Visa Estimates Upped Through 2010 93 comments
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SunTrust is out with a pretty major call on Visa (V), reiterating its Buy rating and raising fiscal 2008, 2009 and 2010 EPS estimates and price target. The Firm's target is $100, and new fiscal 2008, 2009 and 2010 EPS estimates are $2.11, $2.96 and $3.82, respectively. These compare with prior 2008, 2009 and 2010 EPS estimates of $2.04, $2.69 and $3.55. These sharply higher estimates reflect firm's confidence in Visa's volume growth, pricing power and operating leverage.
The Firm argues that Visa and MasterCard (MA) are the premier payments companies in their universe. These companies boast the most compelling franchises and exposure to the strongest global secular growth drivers. As a result, they should continue meaningfully outperforming Street mean revenue and EPS expectations. While they appear richly valued, they believe this is more a function of unrealistically low analyst estimates, rather than intrinsically rich multiples. The Firm can support Buy ratings on each as their models make an effort to depict actual earnings power, rather than artificially conservative estimates.
SunTrust's significant fiscal 2009 and 2010 financial projection increases reflect modestly more aggressive volume and transaction growth in fiscal 2009, along with a more bullish view of the company's pricing power.
It is the Firm's view that most analysts have been unwilling to boost their growth forecasts for Visa as the company gave markedly conservative guidance during the IPO process and did not alter its long-term growth objectives following impressive 2Q08 outperformance. Furthermore, while MasterCard has been public for two years, and has consistently posted organic revenue and earnings growth well ahead of its long-term goals, Visa has only beaten expectations for one quarter.
As a result, SunTrust believe analysts' MasterCard estimates are closer to reality than their Visa projections. This has created a situation in which V appears to have a valuation comparable with MA on EBITDA and higher on EPS. The Firm believes the opposite is actually true, however.
Notablecalls: I think this is a pretty major call from SunTrust. I don't know how many of you remember but SunTrust was out on MasterCard on June 15, 2007 with a hefty EPS raise (one that pretty much triggered another round of EPS raises by other firms).
Same thing may be happening with Visa here. Note that SunTrust's EPS estimates for 2009-2010 are the new Street high.
Technically, the stock looks ready for a nice bounce.
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This article has 93 comments:
ma is having europe close to 50% and expected to grow to 60% of market share. v is out of europe and just gets royalties.
v's earnings is 1.45 billion this qtr and 1.2 billion was ma's.
if v is leader in america, then ma in europe. so this kind of balances out and so only we have almost equal earnings.
in international space, the fight is still on. there is no need to assume v will take international (especially china, india, brazil, south africa) since ma is proving tough and in fact specializing in international territory.
if v is being valued at 100 now by suntrust, it is almost a whopping 50 times valuation currently and 36 times for 2009 and greater than 30 times for 2010. very very pricey valuation.
at the same range, then ma also should be valued at these levels. but it is not. it is trading at many multiples lower than above number.
if you think v is at a good price now at 76 then ma is dead cheap.
i think in valuation terms it is better chasing the cheaper ma rather than v.
i think v has support at 75 and i have averaged in. but my next average down will be 72 or 70 because even then i guess ma is cheaper than v.
What I really want to see though, is how their mobile payments platform pans out a couple quarters from now. If they start getting major carriers on board pushing the buzz, V will go stratospheric.
How you doing? Whatcha think about the other site? I'm bummin...
Fencer1
On May 27 01:04 PM Cat~eyes wrote:
> Jake, you're right though. International transactions (or cross-border
> transactions) currently account for 40% of all Visa transactions.
> The other 60% originate in the U.S. CEO Joe Saunders predicted that
> the number would be about 50/50 in the next 12-24 months, so you
> can imagine how quickly and how big the international growth is going
> to be!
Let me clarify it for you: 1. You're an idiot. PE ratios are not the only factor to consider when buying stocks. 2. Everything you said about MA vs V is inaccurate. 3. You are obviously shorting Visa and you lost money today!
Visa today- up 3.13% with a bump UP in after hours. Mastercard- up 2.03% with a TWO DOLLAR DROP after hours. Currently, Visa earned 3 TIMES what Mastercard did today. Mastercard gave back half of what it made today in after hours. I suspect people are switching from MA to Visa but you figure it out.
//////////////////////...
Watch for those "other firms" to raise expectations on V in the next two weeks.
