New Selling Form Sinks eBay Sellers

The morning of June 20, 2008 started off like any other Florida morning – hot and humid. Little did I know that the day would be a turning point in eBay (EBAY) history, and that a hurricane would be far more welcome than the eBay announcement I read: 

In an effort to improve the buying experience on ebay, we are making changes to the Item Page. We've listened to the needs of both buyers and sellers and are gradually rolling out a page that resembles the one you see below. This newer design helps drive inspiration, transparency of information, and helps improve overall ease and navigation. We hope that you'll like this change. Our goal is to ramp to a point where globally all Item Pages reflect this new design by end of 2008 or early next year.

Apparently, John Donahoe, eBay CEO has made another attempt to amazonize eBay by discontinuing the only thing that actually works on eBay – the "sell your item" form. Soon it will be replaced by a new selling form that will limit seller content and automatically insert advertising in all listings worldwide.

How will this impact sellers? Sellers with customized listings will bear the brunt of John’s newest disruptive innovation as all listings will require revision. We’re talking about millions of listings, and most sellers I spoke with said they’d rather hit the delete button than deal with this catastrophe because:

1. eBay fees are at an all time high;
2. The sell thru rate has dropped like a rock because Best Match doesn’t work despite John’s spin - there are hundreds of thousands of complaints over the last year;
3. Paypal’s 21 day hold on seller funds has put many sellers on the verge of bankruptcy & refunds are now being issued despite seller “no refund” policies;
4. Third party listing services are now prohibited;
5. eBay now controls all communication between buyers & sellers. Sellers are prohibited from adding their confirmed email address to their listings so buyers can ask questions before they purchase;
6. Shipping calculator, eBay checkout, markdown manager, and countdown have never worked from day one and most sellers doubt they never will; and
7. eBay now demands IP addresses from all sellers before they can list to “confirm their identity” when in fact the IP addresses will be used to manipulate searches.

It’s not surprising the selling form was not introduced at eBay Live. The few members that did attend would have probably rioted upon learning that John is planning on using their listings as a vehicle for advertising.

Give me a hurricane any day – but not Hurricane John.

Disclosure: none

 

 

 

 

 

Comments

[Susan52]

That seems a little bit over the top to me, even a bit in the realm of conspiracy theorist (IP addresses used to manipulate searches?? Is there evidence to support this?). One thing I actually like is the email address thing. Anything that can help me keep spam-mail to a minimum is a welcome change. I'd much rather communicate through eBay messages. Besides, there's nothing to prevent a seller from giving a shopper/buyer their email address in an eBay message if there is a reason to do that. As for holding funds bankrupting sellers, sellers will adjust to that, just like they've adjusted to everything else. It's eBay's game. If you don't like their rules, find another sport.

[Tony P.]

For quite a while now Ebay has presented different "looks" to various users. They have not only admitted to this practice, they have given the criteria: users with a 'buyer' history receive more Sponsored Link Adverts than do 'seller' type users. etc.

The evidence is within ebay's posts upon the chat boards. Anyone asking for "evidence" of such practices shows a lack of familiarity with basic ebay practices.

A bigger picture of events is unfolding, brought about by the eBay Live! get-together this past week. The ebay Execs now have a better understanding of just how much damage they have managed to accomplish within the past few months.

Their prior thoughts were guided by the misconception that they are the 800 pound gorilla that can dish-out any level of tripe and the sellers would simply take it. They have now been hit by the realization that that mindset is false.

The "Noise" of unhappy sellers has been personified - up close. Angry voices were heard at every seminar that dealt with ebay policies, and a few of those voices were quite LOUD. The entire event was more like an Intervention for an addict, rather than the networking scene as in the past.

The addict: ebay. The abused substance: power. Absolute monopolistic power. The intervention message: please hear us before we are driven to do something neither one of us really wants. The outcome: ???


You traders don't care about any of this. As long as ebay has $B sitting and $B coming in, you're happy. But, if you knew just how bad the business climate is within ebay... if you knew what deceptions and manipulations of the "metric numbers" take place... if you knew that ebay is fast becoming nothing more than a badly-designed Amazon clone... you would care, very much.

