Donald F. Dillon - Chairman
Jeffery W. Yabuki - Chief Executive Officer, President and Director
Fiserv, Inc. (FISV) Annual Meeting May 23, 2012 11:00 AM ET
Donald F. Dillon
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Don Dillon, Chairman of the Board of Fiserv. On behalf of all of us, welcome to the annual meeting. This meeting is being broadcast live over the Internet at fiserv.com, and an archive will be available on our website following this meeting.
Before we begin, allow me to recognize Pete Kight, who is retiring from the board as of this meeting. Pete was the Founder and Chairman and CEO of CheckFree, which as you know, by developing electronic bill payment, forever changed the way we pay bills. Since our acquisition of CheckFree in 2007, Pete has provided Fiserv with invaluable leadership and insights. Pete could not be with us today, but on behalf of us, I'd like to say, all of us at Fiserv and our shareholders, we thank Pete for his energy, his enthusiasm, his commitment. He will be missed by this board.
Let us also take a moment to acknowledge the passing of one of the founders of Fiserv, George Dalton, who served as Chairman and CEO from Fiserv's inception to 1999. As of George's retirement, he kept active interest in the company. And one never knew when he might pick up the phone and call you to check on the business or quite actually, to offer his advice. But that was George. Fiserv was family to him. He'll be missed.
Now allow me introduce the gentlemen joining me at the front of the room: Jeff Yabuki, President and Chief Executive Officer; Tom Hirsch, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer; and Eric Nelson, Vice President and Associate General Counsel. In addition, allow me to introduce the members of the Board of Directors here today, Dan Kearney, a financial consultant; Denis O'Leary, managing partner of Encore Financial Planners -- Partners, I mean; Glenn Renwick, President and CEO of Progressive Corporation; Kim Robak, partner of the law firm, Mueller & Robak, LLC; Doyle Simons, a private investor and Former Chairman -- did I say -- did I do that again to you, Doyle? I've got this mental block in his last name. I say Simmons as opposed to Simons all the time. It's just pathetic -- former Chairman and CEO of Temple-Inland Inc. And due to that, I worried about that for 2 days and I ended up doing it exactly the same. And Mr. Tom Wertheimer, a financial consultant and retired partner of PricewaterhouseCoopers. Also present in the audience, representing Deloitte & Touche LLP, is Kristine Obrecht.
Now onto the meeting. Having been designated by the Board of Directors of the company to preside at this meeting, I shall act as Chairman and call the meeting to order. The Board of Directors fixed March 28, 2012, as the record date for the determination of shareholders entitled to vote at this meeting. Eric Nelson will act as secretary of the meeting. Eric, will you please report as to the mailing of the notice of this annual meeting.
Mr. Chairman, as secretary of this meeting, I have received an affidavit from Broadridge Financial Solutions, which certifies that the Notice of Annual Meeting of Shareholders was mailed beginning April 12, 2012, and that with each such notice, there was enclosed a proxy statement, a proxy and an annual report.
Donald F. Dillon
Thank you. The affidavit will be included in the minutes of this meeting.
All persons in attendance who have not sent in their proxy cards and who intend to vote may now sign and return a proxy card. If you need a proxy card, please raise your hand. Very good. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Donald F. Dillon
Thank you. Chris Sundberg [ph], our third-party inspector of elections, will act as Inspector of the Elections of this meeting. Ms. Sundberg [ph], please report on the attendance of this meeting and whether a quorum is present.
Approximately 90% of the company's outstanding shares have been forwarded and there is therefore a quorum.
Donald F. Dillon
Since a quorum is present as determined by the bylaws of Fiserv, this meeting is now legally convened, and we shall proceed with the orders of business. The first matter of business is to consider and vote upon the election of Dan Kearney and Jeff Yabuki to serve on the Board of Directors for a term of 3 years. The company has received proxies from its shareholders, authorizing the proxy holders to cast at least 105 million votes, approximately 97% of votes cast for each of the board's nominees. And as a proxy holder, I hereby cast these votes accordingly.
Based on a report of the inspector that the board's nominees have received sufficient votes to be elected, I hereby declare them elected.
The second matter of business to consider and vote upon, an amendment to our Articles of Incorporation that would eliminate the classified structure of our board and provide for an annual election of directors as set forth in the amendment, a copy of which has been included in the proxy statement. The company has received proxies from its shareholders, authorizing the proxy holders to cast at least 108 million votes, approximately 99% of the votes cast, for the adoption of the amendment. And as a proxy holder, I hereby cast those votes.
