Stifel analyst Kit Spring issued a note Tuesday in which he highlighted the arbitrage spread between Sirius (SIRI) and XM (XMSR) as being “abnormally high”. The arbitrage spread is represented by the delta between the price of Sirius and XM in relation to the 4.6 shares of Sirius that will be received for each share of XM upon a merger approval. With Sirius closing at $2.00 Tuesday, the implied price for XM is $9.20. XM closed at $7.57. Thus, if the merger were approved Tuesday, a share of XM would bring a premium of $1.63 over current prices. For this reason Spring has a BUY on XMSR.

The Stifel note also issued some highlights on the sector. Among the highlights are:

  • lowering 2009 subscriber estimates by 3% and 2013 by 5%
  • lowering OEM expectations despite deeper penetration
  • Retail off, but not as bad as expected
  • BUY on SIRI with a $3.50 Price Target (down from $4.00)
  • BUY on XMSR with a $16 Price Target

SIRI - 2Q

  • Gross OEM additions of 696k, down from 707k
  • Net OEM additions of 234k, down from 401k
  • Gross retail additions of 254k, up from 237k
  • Net retail additions of 8k, up from (6k)
  • Ending subscribers of 8.88MM, down from 9.04MM
  • Revenue of $284.8MM down from $287.3MM
  • EBITDA of ($43MM) and Adjusted EBITDA (EBITDA before non cash comp) of ($21MM) versus ($41MM) and($18MM) respectively
  • Loss of $0.06 per share, unchanged.

XMSR - 2Q

  • Gross OEM additions of 762k, down from 958k
  • Net OEM additions of 266k, down from 477k
  • Gross retail additions of 210k, down from 226k
  • Net retail additions of (38k), down from (21k)
  • Ending subscribers of 9.56MM, down from 9.79MM
  • Revenue of $322MM versus $326MM
  • EBITDA of ($45MM) and Adjusted EBITDA (EBITDA before non cash comp) of ($31MM) versus ($60MM) and($45MM) respectively
  • Loss of $0.40 per share, up from a loss of $0.45

Spring has made some sensible adjustments to his model, and seems to be cautious in his approach, using conservative assumptions and data points. With a lack of any real guidance from the companies, and uncertainty in the merger concession outcome, a conservative and cautious approach is likely warranted.

Tyler Savery Position - Long Sirius, Long XM

Tyler Savery

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This article has 88 comments:

  •  
    Jul 09 07:33 AM
    Maybe we should ask the chinese whats going on at the FCC, I'm sure they have access to their computers.
  •  
    Jul 09 08:05 AM
    i think mel needs to start making some noise
  •  
    Jul 09 08:33 AM
    Ace22, I told you it is to close to a decision. Mel is not going to stir the pot and take a chance at pissing the FCC off. Now if there was nothing going on and he did not see it coming soon then he would have said something like he did with the DOJ and if you notice that was still put in a kind way.
  •  
    Jul 09 09:38 AM
    Even the sell-side analysts are lowering their revenue and subscriber growth expectations. They are catching up with The Vicar, oui?

    News flash: Stations in Boston are rolling out "tagging" on HD radio. This lets listeners "tag" songs they hear on the free digital signal, which they can purchase for download later on I-tunes.

    What does this say about satrad's competitive advantage?
  •  
    Jul 09 09:50 AM
    VicDave, it is a big down turn in the economy analyst are down grading almost every secto..... no no I cant, I said to myself I would not respond to morons anymore. Wheooo that was close.
  •  
    Jul 09 10:08 AM
    163888......Pinch yourself, don't give in to the urge....By the way just read the Orbitcast article that FCC staffers told XM and Sirius folks to cancel their vacation plans for mid to late July. Last Thursday, Sirius' Lawyers met with McDowell, and Monday Mel met with Tate before leaving for a while. I think there are a few more stringent concessions or details to be hammered out and then the merger goes through by end of the month. Just bought 900 shares of XM for the arb. premium @ 7.29 and another 500 of Sirius at 1.93 just because I could. Hang tough and ignore the taunts of the moron(s). Wonder what he does with his life or is this it. No, No, I don't really want to know.
  •  
    Jul 09 10:18 AM
    You dismiss The Vicar at your own risk. Here is Clear Channel's answer to XM and Sirius: erockster.com.

