Is $3.25 Gas Helping Harley Davidson?

As gas approaches $4 a gallon, are consumers going to switch to two wheels to save money? It would seem early results are... yes. The questions was posed to an Illinois Harley Dealer recently. Shad Zimbro, co-owner of Black Diamond Harley Davidson (HOG) in Marion, Illinois says, "It really is the truth because they do save a lot of money in gas by going to a motorcycle." He says his sales have doubled since last year.

Motorcycles tend to average about 50 miles a gallon and Harley makes models that get 70. Zimbro says he commutes 40 miles a day to work on his Harley and saves about $100 a week by doing so. It does make perfect sense, but obviously we need more data to see if it is just a regional trend or a larger one. The significance of this increase though, is impressive and that does lead me to believe it may be more than a local event.

In January Harley issued 2008 guidance above the consensus estimates, so perhaps they are seeing something? We'll have to wait until late spring to get more information but I think that this may actually be something larger.

Disclosure: Long HOG.

Comments

[Haley]

They are still having rising inventories, and the LIFO inventory method masks teh huge increase in inventory value decreases as stated deep in the notes section of the 10K.
They make a discretionary product, and consumers' sentment is very low. This has been a horrible stock for 9 months and will continue to be bad until sentiment rises. I will continue to play it to the downside until sentiment rises. Likely at least another 6 months.

[user 2lakes]

'Tend to average 50 mpg?' Gezz, I guess my Ford Focus tends to get 40 mpg then instead of 30. Anyway, add it all up before you take the jump guys. Let's see, initial cost , insurance, clothes to wear, minus actual useage because of weather restrains, present car payments plus the new ones on the bike. Wow, not much savings is there?
For commuting a small used car that gets 35 mpg and that you can drive year around really makes more sense and is probably safer in heavy traffic. Maybe when you compare a SUV getting 15-20 mpg a bike looks really good.
But the energy crisis we have right now has been coming for a lot of years, it seems nobody seen it coming because they kept buying the biggest trucks and building huge houses. Well, now you got to pay the pipper his due. Enjoy the present because the future looks all down hill.

[TomS]

Two comments:
First are we supposed to believe that a Harley Dealer DOUBLED his sales. That is a preposterous idea.
Secondly, owner Shad Zimbro commutes 40 miles daily and let's say he's a workaholic and puts in 25 days per month, thats 1000 miles per month; at 50mpg equals 20 gallons of gas. He saves $100 per month? At $3.25 X 20gallons = $65
Todd Sullivan should do a little thinking before putting his name on such shoddy research. I hope he is not inveting on behalf of anyone other than himself.

[SJC]

Well he did disclose his long position... HOG is a boomer brand, and these people are getting older and older, and soon will not be able to properly balance a 700 lb bike.

Among younger people? They ride dual sport bikes, dirt bikes, and Japanese racing bikes, which push the limit of aerodynamics and engine technology. Harley is going backwards, and are just banking on traditional engine designs and styling. (We all know how well that worked for the BIG 3, muscle car resurgence, i.e 2004 Pontiac GTO ) They are desperate, they've just become a cheesy marketing company. Harley rally? Hardly.

[Maniac inMotion]

HOG is the complete opposite of any inflation play one would want to take. HOG sells a product based on considerable disposable income. HOG is not green. Although it has 70 miles/gallon, that's 70 miles/gallon for one person. What about your wife and 3 kids Protestant? One must consider cost to travel per person. Moreover, it's easy to double sales if he increased sales from 3 bikes to 6 bikes. It still doesn't answer how he will clear the other 100 bikes collecting dust on his lot.

We are in a recession being considered more and more like the 1930's. And with a Bear Stearns government bailout, the unfolding events make me think economists will no longer just joke around with words. The cash-strapped consumer is not likely to put her 5 year-old daughter on the back of a Harley to visit Big Lots. A family would likely rather buy a smaller compact vehicle because everyone can get in, and the cost to buy a compact car is cheaper than buying a self-serving Harley.

HOG suffers from a "Love the company hate the stock" sentiment. I'm sorry captain, gotta think with your wallet, not with your heart.

