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Groupon (GRPN -27%) had its defenders on this dark day. Barrington praised Groupon's market...

  • Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 7:02 PM ET
    Groupon (GRPN -27%) had its defenders on this dark day. Barrington praised Groupon's market share and brand, and estimates it trades at just a 7.1x 2012 EV/free cash flow multiple. And SA's Drew Handy is impressed with the rapid growth of Groupon's e-commerce business. Critics, meanwhile, focused not only on slowing growth, but also Groupon's people issues. Namely, that it may have too many, and is having problems managing them. (more) (transcript)
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This news story has 10 comments:

  • You know a company is a POS when you have to invent some type of metric to make it sound good.
    14 Aug 2012, 09:38 PM Reply Like
  • EV/FCF is used by plenty of people doing serious valuation analysis, and a lot of them will tell you it's a much better metric than P/E, which doesn't include net cash/debt and is easier to manipulate through accounting tricks.

    Also, free cash flow gives you a better idea of a company's worth than earnings over the long run, though it's lumpier over the short run (especially for a company like Groupon, that has major working capital and capex changes).
    14 Aug 2012, 09:49 PM Reply Like
  • This thing was a dog in valuation terms from the day of its IPO no matter what standard you use. I like Fisher's Price to Sales Ratio because you can't fake it with phony/aggressive accounting and on this metric it is still way overvalued.

    The PSR has fallen like a rock and until it reaches 1.5 or less, I wouldn't touch this with a 10 foot pole. This was a pure pump and dump play and the results prove it.

    FCF analysis depends upon the validity of the financial statements, a confidence I wouldn't place in this company.

    Fisher ratios:
    http://bit.ly/NyY1hB

    It's not a company, it's a gimmick.
    14 Aug 2012, 11:01 PM Reply Like
  • P/S has some uses, but it ignores a whole bunch of things that determine profitability besides revenue. Pricing, capex, R&D, sales/marketing, expenses, etc.

    I think it's main benefit is it gives you a rough idea of what kind of multiple a company that isn't earning much (if anything) over the near-term could theoretically have when it becomes more profitable. Otherwise I'd focus on earnings and/or cash flow.
    15 Aug 2012, 12:58 AM Reply Like
  • SA,

    It does no such thing - you do not ignore the things you mentioned. You start with PSR and if it doesn't pass that screen, it is very likely not a "Super Stock" as defined by Fisher. The link I provided also addresses those other ratios that cover capex, R&D, etc. and it fails all of those tests as well.

    The purpose of using PSR is to force discipline on your investing process and to stop you from buying crap like GRPN in the first place. You focus on stocks that meet the PSR criteria and then do further fundamental analysis as you suggest.

    I recommend the book "Super Stocks" as it is a very worthwhile and profitable read.

    Why analyze a pig when you can analyze a star?
    15 Aug 2012, 10:56 AM Reply Like
  • The problem with this approach is that different types of companies deserve different types of P/S ratios. A software company or IP licensing firm, for example, deserves a higher ratio since they're in a high-margin business and a large chunk of their revenue can eventually be converted into profits. Whereas a hardware distributor or dollar store chain deserves a much lower ratio because they're in a low margin business.

    I like Fisher, but screening for P/S without taking a close look at the business model can give a skewed understanding of a company's worth.
    15 Aug 2012, 11:21 AM Reply Like
  • SA,

    You think GRPN is one of those "different types of companies deserve different types of P/S ratios"?

    I don't. I think its a dog.

    There are literally thousands of companies worldwide that are more interesting and offer a better ROI. No reason at all to settle for a company that relies upon complex accounting methodology and revenue recognition policies to explain its business.
    15 Aug 2012, 06:16 PM Reply Like
  • I'm talking about companies in general, not Groupon in particular. A one-size-fits-all approach to P/S ratios doesn't make sense since certain business models warrant higher ratios than others. That's my main point.
    15 Aug 2012, 06:43 PM Reply Like
  • @GaltMachine: I know I am late to this discussion, but price-to-sales is also vulnerable to revenue recognition problems, which it appears to me, GRPN might have.
    19 Nov 2012, 11:14 AM Reply Like
  • PDT,

    On August 14th, the stock closed at $5.51 and today it has rebounded from recent lows, $2.60 intraday, to just about $3.15. Amazingly on a price to sales basis it is starting to look interesting http://bit.ly/NyY1hB

    http://bit.ly/HrozJW
    "Graham wrote that the owner of equity stocks should regard them first and foremost as conferring part ownership of a business. With that perspective in mind, the stock owner should not be too concerned with erratic fluctuations in stock prices, since in the short term, the stock market behaves like a voting machine, but in the long term it acts like a weighing machine (i.e. its true value will in the long run be reflected in its stock price)."
    19 Nov 2012, 12:03 PM Reply Like
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