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Here's an interesting twist on the employment picture: Dentists across the country are noticing...

  • Friday, March 2, 2012, 7:45 PM ET
    Here's an interesting twist on the employment picture: Dentists across the country are noticing an increase in new patients coming through the door. Why? More people with health insurance as a result of getting full-time jobs.
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This news story has 116 comments:

  • That sure sounds bullish...
    2 Mar 2012, 07:47 PM Reply Like
  • Don't jump to conclusions. This phenomena is called deferred dental maintenance. For past several years some people ignored periodic cleanings and tooth care and now have a mouth full of rot. The increase in dental activity is in part from people desperate to have their teeth extracted because the pain has become unbearable. Go talk to a few dentists and they will validate my point.
    2 Mar 2012, 09:19 PM Reply Like
  • LOL people are still trying to tout an economic recovery no matter how ridiculous.
    2 Mar 2012, 07:47 PM Reply Like
  • Have you checked out new car sales, many up 40%. Retail sales up, sales taxes collected up, etc.
    Turn off Fake News TV and talk to real working people.
    2 Mar 2012, 08:20 PM Reply Like
  • That doesn't make it a recovery, a recovery happens when people have jobs. 8.9% is the fake number if you want to talk numbers.
    2 Mar 2012, 08:25 PM Reply Like
  • Its called channel stuffing. Don't know where you live Terry, but the people I talk to on west coast aren't that bullish. You're obviously getting your data from somewhere, what makes you so sure its not from a "fake source." Most people don't want to face reality, they want this dream world where we can pay out $1.5 trillion a year more than what we spend and somehow manage the interest payment on 16.2 trillion in debt. Of which, we'll have added 5 trillion by end of this year. That must be more fake news.....
    2 Mar 2012, 09:24 PM Reply Like
  • new car sales = cars sitting on dealers lots
    3 Mar 2012, 02:05 AM Reply Like
  • j457
    Whatever is posted by Terry comes directly from the dnc and media matters talking points for the day. Never a thoughtful comment just lefty BS.
    3 Mar 2012, 09:07 AM Reply Like
  • If the numbers get better, then they get better, whether it fits any particular political viewpoint or not.
    3 Mar 2012, 09:05 PM Reply Like
  • Comedy.
    2 Mar 2012, 07:48 PM Reply Like
  • Maybe there are less dentists. Why can't we ever get numbers on anything?
    2 Mar 2012, 07:57 PM Reply Like
  • if measured by this indicator I am in bull rally
    2 Mar 2012, 08:00 PM Reply Like
  • You will not find this one on Fox News, that is for sure.
    2 Mar 2012, 08:09 PM Reply Like
  • Because its ridiculous?
    2 Mar 2012, 08:12 PM Reply Like
  • Yes, it is ridiculous and it is clearly something that the current administration wanted out there for the public to see.
    I was being serious in my above comment, not sarcastic.
    2 Mar 2012, 08:21 PM Reply Like
  • Lots of dental scams going in here in Texas, at least. Free braces for every welfare kid. And I do mean every welfare kids. Sending vans out into the barrios to find 'em. Also advertising on the side of school buses. Like everything else in the country, its a scam.
    2 Mar 2012, 08:10 PM Reply Like
  • Must be somehow connected to the government paying for it, if there is any truth to the headline. Last time we checked dentists were very expensive and not something most average american consumers can afford.
    2 Mar 2012, 08:42 PM Reply Like
  • I was a welfare kid who got free dental back in the day.

    Free dental care for kids is a high payback investment - dental disease is the leading cause of illness, lost school days etc. among kids. In fact dental diseases is the commonest condition affecting kids and is preventable. No child should miss a day of school or be afflicted with this.

    Free dental care for pregnant women - especially single mothers is important - poor dental hygiene is the leading cause of low birth weight and premature babies - you reduce that and you save big bucks

    Crooked teeth can create jaw problems but it is also well known that straight teeth improve the chances having a better paying job and getting out of poverty.

    Free dental is a good investment. It is misguided to punish children and divert resources away from them. They should always be high priority.

