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Bernstein and FBR air a familiar refrain about Apple's (AAPL) Tuesday FQ3 report: They're...

  • Friday, July 20, 2012, 5:29 PM ET
    Bernstein and FBR air a familiar refrain about Apple's (AAPL) Tuesday FQ3 report: They're worried Apple could miss estimates and issue weak FQ4 guidance, but are staying bullish on expectations of a huge FQ1. Bernstein thinks China and Europe's macro issues, the late introduction of a MacBook refresh, and the failure of the new iPad to launch in China until today will lead to an FQ3 miss. Of course, this week has seen several tech large-caps rally after posting mediocre results.
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This news story has 30 comments:

  • Ahhh... analysts never change, don't they?

    China and Europe macro issues: Europe, may be. China: not a change. People there still crazy about Apple products. All you need to watch is the traffic at the Apple Stores.

    Late MacBook intro: not all people are knowledgeable enough of the refresh cycle to delay the purchase. In addition, the Mac line is as but a small percentage of Apple's revenue (and even smaller profit). A blip of a blip?

    iPad 3 launch "failure": let's not forget where those iPads are made. The reason the launch today has been so calm was because anyone wanted an iPad 3 so badly would have gotten one months ago. Gray market is well and healthy in China.

    Sound an awful lot like last quarter to me.
    20 Jul 2012, 05:46 PM Reply Like
  • AAPL probably won't miss...though I can see them downgrading Q4 guidance so they also don't miss that either...
    20 Jul 2012, 06:22 PM Reply Like
  • Another clueless analyst blabber. Who cares?
    20 Jul 2012, 06:30 PM Reply Like
  • Here we go again.. the same old story. And people listen, same as ever. There has to be intention in these negative calls. Ignore them, as usual and load up on calls. There should be website where people can compare predictions with results and put half of these schmucks out of business, but people will always listen to anyone who is anyone. Thank G*d at least the dreadful Rocco Pendola has moved on to browner pastures.
    20 Jul 2012, 06:47 PM Reply Like
  • I agree Thomas. Does anyone have Bernstein's track record. Though it really doesn't matter because people listened and people sold.

    This has to be manipulation. He may not own the stock but he swaps favors with other analysis. Imagine if you could just give your opinion and drive a priice in a favorable direction Where is the SEC? Let me check, oh, they're absent, AWOL!
    20 Jul 2012, 07:07 PM Reply Like
  • What a silly comment, you and Thomas. Wasn't all the singing of praise what greatly contributed to the bubble in 2000? And you two would be the first screaming for oversight. Now here's an analyst positing things to be concerned about and you call manipulation. I thought I'd find intelligent and emotionally unbiased comments here when I signed up...
    21 Jul 2012, 12:43 AM Reply Like
  • Public service announcement: 46 of the 51 sell-side firms covering Apple have Buy or Strong Buy ratings on the company. Including Bernstein and FBR.

    http://yhoo.it/Kbkr3A

    Apple investors who reflexively attack any analyst who says something a little negative about the company do themselves a disservice.
    20 Jul 2012, 07:13 PM Reply Like
  • "Apple investors who reflexively attack any analyst who says something a little negative about the company do themselves a disservice."

    Yes they do, but this guy (Toni Sacconaghi) is notorious in the Apple community.

    http://bit.ly/NIwxCE

    From 2008:
    >>>
    And yes, that’s the same Sacconaghi who a month ago invented the idea that around 1.4 million of the iPhones sold were probably sitting in inventory somewhere [...] Never before in the history of consumer electronics have analysts worked so hard to contort reality in order to find potential problems with the sales, inventory, and consumer usage patterns of a device, and then extrapolate these into scary reports that suggest the imminent collapse of a highly successful company at the hands of its incompetent rivals.

    More recently, Sacconaghi has been warning that Apple is being “optimistic” to think it can sell 10 million iPhones in 2008, and he fears that the company may lose as much as $1.3 billion in revenue on unlocked phones this year....
    <<<

    So you can see not all analysts who "say something a little negative" about Apple are the same. Some have been alarmist, cautionary, and wrong since 2008. Toni Sacconaghi of Bernstein is one such animal.

    Editors who reflexively assume that an apple investor who is saying something negative about an analyst must be reflexively attacking someone for having a negative opinion do themselves a disservice. You see what I did there?
    21 Jul 2012, 04:29 AM Reply Like
  • I'd recommend checking out the Forbes article detailing Sacconaghi's opinion on Apple. He maintains an Outperform rating and $750 PT - hardly an "alarmist" stance on the company.

    Also, Sacconaghi has made plenty of positive comments about Apple as of late. Here's one from December praising its low valuation:

    http://seekingalpha.co...