    Internet Radio - with a social networking component. Now on your desktop, but coming soon to a vehicle near you. Free.
  •  
    Jul 09 10:20 AM
    If you knew, you would not be so dismissive of my comments.
  •  
    Jul 09 10:20 AM
    Guys...... I have to apologize for getting off track here. I heard something that made me want to puke. Obama and McCain were addressing a large group of latinos in Georgia. Obama said that it's obvious to all, that illegals would learn English {yea right}, but more importantly, Americans "MUST" {not should,..... not may,} but "MUST learn to speak "SPANISH". How do you like your "CHANGE" now!?.............
  •  
    Jul 09 10:22 AM
    The Vicar agrees. Those who live elsewhere in the developed world are multilingual. Europeans are a prime example. if we're living in a global economy, a multi-lingual population is essential.
  •  
    Jul 09 10:22 AM
    cos1000, I saw that also. What I find even more interesting is the meetings. As you know I have said look at the history of what happen before Martin gave his approval.
  •  
    Jul 09 10:33 AM
    Killerkaul you ever try to get a licence in France, if you cant speak French good luck and good bye. That is why they all muit-lingual because if you go to that country and cant speak their language you are SOL. This is the only country that gos way to far, out of its way to accommodate foreigners. So yes I find what Obama said as offensive as I did when I heard government (hospital) people were getting fired in Florida because they did not speak spanish.
  •  
    Jul 09 11:59 AM
    163888 UR RIGHT ABOUT MEL MAKING NOISE WITH THE DECISION SO CLOSE ITS PROBABLY A GOOD IDEA TO STAY QUIET
  •  
    Jul 09 12:17 PM
    Ace22, Motley Fool had an article out, a while back about, not making to much noise as you are trying to tip toe across the boarder. I thought that to be one of the funnest things, I have read. When it came to explanning why Mel doesn't want to make to much noise about the merger. It had more to do with how great it was going to be after, but I still think it works here to.
  •  
    Jul 09 02:40 PM
    With this merger, I feel like a kid waiting for Christmas. And that Christmas just keeps getting pushed back another month. And when I finally get to have Christmas it's going to royally suck.
  •  
    Jul 09 04:18 PM
    bradley - Yes that is what it is like and what I believe will happen to. My prediction is a small bounce on the price of the stock when the announcement is made that the merger is approved. Then it gradually goes up with alot of bumps in the road. There will be lawsuits that drive the price of the stock down, there will be upgrades and downgrades based on everything from car sales to combined synergies and new contract agreements with other companies, there will be people that just sell because of battle fatigue over all of this. This will keep the price more steady, with a slight increase over time. I just can't predict the exact price the stock will see, but I don't have very high hopes. Sorry, Christmas has pretty much come and gone in my opinion, I hope I am wrong.
  •  
    Jul 09 04:31 PM
    Tyler, did you not think that perhaps the “arbitrage spread” might be more of an indicator of the diminished likeliness of a merger as opposed to a “buying opportunity” for XMSR? Given the delays in approval thus far, I can assure you that’s how savvy arb traders would interpret it. The premise of his recommendation assumes the merger will go through and that is far from certain. The Stifel analyst is clearly a moron to not realize that arb spreads occur for a good reason.


    The Devil’s advocate might counter that if the market has a bleak view of the merger being approved why did SIRI not fall as well? Answer: it is much harder to short a $2 stock. In many cases, it’s near impossible because it’s difficult to find firms that are willing to lend it when they break below $5.


    Finally, even if the merger goes through and even if someone buys XMSR and gains the arb spread from the deal, the fact is that market risk remains very high and is likely to take both stocks down, wiping out any gains from this alleged arb spread. Market risk is key here. For an analyst to miss these points is highly irresponsible. But of course, analysts aren’t concerned with prudence since they cannot be sued. Those who have listened to analysts over the past several years have not fared well in either stock. And this is just another example of the danger in listening to these guys.


    “Spring has made some sensible adjustments to his model, and seems to be cautious in his approach, using conservative assumptions and data points.” If he were being cautious he would not have a “Buy” on XMSR based upon on arb spread that indicates the merger is not particularly likely.

    And some of you are too naïve to think that money can be so easily made. “Yea, the spread is huge and an analyst says it’s a great buy so I’ll buy it!”

    Simply shocking.
  •  
    Jul 09 05:05 PM
    moderator.....

    The opinion on the arbitrage spreads was the analysts, not mine. My own opinion does remain that the merger will gain approval, but that is not material to the article here, as I was not writing about my own opinion on the odds of the merger happening.

    Your assertions about shorting Sirius as a difficult task seem at odds with what is happening with the stock. Sirius has been on and off the REGSHO list many times in the past couple of months.

    The quote about Spring's being more conservative and cautious stems from his taking down several estimates on metrics and adjusting his models to reflect a more conservative stance. I feel that this is prudent, especially with all of the uncertainties that are out there.

    If someone gains 25% from the arb spread and sells on merger approval, then there is no way that they lose their profits. A 25% return is a decent return, especially considering you can accomplish it without a huge cash outlay. I am not recommending this trade, but it is something people will do.

    SDARS is a speculative investment, plain and simple. I think that most will echo that sentiment.

  •  
    Jul 09 05:29 PM
    I love how foolish some can be down playing the enormus possibilities of SatRad. If it were to be such a failure and not a threat to anyone then why do so many spend so much to prevent it from prevailing. Yes we all can complain about the length of the process but it truely is a work off art going through all these obstacles to achieve all the powers that be. As a sirius investors for many years, I have been up and I have been down but the potential is so tremendous that I appreciate all the attention it has drawn. Giving life to an entirely new way of music distrubution is a brillant idea and will fare well for all including investors. Funny how we expect things on a road never traveled although there have been similar roads there have never been none quite like this. The FCC is in a process and the process is coming to an end and we will bring competition to a new level. We will take the listening experience to a whole nother level...
  •  
    Jul 09 05:46 PM
    Anyone that is investing in these companies because they are "a kid waiting for Christmas" should sell their stock and invest in some other company or sector.

    The merger is long over due. The delay is hurting these companies because they cannot execute there business plans, stand alone or merged. The NAB has invested 2.3 million in lobbying activity from the first of the year, mostly to battle against the merger but not all. They have other agendas. Each company has invested about 200K to lobby for the merge in 2008. So far money talks at the FCC.

    It is easy to take these companies down at this time but, there is a huge postential for growth in revenue in their existing business plan with excellent cost synergies as outlined after the merger, period. There are unlimitted possibilities for the merged entity with a variety of platforms for new revenue. It has all been discussed and some ideas not so much.

