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July Nonfarm Payrolls: +163K vs. consensus +100K, prior +64K (revised from 80K). Unemployment...

  • Friday, August 3, 2012, 8:30 AM ET
    July Nonfarm Payrolls: +163K vs. consensus +100K, prior +64K (revised from 80K). Unemployment rate 8.3% vs. consensus 8.2%, 8.2% previous.
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This news story has 57 comments:

  • So where is the recession? Private Sector payroll up 172K....


    Another blow to the doomers....
    NO recession.
    3 Aug 2012, 08:32 AM Reply Like
  • Don't worry, the number will be revised downward next month.
    3 Aug 2012, 08:49 AM Reply Like
  • Employment to population ratio dropped, NILF increased. Number of unemployed increased. The addition you claim was due to the largest seasonal adjustment to July in a decade. Job 'gains' were all part time. Full time declined by over 190,000.
    3 Aug 2012, 10:41 AM Reply Like
  • TT,

    If you look at the recent years numbers, there have been spike(s) up around the October time frame.
    3 Aug 2012, 11:08 AM Reply Like
  • Monster number "based on recent bad numbers" but mixed feelings about the UI %. More people back in the workforce?
    3 Aug 2012, 08:33 AM Reply Like
  • Good numbers,,,leading indicators inside nonfarm payrolls still positive...
    3 Aug 2012, 08:35 AM Reply Like
  • What? I know you noticed full time has been tanking and part time rising. People are forced to hold at least 2 part time jobsThe seasonal adjustment was massive. The internals were flat at best. The number of people that have a living wage job continues to decline ( something your internals don't measure).

    46.4 million on food stamps ( new record).
    3.6 million job openings (jolts).
    12.7 million on unemployment.
    88.3 million NILF ( but let's call it 40 million just to eliminate retirees and others that shouldn't be counted as work age).
    Let's call it an even 50 million for 3.6 million jobs. This is the problem. The number of those that want/could/should be working, far outstrips the number of living wage jobs ( I was being generous assuming all 3.6 million job openings were living wage).

    Following economic indicators that don't take into account the existing magnitude of the situation seems rather dangerous. I know you disagree with me on this because you look at it from an investor standpoint, and I look at it form a socio/ economic standpoint. The system will collapse....and all that paper and 1's and 0's that everyone is chasing will be for crap. Simply put, the situation is in an ever declining cycle.
    http://bit.ly/uosUSn
    3 Aug 2012, 02:45 PM Reply Like
  • OH OH, NO FED Q3 ANNOUNCEMENT IN JACKSON HOLE NOW...

    THE MARKET IS NOT PREPARED FOR HAVING THE FED PUT TAKEN OUT OF THE MARKET IN ONE FELL SWOOP.

    THIS COULD BE BIG TROUBLE FOR STOCKS THIS MONTH.
    3 Aug 2012, 08:44 AM Reply Like
  • Mr. Mortgage: I think your Caps lock button is broken; in the event you don't know what that is please look at your keyboard, far left center (typically if you are using a standard QWERTY keyboard).

    http://yhoo.it/NPXYz1

    here is a blog discussing further...
    3 Aug 2012, 09:00 AM Reply Like
  • Good news means the economy's getting better. Bad news means QE3 is imminent. So there really is no more bad news except the endless cycle of central bank announcements alternately creating hope and despair. The entire securities market is completely dependent on central bank news. That's pretty pathetic. What happens when QE3 produces no meaningful results? Will QE4 still stimulate the markets or will fundamentals start to mean something again? The only reason monetary policy means anything anymore has absolutely nothing to do with liquidity. It's all about the Pavlovian response the markets have to more free money being pumped into the banks, who promptly take it to the big casino. I don't know how this can possibly be a good thing.

    Got Glass-Steagall?
    3 Aug 2012, 09:02 AM Reply Like
  • Hilarious. In reality, Bernanke has been saying no QE for thirteen months, now. Only the deaf don't hear him.
    3 Aug 2012, 09:02 AM Reply Like
  • That reminds me. Carter Glass of Glass-Stegall thought the New Deal was Hitlerism.
    3 Aug 2012, 09:23 AM Reply Like
  • He has not been saying no QE. If you actually read Fed statements, he's very subtle as to future actions. He says that things look good, but things also look bad. If things get even worse, we might consider some kind of QE-like action. If not, we'll have to wait and see. He's been saying these types of vague remarks for some time now, and the mere anticipation of QE is now baked into asset prices.

