - awful!

SPACES - just fantastic. I write and do photography, and frequently have 3 web browsers going. So now I have one space for LightRoom and other photo work, one for Camino with 6 - 10 investment windows open, another for communications, and another for miscellaneous personal stuff.

So I don't know what all this negative is. Maybe if I had to administer 60 machines I would have had other problems.

Personally - I am happy as a clam with Leopard.

Anything I would change? Sure! Please take the word "yo" out of the dictionary - or better yet, give me a tool to do so myself. I am extremely dys-typsic and am always missing the 'u' in you. Pick pick Pick pick Pick pick!

jmmx - Portland Oregon

[octanestudios]

I'm a web developer and I have seen no compatibility issues with flash, either on the web viewing or the development side.

The idea that flash doesnt work on leopard is false.

[octanestudios]

I'm a web developer and I have seen no compatibility issues with flash, either on the web viewing or the development side.

The idea that flash doesnt work on leopard is false.

[octanestudios]

I'm a web developer and I have seen no compatibility issues with flash, either on the web viewing or the development side.

The idea that flash doesnt work on leopard is false.

[octanestudios]

I'm a web developer and I have seen no compatibility issues with flash, either on the web viewing or the development side.

The idea that flash doesnt work on leopard is false.

[octanestudios]

I'm a web developer and I have seen no compatibility issues with flash, either on the web viewing or the development side.

The idea that flash doesnt work on leopard is false.

[GARYHirschberg]

First of all, anyone who installs an upgrade on the first day it is issued is an idiot and not competent to make any comments whatsoever on how good or bad the upgrade is.

Secondly, I don't know what garbage you have on your machine, how up-to-date you keep your software (apps not just OSX, or what kind of Unix maintenance you perform on your machine, but I'd bet anything that the fault is yours. I waited about a week, checked Mac Fixit for problematic areas, checked Adobe, Epson, and other companies whose products I used for notes on Leopard issues, downloaded "fixes" where available, and have no problems of any significance. I use all of Adobe's programs (Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver, Acrobat Pro), Good Olde Office (unfortunately, but switching to iWork soon), 4th Dimension database, Aperture, and many more. All work flawlessly because I took the time to check things out first, which any knowlegable person would do. You have some serious problems with your setup, and they are not due to Apple.

And lastly, to say that Leopard is "Windows-Like&quo... indicates either complete ignorance of the two systems, or you are a paid Microsoft Shill. Which is it?

[GARYHirschberg]

First of all, anyone who installs an upgrade on the first day it is issued is an idiot and not competent to make any comments whatsoever on how good or bad the upgrade is.

Secondly, I don't know what garbage you have on your machine, how up-to-date you keep your software (apps not just OSX, or what kind of Unix maintenance you perform on your machine, but I'd bet anything that the fault is yours. I waited about a week, checked Mac Fixit for problematic areas, checked Adobe, Epson, and other companies whose products I used for notes on Leopard issues, downloaded "fixes" where available, and have no problems of any significance. I use all of Adobe's programs (Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver, Acrobat Pro), Good Olde Office (unfortunately, but switching to iWork soon), 4th Dimension database, Aperture, and many more. All work flawlessly because I took the time to check things out first, which any knowlegable person would do. You have some serious problems with your setup, and they are not due to Apple.

And lastly, to say that Leopard is "Windows-Like&quo... indicates either complete ignorance of the two systems, or you are a paid Microsoft Shill. Which is it?

[GARYHirschberg]

First of all, anyone who installs an upgrade on the first day it is issued is an idiot and not competent to make any comments whatsoever on how good or bad the upgrade is.

Secondly, I don't know what garbage you have on your machine, how up-to-date you keep your software (apps not just OSX, or what kind of Unix maintenance you perform on your machine, but I'd bet anything that the fault is yours. I waited about a week, checked Mac Fixit for problematic areas, checked Adobe, Epson, and other companies whose products I used for notes on Leopard issues, downloaded "fixes" where available, and have no problems of any significance. I use all of Adobe's programs (Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver, Acrobat Pro), Good Olde Office (unfortunately, but switching to iWork soon), 4th Dimension database, Aperture, and many more. All work flawlessly because I took the time to check things out first, which any knowlegable person would do. You have some serious problems with your setup, and they are not due to Apple.

