Going Green On Transportation Stocks: What To Buy And What To Sell? [View article]
Cssina- Not worth arguing with an ignorant person who enjoys bloviating his opinions rather than spending a little bit of time providing factual relevant back up to defend his writing.
Going Green On Transportation Stocks: What To Buy And What To Sell? [View article]
For starters, the page you linked to contradicts what you said in your article: "the company has negative operating cash flow on an annual basis". Just looking at that page without the footnotes, yes, it shows negative for 2012, but positive the prior years. Certainly not "on an annual basis". But if you really do have a finance degree along with your EE, then you should have been told that the important part to read and understand is not so much the raw numbers, but the "footnotes".
The only reason KNDI shows a negative operating cash flow for the first time is they made a large sale of EV's in late December just before the old PRC subsidy expired. The buyer had standard terms to pay for it, so at Dec. 31 it showed as a large AR. The AR subtracts from operating income and low and behold, they have a negative operating income at that moment in time. All because they did a positive thing and sold a bunch of EV's.
I agree with fellgrem above. You should read my article. I covered most of the points you made, negative and positive, but a lot more on top.
Going Green On Transportation Stocks: What To Buy And What To Sell? [View article]
If you read my second comment, you will note that KNDI is NOT a VIE like ChinaCast and Sino-Forest. It is like Harbin Electric.
Remember Harbin that was finally bought out for $24 a share in Cash after being beaten down to $7 by attack writers. Since you consider yourself and expert on China stocks, then you should know the reason it took Harbin so long to close the buyout. Since the CEO was the largest shareholder and he was part of the buyout group, he could not vote his shares. So they had to suspend the shareholders meeting a couple of times because they could not get enough outside shareholders to vote a majority to approve the $24 cash deal. It was finally done but only after several adjournments and re-votes.
I went to China specifically to visit the Company in 2010 and also met the General Manager of State Grid in Hangzhou, one of KNDI JV partners who certainly acted quite subservient to KNDI's CEO. KNDI is the only China Stock I own and I have owned it for almost seven years now. While I did visit a number of Companies on that trip, I passed on the rest because, like you, (or maybe not so since you were burned), I was suspicious of the rest.
I am a former Merrill Lynch Investment Banker and also founder and CEO of a Regional Investment Banking Firms. I have considered myself a Wall Street pro for right at 40 years. Over those years I too have been burned by a number of Companies, but in each case I identified the situation within a year or so. Not until KNDI can I honestly say in seven years, I have found nothing to ever give me concern. A totally unique experience.
Going Green On Transportation Stocks: What To Buy And What To Sell? [View article]
BTW, KNDI is not a Variable Interest Entity (VIE) like SinoForrest or China Cast. (or Baidu for that matter). KNDI is a full C corp where the shareholders all own the equity and their vote counts at each years proxy.
Going Green On Transportation Stocks: What To Buy And What To Sell? [View article]
frellgem. He doesn't have a clue about KNDI. He is wrong about KNDI's operating cash flow (they have been positive all along) and I have no idea where he got his institutional holding info. If he would have taken a minute to check the NASDAQ website, he would have known there is no fund by the name of ExcelAdvantage holding KNDI let alone its biggest holder. However its top 4 holders in order of size do include:
INVESCO LTD. BRIDGEWAY CAPITAL MANAGEMENT INC WFG ADVISORS, LP CALIFORNIA PUBLIC EMPLOYEES RETIREMENT SYSTEM
Small holdings as I made clear in my article on Monday, but what company with only a $130 million market cap trading under $5 does have a big holding?
For a Company that has self funded 9 PRC approved EV's without government help, it has a great looking balance sheet with over $43 million in cash or unused credit. Plus has already put up $24.5 million cash for its share of the new Geely KNDI JV facility.
You have to be careful of anyone paints all stocks with the same broad brush.
China's Geely Now With Kandi Technologies At Low End, Should Look At Tesla For High End [View article]
I don't know if you all are aware of not, but high end imports coming into China have a horrendous import duty of up to 100%. I don't know if it also includes high end EV's since other than the Model S and maybe a few Roadsters there have been no high end EVs, but what they call "high end" in China is like 7 series BMW's, Audi A6 etc.