    There are few companies for whom analyst commentary is as overwhelmingly positive as it is for Apple. Yet there are some investors who choose to focus only on the negative commentary (much of which, like Bernstein and FBR's reports, is only mildly negative) to somehow imagine that analysts hate the company.

    Some go as far as to declare all analyst opinions to be worthless and/or assume ulterior motives. Oddly enough, you never see that in the many instances where analysts have good things to say about Apple.
    21 Jul 2012, 01:00 PM Reply Like
  • With respect, Sacconaghi's analysis of Apple is like my saying "Lebron James could score 10 points as long as his knees hold out." And then when James scores 40 (with no sign of knee trouble), I can say, "See, I told you he'd score some points as long as his knees held out."

    A 750 price target is not terribly bullish, actually. And if he maintains this mild (and what will prove to be very beatable) price target while throwing up all kinds of silliness about how enterprise will not adopt the iPhone and they may be struggling to sell anything until iPhone 5, or any of the other silliness he has come up with, he can apparently fool some people into thinking he is doing a sound job. But just like my claiming Lebron James might score 10 points, it demonstrates a basic misunderstanding of the forces in play.

    21 Jul 2012, 01:35 PM Reply Like
  • A $750 12-month target represents almost a 25% gain from current levels. That's pretty bullish in my book - much better than you'll do putting the money into Treasuries these days :).

    Regarding his iPhone forecast, I'd again recommend checking out what he has to say. He's forecasting 28.5M for FQ3 and 24.2M for FQ4. A decline, but hardly "struggling to sell anything" ahead of the next iPhone's launch. He also writes:

    “Despite the possibility of sluggish performance in the near term, we remind investors that Apple is a very difficult stock to time, and that the stock’s outperformance over the last 2 years has been concentrated in short time periods,” he writes. “Moreover, we note that the issues we highlight are principally related to the timing and the launch of iPhone5, and other than enhanced seasonality, our thesis and outlook for Apple remain unchanged. Moreover, once visibility into the timing of the iPhone 5 launch becomes apparent, we believe that investor sentiment will become meaningfully positive.”
    21 Jul 2012, 01:50 PM Reply Like
  • Compare these "bullish" estimates with where AAPL really is in 12 months.

    I have read his comments. I believe it is important to hear what everyone is saying about Apple, not just the uber-bulls. But I also believe in ranking how much weight I give to these comments with both the analyst's past performance and with any signs that he seems not to understand the company or its products. And as I cited above (just one earlier example of many I could find) this analyst has demonstrated that he doesn't grok Apple's market position right now. That's not a crime. It doesn't mean he is in the pocket of shorts who are trying to make a killing on the "slingshot effect". It doesn't even mean he is bad at his job. It simply means he has a long history of conjecture that turns out not to be true, cautionary concerns that turn out not to be warranted, and sales estimates and price targets that turn out to be woefully low.

    But don't take my word for it. Let's come back Tuesday evening and see how well Toni's EPS of $10.24 matches reality. And then next year we'll compare AAPL's price to $750. I expect the results will be illuminating. And I will happily eat crow and post "That is why Toni makes the big bucks" if his work proves accurate.

    And just to be clear, here, Toni is saying there is a reasonable probability that Apple will MISS the street. That's pretty cautionary in my book. An investor following his advice would be setting up for a sizable drop in AAPL -- exiting some positions, going to cash to buy back lower. Let's see how that works out.
    21 Jul 2012, 02:25 PM Reply Like
  • Ahem... Have to clear my throat here...

    That is why Toni Sacconaghi makes the big bucks.

    Pass the crow.
    24 Jul 2012, 04:39 PM Reply Like
  • Sooner or later the pessimistic analysts re: AAPL will be correct then they will tout themselves as the ones that called it failing to mention the prior 5 or more quarters that they missed.
    20 Jul 2012, 08:42 PM Reply Like
  • It's your job as an investor to do your research and heed their advice, or not. They aren't forcing you to invest based on what they believe.
    21 Jul 2012, 12:43 AM Reply Like
  • My comment was meant to be more sardonic than as investment advice.
    21 Jul 2012, 01:00 AM Reply Like
  • I love these guys! They create a buying opportunity 2 days before earnings come out.
    I go into all my trades with my eyes wide open and though I am certainly an Apple fan, I am not naive enough to think that Apple won't miss a quarter someday, I just don't think this is the quarter that is going to happen. Loaded up on Jul 27 calls Friday.
    21 Jul 2012, 08:04 AM Reply Like
  • Last earnings week the nay-sayers came out beforehand though they had actual evidence to back uip anything they were worrying about. They tried to base their downer opnions on Verizon stats, but those proved to be irrelevant,. The stock fell 20 points and I bought, bought, bought, making a huge profit in a very short time period when the truth came out that Apple was wonduering the world financially. Since then the stock has gone up and down but has now based around the 600 level. I bought a lot more between 550 and 575 which I consider an excellent foolproof investment, Only fools sell this stock these days, and almost always regret it unles they are very short term traders playing the minor ups and downs.