[eBayNuetral]

I think there is some truth in the blog about listing fees being very high and 21 days fee holding has put many small sellers in trouble. But using IP address for manipulating search seems 'conspiracy theory'. I am a software engineer and I am familiar with strategy nowadays many banks use as well to 'mark' a good machine or IP address for security, so that accounts do not get hijacked. Probably that is what eBay is attempting to do. Using IP address to manipulate search, when we are talking about millions of listings per day seems really implausible.

[dinah balk]

Dinah's response to eBay Neutral -

I too thought using IP addresses to manipulate search was implausible until an eBay employee explained it to me.

If I understand it correctly, it boils down to new user vs. registered user, buyer vs. seller, and confirmed IP vs. unconfirmed. But in any case if eBay doesn't hit the delete button on Best Match soon there won't be any buyers or sellers left.

Dinah

[tailhook]

the WSJ has a blog with a whole bunch of comments - go to you tube and search Ebay Live - that video has over 30,000 views - a seller telling ebay how it is - Silicoln Alley Insider has an article also

[ASER]

Rah, Rah, Susan52. You're right these are great changes! I'm going to suggest the 21 day hold to my credit card company and how about my local grocer. I'm sure it would bankrupt them, heck, they'll probably LOVE IT! The WSJ tells the true story of how buyers and sellers feel. RIP Ebay.

[Patricia013]

I can't understand what Donahoe's goals are? I know he's brought my little art business down to nothing at all. It would mean nothing to me now not to list because there's no profit to be had. Its no longer a point of pay up and adapt because its the only place you can make sales. Things have to change before its too late. For every seller I hear who is doing great there are 20 others closing down because they can't make sales. Personally, I've gone from just below powerseller to a little over 100.00 a month and that's with an almost perfect record and elevated listing! That's quite a drop and its going on all around me. Ebay is losing revenue and soon or later it has to show up. Its no longer a point of sellers staying because they can't sell elsewhere - they can no longer sell on EBAY! I don't know if ebay is planning this or are totally out of their minds...but they are losing all kinds of sellers now - large and small....mostly due to their brainchild Best Match. They are also losing buyers - they've been told over and over again KISS - but no - the constant learning curve continues - buyers are almost as upset as sellers! The whole situation is extremely bad and going thru most of the Ebay boards one can clearly see the turmoil....at least every BUT Ebay suits!

ACEOart.net

[eBayNuetral]

Hmm. There is a possibility to rate Sellers 'trustworthiness' based on where IP address is located or if IP belongs to known hacker site IP addresses. I agree. This may not directly manipulate each search, but influence it.

[horsemama]

Sure makes me glad I'm boycotting.

Donahoe should be fired. NOW. Before it gets worse.

[anonymist]

Jeez, it's already happening! Anyone remember reading this from that ebay insider:

5. Item descriptions will be “standardized” with templates which include the posting of a new, universal return policy. Only yearly subscribers to the retail-outlet venue can opt out of these universal return policies but even they cannot alter the template structures being devised.

I can't believe people still doubt that as a hoax - when every day it's coming true piece by piece.

[Corala]

If Donahoe keeps adding to the woes of the sellers,
he is not going to have any left on the sight! Ebay
Live was a testament to how bad things have gotten
this year. The World Wide seller boycotts and the
sellers that have just up and closed up shop there
are effecting the listing counts. Even ebays new pet
Buy.com cant pad up the listing counts along with
ebays tests auctions combined.
Stocks have dropped like a lead ball and are not
recovering. When the Quarterly report comes out
I think the stock holders are going to see what is
happening. Ebay has been dropped from the top
stocks list and Meg Whitman has was selling off
huge blocks of her stock just before the May
date when new changes took effect. Can we
say SEC needs to look into things?
Ebay is buying up stock fast. Is that to prevent
a take over or?????????
AS for a new listing form ( E.....gads), we just got over the night mares from the last SYI3 form they released with tons of bad code and half of it didnt work right for months and months! Here we go again.......
Not for me, Im out of there for good!
It can only get worse from here!

