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Almost Family, Inc. (NASDAQ:AFAM)

Q3 2012 Earnings Conference Call

November 06, 2012 11:00 a.m. ET

Executives

Nick Laudico – Investor Relations

William Yarmuth – Chairman & CEO

Steve Guenthner – President & Principal Financial Officer

Analysts

Brian Tanquilut – Jefferies

Kevin Campbell – Avondale Partners

Kevin Ellich – Piper Jaffray

Whit Mayo - Robert W Baird

Operator

Greetings and welcome to the Almost Family Incorporated Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. A brief question-and-answer session will follow the formal presentation. (Operator Instructions). As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Mr. Nick Laudico of The Ruth Group. Thank you, Mr. Laudico. You may begin.

Nick Laudico

Thanks, operator. Joining us on the call today are William Yarmuth, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; and Steve Guenthner, President and Principal Financial Officer.

Before we begin, let me remind listeners that our statements other than statements of historical facts included in this conference call are forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Forward-looking statements may be identified by the use of forward-looking terminology such as may, will, expect, believe, estimate, project, anticipate, continue or similar terms, variations of those terms or the negative of those terms.

These forward-looking statements are based on the company’s current plans, expectations and projections about future events. Because forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties, the company’s actual results could differ materially from any future results, performance or achievements expressed or implied by such forward-looking statements.

The potential risks and uncertainties, which could cause actual results to differ materially include: regulatory approvals or third-party consents may not be obtained, the impact of further changes in healthcare reimbursement systems, including the ultimate outcome of potential changes, Medicare reimbursement for home health services and to Medicaid reimbursement due to state budget shortfalls; the ability of the company to maintain its level of operating performance and achieve its cost control objectives; changes in our relationships with referral sources; the ability of the company to integrate acquired operations; including obtaining synergies, integration objectives and anticipated timelines; government regulation; healthcare reform; pricing pressures from Medicare, and Medicaid and other third-party payers; changes in laws and interpretations of laws relating to the healthcare industry; and the company’s self-insurance risks.

For a more complete discussion regarding these and other factors which could affect the company’s financial performance, refer to the company’s various filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including its filing on Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2011, in particular information under the headings “Special Caution Regarding Forward-Looking Statements” and “Risk Factors.” The company undertakes no obligation to update or revise its forward-looking statements.

With that I’d like to turn the call over to William.

William Yarmuth

Thanks Nick and thank you all for joining us today on our third quarter 2012 conference call. Before we get into the details of the quarter, let me briefly summarize very positive news we received, as it relates to the SEC investigation and a shareholder law suit.

SEC staff has informed us that they have concluded their investigation which began in 2010 as a part of a cascade events arising from an article on the Wall Street Journal, and have decided to recommend the Commission take no action against Almost Family or any of its Officers and Directors.

We’ve have been cooperating with the Commission on this investigation over this two year period and are extremely pleased that our continued track record of sound compliance has resulted in this outcome.

Additionally in another of these cascading events, Kentucky State Court has granted our motion for dismissal of the shareholder derivative law suit against the company and its Directors.

We are extremely proud of our management and caregivers, who never let these situations distract them from their senior advocacy mission of providing the best care possible to patients’ everyday. I want to sincerely thank our caregivers for their commitment and dedication through these challenging enquiry as we put them behind us.

Moving to the quarter, I feel good about the progress we’ve made on the initiatives. We recently outlined to investors during our last call. While operating in a challenging environment both from a rate pressure perspective and from the standpoint of continued slowing in healthcare utilization overall, we moved more focus to driving organic growth while maintaining a diligence on the control of our cost.

As you recall, last quarter we recognized a need to shift our focus more toward driving organic admission following a period of heavy focus on cost controls. On one hand, we’re very pleased with our ability to maintain these controls. They have produced results that have helped to partially offset in incredibly difficult rate environment, mitigating our margin erosion to some degree and producing significant contributions to our operating margin.

Our regional managers have proven they can improve our efficiencies while operating in the challenging environment. On the other hand, we made some initial progress achieving the balance we are striving for, bringing a greater focus on driving organic volume growth.

