Seeking Alpha
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Prepare yourself now.

The market is widely referred to as a discounting mechanism. However, its ability to discount anything extends only as far as the collective knowledge of its participants. And to be blunt, the vast majority of today’s investors— professional or otherwise— know little if anything about making money in the market.

With the advent of discount brokerages— E*trade (ETFC), Ameritrade (AMTD), etc— in the late ‘90s, a huge wave of novice investors entered the US financial markets. Between 1990 and 2000, the number of US households invested in mutual funds doubled from 25 million to 50 million. This wave of new, uninformed money supported two major trends: the Tech Bubble, and the rise of the financial media.

Regarding the latter, in 1990, stock market developments were relegated to 15 minutes of coverage on major news programs. Only ten years later, there were at least three entire channels—CNBC, Bloomberg, CNNfn— devoted solely to financial markets. The commentators and hosts of these shows looked good on camera, spoke knowledgably enough about markets, but in reality, didn’t have a clue what they were talking about. Their job was to provide content in large quantities, not content of high quality.

The issue of ignorance extends beyond individual investors to professional traders. As Bill King put it in an earlier essay, “There is a whole generation of traders whose knowledge of investing and financial history dates back to 1990 at most. Put another way, there are thousands and thousands of guys in their 40s who trade for a living and have never seen a real bear market or recession.”

These investors, while more sophisticated than their novice counterparts, are almost equally ignorant of any market development outside of their trading models and investment frameworks.

I mention all of this to illuminate why the market has rallied in the last two months, why investors need to be extremely cautious right now, and why the potential for a major market plunge in the coming months has increased dramatically.

As much as the financial media likes to refer to the Bear Stearns bailout and the Federal Reserve’s other recent actions as unprecedented, the reality is that similar events have occurred in the past. And history offers some striking advice as to what to expect for the remainder of 2008.

There have been three March financial crisis and subsequent interventions in the 20th century alone—1907, 1929, and 1980. And while the ones intervening changed— JP Morgan in 1907, Herbert Hoover in 1929, and Jimmy Carter in 1980— the effects of the interventions were always the same: The intervention marked a temporary bottom followed by a brief two to three month rally, then a very ugly fall (literally and seasonally).

Even if we overlook the intervention, the market has followed a similar pattern— brief summer rally followed by an awful fall— in years in which the first quarter was soft or recessionary. It did this in 1990, 2000, 2001, and 2002. Thus far, the market has followed this pattern to a “T”— the first quarter for 2008 was definitely a recessionary one and stocks have since posted a 2-3 month rally.

Thus, I believe the market is ripe for a major (20% or more) downturn in the coming months. Novice investors would do well to shift a sizable portion of their portfolios to cash.

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This article has 101 comments:

  •  
    "Novice investors would do well to shift a sizable portion of their portfolios to cash."
    Why cash? Historically, when stocks crashed, gold rallied. See Year 2002 chart: finance.yahoo.com/q/bc...
    2008 Jun 06 06:09 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Finally, an hard, honest look at how this financial quagmire is going to play out over the next few months. Its nice to get a breath of fresh air once in a while. Graham, I'm with you. Cash remains king!
    2008 Jun 06 07:24 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    If you think the market is falling 40%, you should be directing novice investors to leveraged inverse ETFs, not cash.
    2008 Jun 06 07:27 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Isn't it funny how some decent market downturns drive all the bears out of hibernation with their 'I told you so' articles scaring everyone about the coming doom?
    2008 Jun 06 08:21 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Since beginning to learn how to invest/trade or both two years I have concluded that making money from investing is very difficult. One thing I have learned in the last year is that the market can go way up without any real economic ( or at times rational) reasons.Or maybe the why is information I dont have..or whatever...
    I have learned a great deal, and am facinated and hooked, but I remain 90% in cash since fall of '07. I can figure out what should do well and why, on many occasions, but this market is too scarey for me to risk losing my money!
    2008 Jun 06 08:31 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    To blah-blah: better to be a bear arisen from hibernation than a bull who is killed for his meat (or a bull run over by the freight train called Recession or Depression).

    And if there is anytime during our lifetimes that "a coming doom" may actually come to pass, it's now.
    2008 Jun 06 08:35 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    We have only seen the tip of the iceberg recession and the market has not discounted it. Head for the exits. cash is king now!
    2008 Jun 06 09:17 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    "As much as the financial media likes to refer to the Bear Stearns bailout and the Federal Reserve’s other recent actions as unprecedented, the reality is that similar events have occurred in the past."

    never in the history of the federal reserve have they exposed themselves to significant balance sheet risk by directly backing funding of one private party to acquire another. this was unprecedented and it was a panic move, which tells you the mindset of the federal reserve about the stability of our financial system.

    those legions of investors who have come to think that the all-powerful federal reserve can solve the collapse of housing, the evaporation of credit, a declining dollar, rising inflation and an increasingly-pinched consumer stretched to the limit because of a quadrupling of oil prices over the last 4 years i have news for you:

    it ain't going to happen.

    anyone who is strictly long stocks in this environment needs to reevaluate their strategy. we've just begun to feel the effects of years of cheap and easy credit. and the fed is out of ammunition.
    2008 Jun 06 09:30 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    20% plunge is too optimistic. I would not be surprised to see DOW at 5000 and S&P at 600.
    2008 Jun 06 09:46 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    I agree with most comments here.

    Fact: The US stock market is now the most manipulated & corrupt market in the free world. Our own gov't and FED admit that they "influence" the direction of the market, thus making it very hard to game the market for those of us like me who use about 15% of our portfolios to "boost" returns by making directional bets on the market"
    And I have been at this for 15 years already. I cant even imagine a novice trying to make money here.

    However....

    The 85% of my portfolio that is "long term" is, and continues to be, invested in individual stocks, that trade directly on exchanges, in countries that, compared to the US, are fiscally more responsible, do not manipulate their so called free markets, and do not face an insane amount of entitlement program problems over the next 25 years.

    Thats probably why I am up 8.5% this year so far, and up over 120% in my portfolio since Jan 1, 2000.

    To invest and "beat" Wall Street you have to ignore the noise and lies, and "buy them when nobody wants them" (and no, we are not even close to that point).
    And when stocks are high and you have made boatloads you say to everyone else "Here, take mine"

    That is how you beat Wall Street. Not by watching Mad Money, Fast Money, etc.

    Good luck to you all. I really hope, that at some point, the criminals running our country into the ground, Kudlow and the rest of the bold faced liars on CNBC ,et al, get theirs for all their lies.

