Sirius XM On the Rise - Does Microsoft Want a Piece? 129 comments
-
Font Size:
-
Print
- TweetThis
Is Microsoft (MSFT) ready to take a stake in SiriusXM (SIRI)? Some think so.
Former European equities analyst and now research consultant Ben McClure noted:
It's hard to imagine Sirius XM's creditors pulling the plug on the company without too much reluctance. Lenders recognize that the company, while cash-strapped, is not failing. They know that if its looming debt obligations are resolved, Sirius XM will be a self-sustaining business.
The company is increasing revenue while quickly decreasing costs. Pro-forma revenue should come in at roughly $2.4 billion this year and $2.7 billion next year. With synergies from the merger of Sirius and XM tallying up to more than $425 million per year, Sirius XM management projects a move from a $350 million loss this year to a $300 million gain in 2009.
Sirius XM could also do a deal with an industry partner looking to take advantage of its large and growing subscriber base. The newly merged Sirius XM is expected to close out the year with 19.5 million satellite radio subscribers. Its target for next year is 21.5 million. To put that number into perspective, the company's subscriber numbers are not far behind those of cable giant Comcast (CMCSA), which has 24.6 million subscribers. Potential partners that come to mind are Apple (AAPL), Microsoft (MSFT) and satellite TV operators such as DirecTV (DTV) and Dish Network (DISH).
Disclosure: Long SIRI and buying more under $1 well worth the risk with excellent rewards. No other positions.
Related Articles
|
This article has 129 comments:
kidding?
Hard to imagine how never turning a profit, never producing positive cash flow, negative working capital, large debts coming due and being substantially under capitalized can be defined as anything except failing.
Long SIRI, Long Steelers
IT TAKES CHECKING ACCOUNT CASH TO STAY ALIVE!
Such a situation places a company's fate totally in the hands of willing lenders. (New equity at current price is out of the (dilutive!) question.)
As I see it SIRI is in a life-or-death race to achieve sufficient cash flow to make a good case to lenders and there is a less than 50-50 chance that lenders in current and 2009 credit markets will want to keep the enterprise afloat. The current financial statement metrics are HORRIBLE. A Ch.11 reorganization would do wonders--the subscribers would be taken care of but the shareholders would NOT.
You are not taking into account that logic does not factor into the equation. If it did, Wall Street would not be such a mess!
You must still have that short position eh? What you lookin' to cover at?
All things are not Sirius XM Radio right now. On the bright side, although the Detroit bailout will not make money available at 4% to Sirius directly as a supplier, it will make that money available to the auto manufacturers for retooling of energy friendly autos. That makes existing auto capital available for other business lines, maybe a credit line to Sirius, maybe. Sirius will have a bad 3rd quarter and needs to solve the Feb 09 debt problem and will with help from its partners. Sirius pays its bills and is a growing revenue and free cash flow story. This is a tough partner to find in these days of financial woe. Bankruptcy at this time is out of the question because it fractures trust in the business model with Sirius' Partners and gives no reason for them to further invest in a failed model. They will not do this, not because of their loyalty to the common shareholders but because of the partnerships with Appollo, Honda, Ford, GM and Chrysler.
This is not a time or, should I say, this is the worst possible time for Mel to be out there talking about new products and programs. No one is listening. How many people heard about the $25Billion Auto Bailout, sorry Loan, at 4% yesterday? We need to get through the Politics of Washington and Wall Street before anyone will refocus on the Big Blue Dog. In a time perceived and real financial crisis it is not the time to waste advertising dollars on Sirius' new products and programs.
Give SIRI some credit. Sentiment on the company has gone positive in he face of a mountain of negativity...they're fighting the good fight and have a lot of work to do. Anyone who expected all their problems to be solved by now is not right in la cabeza. I do hear people's frustration...a lot of money is underwater right now, including mine. The stock is definitely in a shall we say "contrived state" at the moment--or maybe just to say "being controlled outright" is better. But that's Wall Street. Is it frustrating?... hell yeah.
So yesterday out comes the 8K announcing the switch to KPMG. Either way, that's positive progress. It's most likely their way of starting fresh with the newly combined company...'check' on the "to-do" list...of which there is plenty. The Oct. 6 new release is around the corner--more progress. Obviously, with the deterioration of the credit market (not SIRI's fault), they're not going to sign any deals right this minute. You wouldn't want them to at 14%...nor do they want to. They'll wait until this crisis passes and the rates get better. They have a little time yet, no sense on rushing into a bad deal. I think overall too many people are expecting miracles and not allowing the company its due diligence to get everything that needs to be done, done.
Btw...Premarket and Afterhours = unreliable volitility (unless based on pertinent, actual released company news). Also, yesterday showed how much the Street is awaiting the refi news. The belief that deal "is going to happen" is the only thing preventing this stock from being .25 (similar to WS this week--if there were no promise of a bailout, the market would be tanking big time). There was anticipation of some refi news coming from the Deutsche Bank conference (though unrealistic because interest rates are way too high). So no news equals more fear and the stock was down in AA .04--classic stuff of rumor and conjecture. The bail-out f'up last night certainly doesn't help matters. I say give SIRI the next two months to get more done. By then, the near-term to-do list should be near all checked off--and showing better results for shareholders.
Good points you raise and exactly my point today. It's about the big picture not the trenches of today. And I also agree about this article. Old hat...
You say "SIRI investors...are myopic...and fail to look at the bigger picture..."
I'm pretty sure that's what I've looked at every day since $9.43 pps nearly four years ago. My view has led me to a gigantic profit on my (now nearly covered) short position.
You, my friend, are commiting the cardinal sin: YOU ARE ARGUING WITH THE TAPE.
Sorry Jeremy, I agree. As far as the MSFT speculation goes, I agree with everyone above. It seems like a shameless pump. Even if it happens, it will likely come at the expense of current shareholders again.
SIRI eventually making it is not tantamount to victory for current shareholders. The stock could go to $10 eventually, but existing shares will be worth on the order of 1/20 after the imminent dilution.
I am not arguing with the Tape, I am a Long investor who has improved his position in this company over time in the manner I described above. I refuse to have a Margin account because I do not want my shares lent to folks who are betting against my Long position and because I don't buy Stock on Credit. Again congratulation on your profits and time will tell on how my investment in this company plays out.
On Sep 26 11:57 AM jswede wrote:
> If MSFT, AAPL, GOOG or whomever come in with capital, exisiting shareholders
> are done. SIRI has zero leverage in a negotiation and WILL give away
> most all of its upside in a capital infusion.
>
> SIRI eventually making it is not tantamount to victory for current
> shareholders. The stock could go to $10 eventually, but existing
> shares will be worth on the order of 1/20 after the imminent dilution.
