Market Currents
"If Steve Jobs were still alive, would the new map application on the iPhone 5 be such an...
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Sunday, September 23, 2012, 1:21 PM ET"If Steve Jobs were still alive, would the new map application on the iPhone 5 be such an unmitigated disaster?" asks Joe Nocera. It's a question many others are also asking, given the huge backlash to iOS 6 Maps. But to Nocera, a potentially bigger concern is that Jobs' absence will limit the risk-taking that drove Apple's (AAPL) meteoric rise. Joshua Topolsky: "The iPhone 5 is unquestionably the best iPhone ever made ... but right now Apple seems to be in a holding pattern, too comfortable or too scared to take real chances." (also: I, II)
This news story has 267 comments:
Nocera is notoriously anti-apple. You cannot take anything he says seriously. I don't even bother to read his posts. It is one thing to raise critical questions; it is another to rant incessantly.
These guys are just cruising for page-hits.
For a real analysis of Maps and why it was critical - see my post:
http://bit.ly/PcNtm5
http://bit.ly/Of194q
As these guys battle it out they will likely ship sub standard stuff as emotion will overcome reason.
It's not supposed to be a working program. Apple did it for the lolz!
iPhone users don't care about a GPS function. They can carry a Garmin in their other pocket, if they want to. :-P
....but you know....I gotta give Apple their due...smartphones would not be what they have become without them raising the bar....and tablets might still be a fringe market if the iPad never existed....and I have owned both iPhones and iPads, and the quality of build and their capabilities have been astounding...they have been worth to me far more than they have costed, even at full retail....take away all iPads, and I would pay double to get them back...
....they are now the "Big Bad Apple Bully", but they are still putting out products that are well worth my dollar.....
I'm disappointed enough with soldered in RAM on MacBook Pros that I am considering upgrading my existing MacBook Pro instead of buying a new one. However, I may get my mom an iMac she can use at home, because the screen and form factor are really nice. The iPad is just not compact enough for me to get one to replace carrying my MacBook Pro on business trips; plus I need the greater capabilities on a laptop. My current smartphone does everything I need it to accomplish.
I am waiting for the day when my iPad can do all my laptop can do....that day is getting closer and closer....they need to merge Mac OS with iOS more completely....but I can do a lot with the iPad, especially with the keyboard cases that are availlable aftermarket....I don't understand why Apple doesn't make a custom iPad case that accommodates their Bluetooth keyboard and allow for landscape orientation....I think that would sell very well.....
And frankly Apple always held themselves up as the opposite of greedy MS and now they kind of look the same.
http://reut.rs/SNciF0
You might find that article of interest. John Abell indicates he thinks smaller tablets are the next great growth area. I would consider an iPad Mini, but given the pricing of the iPod Touch and the iPad, I don't see where that would fit in the Apple product line. After a couple more quarters, we may get some better data on the tablet market. Samsung appears to be going after "phablets", while most other companies are improving small tablets. The size factor would be purse size for women, and jacket pocket size for men. We shall see.
Oh, correct, the surface is similar to what I am thinking...I am skeptical of Microsoft's ability to execute, though....my hope is that the surface spurs Apple to execute the concept well...remember, the tablet concept has been around almost a decade now....it took Apple to implement the concept well enough that I would buy one.... If Microsoft can do as well as they did with the Xbox, then it may work....but their track record leads me to place them in the "show me first" category....
@Tomas
You know that I think things through in detail....I have studied Apple more than any other company, including RIM....and there is no one out there like Apple.....if you look at my most recent comments, I do not view Apple as infallible or as perfection, and there are more complaints that I have than I have written about....but, I think that any objective analysis of the company, it's execution, it's innovation, and its market position and room for further growth, would show Apple to be without peers.....
Don't overdo the bearishness or skepticism, Tomas....those are good tools to mitigate risk, but taking it too far causes missed opportunities, sometimes big misses....the key, like in most things, is balance....RIM and Apple are almost polar opposites in their businesses and as far as strengths and weaknesses....because of this, I have always played RIM short and AAPL long (with one exception where I went long RIMM for a very short time)....and those have been absolutely the best trades that I have come across....EVER....
The RIM trade will end much sooner than the AAPL trade as far as valuation and viability.....and so, I must seek out more terrible companies to short....
I was commenting on the shifting perception of Apple not whether or not they are a good investment. I experienced MS through its buildup from a small nothing to a juggernaut that transformed the workplace and the desktop. What they did is overlooked which is very typical of human behavior and they went from darling to SOB's eventually. Apple will get the same treatment especially if they are hostile to everyone, sensitive to criticism and want to sue for everything. MS did not do much of the latter but was definitely the first two. What Apple forgets is that everyone you sue is a darling of someone else so if you sue everyone the number of people out to get you mounts. And hostility and sensitivity is not a communication strategy.
Having said that I think they could double from here but then again there are smaller cap stocks that could double or triple over the next few years that I would rather play with and spread my bets.
My thought is that the right price point for an iPad mini is around $299....that will make them both competitive (yet, a bit higher), and will also give them a good 30-35% profit margin....
The iPod comparison pricing will need to be adjusted to accommodate the tablet, as it is far more crucial strategically than the iPod touch....just my opinion, of course.....
JPM was a good call, gutsy too....I'm already too long though, keep me updated on good ideas, going forward though...
I get what you mean by perception about following the competition, but I would say that Apple needs to rise above that and do what is strategically optimal...to cede the 7" market because of pride is just plain idiotic....if they do that, THAT is precisely the tyoe of errors that will get me questioning Apple's competency....not NFC or maps, but major strategic errors is what I am watching for....
and based on supplier leaks, the mini is coming very soon, I think it has passed the point of just rumor....they were correct on every aspect of the 5....so I will go with what is being said on the mini for now....
Surface may be well done, or it might suck...but, I'm unlikely to dump both my iPad and my iPhone that is on the way, all for a Microsoft product...I spent too many years paying for frequent MS office and Windows upgrades that I neither wanted or needed...
I expect Apple to bite the bullet and cut into their Mac lines...disrupt themselves....they did it with the iPhone, canabalizing their iPods....Id like them to do it again, this time with the iPad....
No, it's not a drawback at all. Apple made sure flash is dead, so you just need to find the same videos in another format. Pretty easy, eh?
Apple always knows what's best for the consumer. You may think you want to see flash videos but you really don't. It's all in your head.
Apple killed flash... so if you're an Apple fan, why in the hell would you want to use it? Makes no sense.
(One of these days, Apple users will want to run Windows from their Macs or something weird like that.)
You make no attempt to conceal your utter contempt....so now I am asking you what is behind all of that....reasonable question....
Well, Ronin, I really thought I had the right answer, but apparently, I'm wrong. My bad, sorry.
Then you go ahead and please tell me the objective truth, so I can be better informed. Why doesn't the IPad run flash videos?
My agenda? I don't have any particular agenda. My preference for companies changes accordingly to their attitudes and offered products/services.
I used to love Apple but... but that phase has passed.
I used to despise Microsoft and that ended as well.
I guess I just go with the flow and tend to love what I believe to be the best offers, at any given time, by whatever company...
If Apple changes its ways and goes back to being the great company I used to love, don't be surprised to see me returning and saying they are great. But at the moment, I can't do that as Apple keeps disappointing me more and more.
Here's the objective truth: You showed up on AAPL articles less than a month ago, with this attitude...Apple has a ton of positives as well as some negatives, some of which I have recently mentioned....your comments are so heavily biased and lacking balance that it is disruptive rather than helpful...