    E
    2 Mar 2012, 10:09 PM Reply Like
  • When you say free, you mean the dentists should volunteer their time to provide the care? Or do you mean that the taxpayer should pay the bill? While I do agree, the kids should receive care, we both know no service in life is free.
    2 Mar 2012, 10:27 PM Reply Like
  • I had a conversation with someone from Denmark the other day, and she was saying how great it is for free healthcare, and free transportation and free college. I asked her what her income tax rate is...40%, middle income, then I asked what is the sales tax there? She said 28%. I asked how much is your 1 bedroom apartment? $3,000 USD. Then I asked her, you still think its all for free?
    2 Mar 2012, 10:31 PM Reply Like
  • then you asked: what kind of car do you drive? She replied, i can't afford a car because the new car registration tax in Denmark is 180% of the cost of the car +VAT.

    http://bit.ly/wluLLc-

    base model chevy cruze: in round numbers $58,000 !
    3 Mar 2012, 12:43 AM Reply Like
  • free to the patient.
    a good use of taxpayers money.

    highly leveraged and great payback. much better than ethanol subsidies or payments for green energy or to oil companies

    E
    3 Mar 2012, 01:04 AM Reply Like
  • ED,
    It's never free ... it's just paid for via taxes and via the government. And in fact they do have it in every OCED country in the world. It's called national healthcare programs or to the right winger's it's called socialized medicine. The US is the only country in the western economies that does not.

    Of course it's a good investment and so would a national healthcare program be as well. But it's like everything else, such would not maximize the incomes of the vested interests in the healthcare industry, so it will never happen in the US until it bankrupts the country first.

    For those who doubt it, look at Holland. Holland had an almost identical healthcare system to the US about a decade ago and it was bankrupting the country. Holland moved to a national healthcare program which is entirely run by the private health insurers in Holland. The government just sets prices. Has resulted in dramatic improvements in Hollands healthcare system and costs according to all involved including: government, health insurers, healthcare industry, and citizens.
    3 Mar 2012, 02:04 AM Reply Like
  • What do you mean by free? You do realize, nothing is free in this world. right?
    3 Mar 2012, 02:06 AM Reply Like
  • econdoc
    Nobody should get anything for "free". Sweep the streets, mow the grass in the park, just make the receivers of "free" stuff do something in return.
    If the braces for the kids are "free" then have the parents do something.
    3 Mar 2012, 09:12 AM Reply Like
  • I understand very well there is a cost associated with any free program. However since you persist in demonstrating a level of obtuseness typical of most ideologues and party robots I will now attempt to explain.

    For those of you seeking alpha - there is no alpha in what follows.

    These are the issues we need to understand in relation to public expenditures

    1. Wants and needs are unlimited but resources are finite
    2. Priorities
    3. ROI

    Sadly for you and lot of others like you on the right and the left - you only partially understand

    Starting with the obvious - yes everything must be paid for. In that context there is an optimal level of government or taxpayer provided services (of any kind) and an optimal level of taxation to deliver it. The answer to services can never be "none" or "womb to tomb" and the answer on taxes can never be 0% or over 60%. This is so self-evident but it must be said since neither side is able to see the issues as anything other than an all or nothing debate.

    As a society we all contribute to and pay for defense, police, public education, etc. These seem to have some value. We al want to be safe and we all believe that educating children to a basic standard is a good idea. I am not going to get into the provision of those services - that is a whole other topic - for example I am big proponent of public education but believe that parents should be given vouchers and be free to choose where they send their kids - others strongly disagree with that point of view.

    ROI. Some expenditures have very large payback. In that context not only are they free but they actually payback to society. Again returning to education - it is easy to understand this concept. You invest in a child's education and that child can go on to bigger and better things - this seems self evident.

    Priorities.
    This is an important point. So pay attention. Up to a certain point and if spent on the high ROI stuff expenditures tax payer funded expenditures create very large social goods and downstream investments.

    Dental Health for children to the age of 21 is one such area. Avoiding lost days of school or very expensive emergency room visits by children (which are paid for) are simple examples of the large benefits of such a program. The benefits far outweigh the costs. It should be provided free and funded by taxpayers.

    One that is in the news now and controversially for many- the Oral Contraceptive Pill - providing this free to all females over the age of 16 could create large social goods. This is public health issue - the avoidance of unwanted pregnancies and the increase in productivity generally should be weighed. Giving all women the ability to choose when they conceive may enable many to lift themselves and their families out of poverty. As an aside - I find Limbaugh's (jackass) comments reprehensible - not only because they are derogatory to women but also because they are stupid and miss the point - contraception is not about sex - it is about equality.