Burtbeck...I will ask you. Since you have made such a killing shorting out SIRI...why bother participating in this forum? Is it just to rub it in the face of most here who actually believe in the company and want to make their money in concert with the company's SUCCESS, NOT THEIR FAILURE? You obviously are banking on their failure. Being the corporate raider type you appear to be, I have to say, your need to be blogging puzzle's me...any insight?
Dumb article, and I didnt even read it. Dont care. Dont read dumb articles. Pure bs, and I hate nothng more than BS, as Im NOT Jim Cramer knows.
I'm not sure of the reason a decision was made to move to KPMG, but as a former KPMG employee who also worked a few years in Internal Audit, I know that a lot of times this decision is based more on who comes in with the lowest contract than it is on performance. The Big 4 firms are all essentially the same, a bunch of fresh faces right out of college doing slave grunt work testing controls for hard drinking partners. Whoever puts up the lowest price gets the contract. Unfortunately due to SOx, they now are a must have and own the external audit market.
Every one of my postings has been intended to give hard reasons why SIRI has been overpriced every day-- I am trying to save the 'Strong Buys' from foolishly wasting their money, as they have indeed done long term (I hope maybe some profits on short term trades).
And my posting today @ $0.78 pps is intended to save exactly that amount---as I said, I feel better than 50-50 chance $0.00 is on the horizon.
Religion? That's a pretty wild accusation and an obvious mis-interpretation of my comment. And, I didn't realize you were Burtbeck's spokesperson....
Definition of no life...
Websters.."I dont own any stock on this blog, Im not interested in buying it, but I post here daily." LOSER LOL LOL LOL Do you have a job? Or did you lose that on margin too.....
Thanks for the response but I didn't see any hard facts in your post. All I read was the killing you made shorting from $9 and that longs here aren't reading the tape right. And for the record, I don't begrudge anyone's decision to short a stock. What I was asking was a simple question about what brings someone who has shorted a stock from $9 down to .80 to that stock's blog. It just seems to me like a waste of time. It's not as if that person were looking for direction, confirmation or commiseration. Seems to me, most people taking the time to blog about a stock like SIRI (unarguably embattled, misunderstood and much maligned) would not be those confident the company will fail. Yes, anyone is entitled to give an opinion and I respect anyones right to do so. But Burtbeck, having said all of that, I read more flippancy in your post rather than trying to help anyone. And I don't really think anyone still long really needs saving at this point. They're, we're, in it to watch this stock turn right around and make a comeback. And IMO, that's exactly what it's going to do. Let's face it, the FCC mainly helped you get where you are today on your short position. If you built that into your decision to stay the course, then you were right, but it was just a guess. Had the FCC acted appropriately, you and others would be singing a different tune. You would have covered much earlier because the stock would be at least about $5-$6 right now. If you knew that SIRI would wind up having to do the convertible deal in the 11th hour, then you guessed right again. And no one is begrudging you your windfall. But like I said, I was just curious as to why someone who doesn't really care about the company and thinks it will fail (and when their profits are already in the bank from shorting it), would even bother to blog about the stock...it still doesn't make any sense to me but you gave me your answer and I appreciate it.
I know a little about the stock - I used to own it and was quite the bull until about 9 mos ago.
I've got a full head of hair and I sit behind a bloomberg, trading bonds. A little heavier than I'd like, I'll admit.
and I don't post here everyday. not close.
First, not short, fat, nor bald...so your on your own there...
Otherwise, appreciate your info. I have no right or reason to comment on your personal facts, but it just seems like your being a little hard on yourself. Like I have said, unless you were already short like Burtbeck, which one of us were prescient enough to know how SIRI would have to seal the merger deal. Those details were not immediately available to the average shareholder (which still pisses me off like it does all longs). Then, one morning the stock opened @ 2.29 and the next morning it opened at $1.50. And again, the details of the financing were not released. So rather than jump, averaging was the better answer. By the time the details were out, Mel was on TV scrambling to explain. Then he bought shares, then, then, then. And it looked like they would hold in around 1.30 but the next stop literally was here. Nothing you could have really done--as you say, this was not a tyical scenario for your (and most peoples) trading rules. So, whatever. I would just offer, since you're here, keep the faith that the best is yet to come. I'm also pretty sure the reason you don't sell right now is because you know it's all coming back. This is a classic case of "can you keep your head, when all about you are losing theirs" (R. Kipling).
Over the 4 years I've probably posted re SIRI about 100 times on Yahoo and these blogsites. At least 90% of these have rendered lengthy bearish analyses with more numbers than anyone wanted to read. I would spend lots of time and arithmetic putting these things together and two hours later the only maybe three responsive comments would be along the lines--"FU BURTBECK YOU GD BASHER".
This can be confirmed by Tyler Slattery, who someone told me, used to post as Doberman007 on Yahoo and with whom several years ago I did have a very occasional debate. Also of note is the quality of ignorant commentary on Yahoo gave me further incentive to increase my short position because those bidding up the price did not have a clue. And, to have the last word, I have all along been right.
Next while the deal is not done, it is been discussed as to what would be done and that it is not a problem, to the fact that it would not get done. It is more or less a terms issue not weather it gets done or not. As a example lets say you want to buy a house you have the cash to pay for it out right but do you finance 50% if you get a good rate or not. As to the May credit being extended, I agree as you know, dont even think for most this should be a issue, because it really is not. But that has really not been talked about. or been given the kind of confirmation that the Feb. converts have. While Mel has said they plain on extending them he has not shown the confedence that he has shown on the Feb. converts. That was the only point I was making, that it was more of a concern then the other.
Credit markets have seized up, WAMU, just went under, and the bail out plan has been thrown into the Presidential election.
I have built-in XM in one car and two mobile receivers currently turned on. I would like to turn one of the remotes off if I can get straight Sirius programming on my built-in XM.
But it looks like that isn't going to happen unless I pay extra. So I have to shut off my awsome built-in receiver and go back to fumbling around with my exrta mobile.
This company's stock has fallen under $1, but there still doesn't seem to be any sense of urgency to take care of, or even inform, existing customers of what's going on. The company doesn't even have useful information on either website. And why are there still two websites anyway? If I don't get some answers soon, I'm cancelling everything.