[User 217221]

My listings on ebay always have at least three photographs, the free gallery image and two others I host on my own domain.

According to what I read, the new seller form will prohibit most off-site links but will still allow links to off-site photographs as long as those links don't promote another site.

A question that still remains unanswered from my communications with eBay is whether I will violate that caveat because my domain name where I store my photos is also the primary link to my off-site store.

The minute that eBay makes me pay for the photos I need to sell my goods, I'm history along with my 4.9 DSR's and 100% feedback.

[Watching the Wheels]

I knew there would be more. Why does everyone pin all of this on Donahoe?

The breadth of this plan could not have been thought up and strategized overnight. Thr policy shift was originally announced while Meg was still CEO and if one were to look up share ownership, Saint Pierre can buy and sell most people. Wasn't it he who hired Meg?

Everyone is crying the blues and yet I see no real measurable actions on the part of most of the posters. The petition counts hover at maybe 6,000 signitures combined between the buyers and the sellers. Unfortunately that doesn't even quaulify as a whisper.

" I can't make money elsewhere", cry all the people in the various vent your spleen discussion areas that are fruitful and multiply within the corporate giant. Maybe if you all spent less time discussing ad nauseum, you would generate the hours needed to build an income in different ways.

Maybe had you all functioned as the business owners that you process yourselves to be, some independant thinking and an openness to new ideas would have surfaced.

If you want to boycott something try stopping yourselves from being Ebay's unpaid customer service department.

Bottom line you cannot be abused unless you have granted some form of tacit permission for the abuse to be doled out.

A quote:

"I would rather be a free man in my grave than living like a puppet or a slave" The Harder They Come by Bob Marley

Grow some backbones and another piece of anatomy that I am too lazy to euphamise right now. AND DO WHAT YOU NEED TO DO!!!!!

[anonymist]

Just in case the folks here haven't seen it, this is a copy of the ebay insider confession that's been going around the 'net.

----------------------...

I posted this at the feedback forum at eBay but it was killed by staff less than a minute later. I should have known. My ID will be toast soon anyway. This was the only other place I thought where my statement might have an impact. Do with it what you will. After Chicago, my only desire is to be heard.

There will be those who will not believe me and I sympathize. I wish the facts were fiction but to deny what I know would be to live in a fairyland of make-believe. I understand that the bulk of this “manifesto” reveals a plot so against the spirit of eBay that it will be dismissed as lie. So be it. I cannot force the world to accept it. All I can do is state the truth as I know it and leave it to you and to your common sense and experience to judge.

The deck is stacked against me. Aside from the natural resistance to believe I know that the boards are stocked with eBay’s tools. Their goal will be to discredit me. I will be accused of being a “disgruntled”, “paranoid”, and “emotional” seller. Their words will be specially chosen for effect. That is part of the function of the tools and I am not fazed by it. However, to protect my own identity within the corporation, I cannot be too specific lest the details single me out to the powers that be.

What I intend to reveal is common knowledge to many in the management division behind the scenes.

By the way, the tools are not only the mouthpieces that promote the policies. The psychological tactics employed by the powers that be are far deeper and grander than that. The subtlety of the method is remarkable. The tools come in a wide range of flavors with their own, individual “characteristic” rhetoric. From those who are “for” the policy - and spread various degrees of hostility toward the sellers - to those who are “against” the change - and spread panic and further the divide with the buyers. Both serve the same exact purpose: a manipulation designed to remove the more involved and savvy small to large sellers who will not fit into eBay’s future business plan.

First, let me correct the record regarding the concept of sellers extorting positive feedback. While the violation was known to happen, the activity amounted to less than a tenth of a percent of the yearly transactions. Further, it involved sellers whose feedback percentages were below 80%. The absolute majority of sellers did not engage in such practices. Nevertheless, the powers that be could not resist the fact that promoting this notion of feedback extortion as a wide-spread phenomenon would be the perfect cover with which to hide the true intentions of the policy.