    They are already in automobiles, OEM's like the product, consumers love the product, and interoperability will make the OEM platform better. They are already on the internet with Internet Radio. Recent patents filed by XM will make their portable players / software for internet radio compatable with a variety of partners on varying platforms going forward. This will be new revenue.

    Consolidation of SAT RAD will make product development more consumer friendly opening up a whole new line of retail products available at new low rate subscription pricing. Once new customers get a taste the rest is revenue growth. The used car market hasn't even been tapped yet or forcast in anyone's numbers. Look at take rates of 50% with the other 50% becoming a second chance market with more atrractive margins given chipset investment was already accounted for. SAC for these folks goes way down.

    HD radio is looking for an entry point. It's going to be OPEN ACCESS manufacturing or HD RADIO chipsets that HD is going to have to subsidize, NOT BOTH. Minority leased programming, again new revenue and who cares as long as it isn't more than 10% of Spectrum. It take more than a year and by then it will be irrelevent. Internet Radio competition without satellites or land lines everywhere, is not viable at least for the next 3-5 years. Again, these companies already have internet radio capability and the already have the Satellite Network to deliver it if they so choose.

    So everyone who is waiting for the merger like it was Christmas, should put their money somewhere else. Please sell all your shares tomorrow so the price of the stocks can go down a bit for me to buy some more. Thank you.
  •  
    Jul 09 06:03 PM
    Tyler, I think it is obvious to anyone who read my comment that I in no way linked the arb play to you. What I did not do was mention that you too failed to recognize what this analyst missed. You believe that it will go through because you hope that it will. You have money on it. But the arb spread says otherwise.

    As for my statements regarding the difficulty in shorting a $2 stock, this comes from my experience as a trader on Wall Street. I never said it could not be shorted. I said it is much more difficult to find shares. I know this from personal experience.

    As far as the analyst, I could care less about the adjustments to his models. The simple fact is that he has a buy on XMSR based on this arb spread. That is the key point.

    "If someone gains 25% from the arb spread and sells on merger approval, then there is no way that they lose their profits. A 25% return is a decent return, especially considering you can accomplish it without a huge cash outlay." ----- Let me spell it all out so that you understand. If you buy XMSR hoping to gain 25% from the spread, how can you be sure that both won't go down prior to a merger approval due to a continued sell off in the market? As well, remember that you have to hold the stock until the deal closes, which is usually long after approval.

    Tyler, I think you really should reconsider whether you should continue posting on Seeking Alpha or anywhere else for that matter. You certainly have no idea what you are talking about and you have never managed money profesionally. Maybe you should focus more on reading rather than writing. It seems to me that you're only purpose here is to highlight any positive news you can find without critically assessing all of the facts and presenting an unbiased view. You may be popular to these SIRI/XM speculators, but based upon reading many posts from this and your previous articles, I would not consider them wise investors to say the least. But this is the company you keep. I suppose they are your peers. Good luck.
  •  
    Jul 09 06:15 PM
    The simple fact is that the longer the deal is delayed, the wider the arb spread must be in order to take into account the additional risk of XMSR failing. That's all there is to the arb spread. It is not a matter of whether anyone does or does not believe the deal will or will not be approved.
  •  
    Jul 09 06:27 PM
    However, the narrowing of the arb spread over the past 2 days, from a low point for XMSR of $6.80 to a high of $7.80 on higher than normal volume, especially in a very down market today, is a strong indication that people think the deal is going through very shortly.
  •  
    Jul 09 07:25 PM
    moderator, You say it is wishful thinking the merger will go through, I only have to say a few things about that. First is when in the total history of the FCC have they totally went against the DOJs decision. That would be never. Second how many times has Martin voted for something of any real importance and the other two republican commissioners gone against him. Once again that would be never. Third when has Tate ever sided with the two democrats against the two republicans. Surprise, the answer is once again never. It is one thing for Tate to be getting letters/visits from a bunch of republicans and totally another to be getting them from a bunch of democrats. Now we know she is very consevative, and I think I can speak for conservatives on this; She would be telling them thank you for your interest in this matter, I will consider it very carefully. Then would be thinking you can kiss my a$$, and by the way get the F out of my office. Believe me as much as Brownback gave to the letter Kerry took from it, as far as her taking it seriously. It is not wishful thinking, that people have that this merger will go through it is common sense. I would say it is pure disbelief in reality, for people to think it would not. While that disbelief may be wide spread. It does not change the facts of what has happen so far and all of the facts show that the merger will be approved. I for one think for you not to see the facts that the merger is going to happen, shows you do be the imbecile that should not be posting here anymore. As for the arb spread being so far apart, that is easy there are alot of other imbeciles that ether have listened to you, or think as narrow as you.

  •  
    Jul 09 07:47 PM
    Moderator......I don't really have much of a problem with your Devil's Advocate scenario but, it is just your opinion that asks the question "why did SIRI not fall as well? Answer: it is much harder to short a $2 stock. In many cases, it’s near impossible because it’s difficult to find firms that are willing to lend it when they break below $5." One could also say that is not only difficult but near impossible to find a company to lend shares of Sirius under $2.00, but it's just a bad investment idea to short this stock, at these levels. Given near term company events that could possibly wipe out your position promptly with a merger approval, you might consider shorting this stock foolish. So Sirius has established a pre merger resistance point for at 1.85 - 190. Why is it so ridiculous for Kit Spring to point out that if the merger goes through that XM at $6.80 (interim low, not close) yesterday is an "overdone" short scenario with a potential arb play worth $2.40 mid day and with Sirius at $2.00 at close and XM at $7.29 at close yielding a $1.91 or a 26% yield that day with the merger. If your such a trader, then you know, that their really is little market risk that either of these companies are going much lower, and today again yielded their overdone nature out. So what's your beef on this short term trade. The merger not goin through? That's very possible, but this is a trade not an Investment, with risks being high and the potential reward also high.