    Sadly neither of these high ROI spends are funded - let's turn to some others that are

    Medicare covers Viagra and other ED treatments. It is the God given right for everyman to get a boner but is it a priority worth spending tax payer money? Where is the ROI? For those of you are who are hard core Christian consertavies - this will really bake your noodles - what if the man is homosexual? How do you feel about funding his lifestyle? Do you like that? Just messing with you. I say the ROI is low. How about we stop paying for it? Just take it off the list.

    Medicare also covers Dialysis. Treating this is about $100k per year per person. End Stage Renal Disease is a terrible condition - but if you cannot pay for it should society pick up the tab? I doubt it.

    End of life care. Most health care costs are spent in the last year of life in a futile attempt to prolong it. As a doctor I have a living will and strict instructions to turn the machines off. We should make this choice easier for people by just not paying it - or giving them a life time max. You go over it and you are on your own.

    If all of this evokes talk of "death panels" then so be it. Go ahead. But it is clear to al that limits must be set and priorities created and managed to. These are hard choices and serious ones. They need to be made and require rational discusion, cclear eyed evaluation and compromise by all sides. What we don't need is emotional discussions religion. This is not about that. There are some expenditures that have high payback that effectively do become free - by providing a benefit or avoiding other costs and there are others that are highly questionable. Poor children do not have lobbyists working for them - drug companies and others do. At the moment choices are made without regard to economics but with an over reliance on vested interests and religous (non economic) arguements. This has to change if we are to not become overburdened by taxes and to provide for those where needs are greatest.

    E
    3 Mar 2012, 09:17 AM Reply Like
  • terry
    Was the meal paid for with your welfare card or food stamp card?
    3 Mar 2012, 09:29 AM Reply Like
  • Good morning Doc. Gov't social programs may well be worth the investment, if only because they save more gov't expense down the line. Where I live, it is doubtful that many recipients of gov't social welfare ever become productive, income tax paying citizens. In the last fifty years, social welfare programs have exploded and the recipients have increased proportionately. The subsidies have created a permanent underclass content to live on the dole and the underground economy. I understand the compassion behind income redistribution and the fairness argument, but I do not believe gov't should be in the charity business and neither the framers of the Constitution. It is also nonsense to speak about taxpayer funded programs. There are no taxpayers alive today who will ever pay the debt service on the deficit.
    3 Mar 2012, 09:32 AM Reply Like
  • You want to compare Holland with 16.4 million people with the U.S. 300 million people?

    Lets compare Obamacare with Romneycare then.

    Romney mandated coverage of 8% of the population of Mass.
    Mass - 6.4 million x .08 = 528,000 people on Romneycare

    Obamacare mandated coverage 100% of US citizens
    300 million people

    So even Holland's healthcare system cannot even come close to the cost of what Obamacare will cost and it doesn't even do what Holland or Canada's system does.

    So how can you compare these things together when the numbers are so far skewed, they are in the same category but far from an apples to apples comparison.
    3 Mar 2012, 12:07 PM Reply Like
  • Maybe the best solution is free toothpaste and tooth brushes. If you can get kids to use them.:-)
    3 Mar 2012, 02:34 PM Reply Like
  • man,
    Ever heard of per capita comparisons? That's how everyone in the real world compares results and performance.
    3 Mar 2012, 04:05 PM Reply Like
  • Well let me tell you something. When I was in school, a few of the kids in the class had braces. Now, entire classes have braces. Thats the taxpayer paying. Braces are cosmetic, and have nothing to do per se, with disease. Crooked teeth may look unsightly, just like a crooked nose, but I guess soon everyone will get a nosejob at the taxpayer expense. I also know of a dentist who runs one of these scams. He has 2 Gulfstream jets. He sends vans into the barrio to do day jobs. A news report just found kids who hadnt lost their baby teeth already had welfare braces. They had rotted teeth hanging in the wires. It is a scam. Your braces were free for you, but they werent free.
    3 Mar 2012, 06:02 PM Reply Like
  • If you remove the teeth, you won't have to pay to straighten them either.