64 days until V announces second quarter results (July 30)!
From the conference call from Saunders (CEO of Visa) he claimed that V europe shares will be bought out by V inc in october. After which V inc will convert Class C shares to Class B shares at a 1 to .77 ratio (i believe that is the correct ratio), which willl effectively decrease the total # of outstanding shares. These 2 events will effectively increase the value and EPS for each individual Visa shares.
Many analyst have given projected price for Visa from $75-100. I think this huge range is due to incomplete facts of the guidance of this company. I believe the projected price of $100 is conservative b/c of the 2 events mentioned above. If the 2 events (buying V europe and conversion of class c to b shares at 1 to.77 ratio) were NOT to happen then i believe this is highly overvalued stock compared to MA.
Anyways, I like what's going to happen this winter with the share buy back and Visa Europe as this will raise the value of Visa. Secondly, many people don't realize that Visa is the only card that is being used in developing foreign countries and those one's that do take both Visa and Mastercard, Visa has 2 to 1 and sometimes 3 to 1 advantage. Thirdly, Visa's CEO is truly being conservative. Fourthly, MA will get the crap sued out of them because with AXP stock tanking they are going after MA for lots of money that they haven't set aside and since Visa has already settled with AXP and set aside extra money Visa is in good shape. Lastly, instutions are increasing their holdings in Visa and Visa also mentioned about buying back more class A shares next year.
I love my Visa..
Not to mention Visa solid profit margin of about 21% in the most recent quarter, above the industry average. In addition, the upcomming olympics along with growth potential in Asia (china and india) with major internatinal banks investing millions in Visa, the growth potential is huge and will surpass MA in the long run. Remember Visa, still has un-tapped business opportunities in the international market space, this will be a tough one for it's rival Mastercard, not to mention it's reached it's TOP $$.
On May 27 01:04 PM Cat~eyes wrote:
> Jake, you're right though. International transactions (or cross-border
> transactions) currently account for 40% of all Visa transactions.
> The other 60% originate in the U.S. CEO Joe Saunders predicted that
> the number would be about 50/50 in the next 12-24 months, so you
> can imagine how quickly and how big the international growth is going
> to be!
ha ha...are you the alias of the guy who has been pumping v relentlessly and now threatening people....
adesai, can you post the link or post the relevant portion. i dont think v can buy v europe. the basic condition in which eu approved v going public because was to spin off v.
well ma has several analysts coming lately and telling it is from 340 and above - www.newratings.com/en/...
and many analysts have rimm beyond 160 and even 180 and 200...
no way ma and rimm trading at these levels..
and by the way a.h has no meaning, with 1000 shares i can thrash ma down 10 points or pump v by 5 points.
you should not go by day to day trade and tell that today v is up. so it is better.
good point. that's why i am telling there are many points and ma is beating them to pulp. some of them are,
* ramping up margins
* chewing up earnings qtr after qtr (not 5 cents kind of beat but moster beats like 20 to 59 cents)
* a proven management and not wamu management
* moving towards new plastic market like europe big time (ma has nearly 50% europe market)
* catching new markets like dubai, middle east, singapore, india.
* ramping up on china
* increasing guidance and not giving conservative guidance (watch for ma 29th call)
* p/e ratio that looks attractive all the time and not in bubble territory like 40 or 45.
* new technologies like pay wave, mobile payments - www.newswire.ca/en/rel...
look guys, i own v too. but not chasing it. as an investor we need to e neutral and not pump stocks just because we own them.
all i am telling is that if market is not valuing ma at v levels, then v has no business to be pumped up or valued in bubble.
i repeat again, at this v level of close to 40 p/e, either ma is DEAD CHEAP or v is in BUBBLE.
hello adesai, with respectful disagreement, i think the price you are quoting is astronomical.
the basic thing is that one should not buy a stock saying the company will buy back the stock.
ma has been buying back stock for a long time. but that will not be a reason for me to buy. ma can announce a split on 29th or buy back even more. but that should not be my guiding decision.
since we are in america, where v is the undisputed leader, we think v rules the world. without v europe, v is as equal to ma.
eu due to stringent anti competitive rules, will not allow v europe just like that to be merged with v. of course, if they merge, then v will shoot up. but that should not be my guiding decision. we look at fundamentals and not hypothetical scenario's.
it is like telling goog will buy rimm because their android is full of bugs and hence rimm will go 300 bucks!!!
that's my 2 cents.