    As for your rebuke of Tyler, I feel it is unfair and poorly contrived. Tyler has never claimed to manage anyone else's money or to be a financial adviser. He has been a dedicated investigator and reporter of the SAT RAD sector at a time when information about the companies, the merger, the competition to the merger, the minority interests, the OEM performance for the stand alone companies has been otherwise absent. I also believe he has brought out insights to the process that would have otherwise been ignored. So if you are upset with analysts, I can understand. But to shoot the messenger is naive and shows poor understanding of Tyler's role.
  •  
    Jul 09 10:14 PM
    Cos1000--It was a simple analogy and a mild attempt at humorous exasperation. No need to write a 3-page response. Anyone who takes it seriously (like you) needs to invest in the sense of humor industry.
  •  
    Jul 09 10:36 PM
    Bradley,well said ,short and sweet.GOOD ONE LOL....
  •  
    Jul 09 10:55 PM
    Bradley.....ahhh Humorous Exasperation...I get it. Now that's a good oxymoron. Aren't you the same "Clown", just practicing my humor lessons, that thinks $5.00 per gallon oil is the "best thing that could happen to us as a country". Tell that to the guy driving his "beater" to work to put food on the table, with no viable alternative fuel source to get him there otherwise. Yeah he / she and thousands like them will just have to wait while market pressures, the Democrats, and our government agencies figure out an alternative fuel vehicle for them. The "funny" thing is, they will never be able to afford to buy one. Yeah that's a good one. Let's not drill to bring the cost a fuel down. Maybe they can just wait for Christmas to never come, too. Because when it does, it will really suck, all they'll get is a bicycle for them to peddle to work.
  •  
    Jul 09 11:09 PM
    It is the firms themselves who are shorting SIRI. Wake-up people. Goldman is shorting SIRI.
  •  
    Jul 09 11:20 PM
    WAKE UP people, we must vote all the elected officals out. We must do it in every election until they represent us, the people who voted them in. If they see and know they will not get re-elected unless the represent we the people they will do what is right or we get someone who will. WAKE UP, quit being stupid sheep and cattle.
  •  
    Jul 09 11:22 PM

    WAKE UP people, we must vote all the elected officals out. We must do it in every election until they represent us, the people who voted them in. If they see and know they will not get re-elected unless the represent we the people they will do what is right or we get someone who will. WAKE UP, quit being stupid sheep and cattle. VOTE< VOTE THEM ALL OUT.
  •  
    Jul 09 11:27 PM
    Goldman hides their trades via the Nasdaq and the Cincinnati. They are cowards. They are the one's who are taking down this market.
  •  
    Jul 10 12:41 AM
    moderator....

    Part of the arb play, and a popular trade is to go long XM and short SIRI:

    1. Assume you short $1,000 worth of SIRI (500 shares, SIRI @ $2.00).

    2. You take the $1,000 from the short sale and buy long on XM (129 shares) (XM @ $7.79).

    3. Upon merger closure, your 129 shares will become 594 shares of XM.

    4. You owe 500 shares of SIRI on your short, which you can pay off. This leaves you with 94 shares relatively free and clear..

    5. If as you say the stocks both go down, you will still have locked in 94 shares on the arb play. Your investment capital into XM came from your short sale on SIRI. Regardless of moves in the stocks, you walk away with shares with virtually no capital outlay.

    This example is oversimplified but details an arb play that is often used in stock transaction mergers. I am not recommending it, but clearly people are well aware of this type of trade.

    Much of what I present isthe view of sector analysts without my opinion interjected. If I do interject my opinion is is quite clear.

    I have no "need" to be positive for the money. I have stated many times that I sold most of my SDARS stock prior to writing about the sector. Do I still hold stock? Yes. Will it change my lifestyle if it goes up or down? No. I am much more invested in other areas. Do I want the merger to go through? Yes.

    If you think I only present the positive then you have not been following what I have been writing. I covered the slumping OEM channel, the Goldman downgrades, and other reports that have been sour on satellite. I have written that I feel that people expecting a short squeeze may well be disappointed.

    An investment in SDARS has risk. People who typically invest in it understand this.

    Lastly, most analysts, as well as sector followers in in the camp that the merger will indeed pass. There were some who felt that the merger would never pass DOJ muster. They were quite wrong. Now, even most of those naysayers have a belief that ultimately the merger will pass. If you want to say that I am "missing" by feeling that the merger will pass, that is fine. Time will bear out whether or not I missed.
  •  
    Jul 10 12:52 AM
    cos1000,163888,and Tyler........ after studying these long posts carefully.... I would like to thank you for your insight and clearity, on this complicated issue. The finish is in sight. Run Blue Dog Run!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...
  •  
    Jul 10 02:00 AM
    Cos1000, can you elaborate a little on that Orbitcast article you were talking about? Also, can any of you who are more informed than me comment on XM/SIRI being on the Iphone via those downloadable programs than can be purchased separately by the subscriber? If this is true then this is HUGE NEWS and I am surprised that some of you experts here haven't touched on it...unless it's a hoax. I mean...Jesus the untapped revenue is ENORMOUS.