Since we reported our second quarter, we filled open sales position, placed people in markets where they were needed and sharpen the overall focus of our sales team. While we are encouraged with this progress, today it remains early in the process of fine tuning the business to a level that produces measurable and consistent improvement to our organic growth rate.

We feel confident that as they gain traction over the next several quarters, we will expand referrals and grab volumes at a measured pace. We look forward to reporting our progress to you over the next several quarters as we move into 2013.

Our momentum is moving in the right direction, which gives us confident that we’ve made the right decision and we’re maintaining the current scores. While we began to experience this initial momentum, the Northern region of our business was impacted by the shift of a portion of our Medicare advantage business from episodic reimbursement to per visit reimbursement structure. As you probably heard elsewhere the shift represents a phenomenon in the industry that has begun to accelerate recently.

As contracts with managed care organizations get renegotiated, our Medicare advantage business which represents about 7.5% of our overall visiting nurse admission, are being converted from episodic reimbursement to a per visit reimbursement rate which carries a lower margin. By contrast Medicare advantage represents about 27% of the overall US Medicare population.

To-date about half of our Medicare advantage business has been converted from episodic to pay per visit reimbursement. Looking forward investors should take in the lower margin implications they saw this quarter to their estimate. Our PC business continues to make incremental but meaningful contributions to overall business and we continue to look for opportunities to expand this service line.

Long-term our business fundamentals remain extremely strong. The demographics of the elderly population are in our favor and it remains a consistent need for our healthcare system to utilize the lowest cost study and provide the best possible care to patient. Given these fact and demographics, our strong management team and more than 9000 experienced caregivers, we remain as confident as we have been about the long-term prospects of our business.

As you follow our progress over the next few quarter you should expect us to focus our efforts on the following areas, improved and measurable organic admission growth, sustained cost controls to mitigate rate pressures in slowing utilization, continued contributions from our personal care service line and diligent focus on potential acquisition.

I’d now like to turn the call over to Steve for his portion of this presentation.

Steve Guenthner

Thanks, William. By now all of you should have received our earnings release. We also filed our 10-Q this morning. I’d like to touch on some highlights, and then we’ll move to the Q&A.

Our diluted earnings per share for the quarter were $0.44 as compared to $0.52 for the same quarter of last year. During the second quarter, we incurred about $0.02 of M&A related costs are related to the two small transactions we completed and one larger one that we did not get done, without which EPS would have been about $0.46.

Total revenues were just a touch over $85 million. Visiting Nurse Segment revenues were $66 million on 2% admission growth overall, including about 5% admission growth in Florida. In our Personal Care Segment, net revenues grew to $19 million from a combination of the Cambridge acquisition and about 5% organic volume growth outside of Cambridge.

With regard to earnings per share, EPS was down about $0.08 over the same quarter last year with a $0.17 negative impact from the 2012 Medicare rate cut, and about $0.03 negative impact from a shift in certain managed, Medicare advantage plans from episodic to reimbursement. The two items combine for $0.20 negative, EPS was down about $0.08, so we have about $0.12 positive from other factors.

In the Visiting Nurse Segment, our efforts to improve our operational efficiencies, predominately reducing our labor cost added about $0.17 a share, and in our Personal Care Segment added about a penny of share. Against that we had year-over-year and favorable employee benefit cost for about $0.03 and about a penny each from lower bad debt provision and all other items combined.

Within the Visiting Nurse Segment, we had small total admissions growth of about 2%, a decline in Medicare episodic admissions, substantially all of which came from a change in which certain Medicare advantage plan change from paying episodically to paying on a per visit basis. Our research rate was flat between periods.

In Florida, our Visiting Nurse total admissions grew about 5%, and Medicare admissions grew about 3% on year-over-year basis. This is the second consecutive quarter of positive admissions growth in Florida.

In the North, our VN total admissions shrink just under 1% and Medicare admissions shrink about 6% on a year-over-year basis. A shift to significant Medicare advantage plans episodic to per visit reimbursement caused about 4 percentage points to the decline. Even without this change our Medicare admissions were still been down about 2% year-over-year in the north, which is very similar to our results last quarter.

As I mentioned in our Personal Care segment, most of the improvement in PC operations from the third quarter of last year was a result of the inclusion in Cambridge for three months this year and two months in the same quarter last year.

