Why Microsoft's XBox 360 Will Outsell Nintendo's Wii

According to the best guesses there are about 30 million Nintendo (NTDOY.PK) Wiis in the world, 20 million Microsoft (MSFT) Xbox 360s and 15 million Sony (SNE) Playstation PS3s. So the Wii has currently sold 50% more than the 360. And 10 million is a lot of units to make up. Here is how it will happen:

• As this site has been predicting for a long time, the Xbox 360 is now $199. This is the price point at which historically 75% of consoles sell. However the 360 got to this point very early in its life, so far, far more than 75% of 360 sales are yet to happen. Currently the Wii is above the magic $199 price point, expect it to come down as predicted here. But even at a new, low price point the Wii will have difficulty in perceived value against the Xbox 360.
• Sony is making massive losses on the PS3, and so it cannot bring the price down. All the company has been able to do recently is pass on lower hard drive prices by giving customers bigger drives at the same price. As the PS3 and the Xbox 360 are very similar in their capabilities Sony will now lose a huge number of potential sales to the Xbox 360.
• The Wii is for many people little more than a glorified toy. It is just a box for playing Wii Sports or Wii Fit. If these people want proper gaming they will buy a 360.
• The 360 has by far the best catalogue of games in this generation. This is because it was launched first, because it is far easier to develop for than the PS3, because Microsoft has invested a lot in exclusives and because 360 owners buy more games than owners of the other consoles. The Wii has some brilliant first party exclusives, but these are relatively few and most third party games are little more than shovelware.
• The Wii is very stunted in capabilites being largely just an uprated gamecube. Its capabilities are far behind those of the Xbox 360. This is especially damaging in the lack of HDTV support and a hard drive. Comparing the two machines side by side is like looking at a Ferrari next to a bicycle.
• The Wii is going to have a very short production life, perhaps four years, before it is replaced by a SuperWii that will correct its weaknesses. The Xbox 360 is going to be in production for at least eight years, the last half of that life as the low cost partner to the Xbox 720 (Phoenix) in a two model range. So the 360 has a long time to catch up and overtake the Wii for total sales.
• The 360 is being engineered into a single chip (+memory) combining the GPU and CPU. The effects of Moore’s Law are such that this will become cheap enough to incorporate into televisions, which Microsoft seems to be gearing up to do. Nintendo has no chance here... with the Wii, who would want a non HD console built into their HDTV?
• The Xbox 360 has Xbox live which is by far the best online gaming portal there is. Microsoft have built a formidable USP here and are not about to lose it anytime soon. The company will invest what it takes to keep its online offering well ahead of those of its competitors. So great will the power of live become that every keen gamer will be forced to buy the hardware necessary to access it, just so as to remain a viable member of the gaming community.
• Microsoft has now made the Xbox 360 commercially viable in Japan by creating the games that the Japanese want. This is a huge turnaround and adds a lot to the potential total sales of the console.

The success of the 360 goes against Microsoft’s traditions, normally the company waits for the third iteration of a product to become the market leader. And of course if you add the sales of the Wii to the sales of the SuperWii then Nintendo have the potential to still end up ahead.

Disclosure: None

Comments

[apropos:]

Why I think yu are off the mark:
1. The $199 360 model is the "gimped" model. It has no hard drive to make good use of Live (a point in your argument) to make very good use of the service.
2. Sony is making losses in the hardware, yes. But the PS3 software sales now offset the losses in hardware (search for recent interview given by Stringer). PS3 and 360 capabilities are similar in terms of gaming (plus/minus online offerings). As an entertainment hub, PS3 offers more with its Blu-ray playback capabilities. 360 doesn't have built-in wifi. And the Arcade model (the now $199 model) does not come with a hard drive.
3. People who graduate from playing Wii will not necessarily buy a 360 Arcade model to get more serious gaming. They can very well migrate to a DS or PSP, or one of the non-Arcade 360 (which is above the magic $199 price point), or, yes, a PS3.
4. 360 does not have the best catalogue of "casual" games. It has a lot of games targetted to hardcore gamers, games that could put off the target Wii audience (in general). Additionally, Wii owners who'd buy a 360 won't necessarily be buying games at the same rate as existing 360 users -- because they are not hardcore gamers!
5. Combining the CPU and GPU in a single chip argument - true for the other consoles. And guess what, Blu-ray drive will also come down in price as mor people upgrade their HDTV. Don't forget the cutoff date of February 2009 in the US to transition to digita TV. Yes, Wii may have less audience, but PS3 has the best propect of the 3 to benefit from ths transition. As for builing a single chip into a HDTV -- dream on. Sony has the best chance to do this and they won't. HDTVs are way more expensive than gaming console. Having a TV with built-in console gaming capability will make the TV obsolete way much faster. Who would want to buy a new TV every 5 years (and let's not get into the RROD discussion)?
6. The Xbox Live argument only holds true for hardcore gamers. For your average Joe, being able to buy a game online is suffficient. We may need to wait 1 or 2 more generations before online capabilities to be a deciding buying factor to the masses. I also question whether the 75% of potential purchasers (those only willing to buy a console at $199 or less) will be willing pay regular subscription fee.
7. 360 is still not a viable business in Japan. One week of good sales doesn't change the fact that the 360 is a failure in Japan. Declaring a turnaround is just utter fantasy!

2008 Sep 08 07:34 AM

[Poco Curante:]

Wii is more attractive across more age groups, its controls are immediately obvious and accessible since the vast majority of its games use at most to fire buttons, and its games go well beyond Fit and Sports. Even its internet and friend abilities are more accessible to the average non-gamer customer.

I can get my five year old son and my seventy year old mother together to play any Wii game instantly. Neither one has any interest in the complex controllers used by other consoles.

Most of your arguments in favor of the 360 are technical/engineering points. The VHS/Betamax example is extremely relevant when we are talking about the average non-vertical consumer.

I say this as someone whose first console was Pong and has owned a console of one type or another ever since.

2008 Sep 08 07:59 AM

[Poco Curante:]

I should have added: Sony's biggest problem moving units has not been demand. It has been supply. After two months of trying to buy one at the retail stores in my area (searching across two of the most populous counties in my state) I finally gave up and bought one at a hefty premium from a scalper off eBay.

2008 Sep 08 08:02 AM

[TERN:]

Wii players do not become hardcore Xbox gamers after they have become bored with Wii sports and Wii fit. (if ever)
They don't care for graphics and computing power.
They will buy more Wii games and Nintendo will continue to rake in the money from their biggest user base.
The balance board gives more opportunities for new entertaining games.

2008 Sep 08 08:28 AM

[jhaw:]

Most of your arguments for the superiority of the Xbox are the same arguments that have been made since the Wii was originally introduced. The Xbox has come down in price and Microsoft has introduced some compelling titles in Japan, but the rest of the argument is the same--Xbox is technically superior with more hard core games. The Wii has outsold Xbox, and in my opinion will continue to do so, because it's products appeal to a much wider audience and a much larger market.

2008 Sep 08 08:52 AM

[Brinn:]

I have to agree with the rest of the comments. The XBox has a lower price point, but people were not buying the wii because they wanted a console and just picked the lowest. If that was the case then the XBOX should have sold alot more because the wii hasn't been in stock.

I don't get how you can say the wii will only last 4 years. I have a feeling that we won't see a "SuperWii" until sales have dropped off. If you have a product that is sold out for 2 years straight, you are not going to replace it anytime soon. Whereas, the Xbox360 has dropped in price to keep sales up. The wii hasn't been FORCED to do this. When the wii starts to lose it's sales figures, then we will see a price break, but because Mircosoft is starting to hit a wall doesn't mean everyone has.

Like others have sad before me, the same gamers that buy a Wii are not the same people that buy an Xbox.

2008 Sep 08 09:40 AM

[dustinmyles:]

Why you are WRONG on a point-by-point basis:

1.) Kudos on your "prediction"; however - albeit a half-hearted Kudos, it can't REALLY be called a prediction on a count that common sense dictates that ALL consoles will receive price drops especially when they are as late in their life cycle as the 360 is.