    Thanks guys, looking forward to an answer.
  •  
    Jul 10 04:06 AM
    Tyler, the fact that you even try to challenge what an experienced Wall Street trader has stated tells me that will try to explain away everything. The fact that your explanation is flawed confirms once again that you have no idea what you are talking about. Just accept the fact that you are wrong.

    The example of the “arb play” that you list is NOT often used. How you can make such generalizations confirms you think you know more than you do. There is no typical arb play. Each one depends on the given conditions and probabilities of the various events. Anyone who says there is a typical arb play isn’t an arb trader. Between the two of us, I’d say I know much more about arbitrage than you. Where did you get your knowledge of arb strategies?? From online posts?

    Once again, it’s very difficult for individual investors to find firms that will let you short $2 stocks. I would doubt you can get them from online brokers like E-Trade and Schwab. And if you can they sure won’t have much to hand out. Usually only the Wall Street brokers have them but you’ll find it very difficult to do even an unsolicited trade due to compliance. These are facts. Accept them.

    So based on your extremely risky arb example, I guess you realize you are providing justification for shorting SIRI. I wonder how all of your SIRI cheerleaders will like that.

    You assume that a short SIRI position will hedge a drop of both stocks. I will guarantee you that it will not. Both stocks will not drop the same amount. I will guarantee you that the strategy you list will end up losing money if both stocks go down. That is like thinking you will be completely protected from all downside if you buy puts. These strategies only provide partial protection. As a matter of fact, XM could drop and SIRI could rise to narrow the spread. Get your head on straight.

    The arb example you list is extremely risky because you are doubling down in terms of the amount of leverage you are using. How you can even use this example and apply it to SIRI/XM for the people that read these posts is highly irresponsible.

    Even a simple short is very risky. Unless you are a professional trader you should not be shorting..ever. It is obvious to me you have no real experience in arbitrage.

    Don’t try to turn this around and make this an issue of whether the merger will pass. That is not the issue. I find your reliance on the merger as some sort of savior to be a bit funny. Even if the merger passes, these companies are going nowhere.

    And I have read your previous posts. They are overwhelmingly biased and do not paint the full picture. You rarely make any discussion of risk and when you do, all you say is there is risk. Tyler, stick to your day job (whatever that might be) and I’ll sick to mine on Wall Street. I don’t write articles about surgery or engineering because I have not been trained for these careers. If I were to start writing about how I would perform brain surgery I’d be seen as a quack. Likewise, anyone who writes about investments without having been formally trained and having professional experience is a quack.
  •  
    Jul 10 08:00 AM
    gekko13, While it is nice, that there would be another way for a subscriber to get SIRI progamming. It is not like they are going to merge with each other. As you will recall I think it was blackberry that came out, that they were going to do basically the same thing with XM. Plus there are other cell carriers that have simular deals with both. Please dont get me wrong here I and most others here think it is nice it is not the merger news that everyone is waiting for.


    That news as taken so long, as you can see some people now think that, normal sure signs of a merger approval is wishful thinking. In any real world the DOJ approval with, zero, zipp, notta, conditions would be enough to make most believe the merger is a sure thing. As you can see, though there are still some that still think that even with the Head of the FCC putting his weight behind it, along with the DOJ, it is still not enough to get them to believe it will happen. I dont know what it is that makes them think this way. Maybe they think the NAB is that strong, I feel if it were, they would have been able to sway Martin. Believe me these people talk to each other and at the very least the other two commissioners are aware of the NAB bull.

    As for the moderator, I have been able to make a nice enough profit to retire off of a industry that many like him believed had no up side. So please forgive me if I flush his crap down the water closet where it belongs. Wishful thinking indeed, and I am suppose to listen to him as a proffessional.
  •  
    Jul 10 08:35 AM
    gekko13... Here is the link for the Orbicast article. Above I referenced that they told Sirius staffers also that was incorrect, only XM staffers were notified.

    www.orbitcast.com/arch...
  •  
    Jul 10 08:44 AM
    In my "3 page" rant about "Waiting for Christmas" above, I referenced several patents applied for this year by XM. Here the link to the article that describes the patents for "Skybuds" and more recently "Skycube". The patents raise more questions to the possibilities for the future for the merged company.

    www.orbitcast.com/arch...
  •  
    Jul 10 09:15 AM
    163888.... As you so appropriately remind us the DOJ has already ruled on the merger and I quote from their statement: “After a careful and thorough review of the proposed transaction, the Division concluded that the evidence does not demonstrate that the proposed merger of XM and Sirius is likely to substantially lessen competition, and that the transaction therefore is not likely to harm consumers.” With Martin supporting the merger with the concessions already outlined by the companies, its now just a matter of the other two Republicans justifying their own due diligence. I wouldn't be surprised to see Adelstein vote with the merger after concessions have been agreed to. I think Tate's recent meeting with Ibiquity has her asking the right questions about costs associated with inclusion and what Ibiquity sees as the impact of the FCC ruling in their favor. I believe she is getting to the FCC authority problem in imposing one companies will onto another.
  •  
    Jul 10 10:14 AM
    cos1000, The facts are the facts. Is the approval 100% well as I have said before nothing is 100%. But to say it is wishful thinking, is to say the least delusional. It does confirm what I believe will happen as far as a spike in price though. I know some may think 3.8 is not possible at this time but, people like moderator have me thinking it is possible if he can be that convinced that this merger is at most just wishful thinking then there are no dought many others. I do think it will pop more then many think, just because of finallity. We all know if there is one thing the market does not like it is uncertainty. While you and I would think that this is about as certain as something can be, given past history. It looks like the wait has taken its toll, that even people that consider themselves intelligent investors such as "moderator" have become delirious. cos1000, while you and I are in for the long haul it has become almost a hoppy to predict what is going to happen, which I find to be a nice way to pass the time at times.