    Yet a 4th benefit to my earlier suggestion posted below.
    3 Mar 2012, 06:05 PM Reply Like
  • Of course, but to see a numbers to number comparison puts it into perspective and gives it more context to someone who might think Canada and the US have equal populations.
    3 Mar 2012, 06:41 PM Reply Like
  • wyo

    Work build self esteem. It is good for people.
    4 Mar 2012, 12:11 AM Reply Like
  • My wife works at a dental office - poor dental care can lead to multiple health problems later in life. Her office will treat certian patients gratis.
    4 Mar 2012, 09:25 PM Reply Like
  • President Obama's plan for America is a big success, just today the restaurant I went for lunch was full, three years ago is almost closed.
    2 Mar 2012, 08:17 PM Reply Like
  • Obama - I will cut the Deficit by HALF in my first term.
    2 Mar 2012, 08:23 PM Reply Like
  • Oh well that sells it. Gosh, what has Obama done different from George Bush? NOTHING!
    2 Mar 2012, 08:46 PM Reply Like
  • Ahh good point. More on the "plan".....

    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies.
    Over the past 5 years, our federal debt has increased by $3.5 trillion to $8.6 trillion.That is “trillion” with a “T.” That is money that we have borrowed from the Social Security trust fund, borrowed from China and Japan, borrowed from American taxpayers. And over the next 5 years, between now and 2011, the President’s budget will increase the debt by almost another $3.5 trillion.
    Numbers that large are sometimes hard to understand. Some people may wonder why they matter. Here is why: This year, the Federal Government will spend $220 billion on interest. That is more money to pay interest on our national debt than we’ll spend on Medicaid and the State Children’s Health Insurance Program. That is more money to pay interest on our debt this year than we will spend on education, homeland security, transportation, and veterans benefits combined. It is more money in one year than we are likely to spend to rebuild the devastated gulf coast in a way that honors the best of America.
    And the cost of our debt is one of the fastest growing expenses in the Federal budget. This rising debt is a hidden domestic enemy, robbing our cities and States of critical investments in infrastructure like bridges, ports, and levees; robbing our families and our children of critical investments in education and health care reform; robbing our seniors of the retirement and health security they have counted on.
    Every dollar we pay in interest is a dollar that is not going to investment in America’s priorities."
    Senator Barack Obama
    Senate Floor Speech on Public Debt
    March 16, 2006
    2 Mar 2012, 09:27 PM Reply Like
  • Just goes to show that all politicians, regardless of party, are just outright liars and only act in their own self interest.
    2 Mar 2012, 09:36 PM Reply Like
  • Revel in the misery madav, who's comparing apples and oranges?
    2 Mar 2012, 09:53 PM Reply Like
  • I know what you mean Terry! The year before Obama was elected I came down w/ the flu. Since Obama's election, no flu. This can only reasonably be attributable to Obamacare. Proof it works!
    2 Mar 2012, 11:47 PM Reply Like
  • Terry, You are 100% correct. He saved this country from financial crises.
    3 Mar 2012, 06:20 AM Reply Like
  • Terry

    A lot of other restaurants are closed. Duh!
    4 Mar 2012, 12:12 AM Reply Like
  • Hilarious how one cannot take their own advice. As I said, what has he done different from GW? Nothing, he has only continued down the same path listening to all the wrong people.
    4 Mar 2012, 12:58 AM Reply Like
  • madav1138:

    Bush killed over 5 million people from Iraq and over 60,000 young service men and women. Obama did not do that.
    7 Mar 2012, 11:53 AM Reply Like
  • Tiger

    Bush killed over 60K service men and women?

    What is your source for that number?
    7 Mar 2012, 12:26 PM Reply Like
  • tigersam
    Wild exaggerations diminish any credibility your comment may otherwise have had. To be taken seriously , stop it.
    7 Mar 2012, 01:00 PM Reply Like
  • he killed 60,000 service men and women?
    7 Mar 2012, 06:10 PM Reply Like
  • Just as with 2010, (as we apprach elections) You should expect more such "Data" from Tigerscam in the the comming months.

    If it were not true, why would he say it?
    7 Mar 2012, 06:14 PM Reply Like
  • TVP:

    Look at the population of Iraq after war. Also Obma killed just one person that is Osama Bin Landen.
    8 Mar 2012, 12:45 PM Reply Like
  • Madav1138:

    Yes our troops. He send them on the war.
    8 Mar 2012, 12:46 PM Reply Like
  • Jalopy:

    That is the fact.
    8 Mar 2012, 12:46 PM Reply Like
  • Tiger

    Service men and women refer to our armed forces and we did not have over 60K killed.

    Obama has continued Bush policies for better or worse so not sure what you are trying to insulate him from.
    8 Mar 2012, 03:26 PM Reply Like
  • You are nuts. Tell me where you got this number from?