...by constantly expressing your contempt, it only serves to irritate people....you certainly aren't saving people from a bad investment or doing anything that could be construed as constructive...and it certainly isn't the intent if this forum to just be airing your personal frustrations....perhaps you can go and attack Apple on some Nokia or RIM website where it will be appreciated....you'll be supported and applauded there.....
Sorry for that, Ronin, but Nokia has part of the blame for it.
If Nokia hadn't come up with a smartphone that can be compared to the iPhone, I probably would never had commented on any AAPL related thread at all.
"You certainly aren't saving people from a bad investment or doing anything that could be construed as constructive..."
I'm just giving my opinions, you don't have to agree with them.
Also, you should never, ever, ever invest on any stock by filtering out all the noise coming from people who dislike that particular company. Listening to all sides is a very important thing to do. Listening only to bulls or listening only to bears will achieve nothing.
I don't consider AAPL a bad investment for now but I don't know (and I don't want to bet) when this Apple trend will end. At the moment, Apple can mess up quite a lot as that won't affect its stock performance, since Apple has enough fans to give them millions of $$ in profits... but I doubt they can keep it up for long.
Apple need to regroup and rethink some of its strategies to return being the magnifique company they used to be.
"personal frustrations....perhaps you can go and attack Apple on some Nokia or RIM website where it will be appreciated....you'll be supported and applauded there....."
Who said I criticize Apple in order to be supported or applauded?
All I want is to see a good and fair attitude from every company, as that is usually the best for the end users.
I feel the patent wars (that Apple insist on pursuing) and Apple's very recent laissez-fare attitude are not good for competition and technology progress.
With Apple, there are positives that they have brought to technology and in initiating and leading the mobile computing wave....it has brought a lot of value to people, including those using devices by competitors....
I deliberately try not to filter out negative info, I actually take note of information that makes logical sense to me and seems likely to have an effect on the stock in either the short-term or the long-term....I have many conversations with some who are cautious or even bearish..
If it helps any, know that I dislike constant overly emotional and zealousness by Apple bulls as well, especially when they suddenly attack other reasonable commenters....I don't like some things that Apple does either.....for instance, I think that the least Apple could have done with the connector transition would be to include an adaptor with each product for a while....I think it is bad for customer relations to do otherwise....
As an investor, for the time being, there seems to be a lot of positive catalysts coming...and Tim Cook's performance has been much better than I expected....but, I am watching the strategic decisions Apple is making and evaluating them for early signs of trouble....you will see some of these come out in some of my comments....
Btw, I play Nokia, sometimes short, sometimes long.....they have a good product from what I can tell...I wonder if they will do well or if they have taken way too long to play catch up...they probably would do okay if it was only Apple, but Android is taking up too much of the air in the room, and that may hurt Nokia... the outcome will probably be decided by consumers soon....
Last year I was very sceptical about Windows Phone and I didn't get in NOK simply because they've used Windows, not Android.
Later on, after reading a lot of reviews and seeing some of my friends using it, I've changed my mind.
It's very different from what most people are used to. I should know, since I've been using all kinds of OS for the last 3 decades (I've tried everything from DOS to Windows, Mac OS, QNX, Linux, Amiga OS...)
Nevertheless, I've overcomed my prejudice against Microsoft and realized Windows Phone is an excellent interface for small devices, very intuitive, configurable and easy to read, particularly for people with vision problems.
I'm a bit astonished that Microsoft has come up with such an idea. Coming from them, I was expecting Windows Phone would come out to be very similar to Android/iOS.
At the moment, WP might look a bit awkward for people used to Android or iOS, but I think that happens with idea that breaks a established status quo... in this case, the 3 decade old concept of aligned icons.
Only time will tell if this new interface will be successful. As every new idea, it might gain traction... or simply fade into oblivion.
As you refer, it will be both consumers and developers to decide its fate, not Wall Street investors or analysts.
Either bearish or bullish, I don't think anyone can be very sure about which way things will go for Nokia and Windows Phone...
and that's why it bothers me to see some users here condemning Nokia to failure, with such a high degree of certainty.
All things considered, we can only guess.
PS: You might not believe but 2 decades ago, I was one of those kids who referred to MS as being Micro$oft. I guess I grew up.
Manolive, what the haters don't want to tell you is that, yes, there is a way around this. You need to get a browser for your iPad that supports flash:
http://bit.ly/SO2ZEA
But having said that, I should say that mobile flash is no longer being supported and many mobile devices do not support flash. The industry is coming around to what Apple said two years ago -- that flash is not a good mobile platform. (The Surface -- when it becomes available -- will not support flash, so this is not an Apple "problem".) You may want to contact those who run your golf site and let them know you want videos in a mobile format. If they get enough feedback they are likely to see it is in their best interest to get current.
But this is not a thing big bad Apple did to the web, the existing video standard (flash) was simply woefully inadequate for anyone trying to play video using the least possible data and processing power. Things are changing in video standards largely because Apple took the lead. But if Apple hadn't done it, someone else (probably Microsoft) would have. The haters talk like losing flash was some sort of crime. In fact it was shedding old dead skin of the desktop era for something more suitable for mobile. Tech improvements require change and anyone who tries to treat this change as an oversight or gaffe has an agenda.
Is this your line for why the Surface will not support flash as well?
You guys just can't take a joke. :-P
... although NOK was its own punchline last year, I suppose...
(I'm long NOK and just bought more seconds ago... as I think it is returning to bargain territory.)
I have a small bet on Nokia but not interested in buying more unless it falls below $2 again (which I doubt). This is a long-term play, I don't want to keep much money glued onto it.
As an investment, I'm considering getting into IRBT, again.
Anyone looking into them? One of their latest products uses iPad as its "brain" --- looks pretty cool!
I think that the iPad mini may cause problems for the other tablets though.....
http://bit.ly/Q2XEt4
In desktop mode, or with a different browser, Flash based web content will still be viewable. Also, Adobe are working on a Flash server, which will convert older content on the fly for streaming delivery to mobile devices.
I would expect MSFT to do well with Windows 8. At the moment shares are high, so I would wait for a market pull-back prior to investing. I have no idea if I would ever buy a Windows 8 product, though I am curious enough to go try out the Surface when it is introduced.
I love that comment...
I experience This firsthand. I have a rather poor Internet connection and the Maps load much faster. They had to Try and provide a map service to their customers. Google was going to lessen the user experience for those customers by not including turn by turn directions. No one is talking about this.
No one is really discussing how Superior crowdsourcing is to any other method of data refinement.
I believe that if the consumer understood both how difficult the Enterprise is and how quickly it can be accomplished any of this residual negative feeling would dissipate.
"You guys don't get it.
It's not supposed to be a working program. Apple did it for the lolz!"
I did laugh out loud when I read that.. funny!
Part 2 is almost as funny, although maybe you could have tied in the iPhone's thinness or super light weight as a justification for carrying the Garmin. Actually, that would be a funny-ass YouTube video:
The title would be something like "Fixing your iPhone's map"
Then the video would show how to duct tape a Garmin to the backside of your iPhone! haha!
This idea copyright(C) Luke Tomasello :-)
I see you got 4 likes, congratulations :)
A couple points though:
"Has anyone managed to find any defect with the iPhone 5 thus far?!! I didn't think so..."
Well, actually yeah. Here is a list of the top 9 complaints: http://huff.to/Q6biwW
"The apps for the map can be easily fixed if need"
Incorrect-o! I see you know nothing about mapping databases .. it's a huge deal and very hard to collect. It's not as if an engineer can stay up all night and 'fix a bug'.
You might like that video about the iPhone 5
Well, it's unfair and unfortunate but the bar for apple is way higher than for anyone else.