The powers that be want to transform eBay into an overstock warehouse venue. A kind of outlet store for the internet much like a cheaper and streamlined version of Amazon. From a strictly business point of view, given the size of eBay and the growing costs of doing business, it makes a certain kind of sense to shift gears. Think about it: when eBay started, sellers were about rare and unique items but here and now the majority of items are common, used counterparts of what can be found new online at retail sites. Truly rare and unique items are sold at real auctions; the “stuff in your attic” isn’t glamorous enough and won’t keep eBay afloat any longer.

The trend away from the rare and unique to the big box retailer is not new. Several years ago the powers that be noticed that the big “powersellers” were simply listing items that existed in their retail stores or inventories. Thus the concept of “buy it now”, “best offer”, and “eBay stores” were created. It was the nascent stage of the plan yet to be. Little by little, without the population noticing, the mechanisms required to replicate the average retail storefront were already in place - and with its rise came the slow, steady downfall of the auction format.

Yet outright pursuit of a retail venue would have led to a major problem that at the time could not have been surmounted. The vast majority of people, on and off line, know eBay as precisely the place for auctions of rare and unique items. The sellers and buyers held onto that perception too but in truth their opinion even involvement in new and improved version of eBay is irrelevant by a certain Machiavellian calculation made by the powers that be. As part of the plan, eBay calculated thus: even if they lost the sellers as part of the change, the buyers will be coming back to buy regardless of who or what operated within the retail-outlet venue.

No, it was the stock holders who the powers that be feared.

Only the stockholders had the power to change the direction set forth by the CEO and the board. So it became imperative to change the equation. Part of the plan is to devalue the stock gradually so that investors merely dumped the stock as opposed to wanting managerial change ala Yahoo. Then to buy back the stock at lower cost and to such a volume that no rebellion against the powers that be were possible.

By the end of July that phase of the plan will be successful and there est of the plan will be revealed without fear of backlash from those who otherwise would have had the power to pull eBay back from the brink.
Indeed, if you believe the current changes are obvious signals that small sellers are not wanted - be prepared - you have seen nothing yet.

So far what have they done? All they have managed to do is silence a seller’s ability to warn others about buyers (half of the purpose behind the original idea of feedback), burden you with higher and higher fees, dangle “treats” like discounts while setting the bar of eligibility so high that the rewards cannot be reached. and, by the way PayPal deals with “complaints” leave you vulnerable to fraud. What if worse was yet to come?

They know if you do not feel safe that you will not use eBay. The changes that have been enacted only eliminates the small sellers. Meanwhile they want to eradicate the mid-sized seller too. And they want to ensure that both do not return.

For the mid-sized seller the DSR became the tool of choice. The powers that be raised the level of what is a good seller artificially high. No manipulation is required; they know exactly the effect of the policy. This is why buyers are told that 4 is a good score and sellers are told that 4.9 yields discounts and higher listing placements. As long as that fractured point of view exists, eBay does not need to interfere with the DSR as has been suggested, the buyers will be killing the sellers naturally.

By August there will be no pretense and the intentions of the new and improved eBay will be clear. The following is only a partial list of the rules that will be imposed. It comes from a memo that circulated within my corner of the managerial department the week before Chicago. I cannot be too specific about certain items and I cannot reveal details of the latest additions without endangering my anonymity.

1. Neutrals will be converted to negatives complete with red icons and reduced feedback scores. Afterward neutrals will not be offered as a choice of feedback.

2. The entire process of feedback will be automated. Buyers and sellers will chose standard feedback from a list. For sellers this operation will be performed automatically upon the buyer winning. For buyers there will be an extra free line with which to add a few comments about the seller without restriction to content. Replies will not be allowed.