    Are you talking about wounded or killed? Maybe your english is getting in the way of what you are trying to say.
    8 Mar 2012, 03:59 PM Reply Like
  • OR more people are losing their jobs and getting on state welfare plans that offer dental. I know in MN a deadbeat pays $20/month for full health AND dental.
    2 Mar 2012, 08:44 PM Reply Like
  • I pay $1,000 a month out of pocket for health. And another $300 month for sons braces. And I still pay my mortgage and the other bills. Guess if I was smart I'd stop working, sign up for free food and soon to be gas, and free health care and go pan for gold all day. I believe in helping those less fortunate than I, but some of this is just getting plain ridiculous. Its as though there is incentive not to be a responsible honest adult.
    2 Mar 2012, 09:33 PM Reply Like
  • "Its as though there is incentive not to be a responsible honest adult. "

    Bingo! The sex, drugs and rock and roll generation is in charge.
    2 Mar 2012, 09:52 PM Reply Like
  • When the revolution comes, you'll know what side you're on.
    2 Mar 2012, 09:57 PM Reply Like
  • A grand a month for health care, and you'r OK with that? I have a nice PPO plan at work. It only costs me $550 a month for myself, my wife and my son, which I consider outrageous. If you're broke, you can get health care, along with food stamps and other programs. It's not a fun life but you'll survive. If you make a lot of money, you can afford the health care, school costs and so on. Being in the middle just sucks. $6-7 G's a year for health care is a bunch of money if you make $60-70K. Housing, transportation, taxes, school etc. you are basically scraping by. It beats trying to live on food stamps and unemployment but not by much.
    7 Mar 2012, 07:58 PM Reply Like
  • They could save money with a "One Time" benefit to remove the teeth to avoid future health problems ( per Econdoc)

    These savings will also save on future Obesity programs, and food stamps, as these people won't be able to eat much without teeth.

    About 3 problems solved, all at once.

    It is only common sense.
    2 Mar 2012, 10:29 PM Reply Like
  • Cruel, just plain cruel. How about; assemble one IPad for every tooth filled? Or fill one pot hole for every $10 ETB credit? Or everyone pay taxes to pay for all these "free" services?
    2 Mar 2012, 10:52 PM Reply Like
  • I don't buy it. A lot of health insurance plans don't even cover dental, or if they do it is an extra cost. And most dental insurance is not that great, all but the high premium ones only cover about half the cost.

    So I go with the poster that said people are doing now what they should have done last year or two ago, but could not afford.
    2 Mar 2012, 11:24 PM Reply Like
  • 46.5 million on food stamps is what I call a recovery. Are dentists exchanging SNAP cards for dental care? I provide medical to my employees but not dental. A cleaning once a year costs around $100 or 27 cents per day.
    3 Mar 2012, 03:17 AM Reply Like
  • On exhibit A: Terry.


    Vivid proof of our decaying public school system.
    3 Mar 2012, 03:29 AM Reply Like
  • I'd like to know more about where the data comes from that suggests that. I thought dentistry was a very fragmented industry and so it was expensive to gather data from so many points.
    One word of caution though: when a person believes his job is at risk, he makes the most of the benefits he has while he is working. If there is a question mark about your job existing at the end of March, you take your annual checkup now, and send the kids to the dentist for a cleaning and check up.
    3 Mar 2012, 03:34 AM Reply Like
  • Is the source of the data reliable? I would imagine that the dentist industry is fragmented and gathering the data difficult.
    what is the correlation to the trend in unemployment? Personal bias is that I send the family to the dentist & for annual checkups if I think the job & the insurance will not be there in the future.
    3 Mar 2012, 03:44 AM Reply Like
  • oh yea
    3 Mar 2012, 04:18 AM Reply Like
  • Please do not forget, these people are going to dentist with iphone and Ipad.
    3 Mar 2012, 06:22 AM Reply Like
  • Not noted on Friday was the increase of people on SNAP (food stamps) to a new record 46.5 million....and US debt crosses the $15.5 Trillion mark.