I have no problem with you and I never read your previous posts. And yes you have turned out to be right. BUT. In my estimation you've been right not because SIRI is a bad company and has mismanaged the company (which is mostly the reason stocks are successfully shorted from $9 - .80). You've been right largely due to the FCC f'ing up the deal--which then forced this ridiculous convertible deal SIRI had to make w/GS, et al. Once the extra shares were priced @ 1.50, with the hedge short on, the reality of today was sealed. That, sadly, was not known to individual investors until after the fact and had already started averaging down--there was little choice. Nor could you have known about for that matter. It just played right into your hand. Since individual investors can't short below $4, any short had to have been in already, taking the ride--as you were--betting the FCC would come though and screw up the deal--which they did. But any of you shorts couldn't have known how the financing deal was to be done (which is why the stock is where it is today). So to me, that's a lucky guess, which worked out in your favor--it could have easliy gone the other way given the right kind of financing. As said, the stock plunge wasn't based on that the company was bad or not growing, it was based on this merger and its components. Again, I don't begrudge you your windfall. That's the goal of any investor. This time you were right. But I'll look forward to chatting with you in a month or two....
For those that are still confused. As I and others and Mel have said before the Feb. converts will be taken care of using a cash on hand for half and a loan for the other half (150 million is what we are talking about getting financed in Feb., not a whole lot when put into prespective.). Next the May credit facility that is as I have said before, is ridiculous to even be worried about. The fact is it is not asking for more money it is asking for an extention by a company that has as of yet not missed one payment. Not to mention the people that are being asked, have a vested interest in the company succeeding besides the credit they have given them. Finally the Dec. 2009 converts once again Mel has said he does not foresee a problem because by then the company will be FCF positive and their credit will have improved greatly. Besides as I have said does it make any sense for people that have no insured investment on those coverts to take a company down (maybe getting pennies on the dollar) that is showing that it can pay you back in full at a latter date. It is not a policy of investors in converts to force a company into bankruptcy to get a small fraction back on the money loaned, unless they dont think the company will be able to pay them back. That is not the case looking at SIRI improving metrics even at this point. That for the matter gets me back to the converts back in Feb. which if you read what has been said, GS was more then happy and woulod make the most sense that they would like to do a reconvert at a better % and a better convert price who wouldn't they now have a covert price of somewhere in the 4s and a percentage of 1.75%. They would be able to get a convert price of something like .80 cents and most likely a better %. Mel has said that is not the way he wants to go.
People have got to remember if has only been a few weeks (cant even say a few months yet) since the merger. My god people have to give it some time, I would say 2 or 3 quarters at least, for god sake.
KBHomes--Bombed their quarter, and they were up over .30 cents today, while the overall market was down around 100 points.
Housing data all week was terrible.
Mortgage rates increased.
Company is bleeding REVENUE. And their stock closed up today. I would argue with that tape, sure I would. Especially if you watch level 2 and how it trades. You might even yell a little bit.
Who knows, one might almost throw his monitor, if he were so inclinded..... One just might!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...
I never thought the merger would help, and over the 1 1/2 years I posted many times that thought. My basic thought all along is that with the tens of billions of shares out (from 1.2B shares for SIRI in 2004 to about 3.2B shares SIRI/XMSR combined today) the market cap has ranged from $10+B down to over $2.5B today.