    The fact is, whatever the exact numbers quarter to quarter, Apple is by far the best, most profitable, fastest growing large company on the planet and should be considered a separate economy from any macro considerations. Here in South America for instance, I see thousands of people with Apple products, yet Apple has invested very little in latin America. A few billboards at the airports, no offices, no TV ads, they dont even need to advertise. What other company on earth can grow like Apple, never discount anything and hardly even advertise?

    And China growth is just beginning -- and iPhone 5 will be the biggest product launch in world history -- and a low priced tablet to crush samsung and amazon -- and Apple TV possibly -- and just basically a huge growth story with hardly any real competition except on the low end -- also didn't Apple give low guidance three molths ago specifically to eliminate any chance of missing estimates? If they were to miss, it would be a very temporary problem. I expect iPhone 5 annoncements to start happening very soon, maybe even during the olympics to steal the spotlight from samsung which is a sponsor. Certainly by september which is only 5 weeks away. Also, look at Apple's PE. So low, so cheap by any normal metrics. I see this as a $1000+ stock within 9-18 months and $750 a lot sooner, so buy, buy, buy and ignore the naysayers. Probably just jealous parties or hedge funds trying to accumulate more cheap shares. and Apple is cheap now, make no mistake.
    21 Jul 2012, 02:31 PM Reply Like
  • One more thing. Expect the dividend to be declared very soon, any day now, and for it to increase along with stock buybacks over time, These two things make the stock even cheaper, and also much more dangerous to short,
    21 Jul 2012, 02:34 PM Reply Like
  • Just to be clear, no one is expecting Apple to miss its own forward guidance. The day that happens, very bad things will happen to the stock (and the market as a whole due to its weight). The number folks talk about when they say "miss" is the street estimate. Last I knew this number was $10.42. This is much higher than Apple's guidance, which no one takes very seriously except to compare it to previous guidance. If AAPL does not achieve $10.42 EPS, or even beats it mildly, I think there will be some degree of panic and sell off. Just look at what happened last October. Fortunately I think the odds of such a miss are small. Nothing is certain, but some very smart folks are calling for a blow-out ($12.50+). I have long put my sites on $11.50ish.

    Again, I always try to keep an open mind. Nothing is certain until the announcement. One day AAPL will truly disappoint and it will be a gut check for investors everywhere. This Tuesday does not figure to be this day in my book.
    21 Jul 2012, 02:59 PM Reply Like
  • Every quarter it's pretty much the same drill. Does anyone seriously believe that Apple didn't have another monster quarter? The chances that it misses its own guidance is zero. The chances that it misses analyst consensus is minimal. The question is how big is the beat.

    iPad sales are going to be substantially higher than last quarter. Thousands of new users enter the Apple eco-system every day. Of course some people are waiting for the iPhone 5, but that's the minority. China and the rest of the world are only expanding the Apple footprint. If your current plan is expiring or you see all of your friends/co-workers w/ an iPhone, you're not waiting 6 months for a new phone. Worst case is that iPhone sales are somewhere in the high 20 millions. Best case, sales are about where they were last quarter and the enhanced iPad sales and expanding blueprint deliver earnings north of $13. The earnings will be somewhere between $11 and $15 per share. Where it lands, who knows? but history suggests that we're looking at another significant beat.
    21 Jul 2012, 03:22 PM Reply Like
  • Apple missed estimates last October due to an iPhone shortfall, remember that?

    http://seekingalpha.co...

    Also, most analysts defended Apple after that miss, correctly arguing huge iPhone 4S sales in the December quarter would make up for it. That also seems to be forgotten by those who think analysts are out to get Apple.
    21 Jul 2012, 03:35 PM Reply Like
  • The fact that you can only point to one quarter where it missed estimates makes my case, and..... it missed analyst consensus, not its own guidance, which it never misses. Thanks for weighing in.
    22 Jul 2012, 06:38 PM Reply Like
  • I don't expect to convince you, but:

    1. If they missed once due to an iPhone shortfall ahead of a new product launch, they can miss again. Don't know if they'll miss this time (and it might be priced in regardless), but it's worth remembering.
    2. Bernstein is suggesting Apple could miss consensus, not its own forecasts, which are low-balled and rarely taken seriously.

    Thanks for weighing in as well.
    22 Jul 2012, 08:49 PM Reply Like
  • Eric, they could always miss for any number of reasons, but the logic here is simply off base (the logic of the analysts, not your logic).