    Don't think for a second that all the multi-millionaire CNBC anchors give a damn about the market going down, nor for the average american who is getting killed and going to get killed even more, regardless of how they spin it on TV.
    2008 Jun 06 09:46 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Not to quibble, but the statement that in 1990 there were no financial channels such as today's CNBC, CNNfn, Fox Business News, and Bloomberg is simply a false statement. I was watching the Financial News Network, with Bill Griffith, Sue Herrera, Ron Insana, and technician John Bollinger back in the mid-80's. CNBC entered the scene in 1987 if memory serves. At that time, CNBC was struggling mightily, much worse than Fox News is struggling today. It takes time to find the right formula, but with enough time and money, it happens.
    2008 Jun 06 10:02 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    The Fed Chairman Monday speech only lasts for 3 days, lips service for strong dollar.

    Fast/Mad money are just noises.

    Read Fischer Black.
    2008 Jun 06 10:23 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    My solute to Rick of CNBC, he is a real guy.
    2008 Jun 06 10:25 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Pilar, the stock market is not right for everyone. There are no "sure winners," and the market always scares investors. What would it take for you to be "sure" and buy stocks? I am very cautious of this market, so I am taking a conservative approach. I will post some ideas on what I am doing--just as food for thought--not as a sure plan.
    2008 Jun 06 10:25 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Remember how the Fed starts to cut rate and thus caused the global inflation? it begins with the infamous "thy know nothing." noises.
    What a farce, ECB at least has a clear focus. Life is simple, who complicated it?
    2008 Jun 06 10:27 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    We can make money no matter it is bear market or bull, only pig get slaughtered..

    I did not say that...
    2008 Jun 06 10:29 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    The author of this article is foolish at best. He calls most investors novices that have no idea of how to make money in the market. That is just dead wrong.

    How well have the professionals done lately? Hmmm... doesnt look to me like the professionals know their arses from their elbows either! Honestly, I dont think I could lose billions if I tried to.

    Sad truth, most professionals are greedy idiots who participate in rising markets. Anyone can make money in a bull market, anyone. Many hedge fund managers are ex atheletes and others who came into a little money and decided to start investing for others too. Time has shown now, that the bull is gone, that they SUCK. I consistently outperform the S&P, 80% of all mutual funds dont. But I am a poor novice who doesnt know how to make money. Give us a break!!! Most investors simply dont have the TIME, its not their job.
    2008 Jun 06 10:34 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Oh yeah, this "novice" investor cashed out of the market at 13,800 completely because he knows who to listen to and saw the writing on the wall. How many professionals did that?? Most persons I know have had their 401Ks in cash since late last yr as well.

    He has one thing right, the fall is coming.
    2008 Jun 06 10:39 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Believe this. The bottom will be in when no one wants to own stocks anymore. No one. As long as investors and institutions cant wait to get back in, we will be no place close to the bottom, thats still a sign of bubble-mania. We will not plunge, this will be a slow slide with ups and downs over maybe a year till we bottom.

    2008 Jun 06 10:47 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    So the author argues that today's investors are generally amateurs and therefore the market is overpriced. Then he rolls into a few years over the last hundred where a "March fnancial crisis" occurs, followed by an "intervention". I'm sorry but, anyone can find 'historical patterns' to support any market movement that want by cherry picking the years that work for their model. I do not subscribe to technical analysis. The author will have to show a fundamental reason for his prediction of a 20% or more correction if he wants to convince me. The author predicts the market will be 20% or below "in the coming months". Therefore, it is reasonable to assume he believes the S&P 500 will be at 1,100 or below "in the coming months". If it the market ever goes below 1,100, then I guess his prediction will have come true, but it doesn't sound like something of use to many investors.


    2008 Jun 06 11:27 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    We've been in a bear market for a long time. For instance, the NASDAQ is about 1/2 of what it was at its peak in 2000. Many stocks like Microsoft, Johnson & Johnson, and General Electric are selling for about what they were in 1998.

    What we're looking at right now is a consumer under pressure, unable to spend at the rate he was before. Yesterday's performance was a perfect storm of rising oil prices and unemployment. Rising oil prices affect the ability of some businesses to survive, much less operate at a profit.

    Still, gas is cheap in the US, about half of what it is in Europe. Homes are cheap compared to Europe, and getting cheaper. Unemployment is 5.5%, but that's a rate that most European countries would love to have.

    I think that the financial news channels tend to drive the markets faster in either direction, but I'm not sure they have any long-lasting effect. America has incredibly strong brands that will be dominant for generations, and these brands are doing well in developing markets. I'm a skittish bull these days, doing OK on my energy-related stocks, getting slaughtered on BAC, and breaking about even on my REITs.

    There is a lot of liquidity around waiting for a signal to join the party. We'll see what happens to that money when the market makes a move up.
    2008 Jun 06 11:43 PM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Its much worse than that. The consumer is not under pressure, they are finished, tapped out. As long as the housing bubble was creating the illusion of increasing wealth, consumers were happy to spend into debt, not saving anything, depending on rising home prices to be their "savings".

    Thats over for the foreseeable future. We are going to see an epic bust in home prices, and consumer spending. Combined with severe contraction in credit, we will have deflation in all assets and a sever e and protracted economic downturn.

    Consumers have finally noticed that it takes two parents working to maintain a standard of living that one did 30 yrs ago, and that everyones quality of life and family is actually worse. Government lies about inflation, employment, and prices used to propagate the bubble, in addition to blatant market manipulations, have destroyed all confidence in the governmental oversight of financial markets.

    If it gets bad enough, we could see a revolt against the US government and pigmen.
    2008 Jun 07 12:02 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    @Eagle-Chief - for those who live off capital appreciation and the short term, I would fear for them too.

    @The rest of the commentors - I'm not selling, a long bear market would be a wonderful thing. Scare as many as you can, I need to keep buy for the next two years and a new bull would only slow me down.
    2008 Jun 07 12:12 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Look at this way...

    Is what's happening around you ($150 oil, rising unemployment, declining home prices, banks struggling, etc.,) sign of current and continuing prosperity?

    I can't predict the future with certainty, but the present sure looks pretty bad. Better to sit out and miss a small gain than to blindly stay put and suffer a huge loss.