3. The implementation of a stricter rules regarding shipping. From the boxes, packing, labels and tapes to where you can buy postage. Orders have been placed for prototypes of “eBay” boxes. UPS and FedEx will be instructed not to accept “eBay” merchandise if it’s not inside “eBay” boxing. They will know, of course, because when sellers buy the “eBay” postage from the “eBay” source, a detailed list of contents with item numbers will be available to the shippers upon scanning a bar code. As for those who continue to use USPS, another level of quality control will be implemented - buyers will be asked, upon confirmation of delivery, if the seller used “eBay” standard shipping items. Naturally, no verification of the buyer’s truthfulness will be attempted, and continued ‘infractions’ will result in suspension. eBay will have other ways to check if a seller is not using the “eBay” equipment - as they will be required to buy at cost the supplies immediately after items are listed. (This is such a large scale operation behind the scenes that I feel comfortable sharing as much of it as I know.)

4. Sales taxes will be included automatically; shipping cost and sales taxes will be used to determined FVF.

5. Item descriptions will be “standardized” with templates which include the posting of a new, universal return policy. Only yearly subscribers to the retail-outlet venue can opt out of these universal return policies but even they cannot alter the template structures being devised.

6. Strikes against buyers will be eliminated as the whole concept of a buyer and bidding will be altered. FVF will be calculated when payment is submitted.

7. Time to Close will be eliminated entirely. Best Match will be the non-alterable default. Best Match is a system that caters to the needs of shoppers not bidders.

8. Placement within Best Match will be determined by several factors, the most important of which will be the extra display features added onto the listing.

9. DSRs can be removed by retailers and powersellers who pay a certain yearly fee.

10. The end play itself which consists of four phases:
a) the main focus shifts to retail sellers whose fees are on a per listing basis
b) stores will be replaced by a classified section, fees will be based on yearly subscriptions and FVFs
c) occasional auctions will be conducted for unique items (celebrity auctions, items that have been featured on the news, etc.)
d) total elimination of auctions for regular sellers.

From the point of view of eBay’s agenda to change gears these alteration make sense. The powers that be want to turn eBay into a retail venue format. Therefore the “buyer” must be changed - bidding and commitments to buy are part of the past. In a retail venue, the item is either in your cart or not and you only commit to buy when you pay at checkout. The seller is also redefined in the way they will be required to do business. They will be forced to copy the methods of retail stores.

The goal is to become Amazon Lite. Unlike Amazon the merchandise will be stocked by the retailers in their warehouses, eBay will be just an electronic centralized venue for outlet sale - a “trusted” name with a wide customer base and popular name recognition.

That is the future and as I write this I know that it cannot be stopped. There are no investors with enough clout and will to challenge the CEO. Stock holders will simply walk away. eBay will not sink, however, it will be exactly in the position its rulers intend it to be at.

Sellers, my advice is simple. You are not wanted. Leave. If you stay, you will be crushed. Leave. Go away. You cannot win.

I am sorry because for too long I have been a complicit tool behind the scenes. I was part of those teams and think tanks that spearheaded many of the “innovations” you know very well and which will be used to destroy you. I know I will not be believed. I will be mocked and ridiculed by the tools and even those who are real, actual people will be hesitant to accept what I have to say. What has been done to this community, the plots and schemes hatched in meetings and across memos, is far, far worse to endure within my soul than any treatment I will receive at the hands of the tools by posting this. You do not know how much they hate you. It is my conscience that I want to clear going forward. Again I apologize. There should have been a better way for the powers that be to effect the change they wanted for eBay - instead they succumbed to cloak and dagger deception.

RIP eBay

[User 217221]

"The breadth of this plan could not have been thought up and strategized overnight"

And it wasn't. Donahoe was hired long before he became CEO, he comes from a strategic consulting environment that supports "radical change" as a key to business success, and I'm sure his "vision" was an integral part of the hiring process.

If there is one way you can describe what's happening on eBay since he arrived, it is "radical change".

I am convinced he has been working his plan and implementing it piecemeal long before he became CEO since many of the changes since 2006 dovetail nicely into his grand plan to make eBay another Amazon.

[Linus]

Try this site for your future auctions =
epier.com

[Watching the Wheels]

217221,

Without a doubt! The problem though is that they are implementing the changes within Ebay in a completely underhanded manner.

If you read through Amazon the writing style is forthright. They at least have the decency to say " This is how we do things."

It boils down to matters of trust. Ebay, in my oppinion is operating in the style of either a sociopath and or coward.

