Seeking Alpha
Seeking Alpha Portfolio App for iPad
Finance
(1)
Market Currents

Research In Motion (RIMM -2.3%) made new lows today ahead of Thursday's FQ2 report, during which...

  • Monday, September 24, 2012, 7:02 PM ET
    Research In Motion (RIMM -2.3%) made new lows today ahead of Thursday's FQ2 report, during which the company is expected to announce its first-ever decline for its BlackBerry subscriber base. Along with the subscriber losses and declining phone sales, RIM is seeing falling ASPs: Canaccord's checks indicate that even in markets where low-end BlackBerrys continue selling well, high-end Bold and Torch models are selling poorly. RIM's annual developer conference starts tomorrow.
Track new comments on this story

This news story has 22 comments:

  • RIMM Bulls please give me some hope.
    24 Sep 2012, 07:40 PM Reply Like
  • Probably not much chance of that this time around. Implied Volatility is near 90% and the 6.00 Put is nearly four times the volume of open interest of any other position. I would be surprised if shares do not dip slightly below 6.00, perhaps as low as 5.76, just so the market makers can make all the options players happy.

    There is no moving RIMM shares until BB10 is officially released and available for purchase by the public. I cannot imagine anything of substance this week, other than maybe a peak at the devices. Based upon some rumored leaked images, it appears to look quite a bit like the iPhone 5 in shape, though with some noticeable differences, like a back panel that can be removed to add a microSD memory card, or to swap a battery.

    Probably need to follow November and December options at this point. The 6.00 strike is still heavily weighting into November, after which the 9.00 strike is seeing more activity. As it increasingly appears that an actual BB10 smartphone will be released for sale, the extreme views that it was impossible, or vaporware, will diminish. However, if enough negative bias in the media, or Cramer screams loud enough, most options players should be safe on a month to month basis.
    24 Sep 2012, 07:51 PM Reply Like
  • Yep, here you go.
    Finally, RIM's subscriber base has GROWN BY 2 MILLION since last Quarter.
    Don't believe the hype.
    I hope this will give some "experts" a lesson. Stop blah. Judge on facts and figures.

    The fact is Heins succeed - so far - in his action.
    The figures are ... 2 million (let's see how the experts valuate these and quickly reestimate their doom and gloom preachs).
    26 Sep 2012, 09:47 AM Reply Like
  • I give lots of hope because I have orders in place to add more in hopes stock drops a lot more this fall. RIMM had two billion in cash, no debts and is going to be just fine and one of the few in 2013 to be up hundreds of percentage points imo.
    JMO
    You can see my price targets under my ID.

    Good luck to you.

    Mark
    24 Sep 2012, 07:44 PM Reply Like
  • If it drops a lot more this fall and you can get it under 3 you might be able to double your money.
    24 Sep 2012, 10:54 PM Reply Like
  • ANR is another one and so is X imo...
    24 Sep 2012, 07:45 PM Reply Like
  • This is the boldest blackberry move that i have seen for a long while
    Thorsten Heins must be under allot of pressure to make such a hasty decision..Can an old dog really learn new tricks, especially in such a short time since his last failure ..He will be i am sure be very pleased with a hefty going away gift package ,i mean the dog, that is ! ...paul m sykes
    24 Sep 2012, 08:12 PM Reply Like
  • Wow, the hemorrhaging continues. I predicted 3 to 4 in Dec. of last year, but still wouldn't buy the stock at that level. bk coming.
    25 Sep 2012, 12:44 AM Reply Like
  • How do they go bankrupt when they are not borrowing money. They are a few years behind Nokia, who have a junk credit rating and difficulty borrowing money. Motorola went many multiple quarters without profit until the Google buyout.

    Options players at the moment do not agree with your 3.00 or 4.00 strike prices, based open the relatively low level of open interest. At that strike price, the company cash and the real estate value of their empty buildings would cover the market cap. In other words, those strike price levels value liquidation of the company, without sale of any equipment, patents, nor the operations of the user base services.
    25 Sep 2012, 02:17 AM Reply Like
  • I agree there's a snowball's chance in hell of RIM going bankrupt but it looks like RIM will be relegated to being the niche player Windows Mobile once was (and still may continue to be).

    There is absolutely a market for the company's products (like, well, me) but that market is growing smaller as the competition grows its reach. By reach I don't mean user numbers, I mean that RIM is no longer competing with mobile phone companies and mobile device operating systems, but with entire ecosystems of products designed to interoperate with each seamlessly and efficiently.

    That's something I can't imagine RIM being able to compete with head to head. I think the strategy of making Android apps play nice with its Playbook was absolutely a good idea, and I fervantly believe RIM should make overtures to Google for increased interoperability for two reasons:

    One, RIM needs an ecosystem and hybriding onto Android makes some sense. And two, there's a lot of value in what RIM has, and Google could potentially use it to its benefit, much like MSFT is availing itself of NOK's value (Navteq for example, but its R&D more generally and its willingness to fill holes in MSFT's offering on its own initiative).
    25 Sep 2012, 02:08 PM Reply Like
  • The focus has been on sales growth, as expressed in market share figures. In an ecosystem world, the focus will shift towards user base. There are currently 80 million BlackBerry users. To put that in some perspective, that is a large user base than for Mac OS X, though obviously smaller than iOS.

