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  • Dividend Aristocrats In Focus Part 39: AT&T [View article]
    Hello BuffaloWingswithRanchD...

    Graham prescribed very different strategies for institutional, highly experienced and well-connected investors.

    In the "Legacy of Benjamin Graham" video released by the Heilbrunn Center, Buffett explains how Graham was focused on refining methods that ordinary investors - without specialized access - could apply to achieve results similar to his own (Grahams's).

    Also, given below is part of the conclusion from the study "The Evolution of the Idea of Value Investing: From Benjamin Graham to Warren Buffett" by Robert F. Bierig, Duke University:

    "A [casual] observer of Buffett today would find it difficult to see the Ben Graham influence in many of his activities. However, that influence remains at the core of Buffett's investment model. Buffett continues to think about stocks as fractional ownership interests in underlying businesses, he continues to operate under the assumption that there is a distinction between price and value, and he continues to search for the largest discrepancy between those two items. In other words, he continues to be a value investor."

    For more details, please see the section on "Special Situations" in http://seekingalpha.co...

    Thank you.
    Nov 21, 2014. 07:17 AM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • Is Exxon Mobil Stock A Buy Right Now? [View article]
    Benjamin Graham was a scholar and financial analyst who mentored legendary investors such as Warren Buffett, William J. Ruane, Irving Kahn and Walter J. Schloss.

    Buffett even named his son after Graham, and describes Graham's book - The Intelligent Investor - as "by far the best book about investing ever written".

    Graham recommended various categories of stocks - Index, Defensive, Enterprising and NCAV. He emphasized that the secret of sound investment was the "Margin of Safety", and specified precise qualitative and quantitative rules for each category.

    For example, given below are all Graham ratings for Exxon Mobil Corporation (XOM).

    Defensive Graham investment requires all the ratings to be at least 100%.
    Enterprising Graham investment requires the ratings to be at least - N/A, 75%, 90%, 50%, 5%, N/A and 137%.

    Exxon Mobil Corporation - Graham Ratings
    Sales | Size (100% ⇒ $500 Million): 87,652.00%
    Current Assets ÷ [2 x Current Liabilities]: 41.34%
    Net Current Assets ÷ Long Term Debt: 0.00%
    Earnings Stability (100% ⇒ 10 Years): 100.00%
    Dividend Record (100% ⇒ 20 Years): 100.00%
    Earnings Growth (100% ⇒ 30% Growth): 120.74%
    Graham Number ÷ Previous Close: 92.63%

    Warren Buffett once wrote an article explaining how Graham's principles are everlasting, their results irrefutable, and his students consistently exceptional. It's called "The Superinvestors of Graham-and-Doddsville".

    http://seekingalpha.co... shows how anyone can do a true 17-point Benjamin Graham assessment for 5000+ NYSE and NASDAQ stocks; with no adjustments other than those for inflation.
    Nov 20, 2014. 12:54 PM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • ModernGraham Quarterly Valuation Of Visa Inc. [View article]
    The ModernGraham website lists the following formula as one of the evaluation methods it uses:
    Intrinsic Value = EPS x (8.5 + 2xGrowth)

    Benjamin Graham actually gave the following warnings about this formula:
    1. "Warning: This material is supplied for illustrative purposes only".
    2. "Let the reader not be misled into thinking that such projections have any high degree of reliability".
    3. "Note that we do not suggest that this formula gives the “true value” of a growth stock".

    Graham only used this formula to demonstrate why oversimplified growth estimates are unreliable. But due to a printing omission in recent editions of The Intelligent Investor, this formula is often used today instead of Graham's actual (and more thorough) methods.

    Article 1: http://seekingalpha.co... discusses the issue in detail.

    Warren Buffett once wrote an article describing how Benjamin Graham's principles are everlasting, their results irrefutable, and his students consistently exceptional. It's called "The Superinvestors of Graham-and-Doddsville".

    But most of what Graham actually taught has been forgotten today, and things he warned against are often attributed to him instead. The above formula is just one example. Even when Graham's recommended methods are used, they are heavily modified - often beyond recognition - to clear the stocks, rather than having stocks clear them.

    Given below are the actual Graham ratings for Visa Inc (V).