2.) True Sony is making losses on the PS3, but this IS NOTHING NEW! Using the Playstation brand as a loss-leader has been their philosophy since the inception of the VERY FIRST Playstation.....and EVERYONE ALWAYS says the SAME THING: "They'll NEVER be able to regain their losses on that investment!" Truth be told, they HAVE made those losses back on BOTH previous iterations of the Playstation(s) (PSP included)...so don't be so eager to count your chickens before they hatch! The 360 had a little more than a FULL YEAR's head start on the PS3, and Sony has already caught up to them within a margin of 5 million units; and you know as well as anyone that if they continue to build momentum with their hardware it won't be long before they are surpassed....don't forget that the PS3 has been outselling the 360 ALMOST every month this year. Future market trends don't indicate a change in that pattern any where in the foreseeable future.

3). I Agree that the Wii is little more than a "glorified toy": I COMPLETELY AGREE with you there.....but that makes two of us! The numbers tell a different story however! While I personally LOVE Nintendo from a nastalgic viewpoint, I am COMPLETELY SICK of seeing the same old stale characters over and over and over! It's time for them to create SOME NEW IP's! But CLEARLY the ONLY thing Nintendo is interested in at the moment is making money hand over fist in an attempt to regain face lost on the abysmal performance of the Gamecube. Which is why they went with the Wii: to sell the same console (Gamecube) with a different controller interface.

4). The 360 has a larger library of games: True, its been out longer. The 360 is easier to develop for: True, its technology is old hat and no where near as advanced as the PS3's architecture. Even Todd from Bethesda has admitted that Fallout 3 is pushing the 360 to its limits, whereas the PS3 version doesn't even utilize the system full capabilities. As did Naughty Dog, the developer's of Drake's Fortune - which is one of the most graphically stunning title to date, admit that their game doesn't use but 40 - 50% of the PS3's processing power; and they could actually could improved upon it graphically had they been given a more lenient time table. I haven't even talked about Bluray; which, because of its sheer capacity, is able to hold ALOT more textures, shaders, particle emitters that can be installed on the harddrive for a game that is graphically more aesthetic, and from an audio standpoint: more dynamic. And yes, Microsoft has spent a HUGE AMOUNT of MONEY AND TIME trying to acquire Sony's OLD PS2 Exclusives, and they have succeeded to a certain extent; the PROBLEM with this approach is that while Microsoft is busing themselves trying to acquire Sony's OLD IP's, Sony is busy making NEW EXCLUSIVE INTELLECTUAL PROPERTIES like Little Big Planet, Heavenly Sword, Drake's Fortune, Resistance, and list goes on and on. Granted Microsoft has made a few new IP's, but that IS NOT where they have dedicated the majority of their resources. They've put MOST of their energy in trying to acquire Sony's OLD hand-me-downs. This is one of a few reasons that virtually EVERYONE has been calling 2008 the year of the PS3, however, the PS3 is JUST GETTING STARTED!!!

5). "Comparing the two machines side by side is like looking at a Ferrari next to a bicycle." The ONLY problem I have with this paragraph (and your entire thesis REALLY!) is that there is no mention of even including the PS3 in this equation...as if you have already written it off! Do NOT underestimate Sony, they are just getting started this generation where as the 360 seems to have already peeked, or prematurely eject-ulated....its HD format/360 disc....what? get your mind out of the gutter!

6.) YOU SAID:
"The Wii is going to have a very short production life, perhaps four years, before it is replaced by a SuperWii that will correct its weaknesses. The Xbox 360 is going to be in production for at least eight years, the last half of that life as the low cost partner to the Xbox 720 (Phoenix) in a two model range. So the 360 has a long time to catch up and overtake the Wii for total sales."
I SAY:
Nothing. I have not comment on this as it is PURE SPECULATION!!! Just because you made a "prediction" that was not REALLY a prediction more so than just common sense, does NOT mean that your going to be right about everything! Particularly things things this abstract.

7.) If and/or when Microsoft plans to put a 360 in an HDTV set, what brand of TV will they put it in?, and how much will they really be making given that they will have to split royalties with the TV manufacturer? It doesn't really sound like a viable option to me but I wouldn't put it outside of the realm of possibility. However, if combining HDTV's with consoles DOES become the future trend, I would expect Sony to have the upper hand as they have a HUGE line of High-Def sets and have been making them for quite some time. Not only that, but Sony WOULD NOT have to split profits with anyone as everything would be proprietary.

8.) I disagree that anybody - gamer or not - will EVER buy ANYTHING - by force or not - simply to be able to call themselves a "viable member of the gaming community." That is the weakest argument you've made through your entire pro-360 postulate. With the launch of HOME, it will be interesting to see how the scales will tip in regards to who will prefer which online experience. And Microsoft CLEARLY sees HOME as a threat, with the advent of their OH-SO-ORIGINAL Avatar system! And Sony did not copy Nintendo on this the way Microsoft did because the HOME project has been in development for a decade and was ORIGINALLY supposed to launched with the PS2 (same thing the motion sensing controller interface; Sony filed their patent for their version of WAAAAAAAY before Nintendo did, that's why Nintendo can't sue.Sony did it first, Nintendo copied the idea but with a different concept, or a "different" method of motion sensing i.e. IR and accelerometers vs. [Sony's ]gyro's - which work on strictly a "tilting" concept: whereas Nintendo's reads complete ROM/Range Of Motion).

9.) There are two problems with this argument that the 360 is NOW commercially viable in Japan:

A.) The 360 DOES NOT SELL FOR CRAP IN JAPAN! The Japanese have a sense of "National Pride" in purchasing their own products, specifically those from Sony and Nintendo. In addition to the fact that the 360 is American made, the other negative for the 360 in their (and everyone else's) eyes is the ridiculously, inexcusably HIGH hardware FAILURE rate of the 360.

B.) The second problem is this: For the hardcore/casual gamer that wants to get the BEST POSSIBLE 360 experience - that means online and ALL - they would have to buy ALOT of peripherals. While this doesn't sound like a major problem, it really is on the count that EVERY SINGLE PERIPHERAL IS PROPRIETARY ONLY! HD Cables, Wifi recievers, Hard Drives, Online, and more!!!! In reality, If you were go and BUY EVERYTHING that the PS3 comes with RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX you would be spending 250-300$ MORE for the 360 than the PS3! Now, mind you, that was BEFORE THE PRICE CUTS from MICROSOFT! Now AFTER THE PRICE CUTS, YOUR STILL SPENDING ABOUT 50$ MORE FOR THE 360 - which has proved itself to be unreliable at best and always at risk of the Red Ring of Death - just to get it up to speed with EVERYTHING THE PS3 has RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX....and FREE ONLINE ACCESS AS WELL!!! These are facts that Microsoft seems so apt at NOT disclosing! These are also WHY THE CONSOLE DOESN"T SELL WELL IN JAPAN! They (the Japanese, as would I) would rather buy the more advanced, more reliable (RROD) hardware at a better value/lower price point, and with a longer shelf life than a system that is known to crash, and ULTIMATELY COSTS MORE THAT THE PS3 TAKING INTO ACCOUNT WHAT THE PS3 COMES WITH RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX!!!!

And its a REAL BUMMER for me too as an American! I REALLY WISH that Microsoft had the superior hardware. But this is what happens when you rush a console to market out of the theory that being the first to launch would be all that is necessary to secure victory in this generation of the console wars! One thing that is ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN, is that THIS IS NOT THE CASE...look at Nintendo! And while I personally feel Nintendo is ripping people off by forcing them to re-purchase the Gamecube with a gimmicky controller interface, I congratulate them on their success! If I ever acquire a Wii, it will NOT be with MY MONEY! And I will hack it and NEVER buy a game from them either!; they've got ENOUGH money, they don't need mine! But REALLY HAVE NO INTEREST in a Wii. I - like most folks - want the best of the best - which entails the PS3, and the 360....not the Pii, I mean WiiWii, I mean Wii.

2008 Sep 08 09:41 AM

[makemoney2323:]

4 words: Red Ring of Death.

I like the traditional xbox, but will buy PS3 before an xbox 360 because everyone I know has had to send their's in at some point for repair.

2008 Sep 08 10:03 AM

[User 117413:]

As soon as I read the heading, I couldn't help but think "Bruce, my dear, what did you smoke today?"