    The best indicator of US 'health' (economic)...current account balance.
    Out of 192 countries...US is dead last.
    http://bit.ly/xD0mUT

    US dead last in balance of payments:
    http://bit.ly/y1jpiT
    Oh yea all is well......
    3 Mar 2012, 07:15 AM Reply Like
  • Or tired of not having a full time job and realize it's time to clean up. Wait till they start paying taxes; trips to the dentist will again be the last thing on their minds.
    3 Mar 2012, 07:32 AM Reply Like
  • the dentists should be grateful to the junk food and soft drink companies. There was a documentary on raccoons on TV recently: when they live in the woods, their normal habitat, they teeth are perfect. When they move into the cities and suburbs, as they are doing in droves, they develop tooth decay, obesity, and heart disease.
    We are what we eat (and drink).
    3 Mar 2012, 08:11 AM Reply Like
  • A lot of dental care, at least in Connecticut where I live, is discretionary - cosmetic dentistry.

    I can remeber waiting in the chair while my dentist had a long conversation with a mother who was concerned about having her teenage son's teeth whitened. I suppose there would be benefits, that glowing smile, keep up with the other kids, etc.

    So it could just be the upper middle class and wealthy, back to buying luxury items, in this case, cosmetic dentistry.

    Meanwhile longevity is fairly well predicted by how many teeth you still have. Bad teeth leads to heart problems, etc. So it would be really nice if every child in the country had adequate dental care.
    3 Mar 2012, 10:02 AM Reply Like
  • Lol.., I guess the Chevy volts failure which is contributing to "temporary" laying workers of at the GM plant was part of BO's master plan.. If you believe that the economy is jump starting b/c dentists are receiving a patient influx and restaurants are at a cooking frenzy then your REALITY IMPAIRED.

    I guess the surge in new patients is why I never got to see more than $20K in Fed Taxes this year..., now I know where they went. 1980-XLS 2.0 you're a genius btw...
    3 Mar 2012, 10:48 AM Reply Like
  • Here is Gm's explanation for low sales of the Volt:

    ""GM blamed the lack of sales in January on “exaggerated” media reports and the federal government's investigation into Volt batteries catching fire, which officially began in November and ended Jan. 21," the Ann Arbor (Mich.) News reported".

    You can't make this s**t up.
    3 Mar 2012, 11:23 AM Reply Like
  • For the Volt, the problem is the price. It's nearly $15,000 more expensive than competing hybrids.
    8 Mar 2012, 02:40 PM Reply Like
  • Lots of self-flagellation going on here.

    Perhaps the can-do people who actually build things and keep the country humming do not have time to come to this neighborhood.

    Those who think that this country is last in everything should spend a few days in Mumbai or Manila or Mombasa.
    3 Mar 2012, 10:51 AM Reply Like
  • varan
    the whole point is that America should never be compared with Mumbi or Manila or Mombasa. Unfortunetely we are slipping fast, though hopefully not to those levels.

    Just what can Americans expect when the rediculous debt we have run up has to dealt with in a crisis mode? We all know that until there is sereve crisis the debt will just be ignored.

    Perhaps when a few more cities file chapter 11 and no more retiree benefits are paid that will be catalyst.
    3 Mar 2012, 11:28 AM Reply Like
  • But when (the generic) you say that America is last in this and in that, there is no ambiguity: you are saying exactly that we are no better than those god forsaken places.

    For conservatives, the distance from Obama hatred to America hatred seems to be shortening everyday.
    3 Mar 2012, 01:27 PM Reply Like
  • When we had that severe crisis in Oct 2008-March 2009, instead of tearing down the financial system, both Bush and Obama felt it was better to spend trillions to bail out those insolvent banks. We could have rebuilt the entire system on a new firm solid foundation if they would have simply wound them down. Now, almost four years later we have half a dozen zombie banks that continue to need constant govt assistance to survive. Its really too bad, we (the politicians) had our chance and once again bowed to the corporate interest instead of the citizens of the USA.
    3 Mar 2012, 09:45 PM Reply Like
  • The high "debt" load did not hurt us after world war II and it won't hurt us now. The Government is the creator of money. It prints it. You think this "debt" needs to be paid back?? If you do, then you should study monetary policy.

    The debt is ignored because it SHOULD be ignored. It's just a political (not economic) talking point.
    3 Mar 2012, 11:57 AM Reply Like
  • Tell that to Stockton Ca which just filed bankruptcy.

    Also, if your statement is true, then why do countries pay interest on their sovereign debt? Whar causes inflation?