These astronomical numbers have been (un)supported by $BILLIONS of bottom line losses, same numbers for negative cash flows, rapidly decreasing growth rates in net sub adds enhanced by nearly spiking increases in churn, increasingly negative figures for working capital and stockholder equity, total dependence on the cooperarion of increasingly tough lenders in even tougher credit markets, no new programming enhancements, consumers looking for ways to cut their own overhead, a cooking of the books --see acct payable increases-- so that 4Q06 and 4Q07 positive cash flow could be bragged on, AND I COULD GO ON.
Would Warren Buffet pay the $BILLIONS that the market has said and still says this piece of s--- is worth?? No he wouldn't, and neither would I.
My comment about the JPMorgan thing was supposed to be poking fun at Loganthal about smelling another "Woo-Hoo" Coming. It was a bit late and I didn't refresh my page before i wrote it....but I did not mean I want JPM to buy SIRI.... lol
Good thought. When we look at the actual transactions coinciding with those huge bid/asks (100K, 250K, 300K), they're 100, 500, 1000, 100, 100, 200...then the huge blocks just disappear once the momentum is stoned.
Burtbeck...I wonder...do you watch a RT board and L2? Even though you benefit, I'm curious if you think SIRI stock is being manipulated? Or do you think that activity I just described above is A OK?
(To any longs seeing this info for the first time, disregard the protracted time-frame showing the comeback. This time around will be much, much different. The beginning numbers of course were all the time highs during the tech boom euphoria).
Date Volume High Low Open Close
03/01/00 671,100 69.4375 62.375 62.50 64.875
03/02/00 400,000 69.4375 59.50 62.50 61.8125...
......
07/15/02 721,800 3.54 3.30 3.38 3.50
07/16/02 356,700 3.53 3.30 3.40 3.411
07/17/02 1.44 M 3.50 3.26 3.45 3.49
07/18/02 754,300 3.45 3.15 3.40 3.20
07/19/02 1.92 M 3.14 2.73 3.13 2.79
07/22/02 1.04 M 2.90 2.46 2.69 2.53
07/23/02 2.14 M 2.54 1.95 2.51 2.08
07/24/02 1.31 M 2.00 1.70 1.96 1.86
07/25/02 2.12 M 2.15 1.76 1.85 1.879
07/26/02 1.4 M 1.98 1.55 1.92 1.60
07/29/02 1.13 M 1.94 1.65 1.75 1.84
07/30/02 1.59 M 2.20 1.82 2.02 2.20
07/31/02 905,956 2.26 2.05 2.25 2.05
08/01/02 750,100 2.19 1.90 2.10 2.00
08/02/02 664,031 2.14 1.92 2.02 1.96
08/05/02 880,684 1.96 1.75 1.90 1.779
08/06/02 677,875 1.907 1.65 1.84 1.66
08/07/02 624,100 1.89 1.70 1.83 1.71
08/08/02 561,174 1.80 1.65 1.79 1.78
08/09/02 304,539 1.88 1.78 1.83 1.80
08/12/02 1.56 M 2.15 1.81 1.95 2.07
08/13/02 3.87 M 2.25 1.26 2.11 1.32
08/14/02 10.12 M 1.02 0.68 0.96 0.76
08/15/02 9.03 M 1.56 0.70 0.71 1.44
08/16/02 2.87 M 1.50 1.20 1.47 1.22
08/19/02 1.93 M 1.22 1.00 1.15 1.10
08/20/02 1.49 M 1.26 1.09 1.12 1.2474
08/21/02 923,973 1.35 1.26 1.27 1.289
08/22/02 798,800 1.37 1.25 1.31 1.27
08/23/02 750,234 1.32 1.14 1.31 1.17
08/26/02 484,426 1.29 1.18 1.27 1.27
08/27/02 600,400 1.30 1.22 1.28 1.23
08/28/02 646,635 1.27 1.18 1.23 1.18
08/29/02 875,635 1.26 1.17 1.20 1.26
08/30/02 2.69 M 1.60 1.22 1.22 1.51
09/03/02 1.34 M 1.57 1.26 1.50 1.38
09/04/02 1.73 M 1.70 1.43 1.43 1.63
09/05/02 2.49 M 1.93 1.53 1.63 1.75
09/06/02 1.41 M 1.89 1.62 1.89 1.68
09/09/02 651,053 1.73 1.57 1.59 1.70
09/10/02 1.39 M 1.701 1.49 1.68 1.50
09/11/02 550,400 1.54 1.46 1.47 1.46
09/12/02 690,700 1.46 1.33 1.46 1.41
09/13/02 1.51 M 1.59 1.41 1.43 1.54
09/16/02 705,672 1.55 1.37 1.53 1.45
09/17/02 634,574 1.55 1.38 1.45 1.45
09/18/02 777,000 1.44 1.27 1.44 1.28
09/19/02 1.29 M 1.39 1.15 1.28 1.16
09/20/02 1.21 M 1.27 1.15 1.25 1.20
09/23/02 713,386 1.26 1.12 1.24 1.16
09/24/02 1.53 M 1.27 1.10 1.19 1.22
09/25/02 871,142 1.28 1.15 1.25 1.22
09/26/02 629,000 1.29 1.18 1.25 1.23
09/27/02 335,100 1.26 1.15 1.24 1.15
09/30/02 1.05 M 1.15 1.00 1.14 1.00
10/01/02 1.28 M 1.02 0.80 1.00 0.90
10/02/02 733,528 0.95 0.81 0.87 0.943
10/03/02 953,385 1.05 0.86 0.92 1.03
10/04/02 589,000 1.05 0.92 1.05 0.95
10/07/02 585,800 0.97 0.82 0.94 0.86
10/08/02 1.66 M 1.03 0.87 0.99 1.01
10/09/02 870,326 1.04 0.86 1.03 0.94
10/10/02 672,104 0.96 0.87 0.95 0.89
10/11/02 3.18 M 0.95 0.66 0.90 0.6877
10/14/02 1.75 M 0.839 0.72 0.75 0.82
10/15/02 1.72 M 0.88 0.71 0.85 0.76
10/16/02 1.21 M 0.85 0.71 0.76 0.84
10/17/02 7.56 M 1.44 0.75 0.87 1.32
10/18/02 15.41 M 1.06 0.78 1.04 0.89
10/21/02 5.59 M 0.86 0.75 0.86 0.77
10/22/02 3.18 M 0.77 0.68 0.77 0.69
10/23/02 2.11 M 0.74 0.66 0.67 0.7274
10/24/02 2.19 M 0.78 0.70 0.78 0.719
10/25/02 1.35 M 0.75 0.70 0.74 0.7499
10/28/02 2.31 M 0.83 0.75 0.77 0.79
10/29/02 2.76 M 0.85 0.78 0.82 0.80
10/30/02 1.76 M 0.83 0.80 0.81 0.82
10/31/02 2.91 M 0.92 0.81 0.82 0.909
11/01/02 2.14 M 1.00 0.90 0.91 0.99
11/04/02 3.97 M 1.19 1.01 1.06 1.06