Based on the report from the inspector that the proposal received sufficient votes to be approved, I declare the that shareholders have approved the amendment to our Articles of Incorporation.
The third matter of business is to consider and vote upon the performance goals and related matters under the Fiserv, Inc. 2007 Omnibus Incentive Plan. The company has received proxies from its shareholders, authorizing the proxy holders to cast at least 104 million votes, approximately 97% of the votes cast for the approval of the performance goals and the related matters under the plan. And as proxy leader, I hereby cast those votes accordingly.
Based on the report from the inspector that the proposal received sufficient votes to be approved, I declare that the shareholders have approved the performance goals and related matters under the plan.
The fourth matter of business to be considered and voted upon is the resolution to approve on an advisory basis the compensation for our named executive officers. The company has received proxies from its shareholders, authorizing proxy holders to cast at least 102 million votes, approximately 94% of votes cast for the resolution. As a proxy holder, I hereby cast those votes accordingly.
Based on the report from the inspector that the resolution received sufficient votes to be approved, I declare that the shareholders have approved the compensation of our named executive officers.
The next matter is to ratify the audit committee selection of Deloitte & Touche LLP as the independent registered public accounting firm of the company for 2012. The company has received proxies from the shareholders, authorizing proxy holder to cast at least 119 million votes, approximately 98% of the votes cast for the proposal. As a proxy holder, I hereby cast those votes accordingly.
Based on the report from the inspector that sufficient votes have been cast to ratify the selection of Deloitte & Touche LLP, I declare that, that selection has been ratified.
At this time, I would like to reintroduce Kristine Obrecht of Deloitte & Touche. Ms. Obrecht, do you have any statement to make?
I have no statement, but I will be available during the question-and-answer period to answer any shareholder's question. Thank you.
Donald F. Dillon
Thank you, Ms. Obrecht. In accordance with our bylaws, in order for a shareholder to bring a matter of business or a proposal before the meeting, the shareholder must provide proper notice of the matter of business or proposal to the secretary of the company. The notice must have been received by the secretary the company by February 28, 2012. As no such notice had been received by the secretary of the company, no further business or proposals may be brought before this meeting.
Therefore, as there is no further business, the formal meeting is adjourned. Now it is my great pleasure to introduce our President and CEO, Jeff Yabuki, to provide an update on the company.
Jeffery W. Yabuki
Thank you, Don. Good morning, everyone. Don has the good part, 7 minutes. That's good. So in addition to Tom Hirsch and Eric Nelson, whom you've already met, let me introduce to you several members of our executive committee who are in attendance today, Jim Cox, Executive Vice President, Corporate Development; Shawn Donovan, Senior Vice President and Chief Sales Officer; Mark Ernst, Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer; Mike Gianoni, Group President, Financial Institutions; Rahul Gupta, Group President, Digital Payments; Cliff Skelton, Executive Vice President, Chief Information Officer, and our newest Fiserv senior executive; Steve Tait, Group President, International; and Tom Warsop, Group President, Distribution and Sales.
I can assure you that this management team is keenly focused on delivering value for our clients, our shareholders and our associates. Let me now move on to a brief presentation on 2011 results and a bit about what we expect for this year. Obviously, this presentation has the opportunity to contain forward-looking statements. So familiarize yourself with the large fonts.
2011 actually was quite a good year for the company. We had very strong financial results in terms of we achieved our revenue guidance. We actually ended up with adjusted EPS that was in excess of our expectations for the full year, which we modified during the year. Very importantly, we had 2 quarters -- 2 of the 4 quarters of sales results of the year were actually at record levels. So we set a record in Q2 and then exceeded it again in Q4. And sales, which is obviously a very important part of where we're going, was up 20% on a year-over-year basis.
We also refinanced about $1 billion of debt during the year. We extended our maturities out 7 years, which gives us a lot of flexibility, but also very importantly, a down at a rate below 4%. So we'll have a very good capital structure for years and years to come. We introduced some important new products that are geared on helping us to deliver future growth. Our Relationship Advance product, our mobile ASP, which is a very important product, and a number of other areas.
Also, we did 3 acquisitions in 2011, which we think are quite strategic. We did 4 for the year, but 3 that have a very strategic place in the company. One of them, Maverick, which brought us prepaid solutions to the company, allowing us to help serve banks and other financial institutions, deliver different kinds of products and allow them to earn -- hopefully earn some more revenue.