2008 Sep 08 11:17 AM

[Carousel:]

I recognise your photo, I'm sure I've read your stuff before, and I'm sure I found it an equal load of b*ll*cks that time too!! In fact weren't you the guy that predicted the death of Blu-ray and the victory for HD-DVD? I'm sure that was you! Nice to see you have a proven track recording in predicting the market!!!

Part of me feels like picking your article apart line by line, but part of me can't be bothered as the inaccuracies and wrong assumptions are too many to correct!

Needless to say you are wrong on some fundamental assumptions like:

The 360 is way past the half-way point in it's live cycle and MS have no proven track record in dual generation support (look how long they kept the Xbox alive after the 360 came out!). I'd be surprised if we see 360's on store shelves in 3-4 years let alone 8!!! Like with all MS products 360 LIVE will probably be turned off 12 months after launch of 720 LIVE in order to force their customer base to upgrade, and surely XBox owners wouldn't want to be stung like this a 3rd time?

The 360 arcade is about as far from comparable with the PS3 as you can get - go out and buy a $150 HDD, a $100 Wi-Fi adapter, $20 controller charger, $50 online access, and a $300 Blu-ray player and then tell me the 360 Arcade (total $820) is better value than the $399 PS3 that includes it all in the box.

Very soon MS will have little choice but to update the 360 with a new console, the Wii and PS2 has shown graphics aren't the be all and end all, and you will get a new console with increased HDD capacity, an upgraded multi-core processor, HDMI, a high capacity storage solution and possibly some kind of motion sensing - in other words everything the PS3 has NOW! The day the 720 is released the PS3 will drop in price and multi-plat developers will be more used to the PS3 and will be able to use more capacity as both consoles will have that - in short the PS3 will look like a far better option than getting a 720 (aside from the Halo fans wanting Halo 4, which is already in development for the next Xbox according to some). If anything the 720 launch will probably help PS3 sales, and unlike last time Sony will take their time in bringing out a replacement (and that replacement will probably use Cell and is unlikely to reinvent the wheel again, in order to help the developers).

As for the Wii being short lived, I would say it's probably the most likely of them all to be around the longest, graphically it was out of date the day it launched but the Wii has never been and never will be about the graphics! The Wii doesn't need graphics that's not the point of it, it's almost a standalone device that has moved away from a "console war". Also the assumption that Wii owners will auto-upgrade to a 360 is utter fanboy nonsense, all you're doing is quoting MS execs with unfounded claims! If anything the range of titles on the PS3 would be more suited to Wii owners - unique PSN Store games, Buzz, Singstar, EyeToy games, and of course Sony's jewel in the crown of casual gaming - LittleBigPlanet! The recent MS E3 press conference shows just how out of touch the 360 is with the casual gamer by hastily launching a Mii-clone, a Singstar-clone, a Buzz-clone and an EyeToy-clone!

The 360 may have the quantity of games, thanks to the overly early launch (at the expense of hardware quality/reliability) there was a big period of dual PS2/360 hybrid multiplatform releases. But they certainly don't have the quality - a stereotypical Wii owner is more likely to go for LittleBigPlanet than Gears of War II!

It's also getting harder to justify LIVE as being "by far" the best online portal - Sony are doing some great work in this space lately and given that Sony's service is free it's getting harder and harder to justify paying $50+ for (Wii owners especially will take this into consideration). When you look at Sony's service and see an online store with really good quality download games, a unified logon and ID across all games (MGS4 being the one exception), trophy (aka achievement) support, friends list, online voice/video chat (soon to be improved by the official PS3 Bluetooth mic), online movie/TV show downloads, online music video streaming (in Europe), free trailer/demo/wallpaper... downloads and in-game access to the main menu etc. you've got to start taking their service seriously! Add to that Home (again a great service for the ex-Wii types) when it launches and Sony have a very compelling online offering, and short of cross-game invites a service that does everything LIVE does and more (for FREE). Add to that also the unique things Sony are doing in the online space that leave the LIVE series in the dust - like true MMO support, 256-player games, open platform and downloadable mods etc.

Next up, If anyone of the big 3 are going to add their technology into a TV it will be a PS3 because - a) Sony already make TV's too, b) Cell processors are already starting to be used in new-gen TV's, c) Blu-ray/PS3 built-in is much more attractive in a new HDTV than a DVD/360 built-in.

As for the PS3 losing money, what's you're point? Every console operates this business model, excluding the PS3. The money comes at the backend from software sales. Be under no illusion that Microsoft aren't losing money on the 360 hardware because they are, not to mention the billions it costs them to support RROD errors. In fact I would call this latest cut a clear sign of desperation from their part and will probably add to their losses but help claw onto their market share for a bit longer. It's their only trump card given they completely ignore the fact they launched 12 months early - time adjusted global console sales show the PS3 has sold approx 4M units MORE than the 360 at the same point in it's lifecycle, but you'll never hear MS quote those numbers!

Another point you fail to consider - with the install base of the PS3 increasing and the costs of game production going up it's getting harder and harder for MS to flash the cash and buy exclusivity, timed-exclusivity, or worst still (from the point of view of a 360 owner) an ex-PS3/PS2 exclusive. Meanwhile Sony has possibly one of the best first-party development capabilities with a lot of their "hardware sellers" coming from within Sony for the PS3 only (not even PC get these) and this is where Sony have decided to flash the cash (a much better use of funds in my view). Also as developers make games that are specifically tailored to PS3 hardware such as MGS4 and Heavy Rain these titles become exclusive by default. In other words the PS3 library of exclusives (already a lot bigger than you might think if you've read the recent compilation posted on some blogs) will continue to grow and Microsoft will continue to rely on their precious Halo franchise and a smattering of other Microsoft developed games.

2008 Sep 08 11:41 AM

[Meh!:]

Some interesting points made by everyone... but do not forget about the massive amounts of people that bought their kids a Wii and this christmas will pick up a $199 360 because they have no idea what a hard-drive is and why they should pay the extra money. I would place alot of money (if I had any) on the 360 being the top seller this year. If microsoft advertises as much as I assume they will, we will see a huge shift in 360 sales. In addition, many of the casual game players will not care a whole lot about the lack of an HDD when the system can still save their games out of the box(if they are even thinking about it) They just hit the casual price and sales will come accordingly. Is it a concern of mine who wins? No, not really. I just want to play good games. I'll pick up all three consoles when I get the money but for now I'll remain a poor college student enjoying the systems and games I've been collecting since the NES.

2008 Sep 08 01:32 PM

[getclear:]

really? who cares? They won't get 8 gold medals if they do!!!

Apparently there are enough people wanting to buy all three that none of the companies are going out of business.

This is sort of "I like blondes vs. I like redheads vs. I like brunettes" type thinking- they might all have good features and a few bad ones-

yawn

2008 Sep 08 02:17 PM

[SDF:]

Glad to see the Sony defense force is out in numbers today.

I disagree with some of the point made in this article, however some of the defense of sony are even more lame.

First ps3 has never been victim of supply out striping demand, look at the history Sony has millions of ps3 sitting in warehouses that they counted as sales.

MS has a bad habit of overcharging for their products, look at all the 360 accessories and the arm n leg required to pay form them.

The basic premise that the Wii is gimmick is sound, but it sells, not if people start to tire of Wii the 360 is an obvious buy.

The ps2 still keep pace with the ps3 sales wise, with the xbox at these kind of prices MS should be able to deliver a ton of sales in the next 6 months, if not then they got big problems,

Also the JP Xbox sales were a strong month, then ran out of supplies. If the number don't keep up over the next month we'll see the truth of a sales spike or a new buying demographic

2008 Sep 08 03:16 PM

[lolapple:]

Wow, alot of dumb fanboys here today, including the author. I'm gonna laugh so hard when this console generation ends and you're dead wrong. Oh, how I wish I could laugh in your face.

So let me get this straight, the presence of title like No More Heroes, Tenchu, Fatal Frame, Conduit, Madword, Metroid, Zelda, Fire Emblem, Tales of Symphonia, etc etc. makes the Wii a toy, right? Makes perfect sense.

2008 Sep 08 05:33 PM

[xerxes:]

The author might be right, but in all likelyhood he doesn't undertsnad the wii-mania that is still gripping the US. I have still to see my local stores have any in stock for more than a day.

The author predicted wii-doom and 360-mania in April 2008. Here are some quotes of what he wrote:

"GTA IV. This is going to transform the balance in the market strongly in favour of the HD consoles." - Fact: Apart from a short term boost, neither HD console gained much from GTA IV.