    The quarter in question the iPhone 4 was over a year old and many perceived the new release to be 3 months overdue. There were many people who were not going to buy a 14 month old phone when the much awaited new phone was finally arriving. Contrast that to the end of this quarter, when the iPhone 4s is only 9 or 10 months old and the new release is 3 to 4 months away. NEXT quarter is the quarter to worry about Apple not selling the 4s, not this most recent quarter. It's less than 6 months old in lots of the world. That's reasonably new even in tech.

    I basically think this is a red herring.
    22 Jul 2012, 09:50 PM Reply Like
  • You might be right. Also, even if iPhone sales are weak, margins (low flash memory prices) and iPad sales could make up for it. We'll know in a couple of days.
    22 Jul 2012, 09:54 PM Reply Like
  • One thing that I believe is completed neglected in these "discussions" is the fact that you can still have a higher price target (bullish) but still understand that a miss on earnings in the card. An analyst is entitled to their opinion and what they believe might or might not happen. It is up to you to sift through the information and formulate your own opinion. If you blindly follow analyst recommendations, then you are implicitly saying that this analyst is 100% correct all the time.

    Furthermore, if you consider the timing of product launches, seasonality of the business, the strongest showing for Apple is always the last quarter of the actual year.

    Do I think apple will miss? Not at all. Last quarter only saw the iPhone introduction in China during the tail end of that quarter. With a full quarter under the belt, and supply in shape, I think that iPhone sales may come in higher than expected. Another I think nice surprise will be the sales in regard to the new MacBooks. I think the refresh of this product line will contribute, albeit extremely minimal compared to iPhone sale, greater % to revenue Pie.

    I'm most interested in their outlook for China, how europe is effecting their business and the margins on their business. (I don't hope for any new product information because that is a rarity in the Apple world). When I went into the Apple store about a month ago, there was a 4-6 backlog on both version of the Retina Display MacBook Pros. It shall be interesting how much this contribute to the margin's this quarter.
    22 Jul 2012, 10:36 AM Reply Like
  • "An analyst is entitled to their opinion and what they believe might or might not happen. It is up to you to sift through the information and formulate your own opinion."

    You are quite right. But Apple 2.0 has what it calls the "Earnings Smackdown" each quarter, tracking the estimates (and results) of 60+ analysts. Toni Sacconaghi is not the worst (by any means) but he consistently falls in the lower half of all analysts when his projections are measured against actual results. So "sifting through the information" can involve considering the source of that information. Andy Zaky, for example, is one of the highest rated analysts when you look at how nearly he predicts Apple's results. He is calling for EPS of 12.46 compared to Toni's call of 10.24 (which would be a miss of the street's expectations and would be a very bad thing).

    So this does not mean that Zaky has to be right and Sacconaghi has to be wrong. It simply suggests that Zaky is closer to the mark than Sacconaghi. So every analyst is entitled to his opinion, but you can weigh the record of that opinion against reality to get a more complete picture.
    22 Jul 2012, 01:05 PM Reply Like
  • Apple did not really miss last October, the next upgrade release was simply about to happen and that temporarily stalled, then they more than made up for it in the next few weeks and months, creating a huge blow-out to the upside in January (worth 200 points to the upside) and another blow-out last quarter which should have been good enough for a 100 point pike but only caused a temporary 50 point spike which then dissipated. In all cases, pullbacks have been superior buying opportunities and you would have been crazy selling into them.

    This quarter seems to be a tweener but still with a ton of upside potential, Expect massive earnings, no bad news, and maybe one or two keyy announcements like China Telecom and-or when the dividend kicks in. Also, the iPhone 5 launch could be announced as early as next month (to step on Samsung) and the cheaper mini pad as well quite soon (to step again on samsung but also Amazon and any other Windows pads). So though we can be almost positive there will be no big miss, any less than stellar news would be very temporary and again create a small window buying opportunity before the big news starts coming in in the next 1-3 months. And that is a very short time to have to wait.

    My guess is they beat estimates, margins are still high and profits are as good as last quarter, maybe a slight difference only, So far, almost no one is putting off purchases waiting for the next upgrade. If that hits it would probably be next quarter. But I also believe Apple is keenly on top of these timing issues. So they dovetail new releases more smoothly than last October why they probably saw as a slight flaw in their roll-out scheduling.

    Also, next quarter we will get the full impact of the China iPad release earnings. This quarter will only show a a week worth, and that only because Apple made Chinese pay and reserve in advance. So all this is good news, very good, and nobody should be the least buit pessimistic about this tock which remains one of the cheapest large caps in the market. Same PE as Intel, and whose shoes would you rather be in going forward. Intel is a great company, but Apple is king and will be for years to come, maybe even decades.
    22 Jul 2012, 01:26 PM Reply Like
  • Here is a good rundown of all the specific numbers from lots of analysts both pros and others who have been pretty accurate over past few years: Apple 2.0 Earnings Estimates http://goo.gl/z6XVN
    23 Jul 2012, 02:03 AM Reply Like
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