We acquired M-Com, which is very important. It brought us the best in the world mobile capabilities, both in terms of license, but also our services professionals. And then third, late in the year or in the third quarter of the year, we acquired CashEdge, which allowed us to bring a variety of products that are focused on allowing consumers and small businesses to transact in a digital way with financial institutions. All products that are very important to us in terms of delivering growth but even more important in filling out our strategy, which we'll talk about in a few minutes, and allowing our financial institutions to be more successful, which is critical to our mission.
We have continued to perform well. Going back to the beginning in the global financial crisis back in 2008, we have either been able to be stable. Our growth over that period has gone from 1% to 4%. And actually, we had 5% growth in the first quarter of 2012. So our revenue is growing nicely, and we are in a place where we are continuing to see recurring revenue build for us, which is critical to our future.
At the same time, we've had good solid growth and double-digit earnings growth. And even in the worst times since the Great Depression, we were able to grow our earnings per share at an 11% compound rate.
In terms of our margins, we have very high margins relative to some of the other folks in the industry because we're a scale player in the areas in which we're focused. We actually gave back a little bit of margin in 2011, and that's really because we've been investing significantly in our future into some of the new products that we talked about, some of our acquisitions.
We have, at the same time, since 2007, taken about $315 million out of our cost structure and redirected that largely to new product investment. So we are -- we feel very good about our ability to continue to invest in our future and your future as shareholders and also to deliver very strong results.
And importantly, for those of you who spend time with us, you know we pay a lot of attention to cash and we have grown our free cash flow. Actually, back over the last 5 years since 2007, our free cash flow per share has actually more than doubled. We've gone from $2.54 to $5.09 on a per cash -- a free cash flow per share basis, which is a confluence of both capital allocation, as well as the cash flow characteristics of our model.
One of the things that we're quite proud of is we hit our 26th year in a row of double-digit earnings per share growth from continuing operations. The research that we have seen would say that we are either the only company in the S&P 500 who can make that claim or their -- our next closest competitor is there are 2 other companies in the S&P 500 who can say they have hit 24 of the last 26 years. So we think this is clearly a tribute to the operating model of Fiserv, but also to the strength of the people within Fiserv who get up each and every day to serve clients, but also keep their eye on achieving the objectives that are set in each and every year.
That's translated to some pretty solid equity performance. We've actually beat the S&P 500 in 6 of the last 7 years on a total shareholder return basis, and we beat the S&P 500 for 7 straight years in a row on a nominal basis. So we are performing well versus the indices in -- really in any given period. As it relates to 2012, we actually have gotten off to a pretty good start. As of yesterday, we were about 8 percentage points, 800 basis points ahead of the S&P 500 and 10 percentage points ahead of the Dow over the period. We're up about 12% for the full year.
Now we recognize that given everything that's going on, there'll be some volatility, but we continue to get credit for the business model, the growth opportunities and the quality of our people.
So that's really 2011 and where we've been. I want to move the conversation a bit to our strategy and really where we're going because that should be what matters most, not where we've been, but where we're headed.
This is not a new slide. This is our strategic framework, and this is what we use really at the top of the house. The vision of the company to be differentiated on the basis of technology, base, transaction solutions.
Our mission to deliver these solutions that will allow the financial institutions, the 12,000 financial institutions that do business with us to be the most successful in their markets or where they choose to be. And then lastly, our values, which are critically important in driving this culture, this operating company culture within Fiserv. And we've made very good progress against each of these 3 areas, which we know we still have room to grow, but we're very focused in driving the single-company experience to our clients.
Then the 5 areas across the bottom are the high-level themes that we use to think about the company, whether it's making sure that our portfolio of products is right, do we have the right solutions that will allow our clients to achieve best-in-class results, all the way to are we making the right level of investments in our fifth theme around innovation, and then making sure that it's driving value, making sure that we're allocating capital correctly and ensuring that we are running our company as operationally efficient as we can. So the key here is we believe in any kind of market, this is the right framework for us to consider.
Of course, what we know more than anything is the market and the world is changing quite a bit. What you see in front of you is called a word cloud. And what we've done is we've taken from the top 10 list of the 6 largest IT consulting firms that serve the financial services industry, taken what they have said are the priorities for financial institutions and merged them together into a single view. The larger the word, the more frequent this shows up in their list.