    Get a history lesson son.
    3 Mar 2012, 12:06 PM Reply Like
  • That's responsible, you do follow the same philosophy with your student loans?
    3 Mar 2012, 12:32 PM Reply Like
  • Almost immediately after WW2, the debt and deficit was actively substantially reduced, and very quickly. I see nothing like that happening now.
    3 Mar 2012, 01:12 PM Reply Like
  • I bought 'war' bonds to help finance the war and then paid taxes to pay off my bonds. We had more taxpayers then (percentage wise). I still paid income taxes when I was making $2,000 per year. (See what inflation did?)
    3 Mar 2012, 02:42 PM Reply Like
  • Texan - you will love this 1943 clip then http://bit.ly/wMIoVz
    3 Mar 2012, 03:13 PM Reply Like
  • PERHAPS WE NEED TO TELL GREECE AS WELL.
    3 Mar 2012, 03:23 PM Reply Like
  • windsun33
    Thanks for the clip. Send it to Buffet.
    How long before we hear something similiar from the administration?
    3 Mar 2012, 03:35 PM Reply Like
  • Bylo,

    That's not entirely true about the debt not needing to be paid back. Most people don't understand who the USA is indebted to. The great majority of the debt is owed to ourselves. So if the debt is not repaid, that 401k or IRA or pension you are relying upon later in life may not funded. Then you must factor in the amount of money the govt/taxpayer will allocate to paying the interest on this debt.

    Think operation twist and zirp is all about housing? Not a chance. Its also about servicing the debt. 30 yr t-bills at 3% interest when they should be over 10%. When the rate goes back to historical norms, how much more of your taxpayer dollar will be spent servicing 16.2 trillion of debt?

    Like your medi-care and Social Security and your low tax rate? With rates at normal levels the govt will have some choices. 1) Tax you a lot more to pay the interest on the debt 2) Cut services and entitlements and use the money to pay interest on debt 3) Default.

    Any way you slice it, the debt is a BIG issue and not to be misunderstood, and all should be concerned.
    3 Mar 2012, 09:55 PM Reply Like
  • Bill,
    In case you have never been told it is considered YELLING if you type in all CAPS.
    Kinda like cussing, if you do it for effect it works but if you do it all the time you just look ignorant...
    3 Mar 2012, 09:58 PM Reply Like
  • Yes, windsun. Brings back memories.
    3 Mar 2012, 11:15 PM Reply Like
  • Bylo

    You don't know what you are talking about. There is no other explanation for one of the worst posts on SA in years.
    4 Mar 2012, 12:18 AM Reply Like
  • Not only were we deep in debt, but we also bailed Europe out in the form of the Marshall Plan. Talk about political bombshells.
    7 Mar 2012, 10:42 AM Reply Like
  • Krugman has created a new account Identity.

    Its called: ByloSelhi
    3 Mar 2012, 12:11 PM Reply Like
  • 1980...
    I thought it was terry.
    3 Mar 2012, 12:15 PM Reply Like
  • Debt is indeed a problem, but only when a Democrat is the President.

    Not a whisper was heard from these folks when Dick Cheney famously proclaimed that Reagan proved that deficits don't matter.

    Obama hatred will drive these guys to insanity if it already has not. At least their God - four time married and off label Viagra aficionado - Limbaugh is already on the borderline and is about to cross over to la la land within a few more outbursts.
    3 Mar 2012, 03:29 PM Reply Like
  • varan: You are falling into the very trap laid by the symbiotic political parties. Bush was universally hated by many of my cohort and they give Barry O a pass. This dichotomy is necessary for the two party system to maintain its hold on the country. The parties are two sides of the same coin. We have met the enemy and it is us.
    3 Mar 2012, 04:29 PM Reply Like
  • False equivalence.

    I refuse to engage in 'woe is us, we are the enemy' nonsense.

    There are objective criteria that we can use to judge the performance of Presidents.
    3 Mar 2012, 06:53 PM Reply Like
  • Deficits matter in terms of debt to GDP. The context that you leave out is that Cheney was referring to the debt of $450 billion being only 5% or less of GDP. That is sustainable and is easily paid off, if they were able to shore up the war in a few years, which didn't work out.

    Obama, has run the debt up to 100% of GDP and doesn't seem to care about the example being laid before him in Europe. He is too busy leading from behind, and leading us into the same debt trap they set. Instead of using foresight, he uses hindsight.
    3 Mar 2012, 07:00 PM Reply Like
  • Surely, you don't mean like;


    -annual accumulated national debt

    -Unemployment rates.

    -Gasoiline Prices

    -Dollar debasement

    -Food prices


    -Food stamp recipient statistics.