"The Microsoft Xbox 360 price cuts now make the Wii look very expensive. You get a whole lot more for your money with the 360." - Fact: The 360 had a really bad summer.

So will the new price point make much of a different? Most likely: No. It may save the 360 from ending up in last place, but it will not make it come even close to the Wii.

2008 Sep 08 06:19 PM

[Gaucho420:]

Bruce, your cost analysis is off.

The 360, in its true glory, requires 1) a hard drive that must be bought off MSFT ($100 at least) and a subscription to Xbox Live, if you want to have Xbox Live...which is the point. That's another $50 per year. What about the WIFI Antenna at $100? Its built in with the Wii and PS3.

So really, you either pony up more money in parts or you have to pay the $299 for the real 360. But no one who buys an arcade 360 will be able to experience the 360 for what it really is and you absolutly need to spend another $50 on Xbox Live. If anything, you're going to have pissed off uneducated parents who buy this thinking its ready out the box...when its not. Its misleading pricing.

So the true 360 pricinig remains at $350, if you argue that the 360 is superior...you need to have access to those features and that means hard drive and Xbox Live subscription.

The NES, SNES, Genesis, etc...all those who hit the magical sales drive of below $200...didn't need extra stuff to enjoy them fully. So while the price has been reached, it really hasn't as you need to pay more money to enjoy all the features of a 360.

What about the fact that you also need an HD-TV? The Wii, does not. In a recession, I don't see people ponying up $350 for a 360 and then $800 for a decent HD-TV.

What about the Red Ring of Death and the fact that many people refuse to get one due to the poor reps? I know someone who bought a new 360 Ultra or whatever the black model is and he got the RRoD in one month. That was in April or May, whenever GTAIV came out, o, so clearly, that's not solved. He played it for hours at at time with GTAIV and sure enough, RRoD. One month Bruce!

I'm not sure what traction you find in Japan, when the PS2 and every other system outsells it...selling 3k per week is fine and dandy if you're coming off selling 200 per week previously, but its still last place.

So I would have to disagree, especially as the Wii can lower its price much more as it is already profitable per unit and therefore, could easily be cut to $199 as well..

I expect to see a bump, but not that big of a bump as the true pricing is still at $350 if you want the whole 360 package.

This is not the same as the previous consoles in history...its a fake entry price point...you should know that Bruce.

2008 Sep 08 07:13 PM

[Gaucho420:]

And one more point...I would never buy any TV that has a built in console. Ask anyone what they thought of those TVs with VCRs built in or DVDs...they stink and usually break before a separate unit of each would've. I prefer to keep each separate.

Usually, you're pretty right on Bruce...but not this time. I disagree with almost all your points. In my opinion, the race is over and the Wii has won. I own a 360 & a Wii and yeah, I enjoy the 360 more (but not that much more), but hard-core gamers aren't the mass market and no...the mass market will not graduate to the 360 and its 10 buttons on one joystick. If they haven't move before historically, they won't move now...the Wii is not a gateway to hardcore gaming, its a gateway to regular gaming that brings people back to their youth when everyone could hope in and play a game of Pac Man, per say, like in the 80s at arcades.

The DS and its success proves it further. The mass market cares about having fun and the Wii delivers that much more efficiently (and all uncompassing) than any 10 button joystick supported console and that will never change.

2008 Sep 08 07:27 PM

[JeepNerd:]

The $199 price figure WILL drive sales, there is no doubt about that. Parents that are NOT gamers, faced with the choice of $249 wii (that they cannot actually FIND) or $199 360 they can put under the Xmas tree...

LOTS of sales this year...these kids don't play on LIVE anyway, parents have no idea what LIVE is etc. So yes, I agree, the 360 is gonna sell a TON of arcade units this year based on price and the fact the WII is still too hard to find.

Me...bought a wii, sold it/never played it, play the 360 all the time. Bought the durn HD DVD adapter, sigh.. wish a Blu-Ray adapter would come out or I will be forced to buy the PS3 just for the Blu-Ray.

2008 Sep 09 08:02 AM

[Mr. Pickles:]

Hey, bruceondrugs, I'd just like to let you know that VGChartz (you know, the forum you got permabanned from) had a glitch a while ago and all accounts that were banned are active again.

You have a second chance to make us all laugh.

2008 Sep 09 09:57 AM

[rob.scott:]

Quite amusing that one could start on so many good points and come to the wrong conclusions in one article. I thought you were doing it on purpose until I read the last few comments.

BTW, the comments make a much stronger argu

2008 Sep 10 02:02 AM

[Nerd Fitness:]

This might be one of the most poorly researched, incredibly unintelligent articles I have ever read.

I want the last ten minutes of my life back.

2008 Sep 10 05:36 PM

[xbones9694:]

You seem to have fundamental misunderstandings about the gaming market. I'm sure many have been pointed out already, but let me list what seems obvious to me:

1) The Wii, despit being released a full year later, has already outstripped Xbox 360 sales by 50%, as you've said. It is important to note that Wii demand is still high. The Xbox 360 does not have too many customers that will want to buy a 3-4 year old system for just a little cheaper.

2) The Wii, with its innovative game design, has a much longer shelf-life than any other gaming console ever. Even if the market continues towards the PS3/Xbox 360 path, the Wii will still be played simply for its gameplay.

3) Nintendo has put out many video game brands that push the Wii far beyond Wii Sports, etc. And many of those brands seen on previous platforms have yet to reach the Wii (Mario Tennis, Animal Crossing, Donkey Kong, just to name a few).

4) You seem to not understand the market. The large sales of the Wii are produced by those who wouldn't traditionally find themselves in the gaming market. These customers don't care too much about graphics.

2008 Sep 11 08:14 AM

[fableofdeath:]

Its $200 but it also has no wi-fi, no motion sensor, and no hard drive.

2008 Sep 12 09:58 AM

[User 262172:]

I love my Xbox 360! :)

2008 Sep 14 09:53 PM

[User 262189:]

"If these people want proper gaming they will buy a 360" hey old man what do u know about gaming ?
u should change the name from "Why Microsoft's XBox 360 Will Outsell Nintendo's Wii" to " why i have a Pedo smile" get ur facts straight ps3 is even selling more then the 360, ur hoping that m$ will give u money for ur poorly written article ?

2008 Sep 14 10:20 PM

[Carousel:]

oh bruce! when will you STFU? how naive of you to think that Wii and the 360 potential buyers are of the same group.

2008 Sep 14 11:22 PM

[Darkie:]

Most of you are not too bright, and you are Sony fanboys who are blinded by your love of that company and their console. Bruce make a lot of sense, and is right about most of what he wrote. Im just not sure this will all start yet since the 360 that counts is still at 299. I think only when the 60 gig falls to 200 will we see the 360 go balistic. The PS3 is in 3rd place to stay, I agree with that, but the 360 will only catch the Wii if the fad ends, or if they do launch a super wii soon.

As for PS3, you sony body guards need to ease the "F" up, Sony aint god, they failed this generation in a major way, they will stay in 3rd place for all the reasons Bruce said. The PS3 needs to drop the price to pass 360 in sales because when they get close to 360 MS will just drop the price again. Sony is not making money off the platform and has lost too much, so we will not see that needed price cut, thus PS3 stays in 3rd.