    Defensive Graham investment requires all the ratings to be at least 100%.
    Enterprising Graham investment requires the ratings to be at least - N/A, 75%, 90%, 50%, 5%, N/A and 137%.

    Visa Inc - Defensive Graham Ratings
    Sales | Size (100% ⇒ $500 Million): 2,356.00%
    Current Assets ÷ [2 x Current Liabilities]: 90.22%
    Net Current Assets ÷ Long Term Debt: 100.00%
    Earnings Stability (100% ⇒ 10 Years): 60.00%
    Dividend Record (100% ⇒ 20 Years): 30.00%
    Earnings Growth (100% ⇒ 30% Growth): 0.00%
    Graham Number ÷ Previous Close: 29.58%

    Graham recommended various categories of stocks - Index, Defensive, Enterprising and NCAV. He emphasized that the secret of sound investment was the "Margin of Safety", and specified precise qualitative and quantitative rules for each category.

    Article 2: http://seekingalpha.co... shows how anyone can do a true 17-point Benjamin Graham assessment for 5000+ NYSE and NASDAQ stocks; with no adjustments other than those for inflation.
    Nov 19, 2014. 03:27 PM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • ModernGraham Quarterly Valuation Of Celgene Corporation [View article]
    Intrinsic Value = EPS x (8.5 + 2xGrowth)

    The ModernGraham website lists this formula as one of the evaluation methods it uses.

    Benjamin Graham gave the following warnings about this formula:
    1. "Warning: This material is supplied for illustrative purposes only".
    2. "Let the reader not be misled into thinking that such projections have any high degree of reliability".
    3. "Note that we do not suggest that this formula gives the “true value” of a growth stock".

    Graham only mentions this formula to demonstrate why such oversimplified growth estimates are unreliable. This formula is popular only due to a printing omission in recent editions of The Intelligent Investor.

    Article 1: http://seekingalpha.co... discusses the issue in detail.

    Warren Buffett once wrote an article explaining how Benjamin Graham's principles are everlasting, their results irrefutable, and his students consistently exceptional. It's called "The Superinvestors of Graham-and-Doddsville".

    But most of what Graham actually taught has been forgotten today, and things he warned against are often attributed to him instead. The above formula is just one example.

    Even when Graham's recommended methods are used, they are heavily modified - often beyond recognition - to clear the stocks, rather than having stocks clear them.

    For example:
    "Adequate Size of Enterprise - market capitalization of at least $2 billion."

    Graham actually recommended "Not less than $100 million of annual sales" for this criterion. Checking for market capitalization instead will - all other things being equal - rate overvalued stocks higher than undervalued ones.

    Even the other rules mentioned here - such as dividend record, and PE & PB ratios - are all very different from what Graham actually recommended.

    Given below are the actual Graham ratings for Celgene Corp (CELG).

    Defensive Graham investment requires all the ratings to be at least 100%.
    Enterprising Graham investment requires the ratings to be at least - N/A, 75%, 90%, 50%, 5%, N/A and 137%.

    Celgene Corp - Defensive Graham Ratings
    Sales | Size (100% ⇒ $500 Million): 1,298.00%
    Current Assets ÷ [2 x Current Liabilities]: 194.05%
    Net Current Assets ÷ Long Term Debt: 133.56%
    Earnings Stability (100% ⇒ 10 Years): 50.00%
    Dividend Record (100% ⇒ 20 Years): 0.00%
    Earnings Growth (100% ⇒ 30% Growth): 1,401.21%
    Graham Number ÷ Previous Close: 26.00%

    Graham recommended various categories of stocks - Index, Defensive, Enterprising and NCAV. He emphasized that the secret of sound investment was the "Margin of Safety", and specified precise qualitative and quantitative rules for each category.

    Article 2: http://seekingalpha.co... explains how anyone can do a true 17-point Benjamin Graham assessment for 5000+ NYSE and NASDAQ stocks; with no adjustments other than those for inflation.
    Nov 14, 2014. 01:13 PM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • Update: Health Insurance Innovations' Growth Is Accelerating [View article]
    That makes sense, Mike Arnold.

    The earlier comment was not meant to imply that only Graham's methods are successful. Sincere apologies if it seemed so. There are many ways to invest successfully, of course.