Turning to the balance sheet and cash flows. Accounts receivable DSO was about 52 days at the end of the third quarter of 2012 compared to 50 days at the end of the second quarter of 2012 and 46 days at the end of the last year. This increase is primarily related to slower VN claims processing internally as our folks adapt to doing work with lower staffing levels as we’ve discussed in the past.

Third quarter operating cash flow was $6.1 million compared to net income of 4.1 million due primarily to the timing and amount of income tax payments, best in cash flows consisted of $0.5 million of capital expenditures, while we use another $0.5 million on too small acquisitions.

Our balance sheet at September 30, 2012 reflected cash on hand of about $43 million, up $5 million from the second quarter of 2012, and up about $9 million on year-to-date basis. Total receivables were 48.1 million, up $200,000 from the second quarter. We had no outstanding balance on our revolving credit facility. Net of insurance letters of credit about $98 million was fully available for use.

Total assets were $264 million including about $153 million of goodwill and intangibles, our book equity was about $219 million.

I’d also like to point out that in our earnings release and 10-Q both we did highlight for investors, they need to be cautious with regard to expectations for the fourth quarter due to the potential impact of Hurricane Sandy on our North Eastern operations in New Jersey, Connecticut and Massachusetts, which account for about 25% of our VN segment operations. We are not currently able to predict the extent if any, of the impact of that weather event on our results, but it is reasonable to expect that the event could have a detrimental impact on our operating results for the quarter end, for the year end. William?

William Yarmuth

Thanks, Steve. Operator, we will now open the call for questions.

Question-and-Answer Session

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now be conducting a question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions). Our first question is from Brian Tanquilut with Jefferies. Please go ahead.

Brian Tanquilut – Jefferies

Good morning, guys. Steve, just a question for you or William, you guys talked about how we are going to see more non-episodic revenue. Is there anything you can do operationally to adjust – whether it’s like say labor or anything that you can talk about as a way to adapt to that change we should be expecting going forward?

William Yarmuth

Well, there is a little bit that can be done. I think as we proceed through the next couple of quarters, we are probably going to try to be a lot more refined in our thought process around managed care. As most people probably know, managed care programs tend to value home care less than the traditional Medicare program.

And as a result they pay less, mostly because frankly they can’t, because there are competitors willing to do it for a lower price. And, our overall strategy towards being as efficient an operator as we can, is pretty important to I guess essentially lowering the amount of damages done from these programs. And then also we’re always looking for ways to sort of contain this kind of program.

We typically have very different levels of penetration of managed care into our business, market-to-market. So this is as I think William said about 7.5% of our admissions are in this Medicare Advantage world, well that’s probably lower than an off a lot of people in home care, because we’ve tried to be very selective where we do that. So that’s probably the primary mitigation approach there.

Brian Tanquilut – Jefferies

Okay. And then we’ve heard a lot about hospitals and the issues that they are facing and how that strategically could tie at home health. Just wondering if you guys are – what’s your strategy is going-forward in terms of partnering of hospitals or just how to take advantage of that potential opportunity?

William Yarmuth

Brian this is William.

Brian Tanquilut – Jefferies

Hello.

William Yarmuth

We – that part of the delivery system is changing and some people think its changing what could be then, then other. The pace at which its going to change is – is we found is different in different parts of the country, but we do believe that there is – there will be change and we’re working with hospitals, with a lot of organizations that are positioning themselves to be a part of the delivery system going forward. And will – and we have developed programs or implementing programs that we think will be valuable in helping hospitals especially deal with the change and reimbursement they are facing today. And we’re facing a more expensive way over the next few years.

Brian Tanquilut – Jefferies

Okay. Got it. All right. Thanks guys.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question is from Kevin Campbell of Avondale Partners. Please go ahead.

Kevin Campbell – Avondale Partners

Good morning. Thanks for taking my question. Just one quick one on the Medicare advance plan, can you give us a sense of magnitude in terms of the difference in margins between that and your normal Medicare patient?

Steve Guenthner

Sure. The – probably the best way to answer that Kevin is to think about the reimbursement dollars first. The – most of these managed care contracts once they are on a per visit basis, somewhere around $0.70 on the dollar on the Medicare rate, the Medicare reimbursement on it – on a case. So that comes in two form, one is a rate per visit and the other is in much stricter or very, very tight control by the managed care organization over the number of visits. Almost to the point of being disrupted to the care plan frankly.