    Even if P/E ratios are low in general compared with historical numbers, considering the horrible shape of the "recovery," they (P/E) should be even lower, but haven't been due to market's expectation of Fed intervention.
    3 Aug 2012, 09:26 AM Reply Like
  • He has even hinted at a negative interest rate policy where they would fine banks that held too much excess reserves.
    3 Aug 2012, 09:27 AM Reply Like
  • nt:

    You've been faked out.

    The QE talk has been pabulum to salve nervous markets, but his actions have made it clear that he realizes that more QE would be counterproductive. The new talk of removing interest on excess reserves further confirms this.
    3 Aug 2012, 09:33 AM Reply Like
  • So you think he's just talking out of his ass when he talks of a negative interest rate policy?
    3 Aug 2012, 09:39 AM Reply Like
  • nt:

    Yep.
    3 Aug 2012, 09:43 AM Reply Like
  • Carter Glass...."Discrimination! Why that is exactly what we propose. To remove every negro voter who can be gotten rid of, legally, without materially impairing the numerical strength of the white electorate."[
    3 Aug 2012, 09:54 AM Reply Like
  • Don't forget Hugo Black.
    3 Aug 2012, 10:15 AM Reply Like
  • Don't forget Jack Black
    3 Aug 2012, 10:32 AM Reply Like
  • He's a reminder that politicians are not the elite, but rather clowns.
    3 Aug 2012, 10:34 AM Reply Like
  • More continued malaise. In '83 one month of NFP was around 1 million. 163k indicates a failure of fiscal policy to create stimulus. Hopefully, though, this will cause some drift upward on treas yields as both the Fed and ECB failed to deliver on wealth transfer. If these limbo numbers of malaise continue, the possibility of the CBs engaging in more wealth transfer from the general populace to the financial markets decreases. This means the chances to deploy cash into a stimulus bubble are much lower.
    3 Aug 2012, 09:02 AM Reply Like
  • June was revised down. 80 to 64

    May was revised up. 77 to 87.

    It is like saying a patient that has been paralyzed has shown some signs of recovery by wiggling his big toe once a week.
    3 Aug 2012, 09:14 AM Reply Like
  • Good news "relatively" speaking.

    Still needs to surpass the 200k threshold and stay above it for months to lower the unemployment rate. This just about covers population growth. Considering the amount of stimulus carrying those numbers, I'm still underwhelmed.

    edit: development in part-time vs. full-time employment looks weak though.
    3 Aug 2012, 09:11 AM Reply Like
  • If you guys actually trust these numbers, you're in for quite a ride.

    check out shadowstats.com
    3 Aug 2012, 09:29 AM Reply Like
  • I don't trust Shadowstats...
    3 Aug 2012, 09:33 AM Reply Like
  • y not?
    3 Aug 2012, 09:40 AM Reply Like
  • Any site that claims to have the "real statistics" then wants to charge you over $100 to see it, sends up the red flags to me...

    althought it's a great scam... i mean business idea. Claim you know more then all the other experts, and that your experts are more credible then other experts. And in order to know the truth! You need to pay me 100$.
    3 Aug 2012, 09:40 AM Reply Like
  • And you think gov stats have absolutely no incentives for bias? It pays to consider lots of different sources of information. Not believe, but consider. It reminds you that there is more than one perspective on any issue.
    3 Aug 2012, 09:43 AM Reply Like
  • Ture jhooper but you can get thousands of varying experts opinions for free by watching the news, or doing your own research.