    In fact, Buffett wrote in that article that even Graham's students rarely bought the same stocks. They all followed the same general principles but applied them in different ways.

    Munger's comments on Graham are well-known, but they run contrary to everything Buffett has ever said about Graham.

    Serenity's analyses are based on what Buffett has said about Graham, and on what Graham taught. After all, Buffett has been a life-long investor, Graham's protégé and the original founder of BRK in its current form.

    Thank you.
    Nov 13, 2014. 01:17 PM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • Update: Health Insurance Innovations' Growth Is Accelerating [View article]
    Thank you for your replies!

    Growth stocks, globalization and technological progress are the most common objections to Graham's principles. They've been around almost as long as the principles themselves.

    Globalization is actually not a recent phenomenon. In fact, IMF and the World Bank were formed early in the 19th century to regulate globalization.

    As for growth stocks, Graham's principles may not catch stocks like Amazon but then no other strategy can do so consistently either. Making money on such a stock is really no different from winning the lottery. It's purely a matter of luck.

    Graham's students don't look for lotteries. Instead, they follow strategies that are proven to consistently give good results for long periods of time. They may miss the outliers but eventually, they fare better than everyone else (in spite of ignoring "growth stocks").

    In fact, one might even say that to follow Graham is to stop looking for the lotteries, and to start treating investing as a business operation. Lotteries are exciting but ultimately, disappointing. Business is boring but eventually, very profitable.

    As for progress, it's important to understand the difference between principle and application.

    The application of principles may change with time, but the principles themselves remain the same and are the starting point on which one builds on (cars may have become faster, but wheels continue to be round).

    The Amsterdam Stock Exchange is 400+ years old. NYSE is 150+ years old. The proliferation of technology may have made stock markets more competitive in recent years, but the fundamental ways in which they function remain the same.

    Warren Buffett's article "The Superinvestors of Graham-and-Doddsville" gives a detailed explanation of why Graham's principles are timeless, and why his students are the world's most successful investors.

    In fact, Buffett even named his son after Graham, and describes Graham's book - The Intelligent Investor - as by "far the best book about investing ever written".

    Buffett ended his article saying:

    "Ships will sail around the world but the Flat Earth Society will flourish. There will continue to be wide discrepancies between price and value in the marketplace, and those who read their Graham & Dodd will continue to prosper."
    Nov 13, 2014. 07:27 AM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • Update: Health Insurance Innovations' Growth Is Accelerating [View article]
    With reference to the Benjamin Graham quote, given below are the actual Graham ratings for Health Insurance Innovations Inc (HIIQ).

    Defensive Graham investment requires all the ratings to be at least 100%.
    Enterprising Graham investment requires the ratings to be at least - N/A, 75%, 90%, 50%, 5%, N/A and 137%.

    Health Insurance Innovations Inc - Graham Ratings
    Sales | Size (100% ⇒ $500 Million): 11.33%
    Current Assets ÷ [2 x Current Liabilities]: 215.91%
    Net Current Assets ÷ Long Term Debt: 100.00%
    Earnings Stability (100% ⇒ 10 Years): 10.00%
    Dividend Record (100% ⇒ 20 Years): 0.00%
    Earnings Growth (100% ⇒ 30% Growth): 0.00%
    Graham Number ÷ Previous Close: 24.81%

    Warren Buffett once wrote an article explaining how Benjamin Graham's principles are everlasting, their results irrefutable, and his students consistently exceptional. It's called "The Superinvestors of Graham-and-Doddsville".

    But most of what Graham actually taught has been forgotten today, and things he warned against are often attributed to him instead. Even when Graham's recommended methods are used, they are heavily modified - often beyond recognition - to clear the stocks, rather than having the stocks clear them.

    Graham recommended various categories of stocks - Index, Defensive, Enterprising and NCAV. He emphasized that the secret of sound investment was the "Margin of Safety", and specified precise qualitative and quantitative rules for each category.

    http://seekingalpha.co... shows how anyone can do a true 17-point Benjamin Graham assessment for 5000+ NYSE and NASDAQ stocks; with no adjustments other than those for inflation.
    Nov 12, 2014. 03:56 PM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • Bemis Company, Inc. Dividend Stock Analysis [View article]
    Before being checked against the Graham Number, Benjamin Graham required that a stock first meet six other qualitative criteria.