    P.S. Tyler I told you, dont bother with those types of people that you have to keep telling over and over and over again, the samething. People that have read your articles for some time know that you are an excellent place to pick up information that would take many more time then it is worth. I can see why you do it now, because like I have said this sector has become somewhat of a hoppy for me to.
  •  
    Jul 10 10:55 AM
    Gekk013----
    here's a link
    www.iphoneatlas.com/20.../

  •  
    Jul 10 11:10 AM
    From SIRIUS web site:

    Want to enjoy the best of SIRIUS without having to buy a radio? If you've got a computer with Internet access, you can start listening to The Best Radio on Radio right away.


    • 64 Channels of 100% Commercial-Free Music
    • Over 20 Channels of News, Comedy, Sports & Talk Radio
    • Includes Howard Stern, SIRIUS NFL Radio, Martha Stewart and more**
    • CD-Quality Sound (128K)
    • No Radio Required



    Notice the "• No Radio Required ". That's how they do it on iPhone.
    With my subscription, I received an online Username and Password. So, This HUGE NEWS is known to subscribers. :) The springboard for SIRI to be used by iPhone is there.... but .... why would Apple let you connect to their competitor? (iTunes)
  •  
    Jul 10 11:14 AM
    GETTING REAL CLOSE MEL HAS MET WITH TATE FROM THE FCC. THIS DEAL IS GOING THRU BY NEXT WEEK
  •  
    Jul 10 11:31 AM
    lonestar9942, Mel was there to tell Tate, Ibiquity is full of crap that it would only cost 10 to 12 dollars to have their HD radios intsalled in OEMs. That he would like to know, how they come to that figure considering SIRI pays 100. He is telling her that a chip subsidy is only a small part of the cost. Not to mention where do they get off trying to get us to pay for our own competition, that that has got to be one of the most ridiculous things he has ever seen in his whole life.
  •  
    Jul 10 11:36 AM
    The Vicar thinks that Mr. Tyler Savery, self-appointed satellite radio "expert" should disclose to readers his professional credentials and background. Does he hold a Series 7 or 66 license? Is he a registered investment advisor? Does he have industry experience? Aside from being just another enthusiast who parrots Wall Street research, The Vicar doesn't see what he brings to the table.

  •  
    Jul 10 11:59 AM
    Moderator....

    I am not being argumentative, but there is something there are a few things that need to be pointed out:

    You stated, "The example of the “arb play” that you list is NOT often used. How you can make such generalizations confirms you think you know more than you do. There is no typical arb play. Each one depends on the given conditions and probabilities of the various events. Anyone who says there is a typical arb play isn’t an arb trader. Between the two of us, I’d say I know much more about arbitrage than you. Where did you get your knowledge of arb strategies?? From online posts?"

    In response, this "arb play" is directly similar to that used by holders of converts. They short the stock against the converts thereby locking in a virtually guaranteed return. This is exactly what Honda did with XM stock.

    You stated, "Once again, it’s very difficult for individual investors to find firms that will let you short $2 stocks. I would doubt you can get them from online brokers like E-Trade and Schwab. And if you can they sure won’t have much to hand out. Usually only the Wall Street brokers have them but you’ll find it very difficult to do even an unsolicited trade due to compliance. These are facts. Accept them."

    In response, there is a documented large short position in SIRI. The REGSHO listing bears this out. Whether an individual trader is able to short is not really material. Shares are being shorted. Who is shorting them does not really matter.

    You stated, "So based on your extremely risky arb example, I guess you realize you are providing justification for shorting SIRI. I wonder how all of your SIRI cheerleaders will like that."

    In response, I do not have "SIRI cheerleaders", nor do I really care what they say about such a trade, nor of my own opinion. I have had many criticize my belief that the short term situation in SDARS is very challenging even with a merger approval.

    You stated, "You assume that a short SIRI position will hedge a drop of both stocks. I will guarantee you that it will not. Both stocks will not drop the same amount. I will guarantee you that the strategy you list will end up losing money if both stocks go down."

    In response lets run through each situation with taking that trade with SIRI at $2.00 and XM at $7.79. The arb in this situation is about 19%:

    SIRI DOWN and XM DOWN

    - Starting position is $0

    - short 500 SIRI @ $2.00. You now have $1,000

    - Buy 129 of XM @7.79. You now have $0

    - SIRI drops to $1.50 and XM drops to $7.00

    - deal closes. You now have 594 shares of SIRI (XM shares converted)

    - Buy 500 shares of SIRI to close short position @ $1.50. You are now down $750

    - Sell 594 shares of SIRI at $1.50. You gain $891. Profit is $141 or 19%

    SIRI UP XM DOWN

    - If SIRI went to $2.50 and XM went down to $7 you would cover the short for $1,250, and sell the shares for $1,485. Again, a 19% gain

    SIRI DOWN XM UP

    - If SIRI went to $1.50 and XM went to $9, you would cover your short for $750 and your sale would net $891. Again, a 19% gain.

