The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]
Good to see you again, Ricard.
The mongols did reach India, not over the Himalayas. The Silk Road had been there way before then. The monk in the Tang Dynasty reached India by himself in 631AD. But, yes, it was not an easy route and it certainly helped the peace.
I'm not saying China is more peace-loving than others by nature. It's just that the Chinese Empire expanded very wide and very early compared to the technology of the time, so much so that the emperors had relatively little desire to expand further. I assume the same holds for ancient India.
A story, not 100% sure whether it's historically accurate. During the Qing Dynasty there was a meeting between Chinese and Russian officials at the border to draw up, well, the border since it had never been drawn. The Chinese officials got exhausted by the time they reached some river a few hundred miles from supposed meeting place at the border, said "oh f*ck it this is stupid" and took camp. The Russians waited and waited at the meeting place, for days, then decided to go further. There was only one possible route across the region, the old Silk Route. After a few days they met the Chinese delegation and said:"Look, dudes, you can't even go beyond this point and it's all wasteland there anyways, so let's draw up the border here yes?" And the Chinese lazy asses readily agreed.
The notion of sovereignty was also quite different from that in Europe. Borders were seldom clearly drawn because, almost by definition, the border areas were not good places for agriculture and living, thus deemed insignificant.
This is very different from European history. After Rome, there has never been one encompassing empire, and there's no natural barrier between the more or less equal powers on the continent. Constant warfare is a natural consequence of this, which also provided motivation for constant innovation and application thereof. China, on the contrary, got too comfortable too early. Neither the emperors nor the people saw great needs to develop technology diligently since what they had were already "good enough" until the rude awakening by Europeans.
The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]
Thanks for the enlightenment but I was aware of the Soviet-German part of WWII. The comment you pointed out was meant to be a half-joke. But I'm sure you're also aware of the Soviet-German alliance before it broke down and how it broke down. After WWII, given the cruelty of the Soviet-German front, you'd expect Russians hating Germans to the guts for a long time. But the fact is they don't. Yes, Soviet troops attacked German troops without mercy and killed German POWs (for very pragmatic reasons -- they could hardly feed or move themselves in the harsh environment and logistic conditions). But they quickly forgave the Germans, certainly much more so than the French or British. Russia always wanted to be accepted as "proper" European. It's a complex. French would never recognize that. British even less so, as do the Vikings. Southern Italians, maybe, but they're not accepted as "proper" European themselves. German/Austrian are their best hope.
And Germans invariably find Russian resources the only alternative, most reliable among the only choice.
The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]
Thanks, Tompa. This is consistent with what I was guessing.
One comment about PIIGS, though. If they don't like the half-assed pretend austerity so far, it'll get much more real, and worse, if they hang on to the euro. I guess they're just hanging on to it one day at a time, as you implied.
The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]
Yes, I've watched many European soccer games. Pretty crazy stuff. Scary when you think that nationalism in Europe is a fairly recent phenomenon in the historical context. Few of the countless European wars before WWI were "the people's wars" -- mercenary armies fought for money/honor, noncombatants went on with their lives.
From what I read (not living in Europe), I have the same impression as you do -- popular discontent against the elite-imposed euro is high. But I haven't seen any real indications yet, at least not nearly strong enough. So I'm a bit puzzled and confused.
The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]
No, it was not directed at you at all, Stanley. Sorry for the confusion. My comments were prompted by Portuguese' new found admiration for Salazar pointed out by Davewmart. I should've made that clear.
The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]
Thanks! This coming from someone living in Europe, I'm flattered.
One thing I don't understand is how much popular support there is for the euro. Judging by the fact that Rome is still not burning yet, I have to assume people want to keep it? Is it only because the pain hasn't been quite enough, or do the elites actually have more popular support than the media show?
The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]
Very interesting perspective, change, especially the analogy between ECB and monarchy.
Maybe I understood you wrong, but sovereign is always a process all over the world, as implied by your handle no less. ;> If you refer to the aspect of states joining and seceding, I submit that similar mechanism and examples abound in history -- collapse of USSR, ancient China, ancient India. But I think this element is missing from European history. Europeans take by force, and give when forced. ;>
American democracy and its political setup are different from those of Europe, and civil war is hugely important to this country. I'm just trying to understand what you meant. I feel you may be onto something here, but not sure what.
The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]
Could not edit the above comment so I'll add another one.