[maverick]

There is no Harley that gets 70 mpg in typical use. Even the smallest Sportster would have be driven at a steady speed at the lowest speed recommended for fifth gear, probably something like 45-50 mph where air drag (which rises exponentially with velocity) isn't yet dramatic. The big bikes probably get 35-40 mpg in everyday use, and the Sportsters probably get 40-50 mpg in everyday use. All that shaking is energy being wasted. The previous comments about discretionary spending are dead-on, plus Harley has a much bigger problem looming. Their new water-cooled engine has not been widely accepted by it's customers, and not just because of it's high cost. The hog image is mainly dependent upon the sound from the (now intentionally) improperly balanced crankshaft configuration, but appearance isn't far behind. The customers prefer the appearance of the old, air/oil cooled engines. But those engines must be assembled with a more sloppy piston clearance to avoid siezing in hot weather, and that makes passing ever-rising emissions regulations difficult. Harley may not be able to sell air/oil-cooled engines at some point, and their sales will collapse. Catalytic converters can be added, and even direct-fuel injection, but these will drive prices dramatically higher. Plus they break from tradition as well in terms of technology and appearance, creating additional marketing troubles.

[mrbob]

TomS,

The article may be right in that the seller may be saving "$100 on gas a week."

The article says 40 miles 'to' work so that makes 80 miles a day.

Do this 6 days a week and that is 480 miles of commuting a week.

If a bike does 50 mpg then the gallon usage is 9.6 gallons a week on a Harley.

If he used an SUV gas guzzler getting around 12 mpg, then he bought 40 gallons of gas a week from the guzzler.

The savings are thus 30.4 gallons a week.

At say $3.25 a gallon this is $98.8 a week in savings.

All of this being said, the guy is 'selling' Harleys so he
will make the most positive comment possible.

Still I think there is some truth to this as I recall
reading somewhere that things like scooters have
taken off in the past couple of years. Yes this
is not a trend that can be extrapolated to all
Harley sales but on the margin it probably is helping
a bit.

The big picture is Harley's product is discretionary and expensive. But the company is a strong cash generating machine
and though I see troubles continuing in 2008, over time
the situation will improve. For instance, foreign
sales are very strong right now as the weaker dollar
and the iconic name have meant buyers are buying. Domestic
sales were down about 14 or 15% in Q4 2007, international
sales were up about 17%. International is still
smaller in aggregate.

I think the company is on its way to retiring 33%
of its outstanding shares when all is said and done
over the next couple of years - from something
around 302 million a few years ago to currently
around 238 million and (my guess) something
close to 200 million over the next few years. They
bought back 20 million in 2007. It looks to me like
they are parlaying a billion a year so perhaps
we get 30 million this year. (I don't know if this
much is authorized, but I suspect the company
will be aggresive in any case.)

The dividend yield is 3.3% with no threat to its
existence. In fact if I were Harley I'd perhaps
nominally increase this but keep the buybacks
coming.

Debt to fund the buybacks can bite you but
Harley should not run into major problems as
long as they don't get too silly.

I have a small long term position and continue
to buy opportunistically.

[LadyHD]

Harley Davidson is not just a boomer generation MC. I have been riding HDs and owed them all my live I am 66 and female. My husband is 69 and is still riding. I have an 84 Sportser all customized and still can handle it. However I will continue to ride and plan on converting it to a trike. We bought HD stock when if first was issued @ 10.00 a share. Every time it rose and split we bought more. We sold some of it five years ago to build our retirement home on 72 acres in NC.A 2000 sq foot customed built log home.We retired from NY three years ago. Harley has paid tremendous dividends that we have reininvested over the years. We own four Harley Davidsons a 1965 HD a 1975 on and off road HD a1980 HD dresser and a 1984 sporster and they are all still running.Harley Davidson is considered a status symbol in foreighn countries and will live on long after are gone. It is a great American symbol. MY son and 6 year old granddaughter loves them. WE were founding members of LI Hog and I was one of the first 50 Ladies of Harley.
We went to th 90th, 95th and 100th Homecoming.We are still considering the 105th anniversary.All our bikes will go to our son and granddaughter when we are gone. However we are considering buying a new one soon. Harley Davidson stock and income has made us comfortable in our retirement years and it will live on for another 100 years.

[Ushii-san59]

The Buell Blast which uses a single cylinder HD produced engine will achieve 60 to 70mpg. The HD touring models are realistically 35 to 40 mpg and the softtail/dyna families will do 40 to 50mpg.
My Vibe get 35mpg in the summer and 31mpg in the winter and it has heat and air conditioning!

[taoshum]

Just check the attendance at Sturgis, SD in August and the 105th anniv rally in WI this summer. If it is way down, then HD will continue to fall. If it is steady or up... HD will thrive.