However... GREAT NEWS! There is a new site, same format, same great philosophy.. and it's at visaglobalwinners.blog.../
So come on over and please spread the word to those Visa share-owners that want a drama-free zone to learn, share information, and state their opinions in a great place!! So come on over!
Let's get this wonderful site up and running to its full glory as it was before!! I look forward to seeing you all over there!!
Good to hear from you. How you doing?
I've been trying to get into the new site. Any suggestions?
Thx.
fencer1
On May 27 09:27 PM Cat~eyes wrote:
> Adesai and Fencer1: There's a lot of reasons but the upshot is that
> the guy who only set up the site from a computer standpoint shut
> it down over a simple dispute without notifying anyone first. He
> then posted the resulting emails after V Winner found out that his
> site had been destroyed and that hundreds of hours of work had been
> destroyed. He was obviously upset.
>
> However... GREAT NEWS! There is a new site, same format, same great
> philosophy.. and it's at visaglobalwinners.blog.../
>
>
> So come on over and please spread the word to those Visa share-owners
> that want a drama-free zone to learn, share information, and state
> their opinions in a great place!! So come on over!
>
> Let's get this wonderful site up and running to its full glory as
> it was before!! I look forward to seeing you all over there!!
peace, amen, calm....
one very important thing in this screwed up market is preservation of cash. why preserve cash? because this market gives lot of opportunity to buy good stocks at premium.
i could not believe ma was at 190 forgetting 2 earnings couple of months back. so i bought more. i am still buying ma more because it is very clear (at least to me) that market is giving v a very rich valuation. so very soon it has to either take ma to that valuation or bring v down. it is as simple as that.
so isn't v worth 80? it is worth 80 or even 100. BUT let the management show the beat ma is showing. let management improve earnings from mid 20's to mid 40's like ma. let them run away with china. let them beat maestro to the pulp in emerging markets and many other things like that.
v is fully valued. so dont get excited if you have already invested. enjoy your investment grow. but don't plug in more because if v comes down and tests 75 (and worst case 72 and 70) you should have cash.
one last parting shot: irrrespective of whether it is v or ma, their customer service sucks. axp and discover are way way up in the sky in terms of customer service. if v or ma wants to hit the other to the pulp, customer service is super important. hope somebody from v or ma is reading this para!!!!
To those that were on vwinnersblogspot should read the emails and read how people were treated here as well.
Make your own minds up.
In His Mercy
It states in the prospectus about how much V Inc will have to pay for V EU. In the short run it will set V back abit but, in the long run it will be great.
And for what reason?
On a side note: I'm sorry you were removed from the other site for no reason. I hope you know that V was not the one who made that call.
Looking: I agree that anyone running a site that insists on reading all posts before they go up is in the business of censorship, not information sharing. But that's his choice to make. But you're right.. he took something that wasn't his and turned it into a personal crusade. It is simply sad and I hope everyone can move on from this and get back to the business at hand. I just want everyone to forget about that old site and it's obvioius agenda. SA isn't the place to talk about it, anyway, but you're welcome to blog about it under the Whatever post on the new site. But it will not be in the business of personal bashing, only the sharing of truthful information.
Wise people walk one step and see next two steps, that's EPS estimates and price target are raised.
And your right...numbers dont lie. V has a high current and forward PE ratio compared to MA. However, I have invested in Visa b/c of the growth potential, worldwide name recognition, the guidance of future growth of this company, guidance of buying Veurope in several months, along with the growth potential in china. Additionally this is a comapny i can relate to b/c i use visa credit cards more than i use cash. Just to keep records of all my purshases without holding on to reciepts. More banks and institution from asia (china, india), middle east, etc..etc.. have invested in this company compared to MA... which tells me that this will be the premier card which will be advertised when people go to banks to get debit/credit card in these developing countries. Although in the short term MA may look good b/c of its PE ratio and EPS....in the long run (3+ years) visa is the much better company. And I am in it for the long run...
In fact even in the short run i have made about 30-40% return on this investment in today's bleak economy...which is something i dont think anybody will complain about.