    For example, given below are all Graham ratings for Bemis Company Inc (BMS).

    Defensive Graham investment requires all the ratings to be at least 100%.
    Enterprising Graham investment requires the ratings to be at least - N/A, 75%, 90%, 50%, 5%, N/A and 137%.

    Bemis Company Inc - Graham Ratings
    Sales | Size (100% ⇒ $500 Million): 1,006.00%
    Current Assets ÷ [2 x Current Liabilities]: 124.98%
    Net Current Assets ÷ Long Term Debt: 63.50%
    Earnings Stability (100% ⇒ 10 Years): 100.00%
    Dividend Record (100% ⇒ 20 Years): 100.00%
    Earnings Growth (100% ⇒ 30% Growth): 86.64%
    Graham Number ÷ Previous Close: 66.26%

    Graham also recommended using the past figures and not future estimates.
    In fact, he devised a separate formula to demonstrate why such estimates are never reliable.

    Article 1: http://seekingalpha.co... discusses that formula and its misuse today.

    Warren Buffett once wrote an article explaining how Benjamin Graham's principles are everlasting, their results irrefutable, and his students consistently exceptional. It's called "The Superinvestors of Graham-and-Doddsville".

    But most of what Graham actually taught has been forgotten today, and things he warned against are often attributed to him instead. Even when Graham's recommended methods are used, they are heavily modified - often beyond recognition - to clear the stocks, rather than having the stocks clear them.

    Graham recommended various categories of stocks - Index, Defensive, Enterprising and NCAV. He emphasized that the secret of sound investment was the "Margin of Safety", and specified precise qualitative and quantitative rules for each category.

    Article 2: http://seekingalpha.co... shows how anyone can do a true 17-point Benjamin Graham assessment for 5000+ NYSE and NASDAQ stocks; with no adjustments other than those for inflation.
    Nov 11, 2014. 07:57 AM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • Tracking Kahn Brothers Portfolio - Q3 2014 Update [View article]
    Benjamin Graham actually had such an overwhelming influence on his students that two of them - Warren Buffett and Irving Kahn - named their sons after Graham.

    Warren Buffett once wrote an article explaining how Benjamin Graham's principles are everlasting, their results irrefutable, and his students consistently exceptional. It's called "The Superinvestors of Graham-and-Doddsville". But most of what Graham actually taught has been forgotten today.

    Graham recommended various categories of stocks - Index, Defensive, Enterprising and NCAV. He emphasized that the secret of sound investment was the "Margin of Safety", and specified precise qualitative and quantitative rules for each category.

    For example, given below are the Graham ratings for Pfizer Inc (PFE).

    Defensive Graham investment requires all the ratings to be at least 100%.
    Enterprising Graham investment requires the ratings to be at least - N/A, 75%, 90%, 50%, 5%, N/A and 137%.

    Pfizer Inc - Defensive Graham Ratings
    Sales | Size (100% ⇒ $500 Million): 10,316.00%
    Current Assets ÷ [2 x Current Liabilities]: 120.35%
    Net Current Assets ÷ Long Term Debt: 107.93%
    Earnings Stability (100% ⇒ 10 Years): 100.00%
    Dividend Record (100% ⇒ 20 Years): 100.00%
    Earnings Growth (100% ⇒ 30% Growth): 104.88%
    Graham Number ÷ Previous Close: 75.56%

    The Final Graham Assessment for Pfizer Inc is also given below.
    The Quantitative Result (Intrinsic Value ÷ Previous Close) for a stock has to be 100% for true Graham investment.

    Pfizer Inc - Final Graham Assessment
    Defensive Price (Graham Number): $22.61
    Enterprising Price (Serenity Number): $0.00
    NCAV Price: $-6.19
    Qualitative Result: Excellent / Defensive
    Intrinsic Value: $22.61
    Previous Close: $29.92
    Quantitative Result: 75.57%

    http://seekingalpha.co... shows how one can do a true 17-point Benjamin Graham assessment for 5000+ NYSE and NASDAQ stocks; with no modifications other than adjustments for inflation.
    Nov 8, 2014. 09:22 AM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • Abbvie Inc. Trading At A Deep Discount, But With Risks [View article]
    Before being checked against the Graham Number, Benjamin Graham required that a stock first meet six other qualitative criteria.