Bottom line is if TSLA expects to sell a significant amount of cars in China, they would likely have to have a partner.
China's Geely Now With Kandi Technologies At Low End, Should Look At Tesla For High End [View article]
StrikePricer- That is certainly a point of view, but your concern doesn't seem to bother all of the rest of the Worlds automakers who are racing to partner up with China automakers for their high end cars.
China's Geely Now With Kandi Technologies At Low End, Should Look At Tesla For High End [View article]
thar- I believe it would be a brilliant move for Geely to take this seriously. Particularly since it would have them JV'ing with the only two US traded EV Manufacturing "pure plays".
And Musk has to be smart enough to take it seriously as well. A year or so ago, "Better Place" while private had a very high profile with their form of QBEX and boldly stated that they were going to enter the China market by opening their first QBEX in Beijing. They did open it and it went nowhere and now BP is barely hanging on as a viable Company.
If you are going to go to China, you have to have a "connected" partner to make it.
James Altucher: Why The Stock Market Is A Sucker's Game Right Now (And What Stocks I Own) [View article]
James, Back in 2010 you posted an article on SA which was one of the first significant mentions of Kandi Technologies (KNDI) on SA. In fact it was your article that inspired me to become an SA contributor writing on the Company. Seeing your general lack of enthusiasm for status quo in the domestic markets, you really should take another look at it. Particularly with all of the exuberance in the market on TSLA.
While the stock has done little since the "60 Mile Traffic Jam", the Company has made quantum leaps to the top of the EV chain in China.
Kandi Technologies Vs. Tesla: Wall Street EV Match-Up Revisited Part 2 [View article]
futurecartsla- I appreciate the comment and fully agree that TSLA's success can only help KNDI's US recognition. I have been saying that for as long as TSLA has been trading. After all, they are the only two "pure play" EV manufacturers a US investor can easily play. My only goal with these articles is to attract potential long term KNDI shareholders, not traders. And the best way to attract long term investors is to give them just enough info that they will do their own DD. Only then will they have the confidence to go for the long ride up. From a lot of the comments I have received from these two articles, I feel like I have made a lot of inroads to achieving that goal.
Believe me, while I don't hold any TSLA shares, I am your biggest non-shareholder rooter. On a much smaller scale, we KNDI holders have been fighting our own short seller battle. To see them getting burned is fine by us.
Kandi Technologies Vs. Tesla: Wall Street EV Match-Up Revisited Part 2 [View article]
rockett- If I may add an interesting point to this recent Sinopoly EV purchase contract. Sinopoly's largest outside shareholder is Li Ka-Shing, one of the worlds wealthiest men. He bought into the company as a first "stride" into green investments as you can see from this article.
Just a personal observation. If he likes Sinopoly as just a battery maker, with this recent purchase contract with KNDI, you can bet he is now aware of KNDI. Just some food for thought :-)
Kandi Technologies Vs. Tesla: Wall Street EV Match-Up Revisited Part 2 [View article]
weaponzero- Rockett has given you an excellent response. But if I may add again a response I gave to a prior comment above that is appropriate to repeat re the costs to provide the batteries.
State Grid is very similar to a number of Electric Utilities in the US in that they are allowed to "pass through" Cap EX for Grid upgrade to all their consumers. With SG servicing over a billion residents in China, the actual increase in monthly bills is relatively insignificant to the average consumer and no cost to the Grid.
They do the same with the batteries that they purchase for the KNDI Quick Battery Exchange. They "book" the cost of the batteries as "Grid Stabilization" which is a cap ex item.
What most people don't realize is that most Utility Companies have to keep their turbines and generators running 24/7, which means they actually have a problem in the overnight hours finding a place to put the excess electric generated. In my home town of Houston, one of the major providers TXU even has a program where they give the consumer the electricity for free between the hours of 10pm and 6am,
So what SG is doing with KNDI's QBEX model is store the excess electricity in the batteries. They hold a Hugh excess of batteries over and above what is needed for the EV's so they can then take that excess in pump it back into the Grid during peak hours.