    If RIMM cannot grow the user base much larger, then they need to downsize to increase profitability. We can see some of that happening with redundancy of employees. Prior to the hiring spree in 2010, there were 45 million BlackBerry users, and the company was profitable with that smaller workforce. Shareholders will want the company to increase profits and grow earnings, beginning next year after the launch of BB10 devices.
    25 Sep 2012, 02:17 PM Reply Like
  • > I agree there's a snowball's chance in hell of RIM going bankrupt

    My prediction for the record: $3/share sometime in 2013, bk in 2014.
    26 Sep 2012, 12:02 AM Reply Like
  • I hope you are not playing options at that price. If you are just throwing numbers around, why stop at 3.00? Anyone can pick a number out of their ass.

    Nokia and Motorola borrowed money for more than 8 quarters, yet neither went bankrupt. Perhaps you don't understand how bankruptcy actually functions for corporations.

    Absolutely RIMM could fail in this latest effort. I consider it a speculative play to buy shares. I also highly recommend people avoid the risk and tell people not to buy shares.
    26 Sep 2012, 12:09 AM Reply Like
  • $3 was my analysis of floor value based on patents. Which is all they'll have ultimately. I was fairly active in discussions on RIMM in threads 6 - 12 mos ago. A "for the record" comment is worth zero without taking the time to detail my thoughts, which I don't want to do at this time. I'm not interested enough to argue actually, but am interested enough to still read the threads occasionally.
    26 Sep 2012, 12:13 AM Reply Like
  • You could get 3.00 a share just based upon buildings, equipment and real estate. Prior to the Apple vs. Samsung legal battle, many people were placing RIMM patent value at zero. Obviously options open interest could push shares any direction, but there is a clear detachment from fundamentals in options plays. The most bearish of WallStreet analysts places a 4.50 price target for RIMM in 12 months, based upon liquidation value of the company.

    If you want to play options positions, or suggest strike prices for others, then 3.00 is quite dangerous. Even the 4.00 strike is high risk. You can see some of that factored into the prices for options. Anyway, feel free to come back in 6 to 12 months and tell everyone how brilliant your analysis was from now.
    26 Sep 2012, 12:20 AM Reply Like
  • > Anyway, feel free to come back in 6 to 12 months and tell everyone
    > how brilliant your analysis was from now.

    Hence my "for the record" comment. I'm not afraid to state it. Post your year end 2013 prediction.

    You're irascible here.
    26 Sep 2012, 12:25 AM Reply Like
  • I have never seen that word in English. Made me laugh when I saw the definition, though I'm not certain your use of it is correct. I'm not old, nor do I operate on emotions, which you can confirm with my ex-girlfriend who thinks I am too cold blooded.

    Anyway, I don't have a one year price target, because my time frame is just over three years on RIMM. Simply due to macro-economic issues, 2013 could be as bad as late 2008 and early 2009, which might place nearly every asset at an extremely depressed level. I expect the low of 2010 in RIMM to be seen in 2015/2016 time frame, which should be the overall growth peak in smartphones.

    P.S. - don't take my comments personally. I like to poke fun at people. ;)
    26 Sep 2012, 12:49 AM Reply Like
  • Always like your comments Herr, thx.
    26 Sep 2012, 01:41 AM Reply Like
  • Book value is around $16-18 Billion ...
    26 Sep 2012, 09:48 AM Reply Like
  • The point is not about "RIM being bad".It is, we knew it will and it will continue for some months until BB10 hits Joes and enterprises.

    Dynamic analysis cannot be settled on hypothesis. Even on facts (earnings call), the metrics are subjects to market forecasts ("is there a #3 or #4 viable position on the global market ?", "is there a (n additional) niche market in witch RIM can perform enough to make big money ?").
    These are perspective where "experts" and "analysts" have demonstrated their limits : they don't know, but still throw a penny and consider it can stand on its side, spreading the media with their views. In IT and telco's you can't predict the future: no one ever did in a 3-5 years perspective (see APPL, Oracle/Java, IBM, HP examples, and much more).

    RIM current move is innovative. The only thing we do care now is their ability to implement the plan and the capability to finance it.
    25 Sep 2012, 02:42 AM Reply Like
  • I'm suspicious of all the negative press from the pundits: why would they try to talk down the price, if they didn't hope to move in and make a killing?
    25 Sep 2012, 09:42 AM Reply Like
  • No need for a killing. It's been a slow suicide.
    25 Sep 2012, 02:54 PM Reply Like
Other date
DJIA (DIA) S&P 500 (SPY)