    SIRI UP XM UP

    - If SIRI went to $2.50 and XM to $9.00, you would cover your short for $1,250 and sell shares for $1,485. Again a 19% gain.
    That is like thinking you will be completely protected from all downside if you buy puts. These strategies only provide partial protection. As a matter of fact, XM could drop and SIRI could rise to narrow the spread. Get your head on straight.

    Could you please outline your statement that you will lose money if both go down? The risk in such a trade is not the price, but whether or not the merger gets approval, as well as the time involved for the play to happen.

    You stated, "The arb example you list is extremely risky because you are doubling down in terms of the amount of leverage you are using. How you can even use this example and apply it to SIRI/XM for the people that read these posts is highly irresponsible."

    In response, I simply gave an example. I did not recommend the strategy, nor have I employed it myself. Such a strategy minimizes the use of your own capital, virtually locks in the spread, but relies on the companies being in business, and the merger gaining approval in a timely manner.

    You stated, "Even a simple short is very risky. Unless you are a professional trader you should not be shorting..ever. It is obvious to me you have no real experience in arbitrage."

    Shorting is risky. I rarely short an equity. It simply is not my style. Any investment is risky. As to experience in arbitrage, I outlined one type of trade, and gave the commonly used example of a strategy with converts. I will leave that part of the conversation alone due to what was outlined above.

    You stated, "Don’t try to turn this around and make this an issue of whether the merger will pass. That is not the issue. I find your reliance on the merger as some sort of savior to be a bit funny. Even if the merger passes, these companies are going nowhere."

    In response, These stocks are all about the merger right now. You were the one that stated that the arb players were betting that the merger would not pass. I disagree with your assertions, and stated that time will bear it out. Right now we simply have opinions. You feel that the companies are going nowhere. That could well be the case, but again, it is an opinion. The reasoning's behind opinions would make a good discussion.

    If you want productive discussions, that is wonderful. People should see as many perspectives as possible. That is a healthy and valuable discussion. Name calling accomplishes very little, and diminishes from the value of a conversation.

    Thanks for your opinion and the discussion
  •  
    Jul 10 12:02 PM
    163888... The Ibiquity meeting with Tate is her doing her do diligence to justify her decision as I stated above. I totally agree that Mel is now giving her the "real education" on subsidy and manufacturing costs. The "Open Access" concession is the "out" for any of the commissioners who want to vote in favor of the deal. The only sticking point will be the 1 year waiting period.
  •  
    Jul 10 12:04 PM
    163888....

    Point taken. My posting and responding in the comments section here seems to take away from a healthy discussion of opinion, as it appears some people simply want to discuss subject matter that veers outside what the topic of discussion should be.

    Thanks All
  •  
    Jul 10 12:04 PM
    WTF,
    Anyone who speaks about thmselves in the third person is wierd. Sorta like tha single 50 year old uncle who lives in your grandmothers basement, and plays Dundeons & Dragons. A given birth name and and a face is what we get with Tyler. What are your credentials. Is your real name Dungeon Master Doug? C'mon, your soapbox is as high as you are.
  •  
    Jul 10 12:04 PM
    Clearly there is deliberate delaying here for special interest "catch up". I don't think SATRAD is making a merger push so they can slowly go out of business. I think we will see SIRI make some huge partnerships and breakthroughs after this merger is complete. Hang on tight to your shares and see whats next and buy some why they are on blue light special. But what do i know. I know, as much as the analysts but far less than SIRI's coorporate heads and they have far more to lose than my measley xxxxx shares. Hang on Folks! Trust that Gut instinct. Its the best analyst i have.
  •  
    Jul 10 12:21 PM
    Tyler.....As I said it to you when you first broke down the Arb Play for us folks. Nice job, very concise. I agree with you last comment to 163888, there's to much "good stuff" going on with these companies to continue to play to those who wish to divert.
  •  
    Jul 10 12:28 PM
    connorport....I agree with you completely. This has been a great time to strengthen my positions in both companies and take down my average cost per share.

    Bababoooooie.... Nice link. I think that's what XM's product is going to do under the Skycube and Skybud names. Their portable products have been under development for a longer time than Sirius'. Their release after the merger should bring a lot of buzz to table and hopefully revenue to follow.
  •  
    Jul 10 12:41 PM
    The Vicar's identity matters less than the quality of his sound and money-saving advice. Satrad companies' growth prospects are poor. Period. Starbucks is offering discounts, and Wal-Mart is the beneficiary of everyone's "stimulus" check from the IRS. (Same store sakes at WMT leaped - report out today). Auto production is curtailing quickly. Even if you can get the strapped consumer into a new car, they won't pony up $13 a month for radio when HD and Internet radio are on their way. Upside is limited, and there are so many other companies out there with more attractive risk-reward profiles.

    If you want to treat the stock market like a casino or your favorite sports team and "cheer" for your pet stock, be my guest. You won't be cheering when your money goes into a hedge fund manater's pocket because he shorted it when you went long.
  •  
    Jul 10 12:46 PM
    Tyler, Sirius Buzz Radio tonight at 10:00, right?????

    cos1000, I know, I was just having a little fun with that comment, about Ibiquity. You should know me by now, I could not resist.
  •  
    Jul 10 12:46 PM
    You're already under water with the stocks of these unprofitable companies, and your vanity and sense of pride ("loss aversion") won't allow you to sell because you're averse to taking a loss and admitting you were wrong. So you do what all e-traders do: You sit and write obliviously cheerful messages on these boards, while your money diminishes gradually. You scorn the voice of dissent at your own risk.
  •  
    Jul 10 12:52 PM
    163888....