    Get out, sit back, relax and let the skies turn blue again...
    2008 Jun 07 12:29 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Who really cares anymore? Maybe a good slap on the rear will do us good.
    2008 Jun 07 01:08 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    OIL IS $140!!! In 1998, is was $10. 14x return. And only getting worse. Maybe we could invent something harvest the Carbon out of the atmosphere, the American lifestyle deserves a second chance!!!
    Check out SDS... is an Ultrashort (2X inverse) fund on the S&P... up about 7% today alone and doing good for the year.And DBC is a good all around commodity bet. It went up 6% today. Being in the stock market is like gambling to a degree, but my gut is definitely more involved this time. And the market is going to go on a diet. We are going to get a reality check. We are basically going to resemble Europe as our unemployment and gas goes up....
    2008 Jun 07 01:13 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Mkts that breech their winter lo's in Jan fall on avg 39%.
    We had a 1st week in 2008 that was DOWN;a DOWN JAN;& NEGATIVE MoMo!

    also the DOW UTIL's are tracing out the same topping pattern that it did in #2001. Then as it appears now JUNE will drop off of a cliff! The trigger? who knows, but the news will accomodate the trend!
    2008 Jun 07 01:15 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    And this is a good thing. We need to slow down. There is enough for everyone that is serious about survival. In the history of the world, no one has ever said that they regretted slowing down to enjoy the simple things in life. Never.
    The fact that America suffers from an epidemic of obesity is a spiritual symbol of our culture. It couldn't get anymore literal.
    Study a movement called Calorie Restriction. An adequate survival level for calorie is around 1000 per person.
    And for the record, I can be a frivolous carbon consuming fool at times. But I definitely welcome any changes. Hopefully I can handle it too.
    2008 Jun 07 01:23 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    If you look at historical charts, about twice every decade, the stock indexes plunge about 35% from the top. This current market is considered to be almost an equal %wise to the Great Depression in housing asset devaluation...
    That index run-up was totally manipulated - volume has been 1/3 of a true, expected rally's volume.
    2008 Jun 07 01:52 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    The author should look in the mirror, he is one of the ignorant media talking head referred to in this article.

    If this article was posted even a few days earlier, it would have some value. Posting this after the friday bloodbath shows he's just another lemming following the herd to create fear after a down market, they are the same ones that were posting bullish crap when the sp500 was at a double top at 1420 a few weeks ago.

    Dont listen to any of those "experts", seekingalpha is a cesspool full of those amateurs. Use your own technical and price/volume/time, filter out all the noise. I belive we still have a few relatively large down days left, then the market should be bottoming out, setting up for a good summer rally.
    2008 Jun 07 02:15 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    We (South) Africans have long ago learned how to have a good quality of life on very little. Its time the US also learned this (hi-tech is only partially the answer). The US is the most efficient economy? Please. I'm putting my money squarely in the new energy camp. And that doesnt mean a battery-powered Cadillac . Its a headspace thing.
    2008 Jun 07 03:07 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Technically, most market indexes (and this includes Europe) have retraced to the pre 911 level. By doing this they have built a HUGE double top and "w" reversal formation. Additionally, Moving Averages show 'death crosses' . The outlook for the next months (except for certain sectors) is certainly not brilliant. Hence the idea to move into cash and to reallocate it later this year upon weakness surely is not a stupid one. One ONE condition though... assets must be moved into REAL MONEY (gold and silver). (goldonomic.com publishes more on these reversal patters)
    2008 Jun 07 05:53 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Oil at $139 a barrel. I'm short the SPY. So far , So good. I will explain my short @ theinvestingspeculator...
    2008 Jun 07 07:13 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    I went to 100% cash at YE 07 and have been waiting for a MAJOR correction. I, maybe like some of you, was almost willing to believe my senses (and intellect) had deceived me and that we just might escape a severe market plunge... IMO, this article makes complete sense to me and puts things into a very understandable albeit sobering context.

    Unfortunately, I think we may be reentering a period similar to the 1970's and need to be very defensive and look for 1) preservation of capital and 2) returns to offset the coming inflation.
    2008 Jun 07 07:28 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    I continue to be in the market but also have a larger than ever cash position. Cash maybe king but it is losing each month to inflation. Right now I find very few, if any, investments for investors and savers are being killed also. Oil will put us in a depression.
    2008 Jun 07 08:07 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    go to cash with inflation and lose money.. rather buy wal mart stock as everyone is running to wal mart and costco to cut food costs and other purchases.. they still need to eat.
    2008 Jun 07 08:17 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    sounds like its time to attack Iran or someone else
    to get everyone's mind off the doom and gloom.
    Isnt that the US way these days?
    2008 Jun 07 08:19 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    ajhough- I agree, it "is" very difficult to find investments to offset inflation (now and future). Nonetheless, I prefer to preserve my net worth and be in a position to take advantage of buying opportunities when the market really tanks.

    Unfortunately, I fully expect this may happen in the not too distant future and oil will likely be the published reason (supported by all the other excesses of the past 5-10 years).

    This is truly a different environment than anything I've seen in my 45 years of investing. Couldn't be happening at a worse time for all the baby boomers who have attempted to be responsible and build wealth for retirement.
    2008 Jun 07 08:26 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    There is truly only one place to look for signs that we are near a fall...Costco or your local Sam's Club. It's Saturday, and if people are pushing double shopping carts and loading up on essentials we are screwed.
    The masses will push their credit card to the limit to stock-up in times of weakness. Head out today and see what the average middle-income family is doing....
    2008 Jun 07 08:28 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    wall st. has turned into vegas or the other casinos only slower.no,im not a communist or socialist but capitalism with the greed & lack of ethics,the lying administration &congress is is weakening.what & when it will be replaced i dont know. its sad to see a great country like ours begin its downward slide while its citizens keep their heads in the sand(as long as its oil sand).
    2008 Jun 07 08:45 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    i have never seen so many blithering idiots talking at the same place.
    2008 Jun 07 08:46 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Mr. Summers. I see from your website that you specialize in global investment analysis. Yet in your article you only addressed historical market conditions with the US. It seems to me you didn't take into account three important factors influencing the US market. First, the significantly larger global customer base that supports the profits of so many US businesses from Caterpillar to Google. Second, the multitude of foreign companies trading on US exchanges whose profits are not reliant on US customers. And third, the increased attention foreign companies in places like South Korea and Europe are receiving from Warren Buffet, and I suspect from other holding companies as well. I admit I'm new to serious investing and I'm learning the value of applying lessons from past US market trends, such as your main point in the article. But given the ever expanding global market I think it surely will temper the degree to which the US market may decline. For me your article seems reactionary to the past rather than taking into account the very different market conditions of today.
    2008 Jun 07 08:54 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Heh JD, it takes one to know one.:-)
    2008 Jun 07 08:55 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    tidewater libertarian~

    Did you know that in July of 1936 it was 108 in Minneapolis?

    It was 104 in 1934,

    and wow, in the same year it hit 106.

    Holy crap. the end is near. The oceans are going to boil and our only hope is to vote for Obama.

    This is the typical SA article where the buffoons preach to the buffoons.

    The only difference here is that the author actually called the buffoons buffoons in the article. Nice job you all.

    Not one lick of sense amongst the whole of you.

    2008 Jun 07 08:57 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    What an overly simplistic, dumb, and irresponsible view of the market and the world.