[Harleyd]

I laugh at you stock jockies. I work for large Harley-Davidson dealership in Atlanta, GA. We are selling Motorcycles as usual this year, in fact we are on track to sell over 100 this month. Daytona Bike week was packed this year. People buy Harley-Davidsons because it is a life style. Your an accountant during the week, but come weekends your a biker. There are alot of reasons why Harley has done so well over the years, but the major reason is that we are a rock solid company with transparent balance sheets. We hire only people with a love for the Harley-Davidson Brand and America! So all you bloggers who have a love for your weenie compact cars and Japanese sport bikes, and overall distain for America.... Go buy yourself a honda scooter and tell yourself "your the man".

[123dudehd]

I like the above comment, this is very true, sales arent really that bad, once good weather approaches you will see sales go up even more!! Yeah like he said get on some jap bike or rev the little honda [Comment edited for abusive content. Commenter put on watch.] and say wow i can now go out and beat a escort haha blah blah jap bikes and cars and all the made in china crap....we wonder why the economy is messed up maybe its because were surrounded by foreign counterparts hmmmmmmmm..........

[Ladyrider]

I've been riding for 20+ years and to those that can sit in judgement of Harley.Let me point out they have been around for 105 years now and if you look at the history you would see that they have been through many bad times, not only with finances but also reputation. And they are bigger then ever in all ways. They will come out of this economical slump just fine, With no thanks to the people that are thinking so negative because honestly there's no one that can't say that if American's would have invested more in America, meaning work more of our jobs purchased more of our products (like H-D)(and not like China that has possioned almost every thing...... most important our kids) WE WOULD NOT BE IN THIS POSITION NOW.
I'm sure we could go on and on about this but instead just let me say If I have to explain you wouldn't understand! LadyHD Thanks and may good things continue to come your way... I also have 3 so I know how you feel... keep riding..stay safe.

[Poonster]

I ride bikes, but not Harleys. Still, I bought 50 shares this week at $34 and I'll hold for the long term. Name me any stock that's only going up these days and I'll get on my knees for you. People who don't ride bikes really don't understand this at all. When it's hot, cold, wet, whatever, a bike doesn't seem very practical. But people in cars don't wave to each other, do they? Harleys are a niche product, but it's a good niche and they've actually improved the engineering and reliablity over the years. You see what appears to be a very old-style bike, but underneath it's completely modern. Heck, I used to own a Honda Shadow that was "de-engineered&qu... to a single crankpin so that it would sound more like a Harley!

[mallarde]

I commute everyday to work rain or shine -- not on a Harley. To most motorcyclists, Harleys are about as practical as an ice sculpture. The notion that someone would buy a Harley in order to save money commuting to work is nonsense. Harleys are purely discretionary. They are over twice as much as many high-quality and high-performing motorcycles. I look at them like boats. They are something to play with on the weekends. (Personally, I do not care for them. As a motorcyclist, I think all the artifice is silly.)

I have been playing this stock on the downside because I see a lot of risk in the domestic market. I think a lot of their customer base bought Harleys in flush times. Those times look like they are over. I also think Harley faces a big demographic conundrum. Older people do not ride 800-lb motorcycles. The only upside possibility I see would be developing the overseas market. I do not have a feel for the brand's appeal overseas.

Of course, I do not think Harley will go out of business anytime soon, but there are considerable issues facing them.

[bmw99]

I agree totally with Mallade...what a silly conclusion the author poses. Someone going to buy a 20 -25 thousand dollar motorcycle to save on gas. You are either a rider or you are not!!! You just don't jump on a motorcycle and start riding...especially a big fat clumsy Hog...Anyway, most people think riding a motorcycle is crazy...I love it, but it's for pleasure, not commuting. it's a very limited use vehicle. C'mon..get real, you are desperate, you are playing your book...wait till the earnings..they will be horrible and there is no end in sight...the stock will be in the 20's...maybe teens..that has collapsed...the major demographic that would buy a Harley is wiped out....equity loans pay for Harleys...bye..bye..

[mallarde]

That is what I was thinking -- "Equity loans pay for Harleys." How many Harley buyers pay cash? How many Harley buyers are in a position to take out a $20K loan on a discretionary item? Seems like a perfect storm, except for international sales. These are growing. How much appeal does the brand have overseas? Perhaps a lot, perhaps little. Personally, I can't see these bikes being a big hit in Europe. Maybe wealthy Asians would buy them as a status symbol.

Do not let your dislike of the product overinfluence your trading. (I ride an '04 GSA. I am not crazy about Harleys.)