11/05/02 2.1 M 1.13 1.04 1.09 1.12
11/06/02 2.39 M 1.17 1.09 1.16 1.11
11/07/02 1.59 M 1.12 1.00 1.12 1.01
11/08/02 1.69 M 1.05 0.91 1.02 0.94
11/11/02 1.31 M 0.94 0.85 0.94 0.87
11/12/02 1.43 M 0.92 0.85 0.90 0.92
11/13/02 1.07 M 0.92 0.87 0.92 0.89
11/14/02 2.99 M 0.92 0.79 0.91 0.82
11/15/02 6.22 M 0.89 0.66 0.71 0.88
11/18/02 2.5 M 0.90 0.78 0.89 0.82
11/19/02 1.28 M 0.85 0.78 0.80 0.82
11/20/02 1.84 M 0.84 0.76 0.82 0.80
11/21/02 1.07 M 0.82 0.76 0.79 0.77
11/22/02 1.87 M 0.79 0.72 0.77 0.75
11/25/02 2.74 M 0.84 0.75 0.76 0.84
11/26/02 5.52 M 0.98 0.85 0.86 0.90
11/27/02 1.73 M 0.92 0.82 0.92 0.86
11/29/02 799,931 0.87 0.81 0.82 0.86
12/02/02 1.4 M 0.91 0.81 0.86 0.85
12/03/02 2.76 M 0.85 0.79 0.85 0.799
12/04/02 1.32 M 0.80 0.75 0.80 0.78
12/05/02 2.98 M 0.85 0.75 0.78 0.81
12/06/02 821,576 0.81 0.76 0.80 0.79
12/09/02 2.11 M 0.78 0.72 0.76 0.72
12/10/02 1.79 M 0.75 0.71 0.72 0.73
12/11/02 2.67 M 0.73 0.70 0.73 0.72
12/12/02 1.65 M 0.72 0.67 0.71 0.68
12/13/02 2.25 M 0.71 0.65 0.71 0.661
12/16/02 1.45 M 0.67 0.61 0.66 0.63
12/17/02 1.78 M 0.64 0.55 0.63 0.58
12/18/02 1.38 M 0.58 0.54 0.57 0.54
12/19/02 3.61 M 0.65 0.53 0.61 0.58
12/20/02 2.41 M 0.59 0.53 0.58 0.54
12/23/02 3.67 M 0.57 0.53 0.56 0.54
12/24/02 1.49 M 0.58 0.53 0.54 0.541
12/26/02 1.39 M 0.55 0.50 0.53 0.52
12/27/02 4.06 M 0.60 0.46 0.51 0.60
12/30/02 2.29 M 0.60 0.50 0.60 0.56
12/31/02 4.24 M 0.65 0.56 0.56 0.64
01/02/03 2.25 M 0.65 0.60 0.64 0.61
01/03/03 1.17 M 0.61 0.58 0.61 0.60
01/06/03 1.62 M 0.64 0.59 0.60 0.629
01/07/03 6.43 M 0.85 0.61 0.62 0.82
01/08/03 5.56 M 0.88 0.74 0.82 0.761
01/09/03 4.43 M 0.81 0.72 0.79 0.78
01/10/03 1.78 M 0.84 0.77 0.81 0.81
01/13/03 1.49 M 0.84 0.78 0.81 0.79
01/14/03 23.92 M 1.29 0.79 0.79 1.26
01/15/03 40.59 M 1.62 1.10 1.25 1.37
01/16/03 12.42 M 1.44 1.20 1.32 1.25
01/17/03 9.18 M 1.24 1.10 1.14 1.17
01/21/03 6.86 M 1.25 1.15 1.17 1.18
01/22/03 15.07 M 1.42 1.181 1.181 1.268
01/23/03 8.64 M 1.44 1.26 1.27 1.30
01/24/03 4.77 M 1.33 1.22 1.32 1.27
01/27/03 5.11 M 1.25 1.07 1.23 1.09
01/28/03 11.08 M 1.10 0.94 1.09 1.06
01/29/03 3.46 M 1.05 0.95 1.03 1.03
01/30/03 5.89 M 1.19 1.02 1.03 1.12
01/31/03 5.83 M 1.24 1.14 1.19 1.16
02/03/03 3.44 M 1.25 1.10 1.25 1.11
02/04/03 3.21 M 1.12 1.01 1.12 1.03
02/05/03 6.34 M 1.03 0.93 1.03 0.95
02/06/03 5.41 M 0.96 0.85 0.96 0.86
02/07/03 3.3 M 0.952 0.88 0.92 0.90
02/10/03 3.03 M 0.97 0.898 0.91 0.91
02/11/03 2.79 M 0.933 0.84 0.91 0.88
02/12/03 2.94 M 0.88 0.81 0.88 0.819
02/13/03 4.02 M 0.83 0.73 0.819 0.74
02/14/03 3.13 M 0.76 0.72 0.74 0.76
02/18/03 11.66 M 1.00 0.87 0.95 0.93
02/19/03 5.76 M 0.95 0.85 0.93 0.85
02/20/03 4.18 M 0.92 0.84 0.85 0.88
02/21/03 4.47 M 0.92 0.87 0.91 0.88
02/24/03 3.15 M 0.93 0.87 0.90 0.88
02/25/03 7.06 M 0.89 0.81 0.89 0.84
02/26/03 4.94 M 0.84 0.75 0.84 0.78
02/27/03 7.81 M 0.82 0.76 0.78 0.77
02/28/03 6.72 M 0.79 0.74 0.78 0.76
03/03/03 4.1 M 0.81 0.77 0.79 0.80
03/04/03 10.01 M 0.81 0.709 0.80 0.7101
03/05/03 60.86 M 0.68 0.519 0.67 0.5301
03/06/03 53.02 M 0.603 0.476 0.56 0.49
03/07/03 31.24 M 0.50 0.47 0.50 0.475
03/10/03 46.91 M 0.54 0.49 0.53 0.495
03/11/03 33.05 M 0.51 0.44 0.50 0.45
03/12/03 19.7 M 0.47 0.40 0.46 0.41
03/13/03 46.19 M 0.44 0.40 0.41 0.42
03/14/03 23.48 M 0.45 0.389 0.42 0.41
03/17/03 47.77 M 0.491 0.40 0.41 0.44
03/18/03 42.58 M 0.47 0.44 0.46 0.45
03/19/03 74.32 M 0.54 0.44 0.47 0.53
03/20/03 89.4 M 0.64 0.56 0.58 0.59
03/21/03 83.34 M 0.65 0.56 0.6301 0.582
03/24/03 78.95 M 0.543 0.50 0.53 0.535
03/25/03 112.17 M 0.65 0.55 0.56 0.63
03/26/03 196.79 M 0.75 0.65 0.72 0.671
03/27/03 110.85 M 0.73 0.62 0.67 0.69
03/28/03 125.09 M 0.72 0.64 0.68 0.67
03/31/03 125.55 M 0.75 0.65 0.66 0.73
04/01/03 40.57 M 0.78 0.71 0.77 0.72
04/02/03 21.87 M 0.75 0.68 0.75 0.70
04/03/03 12.06 M 0.70 0.66 0.699 0.66
04/04/03 12.58 M 0.69 0.63 0.67 0.67
04/07/03 13.67 M 0.72 0.66 0.72 0.68
04/08/03 6.37 M 0.69 0.655 0.68 0.67
04/09/03 7.23 M 0.74 0.63 0.67 0.65
04/10/03 10.78 M 0.65 0.60 0.64 0.64
04/11/03 5.5 M 0.66 0.62 0.62 0.63
04/14/03 5.9 M 0.66 0.64 0.64 0.65
04/15/03 7.68 M 0.69 0.64 0.66 0.66
04/16/03 8.14 M 0.69 0.66 0.67 0.679
04/17/03 28.78 M 0.75 0.70 0.712 0.73
04/21/03 17.87 M 0.77 0.70 0.75 0.715
04/22/03 14.43 M 0.75 0.70 0.72 0.71
04/23/03 64.62 M 0.82 0.72 0.72 0.779
04/24/03 19.25 M 0.77 0.72 0.77 0.73
04/25/03 18.85 M 0.74 0.64 0.74 0.70
04/28/03 20.47 M 0.73 0.70 0.73 0.72
04/29/03 29.54 M 0.771 0.73 0.74 0.731
04/30/03 15.41 M 0.77 0.73 0.74 0.74
05/01/03 17.17 M 0.79 0.61 0.75 0.79
05/02/03 48.53 M 0.88 0.78 0.80 0.83
05/05/03 37.97 M 0.91 0.86 0.86 0.90