2007 Jan to Jun, China Banks issued 108 types of cards in total,
Visa Card - 54, 50%
MasterCard - 28, 26%
JCB Card - 2, 2%
China Union Card - 24, 22%
www.sqrb.com.cn/gb/mis...
well said adesai. i too have made money. but here's where we have to watch out. i dont think v is going to fall 70 or 72. it has huge support at 75 just like ma has at 270 (even v at 75, ma at 270 - ma hugely unpderpriced)
but assuming it pulls back again to 75 and worst case to 72, we need cash to buy in. if you are already fully invested in v, dont push further cash.
i am staying in cash except for rimm, few solar plays, ma and v.
let v show what it is capable in next earnings. meanwhile dont forget ma's conf call tomorrow.
probably the first ever credit card focussed on environment conscious consumers.
that's ma management led by the veteran credit card guy robert salendar. and that's why even a 15 cents beat is almost considered a miss!!!!
Having read many reports when visawinners.blog was active it was clear that V not only dominated MA in the U.S. but also in China, India, S. America, S.E. Asian countries, Middle East, etc.. This wasn't just people telling what they heard but actual people who lived in those countries and having travelled in those countries.
I rejoice in the fact that V has already settled their claim with American Express and have set aside extra money to more suits. Whereas MA hasn't settled with American Express and haven't set aside any money (read their prospectus and it says it all).
Also, for the Visa 10Q filing their one time charge is now gone and without that they would have beaten estimates by even a bigger margin.
Rejoice for V has cometh!
library.corporate-ir.n...
I'll be posting the audio interview with the CEO and CFO from this Conference (as soon as I find it!) over on the VisaGlobalWinners.blog... when I get home tonight, along with some commentary on some of these charts. I hope you all enjoy!
Kzoink: This is my last comment to you. I've held my tongue, but there's one last thing I'm reminded of to end my comments to you with. Much like children in a sandbox, a bully will keep bullying someone until that person stops paying attention and ignores the bully. This causes the bully to go into a frenzy and actually increase his harrassment and scare-tactics to try to force a response out of his 'victims'. If the 'victim' is consistent in their refusal to engage or respond to the annoying and increasingly abusive tactics, then the bully will eventually get bored, frustrated, and move on to other things. The 'victim' has regained power and not allowed the bully to control their emotional response. It's an age-old like lesson and one that I feel is warranted repeating here.
This is Seeking Alpha... Not Seeking Revenge by Any Means Necessary or Seeking Listeners to My Temper Tantrums. Leave this site alone. For those that actually wish to listen to your rants, they are welcome to join you on "your" (I use that term VERY loosely) website and join in on the useless and un-informing banter. For the rest of us, please take your hatred and nonesense elsewhere.
I'm done fighting people- it DOESN'T MAKE MONEY.
Cat- thanks for posting the JP Morgen Conference- I read your transcripts- and the thing I liked most was when Joe Saunders said that Visa would have "no problem meeting guidance this quarter". Now, that in and of itself, is a comment rarely heard lately by any company. What that tells me is that V did what any astute CEO of a newly-public company would do- he low-balled estimates for the first couple of Qs..... He's looking to get that MA bump. I'm thinking we are going to have a good year.
Hell- I got options and leaps from June to Jan 10- and this was the first day that my entire screen went GREEN$ in a while. What was even more special about today is that my PBR and V (two of my favorite holdings) both did well on the same- another rarity lately.
Today feels like a lucky day!
V- Close +3.18 (4.04%)- keep it coming........
Euro-Mark- I second your thanks- as I got myself a basket of options at a discount :)
I'm convinced that Visa will be beating it's estimates regularly. I've come to this conclusion after studying the company closely and reading the prospectus. So please, dont try to tell me I'm making a mistake and that Visa is too pricey. I've already decided where the stock is going and your "opinion" is not going to change my mind. You dont have a crystal ball and you have every right NOT to buy the stock if you so choose. Just do me a favor- stop the lame, negative posts with no basis in fact, or suffer the consequences.
mrbill loves v
they dont use them visa dont make money no ones talk about this topic.
In fact, this is your lucky day! This will be my last post on Seeking Alpha.
I have spent a lot of time and effort on Visa and am happy to own it as an investor. My intentions from the beginning - although it may not have looked that way- were to tell people what I knew about Visa as Visa was being slammed right from the beginning on Seeking Alpha. It gave me a lot of satisfaction to hear from people that made the decision because of something I said.
But I also realized that I became too emotional and spent far too much time on this particular stock. I have reached my time limit and locked in my position. Visa will have an incredible run -but once that first jolt of juice is over- I move on. In other words, I love Visa- but I'm in the business for Return on Investment - and I want it now- I don't have the time to wait.