[mrbob]

BMW99,

The dividend will act as a floor. The company is strong financially and will not sell in the teens at which point its dividend will be well over 6%. In the current interest rate environment investors will buy the stock long before its yield hits 6%. At worst the current yield will be around 4.5% and that means the absolute lowest price is around 27.

Realistically a 4% yield is quite acceptable so 30 is about the lowest it can go before people will buy in.

I am more inclined to think the 35 range plus or minus a few dollars is the low.

2008 will be difficut but the weaker dollar will prevent it from being a disaster.

International sales have grown 50% in 2 years from around 1 billion in 2005 to 1.5 billion in 2007. European market share has jumped from 34% in 2005 to 43% in 2007. The company had a 14% drop in Q4 sales, and a 17% increase in international sales. International sales are 27% of cycle unit sales. Part of this may be because of the weak dollar.

Market share in the US has been holding steady at 50% for the past 5 years. There is some chance that foreign bikes are even less competitive now with the weaker dollar.

Dividend increased 31% compared to 2006.

The demographic is: "The average U.S. retail purchaser of a new Harley-Davidson motorcycle is a married male in his mid to late forties (nearly two-thirds of U.S. retail purchasers of new Harley-Davidson motorcycles are between the ages of 35 and 54) with a median household income of approximately $84,300."

"Buell attracts customers in the demographic age range of 25 to 55. The average U.S. retail purchaser of a new Buell XB motorcycle is a forty-year old male. The majority of new Buell owners have a median household income of approximately $80,900."

These are fairly affluent customers and not quite the same as sub-prime. They are being affected but probably not to cataclysmic proportions.

Disclosure: I am long. This is a small position. I add regularly.

[mallarde]

50% of the U.S. market share? No way is that possible. If it were true, it would be a bad thing because it would mean there is a lot of room to fall in terms of U.S. sales.

Median income of $80K is not very good for a company that sells toys for $20K, IMO. $80K for a married couple with any children is struggling to get by. This demographic is facing the music right now.

Harley's brand could succeed overseas. I'm thinking of Levi's, another American icon that foreigners love. But near term, I think Harley's domestic sales could be in a free fall right this very moment.

[mrbob]

Mallarde,

Re: "50% of the U.S. market share? No way is that possible." My data came from page 9 of the recently filed 10-K. I thought everyone knew that Harley was dominant in its segment! Second is Honda at 14%, third is Suzuki at 13%, fourth is Yamaha at 9%.

Median income of 84K which is relevant to Harley buyers is more relevant than 80K the number pertaining to Buell buyers because HOG gets much more revenue from Harleys than Buells. This is the 85th percentile of households in the US. These are probably people in their mid 40s, so with children probably around the teenage years on average. A 20k cycle on a 5 year amortization schedule at about 6.5% with 4k down is something like $300 a month.

Another point many people forget is Harleys generally don't depreciate all that much. So getting back to is $3.25 gas helping Harley, in general, if you can commute on a bike that gets much better mileage AND does not really depreciate that much you come out way ahead than if your choice was a decent car that did depreciate at a higher rate.

Example:

Car gets 25 mpg and loses 40% of its value in 3 years. If the car cost 20,000, and the driver drove it 20 miles round trip to work, the whole deal costs him about 280 dollars a month in gas and depreciation.

A Harley in a place in the country where it can be driven year around (so parts of FL, TX, CA) say for 20,000, and with a similar commute, costs the driver 90 dollars a month in gas and depreciation.

Thus the Harley owner is up about 200 dollars a month.

---

Getting back to current Harley sales they are probably not ideal but the bigger question is how will the stock react? Housing sucks but the housing stocks are up strongly this year. When Harley reported Q4, it gapped up at the open though it closed lower at 37 something. When Citi removed it from its list on Friday the 14th, it did not respond too negatively. It is higher now than it was during both those days.

In conclusion, HOG is probably having a difficult year but the stock reflects a lot of bad news, the dividend yield will support the stock as the yield will probably not go lower than 4 or 5%, international sales are likely very strong, the US is weak but everyone, their mother and their pet knows this by now, housing stocks and related retail stocks are going up with the recent actions at the Fed. All of these suggest the stock is closer to a bottom and it never fails to buy strong companies when blood is in the streets. After all not too many brand names I know of have the loyalty and fanaticism of Harley buyers.

[mallarde]

mrbob, I understand all of your positive points, but I see flaws in each of them.

