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  • Letter To John Hempton From A 'Clueless Short Seller' [View article]
    HLF distributors get paid on the purchases made by their downline..."facially unrelated to retail sales."

    Return Policy has just been changed.

    Q. Can I return my time, wasted effort, damaged relationships, money spent on leads that don't pan out, start-up costs, gas money, phone charges, inventory sold on a best efforts basis, rental costs for Opportunity Meetings, etc.?

    Does Herbalife refund losses on soft dollars?
    Mar 25, 2014. 01:16 PM | 8 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • 3 Herbalife Directors Get Wise And Quit. Will Mr. Stiritz Be Next? [View article]
    right...because these recruits have perfect information...your argument is nonsense...HLF relies upon information assymetry as part of its deception...controls the settings/message it gives to recruits and deceives them...

    total fraud
    Mar 25, 2014. 10:55 AM | 2 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • 3 Herbalife Directors Get Wise And Quit. Will Mr. Stiritz Be Next? [View article]
    I suggest you revisit the legal definition of fraud...caveat emptor is not the law of the land when deceit is involved...
    Mar 24, 2014. 09:25 PM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • 3 Herbalife Directors Get Wise And Quit. Will Mr. Stiritz Be Next? [View article]
    the crime is fraud not failure...the failure is the result of the fraud...a riged game that offers no chance of success to the endless chain of recruits who find themselves too late to the party
    Mar 24, 2014. 05:31 PM | 2 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • 3 Herbalife Directors Get Wise And Quit. Will Mr. Stiritz Be Next? [View article]
    I don't think the FTC's track record is to negotiate with Pyramid Schemes...

    I think they try to close them down and get recovery for the victims...FHTM, Burnlounge, etc.
    Mar 24, 2014. 05:30 PM | Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • 3 Herbalife Directors Get Wise And Quit. Will Mr. Stiritz Be Next? [View article]
    I heard he had moved to Vietnam to open-up a Herbalife distributorship...obesity is apparently an epidemic over there...:)
    Mar 24, 2014. 11:27 AM | 4 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Will Carole Black And Michael Levitt Resign From Herbalife's Board? [View article]
    Sooner than we thought...evidently your Spider senses mislead you...:)
    Mar 24, 2014. 10:09 AM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • Herbalife, MLMs And The Unhappy Folks Of Whoville [View article]
    I like the article Bill. I think your point is well-taken. Too much focus has been given to the instigation of the scrutiny into HLF and the modus operandi of the participants.

    Not enough attention has been given to whether or not the Grinch has a point.

    Short-sellers and anti-fraud participants in free markets play a vital role in keeping the economic backbone straight.

    If there is money to be made along the way, so be it. It is hardly without risk nor for the thin skinned.

    I trust the notion that regulators will now be concerned fully with the "factsaboutherbalife" rather than the interests of billionaires either long or short.

    Mr. Greenspan and his band of Randian's taught us well that unregulated highways invite speeders of all stripes...hence the housing bubble...

    MBIA was Mr. Ackman's first foray into the unintended consequences of a lax regulatory regime.

    Seemingly, HLF presents another.
    Mar 21, 2014. 10:29 PM | 9 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Does The FTC Negotiate With Criminals? [View article]
    no chance....if anything my bet is he is adding to his position
    Mar 21, 2014. 03:00 PM | 5 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Shattering The Personal Consumption Myth 3.0 [View article]
    1) Your answer is nonsense. Reporting retail sales should be easy to do. Create the policy and enforce it. Your excuse amounts to other famous excuse like "My dog ate my homework." or "My alarm didn't go off."

    2) If Mary is a customer for two years and then signs up to become a distributor then she is a distributor, part of the pay plan, and therefore not an "ultimate user". This is the law.

    3) The relevant case law can be found in the Table of Authorities offered in teh FTC's cross appeal on Burnlounge. You can find them yourself.