I see Visa doing well this year. Prior to oil having its run- I had greater short term hopes. Then came the realization that we are not in the beginning of a bull market but more like a bear market rally. Over the past week I loaded up on all of the options and leaps that I need, picked up a few more shares- and thats it. I'm done.
In a way I'm glad we had the correction we did as I feel this is the last time we will see $75- but the ride (as a result of my over-optimism) - I had expected greater short term results. Having said that I'm moving on to other stocks that are running RIGHT NOW.
I'll jump back into Visa in a big way at the end of the year. I do still feel that V has another 25$ in it this year (if not a few bucks more), but that is simply not enough to maintain my enthusiasm.
I do, however, see V doing extremely well next year.
To those that want to continue on the negative path-come to your senses like I did. Negativity only draws an equal or greater response. The little battles I have had recently did wake me up to the fact that I need to be far more objective- which is exactly what I am doing today.
It has been a wild experience and I posted over 350 times on Seeking Alpha- but the ride is over folks - and i'm packing up the tent - and moving on.
There are a couple people I know that have set up blogs for Visa and I'm sure they will do very well. I wish them both the best of luck. My Visa blogging days are over- and I sincerely wish all of you the best.
Jon
i just want to highlight last middle of year 2007 earnings of ma. ma just did not beat, but they chewed, bitted, spitted, crushed, smashed the earnings. you can check those below.
earnings during july qtr of last year when subprime crisis started happening and stock market went into tizzy:
www.bloggingstocks.com.../
last oct 2007 earnings:
www.inmoneytoday.com/2.../
i repeat again. ma if it beats like 15 or 20 cents, it is considered like 'so what'.
look again for repeat beat this qtr as summer season europe is in full swing on vacation and also cross border traffic out of europe is huge.
look for valuations, fundamentals, etc when you value v. you have ma to compare. if ma is not there then v is a stand alone star. now you have ma to compare.
keep your cash safe and wait for pull backs. have a core position and when pulled back, get in and get out when v reaches bubble status. usually when v enters 80's it is entering bubble.
i repeat again. either ma is DEAD CHEAP or v in BUBBLE.
and finally, i would love to see, v crushing earnings like ma. we will wait till next qtr i guess.
Here's a quote from you in an earlier post:
"i am staying in cash except for rimm, few solar plays, ma and v."
In the post immediately above me you mention RIMM, AAPL and FSLR which must be your "solar play".
RIMM's PE is 61, AAPL's is 38, and your solar play FSLR is over 100. Each one of the stocks you mention has a PE ratio higher than Visa's. Yet you post here hourly that MA is far superior to Visa even though it's PE ratio may be only 5 points lower. You repeatedly characterize Visa as "in bubble status when it hits the 80's". Since you seem to only apply your investment strategy of a low PE ratio to Visa and not your other investments, I'd like to ask you a question. What are you smoking? Your posts make no sense, are contradictory and lead me to believe you are only here in a lame amateur attempt to manipulate the stock, which is laughable. Only a handful of people read these blogs. Do you blog on the FSLR board that everyone should sell immediately due to the 101 PE ratio?
Or on the RIMM board that RIMM is in "bubble status"? [Comment edited for abusive language. Commenter put on notice]
I like your post's as they are informative. I'll say that MA is a good company too, I own a few shares, but that doesn't mean V is a bubble because value is in the eye of the beholder and I see that V has more bang for the buck. For every RIMM, AAPL, GRMN, MA with small P/E's there are also BIDU, ISRG, UPS, FSLR with huge P/E's, also there are others with ridiculus small P/E's: GS, C, BAC..
So, all companies come from all walks of life and each to his own which can also be said about people in general.
Adesai posted,
"And your right...numbers dont lie. V has a high current and forward PE ratio compared to MA. However, I have invested in Visa b/c of the growth potential, worldwide name recognition, the guidance of future growth of this company, guidance of buying Veurope in several months, along with the growth potential in china. Additionally this is a comapny i can relate to b/c i use visa credit cards more than i use cash. Just to keep records of all my purshases without holding on to reciepts. More banks and institution from asia (china, india), middle east, etc..etc.. have invested in this company compared to MA... which tells me that this will be the premier card which will be advertised when people go to banks to get debit/credit card in these developing countries. Although in the short term MA may look good b/c of its PE ratio and EPS....in the long run (3+ years) visa is the much better company. And I am in it for the long run... "
VDiddy posted,
"Green,
I like your post's as they are informative. I'll say that MA is a good company too, I own a few shares, but that doesn't mean V is a bubble because value is in the eye of the beholder and I see that V has more bang for the buck. For every RIMM, AAPL, GRMN, MA with small P/E's there are also BIDU, ISRG, UPS, FSLR with huge P/E's, also there are others with ridiculus small P/E's: GS, C, BAC..
