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Gold gets a downgrade at Goldman Sachs, the firm lowering its 2013 end-of-year price forecast to...

  • Wednesday, December 5, 2012, 8:59 AM ET
    Gold gets a downgrade at Goldman Sachs, the firm lowering its 2013 end-of-year price forecast to $1,800/oz., and 2014 to $1,750. "We see growing downside risks ... the gold outlook is caught between the opposing forces of more Fed easing and a gradual increase in U.S. real rates on better U.S. economic growth."
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This news story has 29 comments:

  • Master of the Muppets. LOL.

    "the gold outlook is caught between the opposing forces of more Fed easing and a gradual increase in U.S. real rates on better U.S. economic growth.""

    *160 million Americans are working: 107 million of them earn $45K per year and less. Only 7 million Americans out of the entire population earn $100K or more per year.

    *Closing in on 50 million Americans on food stamps. Number has not gone down one bit in 7 years and keeps rising.

    *Number of people on Social Security disability the highest ever and rising as millions on their last hope to keep from starving.

    The laughs just keep coming. Next we will hear about a reality TV show based on Mark Zandi's daily life as a government shill.
    5 Dec 2012, 09:06 AM Reply Like
  • This is as clear of a buy signal as it gets.
    5 Dec 2012, 09:14 AM Reply Like
  • That means they are buying.....
    5 Dec 2012, 09:19 AM Reply Like
  • This is the same outfit that has a Sell rating on NOK and is buying 60M shares of it.

    But we must all keep in mind that the folks at GS are "the best and brightest on Wall Street." At least that is what they keep telling anyone who will listen.
    5 Dec 2012, 09:20 AM Reply Like
  • Typical GS...downgrade so they can buy it cheaper later on
    5 Dec 2012, 09:36 AM Reply Like
  • What was the most recent GS's call on gold price at end of 2012?
    5 Dec 2012, 10:03 AM Reply Like
  • 2011-08-09 JP Morgan & Goldman Sachs gold price forecast


    Goldman Sachs: gold will hit $1,730 within 6 months and $1,900 in 12 months. (please note that gold hit $1,800 within days after this Goldman Sachs' forecast)
    5 Dec 2012, 10:07 AM Reply Like
  • This is the most recent I can find:

    2012-02-23 Goldman Sachs & Morgan Stanley gold price forecast for 2012 and 2013

    Goldman Sachs maintains its previous prediction of 2012 average gold price of $1,940 despite lowering its return forecast for the broader commodity complex from 15% to 12%.
    5 Dec 2012, 10:07 AM Reply Like
  • Yes, and it looks likely gold won't reach those targets, hence the downgrades. Many had targets of $2K before YE 2012. In my view $1800 is a reasonable average target for 2013.
    5 Dec 2012, 02:18 PM Reply Like
  • So GS is, in effect, calling for ZERO dollar inflation from now until the end of 2014.

    Right.
    5 Dec 2012, 10:16 AM Reply Like
  • dj,

    Smoke and mirrors to cover their bad calls.
    5 Dec 2012, 10:25 AM Reply Like
  • In our QE era gold and dollar have usually trended in opposite directions till recently
    5 Dec 2012, 11:06 AM Reply Like
  • They (CBs, Fed, WS) has to manipulate - there is no alternative if you want to avoid collapse. See my other comment.
    6 Dec 2012, 09:48 AM Reply Like
  • Silver also downgraded by Fitch to BBB- from AAA on massive long-term debt increase, high payroll costs and market share loss to its competitor: "Gold".
    5 Dec 2012, 11:13 AM Reply Like
  • In other news, the CFTC has ended their (latest) 4 year investigation in the manipulation of metals because there is not not one shred of evidence that can be found to support that claim. First Solar will also be mounting panels on the roof of the Congressional building to provide green power for their insertable vibrating devices.
    5 Dec 2012, 12:50 PM Reply Like
  • I've seen quite a few on SA claim sustained manipulation, but what I haven't seen is clear evidence. I'd like to see that.
    5 Dec 2012, 02:25 PM Reply Like
  • The number of contracts controlled by the commercial banks is posted on Harvey's Organ everyday. The GOTGOLDREPORT also details the manipulation w/actual contracts. GATA takes the lead from a legislative viewpoint....There are 000's more sites of a rah-rah nature trying to rally the opposition.
    5 Dec 2012, 03:32 PM Reply Like
  • So why doesn't GATA start buying gold contracts to compete with the holdings of commercial banks? Surely if they think gold is such a great buy they should do so - show demand conviction.

    What we are left with is a volatile futures market because of those holding disproportionally large positions amidst a rather thin market. In a sense they are trading against each other. Occasionally some of us out here can get in and ride a wave up/down on the swings.