Apple has in many ways done this to themselves by perpetuating their snob appeal.
Apple isn't an every-man's phone, not like HTC, Samsung, Nokia, LG, etc.. they are something *special* and as such they will get scrutinized far more than any other smartphone manufacturer.
again you made me laugh.. you're on a roll man!
More to the point, 500 million uses in a week that number will only grow and even if it doesn't accelerate, that's 26 billion data points per year approximately. That's a foundation to build upon.
Amongst other "failures", Steve Jobs oversaw the release of Mobile Me, iPhone 4's antenna issues and Ping.
And surely "people" realize he was the one who called out the war on Android. Very likely it was under his tenure that the in-house maps movement started and gained traction.
Anyone suggesting that Jobs had the ability to make maps perfect in the time allotted (namely before the end of the GOOG/AAPL contract) is kidding themselves for the sake of a headline.
http://bit.ly/Of194q
Guy has a screw loose or he's out to distort things for his own purpose
I bet appl maps are pretty good. Info comes from DGI now the best satellite mapping Co going (also a great stock) ! Apple's maps are good now and will be the best sooner than it can make a difference.
Nice Tumblr compilation here. When I first saw this page, there was no Alexa rank. Yesterday the Alexa rank was near 100k and today it is near 30k. These are all actual problems submitted by other people. Some are quite hilarious, while others are just sad.
To be fair, Google Maps has been in continuous development for quite some time. Apple licenses TomTom, so the navigation should be better, but some of the other aspects are not working well. Also, it does appear most of the issues are happening outside the U.S.
Joshua Topolsky: "The iPhone 5 is unquestionably the best iPhone ever made ... but right now Apple seems to be in a holding pattern, too comfortable or too scared to take real chances."
Um, yeah... So on one hand Apple moved to in-house maps likely before they were ready to do so. On the other hand, they're not taking any real chances.
Confusing, to say the least. ;-)
When you replace an existing feature with an inferior feature that is not considered innovative - that's called stupid.
It is a measure of the cult-like power of the company that its users would defend it rather than criticize it for lowering the quality of the user's experience. Eventually, however this type of behavior sows the seeds of its eventual downfall.
Much more than a few bugs. The errors continue to pile up daily. These are actual submissions.
Any bugs in iMap application will be fixed via updating, I would imagine. This would be no different than any other app.
The map application is very different than most other applications.
If I have a bug in my music player an engineer can sit down and 'fix the bug', but if the map database (huge) is erroneous or incomplete, there is no 'bug' to fix.
Do you see the difference? It's a data collection/validation exercise. It takes outside data.. outside of the app itself.
They may even elect to monetize the application. What do you think?
http://bit.ly/Of194q
Just remember that these people posting the map failures are using iOS 6, which means they own some form of iDevice. They are all Apple customers.
It really is just another factor, and I think there are far better indicators. What is interesting is to see some analysts price targets go up, but not see a change in earning estimates also go up. Of course if the companies where those analysts work have long options positions, then a higher price target may cause the value of those options to appreciate. At the moment there is nearly nothing illegal about that.
Later on, If the stock crashes and IV increases, then it is a normal and expected behavior and the stock will form a down trend. But if the stock dips but IV decreases (and I've seen Apple do this a few times) then it's a signal for reversal back up (and we should buy the dip).
What I find option volume useful, is when I'm trying to guess which strike price the Apple will pin to (it tends to gravitate toward a strike price toward the Friday close due to options expiration) Market makers and large participants usually have the ability to manipulate the stock a few points toward the strike, and they'd choose a strike with highest open interest volume.
"Just went on a trip to new parts of my world using new maps function. Worked just fine. Turn by turn directions are at least as good as the google maps from my laptop. The full google maps is still buggy and still gives bad turn by turn directions at least 1/3rd of the time."
Yeah, you're the only one then...
It's now very well documented Apple's maps are full on crap. Saying their are at least as good as Google's is just disingenuous.
Also, there is scuffgate http://bit.ly/UyhQEL
And now purplegate (camera hardware failure) http://bit.ly/SIiqDu
I'm not short Apple, but as an investor I'm raising a flag to serious problems with the iPhone 5 and IMHO, Apple in general.
When you say, "as an investor" you mean in general right? Because it sounds like you are saying you are long AAPL, but I don't think you are, are you?
And if you're speaking in general "as an investor" about "problems with Apple" it sounds like you are suggesting it is not a good investment? Is this what you're saying, because "as an investor" I have found these kind of assessments fun to revisit the following year.
This is antennagate all over again. Right down to the slightly late apology by the CEO. It confirms for everyone that already believes that Apple is a sinking ship exactly what they already think. And for the general consumer it appears to be nothing but a distraction that will hardly be remembered in a year or two.
Apple can't have it both ways. They can't be the greatest consumer electronics company in the world and not get viral scrutiny about such revelations as "aluminum can be scratched with a key". But they have to live with that. And any other company would love to be in that position. If it turned out that one of Nokia's Lumia 920 colored cases faded prematurely in uneven blotches, can you imagine the outrage that would spread all over the internet? Yeah, me neither.
The outpouring of criticism Apple receives for any imperfection, real or imagined, is not actually a sign of trouble. It is a sign of their on going dominance of the consumer electronics market. The day something happens at Apple and the internet shrugs? That will be the day they are in trouble.
But the google maps application the new apple maps replaces was godawful -- it had no turn-by-turn making it useless at best and dangerous at worst to use while driving. And google would not give apple the full turn-by-turn app that is used in Android.
And even the full turn-by-turn google maps program you can get on a laptop is full of bugs and problems to this day -- better than it was last year or the year before for sure. But still gets a direction challenged dude like myself lost on a regular basis.
Did apple release this thing a bit prematurely? Sure. Is it the end of the world? Of course not. Does it work reasonably well in US -- yes it does -- half a billion map searches to date -- if it didn't work reasonably well everyone would have already stopped using it.
The entire iPhone + apps artifact is possibly the most complex and sophisticated artifact available for sale to the general public. It is mostly software and as software gets more complex it becomes increasingly impossible for anyone or any company to make it totally bug free. The consumer does the last bit of debugging -- Think of those incredibly buggy windows opsys. Or the first version of any complicated game.
Apple is better than anyone else but far, far from perfect. I can get my iMac to crash if I really try. That's just life.
"MacRumors posted an informal poll on its website that shows more than 36% of nearly 1,400 new iPhone 5 owners have scratches that were evident on their device as soon as they took it out of the box." http://bit.ly/UTKCUT
That's significant. I don't know about you, but when I bring something home I want it 'like new'.
I will agree that Apple is scrutinized more than all other smartphone manufacturers, but that's partially because of the aura of perfection and glam Apple has helped to build.
With regard to Apple being a good investment, that is for the individual to determine; personally I do not think so, not at these levels and especially with the lack of innovation and quality going into the iPhone 5.
http://cnet.co/S6yT51#!
Ugggh...plastic covers, anyone?
The antenna issue of the iPhone 4 was solved with free covers. It would be an easy solution for Apple to offer those. There are too many underworked lawyers in California already, so a class action lawsuit is probably too tempting for some of them. So now we will wait to see how quickly Apple responds.
The complaints are coming from Apple's customers http://bit.ly/UTKCUT
Try this for the iPhone 5:
http://bit.ly/P0IOIo
Or, put another way, 652 people claim to have scratches on a phone they say they just purchased. Forgive me if I'm not blown away by that notion.