And in fact, what you can see is 5 years ago, no one would've had mobile on the list, right? Social was what you do when you're with your friends. The world is changing a lot. The priorities are changing a lot for financial institutions and their customers. And therefore, us, as the leading provider of financial services technology. This chart that you see in front of you is reflective also of how we think about where we should be putting our investments, payments, into the customer experience, channels, those kinds of things.
And that backdrop manifests itself in our go-to market strategy. It's critical for us to own the digital channels, make sure that as it relates to online banking, mobile, iPad, whatever kind of device. This notion of devices are taking over the world; I don't know how long it will be until I'm viewing Internet on my refrigerator, but what we know is that the world is changing how people interact with their financial institutions or their billers, the retailers, whatever it is. It's all changing, and we need to bring that to the forefront for our clients. And so we characterize that in owning digital channels.
The second item is around winning electronic payments. Electronic payments are critically important. I mentioned we acquired CashEdge last year. That was very important into bringing a set of solutions that not just facilitate payment or money movement transactions, but also ride the rails of those digital channels that I mentioned a moment ago. So very important.
And then third, these are all tied for first and there's no differentiation between the 3, is doing everything we can to drive account processing, to drive the backbone of the financial institutions into the -- largely into the U.S. financial institution base and then provide them on top of the core account processing, provide them with a full suite of high-quality integrated solutions that again allow them to achieve best-in-class results. So those are our main strategies today where we are out there executing. We know where we're going, and we're out there delivering it.
Below that, in the next tier, but just as important, is around -- the fourth item is around expanding our payments and channels presence around the world. We made a change earlier this year to ask Steve Tait to focus our energy on international operations, international opportunities. So we're focused on that right now. It's in a combination of delivery and strategic, but we think that's a very significant opportunity. As much as the U.S. financial -- I'm sorry, the U.S. market is an attractive market because it's large. There is a multiple, exponentially more growth outside the U.S. And today, we're only capturing about 6% of our revenue is outside the U. S, So there's a very important and attractive opportunity for us to grow in the right places outside the United States. And then last but not least is making sure that we are focusing on those trends, on those areas where we can deliver more value.
The chart that you see in front of you right now around solution leadership. We have done a very strong job of building a scale system where we can move new and improved technologies into the world or into our markets. And what you see are the ratings. We're the #1 bill pay provider. We have the #1 e-bill technology. We have the #1 P2P technology, lots of #1s, top 5 debit provider, and so on. But what matters most is scale. Today, we serve over 100 million unique U.S. consumers with these technology solutions that you see in front of you. Now they all don't have everything, but on a unique basis, we're touching a very large segment of the U.S. population: 24 million active bill pay users; 66 million checking accounts are processed using our technology; 55 million U.S. households are experiencing the online world through our technologies; and 40 million debit cardholders move over our technology.
So those are some examples of the scale that we have. So as we build new solutions, we're able to put that through that system. It's a great opportunity because we don't have to go build one at a time. We just have to build fantastic products that can move out over that wonderful distribution system that we have, and we're doing that.
Over the last few years, we've increased our level of investment significantly to fund new products and new opportunities that will lead to new growth. There are really 8 areas where we have been focused, both organically and inorganically. We developed a new account processing platform called Acumen, which serves credit unions who are looking to differentiate via technology. We've sold 15 U.S. Acumen clients, including 2 in the first quarter of 2012. So we have some very nice momentum in that space.
We have -- we've won over 1,000 new mobile clients since we introduced that technology just 2.5 years ago, 148 new clients in the first quarter of 2012 alone. Popmoney, which we -- you may remember last year, we talked at this meeting about new ways for people to move money. We talked about our product called ZashPay that we were very excited about. In fact, that was named 1 of the top 10 Ideas to Steal by InformationWeek last year, right?
So instead of letting someone steal that from us, we went out and bought CashEdge and was able to acquire their Popmoney product. And we've now merged them together into something called our Popmoney network, where today, we have over 1,500 financial institutions who have signed up for that technology. And underneath there, there is about 40 million digital users who will have access to that technology beginning in mid-June. We're very, very excited about that new opportunity, but it's, in fact, new and still needs to turn into growth for us.
So those are a few examples. You can see others in front of you. Very importantly, the key -- one of the keys for us is are we doing to see not just results today, but future growth. And the bar chart that you see is in 2010, these 8 product sets -- and these are product sets, not just products. We generated 1% of our sales from these products in 2010. In 2012 -- so these products did not exist. In 2012, 11% of our sales will come from them.