05/06/03 136.42 M 1.23 1.00 1.02 1.209
05/07/03 122.89 M 1.352 1.02 1.352 1.11
05/08/03 66.31 M 1.14 0.993 1.10 1.04
05/09/03 60.68 M 1.10 0.949 1.05 0.97
05/12/03 51.66 M 1.06 0.88 0.96 1.06
05/13/03 144.13 M 1.30 1.10 1.16 1.23
05/14/03 144.53 M 1.416 1.14 1.35 1.35
05/15/03 117.29 M 1.568 1.38 1.48 1.41
05/16/03 70.79 M 1.41 1.33 1.382 1.37
05/19/03 43.1 M 1.37 1.28 1.37 1.30
05/20/03 136.21 M 1.28 1.10 1.24 1.13
05/21/03 119.9 M 1.12 1.05 1.11 1.07
05/22/03 215.27 M 1.25 1.14 1.15 1.24
05/23/03 102.69 M 1.36 1.27 1.35 1.32
05/27/03 75.78 M 1.4201 1.31 1.34 1.39
05/28/03 91.64 M 1.46 1.38 1.44 1.39
05/29/03 59.18 M 1.43 1.32 1.41 1.35
05/30/03 133.44 M 1.60 1.45 1.50 1.60
06/02/03 274.65 M 2.11 1.70 1.83 1.95
06/03/03 254.9 M 2.37 2.02 2.17 2.35
06/04/03 266.24 M 2.393 2.036 2.09 2.09
06/05/03 221.96 M 2.21 1.95 1.988 2.06
06/06/03 95.18 M 2.25 2.00 2.249 2.15
06/09/03 78.28 M 2.191 2.05 2.16 2.05
06/10/03 89.8 M 2.12 1.96 2.12 2.02
06/11/03 77.87 M 2.11 1.99 2.08 2.05
06/12/03 61.06 M 2.09 1.99 2.08 2.01
06/13/03 141.22 M 2.00 1.798 1.97 1.85
06/16/03 142.45 M 1.86 1.64 1.80 1.78
06/17/03 96.77 M 1.97 1.81 1.82 1.92
06/18/03 50.7 M 1.97 1.88 1.96 1.89
06/19/03 61.19 M 1.92 1.77 1.91 1.80
06/20/03 50.02 M 1.85 1.72 1.83 1.73
06/23/03 90.84 M 1.84 1.61 1.759 1.78
06/24/03 65.2 M 1.77 1.68 1.74 1.70
06/25/03 43.7 M 1.77 1.65 1.69 1.66
06/26/03 70.68 M 1.70 1.60 1.67 1.61
06/27/03 51.31 M 1.71 1.63 1.66 1.66
06/30/03 49.18 M 1.74 1.64 1.73 1.69
07/01/03 53 M 1.71 1.60 1.68 1.70
07/02/03 50.3 M 1.78 1.68 1.71 1.775
07/03/03 48.76 M 1.85 1.72 1.75 1.844
07/07/03 63.51 M 1.92 1.76 1.88 1.76
07/08/03 37.11 M 1.81 1.71 1.759 1.77
07/09/03 35.15 M 1.88 1.77 1.81 1.84
07/10/03 40.89 M 1.845 1.79 1.83 1.82
07/11/03 24.72 M 1.85 1.80 1.84 1.82
07/14/03 32.97 M 1.87 1.80 1.84 1.81
07/15/03 26.82 M 1.84 1.755 1.82 1.777
07/16/03 28.44 M 1.82 1.73 1.80 1.74
07/17/03 35.08 M 1.73 1.65 1.71 1.67
07/18/03 24.4 M 1.71 1.638 1.68 1.705
07/21/03 17.01 M 1.72 1.65 1.70 1.68
07/22/03 26.91 M 1.70 1.66 1.69 1.67
07/23/03 21.87 M 1.68 1.61 1.67 1.63
07/24/03 18.99 M 1.69 1.63 1.66 1.65
07/25/03 12.08 M 1.66 1.6299 1.65 1.6313
07/28/03 66.82 M 1.89 1.62 1.64 1.89
07/29/03 53.48 M 1.94 1.80 1.928 1.81
07/30/03 37.51 M 1.83 1.73 1.80 1.77
07/31/03 19.93 M 1.84 1.77 1.81 1.78
08/01/03 21.93 M 1.83 1.78 1.81 1.806
08/04/03 57.24 M 1.95 1.84 1.85 1.92
08/05/03 102.25 M 2.06 1.90 1.95 1.95
08/06/03 88.84 M 1.87 1.70 1.78 1.709
08/07/03 133.75 M 1.71 1.40 1.67 1.53
08/08/03 38.85 M 1.68 1.55 1.55 1.62
08/11/03 16.31 M 1.71 1.638 1.67 1.66
08/12/03 33.04 M 1.72 1.64 1.67 1.70
08/13/03 18.84 M 1.71 1.65 1.69 1.671
08/14/03 22.88 M 1.685 1.63 1.669 1.65
08/15/03 5.48 M 1.68 1.62 1.64 1.64
08/18/03 22.13 M 1.66 1.60 1.66 1.6099
08/19/03 30.98 M 1.68 1.57 1.61 1.58
08/20/03 23.03 M 1.59 1.54 1.59 1.55
08/21/03 17.11 M 1.61 1.56 1.57 1.57
08/22/03 20.19 M 1.62 1.58 1.60 1.585
08/25/03 13.92 M 1.62 1.58 1.60 1.58
08/26/03 15.84 M 1.59 1.56 1.58 1.58
08/27/03 14.46 M 1.60 1.57 1.57 1.60
08/28/03 28.53 M 1.69 1.59 1.599 1.66
08/29/03 19.88 M 1.72 1.66 1.67 1.66
09/02/03 35.23 M 1.64 1.57 1.595 1.62
09/03/03 48.47 M 1.73 1.64 1.64 1.646
09/04/03 18.37 M 1.695 1.66 1.68 1.665
09/05/03 21.94 M 1.69 1.63 1.67 1.66
09/08/03 22 M 1.68 1.65 1.67 1.68
09/09/03 70.72 M 1.81 1.67 1.67 1.77
09/10/03 27.64 M 1.78 1.70 1.77 1.71
09/11/03 22.27 M 1.75 1.67 1.72 1.72
09/12/03 21.37 M 1.72 1.67 1.71 1.68
09/15/03 22.79 M 1.72 1.67 1.70 1.69
09/16/03 21.57 M 1.71 1.67 1.68 1.68
09/17/03 94.5 M 1.94 1.72 1.725 1.84
09/18/03 53.03 M 1.922 1.79 1.89 1.84
09/19/03 82.78 M 2.04 1.95 1.97 1.98
09/22/03 32.79 M 1.96 1.85 1.95 1.95
09/23/03 43.52 M 2.02 1.96 1.96 2.016
09/24/03 56.85 M 2.08 1.91 2.03 1.94
09/25/03 31.03 M 2.00 1.88 2.00 1.92
09/26/03 41.07 M 1.93 1.768 1.91 1.79
09/29/03 30.35 M 1.852 1.76 1.85 1.85
09/30/03 26.16 M 1.87 1.79 1.86 1.82
10/01/03 29.5 M 1.89 1.83 1.84 1.85
10/02/03 29.8 M 1.92 1.85 1.91 1.90
10/03/03 29.68 M 1.96 1.86 1.93 1.87
10/06/03 21.82 M 1.90 1.84 1.90 1.865
10/07/03 19.41 M 1.871 1.84 1.86 1.87
10/08/03 34.9 M 1.98 1.87 1.88 1.95
10/09/03 38.64 M 2.02 1.91 1.98 1.938
10/10/03 86.96 M 2.08 1.90 1.97 2.07
10/13/03 114.25 M 2.29 2.10 2.10 2.28
10/14/03 106.27 M 2.44 2.28 2.30 2.33
10/15/03 78.03 M 2.33 2.17 2.32 2.192
Once they start posting profits, very soon, and climb out of debt they will either be successful independently or a major like Microsoft will buy them up realizing the huge potential for new synergistic applications and tech with such a large built in base.