    For example, given below are the actual Graham ratings for Abbvie Inc (ABBV).

    Defensive Graham investment requires all the ratings to be at least 100%.
    Enterprising Graham investment requires the ratings to be at least - N/A, 75%, 90%, 50%, 5%, N/A and 137%.

    Abbvie Inc - Graham Ratings
    Sales | Size (100% ⇒ $500 Million): 3,758.00%
    Current Assets ÷ [2 x Current Liabilities]: 129.73%
    Net Current Assets ÷ Long Term Debt: 76.76%
    Earnings Stability (100% ⇒ 10 Years): 20.00%
    Dividend Record (100% ⇒ 20 Years): 5.00%
    Earnings Growth (100% ⇒ 30% Growth): 0.00%
    Graham Number ÷ Previous Close: 22.14%

    Warren Buffett once wrote an article explaining how Benjamin Graham's principles are everlasting, their results irrefutable, and his students consistently exceptional. It's called "The Superinvestors of Graham-and-Doddsville".

    But most of what Graham actually taught has been forgotten today, and things he warned against are often attributed to him instead. Even when Graham's recommended methods are used, they are heavily modified - often beyond recognition - to clear the stocks, rather than having the stocks clear them.

    Graham recommended various categories of stocks - Index, Defensive, Enterprising and NCAV. He emphasized that the secret of sound investment was the "Margin of Safety", and specified precise qualitative and quantitative rules for each category.

    http://seekingalpha.co... explains how anyone can do an exact 17-point Benjamin Graham assessment for 5000+ NYSE and NASDAQ stocks; with no modifications other than adjustments for inflation.
    Nov 4, 2014. 08:45 AM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • Why You Need To Buy Cheap Stocks In 2015 [View article]
    While it's true that stock market speculation is no different from gambling, a true investment is actually a business operation.

    Benjamin Graham himself gave a very simple and clear definition for distinguishing between the investment and gambling:

    "An investment operation is one which, upon thorough analysis promises safety of principal and an adequate return. Operations not meeting these requirements are speculative."
    Chapter 1: Investment versus Speculation
    The Intelligent Investor, Benjamin Graham

    But most of what Graham actually taught has been forgotten today, and things he warned against are often attributed to him instead. Even when Graham's recommended methods are used, they are heavily modified - often beyond recognition - to clear the stocks, rather than having stocks clear them.

    For example, Graham also required NCAV stocks (or Net-Net stocks as they are popularly referred to) to also have positive TTM EPS figures.

    However, the simplistic NCAV stocks are only the most well-known of Graham's strategies, and the source of the general misconception that Graham recommended cheap stocks.

    Graham actually recommended various categories of stocks - Index, Defensive, Enterprising and NCAV. He emphasized that the secret of sound investment was the "Margin of Safety", and specified precise qualitative and quantitative rules for each category.

    http://seekingalpha.co... shows how to do a true 17-point Benjamin Graham assessment for 5000+ NYSE and NASDAQ stocks; with no modifications other than adjustments for inflation.
    Oct 27, 2014. 05:10 PM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • Dow Chemical Company Quarterly Stock Valuation [View article]
    Actually, since this article does not mention the Benjamin Graham formula, it has not been alluded to in Serenity's comment either. But perhaps it should be addressed, since the ModernGraham website lists the formula as one of the evaluation methods it uses.

    Intrinsic Value = EPS x (8.5 + 2xGrowth)

    Benjamin Graham gave the following warnings with this formula:
    1. "Warning: This material is supplied for illustrative purposes only".
    2. "Let the reader not be misled into thinking that such projections have any high degree of reliability".
    3. "Note that we do not suggest that this formula gives the “true value” of a growth stock".

    Graham only mentions this formula to demonstrate why such oversimplified growth estimates are unreliable. This formula is popular only due to a printing omission in recent editions of The Intelligent Investor.

    http://seekingalpha.co... discusses the issue in detail.