When you drop this phone, it will surely scratch, but will it break? Probably not as likely as the 4s. Apple made a design decision and chose not to do a glass back this time, no doubt to add much needed strength to the very small frame. Aluminum does scratch. There's no doubt about that. Not sure that rises to the level of scandal. If 36% of people who buy this phone really are receiving a scratched product, that is a real problem. (That would be 3 million phones by now.) But some informal survey that doesn't even make you prove you bought a phone in the first place is probably not the way to assess the magnitude of this problem.
In that case it was the screen that was said to be prone to scratching. Interestingly, the original lawsuit named a person who said he never agreed to be named as the plaintiff. The lawyers bringing suit refused to remove his name and threatened to sue him for attempting to interfere with their suit. Not the most pristine example of lawyers acting in good faith. Apple settled what was bound to be a costly distraction for 22.5 million. Remember they also settled with ProView and re-purchased the license they had already bought for the iPad name in China. That was 60 million.
Apple has a tendency to be very strategic about these cases. It would not surprise me if some law firm is salivating over the opportunity to sue them over the iPhone 5. That would not in and of itself mean there was any merit to the case, however.
Why should I believe an "informal poll"? More FUD?
Analogies are always fun... but most of the times are completely misleading.
Honda gets easily scratched, just like every other competitor...
IPhone gets easily scratched, unlike some other competitors...
See the difference?
since you seem already overly bearish, I hate to direct you to more negative info, but, actually, Apple sites have many articles which are far from complimentary of Apple:
http://bit.ly/P30e6Y
http://bit.ly/QpVFPu
I try to make it a point to read the positive and negative stuff....
A little 11" MacBook Air will display at full high resolution 2560x1440 on this 27" monitor because of TB - looks awesome.
I don't have an iPhone, but Nocera is the only one who says the iPhone 5 is a disaster. Most of Nocera's articles are worthless anyway so why make a big deal about this one.
Agreed, it was a lame move to dispense with Google Maps. Google already has an app, the question is how long will it take Apple to accept it. I think customers will decide for Apple.
Classic.
The iPhone 5 is destined to become the standard upon which all other smartphones will be judged. No need for useless features, geeky design, unwanted stuff. Just great design, clean look and really, really fast.
Now about the Apple Maps...too much ado about nothing. The problem is not with the app itself although it has some problems rendering 3D bridges but the map data which Apple sourced from TomTom. With cloudsourcing, I have no doubt Apple will improve the accuracy of the map data but the real culprit here shouldn't be Apple but TomTom.
Will the Apple Maps "fiasco" hurt sales of the iPhone 5?
Not likely. After all, there are dozens of third-party Maps apps available but one thing that Apple did right, I think, is to get rid of Google Maps.
Hasta la vista, Google!
Not including NFC in this release is another excellent example of this mindset.
Innovators lead they don't follow - without Jobs AAPL is becoming a follower.
Just in case anyone accuses me if never pointing out problems with Apple: there were many things under SJ's watch that were far from perfect....Jobs didnt originally want third party apps, just Apple designed apps...was that brilliance? What else?....antennae gate, Safari would crash and still does, managing music playlists is cumbersome, video even worse, and who decided not to include the alarm app for the iPad? This map thing is minor in comparison....to me, they just can't figure out a better thing to harp on, so that is the map "whipping boy" for now....watch it blow over as soon as a better story hits the presses....
.....the culture at Apple was good, but never was everything they did perfect under SJ....selective memory....feeds their thesis....
Just like the iPhone 4 antenna issues, I don't think Apple Maps issues will push away potential purchasers. The style and design, and that Apple logo on the back, are the most important aspect for purchasers, especially early adopters. Of people I know with older iPhone models, some are choosing to stick with iOS 5, rather than be on the bleeding edge of releases.
If I really want Google maps, I can delay my OS change on my iPad, or I can just put google maps on favorites in Safari....problem solved....Apple will be improving their map app as they go....Also, I use maps programs on the iPad, phone maps are too small for me when I'm driving....Google maps has been less than stellar for me when it comes to locating local businesses, so I actually think it won't matter to me....
It said I could then upload to any Android device. However, after it was done 122 songs remained and 3 of them were the only songs I had purchased thru itunes. So much for the claim.
Oh well, guess I don't how too much invested in any ecosystem to be concerned about no matter what platform I use.
How to Remove DRM Protection from iTunes for Free: http://bit.ly/Q339Yz
"iTunes is definately the undisputed champion of media downloading services.
The annoying part is that iTunes purchased songs and videos will not run on any other media player except for Apple products due to digital rights managements (DRM) which limit usages of devices or files."
You can find lot of sites about this. Just google for "itunes drm protection"
I'm sure you can import all songs into Android, after removing these protections.
This is more a part of the tit for tat battle in tech right now more than a real problem. Google derived a lot of revenue from maps and searches from maps and now it is lost.
Under Steve Jobs, this would've been handled quickly, and we would see something better. I would bet that Jobs would not have allowed this release until it was more polished. Eventually Apple Maps will be a good looking and working application, but at the moment it appears to be in beta.
It amazes me the lengths people go to apologizing for Apple. Criticism, and the response the company provides, are ways to improve the user experience. Or don't you want Apple to improve?
http://bit.ly/Tjx45D
http://bit.ly/NLgCre
The average iPhone purchaser is completely clueless about the specs. Obviously this video clip is just in fun, but it shows a reality of perception. When the iPhone 4 came out, I had at least half the people who owned one tell me that "4" meant it was 4G capable.
People buy any new iPhone because of the look and feel. Of course they want it to work, but most users never get into the advanced functions. Few users push their devices to be so fast that they will notice the difference. Carrier through-put and connection signal strength will often impact performance. Early adopters get the latest iPhone for instant gratification, and kudos for Apple milking that with free news coverage of their store, even though historically barely 15% of iPhone purchases are done at an Apple Store.
The iPhone 5 will sell because people think it is cool, and they want to impress someone, or they want what they perceive it to be. Those who want a bigger screen will shop somewhere else. Smartphones are quickly becoming commodity products.
As to whether or not I personally like the iPhone, that should have no bearing on whether or not I buy or sell shares in Apple. It should also have no bearing on whether or not I buy shares in any other company. I don't need to buy barrels of oil from Total (TOT) in order to justify holding shares in their company.
It has grown tiring listening to the whining that accompanies every Apple release over the past year while Google fanboys tout Android.
I don't own anything Google. In fact, I use Yahoo search on my MacBook Pro as the default search engine. I don't own shares in either company.
What I do have is 18 years of owning and using Apple computers. I have also bought adn sold shares of AAPL numerous times over many years. I have never regretted taking profits in AAPL shares. Given a pullback in AAPL I may be tempted to buy shares again in the future.
You must be very new to Apple to think they never make mistakes, because that is what you are implying. You appear to think that there is nothing wrong, and that Google "fanboys" are making up these issues. Maybe it surprises you that there are people who expect Apple to do better.
Back when OS 8.5 and 9 were the main Apple OS, I used a feature called Sherlock, which searched multiple search engines at the same time. Somewhere I may still have an Apple T-shirt from the Sherlock intro, which I got at one of their product release conferences.
http://bit.ly/QOaegJ
For example, often times I want to search for a book, so you can hit "!a valuation" and get an Amazon search for valuation. Or Google News "!n Egypt", or YouTube "!v regression analysis excel".
As for the core search engine itself, it is not as good as Google, but it does often give you different and sometime better results. On the plus side, it does not use adaptive search, meaning it does not adapt the results to your search history.
App ecosystem, mobile dev ecosystem and the best mobile processor's custom designed (A5, A6) in the world, but they do not have anything close to a monopoly unless you just talk about profit which Apple earned by merit in the open marketplace and not thru government granted monopolies (cable, and cell phone companies).