Relax, trust trust trust me, this one is a big winner long.
sl62--You ask whether I think MANIPULATION has occured. There probably are very isolated instances, but in my long investment career I learned it is extremely difficult to influence the price of a stock whose average daily volume for 3 months is nearly 64 million shares and where there are several dozen NASDAQ market makers. Hanky -panky is much easier the lower the number in these two categories.
How To Work Around A Market Maker's Tricks
by Glenn Curtis
Trick #1: Giving Phony Sizes
Nasdaq market makers, routinely take positions in stocks, both long and short, and then turn them around for a profit, or a loss, later in the day. They provide liquidity, but they are also more focused on capitalizing on your lot of stock by buying it for their own trading account and then flipping it to another buyer. In any case, market makers will sometimes post phony sizes in order to lure you into buying or selling a stock.
The market maker may show a big offer of say 10,000 shares. Brokers see this, think that the market maker is looking to unload a big block of stock, and quickly sell their shares at the bid price...
Note on this subject: While actions such as this may be frowned upon by the National Association of Securities Dealers (NASD) - they are still fairly common in practice.
I have no problem with you. Obviously we are on two sides of the SIRI story, which can make things contentious sometimes. You made some good coin on the way down...that's cool. I and others will be doing the same on the way back up--at the end of the day, a good story for all of us.
SEC is a joke, this manipulation is a joke, and blah blah blah. I know, you know, we all know(except for Mr. Ive been investing in the markets for 20 years and see it rarely, ya right. I watch it every second of the day, from how news reports are released, the spin on those reports, keeping the public ingnorant on simple things like TA corrections, bankrupcies, etc...
Wall Street is a game, and right now your playing the Sirius game. You want to win? Know the rules, and their arent any. The stock will go up and down, and probably against MSM sentiment(MSM=main street media, market, etc..) I am VERY excited today to see GS downgrade the target price for this stock. I am also very happy to see a lot of analysits taking the stock target price down. I still need to see those buy rating turn to holds or sells before I would be comfortable seeing a long uptrend. Too many good articles about Sirius this week, I knew it would go down. Why I sold 1/6 of my stock at .91 cents and am still looking to rebuy them. I will get my buy in under $2(thank you, and when it is in the 1.somethign I will no longer feel like such an idiot. You dont have to stare at your losses, you can be proactive and do soemthing about them. Its a gamble, but geez, wasnt buying this stock in the first place? Averaging down is fine, but selling and rebuying lower doesnt increase your $ invested. While averaging down helps your buy in, it increases your total amount spent. Selling and buying can lower your buy in amount of money spent, while decrease your buy in at the same time. It takes large chunks at a time if you want to get anywhere(I recommend seperating your stock into 6ths or 5ths to play with. 1/6 should be traded everyweek at least, selling high, buying low, until you buy in is at where you want it. Before Q4 my goal is to get my buy in from 2.37, now 2.11 but I still have to rebuy 1/6 of my shares(going much lower), to 1.50. Thats the price I can sleep at night at, and know if they sell , it will be for at least that price.
In your cogitations re market price manipulation, do not forget that for every single share bought, there is one sold--- and I am not aware of any "fails to deliver" with SIRI clearings. The two parties are at cross purposes to one another--true manipulation requires them to be in cahoots.
Btw, I had listed most active MM's before for SIRI and no coincidence maybe the most active (serving up those huge blocks) is NSDQ (Nasdaq Execution Services). So if anyone thinks that the NASD cares about NSDQ manipulating stock price and orders, guess again. Like you said relmor, it's a game. That's why we've told people not to jump. Part of the game is to get as many small investors to jump as possible. It's easy for MM's and they get a kick out of it....that's why time is the key. Time arbitrage. Once the MM's have you, it's a standoff of who can wait the longest. And they know when a certain amount of small investors have piled in. Once that happens, they are going to take you underwater to see how long you can hold your breath. If you can out-wait them, they will let you take a ride with them and make some money. If not, they want to and will crush you, drown you--and then laugh at you at the bar over drinks that night. Think of the MM's as "the House" Vegas. The last thing they want you to do is make money that either they could make or that they are trying to make for the companies whose stock they are repping. But you can, if you know the game. Anyone's best hope obviously is to always be in stocks where larger players either are already, or show up to while you're there. That's who the MM's will make money for and groove the stock--their buddies. If you are lucky to be there, right place right time, like a parasite, they will also let you take the ride. If you are unlucky and buy into a stock where few of their buddy's are, you will be very lonely being drowned and beaten to a pulp everyday, day in, day out. That's Wall Street.
I hope you get your average relmor. I hope all you guys (and girls) can make some money from these bad boys. Not easy, but for now we have to count on Mel to bring some pain to these guys with some positive news. I think he will deliver.
Yes, 1 for 1 but it all depends who those 1 and 1's are. When it's MM to MM, there is where the price can be manipulated and SIRI has plenty of that going on at this stage. Probably executive orders from GS. They want this stock going down as far as it possibly can for their hedge. What shares were they given to short, 133M? Well, every .10 = 13M for them. That's why they beat the stock back at 1.00. The only thing that will save it from going to .25 is if SIRI counters with news--which is coming. That's exactly what Mel said on his appearance on Mad Money to JC. He said, "well then I'm just going to have to disappoint the short" when Cramer said there was nothing Mel could do to stop the hedge. So, it's on Mel to stop the bleeding. Which, I know you could care less about (lol)...
I just thought of something else on the manipulation that makes perfect sense. Do you remember when SIRI actually closed at 1.00? Were you watching the board up to the very last trade at the bell? Interesting, I just remembered I thought it odd that MM's would let the last trade be 1.00 since right at that time, bid/ask was like .9995/.9998 or something. Then very last trade the 1.00 popped in--and it was the only close at or about 1.00... Well guess what that was all about? They want to keep the stock down but they don't want SIRI to be delisted. The rules for Nas delisting are: If a stock closes below $1 for 30 days in a row, the company will be notified it faces being delisted. Then, to avoid actually being delisted, the company's shares must close above $1 for 10 days in a row of the next 90 days. But that was part of the deal with GS. Under NO circumstances will SIRI be allowed to be delisted or even get a notice. So that means until SIRI has their new s#@! together, and while GS and others are making their $13M per .10, they will be allowed to close at a buck at least once every 30 days.