Not that this is a positive point, but Harley does not have a 50% market share in the U.S. in terms of street bikes. I thought we were talking about street bikes, not a self-defined segment thereof. This is from a press release: "Harley currently holds more than 49 percent annual market share of heavyweight motorcycles in the U.S. and more than 30 percent worldwide." Now what does "heavyweight"... mean? Is anything as heavy as a Harley? Only some of its Japanese imitators. That is probably the segment they are talking about. I'll bet Harley has a market share of about 5-10% of street bikes in the U.S.

Yes, $20K for a bike appears more affordable if you leverage it. But isn't the big lesson middle class Americans are learning is that they have over-leveraged their lives?

Doesn't your Harley vs. car assume that someone buys a Harley instead of a car? Not many do that. They buy a Harley in addition to a car.

I see no one commute on a Harley. Maybe on an odd Friday, I see someone ride one to work. And I'm in SoCal, a node of cruiser bike culture.

I respect your idea of buying this on weakness. Yes, the news is out that they are having weak sales. "The street," however, does not always have a gut sense of what is going on as well as observant non-pros. If sales have fallen off a cliff, the pros sitting in offices in NYC might not know it yet.

And what is the vision for this company longer term? Will younger generations, who don't know what Easy Rider is, gravitate to this brand? Will they go deep into debt for a status symbol? Will wealthy Asians buy into these? Are they big enough to handle them? That is a question no one asks. Parking a 800-lb bike in a tight spot requires a big body.

Also, has management ringed all the cash possible out of the brand? I think they have really flogged this brand, to a degree. Harley do-rags, Harley T-shirts, Harley napkin holders, etc. I'm not sure this management has been a good steward of the brand. This sort of overexposure can be poison.

One last thing: with regard to overseas sales, foreign governments really savage foreign luxury moto brands. BMWs are amazingly expensive overseas. I have rented them overseas, and people look at me like I am driving a Ferrari. They can be 50% more expensive overseas for the consumer. That is what Harley is finding out in India, where the government insisted on a luxury tax.

[mrbob]

Mallarde,

I only consider the company's subsegment as that is the only market in which it plays. Heavyweight is over 750cc and Harley uses 651cc and over in its 10-K table. If you look at Harley's margins you can see that if you can find a niche it will translate to strong cash flow.

Regarding demographics, in addition to the strong European demand (1000 basis point improvement over the last few years in market share) there is a large segment of the BRIC populations that is growing and getting ready to buy. Luxury taxes will be a problem and it remains to see how severe it will be. Certainly with 17% growth in Q4 it did not prove to be a huge gating factor. Other markets that make sense over time include the Middle East.

Regarding younger people that has been a complaint for 8 - 10 years now. Here the international cohort will help as it is much bigger than the US cohort. Over the next 10 - 15 years as the big US boomlets mature Harley should have a reasonably large cohort of buyers.

Regarding cost, the other point about low depreciation is that Harleys even though they may be not cheap up front, the net cost of these 'toys' is very low if the after market value 3 years hence is very close to the original price. Thus the owner does not have to pay a lot to use the bike for 3 years. With gas prices going up the cost increases but with good mpg it is not yet prohibitive. The cost of owning the toy is really probably not that high. The bikes are well made. And I have never seen a person unhappy to be riding a bike even if it is only for the weekend.

Finally, management that run strong companies usually don't sit still. They have the power of 'real options' to try and change strategy. I don't think they need to right now but it's their prerogative and they have a strong brand name that they can parlay into new products. I suspect if things were really bad they'd try new things. Usually when this happens and it gets ridiculous ("diworsifying&qu... I'll know something's up. Their movement to Buell in 2003 probably was an example of such a 'real option'.

Some of the best investors of all time continue to hold HOG - Davis, Capital, and Templeton:

finance.yahoo.com/q/mh...

These guys know what they are doing and are streets ahead of the short term thinkers such as hedge funds and their ilk.

Anyway we'll find out come April the 17th just how bad the quarter was. In their end of year conference call they called for 4-7% earnings growth. Couple that with a 3% dividend and a low stock price (protected in turn by the dividend) and the stock has a chance to end up for the year.

[mallarde]

All fair points. Although the demographic complaint has been around for awhile, it might be one that is finally coming to fruition. Just a thought.

Dividends tend to be built in already to the price. More like icing on the cake if you like the stock.

I have to admit this is a much better short at $50 than $38. I am a reluctant (small) short right now and will close out if I can for a small profit -- either before or after the conference call.

Good luck, and maybe we can continue this after we both know more.

[mrbob]

A few more comments:

An insider, a director, bought 100,000 shares in November:

finance.yahoo.com/q/it...