Kandi Technologies Vs. Tesla: Wall Street EV Match-Up Revisited Part 2 [View article]
ddharriman- I don't know a lot about DE's PR mainly because about the only thing I can find on this "agreement" either in the US or the China Media is the PR that DE put out. I have found no comments from anyone at Geely confirming the relationship. That is not to say it is fabricated. Just the fact that Geely was seriously interested in acquiring control of Fisker with its flashy Roadster inures to the fact they would like to have such a car, that perhaps DE with its electric Lotus could provide in their future inventory.
But from what little I can find, it does not appear this is what the proposed DE, Geely relationship will involve. According to some other comments made by DE, Geely's interest is in DE providing the powertrain for Geely's Emgrand EC7 sedan.
Reading what little press is available, it almost appears that this potential JV was initialized at last weeks Shanghai Auto Show. But what is the most noteworthy difference between KNDI's JV which is a true JV now in place with Geely, and the DE announcement, is in KNDI's case, Li Shufu, Geely's Chairman/Founder has not only saturated the Media with quotes and interviews about the KNDI JV, but also was at the closing as you can see from the picture I provided above.
As I stated above re. the DE situation, I can't find any comment from the Geely side by any Geely spokesperson.
Kandi Technologies Vs. Tesla: Wall Street EV Match-Up Revisited Part 2 [View article]
Johnmansfield- For a person who is "not an investor" to take the time to sign-up on Seeking Alpha just to make his first comment a complement to my article is quite heartwarming.
Going Green On Transportation Stocks: What To Buy And What To Sell? [View article]
Going Green On Transportation Stocks: What To Buy And What To Sell? [View article]
The only reason KNDI shows a negative operating cash flow for the first time is they made a large sale of EV's in late December just before the old PRC subsidy expired. The buyer had standard terms to pay for it, so at Dec. 31 it showed as a large AR. The AR subtracts from operating income and low and behold, they have a negative operating income at that moment in time. All because they did a positive thing and sold a bunch of EV's.
I agree with fellgrem above. You should read my article. I covered most of the points you made, negative and positive, but a lot more on top.
Going Green On Transportation Stocks: What To Buy And What To Sell? [View article]
Remember Harbin that was finally bought out for $24 a share in Cash after being beaten down to $7 by attack writers. Since you consider yourself and expert on China stocks, then you should know the reason it took Harbin so long to close the buyout. Since the CEO was the largest shareholder and he was part of the buyout group, he could not vote his shares. So they had to suspend the shareholders meeting a couple of times because they could not get enough outside shareholders to vote a majority to approve the $24 cash deal. It was finally done but only after several adjournments and re-votes.
I went to China specifically to visit the Company in 2010 and also met the General Manager of State Grid in Hangzhou, one of KNDI JV partners who certainly acted quite subservient to KNDI's CEO. KNDI is the only China Stock I own and I have owned it for almost seven years now. While I did visit a number of Companies on that trip, I passed on the rest because, like you, (or maybe not so since you were burned), I was suspicious of the rest.
I am a former Merrill Lynch Investment Banker and also founder and CEO of a Regional Investment Banking Firms. I have considered myself a Wall Street pro for right at 40 years. Over those years I too have been burned by a number of Companies, but in each case I identified the situation within a year or so. Not until KNDI can I honestly say in seven years, I have found nothing to ever give me concern. A totally unique experience.
Going Green On Transportation Stocks: What To Buy And What To Sell? [View article]
Going Green On Transportation Stocks: What To Buy And What To Sell? [View article]
INVESCO LTD.
BRIDGEWAY CAPITAL MANAGEMENT INC
WFG ADVISORS, LP
CALIFORNIA PUBLIC EMPLOYEES RETIREMENT SYSTEM
Small holdings as I made clear in my article on Monday, but what company with only a $130 million market cap trading under $5 does have a big holding?