There are times when RADICAL is what is needed to get a job done. I have always been seen as being over the top in one form or another.

There is nothing that I am willing to accept as justification for the slimy way that Ebay seems determined to utilize in cleaning house.
I believe that they will ultimately reap what they sow and the other cowardly, sociopathic wonders of the world will seek out their own kind.

It'll really be beer and skittles then.

If you read the book ' The Prince' by Machiavelli, Ebay could potentially be setting themselves up for a complete fall from grace. They are attacking the site in ways that will not be forgiven.

I read up on Bain as part of my research into everything. I had been poised to begin selling on Ebay. I ultimately deemed them unworthy.

Ebay isn't changing in ways that it seemed that Bain advocates. Something has become very tarnished. I don't know what that is. My gut tells me that its there. So I wander in and out of all of this because somewhere, within all this chaos is an interesting snippet to learn.

[User 217221]

Watching the Wheels:

We are definitely on the same wave length when it comes to the underhanded way that eBay is managing change. The problem with many folks who still sell there is that eBay stands head and shoulders in generating the traffic it takes for a small seller to survive.

I don't think the small sellers like being shafted, but for many, like me, the alternative is to quit selling. If requested, I'll be glad to share the results of my 18 months experimentation with selling elsewhere.

As far as trust goes, I worked as a systems consultant for over 30 years implementing the "strategic concepts" proposed by consultants like Donahoe.

One observation I can make without qualification is that to get to the top in companies like Bain consultants have to have an enormous ego and an unwillingness to accept responsibility when something goes wrong.

I was all too often on the receiving end of "Your team screwed it up" when their basic concept was seriously flawed and they ignored the advice from implementation experts on my team for making the concept viable.

One thing many were vehemently opposed to was informing the workers and customers about the true impact of the changes they proposed. Many were also arrogant enough to say that they couldn't understand and all that would result was "noise". Sound familiar?

I firmly believe that eBay's direction is "too little too late" regarding their ability to compete with the likes of Amazon and their implementation is seriously hampered by marketplace distrust, faulty design, bug-laden software and sellers, large and small, who have grown weary with the constant chaos.

----------------------...

A few thoughts about "radical change":

In my schooling as a Systems Analyst, I took a course called "General Systems Theory".

The basic principles are simple:
1. A system will always tend to stabilize itself.
2. If changed, a system will always attempt to adjust.
3. If changed too often and/or too drastically, a system will thrash trying to adjust.
4. The more complex the system, the more severe the thrashing.
5. If the system cannot stabilize it will thrash until it destroys itself.

Summation:
Radical change of complex systems is likely to cause severe enough thrashing for the system to self-destruct.

eBay is certainly a complex system and I believe they are on a path to self-destruction.

[Paypal's in trouble]

Need your comments at the wall street journal:
blogs.wsj.com/biztech/...

[tailhook]

Mylene Mangalindan
Internet Technology/Enterprise Software reporter

4157656114
cell 4159875360
this reporter has a blog on wall street journal abou ebay now - tell her how you feel

[Watching the Wheels]

217221,

I detected a few differences in us. For starters I am not team player. I would rather rise or sink on my own.

I am unwilling to accept a correction unless the correcter can show me a better. I have found that when job security can't be held over your head, "superiors" are not exactly sure what they should do next.

The best that I am willing to grant another human being is equal. Everyone has talents and skills lacking in the next person.

I have done management within corporate restaurants. I have put my neck on the chopping block more times than I can remember on principal. I still have my neck.

It was only a few years ago that I truly realized how incredibly strong I am. I believe that when a person is willing to openly accept the consequences of their own actions and when a person is truly willing to go down in flames over principalpal, most of the opposition will back down. THEY DON"T KNOW WHAT TO DO.

I am strapped for money right now. Something will work out.

I will not sell out my principals I also have enough confidence in my abilities that Ebay would be reletively safe. But as I said in an earlier post, they are not worthy.

And quite honestly I don't understand why any of the sellers are willing to put their merchandise, time and money on the line with a company that has no viable customer service. As I said, there are principals involved.