So they case managed the hack out of process and try to constraint the number of visits to the lowest possible number of visit, which in our view, and I think probably in the view of others, probably some others in the industry constraints our ability to do the best thing that we can for the patient. But that should probably – that difference in reimbursement ratio probably give you some sense of margin difference.

Kevin Campbell – Avondale Partners

All right. So if you are – well I’ll come back to that. The M&A environment, so you mentioned that you closed two smaller deals and you have one that – larger one that didn’t get done. Can you maybe talk just a little bit generically about the M&A environment and then the deal that didn’t get done can you give some color on it and maybe why – maybe you can’t give a specific but I know there is a lot of questions about seller’s expectations and things like that, so can you maybe talk about that as well.

Steve Guenthner

Sure. The macro environment in our view is not really much different than we’ve talked about for the past several quarters, which is why generally we haven’t seen much transaction volume by anybody really. The valuation issues associated with the visiting nurse business given uncertainties around elections and fiscal cliffs and rebasing outcomes continue and frankly I don’t have any real expectation that that deal flow is really going to change until there is better clarity around that.

So the kinds of transactions that you do see really are where people have reached a point in their ownership of the business whether they are founder operators, public – excuse me – private equity or other maybe even some other strategic that they are looking to divest to the part of their business. They’ve got some other really compelling reasons to do, what they are doing. And so there is some flow of transactions out there. As William said in his prepared comments, we’re also evaluating personal care transactions. We are generally trying to follow our densification strategy of trying to be able to do both of our service lines in the service territory that we occupy and trying to be a size in those service territories. So our geographic focus remains fairly concise.

Our approach to diligence remains very disciplined and from time-to-time over the years, you’ve seen us come across transactions that we undo because we saw something in the diligence work that created a problem for us and we weren’t able to overcome it either through valuation or structuring in the transaction. So that’s our primary reason for not doing deals, when we don’t do them and you’ll continue to see us to be fairly disciplined in that regard. William, do you want to comment?

William Yarmuth

Sure, thanks. Kevin, I think from our perspective, relative to M&A, I am sure you all are tired of hearing us say, well the horizons are little clear. The horizons are little clear and pretty soon we’re going to know what reality is and then something else pops up, but truly I believe with rebasing coming sometime next year, we are increasing our activities and our interest in pursuing transactions in the VM side of our business that we think will help us move towards really sort of get back to where we were a few years ago and our attempt to concentrate, densify our current geography. So, I’m actually very optimistic that we’re going to be far more active in the coming years – coming year; I won’t say years, coming year in finding transactions that we think will make sense.

At the same time, we have expanded our look at Personal Care opportunities in the same geography that we think will be there and be available for us to capitalize on, not with any specific period of time, but certainly in the near future, because we believe that that is in the long run with the way healthcare is going, the prospect not knowing where the presidential election is going to come out but with the prospects of where the delivery systems go, and that our Visiting Nurse and Personal Care businesses in a concentrated geographic area are going to be an offering that will be very attractive to any payer whether it’s the government or accountable care organizations or hospitals or managed care organization.

Kevin Campbell – Avondale Partners

That’s helpful. The one last thing I wanted to ask about that Medicare advantage. So you said your – 7.5% of your admissions for Medicare advantage versus sort of the nationwide population of 27%. So I guess my question is, can you keep it that low at 7.5%, or do you think over time it has to migrate upward, and therefore there is potential pressures from that as well.

William Yarmuth

Well, there’s kind of two answers to that question. The first one is we probably won’t be able to keep at that level but we will strive to keep it at that level as long as reimbursement from the managed care organizations remains the same. One of the things that that’s a moving – that’s always a sort of a cyclical kind of approach that managed care has taken.

Right now its moving – years ago was all pay per visit and then be it for whatever reason managed care decided that they couldn’t meet the needs of the patients that they were managing or that they – they were rolling in the home but they needed to pay some sort of pay it episodically because they were getting better outcomes and better results. They are now moving to a period of this pay per visit, which you know we’ll probably be with us for a while, but it will probably also change in the future. They – and so we will evaluate Medicare advantage programs based upon how it will work with us in our business and where we need to do it, we will do it; where we don’t need to do it, we will stay away from it. It is not a national phenomenon or at least the growth in Medicare advantage, its way different in different state.