This is a race between the big boys who know business, and how to make money, Nintendo and Microsoft. deal with it sony droids

2008 Sep 14 11:34 PM

[Trini:]

Ok to little apropos up there.....you stated some good facts, none which you have any good proof of.....On the topic of Blu-Ray my friend, this format is great, don't get me wrong, it makes games look beautiful, but the technology for Blu-Ray isn't a success yet.... They still haven't perfected the technology....Example? It takes so long to make a game for the PS3, it's almost annoying to the point where you wonder why you bought a PS3.....They need to reiterate and fix that problem which most PS3 gamers hate about the system...But knowing Sony Fan-boyism, they will fight the fact that they're not angry that point when in fact they really are.....But anyways moving on, the 360 as stated in this article is way more easier to make games for and a lot of third-parties favor this idea over making games on the PS3, example? Tomonobu Itagaki's Ninja Gaiden 2....He said himself that making a game on the PS3 is way too complexed and that the 360 has the better technology and fits modern games greatly, with better power, quality and great looking graphics....There is no arguement which console has the better GPU which is definitely the 360....If you want proof reply to me and i will link you (fanboys who don't believe me) the post....I am not one of those gamers who come and trash talk consoles, I state the facts.....I don't know about 360 beating the Wii, but there's definitely a shot at it.....The Wii has alot of immature kid-like games that hardcore will spit at....The 360 and PS3 has the best line-ups that any gamer would want....And as for the Arcade having no Harddrive, the human brain works like this.....If a console if cheap, a parent would buy the console and then buy what is necessary for it.....You may jest and say "Why would people be so stupid as to do something like that" I know trust me......But this is how the world rotates....It's like buying a bicycle and then buying the necessary brakes and functions to keep it in tip top condition.....People do this because sometimes you want to optimize their own machines instead of having something that they don't want on it.....PS3 is, oh lemme rephrase that, was catching up to the 360 and even though you guys may not want to admit it, the 360 is going to surpass the PS3 in sales by a great margin....
1. Because of price
2. The Line-ups this season, especially as the Multi-plat games sell more on the 360 than the PS3, I can prove that too.
3. Xbox 360 New Experience, we all know the new interface will destroy PS3's Home....I saw that 9 minute video of Home, OMG. what a stupid move Sony, come on just a bunch of walking around...I mean you got nice graphics on there but Home generallly sucks and is boring....I don't even know why I watched that long ass Video.....360 has surprised us all with it's new innovations into the gaming world...Especially with this being it's second console.
Sony has been beaten, even though PS3 sales go up, charts show that it's going to take a whole lot of selling to catch up to the 360, which is not going to happen...The 360 has the best online experience ever and Microsoft will continue to push that.....Sorry PS3 I guess your ten year life span will be halted....With the 720 coming out soon, it will have better technology than the 360 and PS3 and will obviously wipe the slate clean, COME ON 720....

2008 Sep 15 12:20 AM

[the nameles...:]

well imma say something that im sure most of you people dont even know at all. the nintendo wii itself is purely more powerful than that of it precessor the gamecube. the wii itself might be as strong as the xbox360 (non hd graphic) if pushed to it limited. remember hardly anyone try to push the ability of the wii yet. just look at the conduit. that game graphic is par to that of the xbox 360 (non hd graphic). im ashame that most of you people dont know how strong a console is before even stating it. might as well listen to what dummies are saying than rather researching on the hardare itself

2008 Sep 15 02:39 AM

[Trini:]

@ nameless body, Dude are you serious? Are you serious right now? Dude Please, The Wii has never been and will never be on Par with the 360 even (non HD grahic-wise) The wii is clearly weaker than both consoles.....It's when fan boys decide to say shit in order to save their beloved system...Don't speak trash if you don't have hardcore facts dude...Stick to what you're good at like playing Mario Kart and other Wii- games...like that....Don't butt into the Real Hardcore, Adult-hood business alright....Thanking you in Advance
Trini

2008 Sep 15 02:50 AM

[Kermdfrag:]

What turnaround in Japan???? last week the 360 sold just over a 1000 units, even the PS2 sold more than that, all this fantasy talk about a brick beating Nintendo is rather funny and utterly pointless.

2008 Sep 15 03:31 AM

[Trini:]

funny you should say that the 360 is a brick when the PS3 is totally heavier than a 360 and the Wii is a kiddy's play thing dude, would you idiots stop defending that bullshit of a console....I respect it just for the fact that it sold alot but the games all suck man come on...No good games to keep the Hardcore gamers satisfied....It's all for those Casual kid gamers....Stop it Already

2008 Sep 15 04:00 AM

[fortelv999:]

interesting how these guys say "i'm stating facts" and all they do is tell their opinions, of course sales figures are solid but saying "the 720 is just around the corner", or taking the word of one developer to decide the better console is just too partial, i own a PS3 and i am somewhat dissappointed in the quantity of games i get, but reading the news i know im not missing anything important on the 360 (dont care for FPS, i do care for RPGs but luckily im still getting FFXIII)

anyway, the author of this article sounds like a salesman working for MS, you cant deny it . about "ferrari v/s a bicycle", arcade for $199 = a ferrari with a 80 kmh top speed

2008 Sep 15 04:56 AM

[User 262765:]

What makes me laugh about the Wii is people have went out and bought it and have now realised that most of the games for it are either average or rubbish, plus it look like it's getting Dreamcast and PS2 remakes. New releases have dried up which happens with every console, more so Nintendo consoles which is what happened with its last 2 consoles, more so the Nintendo 64. And to wrap it all up, the Wii is basically a beefed-up GameCube. Nintendo has a job on its hands now to keep Wii owners happy with new releases and I just can't see it happening. As for games from other developers/publishers, they can only do so much with the Wii as it's last generation technology, it's not even as powerful as the original Xbox. Wii sales are starting to dry-up, as most stores now are doing package deals, one store reduced it from £180/$340, to £160/$320 (yes, the Wii sells for around £180 in the UK). The honeymoon period is coming to an end I'm afraid. There's a few games I want to play on the Wii, but I think I'll wait until it's around the £100 mark as it's not worth the price it's at now.

2008 Sep 15 03:05 PM

[NeCrom-X:]

Hahahaha Did you actually look at the numbers the PS3 has sold more than the 360 world wide the only place the 360 did better was North America. The fact that you don't know that makes the rest of the article pointless.

2008 Sep 15 03:08 PM

[Trini:]

@fortelv999, it's also funny that you bring your opinions in here but still manage to discuss the type of games you don't like which is not even part of this convo, grip up boy, don't post about things that you see people doing and then you turn around to do the same damn thing........hhahahaha... man ppl should just stop posting nonsense

2008 Sep 15 03:35 PM

[User 262814:]

* As this site has been predicting for a long time, Computers are now cheaper. This means they will sell more. You can get an alright computer for less than an NES. Currently the NES is above the magic $199 price point, expect it to come down as predicted here. But even at a new, low price point the NES will have difficulty in perceived value against computers
* The NES is for many people little more than a glorified toy. It is just a box for playing Baseball or Track and Field. If these people want proper gaming they will buy a computer
* The computer has by far the best catalogue of games in this generation. This is because it was launched first, because manufacturers have invested a lot in exclusives and because computer owners buy more games than owners of the other consoles. The NES has some brilliant first party exclusives, but these are relatively few and most third party games are little more than shovelware.
* The NES is very stunted in capabilites being largely just an uprated really old computer. Its capabilities are far behind those of the computer. Comparing the two machines side by side is like looking at a Ferrari next to a bicycle.
* The NES is going to have a very short production life, perhaps four years, before it is replaced by a SNES that will correct its weaknesses. The computer is going to be in production for at least eight years, the last half of that life as the low cost partner to the new computer in a two model range. So the copmuter has a long time to catch up and overtake the NES for total sales.
* Blah, blah, blah...technical advances
* The computer has networks which is by far the best gaming portal there is.
* Manufacturers have now made the Computers commercially viable in Japan by creating the games that the Japanese want. This is a huge turnaround and adds a lot to the potential total sales of the console.


Oh, wait. We're talking about the present? Not 20 years ago? Sorry, I got confused since the circumstances were so similar. Y'know, Nintendo releases a gimped console that catches on for a while, but is eventually overtaken by the better ones, and things return to the way they were? Except, that's not how it happened. And the NES lasted, what, eleven years before the SNES?

You're a moron. Study some history, and study some disruption theory, then come talk to me.

2008 Sep 15 04:37 PM

[Trini:]

lolz I AGREE USER 262814, little wii will be a little under-nourished in a year or so, no good games equal whack-ass console...hahahahaha

2008 Sep 15 05:16 PM

[User 262814:]

^What? Did you even read my comment? I'm sort of defending the Wii, there. Or did you realize that, and just fail at typing in a comprehensible manner?

2008 Sep 15 05:36 PM

[PENGUINKK:]

First, I don't see why predicting a price drop should be a bragging point. Second, you're thinking narrowly at the market, the same exact way people thought about the DS. "Well, it's less powerful, lacks features, has a lot of shovelware, bad online, and yeah, it has an innovative feature, but no one's going to care about that compared to the multimedia features of the PSP!" It cracked into a huge, untapped market of nongamers and raked in the sales. It's the same thing here. You're forgetting the nongaming audience and that they don't care about in-depth online features, the 360's capabilities, or its games because it don't appeal to them. The Wii has them sold, and no news of the 360's processing chips being combined will bring them around to purchasing an Xbox.