    What I will say is that the gold futures options market (and other metals futures options) is broken, doesn't follow standard pricing models, and affects the underlying adversely.
    5 Dec 2012, 04:38 PM Reply Like
  • You need to go back over the last 10 years and look specifically at trading data on Tuesday's between the hours of 10 AM and Noon.

    There are a number of occasions when the gold and silver prices walk off a cliff losing 1-2% for no apparent reason starting precisely at 11AM.

    That is where the manipulation argument comes from.
    6 Dec 2012, 09:02 AM Reply Like
  • GATA is a volunteer organization dependent on donations to fight for the common good. To think they could do battle, via contracts, with 2 market maker banks and their trillion dollar balance sheets is absurd...especially when its just a paper game and the banks have the full backing and support of Bennie and the crooked CME. A few funds pressure the banks by dealing only in physical metals (Sprott, CEF) but even their billions in holdings are just a nuisance to JPM and HBSC.
    6 Dec 2012, 10:25 AM Reply Like
  • It appears they want panic selling for stocks and commodities . Hold your metals, keep investing in physical. The bubble has to burst, just nobody knows when, but when it does...
    6 Dec 2012, 12:27 AM Reply Like
  • It's precisely the existence of greedy, heartless, socially irresponsible corporations like Goldman Sachs, who's sole purpose for existence is to line the pockets of it's wealthy shareholders by extracting wealth from the economy without adding any value, that smart citizens around the globe buy gold. Besides, by issuing these kinds of bearish statements to influence the price of gold downwards, Goldman Sachs is probably making a calculated maneuver to acquire more bullion themselves at a discount. Ever thought about that?
    6 Dec 2012, 01:30 AM Reply Like
  • GS, Central Bankers and other Wall Streeters hates two things more than almost anything except a Justice inquiry: Emerging Markets and Gold. The developed world is slowly dying, they know it and need your capital to stay in US and European equities. This means they will ALWAYS find something bad to say about both. Europe is a mess, in recession and we are not far behind.

    Sadly, this is not an aberration but a longer term proposition due to the fat and happy welfare states they have created for the dumb as dirt slave to the state electorate. How they can ignore all the money printing and Gold safe haven impact with middle east unrest is beyond comprehension. And, then there is the massive middle class in Asia Central and SA that loves the metal. I think there are plenty of good reasons to buy more now while you can - equities aren't going anywhere. Top line sales for S&P has been going down EVERY year since 2008, a fact Wall Street conveniently ignores. They recently had a story on this critical stat as a "new worry"? New? It's only new because nobody on WS talks about it.

    http://on.wsj.com/TJDbO8
    6 Dec 2012, 08:23 AM Reply Like
  • I am a VIX specialist just starting to analyze commodities so I am asking this question to more knowledgeable people on SA. What would make gold prices fall, even plummet? I have read the arguments and logic as to why the view is predominantly bullish...

    I do see that GLD has fallen recently to a meaningful support level of around 162-163 and that implied volatility on the options has just started to creep up from a 2-year low.
    6 Dec 2012, 04:56 PM Reply Like
  • 3rd eye - If none of the things I said in my prior post is true, then Gold goes down.
    6 Dec 2012, 05:02 PM Reply Like
  • Tax selling related to the end of the year. This happens after Thanksgiving almost every year.
    7 Dec 2012, 11:01 AM Reply Like
  • I just Shorted gold today. When the fiscal cliff is fixed and it appears the economy is on the mend, then the dollar will soar. Kiss oil and gold good bye. That's my two cents worth. Sure I'm gonna get slammed by the gold bugs and right wingers!
    7 Dec 2012, 12:09 PM Reply Like
  • I'm also in agreement w/analysts bearish on oil. I believe record oil and gas production is a long-term boon for the US economy. I also believe gold has been a play on lack of confidence in central banks, govts, and failure of financial markets themselves.

    It'll be a slow process, but I believe the return of confidence is what will make gold prices fall. A stronger US economy (hence global economy led by lower energy prices and US energy production) would go a long way to restore confidence.

    That's my initial conclusion anyway, although admittedly I still in the learning phase...
    7 Dec 2012, 01:20 PM Reply Like
  • TEMA, Gold is getting attention because the financial system worldwide is doing it's death rattle. Sovereign debts and unfunded promises have grown to such proportions that it woud take politicians in every jurisdiction making hard decisions to cut funding and a populace willing to ride out the effects of them to regain control. The combined chances of that are zero. There may be temporary spikes of activity - like the current stock market surge - but they are just the convulsions as the one trick politicians and central bankers tax and print until the stormy end. Buy physical metals and sit tight.
    8 Dec 2012, 10:19 AM Reply Like
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