So – in the states we are in, we track where Medicare advantage is growing and how its growing and interact with managed care organizations to see whether we feel like in the marketplace we need to do that as a way of trying to build the business overall. But until the rates really change we will strive to keep it smaller part of our business as we can. Well that will be 7.5%, I can’t say. My guess is it will probably be a little bit larger, but I don’t think today you will see us announcing a managed – Medicare advantage strategy to expand our penetration into that market based – given where rates are.

Kevin Campbell – Avondale Partners

All right. Thank you very much.

William Yarmuth

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question is from Kevin Ellich of Piper Jaffray. Please go ahead.

Kevin Ellich – Piper Jaffray

Good morning, guys. Thanks for taking the question. Congratulations on the SEC investigation closure. Was that something that you guys were notified recently or is that something that’s been, you’ve been aware for a while?

William Yarmuth

I think it is right. November 2nd.

Kevin Ellich – Piper Jaffray

Yeah.

William Yarmuth

We received notification.

Kevin Ellich – Piper Jaffray

Okay. Thanks Bill. And then just one last question on Medicaid Advantage, do you have any sizeable or a meaningful contract that you’ve disclosed or just (inaudible) disclosed like Humana seems to be a pretty big player, obviously UnitedHealthcare as well, anything like that?

William Yarmuth

Well I think we basically said that the impact that the – we deal with all the major managed care organizations let me say that in the areas in which we operate. So they are going to be the Humana’s, the Ethna’s, the Sigma’s of the world, united of the worlds. So we have contracts with all of them some but not in all areas. I don’t believe we have any national contracts because we kind of deal with it on a market-by-market basis.

Kevin Ellich – Piper Jaffray

Sure.

William Yarmuth

So, I don’t think we don’t anything to disclose in there rather than to say that with the impact of this in this quarter, was the best half of what our exposure is to Medicare Advantage.

Kevin Ellich – Piper Jaffray

Yeah okay. Yeah that makes a lot of sense with your strategy Bill. As part of the regulatory and reimbursement environment with the election finally coming to a close, have you given any thought as to reimbursement are looking to as we head into 2013 obviously we have sequestration looming, is there anything else that terms out at you Bill or what you guy’s have heard in Washington or coming out Washington?

William Yarmuth

Well I think the high level topics, the biggest one is rebasing. Its schedule to take base in 2014, we would expect to have some sense of where that’s going to go on rates, sometime probably in the third quarter of 2013. So that was – that’s the big issue out there. And the other issues that people talk about relative to changes are further rate cuts, co-pays, a lot of things that we’ve been dealing with as possibilities, but uncertainties over the past few years. I would expect that we would hear a lot of those topics being sort of in the news after the election regardless of who is elected.

Kevin Ellich – Piper Jaffray

Got it. Got it. And then over the last couple of years with the cut that the industry is based from Medicare, have you seen any noticeable change in the competitive landscape, looking at some of the comments that we are in the final rig that came out last week and it sounds like more providers are operating in their grant – losing money and it sounds like access the care could really be a jeopardy, have you guys noticed anything like that?

William Yarmuth

I don’t think we’ve seen that. I would expect that there would be a lot of more agencies losing money with the having to have dealt with the rate cuts we as an industry have experienced. Those that have – they don’t have the capital to sustain themselves through difficult times. I would expect that to happen. So relative to access for care, we haven’t seen it. I think one of – one – something I might notice, there seems to be a bit of positive tone towards home healthcare that is coming out of comments that MedPac is made and some of the discussions – comments they’ve made around targeted cuts as opposed to industry wide cuts and some of the proposals that they made in their recent – talked about in the recent meeting.

I think our – an indication that maybe we’ve been successful in our efforts as an industry to point the government to look at accesses that are limited and isolated – concentrated and isolated throughout the country and to try to focus on those as opposed to try and to deal with everything with across the board rate cuts. And it feels like and you are hearing a little bit more talk in that about that which I think directionally is positive.