In the 5000+ years of their respective civilization history, China and India had never had any adversity until very recently, which is more like an instant in the historical timeframe. It is quite remarkable, and probably unique in human history, for two big and advanced (at the time) countries located close to each other yet with no wars for so long. I hope the two peoples realize and appreciate this important fact.
Even between China and Korea, China and Japan, the coexistence had been mostly peaceful until the Europeans came. Well, ok, except a few invasions now and then. ;> Seriously, the frequency and intensity of conflict in Asia before European colonists came are almost negligible compared to Europe.
The prevailing view of history and world in the west is biased and western-centric. This is quite understandable, and less severe than it could've been. But this doesn't mean it's right.
The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]
One more point, "stark naked". The implication in your comment is that everybody hates China. This is very true currently. Everybody loves to hate China -- the government for sure, the society, the culture, maybe even the people; the line gets blurry at the shallow end of the gene pool. But if you zoom out in time and look at broader history, the opposite is more true.
The US government's manipulation of public opinion, especially in foreign affairs, is subtle yet extremely effective. In the early 80's, when US and China were fast warming up for an alliance against USSR, China was such a beautiful place, full of hope and desire to change -- as portrayed in the US. Then it became clear that China would not be a member state of the empire. So the media love faded.
In the late 90's, US and India were warming up for an alliance against Russia and China. All of a sudden there was a wave of media articles and TV programs touting India, the history, culture, fledgling democracy. Then it gradually dawned on the US that India would not fully join the empire, either. So the media love gradually faded, also. Then India snubbed US fighter jets earlier this year, and there was a front page article on NYTimes THE NEXT DAY talking about India's dysfunctional democracy and economy. I mean, WTF?
The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]
Of course. Slavery was a sideshow, freeing slaves was a by-product. It was a great inspiration for the slaves and a great irritation for slave owners, for sure. But to make it a central theme and motivation for the war is ludicrous. I reckon it's nice to think that so many white Americans, decedents of those who slaughtered native Indians, were willing to give their lives for the freedom of slaves way back then. It moves one to tears. But such self-glorification is sad and laughable. And if it weren't for the moral highground the US has taken since WWII, it would've been the butt of jokes all over the world.
The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]
Maybe we should discuss these points in more depth over drinks. ;>
The world has been itching to find a way to fight wars without going nuclear. Seventy years without a major war, can you imagine how painful that is? Being the crazy assholes that we are, I think we're at least close to the solution, and it's only a matter of time before someone tries it out. Limited in scope and goal. The risk is, of course, whether both sides can control the escalation especially when nationalistic/religiou... fervor kicks in. It's a dangerous game that we can't help but playing.
Another grave danger I see is the fragility of democracy under the pressure of nationalism. This has been demonstrated with painful clarity in Europe before WWI, and then again before WWII. Yet the modern western society has refused to examine this. The common unspoken assumption is that US is such a melting pot it's by nature immune to nationalism. But many of my immigrant friends, both Asian and European, clearly see the nationalist fervor in the US. Seems only the natives (as in Gangs of New York) are blind to it. This worries me.
The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]
Based on my limited understanding and experience, Russians secretly admire Germans while Germans, well, they just don't have anything better to do. ;> They've flirted several times throughout history after they rose from obscurity, both somewhat mysteriously I might add. The attraction is mutual and irresistible.
The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]
When the going gets really tough, the crazy gets going. If the west really goes through a great depression, I'm afraid western liberalism (in the traditional, social sense) would be cast away and laughed at, and all kinds of crazies would come out in the open.
The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]
I'm enjoying the discussion immensely. Unexpected pleasure.
The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]
The mongols did reach India, not over the Himalayas. The Silk Road had been there way before then. The monk in the Tang Dynasty reached India by himself in 631AD. But, yes, it was not an easy route and it certainly helped the peace.
I'm not saying China is more peace-loving than others by nature. It's just that the Chinese Empire expanded very wide and very early compared to the technology of the time, so much so that the emperors had relatively little desire to expand further. I assume the same holds for ancient India.
A story, not 100% sure whether it's historically accurate. During the Qing Dynasty there was a meeting between Chinese and Russian officials at the border to draw up, well, the border since it had never been drawn. The Chinese officials got exhausted by the time they reached some river a few hundred miles from supposed meeting place at the border, said "oh f*ck it this is stupid" and took camp. The Russians waited and waited at the meeting place, for days, then decided to go further. There was only one possible route across the region, the old Silk Route. After a few days they met the Chinese delegation and said:"Look, dudes, you can't even go beyond this point and it's all wasteland there anyways, so let's draw up the border here yes?" And the Chinese lazy asses readily agreed.