For a Company that has self funded 9 PRC approved EV's without government help, it has a great looking balance sheet with over $43 million in cash or unused credit. Plus has already put up $24.5 million cash for its share of the new Geely KNDI JV facility.
You have to be careful of anyone paints all stocks with the same broad brush.
China's Geely Now With Kandi Technologies At Low End, Should Look At Tesla For High End [View article]
Bottom line is if TSLA expects to sell a significant amount of cars in China, they would likely have to have a partner.
Thanks for your comment
China's Geely Now With Kandi Technologies At Low End, Should Look At Tesla For High End [View article]
Thanks for the Comment
China's Geely Now With Kandi Technologies At Low End, Should Look At Tesla For High End [View article]
China's Geely Now With Kandi Technologies At Low End, Should Look At Tesla For High End [View article]
And Musk has to be smart enough to take it seriously as well. A year or so ago, "Better Place" while private had a very high profile with their form of QBEX and boldly stated that they were going to enter the China market by opening their first QBEX in Beijing. They did open it and it went nowhere and now BP is barely hanging on as a viable Company.
If you are going to go to China, you have to have a "connected" partner to make it.
Thanks for your comment
James Altucher: Why The Stock Market Is A Sucker's Game Right Now (And What Stocks I Own) [View article]
While the stock has done little since the "60 Mile Traffic Jam", the Company has made quantum leaps to the top of the EV chain in China.
Kandi Technologies Vs. Tesla: Wall Street EV Match-Up Revisited Part 2 [View article]
Believe me, while I don't hold any TSLA shares, I am your biggest non-shareholder rooter. On a much smaller scale, we KNDI holders have been fighting our own short seller battle. To see them getting burned is fine by us.
Kandi Technologies Vs. Tesla: Wall Street EV Match-Up Revisited Part 2 [View article]
http://bit.ly/156sfCp
Just a personal observation. If he likes Sinopoly as just a battery maker, with this recent purchase contract with KNDI, you can bet he is now aware of KNDI. Just some food for thought :-)
Kandi Technologies Vs. Tesla: Wall Street EV Match-Up Revisited Part 2 [View article]
State Grid is very similar to a number of Electric Utilities in the US in that they are allowed to "pass through" Cap EX for Grid upgrade to all their consumers. With SG servicing over a billion residents in China, the actual increase in monthly bills is relatively insignificant to the average consumer and no cost to the Grid.
They do the same with the batteries that they purchase for the KNDI Quick Battery Exchange. They "book" the cost of the batteries as "Grid Stabilization" which is a cap ex item.
What most people don't realize is that most Utility Companies have to keep their turbines and generators running 24/7, which means they actually have a problem in the overnight hours finding a place to put the excess electric generated. In my home town of Houston, one of the major providers TXU even has a program where they give the consumer the electricity for free between the hours of 10pm and 6am,
So what SG is doing with KNDI's QBEX model is store the excess electricity in the batteries. They hold a Hugh excess of batteries over and above what is needed for the EV's so they can then take that excess in pump it back into the Grid during peak hours.
Thanks for commenting
Kandi Technologies Vs. Tesla: Wall Street EV Match-Up Revisited Part 2 [View article]
But from what little I can find, it does not appear this is what the proposed DE, Geely relationship will involve. According to some other comments made by DE, Geely's interest is in DE providing the powertrain for Geely's Emgrand EC7 sedan.
Reading what little press is available, it almost appears that this potential JV was initialized at last weeks Shanghai Auto Show. But what is the most noteworthy difference between KNDI's JV which is a true JV now in place with Geely, and the DE announcement, is in KNDI's case, Li Shufu, Geely's Chairman/Founder has not only saturated the Media with quotes and interviews about the KNDI JV, but also was at the closing as you can see from the picture I provided above.
As I stated above re. the DE situation, I can't find any comment from the Geely side by any Geely spokesperson.
Thanks for commenting
Kandi Technologies Vs. Tesla: Wall Street EV Match-Up Revisited Part 2 [View article]
Thanks for taking the time.