    If you are so sure the market is about to tank, then why not recommend shorting the market??? The fact that you recommend cash and not shorting clearly shows that you don't even have enough confidence in your own theory to invest in it!
    2008 Jun 07 09:01 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    As one of these "novice investors", I guess it may be time to take heed.
    2008 Jun 07 09:14 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    I have been buying truck loads of qid ,dxd,fxp, and xhb.
    If the market goes down 20 % in few weeks I will be up 40 %.
    I am a novice and have put 1.5 millon in the above etfs.
    If any expert has a better Idea please let me Know.
    2008 Jun 07 09:19 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    "As Bill King put it in an earlier essay, “There is a whole generation of traders whose knowledge of investing and financial history dates back to 1990 at most. Put another way, there are thousands and thousands of guys in their 40s who trade for a living and have never seen a real bear market or recession.” "


    HILARIOUS. full of holes, me thinks....
    so bill king is saying that having experience that spans EIGHTEEN YEARS (thats 18, folks) isn't really enough to qualify one to trade profitably. GENIUS. are you kidding me?? how many years would "qualify" someone as legit in his eyes?? traders have the ability to open long and short positions, making them adept and profitable in ANY kind of market.
    also - you go on to say in the next paragraph:

    "These investors, while more sophisticated than their novice counterparts, are almost equally ignorant of any market development outside of their trading models and investment frameworks."

    well which are they, graham? INVESTORS or TRADERS? two different animals completely. you YOURSELF acknowledge that. your comparison is completely moot, and how can you make a blanket statement that most TRADERS (who have been trading PROFITABLY for 10 + years) are ignorant of any market development outside of their trading models and investment frameworks? (once again you are throwing in the old "investment" word....). do you know ANYTHING about trading? if you did, you would know that discretionary traders ALWAYS take into account the market developments outside their trading models.

    sloppy and lazy writing, graham. shame on you for even printing this.
    you said: "Their job was to provide content in large quantities, not content of high quality."


    you certainly got that right.....
    2008 Jun 07 09:33 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    so i visited the GPS capital research website, and it ALL makes sense now. i get it. the fact is, you are full of it. you have a "research firm" (let's face it - its just YOU), and a newsletter that you peddle to the SAME people you feel are too dumb to be investing (because let's face it, the PROS aren't buying your newsletter, graham). if you TRULY believe the crap that you put in your article, then i can't imagine that your newsletters, for the next "coming months" isn't really going to have much value, since most subscribers would be better off in cash......right? (unless you know of some high paying cd's or money market rates)
    2008 Jun 07 09:44 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    and one last thing - bill king said:"There is a whole generation of traders whose knowledge of investing and financial history dates back to 1990 at most. Put another way, there are thousands and thousands of guys in their 40s who trade for a living and have never seen a real bear market or recession.”

    well i ask you lemmings? are we in a bear market? i'll bet you say YES, and bill king, himself, has said that we are IN a recession. wo WTF is he talking about?? it really annoys me when people lazily make sh-t up, just to bring home a point......
    2008 Jun 07 09:55 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Ok, so use ultrashorts and shorts on indexes (and the dollar if its falling that day). Still makes money in downturns - DXD, QID, UDN
    2008 Jun 07 09:56 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    this is quite hilarious, great way to kill some free time,
    as George is fond of saying, "bring it on" boys..
    2008 Jun 07 10:00 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    i know. i really need to get a life....
    2008 Jun 07 10:05 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    And also, ha, i came across a book Understanding the Stock Market by Cragg from 1927! Just before the Great Depression; he writes of how depressions like the panic of 1907 are gone for good because of the wonderful Fed...well... hahaha.
    Anyhow, what got me was a description of a cycle that was known in the markets even back then ~ depression, revival, prosperity, over-extension of credit, then back to depression... sound like the housing bubble? its an old story...although i believe what Cragg called depression we call recession.

    What is different now is PETROLEUM. If we are running into a production ceiling...expect wars...famine....major problems globally.

    That'll potentially destabilize markets to say the least. I say, on US exchanges, go with commodities, top defense contractors, and oil futures...see where that takes you over the next three years.
    2008 Jun 07 10:16 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    how about selling bomb shelters to Iranians??
    2008 Jun 07 10:24 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    hey, leave morality out of this
    2008 Jun 07 10:45 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Nothing strange about this post. A genius speaking to the unwashed masses how only he can help them. (sounds like Obama). Sorry I think the man in the street is far more intelligent then most geniuses.

    The worst thing an invester can do is to go in and out of the market like a scared rabbit.
    2008 Jun 07 10:48 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    You should read this: beanieville.blogspot.c...

    Are you the expert?
    2008 Jun 07 10:53 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Whatever is to come, anyone who is a trader needs to preserve capital in the current market. Whether you do it with options as hedges, using a combination of long and short positions or placing very tight stops, you must protect capital. Now is not the time to depend on luck (or hubris). Yes, you may have whiplash losses and small slippages, but now is the time to quard against large losses.

    If you are a long term investor, maintaining a larger than customary cash position is very wise. It is not a bad time to realize some long term capital gains to increase cash. After all, you may not have the current tax environment in the future either. Finally, I agree with the comments others have made about diversifying globally.
    2008 Jun 07 10:54 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    I agree with this author's general view of things. Long US equities are the last place a retail investor needs to be. I'm interested in why there's no discussion of shorting the market. I have a decent position in RRZ (2x inverse Russel 2K) - got in too early and have a small paper loss as of Thursday, but fully expect to recoup that and more. The key is to learn to make money in up AND down markets. For those to advocate gold/silver instead of cash - many IMO very credible commentators feel we're entering a deflationary spiral where precious metals won't hold up well. The inflationary case looks strong too. Stagflation looks like the most likely outcome to me. But gold in particular has been closely correlated with oil the last few months. Many people feel oil is well into bubble territory and due for a hard fall. Until oil prices stabilize or take a sharp correction, gold looks risky. Cash is returning negative real returns now - but that might just be the price we have to pay for safety for the next few months.
    2008 Jun 07 11:19 AM | Link | Reply
  •  
    Fritz Hottinger began issuing market warnings back in 2007. suggested moving to cash, and using SDS as an anchor to windward.
    You can read his alerts here:
    hottingersignals.com/e...
    2008 Jun 07 11:29 AM | Link | Reply
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    If you stick with the basics we all know its bad out there. Oil, food, utilities etc etc etc and wages are not keeping up. The talking heads talk about companies exceeding profits (after they halfed expectation a month earlier). A stock is just a peice of paper valued on what? Dividends (maybe) but most likely on the profitability of the company, since it won't be liquidated to book value (and provide a payout)which would be a lot less. This market has made investor into day traders because no one with any common sence wants be have market exposure and if no ones standing in line to buy your position its really just a ponzi scheme. Now with the fed and the plunge protection team at work is not even a free and open market. The great depression is not a myth it did occur and this economy is setting up earily similar. unpresidented federal action ,Loose credit, bankruptcys, bank failures etc. One last thing everything George Bush touched in business went bust his oil company the baseball team but he always walked away richer and leaving ruins behind. My prediction is the Fed and gov will keep things afloat till after the new president is in office then we will see a major depression.
    2008 Jun 07 11:39 AM | Link | Reply
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    Graham!
    Thanks for a thought-provoking article!
    The emotional ranges of the comments above tell me that you have indeed struck a nerve.
    The endless arguments about whether an article like this is 'right' or 'wrong' or 'too bullish' or 'too bearish' actually proves your case.
    The point many have missed is that the current market is a more dangerous place to be simply because it has become a 'trader's market', with breakouts, breakdowns, rallies, and failures all over the charts. (A 5-second glance a 2-year weekly chart of SPY will illustrate this change from pre-November 2007 very clearly.)
    It is clear to me that many of your readers have never traded in an environment like this before!
    There will soon be only 2 kinds of traders out there; the nimble and the dead!
    2008 Jun 07 12:21 PM | Link | Reply
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    Does the fact that I am under 40 and started trading in 1993 make me "un-equipped" to deal with market declines? I think quite the contrary....Late 90's long term capital, the asian contagent, the rise and fall of the Internet bubble, 911, the real estate boom and now bust, make me further believe that if anything the timeline in which I entered the market (The 90's) is when volatility was being put on the map! That being said, I believe my youth and experience are especially beneficial rather than a detriment as eluded too by the author.
    2008 Jun 07 12:42 PM | Link | Reply
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    great article w/great post-responses