Kevin Ellich – Piper Jaffray

Got it. Okay. Thanks a lot for the comments.

William Yarmuth

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from Whit Mayo of Robert W Baird. Please go ahead.

Whit Mayo - Robert W Baird

Hey. Good morning. We’ve talked about this some in the past and I don’t think this topics gets nearly as much attention from maybe the industry as it should, but have you guys been able to engage at all with state officials or any of the managed care payers in Ohio as it relates to the conversion of a lot of the dual eligible population over to managed care. Just kind of curious how that – how you see that evolving and potentially what role you could play in helping to manage the care of that patient population.

William Yarmuth

Well, Whit couple of things, one is yes, we have engaged with the primary payers in that demonstration project and have contracts with them. Implementation of that program has been delayed until July of 2013.

So I think that there is – there will be a lot more evolution and work that needs to done on that both at the state level and do the payors, so we are engaged with them from that perspective and we typically and historically have worked in from a government relation standpoint, worked within the various states in which activity was going on that could have an impact on our business, so you can expect us to be doing that as this program evolves.

Whit Mayo - Robert W Baird

I mean anything surprise you one way or the other or as you sort of go down this path of engaging in conversations and talking about contract terms and what you are seeing from other personal care providers in the market how they are responding? I am just trying to get a sense of sort of where you see that price point for the plumbing community base services going forward?

William Yarmuth

Well my understanding of the program as it exists today is in the first year of the program they have established traditional Medicaid rate as the reimbursement rate, so there is not a lot of negotiation around that at this point. So the Medicaid rates are where the Medicaid rates are. I think that there will be more and more dialogue interaction as we get into the program and see how effectively the managed care organizations can really take a desperate and sort of unbundled patient population and convert it to a coordinated care management kind of approach which we philosophically comment and thing make sense for the home health to be able to be the primary care provider for chronically disabled or patients with chronic conditions.

So we are excited about working in that environment as a way of learning how that can be done because we think and we promote that that is one of the highest and best usage for home healthcare in the future.

Whit Mayo - Robert W Baird

No. I would think you should be theoretically positioned fairly well going forward there.

William Yarmuth

We’re very attended into practice, right. That’s a challenge.

Whit Mayo - Robert W Baird

Yeah. I know, exactly. One other – and I guess we’ll just sort of see how that pilot in Ohio. Overall, it’s kind of fascinating from my point of view, but maybe just an update on Florida and operations there and there was a few hiccups earlier this year, just wasn’t sure kind of how you’d gage your level of satisfaction there.

William Yarmuth

I think we’re pleased with the progress in Florida has made. As it relates to last year we’re having positive episodic admission growth, and I think we feel pretty good about where it’s going. It’s a market that is highly competitive. It’s a market that really isn’t growing as fast as it was historically, especially in the traditional Medicare population.

So when it’s one of the things with – we talk about Medicare advantage that you start looking at state-by-state to see different penetration rate, different growth rates of traditional enrollees and traditional beneficiaries in the program, and Florida is one that’s relatively flat. So, positive admission growth in Florida over the past few years is really, to some degree, taken some market share. Certainly not what we expected – what we had – what we hoped to achieve or what we expect to achieve, but from a momentum standpoint it’s going in the right direction.

Whit Mayo - Robert W Baird

Got it. So pleased with the improvement, but...

William Yarmuth

More to do.

Whit Mayo - Robert W Baird

Yeah. A lot more to do.

William Yarmuth

Right.

Whit Mayo - Robert W Baird

Got it. Okay. Thanks guys, I appreciate it.

William Yarmuth

Thank you, Whit.

Operator

Thank you. We have no further questions in the queue at this time. I’d like to turn the floor back over to management for closing remarks.

William Yarmuth

Thank you, operator. Before we conclude the call, I’d like to take the opportunity – this opportunity to especially thank our managers and staff in our North East cluster who have diligently honored our Senior Advocacy mission by putting our patient’s needs above their own as they dealt with the impact of Hurricane Sandy. They have a (inaudible) what we stand for is an organization. So I wanted to thank them. And with that look forward to our year end call after – in 2013. I appreciate you being with us today. Thanks.

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today’s teleconference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.

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