    On the other hand, Graham distinctly recommended the methods in the unmistakably named "Stock Selection" chapters. The article mentioned in the previous comment is about those methods.
    Oct 21, 2014. 05:40 PM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • 5 More Undervalued Companies For The Defensive Investor To Research [View article]
    Intrinsic Value = EPS x (8.5 + 2xGrowth)

    Benjamin Graham gave the following warnings with this formula:
    1. "Warning: This material is supplied for illustrative purposes only".
    2. "Let the reader not be misled into thinking that such projections have any high degree of reliability".
    3. "Note that we do not suggest that this formula gives the “true value” of a growth stock".

    Graham only mentions this formula to demonstrate why such oversimplified growth estimates are unreliable. This formula is popular only due to a printing omission in recent editions of The Intelligent Investor.

    Article 1: http://seekingalpha.co... discusses the issue in detail.

    Warren Buffett once wrote an article explaining how Benjamin Graham's principles are everlasting, their results irrefutable, and his students consistently exceptional. It's called "The Superinvestors of Graham-and-Doddsville".

    But most of what Graham actually taught has been forgotten today, and things he warned against are often attributed to him instead. The above formula is just one example.

    Even when Graham's recommended methods are used, they are heavily modified - often beyond recognition - to clear the stocks, rather than having stocks clear them.

    For example:
    "Adequate Size of Enterprise - market capitalization of at least $2 billion."

    Graham actually recommended "Not less than $100 million of annual sales" for this criteria. Checking for market capitalization instead will - all other things being equal - rate overvalued stocks higher than undervalued ones.

    Even the other rules mentioned here - such as dividend record, and PE & PB ratios - are all very different from what Graham actually recommended.

    Given below are the actual Graham ratings for Coach Inc (COH).

    Defensive Graham investment requires all the ratings to be at least 100%.
    Enterprising Graham investment requires the ratings to be at least - CA/2CL : 75%, NCA/LTD : 90%, EPS Stability: 50%, Div Record: 5% and GN/PC: 137%.

    Coach Inc - Defensive Graham Ratings
    Sales | Size (100% ⇒ $500 Million): 1,016.00%
    Current Assets ÷ [2 x Current Liabilities]: 143.31%
    Net Current Assets ÷ Long Term Debt: 269,680.00%
    Earnings Stability (100% ⇒ 10 Years): 100.00%
    Dividend Record (100% ⇒ 20 Years): 25.00%
    Earnings Growth (100% ⇒ 30% Growth): 253.72%
    Graham Number ÷ Previous Close: 73.14%

    The Final Graham Assessment for Coach Inc is also given below.
    The Quantitative Result (Intrinsic Value ÷ Previous Close) for a stock has to be 100% for true Graham investment.

    Coach Inc - Final Graham Assessment
    Defensive Price (Graham Number): $25.23
    Enterprising Price (Serenity Number): $16.94
    NCAV Price: $3.36
    Qualitative Result: Good / Enterprising
    Intrinsic Value: $16.94
    Previous Close: $34.49
    Quantitative Result: 49.12%

    Graham recommended various categories of stocks - Index, Defensive, Enterprising and NCAV. He emphasized that the secret of sound investment was the "Margin of Safety", and specified precise qualitative and quantitative rules for each category.

    Article 2: http://seekingalpha.co... shows how to do a true 17-point Benjamin Graham assessment for 5000+ NYSE and NASDAQ stocks; with no modifications other than adjustments for inflation.
    Oct 19, 2014. 04:13 PM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • For Buy-And-Hold Investors, It's Really Hard To Lose Money In The Stock Market (Part I) [View article]
    Absolutely, Minutemen.

    Nice work on the article!
    Oct 15, 2014. 01:35 PM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • For Buy-And-Hold Investors, It's Really Hard To Lose Money In The Stock Market (Part I) [View article]
    The idea is "buy and hold", not "hold forever".

    The stock market took 25 years to recover from the crash of 1929.
    To have held on to all equity investments at such market levels would have been foolhardy.

    Graham advocated varying one's holdings between 25% and 75% depending on market levels.
    75% in stocks in undervalued markets.
    75% in bonds in overvalued ones.

    The idea of "buy and hold" is to buy stocks for investment, not speculation.
    That includes selling them once they exceed their calculated worth.
    Oct 15, 2014. 07:51 AM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
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