"When the iPhone 4 first launched two years ago, quite a few users got devices that had odd yellow spots in some areas, for example.
This time around, the issues are a bit more mysterious. Some iPhone 5s, for example, show an odd bubble effect when their users press the screen too hard. Others report that their screens are flickering and are blurry in some areas."
It might still be the best-selling phone and AAPL should go up... but Apple is really losing their grip. What happened to "quality first"?
Apple is implementing a new display technology in the iP5....it isn't the same, but is thinner, more vibrant, and uses less power.... even pressing the older LCD screens will produce an effect...but the other defects may have to be worked out....
The other factor is that they are diversifying suppliers as well as moving away from Samsung components....despite their copycatting, they have excellent component quality control....better than what the current suppliers have....but, I have no doubt that Apple will replace faulty devices.... they will have to pressure their current suppliers on QC, as they have pressured Foxconn to change their worker conditions and compliance with Chinese law....
I wrote a short product strategy analysis here: http://bit.ly/NLtT2Y
If you don't believe that then at what length is it too long?
not sure what you mean, In terms of size,
iPhone 5, 4-inch
Lumia 920, 4.5 inches
Galaxy S3, 4.8 inches
One X, 4.7 inches.
It is still more pocketable than the other flagships, eh?
Probably this version. LOL
As far as I know Android phones are pretty good, but there are many who would rather switch to iOS, like my girlfriend did....perhaps they are not AS good?....don't know...
What I do know is that, unlike a Trojan, phones and tablets are not "one size fits all", and customers do want some degree of choice...I want a bigger screen, but not bad enough to switch platform...the equation would turn out different for different people....as far as iPads, we will soon have some choices: 10"....7"....and 3.5" (iPod touch), similarly, for Macs, there are several choices. For phones iOS has many choices as far as function (apps), but only one size....if that ever changes, it will be a good thing....
Oh...and sometimes the competition does things better than Apple: Google search, Google's chrome browser (not mobile chrome), Facebook social network, and the OEMs size options, and even BBs physical keyboard as an option.... just because someone else did it better or did it first doesn't mean Apple shouldn't try to improve too....
By the way I have patented a 4" long screen so I will be logging on from my new private Caribbean island next week.
Apple is bold, like Steve Jobs would have been. I'm totally sure Steve Jobs would have done the same thing.
Apple hates Google so that is what drove them into maps and they are control freaks.
The most interesting part of it is that competition has forced their hand in a visible way. This will be a slug fest and both will get their lumps.
Apple: - We'll spend up to 40 billion dollar to make sure Android dies.
Google: - Oh yeah? And we'll make sure Google apps are crippled under iOS.
Go to google map and add to the home key- click the icon to the left of the web address bar swipe to the second page. If you drag to the apple map a navigation folder automatically is generated. If you need walking or public transit info use google. The car navigation on Apple Maps is way better.
They will chose whatever way will facilitate their Apple bashing....inconsistent as the logic is...
Wow Lockman, you didn't read our comments right on this thread? I have always made it a point to keep my eyes open... however, the name calling, like "blind" and "fanboy" is inexcusable if you are trying to improve awareness and don't belong in any civil discussion...perhaps you have drifted from that intent a bit....maybe a little self-reflection is in order....
Here's our earlier statements:
http://bit.ly/RSzKpE
I also said these things on this thread that are clearly not fanboy talk:
"I get what you mean by perception about following the competition, but I would say that Apple needs to rise above that and do what is strategically optimal...to cede the 7" market because of pride is just plain idiotic....if they do that, THAT is precisely the type of errors that will get me questioning Apple's competency....not NFC or maps, but major strategic errors is what I am watching for...."
"I expect Apple to bite the bullet and cut into their Mac lines...disrupt themselves....they did it with the iPhone, canabalizing their iPods....I'd like them to do it again, this time with the iPad...."
I don't notice you criticizing anyone for android based negative comments only Apple, so, I don't see you as objective perspective.
You can try to justify yourself but the fact that you have to respond to my reply is enough proof in my experience as to where you are coming from.
Did you even notice that I did not mention you in the reply.
Apple is not sacred and doesn't need your emotional support.
And don't get your pantys in a wad over comments that don't have both barrels aimed at you.
I shouldn't have replied, as it shows my guilt as a fanboy? You specifically posted your comment as a reply to mine....so of course, it seems directed at me....and, after all, I am an Apple investor and a Apple consumer....and an AAPL bull, but neither blind nor am I a lemming....
I don't expect to be considered as completely objective, just open-minded....I have been a known investor in AAPL and someone who likes the prospects of the company and stock....
Lockman, this is an AAPL thread, I'm not on some hopeless crusade to turn every poster on an AAPL thread to be objective about MS or AAPL....I find it unnecessary to prove my objectivity by picking fights with the bulls on this thread....
I agree that apple is neither sacred, nor does it need my support...I have said similar words myself....
Watch it with the panties comment....I try to be reasonable, but I'm known to be pretty aggressive when pissed off....dont start a war unless you WANT to be in the middle of one....
You have no comment about your own behavior or your language? ...I guess you didn't self-reflect at all then....unfortunate
Apple apps have some negative history - the recent Podcasts app is an awful app that had huge negative reviews (check the app store) and was clearly a work-in-progress, for one of the ecosystem's biggest draws - podcasts via iTunes.
Check out how the verious mobile mapping solutions compare to each other: http://bit.ly/OVCPio
A GPS in a smartphone is a good feature for me, as it can replace my current Garmin, but if people don't use GPS at all, it doesn't matter which mapping solution they end up with.
Three years worth of data suggest 17.8% of users are using Maps. So it is not a huge user base, but if this is something important to an end user, it might be a deal breaker. Currently around 152k apps are available on multiple platforms.
Honestly, I just don't think that is the case for any except for a very small minority....within the US, the map data seems to be much better than outside of the US....even with the posted pics of the problems, they appeared to be amusing to them rather than frustrating....
.....and just anecdotally, I haven't heard much about this from real users, nor have I run into comments on SA stating that they were buying a iP5 but the maps thing was too much and they cancelled their order.....have you seen this, maybe one, maybe none? Seems like FUD to me.....
I'm sorry if I can't give you the motives of the rest of the people who want a GPS feature included in their phones but I can only answer for my self when I say: "it can replace my current Garmin"
Wasn't this exactly what you asked?
Then, why the need to call me a troll? Just because you prefer other brand yourself?
While we're here, I'll take the chance to answer your second question:
"Don't most new cars have GPS built in, and add-ons like TomTom and Garmin are mostly in-hand by anyone who wants one?"
Yes, but an integrated GPS solution for my car is around 2500€.
Way too much money... and why would anyone prefer going on holiday with a phone + a GPS device instead of a single device combining the 2 features?
The best way to confirm that is not in the Seeking Alpha forums but in Apple oriented forums, such as Mac Rumours or The Cult of Mac.
In Seeking Alpha, you'll mostly find noise.
btw, I notice the change in your tone...and appreciate the effort....
Is the reaction out of proportion? Maybe yes, maybe not. I've read somewhere that maps was among the top 5 apps being used in smartphones. If that's true, maybe users are more interested in driving directions than most smartphone brands think.
Of course some folks are just joking and having some fun but I expect them to be Apple fans. (Very few lunatics would buy an expensive product just to joke about it.)
Refining the date further I would add the following.
1. The data included kids from 13 and over which don't need the maps until they are likely around 18 and leaving home. This then reduces the denominator so the % jumps.