The notion of sovereignty was also quite different from that in Europe. Borders were seldom clearly drawn because, almost by definition, the border areas were not good places for agriculture and living, thus deemed insignificant.
This is very different from European history. After Rome, there has never been one encompassing empire, and there's no natural barrier between the more or less equal powers on the continent. Constant warfare is a natural consequence of this, which also provided motivation for constant innovation and application thereof. China, on the contrary, got too comfortable too early. Neither the emperors nor the people saw great needs to develop technology diligently since what they had were already "good enough" until the rude awakening by Europeans.
The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]
And Germans invariably find Russian resources the only alternative, most reliable among the only choice.
The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]
One comment about PIIGS, though. If they don't like the half-assed pretend austerity so far, it'll get much more real, and worse, if they hang on to the euro. I guess they're just hanging on to it one day at a time, as you implied.
The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]
From what I read (not living in Europe), I have the same impression as you do -- popular discontent against the elite-imposed euro is high. But I haven't seen any real indications yet, at least not nearly strong enough. So I'm a bit puzzled and confused.
The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]
The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]
One thing I don't understand is how much popular support there is for the euro. Judging by the fact that Rome is still not burning yet, I have to assume people want to keep it? Is it only because the pain hasn't been quite enough, or do the elites actually have more popular support than the media show?
The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]
Maybe I understood you wrong, but sovereign is always a process all over the world, as implied by your handle no less. ;> If you refer to the aspect of states joining and seceding, I submit that similar mechanism and examples abound in history -- collapse of USSR, ancient China, ancient India. But I think this element is missing from European history. Europeans take by force, and give when forced. ;>
American democracy and its political setup are different from those of Europe, and civil war is hugely important to this country. I'm just trying to understand what you meant. I feel you may be onto something here, but not sure what.
The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]
In the 5000+ years of their respective civilization history, China and India had never had any adversity until very recently, which is more like an instant in the historical timeframe. It is quite remarkable, and probably unique in human history, for two big and advanced (at the time) countries located close to each other yet with no wars for so long. I hope the two peoples realize and appreciate this important fact.
Even between China and Korea, China and Japan, the coexistence had been mostly peaceful until the Europeans came. Well, ok, except a few invasions now and then. ;> Seriously, the frequency and intensity of conflict in Asia before European colonists came are almost negligible compared to Europe.
The prevailing view of history and world in the west is biased and western-centric. This is quite understandable, and less severe than it could've been. But this doesn't mean it's right.
The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]
The US government's manipulation of public opinion, especially in foreign affairs, is subtle yet extremely effective. In the early 80's, when US and China were fast warming up for an alliance against USSR, China was such a beautiful place, full of hope and desire to change -- as portrayed in the US. Then it became clear that China would not be a member state of the empire. So the media love faded.
In the late 90's, US and India were warming up for an alliance against Russia and China. All of a sudden there was a wave of media articles and TV programs touting India, the history, culture, fledgling democracy. Then it gradually dawned on the US that India would not fully join the empire, either. So the media love gradually faded, also. Then India snubbed US fighter jets earlier this year, and there was a front page article on NYTimes THE NEXT DAY talking about India's dysfunctional democracy and economy. I mean, WTF?
The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]
The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]
The world has been itching to find a way to fight wars without going nuclear. Seventy years without a major war, can you imagine how painful that is? Being the crazy assholes that we are, I think we're at least close to the solution, and it's only a matter of time before someone tries it out. Limited in scope and goal. The risk is, of course, whether both sides can control the escalation especially when nationalistic/religiou... fervor kicks in. It's a dangerous game that we can't help but playing.
Another grave danger I see is the fragility of democracy under the pressure of nationalism. This has been demonstrated with painful clarity in Europe before WWI, and then again before WWII. Yet the modern western society has refused to examine this. The common unspoken assumption is that US is such a melting pot it's by nature immune to nationalism. But many of my immigrant friends, both Asian and European, clearly see the nationalist fervor in the US. Seems only the natives (as in Gangs of New York) are blind to it. This worries me.
The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]
The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]
The Dawn Of The Franco-German Empire [View article]