And that's not because our sales are going down; our sales our actually going up, right? So our core sales, our core business sales, not our core account processing, our core business, that's growing and we're also seeing important acceleration on these new products.
So that's a little bit of strategic foundation. Of course, you can only do so much in this section. Let me get it a little bit more focused on 2012. We have 3 key priorities for 2012: Number one, do what we say we're going to do. Meet our financial commitments and continue to increase the level of growth that we see coming from high-quality revenue.
Number two, continue to center the Fiserv culture on growth. And that's not just sales, but sales, service and delivery. It's the holistic experience that we provide to those people who trust us enough to be their partner. That's how we'll actually get to the levels of growth opportunity that we have.
And then third, to make sure that we, as a company, are providing innovation that will allow our clients to be the very best in their markets, which means we have to pay attention to things like that word cloud so that we can be investing in the right places for our clients.
We started the year pretty strong. We had 5% adjusted revenue growth in the first quarter and 18% earnings growth. Frankly, those numbers were a little bit stronger than we thought they would be. They were ahead of our internal plan. And then we did indicate that people should not think that this is necessarily extrapolatable for the rest of the year and that, in fact, we would be on plan but that any perceived over-performance in the first quarter should serve to de-risk performance for the remainder of year as we do see opportunities for volatility throughout the remainder of 2012.
But we do think we're on a good start to the year and we are on track for our full year guidance. We also believe that the results in the second half of the year will be stronger than the first. We said that at the beginning of the year, and we continue to say that.
We're very focused on making sure that we're delivering the right balance between results today and investments for tomorrow. We are very focused on growing high-quality revenue, not just revenue for revenue's sake, but really high-quality revenue that's going to allow our clients to be most successful and allow us at Fiserv to continue to deliver the results that you've come to expect from us. We're -- on balance, we believe we're quite well positioned to create value for our clients and for you, our shareholders.
So with that, let me open the floor a bit to Q&A. Before we do that, I also want to add my thanks to Pete Kight. I wish he was here today, so we could actually embarrass him in person, but he's not. But in the 5 years that I've come to know Pete well, I can tell you that his unique perspective as an innovator and as a transformative leader have been absolutely invaluable to us as a company. And we will miss that. I mean, there is no question we will miss that. But I do want to thank Pete on behalf of not just the people here, but the 20,000 people within Fiserv. We're all grateful for what you've done for us.
So we're now pleased to answer your questions. Now because we're webcasting the meeting, please wait for a microphone -- raise your hand, please wait for a microphone, state your name, and then ask your question. We would ask you to limit it to one question. Anita, perhaps we can get the lights up, and let's see if there are any questions or we can call it a day. Here we go.
My name is Jan Fischer [ph]. My question is how similar to PayPal is your new acquisition?
Jeffery W. Yabuki
That's a great question. So our new acquisition, CashEdge, had a number of different products. But from a person-to-person payments perspective, which is really the analogy to PayPal, I would say that there are clearly similarities. PayPal was really built to allow a consumer to move money to another party. And that's really been largely subsumed in the eBay world, right? The PayPal was fortunate to have the opportunity to really ride the momentum of eBay. And so our P2P product is designed to allow one party to move money to another party. So from that perspective, they are similar. Where they completely diverge is our product is built to make financial institutions successful. So we are a financial institution, bank-friendly product, whether you're a bank, a thrift, a credit union -- I'm using that as an adjective. PayPal is actually designed to work in conflict with the banks. So they -- that's designed to take transaction volume out of the banking system. So that's really the biggest differential at the base level. We also have much more functionality in what we're allowing our products to do. So you'll be able to move money from point A to point B in the country, out of the country, send gift cards and all kinds of -- a gift, send gifts, not gift cards. You obviously can't do that electronically, but all kinds of opportunities to allow consumers to move money really for any purpose, as well as small businesses. We actually are very excited about the small business opportunity that product has, so allowing small businesses to use handheld technology to basically do business anywhere they want at any time they want. Good question. Okay.
Jeff, Eric Schlef [ph]. I saw on the word cloud, one of the main words that was there was Durbin. I'm curious when you're having conversations with the financial institutions and they're talking about the Durbin amendment, where does Fiserv fit? Is there areas we're going to help? Or is there areas that might to hurt the businesses? Just some information around that dialogue would be helpful.