Some other points I'd like to comment on:
-The price drop hardly means anything, as informed gamers already know it's an incredibly cheap deal, and since the 360 isn't appealing to anyone else, sales will not increase, something that we've already seen.
-While the 360 has the best online, the cost to get it up and running might dissuade people from buying. I already know several people who don't have Live because the extra accessories to make it function aren't worth the price.
-Your "SuperWii" prediction means absolutely nothing.
-As I already said, the 360 might have the best games, but the nongaming Wii owners aren't going to care.
-So basically, you're talking about a potential sales base consisting of hardcore Wii owners who want more options, people who couldn't afford the 360 above $200 price, and then the collection of random people who decide to purchase one. That doesn't look like 20 million in sales to me.

In conclusion, this article is filled with such biased, ignorant, and arrogant statements that I'm amazed I wasted my time to read it.

2008 Sep 15 05:59 PM

[willdigital:]

This made alot of good points. But I love the people and their comments. It funny how I hear about PS3 creating new IP, but new IP don't sale well. Come on. Heavenly Sword did not sell very well and they are not making a part two.
The Wii is want it is. It was made from the ground up to rech the non-gamers. People who rarely or ever played games. Nintendo know they would be crushed if they came out with a system to go for the same people that MS(xbox360) and Sony(PS3) are aiming at. So they went a route that paid off better then many thought. I don't care to own a Wii. I like more grown up games. But will not degrade the system.
Each system has it plus or minues. So make your choice and enjoy the games and kill all that "who better then who" Who cares.

2008 Sep 15 06:08 PM

[Trini:]

Yeah i realized that i put the wrong name my bad it wasnt you it was Darkie

2008 Sep 15 06:11 PM

[n00n3:]

I'd have to disagree. This sounds a little like the analyst that predicted PS3 would win this console war. Though I personally like the 360 better, the Wii will still dominate.

"Wii is going to have a very short production life, perhaps four years"

historically for all of Nintendo's consoles, even failing ones (gamecube), had long lifespans. The only exception was the dismal VirtuaBoy. Nintendo likes milking their consoles. The only major changes are typically aesthetic.

"even at a new, low price point the Wii will have difficulty in perceived value against the Xbox 360"

depends on what audience you are refering to. for hardcore gamers this is true (and they probably already bought their 360s and PS3s). However for casual gamers this doesn't hold. Wii's main advantage is its intuitiveness and casual family oriented gaming library.

"This is especially damaging [to Wii] in the lack of HDTV support and a hard drive."

again it depends on the audience. yes being part of the hardcore gaming audience, we don't like that, but given the small HDTV penetration in the US; i'm betting the casual gaming masses could care less.

"The effects of Moore’s Law are such that this will become cheap enough to incorporate into televisions, which Microsoft seems to be gearing up to do."

nice imagination - I just really doubt it especially if you have nothing to back it up with beside pure conjencture.

"So great will the power of [xbox] live"

again - Live is for the hardcore. Moreover MS doesn't seem to differentiate the number of Xbox Live Gold members (that have access to all the publicized features) vs Xbox Live Silver members which have virtually no access.

"Microsoft has now made the Xbox 360 commercially viable in Japan"

while this is promising - it's too early to tell whether MS has a turnaround. In order to keep momentum they need to have more RPG exclusives in Japan - or this will be temporary.

2008 Sep 15 06:16 PM

[Trini:]

Penguinkk where are you getting your information about the price drop not being a big deal? haven't you seen that the price has brought 360 sales up 100%? Dude what world are you living in? And who said it's appelaing to anyone? Boy you must be crazy....please link me your information and then I'll believe what i see, because to me you're desperately tryin to save the wii without any hardcore facts....The cost will never dissuade someone from getting live....It's like $9 for a month and $20 for 3 months....if thatz not a good deal then you're just plain stupid.....The people that you said has a 360 and aren't buying the necessary parts for live ain't 360 fans....because every hardcore 360 owner will get Live, you're talking out of the balls right now....your make-believe friends could go drown in there little Mario Kart for all I care....Dude stop saying Hardcore Wii gamers.....The wii has no hardcore games so there can't be hardcore gamers for the wii....Say Casual it's a better word to explain the children that play the Wii and itz dildo controller......

2008 Sep 15 06:25 PM

[tplarkin7:]

Excellent points, Bruce. Microsoft is the turtle that will beat the Sony/Nintendo hare in the long console race.

2008 Sep 15 10:42 PM

[Ryan Rigney:]

I've posted a pretty popular counter-article in response to this one here, on my site: slapstic.com/index.php...

2008 Sep 15 10:54 PM

[David Macphail:]

Normally when i read fanboyish internet drivvle i just leave the web page, but this article is so utterly ridiculous there are some things i just HAVE to point out.

The person who wrote up this article obvious;y has NO knowledge of the gaming market whatsoever. First you talk about the WiI having a limited lifecycle compared to the 360......this statement is backwards for so many reasons:

The Nintendo Wii is selling at an amazing rate with NO signs of slowing down anytime soon........so what incentive does Nintendo have to bring out a new console in the next 1 - 2 years??? Do they NEED a new console? NO! Which company does need to bring out a new console? The one with the faulty piece of crap that currently finishes last in worldwide hardware sales every WEEK......Microsoft, of course.

The Xbox 360 has finished behind the PS3 and the Nintendo Wii EVERY SINGLE WEEK of 2008 in worldwide hardware sales figures, and the fact that is has a crappy online service (I'll get back to this later), no games and a 33% failure rate aren't going to help those matters much. Heck, forget the price drop, Microsoft could literally give the Xbox 360 away for FREE and they STILL would end up last in this console race.

Which brings us to the recent articles speculating that in fact it will be Microsoft who forfeit this generation first and bring out the Xbox 720 in either 2010 or 2011. A much more likely outcome, since the PS3 sales have seen a fair increase year - over - year and the Wii is still at the top of it's game, neither Nintendo or Sony need to worry that their chances of winning have already come and gone.

Now let's get to the price drop argument....you argue that now that the 360 Arcade is cheaper than the Wii it will sell more? Is it not true that the Xbox 360 Arcade was a good bit cheaper than the PS3 BEFORE it's recent price cut.......yet the PS3 still outsold it EVERY SINGLE WEEK??? If the PS3 can outsell it at twice the price then surely the Wii (Which sells better than the PS3) can outsell it at about $40.00 more, no? Like i said, Microsoft could hand them out on the street for free and people would still turn their noses up at it.

Now let's move on to Xbox live, you claim it's the best online gaming service there is to offer and that Microsoft would definetly be looking to keep one step ahead of the competition (PSN) to keep it that way? May i ask then......when is the 360's answer to Playstation Home due for release??? Y'know...Playstation Home, the FREE social/gaming network application. Let's just compare the two online services.....with Xbox live you get a solid online gaming service but with less features and NO social networking applications......that they expect you to pay for??? With PSN you get everything Xbox Live has to offer and MUCH, MUCH MORE.......FOR FREE? It doesn't take a HNC in Multimedia to figure out what hardware you would have to buy to access the "Best online gaming service around".....even if it is twice the price.

Now let's take a look at games, what exactly does the 360 have in the near future to get it off store shelves? Let's take a look at a few:

Gears Of War 2
Banjo - Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts
Alan Wake
Halo Wars
Forza Motorsport 3

Kinda underwhelming when you look at the direct competition:

Resistance 2
Motorstorm: Pacific Rift
Socom: Confrontation
LitlleBigPlanet
Killzone 2
Final Fantasy Versus XIII
White Knight Chronicles
Jak & Daxter: The Lost Frontier
InFamous
Gran Turismo 5
God Of War 3

So despite being the cheaper solution, the 360 has worse (Not to mention less) games, an online service which is expensive and shoddy at best and a dodgy failure rate (The highest in videogaming history, if i'm not mistaken) and that's not even taking into account that it can't play HD Blu - Ray disks........what CAN that Xbox 360 do, exactly, that justifies IT'S price tag???