So, all companies come from all walks of life and each to his own which can also be said about people in general."
dude, this shows how ameteur you are. fslr a monster with 700% or so income growth, rimm each and every qtr around 100 to 120% monster growth. these companies chew, eat and crush earnings leaving analysts gasping.
ma is doing that. let v do that. if they beat by 5 cents and next qtr by say 8 cents, then do you keep giving such huge valuations.
i will buy fslr more even now. it has got close to 2gigawatts in trial in so.cal and canadian utilities. its growth is monstrous and will be so for next several years since they are coming close to per wattage costs in line with the cheap dirty coal.
rimm with its super berry and upcoming thunder and bold will rock. they can post even 150% growth.
will v do that. if so why just 5 cents beat. why conservative guidance? there is no europe market either.
so comparing v to fslr and rimm is foolishness to say the least.
is V giving 100% growth each and every qtr to have such huge valuations??
and your language is offensive. if you want decent comments post here. or else go start your own blog :-)
One of a great many reasons is that Mastercard barely had a presence overseas when Visa was well-established. I remember traveling around Europe in the mid-eighties and nobody knew what a Mastercard was unless you called it an Access card in England, other names elsewhere, and acceptance was very poor, while Visa was known and readily accepted. And so it goes...
Can't we all get alone?
i can kiss away the pain...
ma is cheap even now....
it rocked and blasted 300 and now at 312. STILL CHEAP. STILL CHEAP. STILL CHEAP.
a true american business with super STRONG global story with 50% sales coming international and the hyper growth europe leader.
if market has to give V valuations to MA, then ma should be 360 to 380. either v has to come down (does not look likely as market loves v). so ma has to catch up.
catch up on their hyper growth story at library.corporate-ir.n...
i would have loved a split so many folks can get into the stock. looks that wont happen
I am curious though as to why you continue to post about MA on a Visa article? I know you own V and MA but why do you keep trying to say that MA is much better than V?
MA should be trading more than V, it has been out for what 18-20 months?
I'm glad for you that MA is growing in per share value. But so is V :)
this was unexpected news and looks like rumour. if rumour then fslr is at a discount so is spwr with f p/e of 25 for a 90% growth company. we will see how this news develops. i would suggest to stay off solar to see how this news comes. if it is just a rumour, then we can jump in on several stocks which have been sold off.
>>>>I know you own V and MA but why do you keep trying to say that MA is much better than V?
i own v but hold more ma. since i have been buying ma since 150. ma is not much better than v. ma is cheaper than v. for a company that is almost as equal as v, there is huge valuation difference.
see at library.corporate-ir.n...
slide 62 is what you have to catch. this means that ma is going to beat each and every qtr 40 cents or so. analysts are looking for 15% growth but ma is project almost double that.
stock is very undervalued compared to v. so only i keep telling ma is cheaper and a better buy.
but one thing that keeps v going up is that investors (especially small one's who buy in 100 or 200) thinks v is cheap as v is just 85 bucks whereas ma is 300 bucks!!!!
blogs.barrons.com/stoc...
Mastercard, which processes about one out of every three transactions, boosted its long-term net growth rate to a range of 20% to 30%, versus its prior forecast of 15% to 20%. Revenues could grow by nearly double the rate the company previously estimated.
Visa:::
"Net income climbed to $314 million, or 39 cents a share, in the quarter ended March 31, from $246 million a year earlier, the San Francisco-based company said today in a statement. Adjusted net income was 52 cents a share, beating the 45-cent average estimate of 16 analysts surveyed by Bloomberg."
Now here is the earnings as reported by Mastercard...
"MasterCard reported that its first quarter profit more than doubled to $446.9 million, or $3.38 a share, helped by gains from the sale of its investment in Redecard S.A. in Brazil. The weak dollar and more customers who used their credit and debit cards for purchases also boosted the company's earnings."