And lastly, to say that Leopard is "Windows-Like&quo... indicates either complete ignorance of the two systems, or you are a paid Microsoft Shill. Which is it?

[GARYHirschberg]

First of all, anyone who installs an upgrade on the first day it is issued is an idiot and not competent to make any comments whatsoever on how good or bad the upgrade is.

Secondly, I don't know what garbage you have on your machine, how up-to-date you keep your software (apps not just OSX, or what kind of Unix maintenance you perform on your machine, but I'd bet anything that the fault is yours. I waited about a week, checked Mac Fixit for problematic areas, checked Adobe, Epson, and other companies whose products I used for notes on Leopard issues, downloaded "fixes" where available, and have no problems of any significance. I use all of Adobe's programs (Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver, Acrobat Pro), Good Olde Office (unfortunately, but switching to iWork soon), 4th Dimension database, Aperture, and many more. All work flawlessly because I took the time to check things out first, which any knowlegable person would do. You have some serious problems with your setup, and they are not due to Apple.

And lastly, to say that Leopard is "Windows-Like&quo... indicates either complete ignorance of the two systems, or you are a paid Microsoft Shill. Which is it?

[GARYHirschberg]

First of all, anyone who installs an upgrade on the first day it is issued is an idiot and not competent to make any comments whatsoever on how good or bad the upgrade is.

Secondly, I don't know what garbage you have on your machine, how up-to-date you keep your software (apps not just OSX, or what kind of Unix maintenance you perform on your machine, but I'd bet anything that the fault is yours. I waited about a week, checked Mac Fixit for problematic areas, checked Adobe, Epson, and other companies whose products I used for notes on Leopard issues, downloaded "fixes" where available, and have no problems of any significance. I use all of Adobe's programs (Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver, Acrobat Pro), Good Olde Office (unfortunately, but switching to iWork soon), 4th Dimension database, Aperture, and many more. All work flawlessly because I took the time to check things out first, which any knowlegable person would do. You have some serious problems with your setup, and they are not due to Apple.

And lastly, to say that Leopard is "Windows-Like&quo... indicates either complete ignorance of the two systems, or you are a paid Microsoft Shill. Which is it?

[GARYHirschberg]

First of all, anyone who installs an upgrade on the first day it is issued is an idiot and not competent to make any comments whatsoever on how good or bad the upgrade is.

Secondly, I don't know what garbage you have on your machine, how up-to-date you keep your software (apps not just OSX, or what kind of Unix maintenance you perform on your machine, but I'd bet anything that the fault is yours. I waited about a week, checked Mac Fixit for problematic areas, checked Adobe, Epson, and other companies whose products I used for notes on Leopard issues, downloaded "fixes" where available, and have no problems of any significance. I use all of Adobe's programs (Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver, Acrobat Pro), Good Olde Office (unfortunately, but switching to iWork soon), 4th Dimension database, Aperture, and many more. All work flawlessly because I took the time to check things out first, which any knowlegable person would do. You have some serious problems with your setup, and they are not due to Apple.

And lastly, to say that Leopard is "Windows-Like&quo... indicates either complete ignorance of the two systems, or you are a paid Microsoft Shill. Which is it?

[Q]

wow. Try using Leopard sometime - maybe then you can comment intelligently.

As a 15 year programmer in windoze I am happy to never to have to go back to that crap - Leopard is in a whole other league. Hardly ever have any issues at all, and I push the thing.

[Q]

wow. Try using Leopard sometime - maybe then you can comment intelligently.

As a 15 year programmer in windoze I am happy to never to have to go back to that crap - Leopard is in a whole other league. Hardly ever have any issues at all, and I push the thing.

[Tommo_UK]

I think you shouldn't upgrade at all. Your "issues" reach beyond Leopard.