    wouldn't it be interesting if 401's were also required to allow purchases of actual treasuries?

    what would many 40 to 50 to 60 yr olds choose to put their $ into as they age?

    free markets? - let individuals have full choice in their 401's
    2008 Jun 07 12:57 PM | Link | Reply
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    No one here knows anything of relevance, including the author of the article. It's all a guessing game, even among the so-called experts. I'm financially ignorant and don't even try to predict or understand what has happened or is about to happen in the market. I'm tired of watching Maria B, and the like, on CNBC have an orgasm when the market rallies one day, but then crashes the next. I've been an indexer, dollar cost averager, and asset allocator since 1985 and have been quite successful, even through 1987, 2000-02, and January-March 2008 to present. It all works out over time. Don't worry, be happy.
    2008 Jun 07 12:59 PM | Link | Reply
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    Shorting this market is not easy. You have to have conviction, and be willing to not stop-out unless its a 20% move or so. The market , especially financials and discretionary retail, is so heavily shorted that manipulations create vicious covering rallys. Thats all most of the rallys of the last few months were, short covering. The situation. The willingness of the insurers to downgrade monolines, etc all point to the major institutions now being positioned to absorb a large drop, which will be followed by a manipulation induced rally, which they will game to make $$, just like the last rally. Its how they fleece J6P. But it wont be the bottom, we are no where close.
    2008 Jun 07 01:29 PM | Link | Reply
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    I agree with the author in that the market has had a false bull rally coming of its earlier lows and will indeed find a new but not until later this year. My prediction has always been that it will be in November of this year, 2008. I do predict a general malaise for the next few weeks and then in July, the market will reach a new low, but this low will not be the final one. Everyone will THINK its the new low and then some money will pour into the market and we'll have a mini-bull rally from August until Octoberish.

    Then a new crash will occur because by then it will be apparent that inflation, the housing depreciation and high oil prices will have dug deeper into the economy more than anyone originally thought.

    And we will all know that we will be in a recession (long and nasty) that will not recover until late 2009, early 2010.

    And even then P/E ratios will continue to adjust downward and commodities will continue to rise until the year 2017. That will mark the end of the bear market that started in 2000. By then P/E ratios will be much lower and American society will have changed a bit.

    Now am I supposed to stay in cash until the year 2017?

    Or until November 2008? Which is it because I believe what I said will pan out to be correct.

    There is always a bull market even in a bear market. Even when the market crashed 400 points, there WERE gainers.

    So this article is a mixed bag. Whats an investor to do? What do you do with your 401K when the crappy index funds you have available all lose money over the long term?

    When the SPX is LOWER in the year 2017 than it was in the year 2000, how are you supposed to build wealth?

    You become a SMARTER investor. But yeah he is probably right, a lot of people will get hurt. Keep your 401K in the "stable valur fund and get that 3-4% steady every year is the best you can hope for.
    2008 Jun 07 01:45 PM | Link | Reply
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    If your within 10 years of retirement and you see a further 50% fall like post 911 you may be waiting 20 years to come back to even. I held in 1999 because that was based on fear not technicals. Look at the technicals today, the federal deficit and budget, SS IOU's, soaring inflation-materials-en... We are an economy in decline. Undertaxed, morgaging our future and leaving our debt to our children. No company would be run this way and no county should be inflating itself out if debt by stealing 10% a year from the dollar and most cruelly effecting the retired and those saving to retire.
    2008 Jun 07 01:48 PM | Link | Reply
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    Adan- Some companies allow you to do that with PCRAs (personally directed retirement accounts). You can buy just about anything you want. I think it would be a good idea to make that standard, but unfortunately that's not the case.

    Daffy- You should do yourself a favor and stick with topics you actually know something about. I can tell, quite easily that you know squat about climatology.

    For your benefit, what you are describing are meteorological events. Meteorology is for short timescales; there will be anomalies (periods of heat or cold, drought or flood, etc.).

    Climatology is based on long timescales, usually decades to centuries. To illustrate, a week of above normal temperatures really won't affect climatological results that much. However, ten years of above normal temperatures will.

    In other words, you can't point to your thermometer and say, "It's below freezing outside, so much for global warming." It doesn't make any sense. That would be like me pointing to a single blade of dead grass on my lawn and saying, "There's a blade of dead grass, so much for Chem-Lawn!".

    Another piece of information you overlook is that the warming is an average taken over the globe, not your backyard or any particular city of choice. Some places will get warmer, others will get cooler, and yet others will stay the same. It's the overall global average that is going up, not your backyard.

    Lastly, global averages have been rising. Now whether you want to believe it is anthropogenic (man-made), or some natural cycle, or a combination of both is up to you. The copious scientific research pretty much lays most of it at our feet. But what do scientist know compared to some semi-anonymous poster on a financial board.

    As far as the article goes, I'm sending the author a bill for the bandwidth I had to use to download it. While it is pretty clear to see that market it is for some rocky times, it has little to do with some spooky global conspiracy or the general intelligence of the investing population. The sky is dipping, not falling. And for anyone on this board, that shouldn't indicate a time to panic, but a time to buy.