I wouldn't like to give my predictions on who IS going to win this console war......but i'll tell you who is a sure - fire bet for last place. Just remember, when it comes to making a new purchase, you pay for quality. There's a very good reason the Xbox 360 is the cheapest console of this generation...............

2008 Sep 16 08:09 AM

[Trini:]

oK David, You made valid points in your post, but are you seriously thinking that Home is going to be better than Xbox Live? You did not just go there...Please Post something else and I'll be happy to Put you down with your PS3....I'll explain everything to you what the 360 has better to offer than Home......You don't know the half of it Homie.....I like that you came in strong with your arguements, but when you reached the part with Home being better than Live, Your IQ dropped to a mere 1.......You have to kidding me.....It is way better Now and will continue to be better...You're nuts boy......Home is nothing but a bunch of walking around and being gay.....While Live is more direct and to the point....Are you really serious about needing a web browser on your PS3? Get outta here, thatz what you have a computer for, which makes a computer irrelevant in being in a home......But without computer and interent where would Home be? ask yourself Homie.......360 Live will still demolish Home Playboy.....stop playing your hand with Microsoft, Stay HOME and play ya little SOCOM.....AHHHH how tiresome these Sony fanboys become....Please i am aching for you to post again....Please post again....I WILL RIP YOU AND YOUR PS3 APART...Please,.,,

2008 Sep 16 04:22 PM

[PENGUINKK:]

Trini. I seriously laughed out loud when I read your post.

- Yes, 360 sales did increase, but only for a few weeks, as later sales started to decline and settle back into third behind Wii and DS. I forget if it ever overtook Nintendo in monthly sales or not.

- "And who said it's appelaing to anyone?" Okay, make my point for me.

- I do know people who will not purchase Live for the price. So...that's that. One person does not have a wireless connection and purchasing an adapter is costly for them.

- "The people that you said has a 360 and aren't buying the necessary parts for live ain't 360 fans"

If they purchase the console and buy and enjoy the games, I think that qualifies them as a "fan". If you're talking about the extreme hardcore fans who have hundreds to spend on games, then I suppose the people I know are not.

- "because every hardcore 360 owner will get Live, you're talking out of the balls right now." I think you are.

-"your make-believe friends could go drown in there little Mario Kart for all I care."

They don't own Wiis, and my one friend actually hates Mario Kart. I shouldn't have to correct your ridiculous assumptions, so any more comments like this will be ignored.

-"The wii has no hardcore games so there can't be hardcore gamers for the wii...."

Due to the blind idiocy of this statement I will not waste my time listing hardcore games. If you think this is a cop-out move on the argument do not even bother saying so.

Your post is so full of bias, ignorance, generalizations, and horrible grammar it's disgusting.

2008 Sep 16 04:27 PM

[Trini:]

Ok to David again....you said that Xbox live is expensive? Dude it's nine dollars for a month, 20 dollars for 3 months, 50 dollars for A year.....What's expensive about that? that's like saying a game is expensive and you're not going to buy it because of it's cost....bullshit number 1, get owned....Then you go on to talk about the games the 360 has to the PS3 when you know for a damn fact that Gears 2, Fable 2, Forza 3 and Halo Wars could Battle the PS3's Resistance 2, Killzone 2, Gran Turismo 5, definitely God of War 3, Socom 2 (which is like another failed Ghost Recon), crappy ass game. Don't even mention LBP, Kid-like game that would not appeal to Hardcore gamers......Please get owned yet again......The only game from your line up that poses a threat is Final Fantasty Versus and that's not even gonna be that big, because 360 still has Final Fantasy 13 just like the PS3 and is going to boost sales regardless....Please stop with your failed attempts to arguements which are not even hard facts...Home is generally a false attempt at Live, and tell me what other features Home offers that is better than Live, remember you stated more but not the features that are important....the "MORE" YOU'RE talking about is probably some really gay features that don't account to much, they're probably not even important......Please state them and don't jest, let's see what they are and then I'll tell you if its worthy of being better than Live, You're such a cocky PS3 fanboy it's ridiculous.....And then you go on to say PS3 is better online because it's cheap? Who cares if it's cheap.....If it was better because it was cheap it would be the best online service and wouldn't be underneath 360's live right? Fanboyism whack ass statements yet again....hahahah it is so funny to see you guys talk shit about 360 when your facts are dagerously lacking....Dude who the hell needs social networking on a console....that's what your computer is for.....The PS3 brings so much unnecessary features to the PS3 it's a shame, so what will be the need of a computer then? Please tell me...Oh but you need internet to play on PSN right? You're an ass........why didn't they just put in a built in Router then huh? Because Sony is trash, they put so much Bullshit into their console that's why they're still underneath 360.......Too much shit in a console equals= expensive console=no good sales=no price drop=no good sales again.....and that so called failure rate has been fixed already with the new mother boards they implanted in the new consoles, do you read boy? Please your fanboyism is out of place...who cares about BLU-RAY? it's technology isn't hasn't even been perfected yet....example? long ass loading times, long ass time to make a game on the console....Again get owned.....Then even the PS3's grahics look so misty and dull while the 360 has clean clear graphics..let's get back on the BLU-RAY'S case...Have you seen the demos? BD-Live is a joke. It's a second-rate attempt to offer interactive features that HD DVD did first and much, much better.
It won't work on old Blu-ray players (they don't have the persistent storage) and may not work on new ones: it's not mandatory for Blu-ray player makers to include it in the hardware they sell. Result? Large doses of confusion and frustration for anyone (un)lucky enough to buy a Blu-ray disc with BD-Live features on it. Please be real.....that's why PS3 is gonna stay in last place...Please give me another reason to own you....

2008 Sep 16 04:54 PM

[Trini:]

yeah i made a mistake and you knew what i was sayin......Who said it isn't appealing to anyone? please let me know....and I'll own you to...

2008 Sep 16 04:55 PM

[Trini:]

Ok back to Penguinkk, you say something really stupid, "If they purchase the console and buy and enjoy the games, I think that qualifies them as a "fan". If you're talking about the extreme hardcore fans who have hundreds to spend on games, then I suppose the people I know are not." Okay do the math, if you just by a 360 and play games on live are you really experiencing what's good about the console? Good i guess i don't have to explain anymore to an immature kid.....you think because using good grammar is going to make somebody feel bad? then you're wrong my friend....You're not smart. you're just foolsih to the fact that the 360 can pull this off...that settles that....and who cares if you ignore my statements very childish on your part...and you did copp out of this because even though the wii has hardcore games, is it enough to feed hardcore gamers? Please idiotic remarks like that will only get you owned please stop it.....

2008 Sep 16 05:00 PM

[Trini:]

I will correct myself, I meant to say " Okay do the math, if you just by a 360 and play games on the console without live are you really experiencing what's good about the console?"

2008 Sep 16 05:06 PM

[User 262814:]

"Hi, I'm Trini. Rather than argue, I'm just gonna go ahead and post opinions and ad hominem attacks. If anyone posts a good arguments I'll ignore them. Lalalala, I'm an idiot."

Troll harder, dude.

2008 Sep 16 06:30 PM

[PENGUINKK:]

" Okay do the math, if you just by a 360 and play games on the console without live are you really experiencing what's good about the console?"

Yes, just not Live. My friends without Live are perfectly fine with their 360s and enjoy the console very much. They only have singleplayer and offline multiplayer, which is what people had to deal with only a few years ago, so I'm sure they'll survive.

"you think because using good grammar is going to make somebody feel bad? then you're wrong my friend."

No. Your current writing already told me you didn't care about grammar. It was more of an aside about my ordeal reading the thing.

"you did copp out of this because even though the wii has hardcore games, is it enough to feed hardcore gamers?"

Yes. From your previous statement I could already tell you know next to nothing about the Wii library, but there are actually plenty of hardcore titles out there. You might disagree with some games being labeled that, but hardcore doesn't mean blood, gore, online deathmatches, or an M rating.

"Please idiotic remarks like that will only get you owned please stop it....."

I'm just laughing at your warped interpretation of this argument.