    -Downgrades of US soveriegn debt.

    -Percentage of Americans living in poverty

    I could go on, but it may crash the SA servers as the list is simply too extensive.


    What metrics exactly are you using?
    3 Mar 2012, 07:01 PM Reply Like
  • Yeah, GWB had nothing to do with any of these. As soon as Obama came to White House things changed in a single day.

    I look at the change from 2009 - what he inherited - to today.

    S&P 500 up 61%.

    Taking care of Osama bin Ladin. (remember the 'I don't know where he is'?)

    Also, the reversal of the job bleeding

    http://bit.ly/yeSWoL
    3 Mar 2012, 07:26 PM Reply Like
  • I am not defending Bush, but you misrepresent facts by taking comments out of context.

    Lets examine what you just said:

    He inherited a crisis, which he simply continued to do what Bush recommended...TARP, that was Bush.

    S&P 500 up 61%, loose monetary policy and 0% interest rates makes the stock market the only place to put money. Savings account you lose money on inflation alone.

    Osama was killed using Rendition, which also was a Bush policy that Obama used and benefited from, even after attempting to shut down the program, and GITMO.

    Reversal of job bleeding is simply the markets taking care of itself. 1% decrease in unemployment is nothing to write home about, and one quarter 80k in jobs was McDonald's alone. Presidents don't create jobs, they just take credit for it.

    So your points are so hollow and weak, it will be a miracle that your hero president is re-elected.
    3 Mar 2012, 07:33 PM Reply Like
  • Haha!

    The CIA unit tasked to take care of Osama was shut down in 2005. It was revived by Obama.

    That alone kills all your credibility.

    Typical wingnut reaction. Anything good under a Democratic President has nothing to do with the President. This is what I expected you to say.

    Anyway, I do not consider Obama a hero. I am, however, very aware of the Obama hatred that continues to rot the brains of conservatives and listeners of Rush Hannity Beck.
    3 Mar 2012, 07:57 PM Reply Like
  • Varan,

    You are a very loyal Sheeple.

    They really need you.


    Mission Accomplished.
    3 Mar 2012, 08:00 PM Reply Like
  • varan: Again, we hear your Democrat crap. I hold no brief for Republicans. They are junior varsity Democrats. Go read the Constitution and argue that anything Progressives have instituted is Constitutional. If you read your history, you will learn that even the 16th Amendment was a sham. It's passage was railroaded, much like Obamacare, and of equally dubious legitimacy.
    3 Mar 2012, 08:17 PM Reply Like
  • I didn't mention any task force, I said it was Rendition which you don't know anything about obviously.
    3 Mar 2012, 08:37 PM Reply Like
  • very funny.

    is that you hannity?
    3 Mar 2012, 08:57 PM Reply Like
  • This is my fault for arguing with idiots.
    3 Mar 2012, 09:02 PM Reply Like
  • yeah. all the idiots who are with you have no facts on their side, no arguments, no points - just the ability to regurgitate the nonsense fed by the Oxycontin induced Rush and the certified fool hannity.
    3 Mar 2012, 09:21 PM Reply Like
  • Varan=Sheeple

    Status quo's dream.

    It's working.
    3 Mar 2012, 09:27 PM Reply Like
  • Where are you coming from? Seriously you have not made any valid points at all.

    I miss Bush, at least you could count on him doing what he said. If he said he was gonna kill you, you could bank on it.

    I also miss the 5% unemployment rate.
    3 Mar 2012, 09:44 PM Reply Like
  • Debt will be a problem for this country at the current levels no matter who is in office. It is no longer an issue at the margins and is already driving economic dislocations in our economy. When it really hits home how big our SSA unfunded liability is that will be a huge impact. Last I seen it was $17 Trillion.

    It has been observed that when a nation's debt equals or exceeds its GDP it results in slower growth. Which then drives high UE. We are experiencing this now.
    4 Mar 2012, 12:24 AM Reply Like
  • Rendition is whisking away a live body to an unknown site for interrogation. I don't think a live body was whisked away.
    7 Mar 2012, 10:51 AM Reply Like
  • He used rendition on other subjects that lead to Osama's inner circle. Then they use water-boarding techniques to get the information out of the person who had the knowledge.
    7 Mar 2012, 06:14 PM Reply Like
  • Geoffster,

    Please don't burst the Sheeple's bubble.


    They need to believe in something.
    3 Mar 2012, 04:32 PM Reply Like
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