    ~X~
    2008 Jun 07 01:50 PM | Link | Reply
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    What a bunch of sour pusses. Gyrations happen. In most of the turmoil, it is the "small" investors that are the stalwarts to whom "buy and hold" actually means something. It is the "expert" money managers worried about quarterly comparisons that are constantly jumping in and out.

    The biggest problem we face is the falling dollar. The glory of the market is that sooner or later, corrections happen. Take any money you need in the next six to twelve months out of the market to protect it and let the rest ride. Don't try to time it, just stay diversified and rest easy. Things may get ugglier. So what? We've been through this sort of stuff before. We'll get through it again.

    Finally, don't trust a Press that is desperate to see their candidate win this Fall. They will do all they can to make people feel like they are reliving the Great Depression. They did it for Clinton 16 years ago, they tried to do it for Kerry in '04 and they will do it for Obama this year.
    2008 Jun 07 02:00 PM | Link | Reply
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    No doubt we are in a recession. Being self-employed for 22 years, I know it when I see it. But the charts are telling a different story - the march low will hold, foreign equities will outperform, EUR/YEN will go higher. Cheers!...
    2008 Jun 07 02:14 PM | Link | Reply
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    How many of you voted for king george iii bush and wished the hell you didn't??????
    2008 Jun 07 02:33 PM | Link | Reply
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    Elcopone is 100% right. If you fear a big downside, all you have to do is short the market. That´s professional. A 100% cash portfolio is not enough good when inflation erodes its buying power day after day.
    2008 Jun 07 02:41 PM | Link | Reply
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    It all depends on what you are buying. If you are buying for the long-term, which all should do, then a market decline provides a buying opportunity.
    2008 Jun 07 03:15 PM | Link | Reply
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    Graham,

    I agree with your commentary completely. The market has transitioned in its dynamics significantly since the 90's with the advent of "home trading". Unfortunetely the main stream media keep telling people to "buy the dips" irrespective of the potential for a long and deep bear market. I studied the tech bubble crash of 2000 and the same situation existed then as we have currently. Only a few people were candid enough to speak up about what they saw coming with the crash, and those who did speak about a significant market crash were often ridiculed by the media that was interviewing them. Same thing is happening again now. Good article Graham. Chuck www.rebeltraders.net
    2008 Jun 07 03:19 PM | Link | Reply
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    This is a great article it give all young and old , experienced trader and novice a look at the historical perspective.

    The fact that a Obama win in November will probably result in a 30% cumulative tax increase within 18 months, plus a wind fall profits tax on our oil companies along with a cap,tax and trade deal relating to carbon dioxide emmissions will only further sink the American cousumer and taxpayer. The result will be more increases in costs of all energy, more increases in food costs and more inflation all around followed with more government regulation and of course the extra taxes.

    What will not occur is any market solution to one damn problem facing us. This is especially true of oil and energy because the Democrats and their radical environmental friends will continue to block efforts to drill for oil domesticly and off-shore. And block the building of new safe nuclear plants. plus block building more oil refineries, and coal to liquids plants. Note: Teddy Kennedy did not even want a wind farm in his back yard. So much for Democrat solutions

    Heck most people are unaware that in additiion to having to import about 65% of our oil supply yearly we also have to import about
    18% of our refined oil products thanks to Democrats and their radical environmentalist friends.

    When the market wakes up to this reality it will most certainly head lower because withot adequate and affordable energy all else stops.
    2008 Jun 07 03:35 PM | Link | Reply
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    Lots of anger and emotion here. Lots of close minded ranting. Nobody can be sure of anything and I think having so many facts and beliefs stuffed into your heads is only detrimental to successful investment strategies. If you're worried about your investments then go ahead and take your gains or losses now then wait on the sidelines until the market calms down. Too many investors have a Nostradamus complex. None of you know as much as you think you do --even if your right about the current market troubles.
    2008 Jun 07 03:44 PM | Link | Reply
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    Can't argue with this.. Albeit I remain long the C$ trust which are paying me nicely whether the shares go up or down, and being mostly energy related, I expect to see dividend increasing as they sign new supply contracts at currently market prices.
    2008 Jun 07 03:58 PM | Link | Reply
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    there is nothing like a start of a good war to boost the falling economy! How about it men? lets pick a country and go for it before it is too late.
    2008 Jun 07 04:20 PM | Link | Reply
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    What's with all the Obama bashing by Daffy, pilot dan, etc? Kudlow worshipers? The markets historically do better under Dems. Relax.
    2008 Jun 07 06:54 PM | Link | Reply
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    It's not just the Fed and the Guvmint that can move the market.

    That loud talking former Israeli war minister - threatening to attack Iran - created the vision of a closed Straight of Hormuth and $300 oil.

    Maybe he should be investigated to see if he had a lot of short positions.

    Dan
    2008 Jun 07 07:25 PM | Link | Reply
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    Isreal will hit Irans centerfuges within the next 45 days look for a mooless night before the olympics, why was Bush just in Isreal? For a vacation! The dow theory was just breached bearish/down industrials and transports just dropped below the 50DMA. Remember youy trading/investing against the black boxes the computers are doing most of the trading on TA for the big boys. Better to be safe than sorry. IF you can time the bottom you'll beat a buy and hold invester evey day. Any way this is not an index market its definately a stock pickers market.
    2008 Jun 07 09:05 PM | Link | Reply
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    I agree with the premise of the article, which is admittedly pure speculation: there is a widespread belief that the US stock market only goes up, except when it briefly (and sometimes sharply) corrects, only to resume going up again. This sentiment is reflected in some of the comments above, ala "we will get through this". People believe that you can't take the opposite side of a trade from the Fed, that it is suicide to do so. This has been true for most of the lives of most of us here and until recently was sound investment advice.

    There are problems larger than the Fed. The intergenerational liability of $50 Trillion is one example. There are only two solutions for this debt, and both involve destroying the dollar: one is repudiation, the other is monetization. Hobbes' choice.

    The inflation solution was already being pursued with quiet determination since 2000, and would still be under quiet pursuit had the credit bubble not burst and shined a spotlight on it.

    I've been out of (most) US stocks and into PM's, miners, TIPS (getting out of them now as well), and shorts since fall 07. No regrets. I am amazed at the resilience of bullish sentiment, as I suspect is the author, and I have come to the same conclusion as to the source of this undying bullishness: inexperience. I think it is an excellent example of a paradigm, and one that I have been ranting about here and elsewhere.

    Anyone who takes off his rose-colored glasses and looks at the banks can only come to one conclusion: they're broke. Epically broke. The Fed has loaned them more than half its balance sheet, and that is only enough to make them seem solvent as long as we don't discuss Level 3. Non-borrowed reserves in July was $40 Billion; today it is NEGATIVE $130 Billion. It has never been negative before in history.