2008 Sep 16 07:20 PM

[Trini:]

Yeah Penguinkkk laugh all you want but it's really ridiculous of you to think that hardcore has nothing to do with Blood, gore, online deathmatches and so on and so forth.....Like i was explaining to someone before you on a next post, The Hardcore that you might think that you can do on the Wii...., yes you can definitely be hardcore in Supersmash Bros Brawl and other Kid like games, but remember these are kid like games....When the hardcore comes out of people's mouth these days, they're talking about games with Blooad, Cursing, Shooting, Killing Aliens that actually bleed......Perfect example Ninja Gaiden 2......Your interpretation of Hardcore has been extinct since Hardcore games like Resident Evil and other Bloody games like these, surfaced,.....There just isn't room for your type of Hardcore anymore....And i dont if it's me or just you playing dumb, but i think you definitely know what people mean by Hardcore and is just playing sarcastic because you want to keep your meaning of Hardcore alive to defend the Wii....Like I said dude, List some Hard core games, (let me put in Child-words for you) list some of your Type of Hardcore games that could feed the hunger of a different type of Hardcore gamer like me and alot of others who like blood and Gore,..Please do that in your next post or I will really think that you don't know what era of gaming you're in and that you're copping out ....very simple....Thank You

2008 Sep 16 07:32 PM

[Trini:]

As for you User you're just a loser and don't have any good comebacks.....They're not opinions, they're facts, if you were smart and read like i do, you would realize that you're just a fanboy with no motives and no maturity underneath your belt. Sorry that i left you lost without a cause Homie......Be easy with yourself and have fun crying at the truth I spoke in my posts.......

2008 Sep 16 07:36 PM

[PENGUINKK:]

I never stated "hardcore has nothing to do with blood, ect." I said "hardcore doesn't mean blood, ect...", and there is a difference. My statement is implying that blood and gore do not solely define hardcore, as games can be hardcore and not include blood and gore. The term "hardcore game" means the game will appeal to the hardcore audience, and since blood and gore really only appeal to the hardcore audience, people tend to say hardcore game = blood and gore. Those people are wrong. What about genres like racing, space shooter, RTSs....? Are those games not hardcore because they don't include blood and gore? There are titles in every hardcore genre that do not contain blood and gore, shooters included. My definition is alive; you're just misinterpreting it.

As for blood and gore heavy Wii games, I would say No More Heroes and MadWorld. Wait, that's ONLY two games. Congratulations, you just pointed out the obvious. Is the Wii for you, then? No, it isn't, and it doesn't have to be. I was never trying to prove that, just merely defending the Wii from your radical and wrong opinions.

"They're not opinions, they're facts"
Ha...ha....ha...No.

"if you were smart and read like i do, you would realize that you're just a fanboy with no motives and no maturity underneath your belt."

That could easily be reversed in this situation.

2008 Sep 17 05:24 PM

[Trini:]

Ok Dumb ass, let's see how stupid your are, "The term "hardcore game" means the game will appeal to the hardcore audience, and since blood and gore really only appeal to the hardcore audience, people tend to say hardcore game = blood and gore. Those people are wrong. What about genres like racing, space shooter, RTSs....? Are those games not hardcore because they don't include blood and gore? There are titles in every hardcore genre that do not contain blood and gore, shooters included. My definition is alive; you're just misinterpreting it."

Okay you seem to think that you're smart so, do the math, I said that you can definitely be Hardcore in those types of games, but when people say Hardcore these days they're talkin about Blood and gore.....I never said that you can't be Hardcore in those other games.....What I said is that those games are for the casual crowd and casual crowds can definitely be hardcore, But you're missing the point, The term Hardcore NOWADAYS, AGAIN NOWADAYS, MEANS BLOOD AND GORE....HOW MUCH TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU THIS...?
YES AND I AM HAPPY THAT I POINTED OUT THE OBVIOUS, YOU FELT STUPID BECAUSE YOU CAN ONLY NAME 2, BUT YEAH WRITE BACK AND SAY I SOUND IMMATURE OR WHATEVER BUT YOU KNOW I CAUGHT YOU WITH THAT ONE....AND ITS NOT ABOUT THE WII BEING FOR ME OR NOT, DON'T TRY TO BE A SMART SARCASTIC JACKASS WITH ME.....ITS ABOUT THE WII NOT BEING ABLE TO PLEASE THE HARDCORE (FANS WHO LIKE BLOOD AND GORE). IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT.....THATS ALL I WAS TRYING TO SAY.....DONT TRY TO CALL ME OUT LIKE I WAS SAYING THAT YOU CANT BE HARDCORE IN ANY OTHER TYPE OF GAMES, WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU? IN ANYCASE HOMEBOY, I THINK YOU NEED TO LEARN TO UNDERSTAND A LITTLE BETTER INSTEAD OF HAVING YOUR RAGE TO DEFEND THE WII BLIND YOU......AND THE WII DOESN'T EVEN HAVE GOOD RACING GAMES INSTEAD FOR THOSE KID GAMES LIKE MARIO KART, WACKY RACES AND CRASH AND DASH.....DUDE THOSE ARE KID GAMES WHICH =CASUAL GAMES=FOR KIDS=NOT HARDCORE IN THE "NOW HARDCORE GENRE" SENSE.......IF YOU CANT UNDERSTAND THIS THEN YOU'RE RETARDED.....

2008 Sep 17 10:07 PM

[PENGUINKK:]

Honestly, I'm completely baffled at how you do not understand my point, I don't know what to say.....

Let me get this straight. You said casual games can be played hardcore-ly, but are not actual hardcore games. Blood and gore = hardcore game. So any game I list that doesn't contain blood and gore isn't considered a hardcore game, but can be played hardcore-ly. I'm assuming this is right, but correct me if I'm wrong.

So, assuming that information is right, I believe you are confusing mature content with actual gameplay. Blood and gore appeal to mature audiences, which are a lot of gamers. Therefore, you think that any game not appealing to mature audiences through blood and gore are not hardcore. Completely untrue. The major difference between casual and hardcore games is the complexity of the gameplay. Both Metroid and F-Zero offer some very challening gameplay, and because those games appeal to an audience of great skill, the hardcore gamers, they are considered hardcore.

The MMORPG Eve doesn't have any blood and gore, but is incredibly complex and you'd be insane to suggest it is a casual game. Meanwhile, Halo is considered by many to be a casual for its accessibility and fun that can be taken to extreme hardcore levels. Arcade zombie shooters as well contain blood and gore but are called casual because anyone can play. So really, the point about playing a game hardcore-ly is irrelevant because any game can be played hardcore-ly or casually.

In conclusion of that argument, the only constant for defining hardcore is the gameplay, because "how you play" is inconsistent and can vary for any game. Many games have complex gameplay but no blood and gore, so therefore are defined as hardcore, which makes blood and gore an irrelevant component of determining the core meaning of hardcore. Your experience with an incredibly small amount of hardcore gamers does not justify your opinion as universal or correct.

Really though, it seems the main issue is you're mixing up "gaming hardcore" with "mature hardcore", and using that as a basis for your opinion.

Moving on to the all caps paragraph. I'm not raging, unless you're imagining my voice in an incredibly angry tone when reading my posts. If anyone is, you are.

Like I said in my previous post, I wasn't trying to prove the Wii had a lot of blood and gore games, so how can you "catch" me on something I wasn't trying to get away with?

".AND ITS NOT ABOUT THE WII BEING FOR ME OR NOT, DON'T TRY TO BE A SMART SARCASTIC JACKASS WITH ME.....ITS ABOUT THE WII NOT BEING ABLE TO PLEASE THE HARDCORE (FANS WHO LIKE BLOOD AND GORE)"

The Wii will not please hardcore gamers who love blood and gore, so it is not for you. How is that statement any different from what I already said? And I already established that blood and gore doesn't equal hardcore above. I see you're trying to imply "blood and gore fans= all hardcore gamers" with the parentheses, but that is incorrect. So there are plenty of hardcore games for hardcore gamers, just not the blood and gore loving hardcore gamers. Which is what I already said.

"AND THE WII DOESN'T EVEN HAVE GOOD RACING GAMES INSTEAD FOR THOSE KID GAMES LIKE MARIO KART, WACKY RACES AND CRASH AND DASH."

What does this have to do with anything? Mario Kart is casual, where did I say it wasn't?

If you're going to respond again, please, use some supportive opinions or strong points instead of only saying "blood = hardcore game" mixed with some completely unsupported statements and insults.

2008 Sep 18 05:52 PM