2. If you need maps and feel you have to get a GPS this is additional expense.
3. I only use maps a few times per year but I want it to work when I do. Not sure how this comes out in the data.
4. Feedback on maps will come over time as people move to use it. For most people it is not a daily application but Apple will take a hit to their brand for this half baked application which will only worsen if they don't fix it. Not sure they can fix it that quickly though.
This is also true of many other apps, and somewhat true of music libraries. Major apps are available across devices. Music, unless it is locked down as rights protected content, can be ported or synced quite easily. People who sometimes speak about the "ecosystem" ignore that few people are locked into an operating system. This is not much different than the desktop. On a smaller scale, look at all the Palm apps developed years ago, yet few people had trouble leaving that platform as it moved towards phones.
While there are some people who will not give up specific, or exclusive apps, these people are a subset of overall end users on any platform. There are some people who have bought many apps, though this is another niche, and research indicates most people purchase very few apps.
That leaves the biggest tie-in, which is actually the carrier. We saw that in testimony at the Samsung vs. Apple trial. Information presented there indicated that many Verizon customers were unwilling to switch to AT&T just to get an iPhone, so they bought an Android phone instead.
So far I know some iPhone 4S users who will not be getting an iPhone 5, and will not be updating to iOS 6. Some others are not too concerned about the Maps, and are more interested in the panorama photo feature.
The biggest issue at the moment is the riot at Foxconn involving over 2000 workers. Civil unrest in China is disrupting the Apple supply chain. I think this is why shares have dipped, though there has been quite a run-up without any release of financial information.
Some of the researchers may look a bit more into map usage, but it will take months for new data to really show more detail. There are other reports that somewhat match the usage data in that link, but rather than write an article in a comment, I will leave it up to others to find more research. Obviously, never just use one source of data to make investment decisions.
....yet most reports center around alleged ongoing disrespect as well as verbal and physical abuse by guards at the dormitories and managers, another issue that Foxconn needs to address, rather than a problem because of iP5 demand....it doesn't seem necessarily related to Apple, but may be internal problems in Foxconn's management style, and with dorm security behaving like bullies....
"News reports and witnesses said the violence Sunday night in Taiyuan in northern China stemmed from a confrontation between a factory worker and a guard that escalated. One employee reached by telephone said the violence was fueled by workers' anger about mistreatment by Foxconn security guards and managers."
"Foxconn, some supervisors, and security guards never respect us," said the employee, who asked not to be identified by name. "We all have this anger toward them and they (the workers) wanted to destroy things to release this anger."
As far as supply issues, I wonder if the bottleneck might have to do with the screen quality problems that were raised prior to launch, problems with supplier Sharp, rather than Foxconn?
So much for being cool and they sell a lot on the cool factor.
"Interesting that Apple has been hiring ex Google Maps veterans to work on this"
Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen for hiring people who have inside knowledge or IP on Google Maps.
Apple users appear to be more willing to put up with any issues, in comparison to other brands. They happily waited for 4G LTE and very likely they are fine waiting for NFC at some point in the future. Quite likely many will happily wait for better maps, or download another map app.
Apple culture is no longer about buying the best, it's about buying the coolest gadgets, no matter their quality.
Hell, some people don't even know why they want Apple...
Waiting for an iPhone 5...for no reason: http://bit.ly/QSp3yM
Owning Apple is now a trend, as the Levis jeans once were, but nothing more than a trend. It will go the way every other trend goes: which is to slowly fade away. (I just don't know when... and not willing to gamble on it.)
Should Apple be held legally liable for Foxconn's management practices?
I don't think so.
The media keeps harping on Apple's culpability on this issue but in reality, Apple has very little control over the management practices of its third-party suppliers. After all, Apple is not in the business of enforcing labor laws. That's the job of the Chinese gov't. Period.
Nike had the same issues .
If Apple does not get their crap together on these issues they are going to get beat severely. Denial and avoidance is not a strategy.
I suspect Apple's investors couldn't care less about how many people are exploited as long as Apple keep its profits... but with their kind of profit margins, they have nothing to worry about.
At this pace, the next iPhone will cost less than $150 to manufacture... and in 2010 Apple will be making $30 phones and selling them by $700.
First, Hon Hai and Foxconn and their employees and management are number one in responsibility for the problems, as they are the ones directly participating in bad behavior...I don't like it when the responsibility is deflected away from the front line where the problems are occurring....
Next, the Chinese government is responsible for enforcing their own laws...now the Chinese government, more than most governments, given the nature of their system, could have this monitored and corrected relatively quickly....
Third, and this is where I Agree with Tomas, is that
"Apple ....hold(s) the position of leverage and by doing nothing are condoning it." also, I am not sure why only Apple is held to account....as far as I've heard, Foxconn makes products for dozens of large corporations....it seems only fair to expect them to take action as well....
I think that responsibility lies with these parties, and in that order....
Really? So how come the Chinese media does NOT blame Apple for Foxconn's management practices but only the U.S. media which does this after every Apple product launch?
@mitrado
"At this pace, the next iPhone will cost less than $150 to manufacture... and in 2010 Apple will be making $30 phones and selling them by $700"
The labor cost in assembling the iPhone is quite low with the majority being the BOM, i.e., screen, battery, processor, baseband chipsets, flash memory. Over time, the costs of the components will go down but labor costs will remain the same. However, the labor costs in China is growing rapidly and I wouldn't be surprised if Foxconn moves its factories outside of China in a few more years. This is already happening in the apparel and leather goods industries. Nike, for example, is closing most of its factories in China and moving them to countries like Vietnam.
Smartphone ASPs will decline over time especially when the smartphone market reaches the early majority phase which will take a few more years. In China, sub-$100 smartphones targeting the low-end are already out in the market. Apple's brand, channels, platform (iOS), ecosystem (iTunes/AppStore), services (iCloud, Maps, Siri), design, technology (A6 CPU designed in-house) will allow Apple to price its products at a premium for years and years to come.
Internal component costs are already in the $105.00 to $150.00 range. That would leave the case, packaging, software development and advertising expenses. An older iPhone sold at $299 off contract would still be profitable.
Smartphones are quickly becoming commodities, just like dumb phones were in the past. Apple has iTunes music and apps for recurring revenue. At some point the user base will be more important than new device sales. Then Apple iAD will become an important source of revenue. This will take a few more years.
I think that this is simultaneously untrue and unfair....
Apple investors don't differ morally from other investors. Where is any evidence for the accusation? I have spoken out in the past as this is an older issue....personally, my original occupation is centered around helping others, and I hold a special interest in the welfare of other people....even if they are on the other side of the globe....
and, I have buds on SA who are very, very, long AAPL, and I will attest to their character....they are good guys who care about people....
Yet, as I stated above, as investors, I don't feel that we are the primary mechanism for change to be enacted, nor do we hold responsibility for Foxconn abuse....I think that Cook seems to be more empathetic than SJ....and has tried to enact change...change which is in process over time according to Foxconn....
If I say, "I suspect" that you are stealing from me.....should I interpret that as a simple innocuous passing comment or an accusation?
It is questioning the character of a whole lot of people, no?
Of course. Can't I?
Wall Street and Moral Values don't seem to go well with each other.
If Wall Street was a place only for investors with character, there would be no short selling 'cause that means betting on the failure of a company. Not exactly a very moral thing to do, is it?
True and false. True for Android smartphones. False for the iPhone. Just think about this: the resale value of used iPhones is HIGHER than the list price of new but low-cost Android smartphones.
"It is questioning the character of a whole lot of people, no?"
Of course. Can't I?
Sure you can, but it is unfair, and could be considered a personal attack....I don't like it and I think that others here won't either...