    The Fed is "exchanging" its Treasuries at the TSLF for radioactive RMBS; the banks then use these Treasuries at the Fed as collateral at the Discount Window. Why? Because the banks' balance sheets are shredded, and no bank trusts any other bank's collateral for overnight funds. The banks have no cash (reserves) of their own to meet reserve requirements and no assets either. THERE IS NO MONEY. Wait until the next $5Trillion of Level 3 hits the books. And it ain't going to hit as AAA either, since MBIA and Ambac finally got downgraded. So much for timely due diligence. When all these downgraded "assets" hit the books, guess what happens to reserve requirements?

    Yet some of you keep buying stocks like the Fed has your backs. Good luck with that. The only way out of this is the printing press. Ask oil, oil already knows.
    2008 Jun 07 11:26 PM | Link | Reply
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    wow swrichmond - kinda pessimistic, aren't we? although things aren't going swimmingly, i don't understand the purpose of your post. should we all go out and kill ourselves?
    2008 Jun 08 12:22 AM | Link | Reply
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    philc, right.

    nobody knows shit. including me.

    There is some, I believe, TRUE info in the article and in the written responses...as in "true" from that omniscient all correct perspective.

    a bunch of squirrels posting ideas about how to get 100 nuts in a forest with 5.

    shorts....seriously. as long as there is a market, it will go either up or down.

    Ok.. once you get that idea, try to watch the thing and see how high or low it goes... try to watch its movements like you are stalking prey... watch the parameters... jesus, i barely have time to explain this.

    Expert? no. but i understand a little.
    2008 Jun 08 12:34 AM | Link | Reply
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    Buy when there's blood in the streets...
    2008 Jun 08 12:35 AM | Link | Reply
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    Oil knows nothing - but the speculators chasing the price seem to know something. Just for the saying, what is short is refining capacity - not oil, and what is long are customers outside of the USA still willing (and I did NOT say capable) to pay for it. This can only break when a) subsidies on fuel start disappearing and b) countries start offloading their USD links, both directly in terms of currency and in terms of trade.
    The markets will wobble and sway their way downwards as the pont of indifference between losing your cash on inflation or losing your capital altogether varies based on sentiments and manipulation of central bankers.
    If you have the cash in hand - you may have to do a little hard work these days - and directly find, buy and manage companies with positive cash flow - using actual money. These are the only guys who will be the winners. The rest of us will be fleeced to pay off the bankers and the feds of this world - as they both need each other to survive, and they have the rules on their side to make sure they survive, and at your expense.
    What is needed is a clear and delivered message of putting interest rates UP - to put some back into the US $. It will flush out the bad loans and all those who took a fat chance will pay for their mistakes and (unbacked) greed.
    If this does not happen, it will be a slow slide to hell, and you will pay for it anyway in stagflation. However the bankers and the Fed will always prefer the slow boiled frog to the quick leap into the fire -the first way they get to stay in their jobs and plead that they had no choice. The result is the same - but the process even more protracted and painfull. Easy money is over - the system is striking back. Have an nice day.
    2008 Jun 08 12:51 AM | Link | Reply
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    "wow swrichmond - kinda pessimistic, aren't we? although things aren't going swimmingly, i don't understand the purpose of your post. should we all go out and kill ourselves?"

    No, you should realize what's happening here and takes steps to protect yourself.

    Every generation ignores the lessons learned by the previous and it's time for a class at the school of hard knocks for a generation of young investors.
    2008 Jun 08 01:05 AM | Link | Reply
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    i see what's happening, but i never try to predict what is GOING to happen. i am trained to react, not to prognosticate and i practice strict money management (it'll save you every time...). there's always a bull market somewhere, and there is money to be made in any climate. hell, january 08 was one of my best months, yet one of the worst for the market in recent history. and it wasn't because i saw what was going to take place. this is a traders market, and the buy and hold crowd are hard pressed not to vomit through all of this volatility. i've learned MANY lessons in my years trading and ONE of the most important is - DON'T TRY TO PREDICT THE FUTURE. it is the game of amateurs and charlatans. and if some yahoo preaches the end of the world and that the sky is falling, you had better start buying by the handful....
    2008 Jun 08 01:25 AM | Link | Reply
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    Irrespective of whether a market goes up, down or sideways you can make money.

    Thet theory that you buy and hold for the long term is gone.

    I have no loyalty to any particular stock or sector. On a given day or set of days I invest only in sectors and stocks that are on an upswing.

    Since I started following a short term oriented trading strategy I have realized a gain of 65% in just the last 2 months.

    I plan to make money no matter which direction the market goes. I really don't care where the market ends -- I just plan to enjoy the ride and make money.
    2008 Jun 08 01:55 AM | Link | Reply
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    The author sure is for sure about the future. Could be right! But why? The distant past projects the future or the gut is never wrong! Earnings are falling apart. Overall demand is falling. The pro would have you believe that inflation is the #1 enemy, this is far from the truth. Deflation is the actual bet. Bonds are the way to invest. The price of oil is inflationary, the gas price is recessionary. The higher the price of gas, the more demand drys up for everything else. Several other factors are going to effect the economy. The CPI is a very good look at what it measures. The core rate should turn negative as the demand for products drys up. The companies will have trouble passing on cost in this type of economy. Another worry for the fed is direction of long term rates. The housing mess demands lower rates and higher inflation to stop the bleeding. Lower rates means higher energy and food prices, and lower demand for other everything else. The increase of level 3 assets on bank balance sheets argues against this crunch being over. Conclusion is another japanese style bank crisis. The sad part is any future real growth will be assumed to be inflationary and rates will rise.
    2008 Jun 08 05:27 AM | Link | Reply
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    We are not undertaxed, we are overspent. Theres a difference. The US consumer can not be taxed anymore, they already are unable to save because real earnings have declined over time. Frivoulous spending, initiatives, social programs etc. need to dissapear, this has killed the US. We cannot continue this path.

    2008 Jun 08 08:44 AM | Link | Reply
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    SWrichmond is right on regarding the insolvency of the financials. Add to that the insolvence of the entire US government due to unfunded entitlements and the only way out is repudiation or inflation.

    In the process, there will be some of both. For example, how many $100,000 medical procedures do you think that Obama's recommended government health programs will be able to provide for those over 85 years old. It is harsh to say this, but reality is that the nation will untimately "sacrifice" the elderly by refusing the pay for state of the art medical care AND by inflating the economy as a hidden way of taxing all savers.