Jeffery W. Yabuki
Yes, it's a great question, Eric [ph]. From -- clearly, Durbin, which is the manifestation of the regulatory challenge and you see that as really the manifestation of the regulatory challenge that's going on in the financial landscape. And that burden cannot be -- we cannot underestimate the impact of that burden on financial institutions. They are spending a significant amount of their time, resources and really mental capacity, trying to navigate that complexity. Where they come to us on is helping them, number one, provide them with technology that is compliant. So we -- especially for the smaller institutions, any changes on the regulatory front, actually, we have to work into our system. So there's a reliance and there's a continuing move to outsourcing. So they view us as, maybe it's -- "maybe that burden is more than I want to deal with. So Fiserv, can you help me?" So that's one. Number two, it's really been how can you help me make money in this new world, right? What products do you have that I can use to replace some of the revenue that we've lost? What are the opportunities? Can you help us think about pricing models? Can you help us think about ways to bundle our products to deliver more? And then third, it's really around how can we help the financial institutions to be more efficient because Durbin is the metaphor for Revenue Reduction Act, and so that means you've got to reduce your costs in some way. And so we're having lots of conversations. We've been having lots of conversations about how can we help financial institutions to reduce their cost structure be more efficient. So it's really those 3 areas where the conversations have been occurring.
Karen Goodland [ph]. We can't close the meeting without the annual question.
Jeffery W. Yabuki
I was so close, though. So close.
When are you guys going to give us some dividends?
Jeffery W. Yabuki
When are we going to give a dividend? So we, as we -- as I have said for each of the years and I'm sure my predecessors said the same thing, I mean, we have clearly looked at dividends. And we have actually done more work over the last 18 months on this question than honestly we had in the 5 years prior that I'm aware of. And so right now, the -- probably, the biggest single question in our mind is the uncertainty in the tax environment. We -- the uncertainty in the tax environment, we think there is a lot of energy right now to begin the tax dividends in a very different way. And we think it's most important for us to provide capital back to our shareholders in the most tax-efficient way possible or at least, let me say that differently, to allow our shareholders to make the decisions that they want to make for themselves around their own tax situation. So as that plays out, we'll continue to put more and more energy to that. I would say that right now, our payout ratio, what we do in terms of the combination of share repurchase and dividends, which dividends is a 0 for us currently, that number is at the very top of the pack. We are very disciplined in putting that money back out. But I do recognize the dividend question. We continue to pay attention to it. And again, we are really waiting right now for some of this tax uncertainty to unfold. And we'll look forward to that question next year.
I'm Mike Norris [ph], a shareholder. Just -- I had recently noticed a company that is competing with Visa and MasterCard, offering businesses the ability to process credit card transactions at a much lower rate. I think it's 2.25% or 2.5%, something like that. I just wanted a sense -- you guys are pretty much in this transaction business, do you see this as a trend? Are these large credit card companies going to be threatened in this way by margin?
Jeffery W. Yabuki
Sure. So I would say that I'm not familiar with who it is you're talking about. But it doesn't surprise me. Who is it?
Jeffery W. Yabuki
Okay, okay. I mean, there are lots of people out there trying to reduce their merchant discount to get more volume. And in fact -- not to get back to the competitor that was raised a few moments ago on P2P, that competitor is in the market right now, trying to significantly reduce the merchant discount as a way to make that more appealing to the merchants. So I think you're going to -- I think the processors will continue to be under pressure in that area. And what's intriguing, as technology advances more and more, it puts more and more pressure on that segment. We are not currently in the merchant processing business. So we're much more observers. I would say interest -- I don't want to say disinterested, but we're observers from a perspective of what's going on. Not only do I believe that there's going to be more pressure there, but I think you're going to see alternatives come into place. You've seen -- most people are familiar with this technology called Square. Square is not a cheap merchant discount, but it's an easy way to turn anyone into a merchant. So you're going to see more and more pressure at that point of sale. And right now, mobile payments just probably -- or using a device to pay for something is getting the most attention. And arguably, you'll see people, I think, try to bring a proposition in there that is far cheaper and that will put more and more pressure on those institutions. All right. Well, we were so close. But we always appreciate the opportunity to get together and have these discussions. Thank you for joining us for the meeting today. We appreciate that. For shareholders who happen to be here with us in Brookfield and you're interested in touring our facility or data centers, we'll have some guides available by the elevators. Thank you again for coming and your support, and have a great day.