    LOL....After iI state that I will stop posting here in the comments section you go and ask a question. Are you tryiong to kill me? Just kidding.

    Tonight is at 9:00 PM

    That's it, no more comments posts for me.....LOL
  •  
    Jul 10 12:55 PM
    It's run up from here...........the deal is in the bag trust me!!!! run up to $2.50-2.60 before deal. $4 after deal
  •  
    Jul 10 01:03 PM
    COS1000,
    You get the point! Sirius is becoming more like the three headed dog guarding hell. SATRAD, iRAD, and on demand download on the way. The stock may not be headed anywhere soon, but the infrastructure is in place for a Audio media fan to enjoy!

    The merger aint over till it's over!

    But.......

    if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck,
    you can be sure......
  •  
    Jul 10 01:04 PM
    163888....No offense taken fine sir.....and I also agree that its a good time to be involved in the discussion of these companies, given what's happening with the markets in general right now. Nice little pop today from both of these stocks. Glad I got in on XM when I did, avg cost share is 7.35 now. I only have 1100 shares of XM. Sirius has been my preferred company, but XM has been screaming at me all week.
  •  
    Jul 10 01:04 PM
    Tyler, I ment that you should not direct post to those that you have aready explaned yourself to 4 and 5 times already. I would actually like you to post here also. I am sorry if you took what I said the wrong way.
  •  
    Jul 10 01:08 PM
    cos1000, I am laughing so hard, as I write this, because you know what is sad is that a .06 cent up tick is considered a nice pop. The reason I was laughing is I was just thinking the same thing. LOL
  •  
    Jul 10 01:12 PM
    Plus cos1000, Rush is on right now and Bow Snerdly is talking as the official black decent opinion. I love it when he then does his translation.
  •  
    Jul 10 01:15 PM
    Sorry, official Obama criticizer.
  •  
    Jul 10 01:45 PM
    Good info and discussion today guys. The merge is soooooo....... close, I can smell it. Run Blue Dog Runnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!!!...
  •  
    Jul 10 01:54 PM
    killer i agree................l... our pit bull run!!!!
  •  
    Jul 10 02:03 PM
    163888........ Can you say it in SPANISH?................. dictates that American's "Must" learn SPANISH!!!!! WHAT DO ALL YOU FAR LEFT liberals think of your "CHANGE' now hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm???
  •  
    Jul 10 02:04 PM
    Cont. ......... above comment should be..... Obama dictates........
  •  
    Jul 10 02:40 PM
    killerkaul, Obama is an idiot, he has no understanding of geographical reasoning, behind why Europeans are multi-lingual. As I have said before it is not because the different countries want to cater, to people that come to their country. It is because of just the opposite, The other countries dont care and if you dont know their language then tuff luck, and good luck getting anything done. So pure and simple Obama is a dumb a$$.
  •  
    Jul 10 03:47 PM
    THE BIT BULL IS OUT AND RUNNING JUST WAIT AND SEE VICAR!!!!
  •  
    Jul 10 03:49 PM
    NICE BUMP, HOLD ON TO YOUR STOCKS HERE WE GO!!!!! DEAL IS SOON I CAN SMELL IT!!!!
  •  
    Jul 10 04:01 PM
    163888.....Well we got .13, your right about thinking this is a pop. Any day that heads north is a good sign. It just doesn't take much to make me happy these days, LOL. .......and just another day of Blah, Blah, Blah from VicDave.
  •  
    Jul 10 04:01 PM
    While I think the deal will be approved I dont know if it will be that soon or if the stock is rising because Cramer brought more attention the Washington Post article.
  •  
    Jul 10 04:06 PM
    cos1000, I am thinking of keeping the shares I got at 1.86 with my own money. But I dont like being in again with my own cash again. AAAAHHH what the hell, I'll wait till it at least hits around 2.5.
  •  
    Jul 10 04:23 PM
    I think I hear sleigh bells....could also be a bum digging through the garbage outside my window. We'll see.
  •  
    Jul 10 04:26 PM
    163888, and indirectly killerkaul, that is not an argument, nor is it true. Obama may be many objectionable things (first and foremost, a politician), but he is not dumb. Here is the actual quote (and this is as found on Free Republic, so no risk of pro-Obama bias):

    “I don’t understand when people are going around worrying about, we need to have English only. They want to pass a law, we just, we want English only,” Obama told supporters in Powder Springs, Georgia on Tuesday. “Now, I agree that immigrants should learn English, I agree with this. But understand this, instead of worrying about whether immigrants can learn English, they’ll learn English, you need to make sure your child can speak Spanish.” “You should be thinking about how can your child become bilingual,” he said... “We should have every child speaking more than one language. It’s embarrassing when Europeans come over here, they all speak English, they speak French, they speak German. And then we go over to Europe and all we can say is merci beacoup, right?”

    It's hard to read that as anything other than a critique of our useless public education system and of the use of idotic wedge issues like English-only to divert attention from real issues, like say, our useless public education system. I wouldn't vote for him (nor would I vote for the hypocritical bag of skin cancer that serves as his opposition), but he's not dumb, and here, in my opinion, he's not wrong either.
  •  
    Jul 10 05:21 PM
    224497, When I say he is a idiot, It is towards what he says, and not his I.Q. Weather you want to admit it or not, he said Americans were dumb because most dont know a second language, he called it embarrassing. What you and he dont get is that Europeans know at least a second language (most consider english to be that second language, by the way) because they have to, due to the fact the country next to them speaks