    You misinterpret the FTC's advisory in my view. How do we know? If you look at the arguments the FTC is advancing in Burnlounge and FHTM, etc. we get a clear understanding of the FTC's current position on MLMs v. Pyramid Schemes.

    As to why 99.5% do not return product?

    Here are a number of possibilities.:
    1) They make an honest effort to sell the product then quit when they realize there is no profit to be had even if they sell it through
    2) They consumer it
    3) They dispose of it.
    4) They can't be bothered
    5) The return policy until 2 months ago was punitive and required a cash outlay
    6) Supervisors are trained to blame the victim for failure and so participants are too ashamed to return their product
    7) Based upon your own argument, distributors are too disorganized to file and register retail sales...so...it stands to reason that these same people would be too disorganized to return product.
    8) Who cares?

    The low return rate is not evidence of retail sales nor is it evidence that the company markets a profitable business opportunity to distributors. It is only evidence of a low return rate. It is also trumped by other data such as the high churn rates and high loss rates in the distributor base.

    Hypothetically, let's assume that 100% of the product is consumed by people who really want to lose weight. The product still does not perform well over time as most quit within a year.

    No matter how you come at the question, the business relies upon recruiting.
    Mar 20, 2014. 09:24 AM | 2 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Herbalife - The Fractal Nature Of Failure [View article]
    nice work Rogier...Money Transfer Scheme it is...destined to be dust-binned by the regulatory authorities
    Mar 20, 2014. 08:13 AM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • Shattering The Personal Consumption Myth 3.0 [View article]
    I wonder if Tom Cruise will join Herbalife...lol
    Mar 18, 2014. 09:23 PM | 2 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Shattering The Personal Consumption Myth 3.0 [View article]
    right....and customers end-up seeing so much value in it that most quit in less than a year v. Costco where the churn rate is 10%...

    so...what is the problem?

    either:

    a) the product stinks or
    b) the people do not like their salespeople/weight loss coach or
    c) they hit their weight loss goal and are so happy that they quit or
    d) they fail at the business opportunity and quit

    but to be sure...something turns most distributors off the value proposition as most simply do not pay their $10 annual renewal fee on the anniversary of their sign-up...

    hmmmm
    Mar 18, 2014. 09:19 PM | 4 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Shattering The Personal Consumption Myth 3.0 [View article]
    Len...first let me say that your questions explore the nature of trees without considering the forest...having said that...

    1) When a retail sale is made to a customer a receipt should be issued. A copy of the receipt should be submitted to the company so all sales can be tracked. What is complicated about that?

    2) I am suggesting that the law wants to see delineation between salespeople and customers. If everyone is a salesperson and a customer too, why would you ever need any salespeople? Just turn the company into a direct selling enterprise.

    3) Distributors can be customers or if you prefer, personal consumers but that does not make them a "retail sale" according to the law. Why? Obviously because there is the incentive system tied to the business opportunity.

    Is the low return rate indicative of the idea that people are customers or that they are committed to the business plan? Hard to say.

    Here's the point. Regulators want to see a bright line between salespeople and retail customers.

    This is why Nuskin has a consumer network with restrictions. This is also why other MLMs do not price discriminate.

    If Herbalife were to flatten wholesale prices for all distributors we would quickly find out how much real demand there is for F-1 v. the perverse incentive of climbing to SUPERVISOR.

    Finally...if Herbalife wanted to prove it has real retail sales it would have done so by now. Its unique ability to stonewall has earned it this FTC investigation.

    You may not like the law like the rest of the DSA but that is how it is written.
    Mar 18, 2014. 06:03 PM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • Shattering The Personal Consumption Myth 3.0 [View article]
    j2L...do you really think anything the company states is reliable?

    they have answered the retail question so many different ways that they have no credibility whatsoever...

    how's that retail tracking system coming along?
    Mar 18, 2014. 03:08 PM | 5 Likes Like |Link to Comment
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