Ebay reminds me of an abusive relationship. The cops get called and then the victom says nevermind.

[dinah balk]

Dinah's response to Watching the Wheels -

Couldn't have said it better! The Aussies successfully blocked Paypal because they stood up in one united voice and said NO!

Similarly, unless all sellers worldwide unite and say NO to the new selling form, then the morning after it goes into effect sellers will wake up and discover they're working for Donahoe.

Dinah

[artman]

I was a former seller on eBay or Greedbay as it has become known. I quit and started selling on two other sites and I made more in the following 12 months than in the previous 12 on eBay. There is a myth perpetuated that it is the only place to sell. NOT TRUE. You may need to adapt, but reading the forums on new venues will be to your advantage. Ebay is declining as more and more leave with those remaining squabbling for a share in the fewer buyers that now wander past.

Ebay has failed to realise that all the smaller sellers that it despises were the people doing most of the buying, so they are now buying at their new venues, if you want to sell to them you need to be somewhere other than eBay. I look everywhere else now and no longer buy from eBay.

One of the alternatives that is showing some serious growth and probably more closely resembles the 'old ebay' is ebid.net the forums have countless posts from former ebay sellers who are making this their new venue. I also sell on a smaller site Tazbar.com which I also recommend looking at.

[Angie]

"Using IP address to manipulate search, when we are talking about millions of listings per day seems really implausible."

Not in the slightest, there has long been an option on the search facility to view items within 200 miles of your location, this would simply make that search a default for the small ads which are placed all over eBay pages now.

There may as well be a disclaimer by eBay on every item page saying "you may be able to get this item cheaper elsewhere" because that's the truth as it now stands.

With the ridiculously high fees at eBay I wonder that anyone can make a living, especially when the changes (of one kind or another) are constant on the eBay sites. How can anyone have a business model which can "adapt" on a month to month basis ... only the dropshippers could even contemplate this, if you must buy in stock etc you can't possibly allow for the insane "tweaks" and ever-changing goalposts imposed.

It's like watching a disaster unfold in slow motion and if eBay's investors have seen the YouTube eBay Live 2008 videos they'l be dumping the stock like it has suddenly become radioactive.

[Watching the Wheels]

I believe that one of the reasons that selllers cling to Ebay like grim death is because these "business owners" are not willing to do the necessary thing s needed to truly develope a business.

To my understanding a venue is similar to renting or leasing space. In the real world of brick and morter businesses it is the business owner's responsibility to advertise and market and promote. The landlord is NOT responsible for these functions.

Only one in five businesses pan out and become successful. Are all the sellers doing everything that needs to be done in order to insure their own success? I doubt it.

And why, as business owners, are you allowing what essentially amounts to an employee ( CEOs are employed by owners ) to dictate terms?

On a similar note, why doesn't Ebay shift their model and offer out slots on a franchise basis? They would be able to dictate terms, collect a nice sum of money for a franchise position and have better controls over what the sellers do.

It could be a win win for everybody.

[justpurrfect]

At least I now begin to understand what ebay are trying to do. Their management style has, until now, felt to me like someone re-arranging the furniture on the Titanic. I'm another who has mostly left for pastures new and it is a myth that nothings sells anywhere else. In my experience, most things are BIN on other sites but things definitely sell.

[dinah balk]

Dinah's response to justpurrfect -

Yes, Donahoe has been rearranging the furniture on the SS eBay and if I recall correctly, this isn't the first time he's done this.

Dinah

[1machoduck]

Just a note from a former power seller (duckdistributing). We gave up on ebay back in the summer of '07 even left paypal at one time in protest and only sold items on money order business. Finally just threw in towel, tried to buy and sell a little over the last year still fouled up...
had better luck with craigslist locally.

[Tony P.]

The idea that registering a user's IP Address so as to present a particular "view" of ebay, is valid, but it is only part of the reason. Using the IP address as a means of verifying a user's identity, is also part of the reason.

i.e. confirming a seller that is listing some items is indeed that seller and not someone that has hyjacked the user's ID and password.