It appears that MA beat V on the earnings front and I am assuming that "profit" and "net" are the same(at least they are on my tax returns). Now this may have been from the sale of their Brazil investment, but I want the forums feedback on this issue.
On May 29 12:19 AM FormerBankca rder wrote:
> You know, you can talk about technicals, P/E ratios, guidance and
> such, and how value is in the eye of the beholder, but the bottom
> line is still the bottom line. And it comes down to the fact that
> Visa has eaten Mastercard's lunch for 20 years and will continue
> to do so.
>
> One of a great many reasons is that Mastercard barely had a presence
> overseas when Visa was well-established. I remember traveling around
> Europe in the mid-eighties and nobody knew what a Mastercard was
> unless you called it an Access card in England, other names elsewhere,
> and acceptance was very poor, while Visa was known and readily accepted.
> And so it goes...
If you are trying to convince me or others to buy MA well can't speak for others but I don't want to own MA. I have V and that is enough for this very small sector ( as in providers ).
I'm making money off of V. As per cost per share, I can buy a whole lot more V @ $85 per share than I can MA @ $300 per share.
It does not matter if I have $10k or $1 mil to spend, I can still buy more V than MA. To be honest I don't care if V ever catches MA in price per share as long as V continues to grow. I'm still making great ROI. Already have great ROI with ACPS @ $63!
I'm not one to put too many eggs in any one basket no matter what the ROI is.
So go ahead and continue to push MA and tell us all how much better MA is than V and I will continue to chuckle @ your posts while enjoying my ROI in Visa.
Have a great day :)
i am not posting in v articles. in most of articles ma is there.
also i am erring on the caution side in v. so only i am telling don't chase it since ma being undervalued, market might correct v valuation.
it is better to have saner voices i guess amidst relentless pumping...
remember i too have v but have not chased it even once beyond 80 and i have been right so far. i am waiting to sell my trading position once v goes irrationally to 88/89 again. i already jumped out of the positions i got in at 75 just now.
www.secinfo.com/d4rd.u...
I guess time will tell if I'm wrong with this litigation that will occur in October for Mastercard. Hope I'm wrong for the sake of those who love Mastercard. As for me not as much to worry about for Visa.
$77 before earnings announcement, $70 after earnings announcement, then it goes to $89.xx in 10 days - then it goes to $74.xx in another 10 days now it's back. Anyone that sit there and speak with any authority of the value of this company outside of it's earnings is obviously delusional. The hedge fund traders are beating this stock up and down like a rented mule and bone smoking the analysts in the off market hours. Not a nice picture - but let's be real folks - it is what it is. Just make sure you're pulling the trigger in sync and you'll make a bundle.
First week of May I called for a short above $85 and cover below $75 (just about didn't make it - that was close). Anything at or above $87 at this point would be time for some serious profit taking.
If we are trading at or above $87 come second round of earnings and there is pathetic performance(like last round) Get ready for the skid because it will be painful. Combine that with the announcement that Discover is marching into court with Visa could be the perfect storm for some more great buying. Make sure you have your stops submitted for after hours/extended trading the minute that regular trading session ends. There will be many more swings like this one in the near future.
"Under terms of the agreement reached with Visa, Inc., Visa USA, and Visa
International, American Express will receive an aggregate maximum payment of
$2.25 billion. An initial payment of $1.13 billion will likely be recognized
by American Express in income during the fourth quarter 2007. The remainder,
payable in installments of up to $70 million per quarter over the next four
years, is subject to achieving certain quarterly performance criteria within
the U.S. network services business of American Express."
On May 29 03:46 PM VDiddy wrote:
> I can tell you that Visa has already got their house in order by
> the fact that Visa has already paid American Express. Hope that
> MA investors don't get too delusional of the flying stock because
> your time will come. Which explains why Visa still made bank but
> had to use some of their money. Also, if you read the 10Q from V
> it states that they are a full quarter behind on reporting income
> and revenue because of the sheer volume they deal with.
>
> www.secinfo.com/d4rd.u...
>
> I guess time will tell if I'm wrong with this litigation that will
> occur in October for Mastercard. Hope I'm wrong for the sake of
> those who love Mastercard. As for me not as much to worry about
> for Visa.
>
If you ever read this note, I just want you to know what we are all in here for the bucks. As me, you picked up loads of calls and sold many many puts. Within a few more days or even tomorrow I will cash in money and move on too. Good luck VWinner and good luck to everyone in here making money :)
beyond 80, it is already priced in for next earnings unless v gives a ma like master beat of 40 cents or more.