Btw...someone else asked about being delisted. First, SIRI will not be delisted while they are in play here. Second, for any company that is delisted, it's not exaclty the end of the world (if they are a decent company). All that would happen is they would go to the OTC.BB exchange and their shareholders follow and trade there. OTC.BB is not a horrible exchange but of course it's not NAS. Then if the price can get back over a dollar organically, the company can apply for reinstatement to NAS. No biggie. Most companies won't even let that happen though. If they can't get back to 1.00 on Nas, they will just f their shareholders and reverse to keep them there. Then of course, they will be shorted right back down and have to deal with it all over again eventually...cat and mouse.
This is a Wild topic, and i'm just thinking outside the box here.
On Saturday (Today) at 11a.m EST. There is a congressional vote on Royalty Fees for Pandora... Do you guys think that which way this vote goes would adversely affect SIRIUS/XM at all??
I Gotcha, I was just clarifying myself....
It looks like the puzzle pieces are all nearly in place--I appreciate all your observations and initiative--you started this whole investigation and were right on the money...For those who are concerned about SIRI going out of biz or stock going to 0 (excluding shorts of course), you should actually take solace in the fact that GS is in SIRI's picture. GS wants to make money--they don't want to put SIRI out of business. Don't forget, Mel cut a DEAL with GS. As in any deal, there are negotiations about the terms, how things will go. Mel K. has a rep for being one of the fiercest negotiators on the planet--hence his success. Yes, GS got the better deal this time and Mel has had to eat some
s%#! for a little while, but if anyone thinks Mel didn't get at least a few licks in on GS, you're mistaken. One of those is GS's guarantee that they will not let the company delist (which we also know by one of the main MM's being NSDQ itself--and remember SIRI is a CASH COW for Nasdaq MM's)--hence you will see spikes back up to and a close at at least 1.00 at least once every 30 days while the rest of things play out. Whatever that "play out" time frame is we don't know. We have all been watching the "deal" in play. Wall Sireet calls it En Fuego (spanish for in-play) They don't count on people like relmor actually paying attention to the day to day. When you do, it almost puts you in the negotiation meeting itself. We can now see what was agreed to on both sides. Also the negative pub...more of the deal. GS put out the order that key media sources (in GS's pocket) flood the market with negative articles about bankruptcy, stock going to 0, etc...you name it, we've seen it. All that was, was to help people jump and give their money to GS and to help take the stock down (remember GS makes 13M every .10 down). So..doing the math...the bogus shares were priced at 1.50. Stock is now let's say .80. That's 13M x 7. That's at least a cool 91M profit so far for GS, if not more, if they've been playing the swings, which they most likely have..Not bad for the short-term financing they gave SIRI. And you also have MS and UBS doing similar but not as much profit as GS. Like I said, SIRI = CASH COW. Cash cows are not taken out back and shot for hamburger.
Nothing against you at all and if you really are a millionaire, you've got way more money than I do... but I would only suggest you rethink your strategy about putting this stock in a drawer for years. My reasons are: 1. SATRAD is SLOWLY on it's way to becoming a new standard (replacing FM), but that is years away yet and will still most likely have to fend off other technology in the future. So, like the original SIRI, there will continue to be volatility for years to come...meaning, the stock will be very tradable. 2. I think SIRI will also always be one of those companies that Wall Street will not let off easy, ever. For various reasons, it always has been a company WS has loved but also hated. This will also ensure high volatility and even in several years, you still won't know if something will cause the stock to take a good haircut. So keeping an eye on this investment will be nothng but a good idea. And 3. The days of buy and hold and come back in about 5 years, are over (IMHO). Just ask GM. Anyway, my two cents...
Nice try.
Konst...
Since you have your slide ruler and calculator handy...please check out a chart from Sept. '05 - June '08 (when the stock price I would guess averaged roughly at 4.00/share) and tell me SIRI's numbers then (and your professional analysis of course). Thanks!
Well This Might Be SIRIUS?, No problem
AIG was trading at 20 dollars days before its collapse. You see, Konst, thats how it works. Stocks dont trade at .05 cents for 1 year and then collapse(not usually(unknown stocks might)). They trade at incredible ludicrious prices, and then collapse, quickly, before you can pull your shares. So if this stock is being held down to FORCE bankrupcy, then it would be a hedge fund raid of mass manipulation(3 billion shares, hard to do with that much float). Since I wont discuss this stock as unmanupulated, you want me to believe in the unbelieveable. You words have been discarded in the trash pile, thats for stopping by.
I fogot to ask...before you move on...can you also please dig up another (one will be fine) spec stock (which being a professional, I'm sure you know SIRI is) that trades at its P/E multiple? A big thanks! I'll look forward to your info.
I can give you a million examples of P/E ratios being a joke. They are SOOOOOO varied, there is no way to go by that. Depends on the perception of their forward value. A company going bankrupt should trade wwaaayyy below book value, after all, its going bankrupt right. Yet by your own logic you proof that is actually trading above its book value for YEARS. So now all of a sudden this stock has to follow rules? Its never been FURTHER from bankrupcy than today, fool.
EN JUEGO= in play
Mergers and buyouts are unpredictable just look back to the ZAYRE and AMES departments stores and neither company remains and stock holders lost everything.
Thanks for the info on delisting and remaining alive in the stock arena sl62. PE numbers really do not mean a thing in the present day activity.
............
>>>>>&g...
SAVE YOUR INVESTMENT>> BUY A SUBSCRIPTION TO SIRIUS! TELL A FRIEND!
ah yes, my mistake....god, Zayre. I remember those guys. They were the KMart of the 70's.
Mergers can indeed be tricky. Obviously SIRI is in a whole other space than your example--unique--combi... original content, programming, entertainment, information, all wrapped up in a tech play and delivered to the masses. They have their work cut out but once the new entity is squared away, sky's the limit. Their sub base and content makes them powerful. Plenty of opportunity ahead for this company. Wall Street has proven their interest and confidence in the space, and the company, for a solid number of years ('04-'08). So it's not like they're starting from scratch. Mergers that fail or any company that fails is only as a result of one thing: BAD MANAGEMENT. Not the case here. SIRI's hit some headwinds, not of their own doing. FCC screwed 'em because of their allgience to NAB and now bad timing with the credit crunch...but SIRI will overcome despite, because they have GOOD MANAGEMENT. It means everything.
Still awaiting your examples of spec stocks that trade at low P/E mulitples and your "pro" analysis of SIRI's P/E from '05-'08. Hmmm. All us >>"kids who can't do basic math and focus on the f--cking share price"<< can't wait for your genius input. Thank you.