Harley has one of the world's best brands:

bwnt.businessweek.com/.../

They've retired close to 4 Billion dollars of stock over the past 5 years - a rate that has accelerated to 1 billion dollars of stock or so over the past 3 years - I think they should pay off some debt soon as this may be a bit too aggressive:

investor.harley-davids...

The income statements show the 20% reduction in shares (another 10+ million were bought recently per the 10-K, they now have the same adjusted shares as they did more than 20 years ago - amazing) and the strong growth in international revenues (almost doubling in 5 years):

investor.harley-davids...

[mrbob]

Mallarde,

Yeah good luck to you too. Interesting discussion. I am a very long term and slow (very slow) buyer so I don't worry too much about the near term. This is a small position for me and I don't think it is going to the moon anytime soon but it will be interesting to see how it plays out over the next few years. Cheers!

[steaknale]

It seems like there's an awful lot of people with opinions but little to back it up.

I own a 2001 Ford 150 supercrew that gets about 12 mpg. I live an hours driev fro my work, and its all rural, open highway driving.

I will be buying a HD this spring for about $15,000 and using it for work. I've crunched the numbers, and they clearly work. end of discussion.

OI have also owned HOG for 12 years (when they were HDI), and in the long run, the stock always performs. Long-term, No Prob. And as gas prices rise, demands for motorcycles will increase, and no one beats the crowd like HOG.

[another HDgirl]

I have been riding my Harley for 6 years now. I ride it all the time. Even to work. Being a divorced woman over 50, the money is tight and I am doing what I can to conserve gas. I didn't pay $20K or more for it. And yes, I am guilty of using my home equity to buy it several years ago. And I am not in the 80K a year bracket either. Try 40K. I'm just glad I have it now with these soaring gas prices.

[rogerj]

I heard the same arguments a few years ago about harley wasn't a good buy. the dealership in my area are hiring big time.(southern,n.h.).t... weather has been ugly and cold, bikes are still selling. the shorts on the stock will start to cover in the next 30 days. and the stock should get spike up. Also, repairs and parts and softgoods will still be bought no matter what. so befor you make any judgement on a company, go down to your local hd dealership this weekend and see how many are there buying bikes.

the bottom line is most people will get a divorce then sell thier HD. HD Motorcycles are a way of life. people will find a way to buy harley's

[Vin2k]

Mallarde, are you a racist or what? Go get an education or learn something about motorcycles before you open your pie hole. I am an asian and I ride a Night Train, and I DON'T have a problem parking it with my teeny weeny asian body. What a stupid comment. I see lots of women riding Harleys and you mention Asian men not being able to park a Harley. Do you think I am less of a man then you? Why don't you meet me in the octagon and you can find out yourself.

[mallarde]

Vin2k, I see women on Sportsters. Of the 1,000s of full-sized Harleys I have seen in L.A. over the past 8 years, I can recall ZERO WOMEN riding on them -- in the front, at least. And have you been overseas lately? In most countries, our full-sized Harleys are freakishly large. A 250-cc bike is a large bike in most countries.

And if you think it is racist to observe that Asians -- especially in Asia -- are smaller and significantly lighter than Americans then you have spent too many years in our diversity re-education camps often called "universities&quo... Your use of the dreaded R-Word does not scare me one bit. After you spend enough years in the real world, you will see that you are not benefited by being politically correct all the time. It just makes you sound like a drone.

You have to be big and athletic to handle a huge and heavy bike. I am 6'5", way more man than you, and would not want to have to deal with a Harley on my daily commute. I ride a large and heavy bike, but BMW knows how to distribute weight, not just apply chrome onto exhaust pipes.

I guess I am also age-ist for believing that 70-year-olds don't like parking 1,000-lb motorcycles.

Good day.

[MooseFLSTC]

For some people the purchase of a Harley Davidson motorcycle is a discretionary purchase; for others it is a way of life. "If I have to explain - you wouldn't understand" - what a great ad slogan. I own the stockl and own the bike. I have had both for about 8 years. I even bought more stock a few months ago.

[MooseFLSTC]

About saving money, you don't save that much - if any. You have to use 91 octane, change breaks and rear tires at approx 10,000 miles, etc. However, it is nice to fill up for $15 and ride most of the day.

[joehd]

Pices topped $4.05 for regular unleaded yesterday on long island...therefore, $20 to fill up my road king for 375 miles, or my chevy avalanche for $100 for 375 miles....seems like basic economics to me, and all I have to do is put my laptop in my saddlebag and I'm off to work....reality is reality folks.