You know nothing about me and the others you are disrespecting with such comments....
The same I said for Apple is valid for every other company, including the ones I invest into. My feeling is that most investors care only about profits and nothing else really matters.
And by this I refer mainly to the big sharks who can move markets, not to every individual investor. Most of the times I say "investors" I really mean "Wall Street."
Sorry, I should have been more clear about this.
I will answer all the comments in one thread.
It is really critical for Apple to protect its brand. That is what allows a company to charge a premium for their products. That alone should spur them to get on top of any labor issues. They need to have codes of conduct for their suppliers and hold them to it with penalties. Most large companies have these in place.
Secondly the Chinese government doesn't give a shit about their people so don't take any tips from them.
Third look at Nike's experience and understand what they eventually had to do which was not that hard really but you have to care and you have to believe you are a responsible stakeholder in the value chain. It is very unseemly to charge $100 for a pair of tennis shoes and pay people a pittance each day. Apple's problem is 700% worse than Nike and they have tens of billions in the bank. They are painting a huge target on their face and asking for it.
If Apple does not take care of this issue which is really not that difficult they will pay the consequences. There is no upside to ignoring it and being arrogant.
I applaud you advocating for human rights and better working conditions....I think that we agree more than disagree on this topic...I think that it is a good thing for Apple to try to positively influence the situation....
Where we part ways is that I think that there is a definate hierarchy of responsibility, as I have already discussed. Also, I separate out actions and responsibility more than it seems that you do... I think that there is a definite difference between doing good and the responsibility to do that good.... for example, if I see a motorist stranded with a flat tire, and I stop to help them change the tire....that is doing good. Do I feel that it is necessarily my responsibility to do this?.....no....I think that Apples responsibility is a little more than this, but it is a grey rather than a black and white matter....
From Hon Hai's perspective, and from Chinese government's perspective, they may feel that this is none of Apple's business to be dictating to them the management style of a Chinese company....don't forget, Apple does not own this business, but is merely a business partner....
I find it a bit inconsistent that you seem to consider Apple a bully and one to go overboard in asserting control outside its own business, and even within its business (which seems well within their rights)....yet, you seem to think that it is a moral imperative for them not only to be assertive, but to dictate to Foxconn on a number of their business practices....For me, I think that they have much more right to advocate for their own IP, then it is their right to dictate terms to Foxconn....yet because of the importance of reasonable working conditions, I understand Apple making efforts in this direction....
As you mentioned, from Apple's perspective, Hon Hai's practices has an effect on Apple's brand....the degree to which this is true, IMO, is less than you are presenting, because not everyone feels nearly as strongly as you do about this.....yet, it is a worthy cause, nevertheless....
Since Cook has gone as far as to go to China and discuss this with Foxconn and gain some agreements for change from them, I would say that Apple has done far more than I have seen a company do in this particular worker issue at Foxconn....I have heard nothing about any of the other corporations doing so....I think that it is a good idea, for the other corporations to join forces with Apple in pressuring Foxconn...this all may be a sticky issue though, because as I mentioned, this can be construed as undue manipulation on their part, and create some political tension between governments....
You are suggesting that they are arrogant, but I get a very opposite impression based on their actions.....I believe that Cook has done far more than SJ or any other CEO has done for this situation.
I can only conclude that such an undeserved response stems from some resentment that people harbor for Apple.....I don't see any arguments that anyone else has any responsibility in this matter....just Apple alone.....as I laid out, I think the primary and secondary responsibilities lie with Foxconn and with the Chinese government.....Apple's responsibility is tangential....yet they have made efforts where no one else seems to be making....
Nike is a good case study. Denial was followed by a recognition that they were not going to be able to hide and then they got involved. Apple is the big guy making a massive amount of money so they will have to play.
It is not inconsistent to look at their IP activities and their brand activities. Both fall under pushing the envelope for their own benefit without regards to being a good corporate citizen. Oracle can do this easier since they sell B to B but Apple is a consumer brand that depends on hype and buzz. That hype and buzz can turn on you too if you don't do the right things. And sometimes it is just the effort that counts.
It is possible that additional pressure from Cook might prove counterproductive, rather than helpful....I know that when pushed instead of asked, I tend to push back......I wouldn't expect different from the Chinese.....and Cook has already pushed, and should he start shoving, it might lead to trouble.......
Tomas, I think that it is being grossly unfair to view this as a matter of Apple merely looking after their own best interests....I actually believe that if they chose to have never done anything at all, they would have gotten away with it and demand would remain very high for their products....
However, there comes a point where doing the right thing is worth some substantial extra effort....I believe that it is simply ignoring the facts to claim that Cook has not made much efforts in this area....neither you or I have bought tickets, jumped on a plane to China, and seen what we might do to help....talk is just talk....it's where the rubber hits the road that counts....I know, because of my occupation....there are many good "talkers"....I respect the "doers"....Cook has been a doer...and to say otherwise is unfair in my opinion....
Cook needs to be on the supply chain simply to make sure it can produce enough units at the quality level they need to run their business.
Then no one was able (even in the highest service tiers) how to do a secure erase before sending my transmigrated data even with second party software.
I spent hours on this since I have data I do not want reconstructed by some nerd in Shanghai. I finally had to pull the drive and did a 15 pass zeroing that twice the requirement for government documents, but, I was told not to do this by Apple's minions and they would not do it even if I brought into the "geniuses".
Did you read about my Mac G5 having its hard drive erased and all the was left was the hackers calling card? That was a fun tower. It sounded like a 747 taking off when you turned in on.
Or the last Mac Pro that had gremlins causing the updates to retrograde? Or my laptop that was recalled before it burst into flames. In these past incidents, I had much greater respect for Apples service. Generally, their QC was above average. When I had a problem, it got fixed without a lot of hassles. I received a better laptop (Pismo) for the potential flamer and so on. However, from the latest Mac Pro on (been using Apple products since the Apple II), the service has been dismal and I am required to prove my problems in black and white to guys who can't even tell me how do a secure erase on my hard drive before sending back to China. That is when my loyalty to Apple waned. The iphone was the stake in my heart that ended any attachment to any product they produce. See I used to look at everything they put out and try to figure a way I could incorporate it into my life.
After getting burned, I do the opposite. See if I can do without it.
Do you think your experience is just a lemon experience which is bad luck? Or something else?
sorry to hear about the problems....I did not have such a negative experience....but like you I have used various products all the way back to Mac II (well, not quite as long as you, but close enough)....For the most part, there were not very many failures that happened prior to them running a reasonable lifespan....most ran so long that I was still keeping Mac pluses around when they looked like they belonged in museums...My family's G5 eventually failed, but not less than a decade in....
With the Apple stores, the attention that they pay to problems is far beyond what most people expect....but perhaps they lack the technical expertise level you required....I think that it would be a good idea to fix that.....for instance, in my local area we have 3 Apple stores....the stores should have at least one highly technical geek who is paid very well to service situations beyond what most of the "geniuses" are capable of handling....
Perhaps there are suggestions you can make to Apple that will help....
I didn't realize you went back as far as you have. Good to know.
I still have a quadra 700 down in my basement for some ungodly reason.
I am really more of a phone user than most. I run my entire locksmithing business with it, so, I probably am not the average phone user by a long shot.
I have had my share of Window based problems as well. Enough to keep my MacPro as my preferred method of addressing the web on almost all fronts.
Thanks for asking.
...perhaps they should have never gone the Motorola route in the first place....