    Why pay for an opinion that is based on the same info everyone else bases their opinions on... I don't believe any one group/person has information that other groups don't also have... there is no "great secret", they just have a different view point. You are basically paying them for an opinion.
    3 Aug 2012, 09:48 AM Reply Like
  • Shadowstats gives conspiracy theorists the warm fuzzies....
    3 Aug 2012, 09:56 AM Reply Like
  • bbro:

    Let's not forget their siamese twin, ZeroHedge.
    3 Aug 2012, 10:03 AM Reply Like
  • And cousin Mish,,
    3 Aug 2012, 10:33 AM Reply Like
  • the numbers don't have a bias

    US government stats do not contain a bias - if you want that go to Argentina

    the only bias is in the eyes of the interpreter

    shadowjunk takes stats and spins them in special ways - there is no spin in US govt. data

    E is for Ecumenical on stats
    3 Aug 2012, 02:33 PM Reply Like
  • E is for exactly. Gov stats are based on procedures performed by gov workers who have incentives to be biased toward gov, and those procedures are designed based on an original bias. It seems Bacon and his empiricism still haunts the world in which we live, only it goes by another name.
    3 Aug 2012, 02:41 PM Reply Like
  • All hail the infalable overlords.
    3 Aug 2012, 02:49 PM Reply Like
  • The headline “nonfarm payrolls” numbers come from a survey of establishments. The unemployment rate comes from a survey of households. So what did people say? First, based on their responses, 150k dropped out of the labor force (compared to a 156k increase in June). The number of employed, as indicated by people, fell 195k (as opposed to a 128k June gain). And 348k persons of working age dropped out of the labor force, contributing to the great mass of “discouraged workers” (there was just a 34k rise of discourage workers in June). Hence, on each score, July was worse than June. By the way, taking into account discouraged workers and underemployment, the “U-6” unemployment rate advanced a notch in July, to 15.0%.
    3 Aug 2012, 09:50 AM Reply Like
  • ECRI subscriptions are inversely correlated to this number - where is Lakshman? where is the recession we were promised? where?

    E
    3 Aug 2012, 10:10 AM Reply Like
  • Edoc,

    You got that right. I think they will be hurting big time with the client base. However, they did get the overall direction call on the strength of the economy right. With even small downward revisions we could be near zero with GDP this quarter and last.

    As an FYI, GDP growth for q1/q2 of 2010 was revised down by 2% in last week's revisions taking the original rate from 4% to 2% which I would submit is quite the swing.

    Food for thought.
    3 Aug 2012, 10:49 AM Reply Like
  • yes it is.

    but if you listened to them and went to cash when they made their original call which was last September at about 1150 you are not thanking them for the service they provided.
    3 Aug 2012, 12:04 PM Reply Like
  • Edoc,

    Interesting stat from Gary Shilling who I recall you respect:

    http://on.mktw.net/NqWCom
    "Shilling is particularly troubled by retail sales data, which were down for three consecutive months — March, April, and May.

    “That has happened 27 times,” he explained. “In 25 of the 27 times, we were in a recession or within three months of the start of a recession.”
    3 Aug 2012, 03:03 PM Reply Like
  • Nobody is talking about Schilling's call.

    As for the start to the recession it was the middle of 2009 when the NBER officially called the start and end to the last recession. They are typically about a year behind as they compile enough data points to make a call.

    Let's not forget that the 2001 recession did not have two quarters of negative growth yet the underlying statistics like employment, industrial production, and others confirmed a recession.
    3 Aug 2012, 03:10 PM Reply Like
  • Have you looked at this quarter's corporate earnings?

    When I go out, I see nothing but empty restaurants, bars, and movie theaters.
    3 Aug 2012, 06:20 PM Reply Like
  • theater was pretty packed last weekend for Batman... PACKED.
    3 Aug 2012, 06:36 PM Reply Like
  • nt:

    Actually, as of a week ago, 74% of firms reporting have beaten earnings estimates, while the revenue beats have fallen to 45%. http://bit.ly/QAmXIe

    P.S. You must live in the wrong town.
    3 Aug 2012, 06:38 PM Reply Like
  • Yes - I've hear this stat. in several places. Shilling is a smart fellow and this is a bad stat and a real one.

    It is conflicting. Clearly this not a boom but is it a contraction. How can it be with housing picking up and retail sales doing the same. and where are the job losses. And it is hard to see a contraction when there is so much money flowing around and the promise of more.

    These are strange days. The world is mediocre and will remain so until the deleveraging is done. But in the meantime don't expect stocks to crater they just won't do that.