The part about IP addresses being used as a way of "tracking and identifying" a particular user is useful when the user isn't logged-in to the ebay system. If the user is logged-in, a Cookie will identify the user and their past history with ebay will indicate whether they are to be treated as a Seller or Buyer.

This is NOT about some great conspiracy scheme whereby ebay will show Your (seller) items when You search for them, but keep them hidden when others search for them. NO, it is not that nefarious, but it does have a sinister aspect to it.

The New Item Page hasn't been finialized yet. Many versions have been seen. One version showed Other Seller's Items on the actual listing page; needless to say, no seller liked that or wants it.

With IP-logging, ebay can show one version of the page to that particular seller, and show a different version to everyone else. I'm not saying that is the INTENT of ebay in this... just saying that it is possible.

They currently show many different versions of all pages, depending upon whether you are viewed as primarily a seller or a buyer. It is all fairly well automated, so it isn't like it takes a lot of resources to accomplish anything along these lines.

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I do agree with Wheels. I understand all of the reasons that folks can't just quit selling, even for a month or so, but there comes a time when you have to make a stand.

In 2005, when PSU was born out of a boycott, ebay rescinded on a fee hike and acted a bit humble. Since that time, ebay has rode roughshod over its customers by not delivering the services purchased, and/or delivering inferior services.

How much crap are you willing to accept before you say, ENOUGH!

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[User 217221]

"Similarly, unless all sellers worldwide unite and say NO to the new selling form, then the morning after it goes into effect sellers will wake up and discover they're working for Donahoe."

Hello Dinah.

I submit that all sellers have been working for eBay since eBay first changed their position from "just a venue" some years ago.

I agree that sellers bemoaning their fate and wishing for the "good old days" is counterproductive and that eBay today is an extremely hostile and labor-intensive environment for sellers, particularly small sellers.

What I'm a bit concerned about is the unqualified "leave now" exhortations I see on this board.

While that is a wise alternative to challenging eBay's decisions, each seller has to consider their own unique situation and the fact that it takes time to establish themselves on a new venue.

So, in the spirit of helping sellers that may feel overwhelmed instead of criticizing them, here are my recommendations based on my move to new venues I started over 18 months ago:

1. By all means start to move now, but be cautious about the financial impact of your decision to move particularly if your livelihood depends on your sales.

While time is clearly not on your side, the handwriting on the eBay wall clearly says it is going to get much worse before it gets better and cost significantly more to sell there.

2. Be cautious about the cost, knowledge and effort required to build your own web site particularly when there are venues that will provide that ability for nothing or a small annual fee.

3. In your search for a venue, carefully consider how what you sell is represented on their site. All products do not sell well on all sites.

A good place to start is their category structure. For example, my category is included in "Everything Else" on Amazon, hardly conducive to effective marketing.

4. If you can sell on Amazon, do it. They are clearly the major viable competitor to eBay, the one eBay is trying to emulate, and, as posted earlier, they are completely up front regarding their terms and policies.

5. I consider <A HREF="www.ioffer.com/";>iOffer</A>, <A HREF="www.ecrater.com/";>eCrater</A> and <A HREF="us.ebid.net/";>eBid</A> as venues that have the potential to also effectively compete with eBay.

Although their combined 6.8 million listings are now about 47% of eBay's 14.5 million, they are growing rapidly and they appear to be the choice of many sellers on forums like this one. If sellers who leave eBay all go to any one of these three venues and bring their customers with them, it will soon bring the 800 pound gorilla to it's knees.

6. Don't underestimate the learning curve for things like how to set up your store, use their selling form and listing/payment/shippi... policies. Above all, don't expect instant results. It took almost 6 months for my sites to begin generating a reasonable volume of sales.

7. Once you have a new site, consider selling selected items on eBay as a way of promoting your new site. Include marketing literature in your shipping package that tells them how to find you. It can be very effective in bringing your customers with you, even if you only break-even on your eBay sales.

So, for those who decide to move, do it deliberately based on a solid understanding of what you are doing and best wishes for success in your efforts.