Geniuses are not what they are made out to be, but then again it is not like they are paying these people in the stores that much. They are barely better than when we use to call in to Apple Support, and some "expert" would invariably tell you to reformat the drive and re-install everything. On the older laptops a re-install of necessary third party software meant at least 10 hours to get everything back to the way it was. Now on the newer machines it means about 4 hours. I suppose that is progress of a sort. Time Machine helps a bit.
I dread the idea of needing to send my MacBook Pro in for service. I keep a slightly older one as a back-up machine, just in case. If you need a laptop for work, and not just for entertainment, then you always have a back-up. They do have a long lifespan, though I'm not so sure on the latest with many solder connections and even thinner cases to load up on dust and heat.
I did buy my wife an Apple machine and I ended up taking it back. The biggest problem was that all the 3rd party software she was used to using was not supported by Apple.
Does anyone have experience with a great piece of back up software for both Mac and another for PC? I used to use carbon copy but I haven't used any third party automatic programs, only the default ones.
I remember when the first Mac hard drive came out. It was like 10 megs and cost what, something over $1000?
So if you are only going to backup your files I just make sure they are all in a directory on the hard drive under documents or something like that and then just copy that over to an external hard drive daily or weekly. If you do it this way you can use the files immediately on another machine.
My experience with back up software is that it often backs up a lot of stuff I don't care about which takes forever and it may compress it so you cannot use it immediately elsewhere.
I am with you on the soldered ram and for me, non removable batteries (although I cracked open my iphone 4 and replaced it.).
MacBooks are by far the nicest laptops I have owned and the most expensive. Mine was over $3500 with the SSD in it. I just haven't really enjoyed lion as much as snow leopard.
What software do you run, Hansa?
I was very impressed in the Dell laptops some years ago. They seem to be built to drive nails on the business side. I fixed all sorts of things myself with the help of Ebay for parts for upgrades and repairs. Haven't rummaged around much in the MacPro other than to change ram and hard drives though.
I tend to stay just slightly behind the bleeding edge of technology changes. Being an early adopter can cause problems with third party software. Also, new prices always decline a bit months after launch.
The 5300 was interesting, though the Wallstreet was the first really powerful laptop I owned. The keyboard on the Wallstreet was the best I have ever used on a laptop, though it was way too bulky to be continued on later versions. So now we are stuck with Chicklets.
"I remember when the first rotating portrait display came out, it was a really big deal! I remember when the first Mac hard drive came out"
Yeah, that rotating display is the one that I'm talking about...you could use it in landscape too....
I don't recall what was the first hard drive, was that the first Mac?
The MacII at work used to have hard drives, and later, the Mac SE had hard drives....I never worked on the original Mac....
I know that my Pluses didn't have hard drives....I would get them upgraded with all the RAM that could be shoved in there, and they would work pretty well....the Mac software was so efficient back then, they could run on these machines with so little power...stuff like MacWrite.....I used to consider non-Mac stuff bloatware, but now everything seems bloated and needs powerful processors....
"Why do so many people want turn-by-turn navigation on an iPhone?"
I myself like it when I'm walking somewhere. Recently I was walking to a farmers market but I wasn't exactly sure which street to take. My map app conveniently has walking directions, so it saved me from making a wrong turn and getting lost.
Um, so I went to Google maps to see if this store was as desolate as it appeared in the video..http://bit.ly/UyzgRy
Scott, there is nothing out there!
He start out on McKees Rocks Road, and the store is on McKees Rocks Road! there's pretty much no way to get lost.
Anyway, I'm sure Apple's maps can find most locations.. heck I've had voice assisted turn-by-turn navigation on my 2 year old Droid all along.
I'd bet that most of you guys don't buy Apple products judging on how you all like it dis them. Those of you that have iOS6, have you all gotten lost and felt helpless, so you are venting? Can't find your way? Can you find Safari, google search Google maps? If you're still lost, then come back and ask us questions.
This is an investment forum and we are discussing if Apple is 1) having trouble innovating, and 2) producing quality product.
Many like me are concerned with buying Apple at or near $700 because we worry if Apple has peaked. If we see more slipups we may turn to shorting the stock.
This is why the discussion. It's not hating Apple, it's wondering if it's a good buy at these prices.
Disclaimer: I'm also a Nokia long and I view the Nokia 920 as a better phone for the money, and mapping is one of Nokia's strong points. This is all very relevant to the discussion.
it was. The SE (SE30?) was the one of the first one's out with a built in hard drive so you didn't have to do the floppy shuffle. What a pain that was...
More powerful processors so we can see more ads! Soon in 4D and Dolby 12.2. ;)
... I think the IIs also had optional internal drives, cause at work I never did the shuffle....
Ads are getting really intrusive...greying out the whole screen....following as you scroll (stalking), sending you to their page when you click "x" to shut them off.....don't they realize that I will never buy crap that is shoved down my throat? Maybe someday I'll click "x" and the product will fall out onto my lap with my account already charged....
This level of discourse is nothing compared to some stocks. You should take a look at the comment stream for Interoil (IOC) articles some time.
It's a conspiracy!!! The aliens are coming!!! Run for your lives!
Now I'm starting to think Apple is losing its way.
Please check out these 7 pieces @ Mac Rumours:
1) Apple's New iOS 6 Maps App Drawing Significant Criticism http://bit.ly/PC1wTi
2) Black iPhone 5 Anodized Aluminum Susceptible to Scratching? http://bit.ly/QfltkP
3) LTE won't work on most European countries http://bit.ly/PC1wTm
4) No NFC chip, no Wireless Charging, but with a new Lightning Connector instead http://bit.ly/QfltkT
5) Reports of Slow and Inconsistent Wi-Fi Connections on Some iPhone 5 Devices http://bit.ly/PC1wTo
6) Siri Delivering Incorrect Weather Forecasts for Common City Names http://bit.ly/PC1uLl
7) Fix for App Store and Passbook "Can't Connect to iTunes Store" Error http://bit.ly/PC1wTs
It's a little too much, no? What happened to the testing phase?
http://on.wsj.com/Qw0yd0
The Chinese version of Apple Maps doesn't seem to be full of egregious mistakes, does it?
http://bit.ly/STgAKX
maybe Google should begin providing sub par search algorithms, custom made for iOS....then things will really hit the fan.....
I can't say I blame Google, it has somthing like 1,500 full time employees and as many as 6000 contractors working on its maps, that's a lot of time money and effort it has invested.
Over the medium to long term, Apple will be fine, and Google will have shot themselves in the foot....next up Google: yank search from iOS.....that would be entertaining.....
Maps seems to be not bad in the US, Looks to me like Google not only initiated the Map problem, but now, they are using deception to trick people into thinking the Maps are worse than they are....
http://bit.ly/QzwhKp
... and on Yahoo Maps
http://bit.ly/UPM1f4
What exactly is BGR trying to accomplish with this?
Can someone search for it and see what Apple comes up with?
http://mapq.st/PtVLGm
"The address you provided is not recognized by the US Postal Service as an address we serve. Mail sent to this address may be returned."
http://1.usa.gov/Qzxhym
http://bit.ly/TJgmNa
Type in 317 instead of 315, and it still gets you close. The NYC Parks Department maintains Stuyvesant Square.
Anyway, I am not sure what you are getting at here. I've seen the 3D view on iOS 6 using a New iPad, and the melting buildings and falling roadways are viewable. Clearly Apple Maps could use some fixes, otherwise why is Apple hiring former Google Maps staffers?
Let's say you're a tourist and there's a concert in the park. You would tell the taxi driver: "Please take me to Stuyvesant Square" not "Please take me to "315 E. 15th St." If you prefer walking, you would take out your map (or iPhone) and then look for "Stuyvesant Square" not "315 E. 15th St."