    Personally I have been raising small amounts of cash opportunistically and moving into energy and some other beaten up names - usually 100% invested - I am anticipating a small pullback as we get towards the cliff. I was hoping for more Euro turmoil as an opportunity to buy back in at 1250 or so - sadly it looks like that will not happen now and maybe a pull back to 1300 is the best we will see.

    Long run - and my horizon is +10 years - you cannot care about what happens month to month - it is irrelevant. Recession? Who cares? in 2020 and beyond - 2012 will look like a buying opportunity - and all of this strife is nothing but a ripple on a pond.

    E
    4 Aug 2012, 03:31 AM Reply Like
  • Yeah who cares about record 46 million on food stamps, lowest civilian participation rate in many decades, highest Gini coefficient in generations, highest not in labour force since...well ever.. at 88.3 million, employment/population ratio hasn't budged from its 08 lows and is still murking around at 58% - compared to the 64,5% 10 years ago. Manufacturing industry employment as a % to pop is hovering at 8% from close to 40% during WW2 ( a clear sign of how massively corporations have de-industrialised their own country), part time employment now at twice the level it was 10 years ago, the government has become by far the largest employment sector while the real - seasonally non-adjusted change in employment for July was...

    - 1.204.000 !!

    These official employment numbers are completely Orwellian in their capacity to misinform.

    I'm sitting here in central Europe and you guys usually over in the States and the only thing that differs between us, is that I know I am in deep deep shit, while you lot are still in denial.

    Your society is crumbling, record company profits at the expense of well paid, full-time American jobs is the most unsustainable way forward. Expect the lack of income in the broad population base to eventually run out of credit to cover the income-spending gap. That is when your house of cards will come tumbling down. Ours in Europe is the Euro debacle and it is happening now.

    Maybe I'm being a bit harsh here, but looking at past corporate profits is the least informative way to project future earnings in the current environment. This will eventually be a macro story, there is no way about.
    4 Aug 2012, 05:54 AM Reply Like
  • s:

    Eventually, we're all dead.
    4 Aug 2012, 07:38 AM Reply Like
  • No sense living in gov induced austerity while we are still alive though.
    4 Aug 2012, 08:30 AM Reply Like
  • Earnings and revenue beats are meaningless when profit growth is slowing to single digits.

    A month ago earnings expectations for the third quarter were on average 17%, now they have been marked down to zero.

    What is more important? The beat or the fact is was marked down to the floor?
    4 Aug 2012, 11:01 AM Reply Like
  • Retail sales fell the last three months in a row. Where are you seeing it picking up?

    All the money sloshing around is masking the rot like a coat of paint on a termite infested house.

    So far the LTRO and EFSF have thrown 1 trillion euros at the European crisis and what do they have to show for it? They have not boosted economic growth and neither has Bernanke's twist programs.
    4 Aug 2012, 11:04 AM Reply Like
  • A few years ago we would have pucked at the numbers we have seen this year but now their good or at least not as bad, or at least better than expected, or at least better than last month which was revised upward later, etc. How about this, we don't call it a recession anymore because it doesn't matter. This is the new normal unless we finally get polictical and finianical leaderhip that understands the underlying structural problems and decides that won't stand. Probably be waiting a long time for that to happen.
    3 Aug 2012, 10:13 AM Reply Like
  • Sell sell sell
    3 Aug 2012, 10:14 AM Reply Like
  • Question:

    Is this the prelude to the end of year market run up into Xmas?
    3 Aug 2012, 10:59 AM Reply Like
  • Awesome. They give you more jobs so the market can go up AND a higher UE rate to keep the Fed still in play! Looking past the superficiality of these meaningless "stats"... the only employment statistics that matter (participation rate, emp-to-pop ratio) indicate the employment picture is still horrid.

    S&P P/E now well over 20, while economic growth continues to contract.

    Keep buying!
    3 Aug 2012, 11:12 AM Reply Like
  • Short the small caps , buy TZA $18.09
    3 Aug 2012, 12:04 PM Reply Like
  • The numbers were not that good but this market has been trading more off of news than fundamentals for more than a month now. Corporate profit growth is non-existent which does not bode well for multiple expansion.

    Technically the SPY and DIA look like buys but the QQQ and IWM have lagged? That makes me very cautious.
    3 Aug 2012, 03:13 PM Reply Like
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