MasterCard remains the sole defendant in the American Express case. The
lawsuit, which was filed in Federal court (November 2004) by American Express,
seeks monetary damages for the lost business opportunity that resulted from
the illegal conspiracy to boycott American Express. American Express is
expected to seek damages in the billions of dollars. As the sole remaining
defendant, MasterCard would be liable for the full amount.
"The size of this settlement, along with earlier court rulings,
underscores the seriousness of the damage done by the illegal boycott," said
Kenneth I. Chenault, chairman and chief executive. "We plan to move forward
with the litigation to hold MasterCard accountable for the illegal actions
that blocked banks from working with us for many years and to seek full
compensation for the value that would have been generated for our
shareholders."
Also, whatever Discover brings on for Visa they will bring it on for Master Card as well. You should google it because it's there. So, the 3 billion set aside by Visa should go nicely to soften the blow but I can't say that for Master Card.
Hope that helps answer your question.
People aren't only using their cards instead of using cash now, but they're also making more transactions with those cards.
For example, I used to just pay my cable bill once a month with my V card. But now to save money, we have cancelled our premium cable packages, while still keeping basic cable, and are now making more purchases each month on Netflix, Blockbuster Online and the local RedBox. We're saving money, but making more credit card transactions. This is happening more and more as people are trying to save money. Make sense?
Add to that all the perks you get with having a credit card, especially if you pay it off every month. People are using their cards more and more, not less and less.
Sorry to you too Greencap. Thats what I get for being so narrow minded.
If I seem to be rude or mean then I have to apologize because I'm not that type of person. I want all of us here to make money because I know I'm tired of being manipulated by the big boys in so many other stocks. It's good to finally find a couple of good stocks that will weather the storm and endure.
Just like you I want people to consider the potential pitfalls before they invest their money. I have lost alot of money because of not doing enough DD and I don't people to do that. I have also learned from you too so that is why I appreciate your insights too.
That's why I just bought some IPI which you mentioned before and I can see the trend reversal as they report money and I believe they will be profitable. Thanks again.
Think of it as a monopoly. Also, the world is moving closer and closer to a cashless society. Think about it. V is KING. Good investing!
and a different time.
But from 1996 to March 2000 I saw IPO's go to 10 times their public offering in less than 3 months. Good ole dot com days that was the wildest bubble and absolutely win win win until 3, 2000.
Companies came out that had never made money, lol some that never intended to make money, some had been a company for less than a year (on paper only) and a few that are barely alive today.
Yahoo, ibid, ubid, ebay, amazon, nextlink, nortel, doubleclick and etc.
Spring of 97 I was new to internet and never bought a stock before. Opened an account with DLJ with $18k and by 12, 99 was sittin on $243k. LMBO by June, 2k I was sitting on 50k and the rest is history.
That was the wildest I ever seen in the market.
I compare that time in the market to the 60's in the U.S.
Everything changed forever.
I remember banks were paying us over 20% APR interest in the 80's too!
Obviously MA is the leader at this time. MA beat V to the stock market by a couple of years because they had their business in order.
What happened to V-winner? He's on Visa like a silly little high school cheer leader. Go Visa Go!! Give me a V, Give me an I, etc etc.
Just want to remind him that he said V would never see $75 again.
V dipped to 74.36 on May 28.
Wasn't he predicting 90 or 100 by end of May?
On May 29 12:19 AM FormerBankca rder wrote:
> You know, you can talk about technicals, P/E ratios, guidance and
> such, and how value is in the eye of the beholder, but the bottom
> line is still the bottom line. And it comes down to the fact that
> Visa has eaten Mastercard's lunch for 20 years and will continue
> to do so.
>
> One of a great many reasons is that Mastercard barely had a presence
> overseas when Visa was well-established. I remember traveling around
> Europe in the mid-eighties and nobody knew what a Mastercard was
> unless you called it an Access card in England, other names elsewhere,
> and acceptance was very poor, while Visa was known and readily accepted.
> And so it goes...
"the 8th days GOD created Visa"
"I married with Visa"
A lot of people like your post, even Green Cap I think :).
Hope to see your comments again.
The Frankmeister buyin the overprice stock, gonna make the big buck. Go Frankoramaaaaa!