    Add to the above the following:

    1. Trade protectionism will destroy export markets.
    2. International strife will strain our will and financial resources (e.g. North Korea, Iran, fundamental Islam, left wing dictators).
    3. Global warming and other enviornmental issues will create political roadblocks to efficient economical responses to the various challenges.
    4. Consumer debt, as measured by any historical metric, is grossly out of balance. This will mean years of substantial pull back.
    5. Everyone, both private sector and public leaders, is primarily out for their own short term monetary gain. Each will engage in whatever lies or intellectually dishonest statements they believe will give them something today. The distrust of the people for both business and government cannot be overstated. Even well meaning, creative and honest proposals will be savaged for political reasons.

    Finally, we are in for a ruthless competition with the rest of the world. We have had it too good for too long and we lack the willpower needed to handle the tough times. We will turn on each other before we will honestly determine that we need to change the nation in responses to the realities of the world. Just like the fundamental Islamists, we will be satisfied if we have someone to blame.

    The above is the bright side.

    Consider these possible future events: Nuclear terrorism; killer antibotic resistant bacteria; a return to ethnic and religious tribalism; global warming out of control; breakdown of worldwide financial systems and resulting riots over food and energy (already beginning). Bad enough for these to possibly happen...Worse yet, we simply cannot manage our minds and emotions to deal with either the RISK of any of them, or with the consequences of any of them.

    2008 Jun 08 09:13 AM | Link | Reply
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    bigbuilder is RIGHT. i am digging a hole and pulling it in after me!!



    drivel. pure and simple.
    i am trying to figure out what is NEW on your list

    what is wrong with you people?? i'll bet you're a SCREAM at parties!!!
    2008 Jun 08 10:07 AM | Link | Reply
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    Your comments have caused many gurus to rise from their cloistered positions. Don't forget the guru of gurus, Henry Kissinger, who said that when you control petrolum you control da economy, and when you control food you control da people. Maybe we should listen to him as his plans for controlled starvation are now in effect in many parts of the world. When the Chinese were slaughtering their own citizens in Tienemen Square, Kissinger also said on public TV...vell, ve must have law and order first. So now dat da market is headed for da toilet, vell...where is Henry? All I know is that my favorite guru, Chris Laird, moved his operation to a small farm in Kansas away from the maddening crowd. That tells me more of what is about to happen then all you gurus.
    2008 Jun 08 10:16 AM | Link | Reply
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    frankie

    Disprove my statements, or not. I'll wait patiently while you develop a coherent argument that explains why negative $130 Billion in nonborrowed reserves is not a problem. I am understandably anxious to hear how how the US Congress will deal effectively with $50 Trillion in intergenerational liability. Your explanation of why the TSLF could close tomorrow and everything would be rosy will also be welcomed by all. I for one will be all ears when you explain why a chart of USDX since 2001 doesn't show that inflation was the government's deliberate and preferred policy. Lastly, I can't wait for you to tell us clearly and unequivocably why we should hold dollar-denominated assets.

    There is always some yahoo predicting the end of the world, just as there is always some yahoo that believes stocks always go up. There is always someone who says "this time it's different." Believe what you want. But if you want to demean points presented by myself or others, then it is probably advisable to say something more than:

    "wow swrichmond - kinda pessimistic, aren't we? although things aren't going swimmingly, i don't understand the purpose of your post. should we all go out and kill ourselves?"

    Or this equally valuable gem:
    "drivel. pure and simple.
    i am trying to figure out what is NEW on your list

    what is wrong with you people?? i'll bet you're a SCREAM at parties!!!"

    Well?
    2008 Jun 08 03:27 PM | Link | Reply
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    richmond - i have let it go too far, starting a discussion that i could not possibly finish (its sunday and i actually TRADE for a living and i there is much record keeping i have to catch up on....). i will, however, give a reason for my posts - i don't understand your purpose. fine, the market is coming to end. the world is coming to an end. what's your solution? everyone who posts these doom and gloom messages has NO SOLUTION or plan for IF and WHEN their predictions come true. what color is YOUR parachute? are you all in cash? shame on me for even posting. good night. happy trading!!

    :)
    2008 Jun 08 09:15 PM | Link | Reply
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    frankie

    You make fun of my statements and then tell me you don't give a f*ck what I think? I'll bet you're a scream at parties.

    :)
    2008 Jun 08 11:19 PM | Link | Reply
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    I'm still long, albeit I've rotated out of technology (EDS, ESLR & LDK) and I'm buying all the potash (IPI) that a man should ever desire. I'm not an oil speculator, so that leaves potash... Potash!

    As far as I can see, this is still a bull market... Yes, the bull keeps hoppping around, but that's what bulls do best (well, second-best). I'm up 33%, so far this year! In twenty-three years of trading, I've NEVER even come close to this level... EDS (takeover), solar (bandwagon) and IPI (IPO). Frankly, that's what scares me! If a high scool grad and colllege dropout, like myself, can turn six figures in five months (OMG, capital gains tax!), there's something very strange going on... I get very suspicious when things either go too well, or too horribly. All that I can say, is that I am thanking God for his blessings and I intend to give Uncle Sam his cut, too... Oh yeah, I've gotten frightened into cash, three times in the last 9 months, but cash is only good for buying stuff and the only stuff I buy is stock... Buy and hold will kill you, right now, but you can still be fully invested (even on margin), as long as you like reading lots of reports and staying online, during market hours... Think of it as you would a job and it's not that gruesome. Stressfull? You bet, but so was working at EDS, on the GM account. Even those without a job, still must work... That's a part of life and I do not resent it, in fact, I love it (even when things aren't going so well, because it feels awesome to head into a choppy sea, with confidence and faith, in God and in myself.)

    Though, volatility is the very thing that puts pizza on my table, I sincerely hope that things slow down... This thing could get out of hand and if it screws the country, it won't matter how wealthy you are. No rich man wants to be surrounded by a bunch of unhappy folks, some of whom, believe that you've ripped them off! Create opportunity for others... Hire people to do housework, yardwork, whatever. If you can't share your fortune, then you are very unfortunate, indeed!

    Best of trading, gentlemen.
    2008 Jun 08 11:23 PM | Link | Reply
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    Mr Summers is giving us his opinion. I respect that, its not just doing a copy paste of articles and trying to look intelligent.
    I see that most readers do not agree with him ; fine, at least he writes what he thinks. I hope he will change his mind and go long if he sees that he made a bad call.
    Nothing wrong with saying "I made a bad call" , I am cutting my shorts, and going long.

    I am bullish on US equities ; and specially on the $USD (probably the most undervalued asset out there)
    I am bullish on techs (using QQQQ index to go long)
    US real estate markets is really undervalued ; so if you own Pounds or Euros, you should consider a trip to America and buy some properties.
    2008 Jun 09 04:26 AM | Link | Reply